[General] Compton and de Broglie wavelength the "error"

[Andrew Meulenberg]

Dear Andre,

Having glanced thru your paper, I see that you may have answers to some
questions that I have had. Some other questions may be important to you.

On Sat, Nov 25, 2017 at 3:49 PM, André Michaud <srp2 at srpinc.org> wrote:

> Hi Andrew,
>
> I have been thinking on your comment: "*However, I have not seen anything
> written on a possible connection between intrinsic spin and the deBroglie
> wavelength (or frequency).*"
>
> Thinking about it, frequency and wavelength describe the observed and
> measurable "oscillating behavior" of energy, frequency being the number of
> time a quantum will complete its EM cycle per second, while the wavelength
> is the distance the quantum can cover during one such cycle at its natural
> velocity.
>
You have here the answer to part of the problem of the deBroglie
wavelength. The rest of the problem involves which cycle is important. I
would contend that it is the precession of its spin vector. This requires
the assumptions that 1) all particles have, or are composed of particles
that have, spin and charge and that 2) relativistic contraction causes a
torque, which will cause the precession with a frequency dependent on the
velocity and inversely on the mass  (I haven't yet determined if this model
works for compound particles and mixed masses. However, since Compton
frequencies work by summing mixed masses, it could be expected that summing
spin angular momenta would work also.)


> Spin on its part has to do with how EM particles relate to each other,
> either parallel spin alignment or antiparallel spin alignment. Parallel
> spin alignment is related to repulsion between particles while antiparallel
> spin alignment, which is associated to covalent bounding and orbital pair
> filling, is related to attraction.
>
This raises the point about how 2 randomly oriented particles always
have parallel spin alignment or antiparallel spin alignment. It can't
happen in 3-space. However, if the intrinsic spin axis is primarily aligned
along the time axis then parallel or antiparallel spin alignment is
natural. Since leptons are bound photons, any lepton velocity, v, will
introduce relativistic effects that appear as a torque which will cause
precession (with a velocity-dependent frequency) about the velocity vector.
Thus, the deBroglie wavelength is the distance traveled during a single
precession cycle of the spin axis.

My model further assumes that all particles are, or are composed of,
leptons. Thus, in agreement with your statement in the paper, all nucleons
are composed of relativistic lepton triads (i.e., quarks). Since charge may
be a consequence of spin direction, and attraction or repulsion is
independent of spin up or down, there are consequences of this assumption
that I have not fully explored.


> We know that this is not due to electric charges, because 2 electrons
> (same sign of electric charges by definition, thus electrically repelling)
> can be joined in covalent pairs by antiparallel spin alignment, so this
> leaves only the magnetic aspect of the energy making up the substance of
> the electron mass to be related to spin.
>
This answers my question above about the consequences.


> This is examplified by this experiment carried out by Kotler et al. in
> 2014 with two electrons from two different atoms forced to interact in
> parallel magnetic spin alignment, which reveals the inverse cube
> interaction involved, which is different from the inverse square electric
> interacton:
>
> https://www.nature.com/articles/nature13403.epdf?referrer_access_token=
> yoC6RXrPyxwvQviChYrG0tRgN0jAjWel9jnR3ZoTv0PdPJ4geER1fKVR1YXH
> 8GThqECstdb6e48mZm0qQo2OMX_XYURkzBSUZCrxM8VipvnG8FofxB39P4lc-1UIKEO1
>
> From my understanding, magnetic spin and charges have to do with the
> nature of the "substance" that electromagnetic energy is, while frequency
> and wavelength have to do with the nature of its "oscillating behavior".
>
I may agree here; however, I would suggest that the "oscillating behavior"
is precession based and therefore rotational.


> This would be my 2 cents contribution to your other comment: "*I hope
> that some others in the group, who have more ease with mathematics than I,
> will be able to contribute to this development.*".
>
> By the way, I don`t feel particulary mathematically apt either. I think we
> each become more familiar with what part of math we needed to clarify
> issues we were interested in in the past.
>
I agree. I have also come to the conclusion that physicists sometimes make
assumptions to simplify the math and then try to fit the physics to the
assumptions. This can lead to major problems.

More comments on your paper later.

Best regards,

Andrew M.


