<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=windows-1252"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Chip, <div class=""> Could you please also answer the short questions below about your electron model, that I put to John and Martin about their electron model. This might turn into a small survey about features in common or different among the various photon-based models of the electron.Thanks.</div><div class=""> By the way, I learned that Martin Rivas who also has a Dirac related electron model is following me on ResearchGate. John W. knows his work also. Rivas has a speed-of-light trajectory of a helically circulating point charge in his electron model.</div><div class=""> Richard</div><div class=""><br class=""><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Mar 8, 2015, at 8:23 PM, Richard Gauthier <<a href="mailto:richgauthier@gmail.com" class="">richgauthier@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;">John and Martin,</div><div class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"> I have a few basic questions about your electron model that I don’t think are answered in your paper. Short answers are OK, if possible. Longer answers or explanations are welcome.</div><div class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;">My first set of questions: What is the spin of the circulating photon with toroidal topology in your model? Is it spin 1 hbar even though your electron model has spin 1/2 hbar? If so, is this spin 1 hbar of your electron model’s photon observable? If not, in what sense does this circulating photon have spin 1 hbar?</div><div class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"> My second set of questions: Does the circulating photon with toroidal topology move along a helical trajectory when the electron model has velocity v perpendicular to the plane of its circulating photon’s closed circle trajectory when at rest? If so, does the radius of this helical trajectory continue to be hbar/2mc (the same as for your resting electron model) as the electron model's speed increases, or does the radius of this helical trajectory change with electron speed by some factor? Does the circulating photon’s frequency of circulation increase in proportion to the total energy E=gamma mc^2 of the electron? If so, does the circulating photon's wavelength correspondingly decrease inversely proportional to gamma? If not, how does the photon’s frequency depend on the electron model’s velocity?</div><div class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"> with warm regards,</div><div class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"> Richard</div><div class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"> </div><br class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><div style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Mar 7, 2015, at 4:43 AM, John Duffield <<a href="mailto:johnduffield@btconnect.com" class="">johnduffield@btconnect.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class="" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><div class="" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri;"><div class="">John:</div><div class=""> </div><div class="">Not good. I’m afraid there’s a lot more censorship around than people appreciate.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></div><div class=""> </div><div class="">By the way, <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a title="http://www.amazon.co.uk/Science-Fiction-Phony-Particle-Physics/dp/1888820810/ref=tmm_pap_title_0?ie=UTF8&qid=1425732021&sr=1-1" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/Science-Fiction-Phony-Particle-Physics/dp/1888820810/ref=tmm_pap_title_0?ie=UTF8&qid=1425732021&sr=1-1" class="">the phony side of particle physics</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>was interesting reading.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></div><div class=""> </div><div class="">Regards</div><div class="">John</div><div class=""> </div><div class="" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri;"></div><div class="" style="font-size: small; text-decoration: none; font-family: Calibri; font-weight: normal; font-style: normal; display: inline;"><div class="" style="font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-family: tahoma;"><div class=""> </div><div class="" style="background-color: rgb(245, 245, 245);"><div class=""><b class="">From:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a title="John.Williamson@glasgow.ac.uk" href="mailto:John.Williamson@glasgow.ac.uk" class="">John Williamson</a></div><div class=""><b class="">Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Saturday, March 07, 2015 6:06 AM</div><div class=""><b class="">To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a title="general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" class="">Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion</a></div><div class=""><b class="">Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [General] double-loop electron model discussion</div></div></div><div class=""> </div></div><div class="" style="font-size: small; text-decoration: none; font-family: Calibri; font-weight: normal; font-style: normal; display: inline;"><div class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: tahoma; direction: ltr;">Hihi .. look what I just got from arxiv ...<br class=""><br class=""><div id="divSn" class="divSn divTx" style="right: 195px;"><span id="spnFrom" title="moderation@arxiv.org" class="rwRRO" _ao="3" _em="moderation@arxiv.org" _rt="SMTP" _dn="arXiv Moderation" _fjnk="1" _e_oncontextmenu="onRwCm(event);" _e_onclick="onClkRcp(event);" _e_ondblclick="onDblClkReadRcp(event);">arXiv Moderation [<a href="mailto:moderation@arxiv.org" class="">moderation@arxiv.org</a>]</span></div><div id="divActionIcons" class="" style="right: 75px;"><img id="imgReplyIcon" title="Reply" class="csimg csimgbg sprites-replyActive-png" src="x-msg://14/" style="left: 0px;"><img id="imgReplyAllIcon" title="Reply All" class="csimg csimgbg sprites-replyAllActive-png" src="x-msg://14/"><img id="imgForwardIcon" title="Forward" class="csimg csimgbg sprites-forwardActive-png" src="x-msg://14/" style="right: 0px;"></div><div id="divActions" class="" style="width: 55px;"><span id="spnActions" class="">Actions</span><img class="csimg csimgbg sprites-dwn-png" src="x-msg://14/"></div><div id="divSelDisplay" class=""><div id="divRws" class=""><div id="divWellTo" class="roWellRow"><div id="divToL" class="roWellLabel pvwLabel" style="width: 16px;"><span class="nowrap">To:</span></div><div class="roWellWrap"><div id="divFieldTo" class="wellField"><div id="divTo" class="rwW rwWRO"> <span id="spnR" title="John.Williamson@glasgow.ac.uk" class="rwRRO" _ao="2" _em="/O=GLASGOW UNIVERSITY/OU=EXCHANGE ADMINISTRATIVE GROUP (FYDIBOHF23SPDLT)/CN=RECIPIENTS/CN=Jgw2r" _rt="EX" _e_oncontextmenu="onRwCm(event);" _e_onclick="onClkRcp(event);" _e_ondblclick="onDblClkReadRcp(event);" _rf="0">John Williamson</span> </div></div></div></div></div><div id="divExpSubHdr" class=""><div id="divSubFs" class=""><div id="divFs" class=""><div class="divTx"> </div></div></div><div id="divSubSent" class=""><span id="spnSent" class="">Friday, March 06, 2015 7:24 PM</span></div></div></div><font size="2" class=""><span class="" style="font-size: 10pt;">Your submission has been removed upon a notice from our moderators, who determined it inappropriate for arXiv. Our moderators suggest that you please send your paper to a conventional journal instead. <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""><br class="">Please do not resubmit this paper without contacting moderation for permission, and obtaining a positive response. Resubmission of removed papers may result in suspension of submission privileges.<br class=""><br class="">For more information on our moderation policies see:<br class=""><br class=""> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://arxiv.org/help/moderation" target="_blank" class="">http://arxiv.org/help/moderation</a><br class=""><br class="">--<br class="">arXiv moderation</span></font><br class=""><div class="" style="font-size: 16px; font-family: 'times new roman';"><hr tabindex="-1" class=""><div id="divRpF847897" class="" style="direction: ltr;"><font size="2" face="Tahoma" class=""><b class="">From:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>General [<a href="mailto:general-bounces+john.williamson=glasgow.ac.uk@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" class="">general-bounces+john.williamson=glasgow.ac.uk@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>] on behalf of John Williamson [<a href="mailto:John.Williamson@glasgow.ac.uk" class="">John.Williamson@glasgow.ac.uk</a>]<br class=""><b class="">Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Saturday, March 07, 2015 6:03 AM<br class=""><b class="">To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion<br class=""><b class="">Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [General] double-loop electron model discussion<br class=""></font><br class=""></div><div class=""></div><div class=""><div class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: tahoma; direction: ltr;">Good for you Richard,<br class=""><br class="">That is a very good starting point for discussion. The reason Dirac did not model the electron as a charged object, however, was that he was aware that this would produce problems for a light- speed object, not that he missed something. Photons are not charged - this is (for me) part of the essential difference between photons and electrons (the other is the fermionic aspect). This needs to come out of a proper theory, or model, not be put in a-priori. While I am proud of Martin and my old model (in that it both derives charge and half-integral spin), it is by no means the whole story two decades later. I think it is unproductive to argue too much about what the old models do or do not mean. The electron is no more, simply, a localised photon, than the photon is a pure overlap state of a couple of electrons. We need to develop the new theory to explain both photon and electron from first principles, deriving both charge and fermions from bosons - and explaining why the basic fermions can carry charge, whereas (the W's notwithstanding) wheres the rest-massless boson does not. I do not think the W or the Z are "fundamental" either, but their properties should (equally) emerge from the proper theory that Martin and I are working on.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""><br class="">Also the statements of Hestenes and Rivas, are not "results" in the experimental sense, but theoretical speculations. They cannot and must not be taken as god given. I'm hoping to write a proper explanation of some of the seminal experiments on the experimental point properties of the electron later this weekend. I was lucky enough to have been the actual person who carried out (two sets of the actual) seminal experiments on this decades ago. It is about time I explained it properly with the references - and hope to have a go at this within this discussion forum if I can muster the time or energy to make a proper job of it.<br class=""><br class="">Regards, John.<br class=""><div class="" style="font-size: 16px; font-family: 'times new roman';"><hr tabindex="-1" class=""><div id="divRpF7948" class="" style="direction: ltr;"><font size="2" face="Tahoma" class=""><b class="">From:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>General [<a href="mailto:general-bounces+john.williamson=glasgow.ac.uk@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" class="">general-bounces+john.williamson=glasgow.ac.uk@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>] on behalf of Richard Gauthier [<a href="mailto:richgauthier@gmail.com" class="">richgauthier@gmail.com</a>]<br class=""><b class="">Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Saturday, March 07, 2015 5:42 AM<br class=""><b class="">To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion<br class=""><b class="">Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [General] double-loop electron model discussion<br class=""></font><br class=""></div><div class=""></div><div class=""><div class="">Hi John W., Martin, Andrew and others,</div><div class=""> </div><div class=""> I think that the present company can mostly agree about one feature common to our various electron models — they are composed in some way of a double-looping photon of basic radius hbar/2mc, which is the Compton wavelength h/mc divided by 4pi . This is also the characteristic vibrational amplitude of the electron found from the Dirac equation. So I think we’re on firm ground with our electron models here (though we are a small group). But then differences are seen when we discuss the nature and location of the electric charge of an electron.</div><div class=""> </div><div class=""> I think we need to keep in mind that Dirac claimed, based on his equation and successful experimental predictions from his equation, that the electron travels at light speed, although he says its observable velocity is always less that light speed. The same could apply to the electron’s charge. Hestenes and Rivas in separate analyses of the Dirac equation found that the electron can be modeled as a light speed electric charge moving in a helical trajectory of radius hbar/2mc. The electron’s “center of charge” rotates around its “center of mass” at light speed, claims Rivas. This is the case even when the electron is at “rest” and the light-speed charge’s helical path becomes a closed circular path. So John, when you say, as does Martin similarly, that "<font size="2" face="Tahoma" class="">Speed of light "charge" cannot happen, in this picture, precisely because of this frame-bound (rest-massive) form”<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></font>you seem to be going against these two Dirac-equation related analyses which have the electron’s charge moving at light-speed even in a resting electron. How do you explain this discrepency between your electron model and these results?</div><div class=""> </div><div class=""> Now Dirac did not claim that the electron is a helically-circulating charged photon. Neither did de Broglie. Both had the opportunity to do so, starting with de Broglie's E=mc^2=hf for the stationary electron. In my opinion, if either had, and had then derived the de Broglie wavelength from this charged photon, this view would be commonly accepted as obvious today. But for some reason there seems to have developed a collective “mental block” among physicists, starting perhaps with de Broglie and persisting until today, that the equation gamma mc^2=hf does NOT indicate that the moving electron is a kind of photon, but rather that the electron is a material object with a certain energy-related internal vibrational frequency which increases in proportion to the total energy of the electron in a way that, due to a “harmony of phases” leads to the de Broglie wavelength and the idea of ‘matter-waves’. Perhaps this collective mental block or dogmatic way of thinking about electrons had its origin in Planck’s endowing his proposed material oscillators in the walls of a blackbody’s cavity with energies having integral multiples of hf. There is now also a kind of dogma that photons have to have spin 1, so that the idea that the electron can be a variety of photon with spin 1/2 is dismissed as impossible or inconceivable, even laughable as a kind of logical contradiction, if it presents itself to mind at all. All of this is understandable. New ideas in physics are not easily accepted, and rightly so. Dogmas, especially when they may have served some useful purpose in the past, die hard.</div><div class=""> </div><div class=""> But I digress. Whether the electron’s charge moves at sub-light speed or at light speed can be a point of reasonable disagreement. But the various proposals that the electron is a double-looping photon with its effective charge at the center of the loop (Williamson and van der Mark), a double-looping light-speed electric charge (Hestenes, Rivas) or a double-looping charged photon, all perhaps can claim at least some rational support and could therefore form the basis for a common presentation about the nature of the electron in relation to the photon.