<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=windows-1252"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div class="">John D.,</div><div class=""> Thank you for your thoughtful comments. Please help me to understand them better. On the one hand, you have claimed least a couple of times on this thread that matter is made of light. On the other hand you say that the idea that a photon (i.e. light) can be electrically charged is nonsense. So my question to you is: how can matter such as electrons be made of light if the light that electrons are made of is not electrically charged? Where’s the electron’s electric charge if it is not associated with the light that the electron is made of? Have you considered and eliminated the possibility that there may be two types or expressions of the photon, one uncharged and the other charged? Since the nature and origin of electric charge is not understood at all, I think it is bit premature to dismiss the concept of an electrically charged photon that composes the electron. </div><div class=""> I agree with you that the scientific enterprise has its vested interests and that those proposing revolutionary physics ideas outside the central paradigm are persona non grata to some of these folks. Still, the American Physical Society is willing to give out-of-the-box ideas a forum at their annual conferences. I will be presenting a short talk on the electron as a charged photon with the de Broglie wavelength at their annual April meeting in Baltimore. Andrew read the article and noted the derivation of the de Broglie wavelength from the circulating charged photon model. John W. commented that the model has something going for it. I would like to know if you have found any holes in the derivation of the de Broglie wavelength in the model, because it is one of the model’s most notable features. And if the charged photon model of the electron is shown to be wrong, we’ve still learned something. But if such new ideas can’t be proposed and discussed openly and critically in this group, where on earth can they be discussed?</div><div class=""> with warm regards,</div><div class=""> Richard</div><br class=""><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Mar 11, 2015, at 1:41 AM, John Duffield <<a href="mailto:johnduffield@btconnect.com" class="">johnduffield@btconnect.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class="">
<meta content="text/html; charset=Windows-1252" http-equiv="Content-Type" class="">
<div style="WORD-WRAP: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space" dir="ltr" class="">
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<div style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri;" class="">
<div class="">Richard:</div>
<div class=""> </div>
<div class="">In an ideal world a consensus would emerge wherein everybody would agree on
the electron. This is supported by hard scientific evidence such as pair
production and electron diffraction and refraction, the Einstein-de Haas effect,
magnetic moment, electron spin, atomic orbitals where electrons “exist as
standing waves”, and annihilation to gamma photons. It’s pretty obvious that an
electron is a photon going round and round with some kind of spin <font style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt" class="">½ 720-degree rotation, and that electron mass is the
result of this. When you annihilate the electron with the positron, you’ve
got a radiating body losing mass, just like <a href="https://www.fourmilab.ch/etexts/einstein/E_mc2/www/" class="">Einstein’s paper</a>.
What could <em class="">be</em> more obvious? </font></div>
<div class=""><font style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt" class=""></font> </div>
<div class=""><font style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt" class="">And yet John can’t get his paper on the
arXiv, because in this imperfect world there are vested interests who stand
four-square in the way of scientific progress. They will use anything they can
to discredit an idea. If they can find one little flaw they will magnify it and
maliciously claim that the author is some amateur crackpot who has got
everything else wrong, and who should be dismissed and disregarded. With
respect, your charged photon falls into that bracket: <em class="">a photon is not a
charged particle, ergo the whole idea is nonsense</em>. I would urge you
to think deeply about this, not just because of yourself, but because of the
impact it could have on this group. </font></div>
<div class=""><font style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt" class=""></font> </div>
<div class=""><font style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt" class="">All: </font></div>
<div class=""><font style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt" class=""></font> </div>
<div class=""><font style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt" class="">I would recommend a similar caution. If
there’s anything you’re tempted to say that might turn out to be wrong, be aware
that there are malicious people out there who will use it against you and the
group. It’s one thing to kick things around in group emails, but it’s another
thing to include it in a paper. If in doubt, leave it out.
</font></div>
<div class=""><font style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt" class=""></font> </div>
<div class="">Regards</div>
<div class="">John</div>
<div class=""> </div>
<div style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri;" class=""></div>
<div style="font-size: small; text-decoration: none; font-family: Calibri; font-weight: normal; font-style: normal; display: inline;" class="">
<div style="FONT: 10pt tahoma" class="">
<div class=""> </div>
<div style="BACKGROUND: #f5f5f5" class="">
<div style="font-color: black" class=""><b class="">From:</b> <a title="richgauthier@gmail.com" href="mailto:richgauthier@gmail.com" class="">Richard Gauthier</a> </div>
<div class=""><b class="">Sent:</b> Wednesday, March 11, 2015 6:18 AM</div>
<div class=""><b class="">To:</b> <a title="general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" class="">Nature of Light and
Particles - General Discussion</a> </div>
<div class=""><b class="">Subject:</b> Re: [General] double-loop electron model
discussion</div></div></div>
<div class=""> </div></div>
<div style="font-size: small; text-decoration: none; font-family: Calibri; font-weight: normal; font-style: normal; display: inline;" class="">Hello
John,
<div class=""> Thank you for your further clarifications. I think that your
and Martin’s 1997 electron model (with its ongoing improvements) still leads the
(somewhat rarified) field, though Chip’s model may be catching up fast. My
charged photon model of the electron seems to be waiting in the wings, although
I think it has one or two things going for it, such as its simplicity (but not
too simple), its generality (it could accommodate a variety of different photon
models), its resemblance to Dirac’s light-speed electron, and its ease of
generating the relativistic de Broglie wavelength of a moving electron.
The charged photon model only requires that the charged photon has the photon
properties E=hf, p=h/lambda and c=f lambda, and move in a closed
double-looped path of 1 Compton wavelength h/mc in the case of a resting
electron (thus generating zitterbewegung motion and a natural spin of 1/2 hbar).