> Best Regards
> ---
> André Michaud
> GSJournal admin
> http://www.gsjournal.net/
> http://www.srpinc.org/
>
> On Sat, 25 Nov 2017 11:12:28 -0500, Andrew Meulenberg wrote:
>
> Dear Chip and all,
>
> Thank you for the deBroglie paper. It surprised me in several ways.
>
>    1. The biggest surprise was that the word *wavelength* does not appear
>    at all.
>       - even tho lambda appears in eq 1, it is not defined. So,
>       - while it may have been modesty or lost in translation, wavelength
>       was not important for his story.
>    2. deBroglie emphasized frequency and the, now near-universal, use of
>    deBrogle wavelength rather than frequency was a convenience for
>    experimentalists.
>    3. deBroglie talks of the wave as being 'physical' (unlike that of the
>    wave function of QM), yet as far as I could tell, he does not mention what
>    is 'waving'.
>    4. The word *spin* does not appear in the paper.
>       - deBroglie's original work evolved at the same time at the concept
>       of spin and therefore, as a thesis, would likely not include such esoterica.
>       - the fact that this present (1970) paper does not include spin (as
>       a potential source of the frequency) in a relativity and QM-driven paper
>       appears inexcusable.
>       - However, that apparent 'failure' is based on my concept that the
>       physical 'wave' is a relativistic effect driving the precession of the
>       physical spin vector.
>       - The nearly 50 years since 1970 has produced many changes.
>       However, I have not seen anything written on a possible connection between
>       intrinsic spin and the deBroglie wavelength (or frequency).
>
> The concept of an electron being a bound photon feeds the information base
> on spin and its implications. I hope that some others in the group, who
> have more ease with mathematics than I, will be able to contribute to this
> development.
>
> Andrew M.
> ._________________
>
> On Fri, Nov 24, 2017 at 6:36 PM, Chip Akins <chipakins at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Andre
>>
>>
>>
>> I don’t know if you have read this, I suspect you have.
>>
>> Attached is de Broglie’s “The Reinterpretation of Wave Mechanics”.
>>
>>
>>
>> Chip
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* General [mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=
>> gmail.com at lists.natureoflightandparticles.org] *On Behalf Of *André
>> Michaud
>> *Sent:* Friday, November 24, 2017 4:54 PM
>> *To:* general at lists.natureoflightandparticles.org
>> *Subject:* Re: [General] Compton and de Broglie wavelengththe "error"
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi Albrecht,
>>
>> It seems that you "assume" that de Broglie deduced his wave from
>> considerations about relativity.
>>
>> To my knowledge, this is not the case.
>>
>> If you can substanciate your claim by referring us to a verifiable text
>> from de Broglie that explains his deduction from SR, this would be greatly
>> appreciated. I am still in learning mode.
>>
>> Best Regards ---
>> André Michaud
>> GSJournal admin
>> http://www.gsjournal.net/
>> http://www.srpinc.org/
>>
>> On Fri, 24 Nov 2017 23:25:09 +0100, Albrecht Giese wrote:
>>
>> Hi André, Chip, and all,
>>
>> if we discuss de Broglie's concept of a particle wave, we should in my
>> view refer to his original work and not to others who have used the results
>> (well understood or misunderstood) in other applications.
>>
>> So, de Broglie in original:
>>
>>
>>
>> It is of course correct that de Broglie did not just “assume” his wave
>> but he has deduced it from considerations about relativity. But his
>> deduction is based on a severe error as I have explained in detail earlier.
>> So, let’s do it again.
>>
>> De Broglie has seen a logical conflict between the Einstein- Planck
>> relation (1) E=h*frequency and (2) relativistic dilation; because according
>> to (1) the frequency has to increase at motion and according to (2)
>> dilation will cause the frequency to decrease. But his concern is an error
>> as this conflict does not exist. Because we have to look at an interaction
>> of particles, which is the relevant situation. Any interaction sees
>> frequencies which are increased by the Doppler effect. And the Doppler
>> effect gives an over-compensation of the normal relativistic slow down so
>> that both frequencies above will fit on their own. The same result is
>> achieved if the temporal Lorentz transformation is properly applied. - For
>> de Broglie's new wave no justification exists at all.
>>
>> The comment of two of you that a single electron does not produce an
>> interference pattern is of course correct. One electron only produces one
>> dot on the screen. But if we assume that a bunch of electron flies to the