</div><div class=""> </div><div class=""> with best regards,</div><div class=""> Richard</div><div class=""> </div><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Mar 6, 2015, at 12:26 AM, John Williamson <<a href="mailto:John.Williamson@glasgow.ac.uk" target="_blank" class="">John.Williamson@glasgow.ac.uk</a>> wrote:</div><div class=""> </div><div class=""><div class="" style="white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; text-transform: none; direction: ltr; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-family: tahoma; letter-spacing: normal; text-indent: 0px;">Agreed Andrew,<br class=""><br class="">We need to realise that we are all "ignorant" in certain respects - and indeed that "science" is also , presently, completely ignorant in certain respects. We need to break this cycle of ignorance. We need the picture to make sense in science as a whole. If we (I hope!) come up with a complete picture, it must be right everywhere and only just right - explaining, amongst other things- both the nature of and reason for quantisation and the nature of charge.<br class=""><br class="">In the paper I aim to present I hope to argue that one can start from an underlying picture of continuous fields, show how and why these must be quantised and then use that quantised (E=hf) object to show why and how the (quantised) electron charge arises. In that sense I would say that I then "know" what charge is - in terms of the deeper set of principles used to describe it in terms of that theory. Others may say that, within QED charge is that thing which emits and absorbs photons, the carriers of the electromagnetic force and may claim, therefore to "understand" what charge is. In my view, there is a big difference between putting charge in a-priori and understanding what it is. Likewise, in the Maxwell equations the "charge" is understood simply as the electric field divergence. This then begs the question of the nature of the charge. The fact that it is defined here as a divergence means that it must have a form related to a particular frame - just as Martin says. Speed of light "charge" cannot happen, in this picture, precisely because of this frame-bound (rest-massive) form.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""><br class="">In our 1997 paper, we put in (a subset of) the experimental properties of the (uncharged) photon and got out an estimate of the charge. We demanded a set of non-crossing, precisely lightspeed, paths. It was these starting points that led to the properties we derived. The charge arose in this model because the oscillating (a.c) photon field was re-configured to give a (d.c.) radial component. That re-configuration (a knotting) required an equal and opposite re-configuration an (antiknot) to give a detailed, smooth transition from cartesian (corkscrew -zero divergence) to toroidal (positive and negative radial) co-ordinates. The half integral spin to what John D calls the Dirac belt trick. The anomalous magnetic moment calculation to a rigorous demand that all paths have the same phase length, and be precisely lightspeed. That article is history though. Still good, I think, in terms of its starting postulates, but we need to move on to a deeper theory that gives BOTH electron AND photon solutions from an underlying theory.<br class=""><br class="">As we talk about this I see many holes and fallacies in what others are saying, I'm expecting (and hoping!), to be challenged on my own areas of ignorance. This is best done on proper, carefully argued papers, not loose emails with half-understood starting points derived from other authority.<br class=""><br class="">It is through interaction and proper discussion that ignorance can be resolved.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""><br class="">Regards, John.<br class=""><br class=""><br class=""><div class="" style="font-size: 16px; font-family: 'Times New Roman';"><hr tabindex="-1" class=""><div id="divRpF893494" class="" style="direction: ltr;"><font size="2" face="Tahoma" class=""><b class="">From:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>General [<a href="mailto:general-bounces+john.williamson=glasgow.ac.uk@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank" class="">general-bounces+john.williamson=glasgow.ac.uk@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>] on behalf of Andrew Meulenberg [<a href="mailto:mules333@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">mules333@gmail.com</a>]<br class=""><b class="">Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Friday, March 06, 2015 7:19 AM<br class=""><b class="">To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion; Andrew Meulenberg<br class=""><b class="">Cc:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>P.G. Vaidya<br class=""><b class="">Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [General] double-loop electron model discussion<br class=""></font><br class=""></div><div class=""></div><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class="">Dear Richard,<br class=""><br class=""></div>While I agree with Martin, I think that we will need to discuss the issue in person to iron out the pros & cons. I am presenting a paper at the conference on the fields & potentials of an optical standing wave. It will describe the differences between photonic 'charge' within the photon and point charges. I will probably be using your paper as one of the several references that talk of charge within a photon.<br class=""><br class=""></div>When we all have had time to read each others' papers (hopefully before gathering at the conference), then we will be better able to understand our respective positions and integrate the information into a coherent, self-consistent, mutually acceptable, whole. I would like the actual presentations from the multiple sources to present a complete picture, not the repetitive fragments with the contradictions that presently exist..<br class=""><br class=""></div>Andrew<br class=""></div><div class="gmail_extra"><div class=""> </div><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Mar 6, 2015 at 12:14 PM, Richard Gauthier<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span dir="ltr" class=""><<a href="mailto:richgauthier@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">richgauthier@gmail.com</a>></span><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>wrote:<br class=""><blockquote class="gmail_quote" type="cite" style="padding-left: 1ex; margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid;"><div class="" style="word-wrap: break-word;">Hello Martin,<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><div class=""> Thank you for your thoughtful comments and questions. You are right that any complete model of the electron would include the origin of electric charge. No one currently understands the nature and origin of electric charge—that’s why there are various models of the electron. To say that electric charge originates with electric fields that have a non-zero divergence is to imply that we understand the origin of electromagnetic fields, which are supposed to be generated by accelerated electric charges! A full circle of deep ignorance as the the nature of either. It seems clear to me that both electric charge and electromagnetic fields originate from something more primary and more fundamental than either. I call this more fundamental entity an energy quantum. It generates both electric charge and electromagnetic fields, as well as other physical properties of quantized particles. Its chief characteristic is its energy which is proportional to its frequency: E=hf. It takes on other properties such as the speed of light, wavelength, momentum, spin, magnetic moment, flavor, color charge etc depending on what physical particle such as the photon, electron, gluon, quark etc that it expresses itself as. The energy quantum expresses non-locally through the various particles that it manifests as such as the photon or the electron.</div><div class=""> So I don’t think that the electric charge has to be point-like. I do think that the energy quantum, which is not inherently charged, is likely to be point-like. It generates the electron which has all the electron's enigmatic properties. I think that if the energy quantum was better understood as a hypothetical fundamental entity, the quantum properties of the so-called fundamental particles would become less enigmatic. So the electron may be a charged photon, but a photon is an energy quantum expressing as an uncharged photon or as a charged photon (electron). In your and John's model of the electron, electric charge must travel at less than the speed of light, but in my model of the electron as a charged photon, electric charge can travel at light speed and perhaps faster. Neither of our models is proved to the extent that either of them can claim factually that electric charge can or cannot travel at the speed of light or even faster than light. That’s for experiment to decide. But we can ask how our models can lead to a deeper understanding of matter and energy.</div><div class=""> with best regards,</div><div class=""> Richard</div><div class=""> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Mar 4, 2015, at 8:01 AM, Mark, Martin van der <<a href="mailto:martin.van.der.mark@philips.com" target="_blank" class="">martin.van.der.mark@philips.com</a>> wrote:</div><div class=""> </div><div class=""><div class="" style="white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; text-transform: none; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 12px; line-height: normal; font-family: helvetica; letter-spacing: normal; text-indent: 0px;"><div class="" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Oh Richard, maybe the main thing is:<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></div><div class="" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Why put charge in your model to begin with? Wouldn’t it be nice to have it as a consequence? The charge itself is the whole problem to begin with…<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></div><div class="" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">The motivation just puzzles me….<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></div><div class="" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Cheers, Martin<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></div><div class="" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"></span> </div><div class=""><div class="" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span lang="DE" class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: arial, sans-serif; color: navy;">Dr. Martin B. van der Mark</span><span lang="DE" class="" style="color: navy;"><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></div><div class="" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: arial, sans-serif; color: navy;">Principal Scientist, Minimally Invasive Healthcare</span><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: calibri, sans-serif; color: navy;"><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></div><div class="" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: calibri, sans-serif; color: navy;"><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span> </div><div class="" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: arial, sans-serif; color: navy;">Philips Research Europe - Eindhoven</span><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: calibri, sans-serif; color: navy;"><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></div><div class="" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: arial, sans-serif; color: navy;">High Tech Campus, Building 34 (WB2.025)</span><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: calibri, sans-serif; color: navy;"><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></div><div class="" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: arial, sans-serif; color: navy;">Prof. Holstlaan 4</span><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: calibri, sans-serif; color: navy;"><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></div><div class="" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: arial, sans-serif; color: navy;">5656 AE Eindhoven, The Netherlands</span><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: calibri, sans-serif; color: navy;"><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></div><div class="" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: arial, sans-serif; color: navy;">Tel: +31 40 2747548</span><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></div></div><div class="" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"></span> </div><div class=""><div class="" style="border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, 223); border-top-width: 1pt; border-style: solid none none; padding: 3pt 0cm 0cm;"><div class="" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><b class=""><span class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">From:</span></b><span class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;"><span class=""> </span>General [<a href="mailto:general-bounces+martin.van.der.mark=philips.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank" class="">mailto:general-bounces+martin.van.der.mark=philips.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>]<span class=""> </span><b class="">On Behalf Of<span class=""> </span></b>Mark, Martin van der<br class=""><b class="">Sent:</b><span class=""> </span>woensdag 4 maart 2015 16:56<br class=""><b class="">To:</b><span class=""> </span>Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion<br class=""><b class="">Subject:</b><span class=""> </span>Re: [General] double-loop electron model discussion<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></div></div></div><div class="" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><u class=""></u><u class=""></u> </div><div class="" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Hi Richard, thank you,<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></div><div class="" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Firstly, There are 3 intimately related problems. With the self-energy problem comes the 4/3 problem and that of the Poincare stresses. See chapter 28 VOL II of the Feynman Lectures. Neither has to do with the electron being a point. (go back and make sure you read that previous sentence well) When the electron is taken to be smaller than half the classical radius, it is already the end of physics, because there is more energy in the electric field outside than there is mass to begin with.<span class=""> </span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></div><div class="" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Secondly, a charged object whatever you call it and whatever its size cannot go at light velocity. It may approach it, but not reach it. Charge means a special configuration of field, of the sort that has a non-zero divergence, field sticks out in all directions. These things, really inescapably, MUST have a so-called “rest” mass, if only from the point of view of what radiation is about: the transverse part, and what virtual photons, longitudinal polarization or near-field optics are about: mass given by their decay length.<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></div><div class="" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">I hope this is clear enough. “Charged photon” is a crippled name, it suggest a contradiction that I believe (I can be quite wrong, but now you know where it comes from) is also part of the whole concept described and in my opinion cannot be married with physics as it stands or with physics as it (perhaps) will appear to be.