You and Martin have said that your photon with toroidal topology is not charged,
but I think you will agree that this model, when moving through physical space,
will be closely accompanied by its effective electric charge. And that may be
close enough to say that this circulating photon is charged, even though the
circulating photon's charge is not moving at light-speed with the photon. A
resting electron has “rest mass". The circulating photon composing the electron
therefore has “rest mass" (or inertia) also, which it somehow gets by confining
itself. I think we all somehow agree about this. </div>
<div class=""> As Bohr once said to Pauli, “we all agree that your new model
is crazy. Where we differ is whether it is crazy enough.”</div>
<div class=""> Richard</div>
<div class="">
<div class=""> </div>
<div class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">On Mar 9, 2015, at 10:19 PM, John Williamson <<a href="mailto:John.Williamson@glasgow.ac.uk" class="">John.Williamson@glasgow.ac.uk</a>>
wrote:</div>
<div class=""> </div>
<div class="">
<div style="WHITE-SPACE: normal; WORD-SPACING: 0px; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; DIRECTION: ltr; FONT: 10pt tahoma; LETTER-SPACING: normal; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px" class="">Oh
dear me,<br class=""><br class="">I am trying to clarify the meaning of Martin and my old model,
but I seem just to be confusing everyone more. Apologies for this. I think we
should perhaps try to concentrate on saying what our our models mean - and not
say what other models mean. At the risk of sowing (yet more) confusion
...<br class=""><br class="">No, no no (and no).<br class=""><br class="">No: I did not say the photon spin in the
electron model was 1 hbar, but that the result was a full twist. To define
spin one needs a spin axis and there is no single axis for (the photon) spin.
It tumbles, giving a "quantum bicycle" motion. The spin may be seen as being
more like 1-1/2 = 1/2 - but this is far too simple and not the way it was put
in. It was calculated by integration - not by adding numbers.<br class=""><br class="">No -the
differences you suggest are not the differences I see. For me, some
differences are<br class=""><br class="">The EFFECTIVE half integral spin comes from the initial
photon MOMENTUM , not its angular momentum. This is just R(eff) cross p (as
you say for your model). The characteristic R (eff) is, for us lc/4pi
precisely because the mode structure is a single wavelength. This R is not in
the same space as the fields, but in a space related by division (by
differentiation - to be more precise). THe two valuedness comes, for us,
because that space is more closely related to complex numbers (scalar aND
PSEUDOSCALaR SPACE) than to 3D space or 4D space and time.<br class=""><br class="">The reason
this is a fermion is that the resultant complete motion is A) double covering,
and B) interferes to give a (strong) repulsive force for same state systems.
It is only secondarily that this happens to integrate to give an, overall ,
half integral spin numerically. The numerics are, once again, not really
important for the model. Real photons may have (and, as Chandra pointed out,
are measured experimentally to have) any spin. 1 hbar is a limit, not a
rule.<br class=""><br class="">No we do (and did not ) put the "Harmony of phases" in: it comes
out.<br class=""><br class="">We do not put charge in: it comes out.<br class=""><br class="">All paths in our
model are lightspeed. There are no superluminal (or subluminal) paths.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""><br class="">Our electron is not a little
donut whizzing around in space (this would be inconsistent with the
experimental observation that electrons are, apparently, spherically
symmetric) - but in the projected space of the fields and momenta.<br class=""><br class="">Your
argument about the increase in the angular momentum would be true for a
charged photon on a rigid bar attached to a real axis. This is not the same
model as we use.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""><br class="">In your
argument about soin you seem to be mixing the transformation properties of
fields with those of material particles. The reason a photon angular momentum
remains constant under a Lorentz transformation (not in the 1997 paper but in
the 2014 paper not in arXiv) is that, to maintain linearity, the transverse
size scales inversely with the energy. This is because fields transform
TRANSVERSE ONLY under a Lorentz transformation, not along the direction of
motion LONGITUDINALLY ONLY(as do the velocities or momenta). There is a good
discussion about this in Stephen's thesis.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">What this means is that photons
shrink laterally at the inverse rate as their energy-momentum increases -
hence keeping a constant angular momentum. This scaling happens for photons
(experimentally) for field (relativistically), and also for any electron made
of a photon or photons. Real electrons also, do not exhibit a spin about an
axis under all circumstances, but only if one tries to measure them (against
an experimental axis) - in which case one gets one of two values - spin "up"
or spin " down". That two-valuedness is, pretty much, what SU(2) is in the
standard model.<br class=""><br class="">On the concept of "charged" photon. Charge is a
non-zero field divergence. Such a thing, necessarily, has a rest mass
associated with it - just from the integral of field squared in the frame
where it is spherical (for Beamon, in the example I just circulated). One then
has a rest-massive photon. For me the definition of a photon is that it is
rest-massless. The charge, for me comes about because of the local
confinement. This means that saying "charged photon" sounds to me like saying
"massless mass". This is probably just my problem!<br class=""><br class="">Ho-hum ... hope I
have not made things even worse!<br class=""><br class="">Regards, John.<br class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 16px; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'" class="">
<hr tabindex="-1" class="">
<div id="divRpF185967" style="DIRECTION: ltr" class=""><font size="2" face="Tahoma" class=""><b class="">From:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>General
[<a href="mailto:general-bounces+john.williamson=glasgow.ac.uk@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" class="">general-bounces+john.williamson=glasgow.ac.uk@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>]
on behalf of Richard Gauthier [<a href="mailto:richgauthier@gmail.com" class="">richgauthier@gmail.com</a>]<br class=""><b class="">Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Tuesday, March 10, 2015 1:27
AM<br class=""><b class="">To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Nature of Light
and Particles - General Discussion<br class=""><b class="">Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [General] double-loop electron
model discussion<br class=""></font><br class=""></div>
<div class=""></div>
<div class="">
<div class="">Hi Chip, John and Martin,</div>
<div class=""> </div>
<div class="">First let me answer, for the case of the charged photon model, the basic
questions that I posed to both of you about your models, as a basis for a
preliminary comparison of the three models based on their size, internal
frequency and internal wavelength. Vivian is welcome to jump in also, and
anyone else with a photon-based, or light-speed or non-light-speed
charge-based electron model.</div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""> </div></div>
<div class="">
<div style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><font face="Helvetica, sans-serif" class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt" class="">My first set of questions was: What is the spin of the
circulating photon in your model? Is its spin 1 hbar even though your electron
model has net spin 1/2 hbar? If so, is this spin 1 hbar of your electron
model’s photon observable? If not, in what sense does this circulating photon
have spin 1 hbar? John said that it is 1 hbar in his and Martin's model, while
Chip </span>said<span style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt" class=""> that it is 1/2 hbar in his model
due to being confined.</span></font></div></div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: helvetica, sans-serif" class=""><br class=""></span></div>
<div style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><font face="Helvetica, sans-serif" class="">First, my
current proposal (“The electron is a charged photon with the de Broglie
wavelength” ) does not contain a specific photon model (I have not inserted
