[General] Electron Torus
Chip Akins
chipakins at gmail.com
Fri May 22 06:13:07 PDT 2015
Hi Richard
One interesting thing about blue shift (Doppler) and relativistic length
contraction, is that they do not give anywhere near the same results.
Frequency shift is:
So of course wavelength is:
Length Contraction
Chip
From: General
[mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com at lists.natureoflightandparticles.
org] On Behalf Of Richard Gauthier
Sent: Friday, May 22, 2015 7:31 AM
To: Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion
Subject: Re: [General] Electron Torus
John D., Chip and Andrew,
Isn’t it the case that in standard physics (experimentally confirmed) the
measured spin of an electron is relative to the motion of the observer of
the electron, just as the observed momentum of an electron is relative to
the motion of the observer of the electron? If an observer moving west to
east with a relativistic velocity v1 passes a “stationary” electron (in
some reference frame) , the electron has an observed momentum (when it
measured) going west, and a spin either up or down (when it is measured) in
the east-west direction and a de Broglie wavelength corresponding to the
relative velocity v1, while when an observer moving relativistically south
to north with velocity v2 passes a “stationary" electron , the electron has
an observed momentum (when it is measured) going south, a spin that is up or
down (when it is measured) in the north-south direction, and a de Broglie
wavelength corresponding to its relative velocity v2. (In QM, velocity,
spin and de Broglie wavelength probably can’t all be measured at the same
time).
The relativistic energy-momentum equation for the electron E^2 = p^2 c^2 +
m^2 c^4 applies to the electron described above when observed by two
observers with two different relativistic velocities compared to the
electron. I showed in my article “the electron is a charged photon with the
de Broglie wavelength” that the same relativistic energy-momentum equation
applies to a helically moving double-looping photon that may compose an
electron, where E is the energy of the photon (the same as the total energy
of the electron composed by the photon), p is the longitudinal momentum of
the helically moving photon (the same as the momentum p of the electron
being modeled), E/c is the total momentum of the photon along its helical
path, and mc is the transverse momentum of the helically moving photon,
which contributes to the electron’s spin up or spin down value hbar/2 in the
case of a slow moving electron (modeled by the double-looping photon). So
every electron observed to have a momentum p will in this view also have a
spin hbar/2 up or down in the direction of its momentum.
Also, when a photon is Doppler shifted-due to relative motion of the light
source away from or towards the observer, the observed wavelength of the
photon is lengthened or shortened accordingly. Doesn’t this imply that the
length of the whole photon (if it consists of a certain number of
wavelengths) is also lengthened or shortened accordingly?
Richard
On May 22, 2015, at 12:06 AM, John Duffield <johnduffield at btconnect.com
<mailto:johnduffield at btconnect.com> > wrote:
David:
Why don’t photons get length contracted? Because they’re just waves in space
moving at the speed of waves in space. A ripple in a rubber mat doesn’t get
length contracted, nor do waves in space. Then when you make those waves go
round and round, they still don’t get length-contracted. Then when you move
past them fast, they still don’t get length contracted. You might say the
path of those waves is different, but it isn’t, they didn’t change, you did.
And if you boil yourself down to a single electron, and boil that down to a
ring, then draw circles and helixes, I think it gets to the bottom of
things.
Chip:
Yes, I’m certain relative velocity is a determining factor. But note that
“we” are made of electrons and things, so IMHO it’s best to start with two
particles, such as the electron and the positron. If you set them down with
no initial relative motion they move linearly together, and we talk of
electric force.
<image005.jpg>
However if you threw the postiron over the top of the electron they’d move
together and go around one another, whereupon we talk of magnetic force.
Note that this is relative velocity, not relativistic velocity. I’ve seen
people
<http://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/65335/how-do-moving-charges-prod
uce-magnetic-fields> explain the magnetic field around the
current-in-the-wire using length contraction, but IMHO that’s a fairy tale,
and I prefer a
<http://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/184055/atomic-explanation-of-mag
netic-field/184079?noredirect=1#comment388570_184079> “screw” answer.