>> multi-slit with same speed then the argument works. There will be an
>> interference pattern behind the multi-slit. But if we transform the
>> experiment into the frame of the electrons then the momentum of the
>> electrons is zero, and so the wavelength is infinite, and seen from that
>> frame no interference pattern can occur. But it does occur, also visible
>> for a co-moving observer, and that shows that de Broglie's idea is
>> erroneous. - I have shown in calculations (but not in this place) why under
>> certain circumstances the impression occurs that de Broglie is correct. But
>> in general it is wrong. De Broglie's approach violates Galileo's relativity
>> as well as Lorentzian relativity.
>>
>> You have mentioned the good results of the use of the de Broglie wave to
>> determine the quantization of atomic orbits. It is true that it works, but
>> it has a similar problem like for the scattering of electrons. Assume a
>> hydrogen atom moving into axial direction with a similar speed as the speed
>> of the electrons in the orbits. Then the resulting momentum of the orbiting
>> electrons increases by about 40% seen from the frame at rest. So the de
>> Broglie wavelength has to decrease by this factor and the energy of these
>> states has to change accordingly. But in practice there will be a much
>> smaller energy change. So also in this case de Broglie fails at a more
>> thorough look.
>>
>> In the mails there have been some considerations about what de Broglie
>> did "have in mind". But what he had in mind he has written in his PhD
>> thesis. Anything about the energy states of atoms came later and by others
>> (like Schrödinger and Bohr).
>>
>> Now I will be wondering about objecting arguments.
>>
>> Albrecht
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> I thank you for your answers and arguments. I will now answer to it, of
>> course. Which means to repeat my arguments of the last three weeks here
>> where I have given argument which seem to have been overlooked.
>>
>>
>>
>> Am 24.11.2017 um 01:20 schrieb Richard Gauthier:
>>
>> Hi John,André, Chip and all,
>>
>> Deriving the de Broglie wavelength of an electron model without
>> superluminal motion is easy (in hindsight, since de Broglie did it using
>> special relativity.) But try getting, without superluminal motion, the
>> spin-1 of a non-pointlike photon model (for a photon-in-a-box or otherwise)
>> AND the spin-1/2 of a highly relativistic non-pointlike electron model. In
>> either case there will be some longitudinal momentum Plong, at light speed
>> for a photon model and at very near light speed for a highly relativistic
>> electron model, as well as some significant locally transverse linear
>> momentum Ptrans (even if the net transverse linear momentum of the photon
>> model is zero as in the double-helix photon model) that generates spin Sz =
>> R x Ptrans = 1 hbar for a photon model or 1/2 hbar for a highly
>> relativistic electron model . A longitudinal light-speed or
>> near-light-speed linear momentum vector plus a significant local transverse
>> linear momentum vector gives a diagonal local linear momentum vector with a
>> corresponding diagonal velocity vector whose magnitude is greater than c.
>> Putting a photon model’s or electron model's transverse oscillatory motion,
>> that generates its spin, into two different transverse dimensional spaces
>> is ingenious, but if the photon is to move along longitudinally as a whole
>> and not leave the two transverse dimensional spaces behind, I think there
>> will still be some diagonal superluminal motion. I would be happy to see a
>> proved counterexample.
>>
>> Richard
>>
>>
>>
>> On Nov 23, 2017, at 12:19 PM, John Williamson <
>> John.Williamson at glasgow.ac.uk> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi Richard and everyone,
>>
>> You do not need to add anything. "Superluminal" is not needed. If you
>> consider light-in-a-box (including light in a box of its own making) the de
>> Broglie wavelength follows from the beat frequencies of the proper
>> relativistic transformations of the light going with the motion and that
>> going against. Remeber, one needs to consider BOTH the Doppler shift AND
>> the SR transformations. Then everything works. Martin is writing a
>> definitive paper on this.
>>
>>
>>
>> Regards, John.
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> *From:*General [general-bounces+john.williams
>> on=glasgow.ac.uk at lists.natureoflightandparticles.org] on behalf of
>> Richard Gauthier [richgauthier at gmail.com]
>> *Sent:*Thursday, November 23, 2017 6:36 PM
>> *To:*srp2 at srpinc.org; Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion
>> *Subject:*Re: [General] Compton and de Broglie wavelengththe "error"