into it my internally superluminal photon model from previous work). The
current proposal does assume that for the charged photon, c=L f , E=hf
and P=h/L , where c= speed of light, f is photon frequency, L is
photon wavelength, E is photon energy and P is photon momentum, the same
relations as for an uncharged photon. </font></div>
<div style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><font face="Helvetica, sans-serif" class=""><br class=""></font></div>
<div style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><font face="Helvetica, sans-serif" class="">Answers:
The instantaneous spin of the circulating charged photon in a resting electron
in the charged photon model would have to be 1/2 hbar if it is to remain
constant for a moving electron model. This instantaneous spin 1/2 hbar
averages out to zero in the case of a resting electron model (as John's and
Martin’s spin 1 hbar photon does also). In the charged photon model, the
electron's spin Sz = 1/2 hbar is due to the r x Ptransverse of the circulating
photon around the circular radius hbar/2mc. But in the case of a relativistic
electron moving in the z-direction (x-y is the photon’s plane in a resting
electron), the charged photon moves in a helical trajectory and has a NON-ZERO
average spin component along the z-axis. As the electron becomes more
relativistic, the spin 1/2 hbar of the helically circulating photon along the
z-axis dominates the spin caused by r x Ptransverse, which now goes to zero
since the helical radius r decreases as 1/gamma^2 in a relativistic electron
while Ptransverse remains constant even and the electron’s linear momentum
increases. The charged photon model continues to have spin 1/2 hbar at
relativistic velocities. This is now due to the spin 1/2 hbar of the
circulating photon in the resting electron that now is moving mostly in the z
direction and not averaging out to zero. So even though the spin 1/2 of the
circulating photon in the resting electron is not manifested, this spin 1/2
hbar photon spin manifests more and more in a moving and then relativistic
electron. If the instantaneous spin of the circulating photon in a resting
electron were 1 hbar, the electron’s Sz would go from spin 1/2 hbar in a slow
moving electron to spin 1 hbar as the speed of the electron increased and
became relativistic. This would violate conservation of angular momentum for
the moving electron.</font></div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: helvetica, sans-serif" class=""><br class=""></span></div>
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: helvetica, sans-serif" class=""> My
second set of questions: Does the circulating photon move along a helical
trajectory when the electron model has velocity v perpendicular to the plane
of its circulating photon’s closed circle trajectory when at rest? If so, does
the radius of this helical trajectory continue to be hbar/2mc as the
electron model's speed increases, or does the radius of this helical
trajectory change with electron speed by some factor? Does the
circulating photon’s frequency of circulation increase in proportion to the
total energy E=gamma mc^2 of the electron? If so, does the circulating
photon's wavelength correspondingly decrease inversely proportional to
gamma? If not, how does the photon’s frequency depend on the electron
model’s velocity?</span></div></div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: helvetica, sans-serif" class=""><br class=""></span></div>
<div style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><font face="Helvetica, sans-serif" class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt" class="">Answers: These questions are partially answered above
for the charged </span>photon model.<span style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt" class=""> The
circulating charged photon does move in a helical trajectory whose radius is
Ro/gamma^2 where Ro is hbar/2mc , the radius of the circular axis of a resting
electron. This decreasing helical radius with gamma^2 is required if the
photon is to </span>keep moving at light-speed as its frequency increases in
proportion to gamma (due to the increasing speed and total energy of the
electron) while its wavelength decreases in proportion to 1/gamma (to keep c
of the charged photon constant). <span style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt" class="">The
</span>circulating charged photon’s frequency f DOES increase in proportion to
the electron’s (or charged photon’s) total energy E=gamma mc^2 = hf . The
circulating charged photon’s wavelength L DOES decrease as the electron’s
speed increases, as L=h/(gamma mc)= Lcompton/gamma.</font></div>
<div style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><font face="Helvetica, sans-serif" class=""><br class=""></font></div>
<div style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><font face="Helvetica, sans-serif" class="">John’s and
Martin’s model generates the de Broglie wavelength by the “harmony of phases”
approach used by de Broglie. In terms of how John’s and Martin’s electron size
scales down with increasing speed, the blue-shifted portion of the model
decreases with size and seems to account (along with the single particle
nature of the photon) for the small apparent size of the electron in high
energy collisions. (Their explanation: the electron size scales with the
blue-shifted photon size at higher energies since the electron is
electromagnetic in nature). This model assumes that both blue and red doppler
shifting are produced as the electron moves faster and faster in a sideways
direction. But if the electron’s velocity is in the same direction as the
electron’s spin, the motion is all forward (blue) shifting and no reverse
(red) shifting, isn’t it, as the photon composing the electron always moves
helically forward in the z direction. Presumably John’s and Martin’s
explanation for the scaling of a high energy electron's size would still apply
here?</font></div>
<div style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><font face="Helvetica, sans-serif" class=""><br class=""></font></div>
<div style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><font face="Helvetica, sans-serif" class="">Chip’s
method of generating the de Broglie wavelength from his model seems
essentially the same as mine — the decreasing L of the circulating photon
gives a longitudinal component of its wave vector k along the longitudinal
direction, which generates the de Broglie wavelength of the electron. But
Chip’s electron model, like John’s and Martin’s model (and the charged photon
model also) could generate the de Broglie wavelength by the “harmony of
phases” approach. This approach is consistent with (but more complicated than)
the charged photon’s de Broglie wavelength-generating approach.</font></div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: helvetica, sans-serif" class=""></span> </div>
<div style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><font face="Helvetica, sans-serif" class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt" class="">I have only </span>tried to extract a beginning
comparison of these three models based on their basic size, frequency and
internal wavelength parameters and how these may change with the electron's
motion.</font></div>
<div style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><font face="Helvetica, sans-serif" class="">Please
correct any errors in my description of your models.</font></div>
<div style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><font face="Helvetica, sans-serif" class="">
</font></div>
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: helvetica, sans-serif" class="">
with warm regards,</span></div></div>
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: helvetica, sans-serif" class="">
Richard</span></div></div></div>
<div class=""> </div>
<div class=""> </div>
<div class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">On Mar 9, 2015, at 9:19 AM, Chip Akins <<a href="mailto:chipakins@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">chipakins@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:</div>
<div class=""> </div>
<div class="">
<div class="WordSection1" style="WHITE-SPACE: normal; WORD-SPACING: 0px; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; FONT: 12px helvetica; LETTER-SPACING: normal; TEXT-INDENT: 0px">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span class="">Hi
Richard</span></div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span class=""></span> </div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span class="">To
