[General] de Broglie Waves from Chapter 1

Fri May 29 00:06:53 PDT 2015

One has to understand the MECHANISM - the underlying reason for the very
different behaviour of fermions and bosons. 

Two waves can ride over one another and displace each other’s path, but
two whirlpools cannot overlap. And counter-rotating vortices move together
whilst contra-rotating vortices move apart. 

From: General [mailto:general-
bounces+johnduffield=btconnect.com at lists.natureoflightandparticles.org] On
Behalf Of John Williamson
Sent: 29 May 2015 05:17
To: David Mathes; Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion
Subject: Re: [General] de Broglie Waves from Chapter 1

Dear all,

Before anyone runs off with any wrong impressions here, the de Broglie
derivation is not, in any way, dependent on there being an enormous
underlying mass and energy density in space and time, but merely on a
proper consideration of the properties of special relativity. This is, I
think, what Richard may have meant when he asked the question.

The de original Broglie derivation (in the thesis link I circulated
earlier) used only the properties of the relativistic transformation of
frequency (in energy) and of time.  This was derived in the twenties. The
derivations mentioned in the chapter 1 of John M's book are nice, have some
beautiful pictures and are correct as far as I can see, but they are
nothing new (as he says himself) in general and nothing to do, in
particular, with a speculative hyper-energy background to space and time.

Further, it is not so that the double-loop model precludes a proper
derivation of this relation. It is (trivially) so that if you start by
(wrongly) putting a factor of two in in the initial calculation you will
get a factor of two out. Surprise! The double looping comes from the
topology of the folding of the inherent twist of light with its turn in
confinement. There are then two frequencies simultaneously, an octave
apart. The base frequency is still that of light-in-a-box. 

All relativistic models - including notably the Dirac model developed in
the thirties - properly account for the de Broglie wavelength as being due
to these (merely relativistic) transformations. This is also discussed, for
example, in Martin and my 1997 paper.  Martin had derived this, again
independently, from the properties of the (double looped) photon back in
1991. 

Further, the double-looping is required to PROPERLY account for the
difference between fermions and bosons. Fermions, as is well known, must
have an internal 720 degree rotation before returning to their starting
configuration.  This is what a spinor is. Look it up. Wikipedia is a good
place to start. Simple 360 degree models have a long history (going back to
Lord Kelvin at Glasgow) but have not yet proven consistent with experiment. 

Further, there has been a lot of focus on calculating a VALUE for hbar.
This is a red herring. It is not normal behaviour that something half as
big behaves completely differently. Small humans do not have an exclusion
principle that humans twice as large lack. Merely finding a value is not
the point. One has to understand the MECHANISM - the underlying reason for
the very different behaviour of fermions and bosons. 

Regards, John W.

  _____  

From: General [general-
bounces+john.williamson=glasgow.ac.uk at lists.natureoflightandparticles.org]
on behalf of David Mathes [davidmathes8 at yahoo.com]
Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2015 6:19 PM
To: Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion
Subject: Re: [General] de Broglie Waves from Chapter 1

John

I am...speechless.

David

  _____  

From: John Macken <john at macken.com <mailto:john at macken.com> >
To: Nature of Light and Particles
<general at lists.natureoflightandparticles.org
<mailto:general at lists.natureoflightandparticles.org> > 
Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2015 10:14 AM
Subject: [General] de Broglie Waves from Chapter 1

Richard asked a question that jarred me a little bit.  The question was,
“Is there a quantitative fit to the de Broglie wavelength equation, and if
so, why?”  The reason that I said that it jarred me is that I had been
proceeding under the assumption that this group understood all the
information about how de Broglie waves are connected to light waves.  While
I independently developed all the information in chapter 1 of my book, I
have subsequently found other references which cover the connection between
counter-propagating light waves and de Broglie waves.  In fact, I
discovered that de Broglie himself made this point.  The illustrations and
the appendix analysis  contained in chapter 1 of my book go beyond what
others have done. I suggest that you read this information before you will
be able to understand my other simulations. 

The importance of the concepts in chapter 1 of my book cannot be overstated
for any physicist that is attempting to understand the structure of an
electron.  Figure 1-1 on page 1-5 of the attached “Chapter 1.pdf”
illustrates several important points.

1)     Counter propagating light waves in a moving frame of reference
perfectly simulate both de Broglie waves and special relativity effects.
In figure 1 the high frequency waves are the light waves while the envelope
modulation waves are the equivalent of de Broglie waves.  These de Broglie
waves have the correct wavelength, the correct phase velocity and the
correct group velocity.  The wave pattern also exhibits the correct
relativistic length contraction.  These points are made in the text of the
chapter and rigorously proven in the attached appendix.  (The mathematical
analysis in the appendix was done by Chris Ray of St. Mary’s College.)

2)     As illustrated in figure 1-1, one complete de Broglie wavelength
includes two of the lobe/null combinations.  A null occurs when the counter
propagating waves are 180 degrees out of phase.  The oscillations of the
light wave lobes also undergo a 180 degree phase shift between adjacent
lobes.  This phase shift is hard to see in figure 1-1, but it is easier to
see in figure 1-4.  If you follow one color through the dark zone, it
becomes the opposite color on the other side of the dark zone.  This
indicates the 180 degree phase shift.  The point is that it takes two of
these lobes to complete one de Broglie wavelength. This point is included
in figure 1-1. 

3)     The counter propagating wave analysis also generates the correct
relativistic time dilation if you analyze the frequency of oscillation of
the combined light waves. (appendix)

4)     The counter propagating wave analysis also generates the correct
kinetic energy and the correct relativistic corrections to kinetic energy.
(appendix)

5)     One point that I have not made before in the discussion of single
loop versus double loop models is that the correct de Broglie waves are
only generated if the electron disturbs the surrounding volume at the
electron’s Compton angular frequency ωc = mc2/ħ = c/λc  which implies a
reduced wavelength of:  λc = ħ/mc = c/ωc  In other words, a model of an
electron that assumes twice the Compton frequency will not generate the
correct de Broglie waves if the counter propagating mechanism is assumed.

6)     My particle model had as a requirement that it must be capable of
generating the correct de Broglie waves, the correct kinetic energy and the
correct relativistic effects.  All of this is accomplished by the model
chosen since it includes counter propagating waves at the Compton
frequency/wavelength in the “external volume” of the electron. 

While others in the group are speculating about knots, swirls and spikes, I
am running simulations which are generating real testable results.  I am
generating gravity and electric fields.  I am finding previously unknown
connections between the gravitational force and the electrostatic force.  I
am giving a physical description of the distortion of spacetime caused by a
charged particle.  I welcome a debate about whether an electron is a
confined photon or oscillations of the vacuum.    

John M.  

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