[General] Electron Size in a Collision

Fri Apr 10 23:50:10 PDT 2015

Dear All, 

Regarding the size of an electron and its properties under my interpretation of the double looped rotating photon model, I submit the following summary of some of those properties:-

Under this model, an electron at rest has a radius . It makes two rotations within its wavelength. Its electric charge is generated at its circumference and is essentially two dimensional in its plane of rotation when it is generated, spreading into the third dimension as the distance from the rotating photon's radius increases. Its magnetic field exists perpendicular to the rotating photon, giving it structure in the third dimension. Its mass is given by . This rotation at the indicated radius gives it angular momentum of , as was originally proposed in 1925. Subsequently quantum mechanics described the electron as a point particle, for which angular momentum had no meaning and defined spin as a quantum property of unknown origin with no classical equivalent. The photon can only rotate in two directions, clockwise or anti-clockwise, meaning there are only two spin states available. This is the origin of the so called quantised spin. There are no other possibilities. At rest it has no de Broglie wavelength. Its position cannot be measured accurately because it requires either another electron or a photon to target it. Once such targeting has occurred, the electron or photon will interact with it, either changing its position if it is a high energy particle, or poorly defining it if it is a low energy particle, e.g. a microwave, which can't measure its position with any great accuracy. This is the origin of the uncertainty principle. It is physically not possible to measure anything to greater accuracy. At rest, its third dimension is given by its magnetic field. 

It is suggested its electric charge is generated by the need to continually emit and absorb virtual photons to allow the photon to travel in its curved trajectory. The quantity of virtual photons emitted (and absorbed) depends upon its angular momentum. Because this is constant for all individual charged particles, the charge will always be the same, irrespective of the particle's mass. This is as observed. Its Bohr magneton magnetic moment is given by its electric charge multiplied by its radius. It is produce by a combination of the rotating charge generated by the emission and absorption of virtual photons (required for the photon to travel its curve trajectory) and the magnetic component of the electromagnetic field of the photon as it rotates. (The experimentally measured Bohr magnetons of the electron, proton and muon are very close to their charge times radius factor.) 

There may be something of which you have not thought about in the electron's spin of . It represents its whole mass, which is ≈ 0.055% of the proton's mass, travelling at the speed of light at a radius over two hundred times the proton's radius. That is one very strong gyroscope. This powerful gyroscopic effect means electrons will not always behave as would be expected of "normal" particles. Some of the "quantum" properties of electrons can be explained by this structure, without the need to introduce postulates such as Pauli's exclusion principle and orbits being quantised according to the de Broglie wave. They are automatic properties under this model.

In motion, the electron's rotating photon spirals through space. The electron can only travel along its axis of rotation, with one of its magnetic poles leading, the other trailing and the electric charge moving perpendicular to its direction of travel, at least close to the rotating photon. Its rotational radius diminishes according to ro/𝛾, where . In order for the photon to move, it must receive energy, which almost exclusively comes from the absorption of photons. This causes its mass to increase with velocity according to the relativistic correction of mo𝛾. Its spiralling motion slows down, causing the rotating photon to have a forward slip component. In travelling any distance the photon does not have to "spiral" or corkscrew the whole distance. This makes the distance it has travelled in its own time frame less, thus shortening the distance it experiences in its direction of travel. Its de Broglie wavelength is the component of its electromagnetic oscillation in the direction of its travel. 

In this model, its mass increases with its velocity according to the special relativity transformations, its charge remains constant, because its angular momentum is still , and its magnetic moment decreases because its radius decreases.  A positron is the same oscillation rotating in the opposite direction with respect to the polarity of the magnetic field, making it a mirror image of the electron. When the two particles come close they are attracted by their opposite charges. Their magnetic fields align their angular momenta in opposite directions, unlocking their respective spins, resulting in the two now linear photons travelling in opposite directions, conserving angular and linear momentum, charge and chirality. This is as observed experimentally. The energy contained in each photon is the mass of the particle multiplied by the speed of light squared, i.e., . 

If one wishes to define particles in four dimensional space-time terminology, it can be done using physical constants and the space-time properties of electric permittivity and magnetic permeability through the relationship . This gives 
 and 
. 
They depend upon the physical properties of space-time, this double looped photon model and the frequency of the photon. The other properties follow. 