answer your questions regarding my electron model…</span></div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span class=""></span> </div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span class="">Richard
Wrote:</span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: helvetica, sans-serif" class=""><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>“What is the spin of the
circulating photon with toroidal topology in your model? Is it spin 1 hbar
even though your electron model has spin 1/2 hbar? If so, is this spin 1
hbar of your electron model’s photon observable? If not, in what sense does
this circulating photon have spin 1 hbar?”</span><span class=""></span></div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span class=""></span> </div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span class="">In
my model the spin of the photon itself, when confined, is changed, and
becomes the spin of the electron. My model uses a circular plane wave model
for the confined photon. There is no required toroidal topology in the
model, but certain toroidal topologies (if defined correctly) may work just
as well. The hbar spin of the photon creates a velocity vector, the square
root of 2 times<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><i class="">c</i>. This is the
circulation velocity of the photon confined in the electron with a spin of ½
hbar. The new R<sub class="">0</sub><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span style="FONT-FAMILY: calibri, sans-serif" class="">transport radius,<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span class="">for the electron is
then<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span style="FONT-FAMILY: calibri, sans-serif" class="">2.73055834982988E-13m. When
field interference at the center of rotation is accounted for, the effective
electromagnetic radius is larger than the transport radius, so that the
effective EM radius is 1.001159601916102 times larger than the transport
radius.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><i class="">This yields the
exact values for charge and magnetic moment of the
electron.</i></span><span class=""></span></div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span class="">Without
including this velocity correction to the fields we cannot obtain enough
“charge” to get the actual value of<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><i class="">e</i>, the elementary charge, so
this is a critical point. If we keep the velocity c, for the internal
circulation velocity in a double looped electron model which generated
topological charge, we either wind up with a magnetic moment anomaly, or
with insufficient charge.</span></div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span class=""></span> </div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span class="">Richard
Wrote:</span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: helvetica, sans-serif" class=""><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>“Does the circulating photon with
toroidal topology move along a helical trajectory when the electron model
has velocity v perpendicular to the plane of its circulating photon’s closed
circle trajectory when at rest? If so, does the radius of this helical
trajectory continue to be hbar/2mc (the same as for your resting electron
model) as the electron model's speed increases, or does the radius of this
helical trajectory change with electron speed by some factor? Does the
circulating photon’s frequency of circulation increase in proportion to the
total energy E=gamma mc^2 of the electron? If so, does the circulating
photon's wavelength correspondingly decrease inversely proportional to
gamma? If not, how does the photon’s frequency depend on the electron
model’s velocity?”</span></div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span class=""></span> </div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span class="">My
electron model, when accelerated, is described by:</span></div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span class=""></span> </div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span class="">Electron
energy<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; POSITION: relative; TOP: 3pt" class=""><span id="cid:image001.png@01D05A5A.F168D440" class=""><image001.png></span></span></div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class="">Photon
frequency<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; POSITION: relative; TOP: 7pt" class=""><span id="cid:image003.png@01D05A5A.F168D440" class=""><image003.png></span></span><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>= Electron Frequency<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; POSITION: relative; TOP: 7pt" class=""><span id="cid:image005.png@01D05A5A.F168D440" class=""><image005.png></span></span></div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class="">Photon
wavelength<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; POSITION: relative; TOP: 8.5pt" class=""><span id="cid:image006.png@01D05A5A.F168D440" class=""><image006.png></span></span></div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class="">Transport
radius<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; POSITION: relative; TOP: 7pt" class=""><span id="cid:image007.png@01D05A5A.F168D440" class=""><image007.png></span></span></div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""> </div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class="">Where<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; POSITION: relative; TOP: 3pt" class=""><span id="cid:image008.png@01D05A5A.F168D440" class=""><image008.png></span></span><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>is Lorentz correction,<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; POSITION: relative; TOP: 4.5pt" class=""><span id="cid:image009.png@01D05A5A.F168D440" class=""><image009.png></span></span><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>is the square root of 2 times
c.</div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""> </div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class="">So
with acceleration the energy increases, frequency increases, radius
decreases, etc.</div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""> </div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class="">Are
there portions of these items which I have failed to make clear in the
paper? Not always the best at communication some of the detail.</div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""> </div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class="">Chip<span class=""></span></div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span class=""></span> </div>
<div class="">
<div style="BORDER-TOP: rgb(225,225,225) 1pt solid; BORDER-BOTTOM-STYLE: none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-TOP: 3pt; BORDER-RIGHT-STYLE: none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; BORDER-LEFT-STYLE: none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in" class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><b class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: calibri, sans-serif" class="">From:</span></b><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: calibri, sans-serif" class=""><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>General [<a style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline; COLOR: purple" href="mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank" class="">mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>]<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="">On Behalf Of<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Richard
Gauthier<br class=""><b class="">Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Monday, March 09, 2015 10:34
AM<br class=""><b class="">To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Nature of
Light and Particles - General Discussion<br class=""><b class="">Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [General] double-loop electron
model discussion</span></div></div></div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""> </div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class="">Chip,
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class="">
Could you please also answer the short questions below about your electron
model, that I put to John and Martin about their electron model. This might
turn into a small survey about features in common or different among the
various photon-based models of the electron.Thanks.</div></div>
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class="">
By the way, I learned that Martin Rivas who also has a Dirac related
electron model is following me on ResearchGate. John W. knows his work also.