<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></div><div class="" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Very best, Martin<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></div><div class="" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"></span> </div><div class=""><div class="" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span lang="DE" class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: arial, sans-serif; color: navy;">Dr. Martin B. van der Mark</span><span lang="DE" class="" style="color: navy;"><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></div><div class="" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: arial, sans-serif; color: navy;">Principal Scientist, Minimally Invasive Healthcare</span><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: calibri, sans-serif; color: navy;"><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></div><div class="" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: calibri, sans-serif; color: navy;"><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span> </div><div class="" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: arial, sans-serif; color: navy;">Philips Research Europe - Eindhoven</span><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: calibri, sans-serif; color: navy;"><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></div><div class="" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: arial, sans-serif; color: navy;">High Tech Campus, Building 34 (WB2.025)</span><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: calibri, sans-serif; color: navy;"><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></div><div class="" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: arial, sans-serif; color: navy;">Prof. Holstlaan 4</span><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: calibri, sans-serif; color: navy;"><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></div><div class="" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: arial, sans-serif; color: navy;">5656 AE Eindhoven, The Netherlands</span><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: calibri, sans-serif; color: navy;"><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></div><div class="" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: arial, sans-serif; color: navy;">Tel: +31 40 2747548</span><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></div></div><div class="" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"></span> </div><div class=""><div class="" style="border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, 223); border-top-width: 1pt; border-style: solid none none; padding: 3pt 0cm 0cm;"><div class="" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><b class=""><span class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">From:</span></b><span class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;"><span class=""> </span>General [<a href="mailto:general-bounces+martin.van.der.mark=philips.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank" class="" style="text-decoration: underline; color: purple;">mailto:general-bounces+martin.van.der.mark=philips.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>]<span class=""> </span><b class="">On Behalf Of<span class=""> </span></b>Richard Gauthier<br class=""><b class="">Sent:</b><span class=""> </span>woensdag 4 maart 2015 16:19<br class=""><b class="">To:</b><span class=""> </span>Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion<br class=""><b class="">Subject:</b><span class=""> </span>Re: [General] double-loop electron model discussion<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></div></div></div><div class="" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><u class=""></u><u class=""></u> </div><div class="" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;">Martin,<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></div><div class=""><div class="" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"> I agree. The electron’s quantum existence has a unity that must be preserved in any electron model, although I would like to hear why this must be in your opinion.<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></div></div><div class=""><div class="" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"> The charged photon model of the electron does not require that the charge of the charged photon (i.e. the electron) is a point charge. What we know about the electron is that when it is detected it displays point-like behavior, so at that time the charge as well as the location of the detected electron is point-like (or at least confined within the particular region of detection of the electron.) The same goes for a photon. We cannot say that the photon is point-like when it is traveling undetected through a double slit apparatus, which an electron can do also. As the electron/charged photon goes through the double slits, its charge goes through the double slits also, as does its spin and magnetic moment (or at least the electron's potential for re-expressing all of these properties when it is later detected after passing wavelike through both slits.) The photon is only point-like when it is detected. So the electron and the photon are very similar in this respect, both showing wave-particle duality. I’m claiming that this wave-particle duality property (or Feynman's sum-over-histories property if you don’t like wave-particle duality) of a photon and an electron is essentially the same because the electron is a charged photon and has the properties of a photon like wave-particle duality, interference, diffraction, and entanglement. But I also claim that the term “matter-waves” is less meaningful for an electron if an electron is a charged photon and is not really “matter” at all, unless an uncharged photon is also “matter”. In this view, the term “matter” and “material” are not really relevant to the physicist except as various expressions of energy, if matter is really light or other luminous objects like gluons of various frequencies, conformations, and levels of confinement.<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></div></div><div class=""><div class="" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"> The charged photon model only requires that the charged photon have the quantum and wave properties of the photon given by E=hf , p=h/lambda and c=lambda f , which by the way are present in your photon with toroidal topology as I understand it. The charged photon carries the charge -e for an electron and +e for the charged photon which is a positron. The light-speed of the electron (which I call a charged photon) is currently unobserved (as Dirac remarked) but this doesn’t mean that this light speed is not part of the electron/charged photon model, since the charged photon model of the electron generates the de Broglie wavelength which IS observed and is based on a) a helically circulating light-speed charged photon, b) the increasing frequency of the light-speed charged photon with increasing electron total energy, and c) the corresponding decrease of wavelength of the light-speed charged photon with increasing electron total energy. Since your toroidal electron model has these photon properties, it will also generate the de Broglie wavelength as does the charged photon model when your electron model has a velocity in the direction perpendicular to the plane of its helical axis. So your electron model will generate the de Broglie wavelength in 2 ways — the way you describe in your and John’s article and in this way as well.<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></div></div><div class=""><div class="" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"> So I am not attached to the electron as charged photon model as having a point-like electric charge just as I am not attached to an uncharged photon model being point-like. The supposed point-like charge of an electron as leading to unwanted infinities has been a headache to physicists for a long time. Perhaps a new approach is needed.<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></div></div><div class=""><div class="" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></div><div class=""><blockquote class="" type="cite" style="margin-bottom: 5pt; margin-top: 5pt;"><div class=""><div class="" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;">On Mar 3, 2015, at 3:24 PM, Mark, Martin van der <<a href="mailto:martin.van.der.mark@philips.com" target="_blank" class="" style="text-decoration: underline; color: purple;">martin.van.der.mark@philips.com</a>> wrote:<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></div></div><div class="" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><u class=""></u><u class=""></u> </div><div class=""><pre class="" style="word-wrap: break-word; font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; word-spacing: 0px; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">Hi Chip, clearly what John and I have written is too compact to give a full explanation and it should not have been a surprise to me that the subtleties do not always immediately sink in with the reader. <u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">Perhaps there will be time in at the conference to sit together and discuss the physics, like why, on firm experimental grounds, it absolutely imposible that the electron consists of two parts. It is a very puzzling one, and why the narrowest possible escape may be just, and only just, sufficient: that it is a single quantum of electromagnetic field with a non trivial topplogy. And why any extra property put in from the beginning will destroy the whole concept. Emerging properties should be: charge, spin, magnetic moment, de broglie wavelength, Pauli principle, etc. <u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">Really the only thing i do not have too much of a clue about is the mass scale...our model is at least not by itself capable of explaing it. This is one of the things a real theory should provide!<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">Cheers, Martin<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;"> </span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">Verstuurd vanaf mijn iPhone<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;"> </span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">> Op 3 mrt. 2015 om 18:30 heeft "Chip Akins" <<a href="mailto:chipakins@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="" style="text-decoration: underline; color: purple;"><span class="" style="color: purple;">chipakins@gmail.com</span></a>> het volgende geschreven:<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">> <u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">> Hi Martin<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">> <u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">> I have read your 1997 paper many times and continue to refer to it during research.<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">> <u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">> Rereading the Feynman Lectures II chapter 28 now.<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">> <u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">> I am fairly certain that my model, derived in part from yours, handles these issues similarly, but adds some specifics for the electron you may be interested in. If you have not read it please give it a look.<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">> <u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">> Chip<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">> <u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">> From: General [<a href="mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank" class="" style="text-decoration: underline; color: purple;"><span class="" style="color: purple;">mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</span></a>] On Behalf Of Mark, Martin van der<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">> Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2015 11:23 AM<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">> To: Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">> Subject: Re: [General] double-loop electron model discussion<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">> <u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">> Hi Chip,<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">> John and I have dealt with it in our model. However, we can only be sure if we can also develop a complete theory: a model is just and only a toy. A very important toy to guide our thinking and to help us taking all aspects on board.<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">> In our 1997 paper, we dealt with just about everything, except for:<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">> <u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">> · The Pauli principle (interference at same Compton frequency)<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">> <u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">> · The weak interaction (linked field lines)<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">> <u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">> · The strong interaction (knotted flow)<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">> Although after all these years I still feel that our model is very adequate, perhaps the most important of our 1997 paper is that it explains the problems related to certain properties of the electron.<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">> So read the paper and you will know a lot more about the physics involved. And do read Chapter 28 VOL II of Feynman.<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">> Good luck,<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">> Martin<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">> <u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">> Dr. Martin B. van der Mark<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">> Principal Scientist, Minimally Invasive Healthcare<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">> <u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">> Philips Research Europe - Eindhoven<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">> High Tech Campus, Building 34 (WB2.025)<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">> Prof. Holstlaan 4<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">> 5656 AE Eindhoven, The Netherlands<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">> Tel: +31 40 2747548<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">> <u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">> From: General [<a href="mailto:general-bounces+martin.van.der.mark=philips.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank" class="" style="text-decoration: underline; color: purple;"><span class="" style="color: purple;">mailto:general-bounces+martin.van.der.mark=philips.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</span></a>] On Behalf Of Chip Akins<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">> Sent: dinsdag 3 maart 2015 18:05<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">> To: 'Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion'<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">> Subject: Re: [General] double-loop electron model discussion<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">> <u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">> Hi Martin<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">> <u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">> Thank you for the comments.<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">> <u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">> In your opinion does the model you and John W. created for the electron (1997) satisfy this self-energy problem you mention?<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">> <u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">> I have read the Feynman lectures, but it has been a while, so time for a review.<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">> <u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">> Infinities are quite distasteful, and an electron has spin and a magnetic moment, so it can be argued that the electron cannot actually be a point, even if it does react at a single point.<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">> <u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">> Thoughts?