>>
>> Hello André, Chip, John and all,
>>
>>
>> I also think that there is “an additional factor” that settles an
>> electron into an atomic resonant state. In my view the electron is composed
>> of this additional factor, a charged superluminal energy quantum that
>> circulates and generates quantum waves having the de Broglie wavelength.
>> These quantum waves self-resonate in regions around an atomic nucleus. When
>> an available resonant region around an atomic nucleus is found, the
>> superluminal energy quantum settles into this region and continues to emit
>> quantum waves that for some period of time maintain it in this resonance
>> state in the atom. The electron is more likely to be detected wherever the
>> amplitude of this resonant state (the electron’s eigenfunction for this
>> state) is larger. This idea is not fully developed but is hinted at in “Transluminal
>> Energy Quantum Model of a Spin-½ Charged Photon Composing an Electron”,“Electrons
>> Are Spin-½Charged Photons Generating the de Broglie Wavelength”,“The
>> Charged-Photon Model of the Electron Fits the Schrödinger Equation”and “The
>> Charged-Photon Model of the Electron, the de Broglie Wavelength, and a New
>> Interpretation of Quantum Mechanics" athttps://richardgauthier.acad
>> emia.edu/research#papers. What I called a charged photon in theses
>> articles I am now calling a charged half-photon.
>>
>> Richard
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Nov 23, 2017, at 8:52 AM, André Michaud <srp2 at srpinc.org> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi Chip, and all
>>
>> You write: "*I prefer the second option, there is some additional factor
>> interacting with the electron, to cause these quantized orbitals, and
>> understand from Andre’s writings that he feels the same way.*"
>>
>> You are exactly right about what I think. I came to the same conclusion
>> as yourself (the second option) way back in fact when I finally lighted up
>> to the fact that the wave function originally was related to electrons
>> orbitals by Schrödinger because he was inspired in this direction by a
>> conclusion of de Broglie that electrons had to be captive in some form of
>> resonance state about nuclei.
>>
>> I think that this was sort of lost sight of in the community due to the
>> acrimonious debate that raged on afterwards between the proponents of the
>> Copenhagen school and the determinists, which indeed was fundamentally
>> whether the first or second option applied in physical reality.
>>
>> After I came to the second option conclusion, I started to look around
>> for descriptions of this resonance state that could be related to the wave
>> function but found nothing, as if the only option that had been explored
>> was the first one, with which the Heisenberg solution was in harmony and
>> also later Feynman's path integral.
>>
>> To me, the idea of "resonance" always made me think of a vibrating guitar
>> string, whose shape and extent of the volume visited by the transversally
>> oscillating string can be described by the wave function.
>>
>> I suspected that this might have been what de Broglie had in mind also,
>> and became convinced that the electron could remain localized while being
>> captive within the theoretical volume defined by the wave function, on an
>> axial resonance trajectory (sort of stochastic maybe to some extent) that
>> may be describable mathematically and that could be due to electric versus
>> magnetic interaction between the electron and the nuclei.
>>
>> I see that you lean in a similar direction Chip. I have explored the
>> possible electric vs magnetic potential explanation to a large extent, but
>> I am at a loss as to how to exactly mathematize the localized resonance
>> trajectory proper within the volume definable by the wave function. You
>> seem to be better equipped mathematically than me to address such an issue,
>> with your¼ de Broglie wavelengthexploration.
>>
>> For a general overview of how the trispatial geometry allows defining
>> this type of electromagnetic electron equilibrium states involving both
>> electric and magnetic aspects of energy, here is my final paper on the
>> whole concept:
>>
>> https://www.omicsonline.org/open-access/gravitation-quantum-
>> mechanics-and-the-least-action-electromagneticequilibr
>> ium-states-2329-6542-1000152.pdf
>>
>> Even though it involves an entirely new paradigm that may feel very
>> unfamiliar at first, I hope it nevertheless makes some sense to you.
>>
>> Best Regards
>>
>> ---
>> André Michaud
>> GSJournal admin
>> http://www.gsjournal.net/
>> http://www.srpinc.org/
>>
>> On Thu, 23 Nov 2017 05:16:52 -0600, "Chip Akins"wrote:
>>
>> Hi All
>>
>>
>>