Rivas has a speed-of-light trajectory of a helically circulating point
charge in his electron model.</div></div>
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class="">
Richard</div></div>
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""> </div>
<div class="">
<blockquote style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt; MARGIN-TOP: 5pt" type="cite" class="">
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class="">On
Mar 8, 2015, at 8:23 PM, Richard Gauthier <<a style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline; COLOR: purple" href="mailto:richgauthier@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">richgauthier@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div></div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""> </div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: helvetica, sans-serif" class="">John and
Martin,</span></div></div>
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: helvetica, sans-serif" class=""> I
have a few basic questions about your electron model that I don’t think
are answered in your paper. Short answers are OK, if possible. Longer
answers or explanations are welcome.</span></div></div>
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: helvetica, sans-serif" class="">My first set of
questions: What is the spin of the circulating photon with toroidal
topology in your model? Is it spin 1 hbar even though your electron model
has spin 1/2 hbar? If so, is this spin 1 hbar of your electron model’s
photon observable? If not, in what sense does this circulating photon have
spin 1 hbar?</span></div></div>
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: helvetica, sans-serif" class=""> My
second set of questions: Does the circulating photon with toroidal
topology move along a helical trajectory when the electron model has
velocity v perpendicular to the plane of its circulating photon’s closed
circle trajectory when at rest? If so, does the radius of this helical
trajectory continue to be hbar/2mc (the same as for your resting electron
model) as the electron model's speed increases, or does the radius of this
helical trajectory change with electron speed by some factor? Does
the circulating photon’s frequency of circulation increase in proportion
to the total energy E=gamma mc^2 of the electron? If so, does the
circulating photon's wavelength correspondingly decrease inversely
proportional to gamma? If not, how does the photon’s frequency
depend on the electron model’s velocity?</span></div></div>
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: helvetica, sans-serif" class="">
with warm regards,</span></div></div>
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: helvetica, sans-serif" class="">
Richard</span></div></div>
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: helvetica, sans-serif" class="">
</span></div></div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""> </div>
<div class="">
<blockquote style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt; MARGIN-TOP: 5pt" type="cite" class="">
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: helvetica, sans-serif" class="">On Mar 7,
2015, at 4:43 AM, John Duffield <<a style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline; COLOR: purple" href="mailto:johnduffield@btconnect.com" target="_blank" class="">johnduffield@btconnect.com</a>>
wrote:</span></div></div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: helvetica, sans-serif" class=""></span> </div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: calibri, sans-serif" class="">John:</span></div></div>
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: calibri, sans-serif" class=""></span> </div></div>
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: calibri, sans-serif" class="">Not good. I’m afraid there’s a
lot more censorship around than people appreciate.<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span></div></div>
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: calibri, sans-serif" class=""></span> </div></div>
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: calibri, sans-serif" class="">By the way, <span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><a title="http://www.amazon.co.uk/Science-Fiction-Phony-Particle-Physics/dp/1888820810/ref=tmm_pap_title_0?ie=UTF8&qid=1425732021&sr=1-1" style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline; COLOR: purple" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/Science-Fiction-Phony-Particle-Physics/dp/1888820810/ref=tmm_pap_title_0?ie=UTF8&qid=1425732021&sr=1-1" target="_blank" class="">the phony side of particle physics</a><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>was interesting reading.<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span></div></div>
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: calibri, sans-serif" class=""></span> </div></div>
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: calibri, sans-serif" class="">Regards</span></div></div>
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: calibri, sans-serif" class="">John</span></div></div>
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: calibri, sans-serif" class=""></span> </div></div>
<div class="">
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<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class=""></span> </div></div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(245,245,245)" class=""><b class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">From:</span></b><span class="apple-converted-space"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class=""> </span></span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class=""><a title="John.Williamson@glasgow.ac.uk" style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline; COLOR: purple" href="mailto:John.Williamson@glasgow.ac.uk" target="_blank" class="">John
Williamson</a></span></div></div>
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(245,245,245)" class=""><b class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">Sent:</span></b><span class="apple-converted-space"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class=""> </span></span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">Saturday, March
07, 2015 6:06 AM</span></div></div>
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(245,245,245)" class=""><b class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">To:</span></b><span class="apple-converted-space"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class=""> </span></span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class=""><a title="general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline; COLOR: purple" href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank" class="">Nature of Light and Particles - General
Discussion</a></span></div></div>
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(245,245,245)" class=""><b class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">Subject:</span></b><span class="apple-converted-space"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class=""> </span></span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">Re: [General]
double-loop electron model discussion</span></div></div></div></div>
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: calibri, sans-serif" class=""></span> </div></div></div>
<div class="">
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 12pt"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">Hihi .. look
what I just got from arxiv ...</span></p>
<div id="divSn" class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span class="rwrro"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">arXiv
Moderation [<a style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline; COLOR: purple" href="mailto:moderation@arxiv.org" target="_blank" class="">moderation@arxiv.org</a>]</span></span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class=""></span></div></div>
<div id="divActionIcons" class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; BORDER-TOP: windowtext 1pt solid; FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif; BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 1pt solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 1pt solid; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 1pt solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in" class=""><span id="cid:~WRD000.jpg" class=""><~WRD000.jpg></span><span id="cid:~WRD000.jpg" class=""><~WRD000.jpg></span><span id="cid:~WRD000.jpg" class=""><~WRD000.jpg></span></span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class=""></span></div></div>
<div id="divActions" class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">Actions<span style="BORDER-TOP: windowtext 1pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 1pt solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 1pt solid; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 1pt solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in" class=""><span id="cid:~WRD000.jpg" class=""><~WRD000.jpg></span></span></span></div></div>
<div id="divSelDisplay" class="">
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<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span class="nowrap"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">To:</span></span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class=""></span></div></div>
<div class="">
<div id="divFieldTo" class="">
<div id="divTo" class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class=""> <span class="rwrro">John
Williamson</span> </span></div></div></div></div></div></div>
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<div id="divSubFs" class="">
<div id="divFs" class="">
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class=""></span> </div></div></div></div>
<div id="divSubSent" class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">Friday, March
06, 2015 7:24 PM</span></div></div></div></div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">Your submission
has been removed upon a notice from our moderators, who determined it
inappropriate for arXiv. Our moderators suggest that you please
send your paper to a conventional journal instead. <span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""><br class="">Please do not resubmit
this paper without contacting moderation for permission, and obtaining a
positive response. Resubmission of removed papers may result in
suspension of submission privileges.<br class=""><br class="">For more information on our
moderation policies see:<br class=""><br class=""> <span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><a style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline; COLOR: purple" href="http://arxiv.org/help/moderation" target="_blank" class="">http://arxiv.org/help/moderation</a><br class=""><br class="">--<br class="">arXiv
moderation</span></div>
<div class="">