<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">> <u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">> Chip<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">> <u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">> From: General [<a href="mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank" class="" style="text-decoration: underline; color: purple;"><span class="" style="color: purple;">mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</span></a>] On Behalf Of Mark, Martin van der<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">> Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2015 10:40 AM<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">> To: Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">> Subject: Re: [General] double-loop electron model discussion<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">> <u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">> Hi Chip, Richard and Andrew,<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">> <u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">> 1) Ever read chapter 28 of Vol. II of the Feynman Lectures?<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">> It is about the energy in the field of a charged object, like a football that has been rubbed against a cat (as physicists do).<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">> That energy goes to infinity at smaller and smaller radius. This leads to the self-energy problem for a small particle. (The invention of charged photons doesn’t seem to do this any good)<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">> <u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">> 2) The interaction of an electron is point-like, it means that it consists of a single thing, not two massive parts bound by a force (because that would vibrate at some energy)<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">> Any electron model must be able to make plausible why this is.<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">> Some thinking to do for you perhaps…<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">> Best, Martin<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">> <u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">> <u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">> Dr. Martin B. van der Mark<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">> Principal Scientist, Minimally Invasive Healthcare<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">> <u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">> Philips Research Europe - Eindhoven<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">> High Tech Campus, Building 34 (WB2.025)<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">> Prof. Holstlaan 4<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">> 5656 AE Eindhoven, The Netherlands<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">> Tel: +31 40 2747548<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">> <u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">> From: General [<a href="mailto:general-bounces+martin.van.der.mark=philips.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank" class="" style="text-decoration: underline; color: purple;"><span class="" style="color: purple;">mailto:general-bounces+martin.van.der.mark=philips.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</span></a>] On Behalf Of Chip Akins<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">> Sent: dinsdag 3 maart 2015 17:10<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">> To: 'Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion'<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">> Subject: Re: [General] double-loop electron model discussion<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">> <u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">> Hi Richard and Andrew<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">> <u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">> Andrew, I have been looking at the annihilation reaction of the electron and positron and considering that the result yields two photons of the energy 0.511MeV. Then assuming the electron and positron are each made of one photon.<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">> So far, possibly due to my assumptions regarding the nature of a photon, I have not been able to logically justify splitting the positive and negative “portions’ of a single photon to create these two oppositely charged particles. To me the positive and negative portions of the photon are really made of the same thing, in that they are simply one field vector pointing toward the positive. The positive and negative ends being part of the same spacetime distortion.<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">> <u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">> I have attached an updated draft of the electron as a confined photon.<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">> <u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">> Chip<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">> <u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">> From: General [<a href="mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank" class="" style="text-decoration: underline; color: purple;"><span class="" style="color: purple;">mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</span></a>] On Behalf Of Richard Gauthier<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">> Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2015 9:08 AM<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">> To: Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">> Subject: Re: [General] double-loop electron model discussion<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">> <u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">> Hi Andrew,<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">> That’s a very interesting view that a wormhole connection between a created electron-positron pair could resolve the EPR paradox. I think that you would need to show that the same wormhole explanation would resolve the EPR paradox with other particles that are quantum mechanically entangled. You would also need to show that the appropriate quantum communication between two particles could pass between their connecting wormhole to keep them entangled.<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">> There are other sub-quantum hypotheses I suppose about how a photon interacting with another photon or an atomic nucleus can create an electron pair. Have you studied them and eliminated them as possible contenders?<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">> <u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">> On Mar 2, 2015, at 7:59 AM, Andrew Meulenberg <<a href="mailto:mules333@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="" style="text-decoration: underline; color: purple;"><span class="" style="color: purple;">mules333@gmail.com</span></a><<a href="mailto:mules333@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="" style="text-decoration: underline; color: purple;"><span class="" style="color: purple;">mailto:mules333@gmail.com</span></a>>> wrote:<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">> <u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">> Dear Richard, Chip, et al.,<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">> I thought for a long time about the electron as a self-bound photon, before I realized that I could only make progress when I considered the electron/positron pair as that photon. So, instead of a free photon (a soliton) we must consider 2 self-bound solitons, that can be separated. It was the paraphrased statement(s) from a molecular biologist (who read more physics than I did) that started me on the right path. "Mass and charge are only produced when (& as) the soliton pair are separated." This became the basis of a paper that AJP rejected in 9 minutes from its electronic receipt. However, with that identity of mass and charge in mind and with the recognition of total internal reflection (TIR) as a means of binding light in a "whispering-Gallery" mode, it became clear that the transverse electric field of a bound photon could be 'rectified' by the Goos–Hänchen or Imbert–Fedorov effect<<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imbert%E2%80%93Fedorov_effect" target="_blank" class="" style="text-decoration: underline; color: purple;"><span class="" style="color: purple;">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imbert%E2%80%93Fedorov_effect</span></a>> of a photon and give the net charge of an electron. This happens at a unique frequency and orbit size where the negative phase shift exactly equals the phase advance of the photon and the electric field can always point out. If the phase is not correct, then the distortion of space (which affects the refractive index of the path and thus the curvature of the photon) is not resonant. However, this difference in curvature, balanced against the phase shift gives a stable configuration.<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">> <u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">> That was the easy part. Nevertheless, I have not yet actually done the full calculations. Someone of the group, with more mathematical ability than I, could do so and coauthor my paper.<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">> My present conjecture: What happens to the field confined inside the bound-photon 'orbit'? It is so greatly concentrated by the path curvature that it becomes 'singular' at the center. Nature 'abhors a singularity' even more than it abhors a vacuum! The extreme energy density distorts space and forms a 'connection' between the forming electron and positron. I believe that the distortion is a wormhole and the connection is thru time. Just as the external field lines of a bar magnet are 'closed' thru the bar, I believe that the electric field lines of an electron/positron (the lepton) pair in space, also form and are closed thru time via the wormhole. The lepton pair remains connected (entangled) by this internal structure until the wormhole 'distributes' among all of the neighboring charges. [I don't believe that the wormhole collapses until a pair annihilates.] Since time does not exist within a wormhole, this resolves the EPR paradox.<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">> In response to Richard's intent "I would like to start a thread that focuses on comparing and contrasting the various double-loop electron models ... to find any common areas of agreement, and any points of difference."<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">> My original double-loop model assumed that every wavelength is divided in 1/2 and then recombined (nearly superposed). It required a different type of phase shift than normally assumed and was nicely represented by the mobius strip with a 1/2 twist per 1/2 cycle (a full rotation for every wavelength).<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">> My present concept, using the Goos–Hänchen or Imbert–Fedorov effect, does not require a relationship between a 'twist' and the photon wavelength, since the path curvature provides the necessary phase shift to keep the fields constant. These options must still be confirmed.<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">> Thus, I have two models with different mobius twist factors. One with a 1/2 twist per 1/2 cycle, and one with no twist at all. I believe that both models would allow the electron to be the lowest level and this structure could have higher levels such as the muon. (However, I don't think that they can be considered excited states.)<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">> Andrew<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">> _____________________________<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">> <u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">> On Sun, Mar 1, 2015 at 8:41 PM, Chip Akins <<a href="mailto:chipakins@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="" style="text-decoration: underline; color: purple;"><span class="" style="color: purple;">chipakins@gmail.com</span></a><<a href="mailto:chipakins@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="" style="text-decoration: underline; color: purple;"><span class="" style="color: purple;">mailto:chipakins@gmail.com</span></a>>> wrote:<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">> Hi Richard<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">> <u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">> One of the items which intrigued me while studying electron models, was the notion that charge was topologically generated by the spin of the electron. We only find charge in spin 1/2 particles. Looking at U(1) and SU(2) and the Yang-Mills "phase force" idea, led me to be even more convinced.<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">> <u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">> As it turns out, it seems the photon is capable of generating charge topologically, when confined. Of course the simplest method to express that confinement is a monochromatic circular plane wave, certain toroidal models may also work, as long as the negative end of the E field is exposed to the outside.<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">> <u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">> Another attraction in starting with the plane circular model, is the relative ease of analyzing wave interference. It happens that wave interference is very important, because the result is that the effective electrical and magnetic radius is then slightly larger than the transport radius, providing the exact values for the magnetic moment (with anomaly), and the exact electric charge. Wave interference occurs near the center of the model, making the E field less efficient near the center, and thereby shifting the effective E field radius, and therefore the effective magnetic radius, outwards, while not affecting the transport radius.<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">> <u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">> With these values (magnetic moment and charge) defined so accurately in the model, it is still a little puzzling that my models wave interference predicts a value for the fine structure, internal to the electron, of 0.007285993718303 when the actual value (CODATA) is 0.0072973525698. The difference is 0.1557% but I still feel it is significant, and want to know why the difference is there. Maybe I am calculating the interference incorrectly or incompletely. Or maybe there is another contribution to the fine structure which I have missed. While writing this I may have discovered where my error is. I kept telling myself that the fields actually extend far beyond the effective RMS radius but falling off in intensity, and I accounted for that in part of the wave interference calculations, but not all of the interference was calculated, because I failed to see its tiny contribution before now.<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">> <u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">> Another aspect of my model which is unique and not incorporated in any other model we have seen is the relative phase of the electrical and magnetic components of the wave. This aspect becomes important when understanding how the photon is confined.<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">> The electron exhibits many clues to its nature. From this model we can calculate the exact known value for the Quantum Hall effect, by simply running some standard electrical engineering formula using the "voltage", "current", and frequency. This indicates also that an electrical engineering analysis may provide other valuable information. Using a similar approach we can understand that the electron will display a particular phase relationship between E and M components. In a simple EM resonant system the E and M components are shifted 90 degrees at resonance. If we start with a 90 degree phase shift and look at the double loop configuration of the wave we see an apparent 180 degree phase shift in the confined E and M components, placing them on opposite sides of the electron radius at any given instant. Then it is much easier to see that with the E and M fields on opposite sides, and the attraction between these fields, the issue of photon confinement is simplified somewhat.