[General] De Broglie Wave

Fri Feb 5 21:31:13 PST 2016

Dear Al et al,

The Maxwell equations describe electro-magnetic waves. Both electric and magnetic fields can be measured. Are you really serious that you think they are a "fiction"?

Cheers, John.
________________________________
From: General [general-bounces+john.williamson=glasgow.ac.uk at lists.natureoflightandparticles.org] on behalf of af.kracklauer at web.de [af.kracklauer at web.de]
Sent: Saturday, February 06, 2016 2:15 AM
To: phys at a-giese.de
Cc: general at lists.natureoflightandparticles.org
Subject: Re: [General] De Broglie Wave

Hi Albrecht:

DeBroglie's verbage is indeed quite rococo!  Nonetheless, his machinations, although verbalized, in the true tradtion of quantum mechanics, mysteriously, can be reinterpreted (i.e., alternate verbage found without changing any of the math) so as to tell a fully, if (somewhat) hetrodoxical, story.  See #11 on www.Nonloco-Physics.0catch.com.

cc:  Waves are never a characteristic of a single, point-like entity, but colletive motion of a medium.  IF they exist at all.  My view is that E&M waves are a fiction wrought by Fourier analysis.  The only real physical part is an "interaction", which mnight as well be thought of an absract string between charges.  Also, neutrons have electric multipole moments; i.e., they are totally neutral but not charge-free.

Best,  Al

Gesendet: Freitag, 05. Februar 2016 um 21:43 Uhr
Von: "Albrecht Giese" <genmail at a-giese.de>
An: af.kracklauer at web.de, general at lists.natureoflightandparticles.org
Cc: "Richard Gauthier" <richgauthier at gmail.com>
Betreff: Re: [General] De Broglie Wave
Hi Al,

true, in the frame of the particle the dB wavelength is infinite. Because in its own frame the momentum of the particle is 0. The particle oscillates with the frequency of the particle's Zitterbewegung (which background fields do you have in mind? De Brogie does not mention them). This oscillation is in no contradiction with this wavelength as the phase speed is also infinite. For the imagination, the latter means that all points of that wave oscillate with the same phase at any point.

Which  background waves do you have in mind? What is the CNONOICAL momentum? And what about E&M interactions? De Broglie has not related his wave to a specific field. An E&M field would anyway have no effect in the case of neutron scattering for which the same de Broglie formalism is used. And into which frame do you see the wave Lorentz-transformed?

So, an electron in his frame has an infinite wavelength and in his frame has the double slit moving towards the particle. How can an interference at the slits occur? No interference can happen under these conditions. But, as I have explained in the paper, the normal wave which accompanies the electron by normal rules (i.e. phase speed = c) will have an interference with its own reflection, which has then a wavelength which fits to the expectation of de Broglie. But that is a very local event (in a range of approx. 10^-12 m for the electron) and it is not at all a property of the electron as de Broglie has thought.

To say it again: The de Broglie wavelength cannot be a steady property of the particle. But Schrödinger and Dirac have incorporated it into their QM equations with this understanding.

If I should have misunderstood you, please show the mathematical calculations which you mean.

Ciao, Albrecht

Am 05.02.2016 um 19:20 schrieb af.kracklauer at web.de<UrlBlockedError.aspx>:
Hi: Albrecht:

Your arguments don't resonate with me.  The deB' wave length is infinite in the particles frame: it is the standing wave formed by the inpinging background waves having a freq. = the particle's Zitterbewegung.  If these TWO waves are each Lorentz x-formed to another frame and added there, they exhibit exactly the DeB' modulation wavelength proportional to the particle's momentum.  The only mysterious feature then is that the proportionality is to the CNONICAL momentum, i.e., including the vector potential of whatever exterior E&M interactions are in-coming.  Nevertheless, everything works our without contradiction.  A particle oscillates in place at its Zitter freq. while the Zitter signals are modulated by the DeB' wavelength as they move through slits, say.

ciao,  L

Gesendet: Freitag, 05. Februar 2016 um 12:28 Uhr
Von: "Albrecht Giese" <genmail at a-giese.de><UrlBlockedError.aspx>
An: "Richard Gauthier" <richgauthier at gmail.com><UrlBlockedError.aspx>, general at lists.natureoflightandparticles.org<UrlBlockedError.aspx>
Betreff: Re: [General] De Broglie Wave
Hi Richard and Al, hi All,

recently we had a discussion here about two topics:

1. The functionality of the de Broglie wave, particularly its wavelength
if seen from a different inertial system. Such cases lead to illogical
situations.
2. The problem of the apparent asymmetry at relativistic dilation.

I have investigated these cases and found that they are in some way
connected. Relativistic dilation is not as simple as it is normally
taken. It looks asymmetric if it is incorrectly treated. An asymmetry
would falsify Special Relativity. But it is in fact symmetrical if
properly handled and understood.

It is funny that both problems are connected to each other through the
fact that de Broglie himself has misinterpreted dilation. From this
incorrect understanding he did not find another way out than to invent
his "theorem of phase harmony"; with all logical conflicts resulting
from this approach.

If relativity is properly understood, the problem seen by de Broglie
does not exist. Equations regarding matter waves can be derived which
work properly, i.e. conform to the experiments but avoid the logical
conflicts.

As announced, I have composed a paper about this. It can be found at:

https://www.academia.edu/21564534/The_Conflict_with_the_De_Broglie_Wavelength<redir.aspx?REF=kR6bsbhFDaZ4bqUuzihfBuVe8wnk1Uu5cJ9oe7ZtYyOpebzxtS7TCAFodHRwczovL3d3dy5hY2FkZW1pYS5lZHUvMjE1NjQ1MzQvVGhlX0NvbmZsaWN0X3dpdGhfdGhlX0RlX0Jyb2dsaWVfV2F2ZWxlbmd0aA..>
.

I thank Richard Gauthier for the discussion which we had about this
topic. It caused me to investigate the problem and to find a solution.

Albrecht

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