<div class="MsoNormal" style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; TEXT-ALIGN: center; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" align="center">
<hr align="center" size="2" width="100%" class="">
</div>
<div id="divRpF847897" class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 12pt"><b class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">From:</span></b><span class="apple-converted-space"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class=""> </span></span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">General [<a style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline; COLOR: purple" href="mailto:general-bounces+john.williamson=glasgow.ac.uk@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank" class="">general-bounces+john.williamson=glasgow.ac.uk@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>]
on behalf of John Williamson [<a style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline; COLOR: purple" href="mailto:John.Williamson@glasgow.ac.uk" target="_blank" class="">John.Williamson@glasgow.ac.uk</a>]<br class=""><b class="">Sent:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Saturday, March 07, 2015 6:03
AM<br class=""><b class="">To:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Nature of
Light and Particles - General Discussion<br class=""><b class="">Subject:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [General] double-loop
electron model discussion</span></p></div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">Good for you
Richard,<br class=""><br class="">That is a very good starting point for discussion. The
reason Dirac did not model the electron as a charged object, however,
was that he was aware that this would produce problems for a light-
speed object, not that he missed something. Photons are not charged -
this is (for me) part of the essential difference between photons and
electrons (the other is the fermionic aspect). This needs to come out of
a proper theory, or model, not be put in a-priori. While I am proud of
Martin and my old model (in that it both derives charge and
half-integral spin), it is by no means the whole story two decades
later. I think it is unproductive to argue too much about what the old
models do or do not mean. The electron is no more, simply, a localised
photon, than the photon is a pure overlap state of a couple of
electrons. We need to develop the new theory to explain both photon and
electron from first principles, deriving both charge and fermions from
bosons - and explaining why the basic fermions can carry charge, whereas
(the W's notwithstanding) wheres the rest-massless boson does not. I do
not think the W or the Z are "fundamental" either, but their properties
should (equally) emerge from the proper theory that Martin and I are
working on.<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""><br class="">Also
the statements of Hestenes and Rivas, are not "results" in the
experimental sense, but theoretical speculations. They cannot and must
not be taken as god given. I'm hoping to write a proper explanation of
some of the seminal experiments on the experimental point properties of
the electron later this weekend. I was lucky enough to have been the
actual person who carried out (two sets of the actual) seminal
experiments on this decades ago. It is about time I explained it
properly with the references - and hope to have a go at this
within this discussion forum if I can muster the time or energy to make
a proper job of it.<br class=""><br class="">Regards, John.</span></div>
<div class="">
<div class="MsoNormal" style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; TEXT-ALIGN: center; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" align="center">
<hr align="center" size="2" width="100%" class="">
</div>
<div id="divRpF7948" class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 12pt"><b class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">From:</span></b><span class="apple-converted-space"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class=""> </span></span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">General [<a style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline; COLOR: purple" href="mailto:general-bounces+john.williamson=glasgow.ac.uk@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank" class="">general-bounces+john.williamson=glasgow.ac.uk@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>]
on behalf of Richard Gauthier [<a style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline; COLOR: purple" href="mailto:richgauthier@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">richgauthier@gmail.com</a>]<br class=""><b class="">Sent:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Saturday, March 07, 2015 5:42
AM<br class=""><b class="">To:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Nature of
Light and Particles - General Discussion<br class=""><b class="">Subject:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [General] double-loop
electron model discussion</span></p></div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class="">Hi
John W., Martin, Andrew and others,</div></div>
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""> </div></div>
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class="">
I think that the present company can mostly agree about one feature
common to our various electron models — they are composed in some way of
a double-looping photon of basic radius hbar/2mc, which is the Compton
wavelength h/mc divided by 4pi . This is also the characteristic
vibrational amplitude of the electron found from the Dirac equation. So
I think we’re on firm ground with our electron models here (though we
are a small group). But then differences are seen when we discuss the
nature and location of the electric charge of an electron.</div></div>
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""> </div></div>
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class="">
I think we need to keep in mind that Dirac claimed, based on his
equation and successful experimental predictions from his equation, that
the electron travels at light speed, although he says its observable
velocity is always less that light speed. The same could apply to the
electron’s charge. Hestenes and Rivas in separate analyses of the Dirac
equation found that the electron can be modeled as a light speed
electric charge moving in a helical trajectory of radius hbar/2mc. The
electron’s “center of charge” rotates around its “center of mass” at
light speed, claims Rivas. This is the case even when the electron
is at “rest” and the light-speed charge’s helical path becomes a closed
circular path. So John, when you say, as does Martin similarly, that
"<span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">Speed of
light "charge" cannot happen, in this picture, precisely because
of this frame-bound (rest-massive) form”<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span>you seem to be going
against these two Dirac-equation related analyses which have the
electron’s charge moving at light-speed even in a resting electron. How
do you explain this discrepency between your electron model and these
results?</div></div>
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""> </div></div>
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class="">
Now Dirac did not claim that the electron is a helically-circulating
charged photon. Neither did de Broglie. Both had the opportunity to do
so, starting with de Broglie's E=mc^2=hf for the stationary
electron. In my opinion, if either had, and had then derived the
de Broglie wavelength from this charged photon, this view would be
commonly accepted as obvious today. But for some reason there seems to
have developed a collective “mental block” among physicists, starting
perhaps with de Broglie and persisting until today, that the equation
gamma mc^2=hf does NOT indicate that the moving electron is a kind of
photon, but rather that the electron is a material object with a certain
energy-related internal vibrational frequency which increases in
proportion to the total energy of the electron in a way that, due to a
“harmony of phases” leads to the de Broglie wavelength and the idea of
‘matter-waves’. Perhaps this collective mental block or dogmatic way of
thinking about electrons had its origin in Planck’s endowing his
proposed material oscillators in the walls of a blackbody’s cavity with
energies having integral multiples of hf. There is now also a kind of
dogma that photons have to have spin 1, so that the idea that the
electron can be a variety of photon with spin 1/2 is dismissed as
impossible or inconceivable, even laughable as a kind of logical
contradiction, if it presents itself to mind at all. All of this is
understandable. New ideas in physics are not easily accepted, and
rightly so. Dogmas, especially when they may have served some useful
purpose in the past, die hard.</div></div>
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""> </div></div>
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class="">
But I digress. Whether the electron’s charge moves at sub-light speed or
at light speed can be a point of reasonable disagreement. But the
various proposals that the electron is a double-looping photon with its
effective charge at the center of the loop (Williamson and van der
Mark), a double-looping light-speed electric charge (Hestenes, Rivas) or
a double-looping charged photon, all perhaps can claim at least some
rational support and could therefore form the basis for a common
presentation about the nature of the electron in relation to the
photon.</div></div>
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""> </div></div>
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class="">
with best regards,</div></div>
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class="">
Richard</div></div>
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""> </div></div>
<div class="">
<blockquote style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt; MARGIN-TOP: 5pt" type="cite" class="">
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class="">On
Mar 6, 2015, at 12:26 AM, John Williamson <<a style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline; COLOR: purple" href="mailto:John.Williamson@glasgow.ac.uk" target="_blank" class="">John.Williamson@glasgow.ac.uk</a>> wrote:</div></div>
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""> </div></div>
<div class="">
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 12pt"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">Agreed
Andrew,<br class=""><br class="">We need to realise that we are all "ignorant" in
certain respects - and indeed that "science" is also , presently,
completely ignorant in certain respects. We need to break this cycle
of ignorance. We need the picture to make sense in science as a whole.