Regards
John D
From: General [
<mailto:general-bounces+johnduffield=btconnect.com at lists.natureoflightandpar
ticles.org>
mailto:general-bounces+johnduffield=btconnect.com at lists.natureoflightandpart
icles.org] On Behalf Of Chip Akins
Sent: 21 May 2015 21:39
To: 'Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion'
Subject: Re: [General] Electron Torus
Hi John D
Regarding
Sorry, I don’t think that can be right because you could go past an electron
at .9988c.
Yes, I am coming to think that maybe the spiral fields caused by limited
field propagation velocity, might play a larger role than I had first
considered.
I think Martin was onto this aspect already.
Wondering if relative velocity is a factor in determining what portion of
the spiral field we detect or interact with? And if so, how that might work.
<image006.png>
The earlier electron model graphics are created from the math that Richard
developed for his spin ½ electron.
Chip
From: General [
<mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com at lists.natureoflightandparticles.
org>
mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com at lists.natureoflightandparticles.o
rg] On Behalf Of John Duffield
Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2015 3:15 PM
To: 'Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion'
Subject: Re: [General] Electron Torus
Chip:
Sorry, I don’t think that can be right because you could go past an electron
at .9988c.
Andrew:
Photons don’t get length contracted, and electrons are made out of photons
in pair production. If you simplify the electron to a photon going round in
a circle, then take one point on the circumference, you would say it
describes a circular path. But when you move past the electron fast, you
would say that point was describing a helical path. Then when you consider
all points of the circumference, you might say the electron was a cylinder
rather than a circle. And if you were that electron, everything to you would
look length-contracted, because you’re smeared out. If I was a motionless
electron you’d say I was length contracted. But I might say I was the one
moving, and that you’re length-contracted.
Regards
John
From: General [
<mailto:general-bounces+johnduffield=btconnect.com at lists.natureoflightandpar
ticles.org>
mailto:general-bounces+johnduffield=btconnect.com at lists.natureoflightandpart
icles.org] On Behalf Of Chip Akins
Sent: 21 May 2015 17:52
To: 'Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion'
Subject: Re: [General] Electron Torus
Hi Andrew
Images from the electron’s reference frame.
For Richard’s model using the spin 1 photon, and drawing in the electron’s
reference frame, his math produces the following image for a set of nested
electron models with velocities up to 0.9988c.
<image007.png>
The small grey sphere in the center is the electron model for 0.9988c.
So in this model the electron shrinks in all directions, but remains
principally spherical when viewed from the electron’s reference frame.
Chip
From: General [
<mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com at lists.natureoflightandparticles.
org>
mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com at lists.natureoflightandparticles.o
rg] On Behalf Of Andrew Meulenberg
Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2015 11:15 AM
To: Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion; Andrew Meulenberg
Subject: Re: [General] Electron Torus
Dear Chip,
I learn something new every time. However, it may not be true.
If I interpret your images properly, the fastest electrons are the longest.
However, relativistic shortening should shrink the length. I had expected
the electron to 'pancake' in the direction of motion. You show the opposite.
Is the pancake only in the electron's frame and the appearance from our
frame is one of an extended structure? If both, do they cancel and, in
reality, it is still spherical?
Andrew
On Thu, May 21, 2015 at 7:36 PM, Chip Akins < <mailto:chipakins at gmail.com>
chipakins at gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Richard
So it is a bit more difficult to visualize exactly what is going on from the
graphics with velocity.
We increase the velocity is in steps from zero through 0.9988c.
>From the Z axis the illustration looks like:
<image008.jpg>
Showing the reduced radius with velocity.
But when we look at the model slightly off axis (Z axis) we see this:
<image009.jpg>
So this is a set of nested electron models with different velocities, each
starting from the same point (upper right of the illustration). These are
drawn from an external observers frame and are not shown in the electron’s
reference frame.
In the electron’s reference frame we would see closure to the trajectory,
but in this reference frame, the trajectory (since it is moving) is not
closed.