<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">> <u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">> We still have a ways to go, getting answers to many of the remaining questions. But so far it seems like the group has uncovered some important new understanding which may lead us to a clearer, causal, view of physics, and provide a new basis which can describe experiment more fully and accurately.<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">> <u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">> Chip<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">> <u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">> -----Original Message-----<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">> From: General [mailto:<a href="mailto:general-bounces%2Bchipakins" target="_blank" class="">general-bounces+chipakins</a><<a href="mailto:general-bounces%2Bchipakins" target="_blank" class="" style="text-decoration: underline; color: purple;">mailto:general-bounces%2Bchipakins</a>>=<a href="mailto:gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank" class="" style="text-decoration: underline; color: purple;"><span class="" style="color: purple;">gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</span></a><<a href="mailto:gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank" class="" style="text-decoration: underline; color: purple;"><span class="" style="color: purple;">mailto:gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</span></a>>] On Behalf Of Richard Gauthier<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">> Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2015 11:47 PM<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">> To: Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">> Subject: Re: [General] double-loop electron model discussion<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">> <u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">> Hi Chip,<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">> <u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">> Thank you for your thoughtful as well as personal history comments about your interest in modeling the electron. My own interest in the structure and composition of the electron dates back to the late 1980’s. My spiritual guru gave some new ideas in 1986 about how matter might be formed by a kind of life principle transmitted through subtle vibrating life-energy entities that have both a mental and a physical portion. That idea intrigued me and soon I tried to apply the idea to make a model of a photon as being composed of millions of these oscillating life-particles. I had mainly my intuition to guide me. My photon model soon contained a single circulating energy entity (a superluminal energy quantum) traveling helically at a 45 degree angle with the speed c sqrt(2) and a total momentum along a helical trajectory of (h/lambda) sqrt(2). The energy quantum's helical radius is the photon’s wavelength lambda divided by 2 pi. This result came out of the requirement that the photon model should have its experimental value of spin hbar (or minus hbar) generated by the transverse component of the superluminal energy quantum's total momentum along its helical trajectory, while having the transluminal energy quantum’s longitudinal component of momentum be the photon's linear momentum p=h/lambda.<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">> <u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">> I then modeled the electron as a closed charged photon-like object. I knew very little about the Dirac equation except its prediction of antimatter and that the electron has a 4pi rotational symmetry. I also found that a single closed-loop of one wavelength of a photon (the Compton wavelength h/mc) with the electron’s rest energy mc^2 yields a spin of 1 hbar — twice the value of the electron’s spin. It hit me that making a double-loop of a single wavelength photon produces an electron model with a spin of 1/2 hbar.<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">> <u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">> While making my electron model I realized that it should also have the electron’s magnetic moment M — approximately the magnitude of the Bohr magneton (e hbar)/2m. I set the electron model to have the Bohr magneton for its magnetic moment by adjusting the radius of the closed helical path of the helically moving charged superluminal energy quantum so that its helically circulating charge generates the Dirac equation electron's Bohr magneton for the electron model. (Choosing a slightly larger helical radius generates the electron’s exact experimental value of magnetic moment which is a little larger than the Bohr magneton’s magnitude.)<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">> <u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">> Later I started analyzing other people’s cyclical models of the electron more closely. I found that Dirac had claimed that electrons actually move at the speed of light, but that only a sub-luminal speed can be observed. I found two analyses of the Dirac equation that suggested that the path of a moving electron’s charge can be described as light-speed along an open helix. This gave me the idea to fit my model of the circulating charged photon for a resting electron to this light-speed helical approach. I realized that the circulating photon in the electron model would have an increased frequency f corresponding to its increased total energy gamma mc^2 when the electron moves forward, and that the corresponding wavelength of this circulating charged photon would decrease with this increasing frequency, in order to keep the speed of light of the circulating charged photon constant. The radius of the charged photon’s helix was found to decrease with increasing electron velocity by the factor gamma^2 in order for the photon’s wavelength to decrease as described as the frequency of the charged photon increases with increasing electron speed and total energy. All the math worked out nicely, including the generation of the electron’s spin 1/2 hbar for a slow moving electron from the tangential component mc of the charged photon’s total momentum gamma mc along its helical axis, multiplied by the radius hbar/2mc of the charged photon’s helical axis for a slow moving electron. And I realized that any speed-of-light double-looping photon model for an electron should also follow a corresponding helical path whose radius decreases in the same way with the electron’s increase speed. This is because the result only depends on the relations E=hf, p=h/lambda , and c= lambda f , the basic quantum energy and momentum equations for a photon and the equation for wave motion with speed c.<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">> <u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">> Although I knew that any acceptable electron model would have to generate the relativistic de Broglie wavelength Ldb = h/(gamma mv) , I was quite surprised that this result falls out so easily from the circulating charged photon model of a moving electron, where the longitudinal component of the circulating charged photon’s wave vector k yields the wave number that corresponds to the relativistic de Broglie wavelength. Furthermore, this simple result for the origin of the electron’s de Broglie wavelength suggests that the quantum wave functions for a moving electron, which depend heavily on the electron's de Broglie wavelength, are produced mathematically from the waves generated by the circulating charged photon that models the electron.<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">> <u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">> Richard<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">> <u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">>> On Feb 28, 2015, at 6:47 AM, Chip Akins <<a href="mailto:chipakins@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="" style="text-decoration: underline; color: purple;"><span class="" style="color: purple;">chipakins@gmail.com</span></a><<a href="mailto:chipakins@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="" style="text-decoration: underline; color: purple;"><span class="" style="color: purple;">mailto:chipakins@gmail.com</span></a>>> wrote:<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">>> <u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">>> Hi Richard and ALL<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">>> <u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">>> You asked for a comparison of electron models.<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">>> <u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">>> Since 1986, while having lunch with a mathematician, Eric Peterson, I have felt that the electron was made up of EM waves, or a photon.<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">>> <u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">>> Several of us have come to the same conclusion.<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">>> <u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">>> When I saw your model from 2005 many things started to make sense. That is why I was so excited and interested to fully pursue the math to try to deeply understand your TEQ model. It was quite informative and inspiring to see your work.<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">>> <u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">>> Since that time, principally due to an Occam's razor argument, I have returned to the view that TEQ's are not required to model the electron. While I still feel that it may be possible that TEQ's exist, I do not find, in my view, that it is required for the modeling of the photon and electron.<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">>> <u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">>> When I later saw John W and Martin's work from 1997 I was again very interested, principally because they were saying the same thing I was thinking, in general.<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">>> <u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">>> While running the math and testing the model from John W and Martin, it occurred to me that we had to have some sort of photon model to build the electron from. So I produced the simplest model I could imagine which would fulfill what I felt then was the basic criteria. My view of the basic criteria has since changed due to this collaboration, so I am working now to update my electron model. However it seems most of the electron model remains intact.<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">>> <u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">>> The fundamental differences between my model and John W. and Martin's model are as follows:<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">>> <u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">>> I found that wave interference may be precisely the cause for the exact value of the magnetic moment anomaly, and the cause for the exact value for the elementary charge.<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">>> <u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">>> That wave interference, incidentally, produces a new view of the fine structure constant in the electron.<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">>> <u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">>> My motivation, in part, to do this work, was because we have to provide an electron model which is simple in comparison, and competes with current theory and models in accuracy, before such a model will be considered a viable alternative.<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">>> <u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">>> My model currently falls short of some of the goals that I feel we will need, in order for our work to be considered noteworthy and to be eventually accepted.<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">>> <u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">>> My model also demonstrates the cause for inertial mass, but I think John W. and Martin's model may illustrate the same property. And in fact, all confined photon models may show the same attribute of inertial mass.<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">>> <u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">>> There are implications of the work we are doing which we also need to discuss. If Matter is made from light, when you think about its implications on relativity, leads to the existence of a preferred reference rest frame in space, leading us toward Chandra's view and CTF.<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">>> <u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">>> Working with all of you is both enlightening and inspiring.<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">>> <u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">>> Chip<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">>> <u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">>> <u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">>> <u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">>> <u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">>> -----Original Message-----<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">>> From: General<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">>> [mailto:<a href="mailto:general-bounces%2Bchipakins" target="_blank" class="">general-bounces+chipakins</a><<a href="mailto:general-bounces%2Bchipakins" target="_blank" class="" style="text-decoration: underline; color: purple;">mailto:general-bounces%2Bchipakins</a>>=<a href="mailto:gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandpart" target="_blank" class="" style="text-decoration: underline; color: purple;"><span class="" style="color: purple;">gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandpart</span></a><<a href="mailto:gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandpart" target="_blank" class="" style="text-decoration: underline; color: purple;"><span class="" style="color: purple;">mailto:gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandpart</span></a>><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">>> <a href="http://icles.org/" target="_blank" class="" style="text-decoration: underline; color: purple;"><span class="" style="color: purple;">icles.org</span></a><<a href="http://icles.org/" target="_blank" class="" style="text-decoration: underline; color: purple;"><span class="" style="color: purple;">http://icles.org/</span></a>>] On Behalf Of Richard Gauthier<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">>> Sent: Friday, February 27, 2015 11:10 PM<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">>> To: Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">>> Subject: [General] double-loop electron model discussion<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">>> <u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">>> I would like to start a thread that focuses on comparing and contrasting the various double-loop electron models, mainly John and Martin’s (J/M's), Chip’s, Vivian's and mine, and any others that people may know of, to find any common areas of agreement, and any points of difference. I think we are all agreed that the resting electron in our various models has spin 1/2 hbar. Chip’s model is based on J/M's model. I’d like to ask Chip, if I might, what commonalities and differences exist between J/M’s electron model and Chip's electron model. We can go on from there, if that’s agreeable.