[General] Role of observer, a deeper path to introspection

Wolfgang Baer wolf at nascentinc.com
Wed Aug 16 23:15:45 PDT 2017


Bell is  right, so is Albrecht

but the preferred reference frame is your own- its so obvious - you see 
empty space as another observable made up inside your greater self you 
are in the center of your own space , eastern philosophers have said 
this for years , centuries

The only real challenge is to build an engineering level theory that 
incorporates a proper accounting of our own and final measuring 
instrument, the self deception is called Maya , the average consensus 
reality Man simply lives under and cannnot see alternative explanations 
that are simpler and more encompassing.

I have the lead article in the Aug Issue of the Journal of Consciousness 
Studies , most prodigious Journal on the topic. " Rose tinted Glasses 
Effect" discusses exactly the problem sir a. Eddington warned us about - 
the more we dig into nature the more we find the construction rules of 
our own processes of investigation.


Dr. Wolfgang Baer
Research Director
Nascent Systems Inc.
tel/fax 831-659-3120/0432
E-mail wolf at NascentInc.com

On 8/16/2017 12:30 PM, Albrecht Giese wrote:
>
> Dear Chip:
>
> my remarks in your text below.
>
>
> Am 14.08.2017 um 17:05 schrieb Chip Akins:
>>
>> Dear Albrecht
>>
>> This is such an interesting discussion. Thank you for explaining your 
>> views in a compelling manner, and for supporting your views with 
>> logical arguments.
>>
>> We grope around, kind of in the dark, looking for logic and reason, 
>> so we can make sense of the amazing puzzle of the universe.
>>
>> In that quest, let me share with you some of the thoughts I have had, 
>> some of the reasoning behind my view of these puzzles.
>>
>> To begin, the concept that particles are made of energy is very 
>> interesting to me.
>>
> Short interrupt: How is energy defined? -> Energy is the ability to do 
> work. So, if there is energy somewhere, there must be a mechanism to 
> transfer this energy to some object to give this object energy. Now my 
> question: how can energy exist by itself as an abstract phenomenon so 
> that some object can pick up this energy? There should be a mechanism, 
> and with your position you should describe this mechanism.
>
> On the other hand, if energy is always connected to an object, i.e. it 
> is a property of an object, it can easily be transferred to another 
> object by the application of forces. That is understandable to me, so 
> I prefer this approach.
>>
>>
>> My thoughts are that the simple, elementary particles, like the 
>> electron, which displays no internal structure of other particles in 
>> any experiment we have been able to conduct, is then probably a 
>> direct manifestation, of how energy forms particles.  I have been 
>> finally able to put together a model of the electron which displays 
>> all the properties of the electron, and is comprised of displacements 
>> of space (the result of energy pulling on space) which propagate in a 
>> confined transverse manner, to constitute the principally spherical 
>> electron.
>>
> For me an interesting question is how something abstract - like energy 
> - can form something real - like a particle. (Perhaps I need more 
> details to understand it.)
>>
>> The reason I mention this model, is that it yields the properties of 
>> the electron.
>>
>> 1.½ hbar spin when measured from any direction,
>>
>> 2.the exact electric charge of the electron,
>>
>> 3.the magnetic moment of the electron,
>>
>> 4.including the magnetic moment anomaly (accurate to 10 (or more) 
>> decimal places),
>>
>> 5.the rest mass of the electron,
>>
>> 6.the inertial and gravitational mass of the electron,
>>
>> 7.a gravity field (as do photons in the same sort of model),
>>
>> 8.Point-like appearance in many types of experiments
>>
>> 9.The zitter frequency of the electron,
>>
>> 10. de Broglie’s waves are generated by this model,
>>
>> 11.The model produces a “pilot wave” (for photons also),
>>
>> 12.The ability to simply derive E=mc^2 from the model.
>>
>> 13.Energy must be added to move the electron (which causes an 
>> internal mass increase)
>>
> This is an impressive list of facts and properties. But to judge it, 
> it is of course necessary to have your model as a /quantitative /one, 
> so that the single points can be checked. So, go ahead!  -   My model 
> anyway does all this - and quantitatively by only assuming c and h as 
> constants - as I have described it on my site "The origin of mass" and 
> the sites referenced there.
>>
>> While some of the listed properties are not of direct relevance to 
>> our discussion so far, the number of properties which agree with 
>> experiment may indicate that the model is getting closer to a model 
>> of the real electron.
>>
>> I am sure you can see now, why it is that I am of a different view 
>> than you, with regards to some of the fundamentals. Like any invested 
>> scientist, you and I have been able to find some answers by pursuing 
>> different perspectives of the same puzzles, and we each treasure what 
>> we have gained, so yes I am a bit psychologically and philosophically 
>> invested, as I am sure you are.
>>
> If I look at your list above, my model also yields all what you claim. 
> So, why do you say that it shows that we have different results?
>>
>> Now to address some of your comments:
>>
>> You commented:
>>
>> “/My objection is that momentum and mass have a common cause, and 
>> that is inertia. One cannot explain inertia by momentum as inertia is 
>> the cause of momentum. If there would be no inertia in the world 
>> there would also be no momentum of the kind known.”/
>>
>> //
>>
>> While it is quite true that the momentum of massive objects can be 
>> related to (and attributed to) inertia, it is not likely accurate to 
>> say that, from this alone, we can logically conclude that momentum 
>> cannot also cause inertia. *We see many examples in physics of 
>> reciprocal relationships between causes and effects.* Momentum and 
>> Inertia may also be reciprocal.  One can cause the other. We have no 
>> evidence which excludes this.
>>
> What we can say at least is that there is a strict correlation between 
> inertia and momentum. The rest is a question of the model we are using 
> - But I go a step further saying that inertia and momentum are notions 
> for a physically identical fact, we just use the different notions for 
> practical reasons depending on the application.
>>
>> Momentum is a type of force which tends to keep an object in motion.
>>
>> Inertia is also such a force which tends to keep an object in motion.
>>
>> In some ways they are names for the same effect.  The difference 
>> arises when we introduce the concept of mass.  If there is a 
>> mechanism, for example, which gives a photon momentum, do we then say 
>> that the photon has mass? Some have done this, but it is not strictly 
>> the same as the mass of an object, for we cannot bring a photon to 
>> rest, nor can we accelerate it. Without getting into semantics 
>> arguments, I would suggest that we call this property of a photon 
>> “momentum”, instead of “inertia”, because the photon does not behave 
>> like a massive particle or object.
>>
>> If you agree with this line of reasoning, then we could also agree 
>> that the photon is an example of momentum without mass.
>>
>> Even if you disagree, bear with me for a moment, while we discuss the 
>> implications of a photon having momentum without mass.  If the 
>> photon, a massless, light speed particle, has momentum, then we have 
>> an example of momentum which may indicate that momentum is more 
>> fundamental than mass, and could actually be a cause for mass. Even 
>> if you disagree with this concept please keep it in mind, for it may 
>> prove useful in the future.
>>
> But perhaps semantics at this moment. How is inertia defined? -> 
> Inertia is the resistance against a change of the speed of an object. 
> Now this is not necessarily restricted to the amount of speed, but can 
> also mean the direction of the speed vector. And then: the speed 
> vector of a photon can be changed and this change needs a force, and 
> in the general case the force transfers energy. In this respect the 
> situation is not different from other particles.
>>
>> But given the previous few paragraphs, I must disagree with you about 
>> inertia and momentum. I feel that there is no proof that momentum 
>> cannot cause mass or inertia, in fact I find significant evidence 
>> that momentum does in fact cause both mass and therefore inertia.
>>
> Then there must be a mechanism causing momentum. Which is this 
> mechanism? If you have this opinion you should be able do describe it. 
> - For inertia I have a basic mechanism which only needs the finiteness 
> of c and the existence of binding forces, nothing more.
>>
>> (In the paper I mentioned on Gravity, it was requisite to also 
>> include a discussion of the creation of fundamental momentum as a 
>> natural consequence of the propagation of transverse displacements in 
>> the tension medium of space.  I will share a copy when that is paper 
>> is ready.)
>>
>> This issue regarding gravity is another significant reason that I 
>> feel that momentum is fundamental, and is created by the propagation 
>> mechanism of transverse displacements.  This is because, with 
>> momentum created in this manner, which in turn creates mass when 
>> those propagations are suitably confined, the *force* of gravity 
>> comes from the energy (mass) within the particle. Gravity is then a 
>> refraction of the propagation of the displacements within the 
>> particle. All particles have the same refraction (acceleration) in a 
>> gravitational field, all objects would fall at the same rate, but a 
>> more massive object (an object which contains more of this 
>> propagating energy) would generate a greater force in the gravity field.
>>
> You say:"... with momentum created in this manner ...". So, please, in 
> which manner is momentum created? And earlier you say: " ... I feel 
> that momentum is fundamental ...". Isn't this a logical conflict? 
> Either "fundamental" or "created" ...
>
> And "momentum creates mass" and from "this mass comes force"? Which 
> physics is going on there?
>>
>> So there are many solutions, which become easy and evident using such 
>> an approach, too many for me to reject the concept that momentum may 
>> be more fundamental than mass or inertia.  There are too many clues, 
>> too much supporting evidence, that this is the correct premise, for 
>> me to conclude otherwise.
>>
> Form the preceding I do not see how it works. And particularly: how 
> does it work /quantitatively/? Where are the equations for it?
>>
>> Regarding conservation of energy:  I understand that you must reject 
>> the fundamental conservation of energy in order for your model to 
>> remain viable.  And then reconstruct a higher level cause for it, at 
>> the particle level, so that it can remain intact in the macro, 
>> observable world.  But I think this is an area for some careful 
>> consideration.  Do we change (reinterpret) the evidence so that it 
>> fits our models? We may do that, but it seems we have to be very 
>> careful, because the objective is to model the real universe.
>>
> My logic is the other way around. I can see from my model why energy 
> is conserved - on the level of an elementary particle or above that. 
> And following this consequence, I do not have a problem with exchange 
> particles.
>
> And, BTW, quantum mechanics are using exchange particles, they have 
> introduced it. And they have the position that energy conservation is 
> fundamental. So, they do not see a conflict here. It is just me to 
> suspect this conflict. Which, however, does not exist in my model.
>>
>> You Commented:
>>
>> “/There have been many ideas in the past to have a theory of an 
>> ether, but those all have caused great problems…”/
>>
>> On the contrary, the “great problems” you mention above don’t seem to 
>> exist.