>> But in all this, regarding de Broglie’s wavelength and the electron
>> orbitals, there is still something missing.
>>
>>
>>
>> Either we have to assume that the electron occupies the entire
>> circumference of the orbital simultaneously by its wavefunction, or there
>> is some additional factor interacting with the electron, to cause these
>> quantized orbitals.
>>
>>
>>
>> I prefer the second option, there is some additional factor interacting
>> with the electron, to cause these quantized orbitals, and understand from
>> Andre’s writings that he feels the same way.
>>
>>
>>
>> In the hydrogen atom there is a simple, naturally occurring cause, for a
>> “matter wave” which is exactly ¼ the de Broglie wavelength. This “matter
>> wave” is a beat frequency created by the perceived frequency difference
>> with motion, of the outer radius and inner radius of the electron as it
>> circulates about the proton. I found this to be interesting, and wanted to
>> share this observation.
>>
>>
>>
>> Chip
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:*General [mailto:general-bounces+chipak
>> ins=gmail.com at lists.natureoflightandparticles.org
>> <general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com at lists.natureoflightandparticles.org>
>> ]*On Behalf Of*André Michaud
>>
>> *Sent:*Wednesday, November 22, 2017 10:52 PM
>> *To:*
>> general at lists.natureoflightandparticles.org
>>
>> *Subject:*Re: [General] Compton and de Broglie wavelengththe "error"
>>
>>
>>
>> Hello John,
>>
>> You are absolutely right.
>>
>>
>> In fact de Broglie derived this relation with respect to the values of
>> the Bohr ground state orbit energy parameters.
>>
>>
>> Heisenberg did the same, except that he formulated the relation so that
>> it could account for a precision drift of the chosen velocity on either
>> side of the selected velocity value about the ground orbit of the Bohr atom.
>>
>>
>> In 1923, he himself expressed his uncertainty principle as delta_x
>> delta_p equal-or-larger-than h, which is the same as delta_x approx_equal
>> to h / (m delta_v_x), which is fundamentally de Broglie's single valued
>> h/mv for the Bohr ground state orbit.
>>
>> This is at the origin of Heisenberg's statistical solution.
>>
>>
>> Best Regards ---
>> André Michaud
>> GSJournal admin
>> http://www.gsjournal.net/
>> http://www.srpinc.org/
>>
>> On Thu, 23 Nov 2017 03:17:31 +0000, John Williamson wrote:
>>
>> Dear Albrecht,
>>
>> Your error is more fundamental than you know. See below in green.
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> *From:*General [general-bounces+john.williams
>> on=glasgow.ac.uk at lists.natureoflightandparticles.org] on behalf of Viv
>> Robinson [viv at universephysics.com]
>> *Sent:*Wednesday, November 22, 2017 10:49 PM
>> *To:*Albrecht Giese; Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion
>> *Subject:*Re: [General] Compton and de Broglie wavelengththe "error"
>>
>>
>>
>> Dear Albrecht,
>>
>>
>>
>> IMHO you have a fundamental flaw in your first paragraph below. A single
>> electron cannot generate an interference pattern, any more than can a
>> single photon. An observer moving with a single electron will, if the
>> screen is angled towards him, see only a single spot where the electron
>> impinged upon that screen. That is all. If he repeats that observation say
>> 10,000 times he will still only see on spot each time the electron impinges
>> upon the screen. If the spots are recorded, each time he travels with
>> another electron he will see an interference image slowly appear because it
>> is dependent upon the frame of reference of the slit and screen. The motion
>> of the observer does not interfere with that pattern.
>>
>>
>>
>> Sincerely
>>
>>
>>
>> Vivian Robinson
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 23 November 2017 at 8:24:21 AM, Albrecht Giese (phys at a-giese.de)
>> wrote:
>>
>> Dear André,
>>
>>
>>
>> the "error" which I see for de Broglie is his assumed relation lambda = h
>> / momentum .
>>
>>
>>
>> Your error, and this is an error not an "error" is that you assume that
>> de Broglie "assumed lambda = h / momentum. Louis de Broglie did not assume
>> lambda = h / momentum - he derived it. From relativity. Please do not
>> assume what you think other people assume. Remember, de Broglie was very
>> smart, and this relation had to come from somewhere, no? It would be
>> instructive for you to understand the how and why he did this before making
>> uninformed comments on it.
>>
>>
>>
>> This relation fails at any linear transformation. Take as an example the
>> scattering of electrons at a multi-slit. If you look at it from the rest
>> frame of the multi-slit then de Broglie's wavelength describes correctly
>> the generated interference pattern. However, if this situation is observed