<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">>> Richard<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">>> _______________________________________________<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">>> If you no longer wish to receive communication from the Nature of<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">>> Light and Particles General Discussion List at <a href="mailto:chipakins@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="" style="text-decoration: underline; 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font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">>> <u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">>> _______________________________________________<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">>> If you no longer wish to receive communication from the Nature of<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">>> Light and Particles General Discussion List at <a href="mailto:richgauthier@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="" style="text-decoration: underline; color: purple;"><span class="" style="color: purple;">richgauthier@gmail.com</span></a><<a href="mailto:richgauthier@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="" style="text-decoration: underline; 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font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">> <u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">> _______________________________________________<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">> If you no longer wish to receive communication from the Nature of Light and Particles General Discussion List at <a href="mailto:chipakins@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="" style="text-decoration: underline; color: purple;"><span class="" style="color: purple;">chipakins@gmail.com</span></a><<a href="mailto:chipakins@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="" style="text-decoration: underline; color: purple;"><span class="" style="color: purple;">mailto:chipakins@gmail.com</span></a>> <a href="<a href="http://lists.natureoflightandparticles.org/options.cgi/general-natureoflightandparticles.org/chipakins%40gmail.com?unsub=1&unsubconfirm=1" target="_blank" class="" style="text-decoration: underline; 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If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by return e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message.<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">> <The Electron as a Confined Photon CA.pdf><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">> _______________________________________________<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">> If you no longer wish to receive communication from the Nature of Light and Particles General Discussion List at <a href="mailto:martin.van.der.mark@philips.com" target="_blank" class="" style="text-decoration: underline; color: purple;"><span class="" style="color: purple;">martin.van.der.mark@philips.com</span></a><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">> <a href="<a href="http://lists.natureoflightandparticles.org/options.cgi/general-natureoflightandparticles.org/martin.van.der.mark%40philips.com?unsub=1&unsubconfirm=1" target="_blank" class="" style="text-decoration: underline; color: purple;"><span class="" style="color: purple;">http://lists.natureoflightandparticles.org/options.cgi/general-natureoflightandparticles.org/martin.van.der.mark%40philips.com?unsub=1&unsubconfirm=1</span></a>"><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">> Click here to unsubscribe<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><pre class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: 'Courier New'; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">> </a><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></pre><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;">Hi Martin<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></div></div><div class="" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><u class=""></u><u class=""></u> </div><div class=""><div class="" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;">I have read your 1997 paper many times and continue to refer to it during research.<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></div></div><div class="" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><u class=""></u><u class=""></u> </div><div class=""><div class="" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;">Rereading the Feynman Lectures II chapter 28 now.<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></div></div><div class="" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><u class=""></u><u class=""></u> </div><div class=""><div class="" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;">I am fairly certain that my model, derived in part from yours, handles these issues similarly, but adds some specifics for the electron you may be interested in. If you have not read it please give it a look.<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></div></div><div class="" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><u class=""></u><u class=""></u> </div><div class=""><div class="" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;">Chip<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></div></div><div class="" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><u class=""></u><u class=""></u> </div><div class=""><div class="" style="border-top-color: rgb(225, 225, 225); border-top-width: 1pt; border-style: solid none none; padding: 3pt 0cm 0cm;"><div class=""><div class="" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><b class=""><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: calibri, sans-serif;">From:</span></b><span class=""><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: calibri, sans-serif;"> </span></span><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: calibri, sans-serif;">General [<a href="mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank" class="" style="text-decoration: underline; color: purple;">mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>]<span class=""> </span><b class="">On Behalf Of<span class=""> </span></b>Mark, Martin van der<br class=""><b class="">Sent:</b><span class=""> </span>Tuesday, March 03, 2015 11:23 AM<br class=""><b class="">To:</b><span class=""> </span>Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion<br class=""><b class="">Subject:</b><span class=""> </span>Re: [General] double-loop electron model discussion</span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></div></div></div></div><div class="" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><u class=""></u><u class=""></u> </div><div class=""><div class="" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Hi Chip,</span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></div></div><div class=""><div class="" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">John and I have dealt with it in our model. However, we can only be sure if we can also develop a complete theory: a model is just and only a toy. A very important toy to guide our thinking and to help us taking all aspects on board.</span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></div></div><div class=""><div class="" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">In our 1997 paper, we dealt with just about everything, except for:</span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></div></div><div class="" style="margin-left: 36pt;"><div class="" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: symbol; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">·</span><span class="" style="font-size: 7pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span class=""> </span></span><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">The Pauli principle (interference at same Compton frequency)</span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></div></div><div class="" style="margin-left: 36pt;"><div class="" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: symbol; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">·</span><span class="" style="font-size: 7pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span class=""> </span></span><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">The weak interaction (linked field lines)</span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></div></div><div class="" style="margin-left: 36pt;"><div class="" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: symbol; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">·</span><span class="" style="font-size: 7pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span class=""> </span></span><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">The strong interaction (knotted flow)</span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></div></div><div class=""><div class="" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Although after all these years I still feel that our model is very adequate, perhaps the most important of our 1997 paper is that it explains the problems related to certain properties of the electron.</span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></div></div><div class=""><div class="" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">So read the paper and you will know a lot more about the physics involved. And do read Chapter 28 VOL II of Feynman.</span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></div></div><div class=""><div class="" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Good luck,</span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></div></div><div class=""><div class="" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Martin</span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></div></div><div class="" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"></span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u> </div><div class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span lang="DE" class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: arial, sans-serif; color: navy;">Dr. Martin B. van der Mark</span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></div></div><div class=""><div class="" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: arial, sans-serif; color: navy;">Principal Scientist, Minimally Invasive Healthcare</span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></div></div><div class="" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: calibri, sans-serif; color: navy;"></span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u> </div><div class=""><div class="" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: arial, sans-serif; color: navy;">Philips Research Europe - Eindhoven</span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></div></div><div class=""><div class="" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: arial, sans-serif; color: navy;">High Tech Campus, Building 34 (WB2.025)</span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></div></div><div class=""><div class="" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: arial, sans-serif; color: navy;">Prof. Holstlaan 4</span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></div></div><div class=""><div class="" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: arial, sans-serif; color: navy;">5656 AE Eindhoven, The Netherlands</span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></div></div><div class=""><div class="" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: arial, sans-serif; color: navy;">Tel: +31 40 2747548</span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></div></div></div><div class="" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"></span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u> </div><div class=""><div class="" style="border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, 223); border-top-width: 1pt; border-style: solid none none; padding: 3pt 0cm 0cm;"><div class=""><div class="" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><b class=""><span class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">From:</span></b><span class=""><span class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;"> </span></span><span class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">General [<a href="mailto:general-bounces+martin.van.der.mark=philips.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank" class="" style="text-decoration: underline; color: purple;"><span class="" style="color: purple;">mailto:general-bounces+martin.van.der.mark=philips.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</span></a>]<span class=""> </span><b class="">On Behalf Of<span class=""> </span></b>Chip Akins<br class=""><b class="">Sent:</b><span class=""> </span>dinsdag 3 maart 2015 18:05<br class=""><b class="">To:</b><span class=""> </span>'Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion'<br class=""><b class="">Subject:</b><span class=""> </span>Re: [General] double-loop electron model discussion</span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></div></div></div></div><div class="" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><u class=""></u><u class=""></u> </div><div class=""><div class="" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;">Hi Martin<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></div></div><div class="" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><u class=""></u><u class=""></u> </div><div class=""><div class="" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;">Thank you for the comments.<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></div></div><div class="" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><u class=""></u><u class=""></u> </div><div class=""><div class="" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;">In your opinion does the model you and John W. created for the electron (1997) satisfy this self-energy problem you mention?<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></div></div><div class="" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><u class=""></u><u class=""></u> </div><div class=""><div class="" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;">I have read the Feynman lectures, but it has been a while, so time for a review.<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></div></div><div class="" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><u class=""></u><u class=""></u> </div><div class=""><div class="" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;">Infinities are quite distasteful, and an electron has spin and a magnetic moment, so it can be argued that the electron cannot actually be a point, even if it does react at a single point.<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></div></div><div class="" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><u class=""></u><u class=""></u> </div><div class=""><div class="" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;">Thoughts?<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></div></div><div class="" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><u class=""></u><u class=""></u> </div><div class=""><div class="" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;">Chip<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></div></div><div class="" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><u class=""></u><u class=""></u> </div><div class=""><div class="" style="border-top-color: rgb(225, 225, 225); border-top-width: 1pt; border-style: solid none none; padding: 3pt 0cm 0cm;"><div class=""><div class="" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><b class=""><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: calibri, sans-serif;">From:</span></b><span class=""><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: calibri, sans-serif;"> </span></span><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: calibri, sans-serif;">General [<a href="mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank" class="" style="text-decoration: underline; color: purple;"><span class="" style="color: purple;">mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</span></a>]<span class=""> </span><b class="">On Behalf Of<span class=""> </span></b>Mark, Martin van der<br class=""><b class="">Sent:</b><span class=""> </span>Tuesday, March 03, 2015 10:40 AM<br class=""><b class="">To:</b><span class=""> </span>Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion<br class=""><b class="">Subject:</b><span class=""> </span>Re: [General] double-loop electron model discussion</span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></div></div></div></div><div class="" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><u class=""></u><u class=""></u> </div><div class=""><div class="" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Hi Chip, Richard and Andrew,</span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></div></div><div class="" style="margin-left: 36pt;"><div class="" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">1)</span><span class="" style="font-size: 7pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span class=""> </span></span><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Ever read chapter 28 of Vol. II of the Feynman Lectures?