Chip
From: General [mailto: <mailto:general-bounces%2Bchipakins>
general-bounces+chipakins=
<mailto:gmail.com at lists.natureoflightandparticles.org>
gmail.com at lists.natureoflightandparticles.org] On Behalf Of Richard Gauthier
Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2015 6:29 AM
To: Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion
Subject: Re: [General] Electron Torus
Chip,
Please correct a couple of typos in my last email. The TEQ (transluminal
energy quantum) moves on the surface of a torus, not a helix. Also the first
helical radius mentioned should have been Ro sqrt(2) = 1.414 Ro , not Ro
sqrt(2)/2 = 1.414 Ro since sort(2)/2 = 0.707 not 1.414 . Thanks.
Richard
On May 20, 2015, at 6:42 PM, Richard Gauthier <
<mailto:richgauthier at gmail.com> richgauthier at gmail.com> wrote:
Chip,
Nice graphics!
Shouldn’t the electric field lines of an electron at some distance from
the electron model be pointing inward linearly towards the electron from
infinity on all sides, since the electron's electric field (due to its
electric charge) falls off as 1/r^2 . I don’t understand why the electric
field lines appear closed in your diagrams.
In my original resting electron model the TEQ was a circulating negative
electric charge which circulated on the surface of a helix. I called the
circulating TEQ a photon-like object since it was similar to my TEQ model of
a photon. I was assuming at that time that the photon in my resting
electron model had spin 1, even though I had adjusted the helical radius so
that the circulating TEQ generated the magnetic moment of the electron of 1
Bohr magneton, requiring a helical radius for the TEQ of Ro sqrt(2)/2 =
1.414 Ro which created the spindle torus in my model . So this was actually
neither a spin 1 photon (whose radius for a resting electron would have been
2Ro, or a spin 1/2 photon, whose radius for a resting electron would be Ro,
as in the 3D models that you and I generated from the moving electron
equations I proposed. Since I currently prefer the model of an electron
composed of a spin 1/2 circulating photon, this doesn’t generate the
electron’s magnetic moment of 1 Bohr magneton. But it generates a magnetic
moment more than 1/2 Bohr magneton which would be produced by a charge
circulating at light speed in a simple double loop of radius Ro. I haven’t
done the calculation for the magnetic moment generated by my spin 1/2 photon
model of the electron, but I suspect that it would be 0.707 Bohr magneton
(just a guess at this point). The calculation of this magnetic moment from
the TEQ trajectory equations for a charged TEQ in the spin 1/2 photon model
is relatively straightforward though.
By the way, have you looked at the side view of the actual TEQ
trajectory at various values of v/c of the electron in the spin 1/2 photon
moving-electron model that I proposed (and that you programmed and graphed
in 3D to show how the model size changes as 1/gamma at various values of
v/c)? The side view of the TEQ trajectory for a moving electron contains
some surprises, at least for me. I thought that at high values of v/c (say
0.99 or 0.999) the TEQ would just appear from the side view to rotate
helically around its reducing and increasingly more linear helical
trajectory (whose trajectory reduces as 1/(gamma^2), with the TEQ’s helical
radius reducing as 1/gamma. But that’s apparently not what happens. Could
you check this with your 3D program?
Richard
On May 19, 2015, at 8:45 AM, Chip Akins < <mailto:chipakins at gmail.com>
chipakins at gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Richard
If your spin 1 photon model of the electron is similar to John W and
Martin’s model in that the field lines always orient with the negative end
outwards (providing for charge) the estimated field distribution is similar
to this illustration. (Equatorial View)
<image001.jpg>
(Top View from Z axis)
<image002.jpg>
(45 degree elevation view)
<image004.jpg>
Red lines represent negative ends of field lines, Blue lines represent
positive, black is the transport radius, faint green line is one circulation
at the transport radius.
Photon field amplitude is shown as a cosine function of wavelength/2.