>>
>> *John Stewart Bell said*.”/I would say that the cheapest resolution 
>> is something like going back to relativity as it was before Einstein, 
>> when people like Lorentz and Poincar´e thought that there was an 
>> aether – a preferred frame of reference – but that our measuring 
>> instruments were distorted by motion in such a way that we could not 
>> detect motion through the aether. Now, in that way you can imagine 
>> that there is a preferred frame of reference, and in this preferred 
>> frame of reference (some) things do go faster than light”…” Behind 
>> the apparent Lorentz invariance of the phenomena, there is a deeper 
>> level which is not Lorentz invariant, a pre-Einstein position of 
>> Lorentz and Poincar´e, Larmor and Fitzgerald, was perfectly coherent, 
>> and is not inconsistent with relativity theory. The idea that there 
>> is an aether, and these Fitzgerald contractions and Larmor dilations 
>> occur, and that as a result the instruments do not detect motion 
>> through the aether – that is a perfectly coherent point of view./”
>>
>> I have found the same things which Bell expressed.
>>
>> A perfectly coherent model.
>>
> What John Bell says here is exactly what my position is. In my last 
> mail I have said that I believe the existence of an ether of the kind 
> that there is an absolute frame of reference. I do not see here that 
> Bell assumes space to be filled with something, a property or a 
> material. - (Where did you find this text of Bell?)
>
> My remark that "ether" has caused problems in the history is directed 
> to an ether model which assumes that space is filled with something, 
> whatever it may be.
>>
>> A model in which the contractions and dilations, Lorentz 
>> Transformation, MUST occur due to the nature of matter, and of energy.
>>
>> I this model, the correct value of the force of electric charge is 
>> easily calculated. Gravity is easily understood, including the 
>> equivalence mechanism for gravitational and inertial mass.
>>
> In the Lorentzian relativity (i.e. SRT) there are two mechanisms 
> fundamental. One is the fact that fields contract at motion. This has 
> nothing to do with energy or other influences. (And it can be 
> explained best if exchange particles are assumed.) The other one is 
> the fact that there is a permanent motion at c in elementary 
> particles, which causes dilation. This motion is what Schrödinger has 
> called "Zitterbewegung". He found that the Dirac function can only 
> work on the basis of this assumption.
>
> How do you calculate the force of the electric charge quantitatively?
>>
>> So, yes, I will continue to refrain from accepting exchange particles 
>> for the creation of charge, or the Higgs mechanism for the creation 
>> of mass.  It seem much more fully understandable, much more elegant 
>> and simple, to take this other specific view of the causes for what 
>> we observe. That view is that space is a fairly simple tension 
>> medium, and fundamental energy pulls on space to displace space.  
>> This does not address what it is that comprises space itself, only 
>> that there must be at least two components which constitute space. 
>> This does mean that space has a set of properties which are 
>> universal. Identifying and quantifying those properties are part of 
>> my current work. As to what space is made of, unknown at this time.  
>> But we have to take this discovery like peeling an onion, one layer 
>> at a time.
>>
> I am very curious about your quantitative description of the tension 
> field which as you say fills the space. - But one correction: exchange 
> particles are not assumed to create charge. They are emitted from 
> charges and mediate the force between charges.
>>
>> Thank you again for this stimulating discussion.
>>
>> Chip
>>
> I think we are not so different as it looks like. So, let's go on!
> Albrecht
>>
>> *From:*General 
>> [mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com at lists.natureoflightandparticles.org] 
>> *On Behalf Of *Albrecht Giese
>> *Sent:* Monday, August 14, 2017 3:10 AM
>> *To:* general at lists.natureoflightandparticles.org
>> *Subject:* Re: [General] Role of observer, a deeper path to introspection
>>
>> Dear Chip,
>>
>> I think that we are coming to a point where we have to argue / decide 
>> the permanent question which theory is the easiest one and needs the 
>> smallest number of assumptions. I shall try to apply this to our 
>> discussion points in the following.
>>
>> Am 10.08.2017 um 22:17 schrieb Chip Akins:
>>
>>     Dear Albrecht
>>
>>     Thank you once again for some thought provoking comments.
>>
>>     I will also reply in the body of the text below.
>>
>>     Chip
>>
>>     *From:*General
>>     [mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com at lists.natureoflightandparticles.org]
>>     *On Behalf Of *Albrecht Giese
>>     *Sent:* Thursday, August 10, 2017 1:59 PM
>>     *To:* general at lists.natureoflightandparticles.org
>>     <mailto:general at lists.natureoflightandparticles.org>
>>     *Subject:* Re: [General] Role of observer, a deeper path to
>>     introspection
>>
>>     Dear Chip,
>>
>>     thank you for careful reading. But your objections are in my view
>>     the result of specific preconditions in your view which are not
>>     necessary. I shall respond within your text.
>>
>>     Am 08.08.2017 um 19:53 schrieb Chip Akins:
>>
>>
>>         Dear Albrecht
>>
>>         Thank you for your thoughtful response.
>>
>>         A few items occur to me while reading your message.
>>
>>         Exchange particles are a difficult concept, especially if
>>         space is empty.  For if space is empty then there is no
>>         causal mechanism which can tell a charged particle that
>>         another charge is in its vicinity.  Therefore how do they
>>         know to “exchange photons” if space is completely empty?  We
>>         know that a charged particle at rest is NOT continually
>>         radiating photons. We could imagine that it is continually
>>         radiating and absorbing photons to maintain its energy level,
>>         but then we would be able to detect such radiation, and we do
>>         not detect any such radiation from a charged particle at rest.
>>
>>     The concept of exchange particles which I know (and so far have
>>     borrowed from QM) assumes that a charge is permanently radiating
>>     exchange particles to all directions. As they are understood to
>>     be particles they can fly through empty space without any
>>     problem. And you are right that the radiation of exchange
>>     particles is a permanent violation of the conservation of energy.
>>     So, I think that conservation of energy is not a basic law of
>>     nature but a consequence of the set up of particles. For example,
>>     my particle model is built in a way that it conserves energy, But
>>     that is, as I said, a consequence of the configuration, not at
>>     all a general law. And further, as a consequence there cannot be
>>     energy by itself somewhere in space but energy is a property of
>>     an object. There must be objects so that we have energy.
>>
>>     This conservation of energy issue is not a concern, and energy is
>>     conserved, if we view space as a tension medium instead of
>>     empty.  With that one simple premise, we then have conservation
>>     of energy, and a causal explanation of specifically how particles
>>     possess energy, and how fields possess energy.  I feel the
>>     conservation of energy is crucial and is probably a law of
>>     physics.  It seems that to ignore such a concept violates cause
>>     and effect and then becomes “not physics” as you have stated
>>     regarding other topics. I think therefore there must be energy so
>>     that we can have objects.
>>
>> Historically the understanding that energy is conserved is quite 
>> young. It was found in the middle of the 19th century by the 
>> observation that mechanical energy is converted into heat energy so 
>> that a conservation could be assumed. This seems important to me 
>> because if /logic /would demand this conservation, then I think that 
>> it would have been detected much earlier.
>>
>> Anyway if we see it as an advantage of a theory that as few as 
>> possible laws are taken as fundamental and as many as possible laws 
>> as deducible, then I conclude that a theory that deduces this 
>> conservation of energy should be superior. I understand this as an 
>> argument in favour of my model.
>>
>> And one advantage for my assumption that the conservation of energy 
>> is a property of the configuration within particles is that with this 
>> assumption I do not see any arguments in disfavour of exchange 
>> particles (which is of course a model, not necessarily final 
>> understanding).
>>
>>         Another problem with “exchange particles”, specifically
>>         photons as exchange particles for electric charge, is the
>>         phase continuity problem. The idea, as I understand it, is
>>         that the frequency and phase of the exchange photon
>>         determines whether it pushes or pulls on the affected
>>         particle. But charge is constant and very predictable at any
>>         given distance, while phase would change with distance. We
>>         simply do not see the kind of behavior in electric charge we
>>         would see if it were mediated by photons. I have tried to
>>         simulate how it is that photons could provide the force we
>>         sense as electric charge, at any distance, without anomaly,
>>         and there just does not seem to be any way that can work
>>         without invoking some magical and unseen, anti-causal, mechanism.
>>
>>     You address an important problem here: the exchange particle
>>     emitted by a positive charge must be different from an exchange
>>     particle emitted by a negative charge. I have asked several
>>     theoreticians of main stream physics just this question. The
>>     result was a bit funny. Some of them were confused and did not
>>     know how to answer, some said that there is never only one
>>     exchange particle but always a collection of them and the
>>     configuration within this collection tell the other charge
>>     whether they come form a positive or a negative one. - I for
>>     myself do not think that this is a workable mechanism. But I like
>>     better the idea that these so called photons are not the same
>>     ones as the normal photons carrying energy, but they are another
>>     kind of particle. - I agree that main stream is propagating an
>>     inconsistent model here.
>>
>>     Due to these problems with exchange particles, I began a few
>>     decades ago, looking for some logical alternate explanation. 
>>     This is what led me to explore the possibility that we had gotten
>>     it wrong, and that space might not be empty.  That study has been
>>     more fruitful than I could have imagined.  The approach I have
>>     been suggesting makes things much simpler to model and
>>     understand.  While that in itself does not mean this approach is
>>     the right approach, there are many other supporting clues and
>>     evidence which become apparent as this avenue is explored.  One
>>     reason I currently prefer this approach is the fortunate effect
>>     such an approach has in removing the host of “magical”
>>     explanations we have become so accustomed to accepting without
>>     supporting cause or proofs.
>>
>> To see this I need more knowledge about your approach. Particularly 
>> the property of a non-empty space. What is in it? There have been 
>> many ideas in the past to have a theory of an ether, but those all 
>> have caused great problems to my knowledge. So please give details.
>>
>> Of course we all do not want "magical" explanations. But that is a 
>> matter of judgement, not of facts.
>>
>>         It is also quite interesting to me that you hold Lorentzian
>>         relativity to be more correct than Special relativity, but
>>         reject the foundation upon which Lorentz formulated his
>>         relativity.  His concept, as best I can determine from
>>         historical accounts, was that space was a medium, and that
>>         the Pythagorean relationships he formulated were due to the
>>         fixed speed of light and energy propagation in the medium.  I
>>         also believe that Lorentzian relativity is more accurate than
>>         Special relativity, but I believe that it is more accurate
>>         due to a clear cause and effect, which is only present if
>>         space is a medium.