Under this model, these properties are very specifically defined. I append a copy of the properties of the electron this model either matches or predicts, as previously published. Note that experiment is the only arbiter of a theory, and even then its worth is its ability to make testable predictions. I have seven predictions I believe represent properties that are unknown but could be measured at some time in the future using existing technologies. This discussion group is all about point 17, the electron is totally electromagnetic in nature. I am prepared to let this model stand or fall on experimental observations. The earlier suggested experiment to measure the radius of electrons at varying accelerating voltages (in the vicinity of a few hundred keV to a few MeV (rather than GeV) would either confirm or dispute this model. 

Further discussion on the merits or otherwise of models of the structure of photons and/or electrons should centre around the ability of a model to predict unknown properties that can be experimentally tested using existing technology. Experiment is the only arbiter of the accuracy or otherwise of any theoretical model. There are many other models of electrons about that can match some known electron properties. Yet another theory that can match known properties gives nothing to separate it from those theories. It is only when a model makes testable predictions of unknown properties, which are subsequently verified, that the model should be given precedence over other models. 

Cheers,

Vivian Robinson

On 10/04/2015, at 4:48 PM, John Macken <john at macken.com> wrote:

> Andrew,
>  
> I appreciate you enumerating the different definitions of electron radius.  However, I find all of the definitions as being “hollow” in the sense that one unknown (the electron structure) is defined using other unknowns such as the electron’s “electrostatic potential” or its “rest mass energy”.  While “rest mass” can be quantified; it does not imply any specific internal structure. I realize that these terms are all that are available to you, but I am proposing that it is possible to define the properties of an electron using the properties of spacetime. 
>  
> I am going to attempt to explain this concept with an example.  Suppose that one person is attempting to describe gravitational waves by waving their arms, drawing sine waves and talking vaguely about curved spacetime. Compare that to an explanation which starts with the impedance of spacetime and proceeds with a quantifiable description of wave amplitude, frequency, energy density, polarization of spacetime and quadrupole emission patterns.  The second case is more tangible because the explanation is given referencing a known fundamental medium – spacetime. 
>  
> The “foundation” paper starts by describing the quantum mechanical properties of the “spacetime field”.  Then it proceeds to show how particles, fields and forces are all just different manifestations of 4 dimensional spacetime field.  This is not arm waving. The impedance of spacetime is defined and the quantum mechanical properties of spacetime are examined.  This leads to predictions about the wave structure of spacetime and equations are developed for wave amplitude and properties.
>  
> This might seem far removed from the radius of an electron, but surprisingly this emerges.  The radius is found to be equal to the electron’s reduced Compton wavelength λc = ħ/mc ≈ 3.86x10‑13 m. Furthermore, this number is supported because it is central in all the calculations of the forces that an electron can produce.  Equations 12 to 23 in the “foundation” paper depend on the radius of the electron being equal to its reduced Compton wavelength λc. You will see that the magnitude of the electron’s gravitational force and electrostatic force are fundamentally tied to the electron’s mathematical radius being:  λc = ħ/mc ≈ 3.86x10‑13 m.  I encourage you to read the paper.
>  
> John M. 
>  
>  
>  
> From: General [mailto:general-bounces+john=macken.com at lists.natureoflightandparticles.org] On Behalf Of Andrew Meulenberg
> Sent: Thursday, April 09, 2015 8:33 PM
> To: Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion; Andrew Meulenberg
> Subject: Re: [General] Electron Size in a Collision
>  
> Dear John M.,
> 
> I haven't had time yet to read your works. I need to, before I comment on your story below. However, you have raised a topic that is generally ignored, or improperly treated - the size of an electron. Could you define what you mean by that? I use 3 possible definitions for different applications.
> QM says that the bound electron size is that of the probability distribution of its orbit (in terms of the Bohr radius). I accept this as a time average that is used in screening (and in other) calculations.
> Compton wavelength gives a radius (~ 386 fm?) that I assume includes ~99% of its electrostatic potential in free space. This is important in looking at the EM (and in other?) interactions. This does not include the AC EM potential added by relativistic motion.
> Classical radius (~2.8fm) gives the energy density distribution (i.e., ~99% of its rest mass energy is within this radius?). This is critical in nuclear interactions involving electrons (and perhaps in the anomalous solution of the Dirac equations).