Chip
From: General [
<mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com at lists.natureoflightandparticles.
org>
mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com at lists.natureoflightandparticles.o
rg] On Behalf Of Richard Gauthier
Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2015 10:06 AM
To: Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion
Subject: Re: [General] Electron Torus
Chip,
Perfect! It would also be good to have the pair of tori seen an an angle
from above their ‘equator’ to get a more 3-D quality.
Richard
On May 5, 2015, at 6:07 AM, Chip Akins < <mailto:chipakins at gmail.com>
chipakins at gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Richard
How do these look?
<image003.png>
<image001.jpg>
Chip
From: General [
<mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com at lists.natureoflightandparticles.
org>
mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com at lists.natureoflightandparticles.o
rg] On Behalf Of Richard Gauthier
Sent: Monday, May 04, 2015 1:18 PM
To: Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion
Subject: Re: [General] Electron Torus
Hi Chip,
The radius of the circle in the horn torus (spin 1/2 photon model) should
visually be (since it is actually) 1/2 of the radius of the circle in the
spindle torus (spin 1 photon model) -- the spin 1/2 photon model is smaller
than the spin 1 photon model. Thanks! And could you perhaps show the energy
quantum trajectory in a different color that the torus background so the
trajectory stands out better?
Richard
On Mon, May 4, 2015 at 10:42 AM, Chip Akins < <mailto:chipakins at gmail.com>
chipakins at gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Richard
<image004.png>
<image005.png>
Chip
From: General [mailto: <mailto:general-bounces%2Bchipakins>
general-bounces+chipakins=
<mailto:gmail.com at lists.natureoflightandparticles.org>
gmail.com at lists.natureoflightandparticles.org] On Behalf Of Richard Gauthier
Sent: Monday, May 04, 2015 12:19 PM
To: Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion
Subject: Re: [General] Electron Torus
Hi Chip,
Thanks. And finally, the vertical ovals of the tori should be circles
because the circulating quantum has the same radius in the vertical and
horizontal directions.
Richard
On May 4, 2015, at 9:32 AM, Chip Akins < <mailto:chipakins at gmail.com>
chipakins at gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Richard
Thank you.
Here you go:
<image001.png>
<image002.png>
Chip
From: General [
<mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com at lists.natureoflightandparticles.
org>
mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com at lists.natureoflightandparticles.o
rg] On Behalf Of Richard Gauthier
Sent: Monday, May 04, 2015 10:43 AM
To: Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion
Subject: Re: [General] Electron Torus
Hi Chip,
Both tori should be symmetrical above and below the z-axis and center on
z=0.
Richard
On May 4, 2015, at 8:16 AM, Chip Akins < <mailto:chipakins at gmail.com>
chipakins at gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Richard
<image001.jpg>
Viewed from the Z axis:
<image002.jpg>
And from the equatorial plane:
<image003.jpg>
Chip
From: General [
<mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com at lists.natureoflightandparticles.
org>
mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com at lists.natureoflightandparticles.o
rg] On Behalf Of Richard Gauthier
Sent: Sunday, May 03, 2015 11:07 PM
To: Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion
Subject: Re: [General] position
Chip and all,
Here are some equations that relate to the modeling of a circulating
photon as an electron. The second and third set include my own model of the
photon. The first set doesn’t require a particular model for the photon,
except as mentioned below. The first model is the one that generates the de
Broglie wavelength as explained in my article mentioned below.
1. Here is the set of parametric equations for the helical trajectory of
double-looping photon that models a free electron, and whose circular
radius for a resting electron is Ro=hbar/2mc. The speed of the photon along
this trajectory is always c. The longitudinal or z-component of the photon’s
speed is the electron’s velocity v along the z-axis. The frequency of the
photon around the helical axis is proportional to the circulating
photon/electron's energy E=gamma mc^2. The distance of the photon’s helical
trajectory from the z-axis for an electron whose speed is v, is proportional
to 1/gamma^2. This equation is in my article “The electron is a charged
photon with the de Broglie wavelength”. This equation does not include a
particular model of the photon, but assumes that the photon follows the
relations c=f lambda, E=hf and p=h/lambda. Both helicities of the helical
trajectory are given.
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