>>
>>     Lorentz did not understand space as a medium. There was an
>>     interesting and detailed discussion between Einstein and Lorentz
>>     about the necessity of an ether. Einstein did not want an ether
>>     as we know, but Lorentz found it necessary to explain
>>     acceleration and rotation (which is GRT). And in this discussion
>>     it became very clear that Lorentz did not want anything more than
>>     an absolute frame of reference. Einstein's argument was that the
>>     equivalence of gravity and acceleration makes this unnecessary;
>>     which I find difficult logic. - The basic difference between the
>>     concept of Einstein and the one of Lorentz regarding SRT are two
>>     points: Einstein says that space contracts at motion, Lorentz
>>     says that fields contract at motion. The measurable consequences
>>     of both are the same. For dilation Einstein says that time slows
>>     down whereas Lorentz says that oscillations slow down; again
>>     there is no difference regarding measurements. - I like the
>>     Lorentzian way because it means physics whereas Einstein's way
>>     means mathematical abstractions.
>>
>>         That is interesting, My reading of all I could get of
>>         Lorentz’s work, has left me with the impression that he
>>         actually preferred a fixed frame in a medium of space.
>>
>> Can you please give a reference for a text which gave you this 
>> impression about the ether of Lorentz? If you look at the logic of 
>> his deduction of relativity, he only seems to need the assumption 
>> that the speed of light is defined with respect to some fixed 
>> reference frame, nothing more. - I can give as a reference a book:
>> [Ludwik_Kostro]_Einstein_and_the_ether(BookFi.org.pdf) .
>> Ludwik Kostro is a Polish professor for theoretical physics who has 
>> worked many years about the topic of ether. In this book he shows in 
>> detail the discussions of Einstein also with Lorentz about ether, and 
>> that shows quite clearly the position of Lorentz about it.
>>
>>
>>
>>         Yes. Gravity is different than the other forces.  And it is a
>>         warping of the fabric of space as Einstein imagined with
>>         General Relativity.  The force of gravity is not generated by
>>         the gravitational “field”, for the gravitational “field” is
>>         simply a gradient in space which causes refraction of energy
>>         propagating through the gradient. The force we feel from that
>>         refraction is actually created by the momentum of the energy
>>         circulating within fermionic particles. So the force is
>>         related to the energy content (mass) of the object which is
>>         in the refracting field. In this way, the momentum of the
>>         energy circulating within the particle causes both inertial
>>         mass and gravitational mass. So there is a causal mechanism,
>>         which makes gravitational and inertial mass appear
>>         equivalent, in a specific manner.
>>
>>     What is a "gradient of space"? Space is something which we cannot
>>     measure physically, so it is merely a mathematical concept. The
>>     reduction of c in a gravitational field, so in the vicinity of an
>>     object, is clearly measurable (even though not explained by
>>     saying this). But if we assume that forces are mediated by
>>     exchange particles, it is easily understandable that the
>>     interaction of any kind of exchange particles disturbs the path
>>     of a light-like particle and so reduces its speed. More is not
>>     necessary. - You say: "The momentum of the energy circulation
>>     within the particle causes both inertial mass and gravitational
>>     mass". To my understanding momentum does not cause inertial mass
>>     but is identical to inertial mass, just understood in a different
>>     context. And what is gravitational mass? Which mechanism causes a
>>     mass to be attracted by another mass? I have never heart an
>>     argument why this should be. The reduction of c by exchange
>>     particles is a possible mechanism and so serves as an argument.
>>
>>     And the good point in my view of gravity is that this concept is
>>     extremely easier to handle. I have as a demonstration listed
>>     (from a textbook) the deduction of the Schwarzschild solution via
>>     Einstein. It is a sequence of > 80 equations which need
>>     Riemannian geometry (i.e. a curved 4-dim. space) whereas the
>>     reduction of the Schwarzschild solution by the relativity of
>>     Lorentz and the use of refraction needs about a dozen equations
>>     of school mathematics (so Euclidean geometry) and it yields the
>>     same result. Isn't this a good argument?
>>
>>     A gradient of space is a gradient in the tension field of space
>>     caused by the displacement of space which is in turn caused by
>>     energy of particles.  Much as displacement caused a gradient in
>>     an elastic solid. Refraction of propagating transverse
>>     displacements in a medium is quite naturally caused by such a
>>     gradient, and we have many examples of such refraction.
>>
>> To understand this I need more information about what this tension 
>> field is. Up to now I am afraid that it could be very complicated, 
>> which would not be good.
>>
>> You also say at the end that gravitation is caused by the energy of 
>> particles (one could also say: by the mass of particles). In my view 
>> this is not the case but every elementary particles contributes 
>> equally to the gravitational field. This is unfamiliar, but I do not 
>> know any experiment which is in conflict with this assumption. On the 
>> contrary, there are two points which could be in favour of it: One is 
>> the fact that every object has the same gravitational acceleration 
>> independent of its mass. This fact was never understood and is said 
>> to be one of the great mysteries of present physics. The other 
>> benefit is that this assumption explains the rotation curves of 
>> rotating galaxies. They are, as you surely know, presently 
>> "explained" by the assumption of some mysterious Dark Matter, for 
>> which the experimenters look since some time without any indication 
>> that there is something like that. But with my assumption the photons 
>> serve as this Dark Matter, and this is not only an idea but it works 
>> quantitatively for precisely observed and measured galaxies.
>>
>>     You say that exchange particles explain gravity and that “more is
>>     not necessary” but exchange particles themselves are
>>     unexplainable by any of our existing physics, so I think more is
>>     necessary my friend.
>>
>> Why are exchange particles unexplainable? Their existence is kind of 
>> a model as there are many, and this model does not need many 
>> assumptions. Only the asumption that charges of any kind emit and 
>> receive these particles and each interaction with an exchange 
>> particle transfers a certain momentum - attracting or repelling - in 
>> the direction where the e.p. comes. They are mass-less and move 
>> always at c. And at emission they move uniformly into all directions. 
>> Which explains the 1/r^2 law of forces in a simple and geometric way. 
>> For which there is to my knowledge no other explanation available. - 
>> So, what is complicated or unexplainable with this assumption?
>>
>>     Regarding momentum, the force Fc that you and I have discussed,
>>     plays a role in the creation of momentum for the energy
>>     circulating within particles.  I can provide a fairly complete
>>     hypothesis for this creation of momentum if you are interested,
>>     but it is also based on the concept that space is a tension
>>     medium and the energy causes a displacement of space by pulling
>>     on space.
>>
>> Any details available?
>>
>>     Once we can see how it is that momentum is created by this force,
>>     we can then see why it is that confined circulating momentum
>>     causes inertial mass in fermions, but is just evident as momentum
>>     in photons.  Richard Gauthier has written a paper on how confined
>>     momentum creates inertial mass. I have a slightly different
>>     derivation but they are principally the same.
>>
>> I know the concept of Richard Gauthier as we have discussed this some 
>> time ago. My objection is that momentum and mass have a common cause, 
>> and that is inertia. One cannot explain inertia by momentum as 
>> inertia is the cause of momentum. If there would be no inertia in the 
>> world there would also be no momentum of the kind known. And I do not 
>> know any explanation in physics for inertia except the Higgs concept 
>> (which does not work as the Higgs field does not exist) and my model 
>> which refers it to the finite propagation speed of forces and which 
>> has precise quantitative results.
>>
>>     I am finishing up a paper on gravity and will soon share this if
>>     you are interested in looking at such a different approach for
>>     you own.
>>
>> I will be curious to see your paper.
>>
>>         Albrecht, thank you for your thoughtful and intelligent
>>         discussion.  While we do not agree on certain aspects, the
>>         exchanges are definitely quite helpful to me.  I appreciate that.
>>
>>         Chip
>>
>>     It is nice to have this discussion with you. Thanks
>>     Albrecht
>>
>>     Nice discussion!!!
>>
>>     Chip
>>
>> Still exciting!
>> Albrecht
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>         *From:*General
>>         [mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com at lists.natureoflightandparticles.org]
>>         *On Behalf Of *Albrecht Giese
>>         *Sent:* Monday, August 07, 2017 2:15 PM
>>         *To:* general at lists.natureoflightandparticles.org
>>         <mailto:general at lists.natureoflightandparticles.org>
>>         *Subject:* Re: [General] Role of observer, a deeper path to
>>         introspection
>>
>>         Dear Chip,
>>
>>         thank you for your response. - I think I have to give some
>>         more comments about my model.
>>
>>         I am using the concept of exchange particles (the only idea I
>>         have borrowed from QM) which is not to be confused with
>>         virtual particles. I also believe that virtual particles do
>>         not exist. One well known problem with them is the
>>         cosmological "vacuum catastrophe", which means the 
>>         difference between the theoretical energy of all virtual
>>         particles summed up and the real energy in the universe,
>>         which means a conflicting factor of 120 orders of magnitude.
>>         This assumption, also called "vacuum polarization", was
>>         invented to explain the Landé factor of the electron. In my
>>         model this Landé factor can be classically explained.
>>
>>         Exchange particles on the other hand are assumed to mediate
>>         forces. In case of the electric force the photon is assumed
>>         to be the exchange particle, which is (in this case) not a
>>         virtual particle.
>>
>>         How do you unify gravity and the electric force? This was
>>         attempted by many, also by Einstein who did not succeed with
>>         this idea. A general counterargument is the fact that gravity
>>         is so different from the other "three" forces that I think it
>>         is a completely different phenomenon, not even a force.
>>
>>         My approach to gravity is so a completely different one. We
>>         know from measurements (and also from Einstein's thoughts)
>>         that the speed of light is reduced in a gravitational field.
>>         (A formula for it follows from Einstein's GRT, but can also
>>         be deduced classically, what my model does.) If accordingly a
>>         light-like particle moves in a gravitational field, then its
>>         path is classically refracted towards the gravitational
>>         source. This - applied to the internal oscillations of a
>>         particle - causes the particle to move towards the
>>         gravitational source by a constant acceleration. This process
>>         fully explains gravitation, the classical one (as of Newton)
>>         as well as the relativistic one (as of Einstein).
>>
>>         Regarding space as pure emptiness, you ask the question: "If
>>         we assume space is completely empty then it does become quite
>>         difficult to explain the cause for relationships between
>>         space and time, and the cause for a fixed velocity of light."
>>         In my understanding this is not a problem. Because if we
>>         follow the relativity of Lorentz rather Einstein, there does
>>         not exist a special relationship between space and time. And
>>         the good thing about the Lorentzian relativity is that it is
>>         mathematically much simpler than Einstein's, more related to
>>         physics, and even though has fundamentally the same results
>>         as with Einstein. Space is then fully described by Euclidean
>>         geometry.