If we (I hope!) come up with a complete picture, it must be
right everywhere and only just right - explaining, amongst other
things- both the nature of and reason for quantisation and the nature
of charge.<br class=""><br class="">In the paper I aim to present I hope to argue that
one can start from an underlying picture of continuous fields, show
how and why these must be quantised and then use that quantised (E=hf)
object to show why and how the (quantised) electron charge arises. In
that sense I would say that I then "know" what charge is - in terms of
the deeper set of principles used to describe it in terms of that
theory. Others may say that, within QED charge is that thing
which emits and absorbs photons, the carriers of the electromagnetic
force and may claim, therefore to "understand" what charge is. In my
view, there is a big difference between putting charge in a-priori and
understanding what it is. Likewise, in the Maxwell equations the
"charge" is understood simply as the electric field divergence. This
then begs the question of the nature of the charge. The fact that it
is defined here as a divergence means that it must have a form related
to a particular frame - just as Martin says. Speed of light "charge"
cannot happen, in this picture, precisely because of this
frame-bound (rest-massive) form.<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""><br class="">In our 1997 paper, we
put in (a subset of) the experimental properties of the (uncharged)
photon and got out an estimate of the charge. We demanded a set of
non-crossing, precisely lightspeed, paths. It was these starting
points that led to the properties we derived. The charge arose in this
model because the oscillating (a.c) photon field was re-configured to
give a (d.c.) radial component. That re-configuration (a knotting)
required an equal and opposite re-configuration an (antiknot) to give
a detailed, smooth transition from cartesian (corkscrew -zero
divergence) to toroidal (positive and negative radial) co-ordinates.
The half integral spin to what John D calls the Dirac belt trick. The
anomalous magnetic moment calculation to a rigorous demand that all
paths have the same phase length, and be precisely lightspeed. That
article is history though. Still good, I think, in terms of its
starting postulates, but we need to move on to a deeper theory that
gives BOTH electron AND photon solutions from an underlying
theory.<br class=""><br class="">As we talk about this I see many holes and fallacies in
what others are saying, I'm expecting (and hoping!), to be challenged
on my own areas of ignorance. This is best done on proper, carefully
argued papers, not loose emails with half-understood starting points
derived from other authority.<br class=""><br class="">It is through interaction and
proper discussion that ignorance can be resolved.<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""><br class="">Regards,
John.<br class=""><br class=""></span></p>
<div class="">
<div class="MsoNormal" style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; TEXT-ALIGN: center; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" align="center">
<hr align="center" size="2" width="100%" class="">
</div>
<div id="divRpF893494" class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 12pt"><b class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">From:</span></b><span class="apple-converted-space"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class=""> </span></span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">General [<a style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline; COLOR: purple" href="mailto:general-bounces+john.williamson=glasgow.ac.uk@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank" class="">general-bounces+john.williamson=glasgow.ac.uk@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>]
on behalf of Andrew Meulenberg [<a style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline; COLOR: purple" href="mailto:mules333@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">mules333@gmail.com</a>]<br class=""><b class="">Sent:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Friday, March 06, 2015 7:19
AM<br class=""><b class="">To:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Nature
of Light and Particles - General Discussion; Andrew
Meulenberg<br class=""><b class="">Cc:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>P.G.
Vaidya<br class=""><b class="">Subject:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [General] double-loop
electron model discussion</span></p></div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 12pt">Dear
Richard,</p></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 12pt">While
I agree with Martin, I think that we will need to discuss the issue in
person to iron out the pros & cons. I am presenting a paper at the
conference on the fields & potentials of an optical standing wave.