</span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></div></div><div class=""><div class="" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt; text-indent: 36pt;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">It is about the energy in the field of a charged object, like a football that has been rubbed against a cat (as physicists do).</span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></div></div><div class=""><div class="" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt; text-indent: 36pt;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">That energy goes to infinity at smaller and smaller radius. This leads to the self-energy problem for a small particle. (The invention of charged photons doesn’t seem to do this any good)</span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></div></div><div class="" style="margin-left: 36pt;"><div class="" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">2)</span><span class="" style="font-size: 7pt; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span class=""> </span></span><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">The interaction of an electron is point-like, it means that it consists of a single thing, not two massive parts bound by a force (because that would vibrate at some energy)</span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></div></div><div class=""><div class="" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Any electron model must be able to make plausible why this is.</span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></div></div><div class=""><div class="" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Some thinking to do for you perhaps…</span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></div></div><div class=""><div class="" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);">Best, Martin</span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></div></div><div class="" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"></span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u> </div><div class="" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"></span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u> </div><div class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span lang="DE" class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: arial, sans-serif; color: navy;">Dr. Martin B. van der Mark</span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></div></div><div class=""><div class="" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: arial, sans-serif; color: navy;">Principal Scientist, Minimally Invasive Healthcare</span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></div></div><div class="" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: calibri, sans-serif; color: navy;"></span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u> </div><div class=""><div class="" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: arial, sans-serif; color: navy;">Philips Research Europe - Eindhoven</span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></div></div><div class=""><div class="" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: arial, sans-serif; color: navy;">High Tech Campus, Building 34 (WB2.025)</span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></div></div><div class=""><div class="" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: arial, sans-serif; color: navy;">Prof. Holstlaan 4</span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></div></div><div class=""><div class="" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: arial, sans-serif; color: navy;">5656 AE Eindhoven, The Netherlands</span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></div></div><div class=""><div class="" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: arial, sans-serif; color: navy;">Tel: +31 40 2747548</span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></div></div></div><div class="" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);"></span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u> </div><div class=""><div class="" style="border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, 223); border-top-width: 1pt; border-style: solid none none; padding: 3pt 0cm 0cm;"><div class=""><div class="" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><b class=""><span class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">From:</span></b><span class=""><span class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;"> </span></span><span class="" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: tahoma, sans-serif;">General [<a href="mailto:general-bounces+martin.van.der.mark=philips.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank" class="" style="text-decoration: underline; color: purple;"><span class="" style="color: purple;">mailto:general-bounces+martin.van.der.mark=philips.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</span></a>]<span class=""> </span><b class="">On Behalf Of<span class=""> </span></b>Chip Akins<br class=""><b class="">Sent:</b><span class=""> </span>dinsdag 3 maart 2015 17:10<br class=""><b class="">To:</b><span class=""> </span>'Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion'<br class=""><b class="">Subject:</b><span class=""> </span>Re: [General] double-loop electron model discussion</span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></div></div></div></div><div class="" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><u class=""></u><u class=""></u> </div><div class=""><div class="" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;">Hi Richard and Andrew<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></div></div><div class="" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><u class=""></u><u class=""></u> </div><div class=""><div class="" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;">Andrew, I have been looking at the annihilation reaction of the electron and positron and considering that the result yields two photons of the energy 0.511MeV. Then assuming the electron and positron are each made of one photon.<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></div></div><div class=""><div class="" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;">So far, possibly due to my assumptions regarding the nature of a photon, I have not been able to logically justify splitting the positive and negative “portions’ of a single photon to create these two oppositely charged particles. To me the positive and negative portions of the photon are really made of the same thing, in that they are simply one field vector pointing toward the positive. The positive and negative ends being part of the same spacetime distortion.<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></div></div><div class="" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><u class=""></u><u class=""></u> </div><div class=""><div class="" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;">I have attached an updated draft of<span class=""> </span><u class="">the electron as a confined photon</u>.<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></div></div><div class="" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><u class=""></u><u class=""></u> </div><div class=""><div class="" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;">Chip<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></div></div><div class="" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><u class=""></u><u class=""></u> </div><div class=""><div class="" style="border-top-color: rgb(225, 225, 225); border-top-width: 1pt; border-style: solid none none; padding: 3pt 0cm 0cm;"><div class=""><div class="" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><b class=""><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: calibri, sans-serif;">From:</span></b><span class=""><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: calibri, sans-serif;"> </span></span><span class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: calibri, sans-serif;">General [<a href="mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank" class="" style="text-decoration: underline; color: purple;"><span class="" style="color: purple;">mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</span></a>]<span class=""> </span><b class="">On Behalf Of<span class=""> </span></b>Richard Gauthier<br class=""><b class="">Sent:</b><span class=""> </span>Tuesday, March 03, 2015 9:08 AM<br class=""><b class="">To:</b><span class=""> </span>Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion<br class=""><b class="">Subject:</b><span class=""> </span>Re: [General] double-loop electron model discussion</span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></div></div></div></div><div class="" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><u class=""></u><u class=""></u> </div><div class=""><div class="" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;">Hi Andrew,<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"> That’s a very interesting view that a wormhole connection between a created electron-positron pair could resolve the EPR paradox. I think that you would need to show that the same wormhole explanation would resolve the EPR paradox with other particles that are quantum mechanically entangled. You would also need to show that the appropriate quantum communication between two particles could pass between their connecting wormhole to keep them entangled.<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"> There are other sub-quantum hypotheses I suppose about how a photon interacting with another photon or an atomic nucleus can create an electron pair. Have you studied them and eliminated them as possible contenders?<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></div></div></div><div class=""><div class="" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><u class=""></u><u class=""></u> </div><div class=""><blockquote class="" type="cite" style="margin-bottom: 5pt; margin-top: 5pt;"><div class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;">On Mar 2, 2015, at 7:59 AM, Andrew Meulenberg <<a href="mailto:mules333@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="" style="text-decoration: underline; color: purple;"><span class="" style="color: purple;">mules333@gmail.com</span></a>> wrote:<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></div></div></div><div class="" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><u class=""></u><u class=""></u> </div><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: helvetica, sans-serif;">Dear Richard, Chip, et al.,</span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: helvetica, sans-serif;">I thought for a long time about the electron as a self-bound photon, before I realized that I could only make progress when I considered the electron/positron pair as that photon. So, instead of a free photon (a soliton) we must consider 2 self-bound solitons, that can be separated. It was the paraphrased statement(s) from a molecular biologist (who read more physics than I did) that started me on the right path. "Mass and charge are only produced when (& as) the soliton pair are separated." This became the basis of a paper that AJP rejected in 9 minutes from its electronic receipt. However, with that identity of mass and charge in mind and with the recognition of total internal reflection (TIR) as a means of binding light in a "whispering-Gallery" mode, it became clear that the transverse electric field of a bound photon could be 'rectified' by the Goos–Hänchen or<span class=""> </span><a title="Imbert–Fedorov effect" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imbert%E2%80%93Fedorov_effect" target="_blank" class="" style="text-decoration: underline; color: purple;"><span class="" style="color: purple;">Imbert–Fedorov effect</span></a><span class=""> </span>of a photon and give the net charge of an electron. This happens at a unique frequency and orbit size where the negative phase shift exactly equals the phase advance of the photon and the electric field can always point out. If the phase is not correct, then the distortion of space (which affects the refractive index of the path and thus the curvature of the photon) is not resonant. However, this difference in curvature, balanced against the phase shift gives a stable configuration.<br class=""><br class="">That was the easy part. Nevertheless, I have not yet actually done the full calculations. Someone of the group, with more mathematical ability than I, could do so and coauthor my paper.</span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><b class=""><span class="" style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: helvetica, sans-serif;">My present conjecture</span></b><span class="" style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: helvetica, sans-serif;">: What happens to the field confined inside the bound-photon 'orbit'? It is so greatly concentrated by the path curvature that it becomes 'singular' at the center. Nature 'abhors a singularity' even more than it abhors a vacuum! The extreme energy density distorts space and forms a 'connection' between the forming electron and positron. I believe that the distortion is a wormhole and the connection is thru time. Just as the external field lines of a bar magnet are 'closed' thru the bar, I believe that the electric field lines of an electron/positron (the lepton) pair in space, also form and are closed thru time via the wormhole. The lepton pair remains connected (entangled) by this internal structure until the wormhole 'distributes' among all of the neighboring charges. [I don't believe that the wormhole collapses until a pair annihilates.] Since time does not exist within a wormhole, this resolves the EPR paradox.</span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p></div><div class=""><div class="" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><b class=""><span class="" style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: helvetica, sans-serif;">In response to Richard's intent<span class=""> </span><i class="">"I would like to start a thread that focuses on comparing and contrasting the various double-loop electron models ... to find any common areas of agreement, and any points of difference."</i></span></b><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: helvetica, sans-serif;">My original double-loop model assumed that every wavelength is divided in 1/2 and then recombined (nearly superposed). It required a different type of phase shift than normally assumed and was nicely represented by the mobius strip with a 1/2 twist per 1/2 cycle (a full rotation for every wavelength).</span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: helvetica, sans-serif;">My present concept, using the Goos–Hänchen or Imbert–Fedorov effect, does not require a relationship between a 'twist' and the photon wavelength, since the path curvature provides the necessary phase shift to keep the fields constant. These options must still be confirmed.</span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="" style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: helvetica, sans-serif;">Thus, I have two models with different mobius twist factors. One with a 1/2 twist per 1/2 cycle, and one with no twist at all. I believe that both models would allow the electron to be the lowest level and this structure could have higher levels such as the muon. (However, I don't think that they can be considered excited states.)