>>
>>         And regarding the speed of light we can change the statement
>>         "nothing can move faster than c" to a more radical one: "all
>>         objects at the lowest level, i.e. basic particles and
>>         exchange particles, /only move at c/; there is no other
>>         speed". Any objects moving at a different speed than c are
>>         not particles but configurations of particles, which of
>>         course can move at any speed. And why is this speed c
>>         constant? Because if mass-less objects moving at c interact,
>>         it is on the lowest level always an elastic interaction. Such
>>         interaction will change the direction of a motion, but never
>>         the speed of a motion. So if we now assume that during the
>>         Big Bang, in this very dense situation, all objects have
>>         taken the same speed, this speed has normally no reason to
>>         change any more later.
>>
>>         I think that one of the strongest reasons that physics did
>>         not progress during the last century is the assumption that
>>         space has certain properties rather than being empty.
>>         Particularly Einstein's assumptions about space and time have
>>         hampered progress in physics. It seems to me like a religion
>>         as it makes the understanding more complex without any
>>         necessity. Any comparison of the relativity of Einstein with
>>         the approach of Lorentz shows this very clearly.
>>
>>         Best regards
>>         Albrecht
>>
>>         Am 06.08.2017 um 20:43 schrieb Chip Akins:
>>
>>             Dear Albrecht
>>
>>             I really appreciate your response. You give detailed yet
>>             concise explanations and is very helpful.
>>
>>             It is quite amazing to me that our two completely
>>             different approaches and perceptions resolves to
>>             mathematics which agree with such accuracy and consistency.
>>
>>             I have read much of your work, and find it mentally
>>             stimulating.
>>
>>             However, with the approach I have used, I am able to do
>>             all the things you have mentioned as well.  But I am also
>>             able to demonstrate quantized electric charge without
>>             resorting to “virtual particles” to do so. In fact I do
>>             not think such particles exist.  I have also been able,
>>             recently, to unify the force of electric charge with
>>             gravity, and to show specific cause for inertial and
>>             gravitational mass equivalence. We have both found that
>>             the strong force exists in all particles, and that force
>>             is unified with the other forces as well. Using this
>>             approach there is no reason to try to explain how light
>>             mysteriously only propagates forward at c. It is not a
>>             mystery using this approach. If we assume space is
>>             completely empty then it does become quite difficult to
>>             explain the cause for relationships between space and
>>             time, and the cause for a fixed velocity of light.
>>
>>             So in my view, particles are not the most fundamental,
>>             but rather space and energy are fundamental.
>>
>>             There are problems with conventional QM which can be
>>             removed using such an approach.
>>
>>             For a time in our recent scientific history many
>>             physicists felt that space was empty. This of course
>>             occurred after the introduction of Special Relativity. 
>>             But later Einstein himself reversed his view on this
>>             topic, and stated that with General Relativity space is
>>             warped by gravity. One cannot warp what does not exist.
>>             But by the time General Relativity was introduced, the
>>             logical damage had already been done to the then
>>             developing QM theories. So we are stuck with mysterious
>>             “virtual particles” to explain force at a distance, when
>>             space itself is actually the most theoretically
>>             economical explanation.
>>
>>             So, I agree, that if you are going to start with the
>>             assumption that space is nothing, empty, then your
>>             approach is about the best one can do.
>>
>>             But it is not requisite that we constrain our thinking
>>             just because many others have a particular concept.
>>
>>             I feel one of the obstacles which has prevented our
>>             further progress, and caused physics to become more
>>             stagnant in the last century, is this concept that space
>>             is empty. For using that approach, leads to the
>>             unexplainable, or to “magical” explanations, instead of
>>             sound logical cause and effect.
>>
>>             Warmest Regards
>>
>>             Chip
>>
>>             *From:*General
>>             [mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com at lists.natureoflightandparticles.org]
>>             *On Behalf Of *Albrecht Giese
>>             *Sent:* Sunday, August 06, 2017 10:16 AM
>>             *To:* general at lists.natureoflightandparticles.org
>>             <mailto:general at lists.natureoflightandparticles.org>
>>             *Subject:* Re: [General] Role of observer, a deeper path
>>             to introspection
>>
>>             Dear Chip,
>>
>>             thank you for your detailed information. My approach is
>>             indeed a bit different and I would like to explain where
>>             and why.
>>
>>             You refer a lot of the phenomena to properties of space.
>>             That is something I do not. I have just finished reading
>>             a book which explains, in which way Einstein during his
>>             whole life has attempted to explain physical phenomena as
>>             properties of the space. He even tried to develop a
>>             universal field theory (a GTE) in this way. He did not
>>             have success. -  I try to do the opposite, so to develop
>>             physical models under the assumption that space is
>>             nothing than emptiness. One specific physical property
>>             which is normally related to space, the speed of light,
>>             is in my view the speed of all (massless) exchange
>>             particles which permanently move at the speed of light.
>>             Why are they doing it? I have a quite simple model for
>>             this, but even then it is too extensive to present it now
>>             at this place.
>>
>>             Most of the facts which you have addressed in the
>>             following are explained by my (2-particle) model.
>>
>>             At first the unresolved question why an electron (which
>>             is assumed to be smaller than 10^-18 m) can have a
>>             magnetic moment and a spin having the known values: QM
>>             says merely that this cannot be explained by
>>             visualisation, as it is a QM topic. So, not explained. My
>>             model explains it quantitatively.
>>
>>             Further points:
>>
>>             o   particle-wave: the particle has an alternating field
>>             around, which fulfils the requirements in this question
>>
>>             o  the mass of any lepton and any quark is correctly
>>             given by the size of the particle. There is only one
>>             parameter free for the corresponding formula, which is
>>             h*c (so nothing new)
>>
>>             o  the magnetic moment and the spin of all leptons and
>>             all quarks is also quantitatively explained by this
>>             model, no further free parameters needed
>>
>>             o  the relation /E=hv / follows from this model for
>>             leptons, for quarks, and surprisingly also for photons.
>>             So it is according to my model not a property of the
>>             space but of the model. This can be another indication
>>             that the photon is a particle
>>
>>             o  the relativistic dilation follows immediately from
>>             this model, no further free parameters needed
>>
>>             o  the relativistic increase of mass at motion follows
>>             directly from this model, no further free parameters needed
>>
>>             o the relativistic equation /E=mc^2 / follows from the
>>             model, no further free parameters needed
>>
>>             o  the dynamical mass of the photon follows from the
>>             model even though not all properties of the photon are
>>             explained by the model. But also the relation /E=hv/
>>             follows formally also for the photon.
>>
>>             o  energy conservation is in my view not a general
>>             property of the physical world (as it is violated in the
>>             case of exchange particles) but also this is a
>>             consequence of the set up of a particle as described by
>>             this model. So the saying that something is a
>>             "consequence of energy in space" is not reflected by the
>>             physical reality
>>
>>             I think that it is a reasonable requirement to judge
>>             physical models by asking for _quantitative_ results of a
>>             model. During my time working on models and participating
>>             in the according conferences I have seen so many elegant
>>             looking models that I did not find a better criterion for
>>             looking deeper into a model than looking for results,
>>             which can be compared to measurements.
>>
>>             As an introduction I refer again to my web site
>>             www.ag-physics.org/rmass <http://www.ag-physics.org/rmass> .
>>
>>             This was hopefully not too confusing (?)!
>>
>>             Albrecht
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>             Am 04.08.2017 um 17:47 schrieb Chip Akins:
>>
>>                 Dear Albrecht and Chandra
>>
>>                 If you don’t mind I would like to join this
>>                 discussion on the nature of light.
>>
>>                 This has been an area of study for me, also for
>>                 decades, as Chandra has mentioned.
>>
>>                 But still, it is not so easy to resolve this issue.
>>
>>                 In this discussion group, many have made good points
>>                 on both sides of this discussion.
>>
>>                 The best analysis I have been able to make of the
>>                 experimental data so far, seems to indicate that
>>                 light often acts like particles when reacting with
>>                 particles, and acts like waves when propagating
>>                 through space.
>>
>>                 As Chandra has pointed out, it is possible that light
>>                 is a wave and the quantization we notice is induced
>>                 by the particles (dipoles made of charges from
>>                 particles).
>>
>>                 The underlying cause for action is what I feel we
>>                 have to look for.  If energy behaves in a specific
>>                 manner when confined within a particle, it is due to
>>                 the properties of space. Which is to say that the
>>                 rules which govern the quantization of energy in
>>                 particles are rules imposed by the properties of
>>                 space. So if those rules exist in space in order to
>>                 cause particles of mass, it would follow that some of
>>                 the same rules (since these rules are part of space)
>>                 might govern the way energy behaves in light.
>>
>>                 As we analyze the available data /E=hv /becomes
>>                 evident. This is a set of boundary conditions imposed
>>                 on the behavior of energy in space. But /E=hv
>>                 /applies to the energy in light. The energy in
>>                 particles is better characterized by /E=hv/2/. And
>>                 the frequency /v/ in particles of mass is /2v/ the
>>                 frequency in light.
>>
>>                 It occurs to me that the NIW property which Chandra
>>                 has rediscovered could be due to the simple
>>                 preservation of momentum, or it could be due to the
>>                 point-like localization of the “energy” at the origin
>>                 of what we call a photon.
>>
>>                 So, I am still trying to sort all this out. But given
>>                 the information which is known, it currently feels to
>>                 me that we should consider that space imposes a set
>>                 of rules on the behavior of energy in space.
>>
>>                 If we follow the concept that space is a tension
>>                 field, then we must also realize that in that model,
>>                 energy must PULL on space, in order for us to sense
>>                 that /E=hv/. This is specifically why we would see
>>                 that more energetic particles are *smaller
>>                 particles*. And following that premise to a logical
>>                 conclusion, light would almost have to be a quantized
>>                 wave packet.
>>
>>                 I have found remarkable agreement between Albrecht’s
>>                 math and my research, but I have come to these
>>                 equations using a totally different approach, and I
>>                 do not think the two massless particle explanation
>>                 for the electron is the most instructive way to
>>                 envision this particle.
>>
>>                 My view is more similar to Chandra’s view that space
>>                 is a tension field, and particles are made of energy
>>                 (which is pulling on this tension field, causing
>>                 displacements,) which propagate at the speed of
>>                 light.  But that premise seems to me to require that
>>                 the reaction of space to energy sets up oscillatory
>>                 boundary conditions, making more energetic particles
>>                 smaller, and quantizing all transverse propagation of
>>                 energy in space.  This means that I currently feel
>>                 that photons exist. But I am willing to entertain
>>                 alternate suggestions.
>>
>>                 Chip
>>
>>                 *From:*General
>>                 [mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com at lists.natureoflightandparticles.org]
>>                 *On Behalf Of *Roychoudhuri, Chandra
>>                 *Sent:* Thursday, August 03, 2017 5:09 PM
>>                 *To:* Nature of Light and Particles - General
>>                 Discussion
>>                 <general at lists.natureoflightandparticles.org>
>>                 <mailto:general at lists.natureoflightandparticles.org>
>>                 *Subject:* Re: [General] Role of observer, a deeper
>>                 path to introspection
>>
>>                 Albrecht: Let me start by quoting your concluding
>>                 statement:
>>
>>                 /“You have the idea of your Complex Tension Field.