>> by someone moving at the side of the electron the result is completely
>> wrong. Assume as an extreme situation that the observer moves together with
>> the electron. Then in the frame of the observer the electron has the
>> momentum = 0 and so the wavelength is infinite. This means: no
>> interference! But the pattern does of course not disappear and will be
>> visible to the observer. This shows that de Broglie does not even fulfil
>> Galileo's physical rule of relativity believed and proven since 600 years.
>>
>>
>>
>> Regarding the particle mass: My equation is simple: m = h(bar) / (c*R) ,
>> where R is the radius of the particle. And R can be easily determined by
>> use of the known magnetic momentum of the particle.
>>
>> The mag. momentum of a circling elementary charge is classically: mm =
>> (1/2)*c*e0*R
>>
>> The mag. moment of particles is known. So, R can be determined. This R
>> inserted into the equation above yields the particle mass with an accuracy
>> of about 10-3. - This is now based only on the strong force. If the
>> result is corrected by the influence of the electrical charge, this yields
>> the Landé factor in case of the electron. This applied yields the mass with
>> an accuracy of 2*10-6.
>>
>> References for this are:www.ag-physics.org/rmassand
>> www.ag-physics.org/electron.
>>
>>
>>
>> Hope this explains it. Otherwise please ask.
>>
>> Albrecht
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Am 18.11.2017 um 22:54
>> <http://airmail.calendar/2017-11-18%2022:54:00%20AEST>schrieb André
>> Michaud:
>>
>> Dear Albrecht,
>>
>> I must say that I don't see as "errors" conclusions that were drawn
>> before more precise knowledge was discovered. For example, I don't think
>> that Newton made an "error" by not immediately concluding to the
>> possibility the fixed velocity of light. He simply did not know about it
>> because this had not yet been discovered.
>>
>> The same for de Broglie in my opinion, he worked with the knowledge
>> available a the time.
>>
>> As i understand it, what we call the de Broglie wave is simply a
>> representation of the sum of the energies of the rest mass of the electron
>> plus the translational energy related to its momentum. How can this be
>> wrong at the general level, unless I misunderstand the whole concept?
>>
>> As for Hönl and the mass of the electron, I was meaning this
>> rhetorically. I simply mean that any solution that exactly provides the
>> exact mass of the electron as experimentally measured by numerous means can
>> only be a proper description, so your description has to be correct. The
>> exact mass of the electron has been experimentally confirmed for over 1
>> century. I do not know where to look to examine your solution. Can you
>> provide a link?
>>
>> ---
>> André Michaud
>> GSJournal admin
>> http://www.gsjournal.net/
>> http://www.srpinc.org/
>>
>> *On Sat, 18 Nov 2017 21:56:34 +0100*
>> <http://airmail.calendar/2017-11-19%2006:56:34%20AEST>*, Albrecht Giese
>> wrote:*
>>
>> Dear André,
>>
>> there is no doubt that de Broglie has made great contributions to the
>> development of physics. So, if there is an anniversary in honour of him and
>> even the Nobel price, then as many as possible of his achievements are of
>> course presented.
>>
>>
>>
>> My concern, however, refers to a specific result of his early activities.
>> The assumed necessity to introduce the "harmony of waves" and to deduce the
>> "de Broglie" wavelength are based on a logical error and on a
>> misunderstanding of SR.
>>
>>
>>
>> It is a quite funny situation that in spite of this error his result
>> seems usable to explain certain physical processes. It is one goal of my
>> physical activities to understand this. In one fundamental case I have
>> found an explanation. That is the scattering of electrons at a double /
>> multiple slit. If such experiment is viewed from a specific inertial frame
>> (the one normally used), de Brolgie's calculation conforms to the
>> measurement. However in any other frame it fails. - I can explain why the
>> de Broglie wave seems to work even though it is erroneous. (Not here but I
>> can give you a reference if you want it.)
>>
>>
>>
>> Regarding Hönl I do not understand what you say. Hönl did NOT get a
>> correct mass by assuming only the electrical force in the electron. He was
>> wrong by a factor of about 300 as I wrote earlier. But the calculation
>> which I did is correct with high precision and the formula does not have
>> any free parameters, only the standard ones. I do not know any other model
>> which has this. Do you? Then please give me a reference.
>>
>>
>>
>> Best regards
>> Albrecht
>>
>>
>>
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