</span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p></div><div class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: helvetica, sans-serif;">Andrew<br class="">_____________________________</span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></div></div></div><div class=""><div class="" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: helvetica, sans-serif;"></span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u> </div><div class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: helvetica, sans-serif;">On Sun, Mar 1, 2015 at 8:41 PM, Chip Akins<span class=""> </span><<a href="mailto:chipakins@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="" style="text-decoration: underline; color: purple;"><span class="" style="color: purple;">chipakins@gmail.com</span></a>><span class=""> </span>wrote:</span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></div></div><blockquote class="" type="cite" style="border-style: none none none solid; padding: 0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt; margin: 5pt 0cm 5pt 4.8pt; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); border-left-width: 1pt;"><div class=""><div class="" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: helvetica, sans-serif;">Hi Richard<br class=""><br class="">One of the items which intrigued me while studying electron models, was the notion that charge was topologically generated by the spin of the electron. We only find charge in spin 1/2 particles. Looking at U(1) and SU(2) and the Yang-Mills "phase force" idea, led me to be even more convinced.<br class=""><br class="">As it turns out, it seems the photon is capable of generating charge topologically, when confined. Of course the simplest method to express that confinement is a monochromatic circular plane wave, certain toroidal models may also work, as long as the negative end of the E field is exposed to the outside.<br class=""><br class="">Another attraction in starting with the plane circular model, is the relative ease of analyzing wave interference. It happens that wave interference is very important, because the result is that the effective electrical and magnetic radius is then slightly larger than the transport radius, providing the exact values for the magnetic moment (with anomaly), and the exact electric charge. Wave interference occurs near the center of the model, making the E field less efficient near the center, and thereby shifting the effective E field radius, and therefore the effective magnetic radius, outwards, while not affecting the transport radius.<br class=""><br class="">With these values (magnetic moment and charge) defined so accurately in the model, it is still a little puzzling that my models wave interference predicts a value for the fine structure, internal to the electron, of 0.007285993718303 when the actual value (CODATA) is 0.0072973525698. The difference is 0.1557% but I still feel it is significant, and want to know why the difference is there. Maybe I am calculating the interference incorrectly or incompletely. Or maybe there is another contribution to the fine structure which I have missed. While writing this I may have discovered where my error is. I kept telling myself that the fields actually extend far beyond the effective RMS radius but falling off in intensity, and I accounted for that in part of the wave interference calculations, but not all of the interference was calculated, because I failed to see its tiny contribution before now.<br class=""><br class="">Another aspect of my model which is unique and not incorporated in any other model we have seen is the relative phase of the electrical and magnetic components of the wave. This aspect becomes important when understanding how the photon is confined.<br class="">The electron exhibits many clues to its nature. From this model we can calculate the exact known value for the Quantum Hall effect, by simply running some standard electrical engineering formula using the "voltage", "current", and frequency. This indicates also that an electrical engineering analysis may provide other valuable information. Using a similar approach we can understand that the electron will display a particular phase relationship between E and M components. In a simple EM resonant system the E and M components are shifted 90 degrees at resonance. If we start with a 90 degree phase shift and look at the double loop configuration of the wave we see an apparent 180 degree phase shift in the confined E and M components, placing them on opposite sides of the electron radius at any given instant. Then it is much easier to see that with the E and M fields on opposite sides, and the attraction between these fields, the issue of photon confinement is simplified somewhat.<br class=""><br class="">We still have a ways to go, getting answers to many of the remaining questions. But so far it seems like the group has uncovered some important new understanding which may lead us to a clearer, causal, view of physics, and provide a new basis which can describe experiment more fully and accurately.<br class=""><br class=""><span class="">Chip</span><br class=""><br class=""><span class="">-----Original Message-----</span><br class=""><span class="">From: General [mailto:<a href="mailto:general-bounces%2Bchipakins" target="_blank" class="" style="text-decoration: underline; color: purple;"><span class="" style="color: purple;">general-bounces+chipakins</span></a>=<a href="mailto:gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank" class="" style="text-decoration: underline; color: purple;"><span class="" style="color: purple;">gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</span></a>] On Behalf Of Richard Gauthier</span><br class=""><span class="">Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2015 11:47 PM</span><br class=""><span class="">To: Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion</span></span><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class="" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin: 0cm 0cm 0pt;"><span class="" style="font-size: 9pt; font-family: helvetica, sans-serif;">Subject: Re: [General] double-loop electron model discussion<br class=""><br class="">Hi Chip,<br class=""><br class=""> Thank you for your thoughtful as well as personal history comments about your interest in modeling the electron. My own interest in the structure and composition of the electron dates back to the late 1980’s. My spiritual guru gave some new ideas in 1986 about how matter might be formed by a kind of life principle transmitted through subtle vibrating life-energy entities that have both a mental and a physical portion. That idea intrigued me and soon I tried to apply the idea to make a model of a photon as being composed of millions of these oscillating life-particles. I had mainly my intuition to guide me. My photon model soon contained a single circulating energy entity (a superluminal energy quantum) traveling helically at a 45 degree angle with the speed c sqrt(2) and a total momentum along a helical trajectory of (h/lambda) sqrt(2). The energy quantum's helical radius is the photon’s wavelength lambda divided by 2 pi. This result came out of the requirement that the photon model should have its experimental value of spin hbar (or minus hbar) generated by the transverse component of the superluminal energy quantum's total momentum along its helical trajectory, while having the transluminal energy quantum’s longitudinal component of momentum be the photon's linear momentum p=h/lambda.<br class=""><br class=""> I then modeled the electron as a closed charged photon-like object. I knew very little about the Dirac equation except its prediction of antimatter and that the electron has a 4pi rotational symmetry. I also found that a single closed-loop of one wavelength of a photon (the Compton wavelength h/mc) with the electron’s rest energy mc^2 yields a spin of 1 hbar — twice the value of the electron’s spin. It hit me that making a double-loop of a single wavelength photon produces an electron model with a spin of 1/2 hbar.<br class=""><br class=""> While making my electron model I realized that it should also have the electron’s magnetic moment M — approximately the magnitude of the Bohr magneton (e hbar)/2m. I set the electron model to have the Bohr magneton for its magnetic moment by adjusting the radius of the closed helical path of the helically moving charged superluminal energy quantum so that its helically circulating charge generates the Dirac equation electron's Bohr magneton for the electron model. (Choosing a slightly larger helical radius generates the electron’s exact experimental value of magnetic moment which is a little larger than the Bohr magneton’s magnitude.)<br class=""><br class=""> Later I started analyzing other people’s cyclical models of the electron more closely. I found that Dirac had claimed that electrons actually move at the speed of light, but that only a sub-luminal speed can be observed. I found two analyses of the Dirac equation that suggested that the path of a moving electron’s charge can be described as light-speed along an open helix. This gave me the idea to fit my model of the circulating charged photon for a resting electron to this light-speed helical approach. I realized that the circulating photon in the electron model would have an increased frequency f corresponding to its increased total energy gamma mc^2 when the electron moves forward, and that the corresponding wavelength of this circulating charged photon would decrease with this increasing frequency, in order to keep the speed of light of the circulating charged photon constant. The radius of the charged photon’s helix was found to decrease with increasing electron velocity by the factor gamma^2 in order for the photon’s wavelength to decrease as described as the frequency of the charged photon increases with increasing electron speed and total energy. All the math worked out nicely, including the generation of the electron’s spin 1/2 hbar for a slow moving electron from the tangential component mc of the charged photon’s total momentum gamma mc along its helical axis, multiplied by the radius hbar/2mc of the charged photon’s helical axis for a slow moving electron. And I realized that any speed-of-light double-looping photon model for an electron should also follow a corresponding helical path whose radius decreases in the same way with the electron’s increase speed. This is because the result only depends on the relations E=hf, p=h/lambda , and c= lambda f , the basic quantum energy and momentum equations for a photon and the equation for wave motion with speed c.<br class=""><br class=""> Although I knew that any acceptable electron model would have to generate the relativistic de Broglie wavelength Ldb = h/(gamma mv) , I was quite surprised that this result falls out so easily from the circulating charged photon model of a moving electron, where the longitudinal component of the circulating charged photon’s wave vector k yields the wave number that corresponds to the relativistic de Broglie wavelength. Furthermore, this simple result for the origin of the electron’s de Broglie wavelength suggests that the quantum wave functions for a moving electron, which depend heavily on the electron's de Broglie wavelength, are produced mathematically from the waves generated by the circulating charged photon that models the electron.<br class=""><br class=""> Richard<br class=""><br class="">> On Feb 28, 2015, at 6:47 AM, Chip Akins <<a href="mailto:chipakins@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="" style="text-decoration: underline; color: purple;"><span class="" style="color: purple;">chipakins@gmail.com</span></a>> wrote:<br class="">><br class="">> Hi Richard and ALL<br class="">><br class="">> You asked for a comparison of electron models.<br class="">><br class="">> Since 1986, while having lunch with a mathematician, Eric Peterson, I have felt that the electron was made up of EM waves, or a photon.<br class="">><br class="">> Several of us have come to the same conclusion.<br class="">><br class="">> When I saw your model from 2005 many things started to make sense. That is why I was so excited and interested to fully pursue the math to try to deeply understand your TEQ model. It was quite informative and inspiring to see your work.<br class="">><br class="">> Since that time, principally due to an Occam's razor argument, I have returned to the view that TEQ's are not required to model the electron. While I still feel that it may be possible that TEQ's exist, I do not find, in my view, that it is required for the modeling of the photon and electron.<br class="">><br class="">> When I later saw John W and Martin's work from 1997 I was again very interested, principally because they were saying the same thing I was thinking, in general.<br class="">><br class="">> While running the math and testing the model from John W and Martin, it occurred to me that we had to have some sort of photon model to build the electron from. So I produced the simplest model I could imagine which would fulfill what I felt then was the basic criteria. My view of the basic criteria has since changed due to this collaboration, so I am working now to update my electron model. However it seems most of the electron model remains intact.<br class="">><br class="">> The fundamental differences between my model and John W. and Martin's model are as follows:<br class="">><br class="">> I found that wave interference may be precisely the cause for the exact value of the magnetic moment anomaly, and the cause for the exact value for the elementary charge.<br class="">><br class="">> That wave interference, incidentally, produces a new view of the fine structure constant in the electron.<br class="">><br class="">> My motivation, in part, to do this work, was because we have to provide an electron model which is simple in comparison, and competes with current theory and models in accuracy, before such a model will be considered a viable alternative.<br class="">><br class="">> My model currently falls short of some of the goals that I feel we will need, in order for our work to be considered noteworthy and to be eventually accepted.<br class="">><br class="">> My model also demonstrates the cause for inertial mass, but I think John W. and Martin's model may illustrate the same property. And in fact, all confined photon models may show the same attribute of inertial mass.<br class="">><br class="">> There are implications of the work we are doing which we also need to discuss. If Matter is made from light, when you think about its implications on relativity, leads to the existence of a preferred reference rest frame in space, leading us toward Chandra's view and CTF.<br class="">><br class="">> Working with all of you is both enlightening and inspiring.<br class="">><br class="">> Chip<br class="">><br class="">><br class="">><br class="">><br class="">> -----Original Message-----<br class="">> From: General<br class="">> [mailto:<a href="mailto:general-bounces%2Bchipakins" target="_blank" class="" style="text-decoration: underline; color: purple;"><span class="" style="color: purple;">general-bounces+chipakins</span></a>=<a href="mailto:gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandpart" target="_blank" class="" style="text-decoration: underline; color: purple;"><span class="" style="color: purple;">gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandpart</span></a><br class="">><span class=""> </span><a href="http://icles.org/" target="_blank" class="" style="text-decoration: underline; color: purple;"><span class="" style="color: purple;">icles.org</span></a>] On Behalf Of Richard Gauthier<br class="">> Sent: Friday, February 27, 2015 11:10 PM<br class="">> To: Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion<br class="">> Subject: [General] double-loop electron model discussion<br class="">><br class="">> I would like to start a thread that focuses on comparing and contrasting the various double-loop electron models, mainly John and Martin’s (J/M's), Chip’s, Vivian's and mine, and any others that people may know of, to find any common areas of agreement, and any points of difference. I think we are all agreed that the resting electron in our various models has spin 1/2 hbar. Chip’s model is based on J/M's model. I’d like to ask Chip, if I might, what commonalities and differences exist between J/M’s electron model and Chip's electron model. 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