>>                 Now doubt that this is an intelligent idea. My goal,
>>                 however, is to find a model for all this, which is as
>>                 simple and as classical as possible (avoiding
>>                 phenomena like excitations), and at present I believe
>>                 that my model is closer to this goal.”/
>>
>>                 The implied meaning to me is that I have proposed a
>>                 model that is totally irreconcilable to your model of
>>                 the universe. My book, “Causal Physics: Photon by
>>                 Non-Interaction of Waves” CRC, 2014) has given better
>>                 explanations for most of the optical phenomena based
>>                 upon this re-discovered NIW-property of all waves;
>>                 which I have also summarized many times in this
>>                 forum. See the last paragraph to appreciate why my
>>                 mental logic was forced to accept the “Complex
>>                 Tension Field” holds 100% of the cosmic energy. I
>>                 understand that it is a radical departure from the
>>                 prevailing “successful” theories. However, it makes a
>>                 lot of mutually congruent sense even for some
>>                 cosmological phenomena.
>>
>>                 Differences in our opinions are OK. That is the
>>                 purpose of this forum. Further, I would not dare to
>>                 claim that my model of the universe is THE correct
>>                 one; or even the best one for the present! I am open
>>                 to enriching my thinking by learning from other
>>                 models. This is the key reason why I have been
>>                 investing decades of my time to re-energize the
>>                 enquiring minds of many through (i) organizing
>>                 special publications, (ii) special conferences and
>>                 this (iii) web-based open forum. Because, I, alone,
>>                 simply cannot solve the culturally and historically
>>                 imposed tendency of believing what appears to be
>>                 currently working knowledge, as the final knowledge.
>>                 Presently, this is happening in all spheres of human
>>                 theories (knowledge), whether meant for Nature
>>                 Engineering (physics, chemistry, biology, etc.) and
>>                 Social Engineering (politics, economics, religions,
>>                 etc.).
>>
>>                 I also believe that we are all “blind people”,
>>                 modeling the Cosmic Elephant based on our individual
>>                 perceptions and self-congruent logical intelligence.
>>                 We now need to keep working to develop some “logical
>>                 connectivity” to bring out some form of “conceptual
>>                 continuity” between our different and imagined
>>                 descriptions of the Cosmic Elephant. Finding working
>>                 logics behind persistent, but logical evolution, in
>>                 nature cannot be resolved by democratic consensus.
>>                 Further, we are in a position to declare our current
>>                 understanding as the final laws of nature. The
>>                 working rules in nature has been set many billions of
>>                 years before our modern Gurus started defining the
>>                 creator of the universe as various forms of gods.
>>                 None of our major messiahs have ever alerted us that
>>                 we must develop the technology to travel to planets
>>                 in distant stars before the earth is vaporized due to
>>                 the eventual arrival of Solar Warming due to its
>>                 evolution into a Red Giant! Fortunately, some of our
>>                 foresighted engineers have already started to develop
>>                 the early experimental steps towards that vision.
>>
>>                 However much you may dislike “philosophy”
>>                 (methodology of thinking, or epistemology);*/it is
>>                 the key platform where we can  mingle our ideas to
>>                 keep generating something better and better and
>>                 better. /*That has been the entire history of human
>>                 evolution. Except, human species have now become too
>>                 self-centered and too arrogant to care for the
>>                 biosphere. We are now virtually a pest in the
>>                 biosphere. Scientific epistemology that is totally
>>                 disconnected from our sustainability would be,
>>                 eventually, a path to our own extinction. Our
>>                 epistemology must be grounded to sustainability for
>>                 our own collective wellbeing. All the
>>                 accomplishments, from the ancient times, then from
>>                 Galileo, Newton, then from Einstein, Heisenberg, and
>>                 then, all the way to recent times, would not mean an
>>                 iota to our grand-grand-grand kids if the Global
>>                 warming takes a decisive irreversible slide! None
>>                 other than Einstein pronounced in 1947:
>>
>>                 /“Science without epistemology is — insofar as it is
>>                 thinkable at all — /*/primitive and muddled./*/”/
>>
>>                 This is why I have started promoting the overarching
>>                 concept, “The Urgency of Evolution */Process
>>                 /*Congruent Thinking”. The “Process” is connected to
>>                 engineering (practical) thinking. It is not some
>>                 grandiose and complex approach like mathematics
>>                 behind the “String Theory”, which only a limited
>>                 number of people with mathematically inclined brains
>>                 can understand and participate after dedicating at
>>                 least a decade of their professional lives.
>>
>>                 The recognition of the importance of “Evolution
>>                 Process Congruent Thinking” is trivially simple. What
>>                 has been the basic urge common to all species, from
>>                 bacteria to humans? (i) Keep striving to do better
>>                 than our current best and (ii) live forever
>>                 pragmatically through our progenies. For
>>                 knowledgeable humans, it means to assure the
>>                 sustainability of our biosphere that collectively
>>                 nurtures mutually dependent all lives.
>>
>>                 Finally, I need to underscore the origin of my
>>                 concept of Complex Tension Field (CTF). This was
>>                 necessary to accommodate (i) constant velocity of
>>                 light in every part of the universe and (ii) Optical
>>                 Doppler Shifted spectra from atoms in any star in any
>>                 galaxy, including our Sun. All atoms, whether in
>>                 earth lab or in a distant star corona, are
>>                 experiencing the same stationary CTF. But, the
>>                 trigger point to conceive CTF came from my
>>                 re-discovery of the Non-Interaction of Waves (NIW);
>>                 which is already built into our current math.
>>                 However, the inertia of our cultural tendency is to
>>                 continue believing in non-causal postulate of
>>                 wave-particle duality from the erroneous assumption
>>                 that Superposition Principle is an observable
>>                 phenomenon. It is not. The observable phenomenon is
>>                 the causal and measurable Superposition Effect
>>                 reported through physical transformation in
>>                 detectors. My book, “Causal Physics: Photon Model by
>>                 Non-Interaction of Waves”, is the result of some 50
>>                 years of wide variety of optical experiments. By my
>>                 own philosophy, it is definitely not infallible.
>>                 However, it would be hard to neglect, at least in the
>>                 field of optical sciences. Please, go to the web site
>>                 to down load my recent Summer School course
>>                 summarizing my book.
>>
>>                 http://www.natureoflight.org/CP/
>>
>>                 It summarizes the breadth of my book as applied to
>>                 optical sciences. [Indian paperback is already
>>                 published. I am now working on a Chinese edition and
>>                 then convert to Senior level optics text.
>>
>>                 Sorry, Albrecht, for such a long reply.
>>
>>                 Chandra.
>>
>>                 *From:*General
>>                 [mailto:general-bounces+chandra.roychoudhuri=uconn.edu at lists.natureoflightandparticles.org]
>>                 *On Behalf Of *Albrecht Giese
>>                 *Sent:* Thursday, August 03, 2017 2:30 PM
>>                 *To:* general at lists.natureoflightandparticles.org
>>                 <mailto:general at lists.natureoflightandparticles.org>
>>                 *Subject:* Re: [General] Role of observer, a deeper
>>                 path to introspection
>>
>>                 Chandra,
>>
>>                 do you really see a structural difference of photons
>>                 (or of EM waves) depending on their frequency/energy?
>>                 You surely know that this does not conform to the
>>                 general understanding of present physics? And now in
>>                 your view: at which frequency/energy does the
>>                 structure change? Because at some point there must be
>>                 a break, doesn't it?
>>
>>                 Why do you think that photons (Gamma wave packets) do
>>                 not have inertial mass? They have energy, no doubt.
>>                 And energy is related to inertial mass, agree?
>>                 Photons / Gamma wave packets - also low energy wave
>>                 packets - have a momentum and cause a radiation
>>                 pressure. We know - and can measure - the radiation
>>                 pressure of the sun. Spaceships react on it. To my
>>                 knowledge, no one has never met a photons which no
>>                 mass. The assumption of no-mass is the result of a
>>                 model, nothing more.
>>
>>                 The conversion of particles is an unresolved question
>>                 of present physics. QM is giving descriptions - they
>>                 have generation operators - but as usual  no physical
>>                 explanation. -  I find it funny that photons can be
>>                 generated in large numbers when an electric charge
>>                 experiences a changing field, supposed the necessary
>>                 energy is present. The other reaction, the conversion
>>                 of a photon into an electron-positron pair is in the
>>                 view of my particle model not surprising. You may
>>                 remember that in my model a lepton and a quark is
>>                 built by a pair of massless "Basic" particles (which
>>                 have electric charge). I find it possible that also a
>>                 photon is built in this way, but as the photon has
>>                 twice the spin of a lepton/quark it may be built by
>>                 two pairs of basic particles rather than one, which
>>                 have in this case positive and negative electric
>>                 charges. And if now the photon interacts with another
>>                 object so that momentum can be exchanged, it may
>>                 break off into two halves, so into an electron and a
>>                 positron as all necessary constituents are already
>>                 there.
>>
>>                 Why does a photon cause scattering, interference, and
>>                 so on? Because in this model it has positive and
>>                 negative electric charges in it. And as these charges
>>                 a orbiting (with c of course) they cause an
>>                 alternating electric field in the vicinity, and so
>>                 there is a classical wave causing this wave-related
>>                 behaviour. I find this simple, and it fits to de
>>                 Broglie's idea, and in addition it solves the
>>                 particle-wave question very classically. And this
>>                 works independent of the energy (=frequency) of the
>>                 photon.
>>
>>                 You have the idea of your Complex Tension Field. Now
>>                 doubt that this is an intelligent idea. My goal,
>>                 however, is to find a model for all this, which is as
>>                 simple and as classical as possible (avoiding
>>                 phenomena like excitations), and at present I believe
>>                 that my model is closer to this goal.
>>
>>                 I think that this is the difference between our models.
>>
>>                 Albrecht
>>
>>                 Am 01.08.2017 um 23:55 schrieb Roychoudhuri, Chandra:
>>
>>                     Albrecht:
>>
>>                     Your “photon” is of Gamma frequency, whose
>>                     behavior is dramatically different from those of
>>                     frequencies of X-rays and all the lower ones to
>>                     radio. Yes, I agree that the behavior of Gamma
>>                     wave packet is remarkably similar to particles;
>>                     */but they are not inertial particles/*. They are
>>                     still non-diffracting EM */wave packets/*, always
>>                     traveling with the same velocity “c” in vacuum
>>                     and within materials, except while directly
>>                     head-on encountering heavy nucleons.