> Could you counter, or comment on, these definitions? They have a major impact on the discussion of the photonic-electron concept. If you have already covered this topic in one of your papers, could you 'point' it out to us.
> 
> Thx,
> 
> Andrew
> ________________________________
> 
> On Thu, Apr 9, 2015 at 10:41 PM, John Macken <john at macken.com> wrote:
> Vivian and All,
>  
> We all agree that collision experiments indicate that the size of an electron is smaller than the resolution of the collision experiment.  Since some experiments have been done at about 50 GeV, this means that the electron appears to be smaller than about 10-18 m. We have different models of an electron and they have different explanations for how an electron can appear to be a point particle.  In a previous post you say, “I prefer the answers given by John W, Richard G, myself and others that the radius of an electron decreases with its energy, giving it a point like property as it travels at sufficiently high velocity.”  I will address this point.  You seem to be saying that a fundamental particlechanges its radius in X, Y and Z dimensions as it propagates.  As I recall, the radius decreases with 1/γ in one model and 1/γ2 in another model.  Also as I recall the decrease in radius is accompanied by an increase in the electron’s Compton frequency in some models.  Perhaps I do not understand this concept correctly, but the change in radius and frequency appears to violate the covariance of physical laws.  All frames of reference should have the same physical laws.  Here is the problem.  In order for the laws of physics to be the same in all frames of reference, Lorentz transformations have to hold between different frames of reference. The changes you propose do not correspond to Lorentz transformations. 
> Suppose that we designate the Z axis as the direction of propagation between two frames of reference. Then the expectation is that an observer in frame A would perceive that an electron in frame B retains its original radius in the X and Y dimensions while the Z axis dimension decreases by r = ro/γ.  Also, the rate of time in frame B appears to slows down by 1/γ as seen from frame A.  The Compton frequency can be considered a clock beat.  Therefore the observer in frame A should perceive that the electron’s Compton frequency in frame B has slowed down rather than speed up.  If the changes you propose take place, then an observer in frame B would perceive that an electron has different properties than the properties observed in frame A.  This would be a violation of the basic assumption of invariance in spacial relativity.
> Perhaps, the most important point is that the changes that you propose do not even achieve the goal of making the electron appear to be a point particle in a collision.  Here is the reasoning.  Suppose that we have two electrons accelerated to 50 GeV and propagating in opposite directions in an accelerator.  I am in the acceleration frame of reference and the electrons will collide in front of me.  If the collision is head-on, both electrons momentarily are stopped in my frame of reference at the moment of closest approach.  Therefore at that moment neither electron is moving relative to me.  They might have been small when they were moving, but when they have stopped in the collision, in your model they should have their original radius equal which you believe to be ½ the reduced Compton wavelength.  Since the scattering is taking place in my frame of reference, the scattering should indicate this full size.
> Contrast that to my model.  I say that the electron appears to be the same size and have the same Compton frequency when viewed as a “stationary” electron in any frame of reference.  This means that Lorentz transformations hold between frames. An electron in frame B retains the same radius in the X and Y dimensions but appears to shrink in the Z direction.  Also the Compton frequency appears slower when observed from frame A. 
> However, the important point is not the size during propagation, but the size during collision.  In my model, the size of each electron physically decreases when the two electrons collide and momentarily are stopped in my frame of reference.  The kinetic energy carried by each electron has been converted to the internal energy of the waves that make up the two electrons.  At the moment of collision, the wave amplitude increases and wave frequency increases.  The Compton wavelength decreases, therefore the radius decreases when the colliding electrons are momentarily stopped.  If the collision is at 50 GeV then γ = 100,000 and the radius decreases by this factor.  The calculations are done in the “foundation” paper, in section 4.5, titled Point Particle Test. This section of the paper concludes that the reason that electrons appear to be point particles is that “It is a classic case of the experiment distorting the property being measured and invalidating the measurement”.
> I also have other arguments supporting my electron size and characteristics, but this is enough for one post.
>  
> John M.
> 
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