>>
>>                     I have written many times before that the
>>                     Huygens-Fresnel diffraction integral correctly
>>                     predicts that the propensity of diffractive
>>                     spreading of EM waves is inversely proportional
>>                     to the frequency. Based upon experimental
>>                     observations in multitudes of experiments, it is
>>                     clear that EM waves of Gamma frequency do not
>>                     diffractively spread; they remain localized.
>>                     */Buried in this transitional behavior of EM
>>                     waves lies deeper unexplored physics. I do not
>>                     understand that./* But, that is why I have been,
>>                     in general, pushing for incorporating Interaction
>>                     Process Mapping Epistemology (IPM-E), over and
>>                     above the prevailing Measurable Data Modeling
>>                     Epistemology (MDM-E).
>>
>>                     Current particle physics only predicts and
>>                     validates that Gamma-energy, through interactions
>>                     with heavy nucleons, can become a pair of
>>                     electron and positron pair. Similarly, an
>>                     electron can break up into a pair of Gamma wave
>>                     packets. Their velocity always remain “c”, within
>>                     materials (except nucleons), or in vacuum!! They
>>                     are profoundly different from inertial particles.
>>
>>                     This is why, I have also postulated that the 100%
>>                     of the energy of the universe is in the form of a
>>                     very tense and physically stationary Complex
>>                     Tension Field (CTF). This CTF is also the
>>                     universal inertial reference frame. Elementary
>>                     particles that project inertial mass-like
>>                     property through interactions, are self-looped
>>                     resonant oscillation of the same CTF. This
>>                     internal velocity is the same c as it is for EM
>>                     waves. However, their The linear excitations of
>>                     the CTF, triggered by diverse dipoles, EM waves
>>                     are perpetually pushed by the CTF to regain its
>>                     state of unexcited equilibrium state. This is the
>>                     origin of perpetual velocity of EM wave packets.
>>                     For self-looped oscillations, f, at the same
>>                     velocity c, the CTF “assumes” that it is
>>                     perpetually pushing away the perturbation at the
>>                     highest velocity it can. Unfortunately, it
>>                     remains locally micro-stationary (self-looped).
>>                     The corresponding inertial property becomes our
>>                     measured (rest mass = hf-internal). When we are
>>                     able to bring other particles nearby, thereby
>>                     introducing effective perceptible potential
>>                     gradient to the first particle, it “falls” into
>>                     this potential gradient, acquiring extra kinetic
>>                     energy of (1/2)mv-squared = hf-kinetic. This
>>                     f-kinetic is a secondary oscillatory frequency
>>                     that facilitates the physical movement of the
>>                     particle through the CTF. This f-kinetic
>>                     frequency replaces de Broglie pilot wave and
>>                     removes the unnecessary postulate of
>>                     wave-particle duality. [See the attached Ch.11 of
>>                     my book.
>>
>>                     Most likely, you would not be happy with my
>>                     response because, (i) we model nature very
>>                     differently, and (ii) I do not understand the
>>                     physical processes behind the transformations:
>>                     Gamma to Electron+Positron, or Electron to Gamm-Pair.
>>
>>                     Chandra.
>>
>>                     *From:*General
>>                     [mailto:general-bounces+chandra.roychoudhuri=uconn.edu at lists.natureoflightandparticles.org]*On
>>                     Behalf Of *Albrecht Giese
>>                     *Sent:* Tuesday, August 01, 2017 4:30 PM
>>                     *To:* general at lists.natureoflightandparticles.org
>>                     <mailto:general at lists.natureoflightandparticles.org>
>>                     *Subject:* Re: [General] Role of observer, a
>>                     deeper path to introspection
>>
>>                     Chandra,
>>
>>                     I now feel a bit helpless. I thought that I have
>>                     written clearly enough that the Compton Effect is
>>                     NOT the aspect I wanted to present and to discuss
>>                     here. True that this was the original purpose of
>>                     the experiment, but the aspect of the experiment
>>                     used for my question was different. But now you
>>                     write: "So, I assume that you are asking me to
>>                     explain physical process behind Compton Effect by
>>                     classical approach."   What can I do that you do
>>                     not turn around my intention? Write in capital
>>                     letters?
>>
>>                     So once again the following process: An electron
>>                     of a certain energy is converted into something
>>                     called traditionally a "photon". Then after a
>>                     flight of about 10 meters through air this photon
>>                     is re-converted into an electron-position pair.
>>                     The energy of this pair is exactly the energy of
>>                     the originating electron. And again my question:
>>                     How can one explain this process if it is not
>>                     assumed that this "photon" carried exactly this
>>                     amount of energy? And what is wrong with the
>>                     assumption that this "photon" was - at least in
>>                     this application - some type of a particle?
>>
>>                     You have attached several papers about photons. I
>>                     have looked through most of them (as much as it
>>                     was possible in a limited time). I have found
>>                     almost nothing there which has to do with my
>>                     question above.
>>
>>                     The first paper is about the Compton Effect. So,
>>                     not at all my topic here.
>>
>>                     The second paper is a combination of several
>>                     sub-papers. In the third of these sub-papers the
>>                     author (Rodney Loudon) has presented different
>>                     occurrences of a photon with respect to different
>>                     experiments. And in his view the photon can
>>                     exhibit a behaviour as it appeared in my
>>                     experiment. In the others I did not find
>>                     something similar. (Perhaps I have overlooked the
>>                     corresponding portions and you can help me with a
>>                     reference.)
>>
>>                     The third paper (of W.E. Lamp) denies the
>>                     occurrence of a photon like in my experiment
>>                     completely. How should I make use of this paper?
>>
>>                     Or what did I overlook?
>>
>>                     In general I see good chances to explain many
>>                     physical phenomena classically which are
>>                     according to main stream only treatable (however
>>                     mostly not "understandable") by quantum
>>                     mechanics. This is a master goal of my work. But
>>                     the papers which you have sent me are all
>>                     following main stream in using quantum mechanics.
>>                     So, also the mystification of physics done by
>>                     QM/Copenhagen. I thought that also you have been
>>                     looking for something alternative and new.
>>
>>                     Albrecht
>>
>>                     Am 31.07.2017 um 21:45 schrieb Roychoudhuri, Chandra:
>>
>>                         Albrecht:
>>
>>                         “How do you explain */the process going on in
>>                         my experiment/* without assuming the photon
>>                         as a particle? (Details again below.)
>>
>>                         “And I have (also) repeatedly referred to my
>>                         */PhD experiment, which was Compton
>>                         scattering at protons./*”… Albrecht
>>
>>                         I picked up the above quotations from below.
>>                         So, I assume that you are asking me to
>>                         explain physical process behind Compton
>>                         Effect by classical approach.
>>
>>                         I am attaching two papers in support of
>>                         semi-classical approach. Dodd directly goes
>>                         to explain Compton Effect by semi-classical
>>                         model. Nobeliate Lamb puts down the very
>>                         “photon” concept generically. I knew Lamb
>>                         through many interactions. Myself and another
>>                         colleague had edited a special issue in his
>>                         honor (see attached) dedicated on his 90^th
>>                         birthday.
>>
>>                         Chandra.
>>
>>                         */PS: /**/Regarding Philosophy:/*In my
>>                         viewpoint, the */gravest mistake/* of the
>>                         physics community for several hundred years
>>                         has been to consider self-introspection of
>>                         our individual thinking logic as unnecessary
>>                         philosophy. Erroneous assumption behind that
>>                         is to think that our neural network is a
>>                         perfectly objective organ; rather than a
>>                         generic “hallucinating” organ to assure our
>>                         successful biological evolution. It is high
>>                         time that physicists, as a community, start
>>                         appreciating this limiting modes of thinking
>>                         logic have been holding us back. This is why
>>                         I have become a “broken record” to repeatedly
>>                         keep on “playing” the same ancient story of
>>                         five collaborating blind men modeling an
>>                         elephant.  Their diverse “objective”
>>                         observations do not automatically blend in to
>>                         a logically self-consistent living animal.
>>                         Only when they impose the over-arching
>>                         condition that it is a living animal, their
>>                         iterative attempts to bring SOME conceptual
>>                         continuity between the diverse “objective”
>>                         observations; their model starts to appear as
>>                         “elephant-like”! The Cosmic Elephant, that we
>>                         are trying to model, is a lot more complex
>>                         system. We are not yet in a position to
>>                         declare a*/ny of our component theories /*as
>>                         a final theory! Fortunately, reproducible
>>                         experimental validations of many mathematical
>>                         theories imply that the laws of nature
>>                         function causally. Sadly, Copenhagen
>>                         Interpretation insists on telling nature that
>>                         she ought to behave non-causally at the
>>                         microscopic level. As if, a macro */causal
>>                         universe/* can emerge out of */non-causal
>>                         micro universe/*!
>>
>>                         ==================================================
>>
>>                         On 7/29/2017 1:19 PM, Albrecht Giese wrote:
>>
>>                             Chandra,
>>
>>                             my intention this time was to avoid a too
>>                             philosophical discussion, interesting as
>>                             it may be, and to avoid the risk to
>>                             extend it towards infinity. So, this time
>>                             I only intended to discuss a specific point.
>>
>>                             Therefore the main point of my mail: How
>>                             do you explain */the process going on in
>>                             my experiment/*without assuming the
>>                             photon as a particle? (Details again below.)
>>
>>                             Albrecht
>>
>>                             Am 29.07.2017 um 00:28 schrieb
>>                             Roychoudhuri, Chandra:
>>
>>                                 Albrecht:
>>
>>                                 Thanks for your critical questions. I
>>                                 will try to answer to the extent I am
>>                                 capable of. They are within your
>>                                 email text below.
>>
>>                                 However, I am of the general opinion
>>                                 that Physics has advanced enough to
>>                                 give us the confidence that generally
>>                                 speaking, we have been heading in the
>>                                 right direction – the laws of natural
>>                                 evolution are universally causal in
>>                                 action and are independent of the
>>                                 existence or non-existence of any
>>                                 particular species, including human
>>                                 species.
>>
>>                                      History has also demonstrated
>>                                 (Kuhn’s Structure of Scientific
>>                                 revolutions) that all working
>>                                 theories eventually yield to newer
>>                                 theories based upon constructing
>>                                 better fundamental postulates using
>>                                 better and broad-based precision
>>                                 data. So, this century is destined to
>>                                 enhance all the foundational
>>                                 postulates behind most working
>>                                 theories and integrate them into a
>>                                 better theory with much less
>>                                 “hotchpotch” postulates like “wave
>>                                 particle-duality”, “entanglement”,
>>                                 “action at a distance”, etc., etc.
>>                                 Our community should agree and stop
>>                                 the time-wasting philosophical
>>                                 debates like, “Whether the moon
>>                                 EXISTS when I am not looking for it!”
>>                                 Would you waste your time writing a
>>                                 counter poem, if I write, “The moon
>>                                 is a dusty ball of Swiss cheese”?
>>
>>                                 */In summary, leveraging the
>>                                 evolutionary power of
>>                                 self-introspection, human observers
>>                                 will have to learn to CONSCIOUSLY
>>                                 direct further evolution of their own
>>                                 mind out of its current trap of
>>                                 biologically evolved neural logics
>>                                 towards pure logic of dispassionate
>>                                 observers who do not influence the
>>                                 outcome of experimental
>>                                 observations!/* Let us not waste any
>>                                 more of our valuable time reading and
>>                                 re-reading the inconclusive
>>                                 Bohr-Einstein debates. We are not
>>                                 smarter than them; but we have a lot
>>                                 more observational data to structure
>>                                 our logical thinking than they had
>>                                 access to during their life time. So,
>>                                 lets respectfully jump up on the
>>                                 concept-shoulders of these giants, a
>>                                 la Newton, and try to increase our
>>                                 Knowledge Horizon. Bowing down our
>>                                 head at their feet will only reduce
>>                                 our Knowledge Horizon.
>>
>>                                 Chandra.
>>
>>                                 *From:*General
>>                                 [mailto:general-bounces+chandra.roychoudhuri=uconn.edu at lists.natureoflightandparticles.org]*On
>>                                 Behalf Of *Albrecht Giese
>>                                 *Sent:* Friday, July 28, 2017 11:55 AM
>>                                 *To:*
>>                                 general at lists.natureoflightandparticles.org
>>                                 <mailto:general at lists.natureoflightandparticles.org>
>>                                 *Subject:* Re: [General] Role of
>>                                 observer, a deeper path to introspection
>>
>>                                 Chandra,
>>
>>                                 you have written here a lot of good
>>                                 and true considerations; with most of
>>                                 them I can agree. However two
>>                                 comments from my view:
>>
>>                                 1.) The speed of light:
>>                                 The speed of light when /measured in
>>                                 vacuum /shows always a constant
>>                                 value. Einstein has taken this result
>>                                 as a fact in so far that the real
>>                                 speed of light is constant. [Sorry
>>                                 there are no perfect vacuum in space,
>>                                 or on earth. Even a few atoms per
>>                                 100-Lamda-cubed volume defines an
>>                                 effective refractive index for light
>>                                 in that volume. The outer space is a
>>                                 bit more rarer.]
>>
>>                             I forgot to say: Measurement of c outside
>>                             a gravitational field. - Of course this
>>                             and the vacuum is nowhere perfectly
>>                             available, but we come so close to it
>>                             that we have sufficiently good results.
>>                             In the gravitational field on the earth
>>                             the speed of light is reduced by round
>>                             about a portion of about 10^-6 . And in
>>                             the DESY synchrotron there was a vacuum
>>                             good enough so that c was only reduced by
>>                             a portion of about 10^-15 . I think that
>>                             this comes close enough to the ideal
>>                             conditions so that we can draw
>>                             conclusions from it. And the equations
>>                             describing this can be proven by a
>>                             sufficient precision.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>                                 However if we follow the Lorentzian
>>                                 interpretation of relativity then
>>                                 only the /measured /c is constant. It
>>                                 looks constant because, if the
>>                                 measurement equipment is in motion,
>>                                 the instruments change their
>>                                 indications so that the result shows
>>                                 the known constant value. - I
>>                                 personally follow the Lorentzian
>>                                 relativity because in this version
>>                                 the relativistic phenomena can be
>>                                 deduced from known physical
>>                                 behaviour.[I am more comfortable with
>>                                 Lorentzian logics than Einsteinian.
>>                                 However, I do not consider this
>>                                 thinking will remain intact as our
>>                                 understanding evolves further. ]
>>
>>                             Which kind of changes do you expect?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>                                 So, it is true physics.[Sorry, I do
>>                                 not believe that we will ever have
>>                                 access to a final (“true”) physics
>>                                 theory! We will always have to keep
>>                                 on iterating the postulates and the
>>                                 corresponding theories to make them
>>                                 evolve as our mind evolves out of
>>                                 biological-survival-logics towards
>>                                 impartial-observer-logics.]
>>
>>                             Perhaps it was bad wording from my side.
>>                             -  Whereas I understand Einstein's
>>                             relativity as a mathematical system, the
>>                             Lorentzian is intended to describe
>>                             physics. That was meant.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>                                 There is a different understanding of
>>                                 what Wolf thinks. He has in the
>>                                 preceding discussion here given an
>>                                 equation, according to which the
>>                                 speed of light can go up to infinity.
>>                                 This is to my knowledge in conflict
>>                                 with any measurement.[I agree with
>>                                 you. All equations for propagating
>>                                 wave tell us that the speed is
>>                                 determined by the intrinsic physical
>>                                 tension properties of the
>>                                 corresponding mother “field”. I have
>>                                 not found acceptable logic to support
>>                                 infinite speed for propagating waves.]
>>
>>                                 2) The quantisation of light:
>>                                 This was also discussed repeatedly
>>                                 here in these mails. And I have
>>                                 (also) repeatedly referred to my
>>                                 */PhD experiment, which was Compton
>>                                 scattering at protons./*[There are
>>                                 number of papers that explain Compton
>>                                 Effect using semi classical theory,
>>                                 using X-rays as classical wave
>>                                 packets. De Broglie got his Nobel
>>                                 based on his short PhD thesis
>>                                 proposing “Pilot Wave” for electron
>>                                 diffraction phenomenon along with
>>                                 “Lambda= “h/p”. I happened to have
>>                                 proposed particles as localized
>>                                 harmonic oscillators with
>>                                 characteristic “Kinetic Frequency”,
>>                                 rather than wavelength (See Ch.11 of
>>                                 my “Causal Physics” book). This
>>                                 explains particle diffraction without
>>                                 the need of “wave particle duality”.
>>                                 I have separately published paper
>>                                 modeling, using spectrometric data,
>>                                 that QM predicted photon is a
>>                                 transient photon at the moment of
>>                                 emission with energy “hv”. Then it
>>                                 quickly evolves into a
>>                                 quasi-exponential wave packet with a
>>                                 carrier frequency “v”. This bridges
>>                                 the gap between the QM predictions
>>                                 and all the successes of the
>>                                 classical HF integral. ]
>>
>>                             I am sorry that I mentioned that this
>>                             experiment was intended to check a
>>                             specific property of the Compton effect.
>>                             Because this fact is of no relevance for
>>                             our discussion here. The relevant point
>>                             is that an electron of a defined energy
>>                             was converted into something which we
>>                             call a "photon". And after about 10
>>                             meters flight through the air with a
>>                             negligible deflection it was reconverted
>>                             into an electron-positron pair, which
>>                             then represented the energy of the
>>                             original electron. And this was done for
>>                             different energies of this original
>>                             electron. - My question is how this
>>                             process can be explained without the
>>                             assumption that the photon did have a
>>                             quantized amount of energy, which means
>>                             it to be a particle.
>>
>>                             Regarding the particle wave question I
>>                             have presented every time at our SPIE
>>                             meeting in San Diego a particle model
>>                             which is in fact a specific realization
>>                             of de Broglie's pilot wave idea. I did
>>                             not develop the model for this purpose
>>                             but to explain SRT, gravity and the fact
>>                             of inertial mass. The result was then
>>                             that is also fulfils the idea of de
>>                             Broglie. It explains the process of
>>                             diffraction and the relation between
>>                             frequency and energy. - And last time in
>>                             San Diego I have also explained that it
>>                             explains - with some restrictions - the
>>                             photon.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>                                 An electron of defined energy was
>>                                 converted into a photon. The photon
>>                                 was scattered at a proton at extreme
>>                                 small angles (so almost no influence)
>>                                 and then re-converted into an
>>                                 electron-positron pair. This pair was
>>                                 measured and it reproduced quite
>>                                 exactly (by better than 2 percent)
>>                                 the energy of the originals electron.
>>                                 This was repeated for electrons of
>>                                 different energies. - I do not see
>>                                 any explanation for this process
>>                                 without the assumption that there was
>>                                 a photon (i.e. a quantum) of a well
>>                                 defined energy, not a light wave.
>>                                 [Albrecht, with my limited
>>                                 brain-time, I do not understand , nor
>>                                 can I dare to explain away
>>                                 everything. But, remember, that
>>                                 literally, millions of optical
>>                                 engineers for two centuries, have
>>                                 been using Huygens-Fresnel’s
>>                                 classical diffraction integral to
>>                                 explain many dozens of optical
>>                                 phenomena and to design and construct
>>                                 innumerable optical instruments
>>                                 (spectroscopes, microscopes,
>>                                 telescopes (including grazing angle
>>                                 X-ray telescope), etc. QM has never
>>                                 succeeded in giving us any simple
>>                                 integral equivalent to HF-integral.
>>                                 That is why all these millions of
>>                                 optical scientists and engineers give
>>                                 only “lip service” to the photon
>>                                 concept and happily and successfully
>>                                 keep on using the HF integral! My
>>                                 prediction is that this will remain
>>                                 so for quite a while into the future.
>>
>>                             I again refer to my particle model as
>>                             said above. It explains all the known
>>                             optical phenomena.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>                                 Let us recall that neither Newtonian,
>>                                 nor Einsteinian  Gravity can predict
>>                                 the measured distribution of
>>                                 velocities of stars against the
>>                                 radial distance in hundreds of
>>                                 galaxies; even though they are
>>                                 excellent within our solar system.
>>                                 However, Huygens postulate (Newton’s
>>                                 contemporary) of wave propagation
>>                                 model of leveraging some tension
>>                                 field still lives-on remarkably well.
>>                                 This significance should be noted by
>>                                 particle physicists!].
>>
>>                             I do not see what in detail is not
>>                             postulated regarding the stars observed.
>>                             My model also explains phenomena like
>>                             Dark Matter and Dark Energy if you mean
>>                             this. And my model of gravity (which is
>>                             an  extension of the Lorentzian
>>                             relativity to GRT) is since 13 years in
>>                             the internet, and since 12 years it is
>>                             uninterruptedly the no. one regarding the
>>                             explanation of gravitation (if looking
>>                             for "The Origin of Gravity" by Google).
>>                             Maybe worth to read it.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>                                 How does this fit into your
>>                                 understanding?
>>
>>                                 Best wishes
>>                                 Albrecht
>>
>>                                 PS: Can I find your book "Causal
>>                                 Physics" online?
>>
>>                                 Am 26.07.2017 um 18:52 schrieb
>>                                 Roychoudhuri, Chandra:
>>
>>                                     Wolf:
>>
>>                                     You have said it well:
>>
>>                                     /“Concentrating on finding the
>>                                     mechanisms of connection between
>>                                     the Hallucination and the reality
>>                                     is my approach. I think the
>>                                     constant speed of light
>>                                     assumption is one of the first
>>                                     pillars that must fall. If there
>>                                     is such a constant it should in
>>                                     my opinion be interpreted as the
>>                                     speed of Now…”. /
>>
>>                                     Yes, “constant c” is a
>>                                     fundamentally flawed postulate by
>>                                     the theoretician Einstein, so
>>                                     fond of “Gedanken Experiments”.
>>                                     Unfortunately, one can cook up
>>                                     wide varieties of logically
>>                                     self-consistent mathematical
>>                                     theories and then match them up
>>                                     with “Gedanken” experiments! We
>>                                     know that in the real world, we
>>                                     know that the velocity of light
>>                                     is dictated by both the medium
>>                                     and the velocity of the medium.
>>                                     Apparently, Einstein’s “Gedanken
>>                                     Experiment” of riding the crest
>>                                     of a light wave inspired him to
>>                                     construct SRT and sold all the
>>                                     mathematical physicists that
>>                                     nature if 4-diemsional. Out of
>>                                     the “Messiah Complex”, we now
>>                                     believe that the universe could
>>                                     be 5, or, 7, or 11, or, 13, ….
>>                                     dimensional system where many of
>>                                     the dimensions are “folded in”
>>                                     !!!! By the way, running time is
>>                                     not a measurable physical
>>                                     parameter. We can contract or
>>                                     dilate frequency of diverse
>>                                     oscillators, using proper
>>                                     physical influence, not the
>>                                     running time. Frequency of
>>                                     oscillators help us measure a
>>                                     period (or time interval).
>>
>>                                     Wise human thinkers have
>>                                     recognized this “Hallucination”
>>                                     problem from ancient times, which
>>                                     are obvious (i) from Asian
>>                                     perspective of how five blinds
>>                                     can collaborate to construct a
>>                                     reasonable model of the Cosmic
>>                                     Elephant and then keep on
>>                                     iterating the model ad infinitum,
>>                                     or (ii) Western perspective of
>>                                     “shadows of external objects
>>                                     projected inside a cave wall”.
>>                                     Unfortunately, we become
>>                                     “groupies” of our contemporary
>>                                     “messiahs” to survive
>>                                     economically and feel “belonging
>>                                     to the sociaety”. The result is
>>                                     the current sad state of moribund
>>                                     physics thinking. Fortunately,
>>                                     many people have started
>>                                     challenging this moribund status
>>                                     quo with papers, books, and web
>>                                     forums.
>>
>>                                     So, I see well-recognizable
>>                                     renaissance in physics coming
>>                                     within a few decades! Yes, it
>>                                     will take time. Einstein’s
>>                                     “indivisible quanta” of 1905
>>                                     still dominates our vocabulary;
>>                                     even though no optical engineer
>>                                     ever try to propagate an
>>                                     “indivisible quanta”; they always
>>                                     propagate light waves.
>>                                     Unfortunately, they propagate
>>                                     Fourier monochromatic modes that
>>                                     neither exits in nature; nor is a
>>                                     causal signal. [I have been
>>                                     trying to correct this
>>                                     fundamental confusion through my
>>                                     book, “Causal Physics”.]
>>
>>                                     Coming back to our methodology of
>>                                     thinking, I have defined an
>>                                     iterative approach in the Ch.12
>>                                     of the above book. I have now
>>                                     generalized the approach by
>>                                     anchoring our sustainable
>>                                     evolution to remain anchored with
>>                                     the reality of nature! “Urgency
>>                                     of Evolution Process Congruent
>>                                     Thinking” [see attached].
>>
>>                                     However, one can immediately
>>                                     bring a challenge. If all our
>>                                     interpretations are cooked up by
>>                                     our neural network for survival;
>>                                     then who has the authority to
>>                                     define objective reality?
>>                                     Everybody, but collaboratively,
>>                                     like modeling the “Cosmic Elephant”.
>>
>>                                     Let us realize the fact that the
>>                                     seeing “color” is an
>>                                     interpretation by the brain. It
>>                                     is a complete figment of our
>>                                     neuro-genetic interpretation!
>>                                     That is why none of us will
>>                                     succeed in quantitatively
>>                                     defining the subtlety of color
>>                                     variation of any magnificent
>>                                     color painting without a
>>                                     quantitative spectrometer. The
>>                                     “color” is not an objective
>>                                     parameter; but the frequency is
>>                                     (not wavelength, though!). One
>>                                     can now recognize the subtle
>>                                     difference, from seeing “color”,
>>                                     to */quantifying energy content
>>                                     per frequency interval./* This is
>>                                     “objective” science determined by
>>                                     instruments without a “mind”,
>>                                     which is reproducible outside of
>>                                     human interpretations.
>>
>>                                     And, we have already mastered
>>                                     this technology quite a bit. The
>>                                     biosphere exists. It has been
>>                                     nurturing biological lives for
>>                                     over 3.5 billion years without
>>                                     the intervention of humans. We
>>                                     are a very late product of this
>>                                     evolution. This is an objective
>>                                     recognition on our part! Our,
>>                                     successful evolution needed
>>                                     “instantaneous color” recognition
>>                                     to survive for our day-to-day
>>                                     living in our earlier stage. We
>>                                     have now overcome our survival
>>                                     mode as a species. And we now
>>                                     have become a pest in the
>>                                     biosphere, instead of becoming
>>                                     the caretaker of it for our own
>>                                     long-term future. */This is the
>>                                     sad break in our wisdom./* This
>>                                     is why I am promoting the
>>                                     concept, “Urgency of Evolution
>>                                     Process Congruent Thinking”. This
>>                                     approach helps generate a common,
>>                                     but perpetually evolving thinking
>>                                     platform for all thinkers,
>>                                     whether working to understand
>>                                     Nature’s Engineering (Physics,
>>                                     Chemistry, Biology, etc.) or, to
>>                                     carry out our Social Engineering
>>                                     (Economics, Politics, Religions,
>>                                     etc.).
>>
>>                                     Sincerely,
>>
>>                                     Chandra.
>>
>>                                     *From:*General
>>                                     [mailto:general-bounces+chandra.roychoudhuri=uconn.edu at lists.natureoflightandparticles.org]*On
>>                                     Behalf Of *Wolfgang Baer
>>                                     *Sent:* Wednesday, July 26, 2017
>>                                     12:40 AM
>>                                     *To:*
>>                                     general at lists.natureoflightandparticles.org
>>                                     <mailto:general at lists.natureoflightandparticles.org>
>>                                     *Subject:* Re: [General] Role of
>>                                     observer, a deeper path to
>>                                     introspection
>>
>>                                     Chandra:
>>
>>                                     Unfortunately the TED talk does
>>                                     not work on my machine but the
>>                                     transcript is available and Anl
>>                                     Seth states what many people
>>                                     studying the human psyche as well
>>                                     as eastern philosophy have said
>>                                     for centuries , Yes we are
>>                                     Hallucinating reality and our
>>                                     physics is built upon that
>>                                     hallucination, but it works so
>>                                     well, or does it?
>>
>>                                     However  as Don Hoffmancognitive
>>                                     scientist UC Irvine  contends
>>                                     https://www.ted.com/talks/donald_hoffman_do_we_see_reality_as_it_is
>>
>>                                     What we see is like the icons on
>>                                     a computer screen, a file icon
>>                                     may only be a symbol of what is
>>                                     real on the disk, but these icons
>>                                     as well as the "hallucinations"
>>                                     are connected to some reality and
>>                                     we must take them seriously.
>>                                     Deleting the icon also deletes
>>                                     the disk which may have
>>                                     disastrous consequences.
>>
>>                                     For our discussion group it means
>>                                     we can take Albrechts route and
>>                                     try to understand the universe
>>                                     and photons first based upon the
>>                                     idea that it is independently
>>                                     real and then solve the human
>>                                     consciousness problem or we can
>>                                     take the opposite approach and
>>                                     rebuild a  physics without the
>>                                     independent physical reality
>>                                     assumption and see if we cannot
>>                                     build out a truly macroscopic
>>                                     quantum theory. Concentrating on
>>                                     finding the mechanisms of
>>                                     connection between the
>>                                     Hallucination and the reality is
>>                                     my approach. I think the constant
>>                                     speed of light assumption is one
>>                                     of the first pillars that must
>>                                     fall. If there is such a constant
>>                                     it should in my opinion be
>>                                     interpreted as the speed of Now ,
>>                                     a property we individually apply
>>                                     to all our observations.
>>
>>                                     best
>>
>>                                     Wolf
>>
>>                                     Dr. Wolfgang Baer
>>
>>                                     Research Director
>>
>>                                     Nascent Systems Inc.
>>
>>                                     tel/fax 831-659-3120/0432
>>
>>                                     E-mailwolf at NascentInc.com
>>                                     <mailto:wolf at NascentInc.com>
>>
>>                                     On 7/23/2017 2:44 PM,
>>                                     Roychoudhuri, Chandra wrote:
>>
>>                                         Dear colleagues:
>>
>>                                         Lately there has been
>>                                         continuing discussion on the
>>                                         role of observer and the
>>                                         reality. I view that to be
>>                                         healthy.
>>
>>                                         We must guide ourselves to
>>                                         understand and model the
>>                                         universe without human mind
>>                                         shaping the cosmic system and
>>                                         its working rules. This
>>                                         suggestion comes from the
>>                                         fact that our own logic puts
>>                                         the universe to be at least
>>                                         13 billion years old, while
>>                                         we, in the human form, have
>>                                         started evolving barely 5
>>                                         million years ago (give or
>>                                         take).
>>
>>                                         However, we are not smart
>>                                         enough to determine a
>>                                         well-defined and decisive
>>                                         path, as yet. Our search must
>>                                         accommodate perpetual
>>                                         iteration of thinking
>>                                         strategy as we keep on
>>                                         advancing. This is well
>>                                         justified in the following
>>                                         TED-talk.
>>
>>                                         Enjoy:
>>
>>                                         https://www.ted.com/talks/anil_seth_how_your_brain_hallucinates_your_conscious_reality?utm_source=newsletter_weekly_2017-07-22&utm_campaign=newsletter_weekly&utm_medium=email&utm_content=talk_of_the_week_image
>>
>>                                         Chandra.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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