It will describe the differences between photonic 'charge' within the
photon and point charges. I will probably be using your paper as one
of the several references that talk of charge within a
photon.</p></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 12pt">When
we all have had time to read each others' papers (hopefully before
gathering at the conference), then we will be better able to
understand our respective positions and integrate the information into
a coherent, self-consistent, mutually acceptable, whole. I would like
the actual presentations from the multiple sources to present a
complete picture, not the repetitive fragments with the contradictions
that presently exist..</p></div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class="">Andrew</div></div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""> </div></div>
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class="">On
Fri, Mar 6, 2015 at 12:14 PM, Richard Gauthier<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><<a style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline; COLOR: purple" href="mailto:richgauthier@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">richgauthier@gmail.com</a>><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>wrote:<br class=""><br class=""></div>
<blockquote style="BORDER-TOP-STYLE: none; BORDER-BOTTOM-STYLE: none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-RIGHT-STYLE: none; PADDING-LEFT: 6pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 4.8pt; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1pt solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in" type="cite" class="">
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class="">Hello
Martin,<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></div>
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class="">
Thank you for your thoughtful comments and questions. You are right
that any complete model of the electron would include the origin of
electric charge. No one currently understands the nature and origin
of electric charge—that’s why there are various models of the
electron. To say that electric charge originates with electric
fields that have a non-zero divergence is to imply that we
understand the origin of electromagnetic fields, which are supposed
to be generated by accelerated electric charges! A full circle of
deep ignorance as the the nature of either. It seems clear to me
that both electric charge and electromagnetic fields originate from
something more primary and more fundamental than either. I call this
more fundamental entity an energy quantum. It generates both
electric charge and electromagnetic fields, as well as other
physical properties of quantized particles. Its chief characteristic
is its energy which is proportional to its frequency: E=hf. It takes
on other properties such as the speed of light, wavelength,
momentum, spin, magnetic moment, flavor, color charge etc depending
on what physical particle such as the photon, electron, gluon, quark
etc that it expresses itself as. The energy quantum expresses
non-locally through the various particles that it manifests as such
as the photon or the electron.</div></div>
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class="">
So I don’t think that the electric charge has to be point-like. I do
think that the energy quantum, which is not inherently charged, is
likely to be point-like. It generates the electron which has all the
electron's enigmatic properties. I think that if the energy quantum
was better understood as a hypothetical fundamental entity, the
quantum properties of the so-called fundamental particles would
become less enigmatic. So the electron may be a charged photon, but
a photon is an energy quantum expressing as an uncharged photon or
as a charged photon (electron). In your and John's model of the
electron, electric charge must travel at less than the speed of
light, but in my model of the electron as a charged photon, electric
charge can travel at light speed and perhaps faster. Neither of our
models is proved to the extent that either of them can claim
factually that electric charge can or cannot travel at the speed of
light or even faster than light. That’s for experiment to decide.
But we can ask how our models can lead to a deeper understanding of
matter and energy.</div></div>
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class="">
with best regards,</div></div>
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class="">
Richard</div></div>
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class="">
<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></div>
<div class="">
<blockquote style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt; MARGIN-TOP: 5pt" type="cite" class=""><div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class="">On
Mar 4, 2015, at 8:01 AM, Mark, Martin van der <<a style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline; COLOR: purple" href="mailto:martin.van.der.mark@philips.com" target="_blank" class="">martin.van.der.mark@philips.com</a>>
wrote:</div></div>
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""> </div></div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: calibri, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125)" class="">Oh
Richard, maybe the main thing is:</span></div></div>
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: calibri, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125)" class="">Why
put charge in your model to begin with? Wouldn’t it be nice to
have it as a consequence? The charge itself is the whole problem
to begin with…</span></div></div>
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: calibri, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125)" class="">The
motivation just puzzles me….</span></div></div>
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: calibri, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125)" class="">Cheers,
Martin</span></div></div>
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""> </div></div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span lang="DE" style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, sans-serif; COLOR: navy" class="">Dr.
Martin B. van der Mark</span></div></div>
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, sans-serif; COLOR: navy" class="">Principal
Scientist, Minimally Invasive Healthcare</span></div></div>
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""> </div></div>
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, sans-serif; COLOR: navy" class="">Philips
Research Europe - Eindhoven</span></div></div>
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, sans-serif; COLOR: navy" class="">High
Tech Campus, Building 34 (WB2.025)</span></div></div>
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, sans-serif; COLOR: navy" class="">Prof.
Holstlaan 4</span></div></div>
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, sans-serif; COLOR: navy" class="">5656
AE Eindhoven, The Netherlands</span></div></div>
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, sans-serif; COLOR: navy" class="">Tel:
+31 40 2747548</span></div></div></div>
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""> </div></div>
<div class="">
<div style="BORDER-TOP: rgb(181,196,223) 1pt solid; BORDER-BOTTOM-STYLE: none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-TOP: 3pt; BORDER-RIGHT-STYLE: none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; BORDER-LEFT-STYLE: none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in" class="">
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><b class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">From:</span></b><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class=""> General
[<a style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline; COLOR: purple" href="mailto:general-bounces+martin.van.der.mark=philips.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank" class="">mailto:general-bounces+martin.van.der.mark=philips.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>]
<b class="">On Behalf Of </b>Mark, Martin van der<br class=""><b class="">Sent:</b> woensdag
4 maart 2015 16:56<br class=""><b class="">To:</b> Nature of Light and Particles -
General Discussion<br class=""><b class="">Subject:</b> Re: [General] double-loop
electron model discussion</span></div></div></div></div>
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""> </div></div>
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: calibri, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125)" class="">Hi
Richard, thank you,</span></div></div>
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: calibri, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125)" class="">Firstly,
There are 3 intimately related problems. With the self-energy
problem comes the 4/3 problem and that of the Poincare stresses.
See chapter 28 VOL II of the Feynman Lectures. Neither has to do
with the electron being a point. (go back and make sure you
read that previous sentence well) When the electron is taken to be
smaller than half the classical radius, it is already the end of
physics, because there is more energy in the electric field
outside than there is mass to begin with. </span></div></div>
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: calibri, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125)" class="">Secondly,
a charged object whatever you call it and whatever its size cannot
go at light velocity. It may approach it, but not reach it. Charge
means a special configuration of field, of the sort that has a
non-zero divergence, field sticks out in all directions. These
things, really inescapably, MUST have a so-called “rest” mass, if
only from the point of view of what radiation is about: the
transverse part, and what virtual photons, longitudinal
polarization or near-field optics are about: mass given by their
decay length.</span></div></div>
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: calibri, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125)" class="">I
hope this is clear enough. “Charged photon” is a crippled name, it
suggest a contradiction that I believe (I can be quite wrong, but
now you know where it comes from) is also part of the whole
concept described and in my opinion cannot be married with physics
as it stands or with physics as it (perhaps) will appear to
be.</span></div></div>
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: calibri, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125)" class="">Very
best, Martin</span></div></div>
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<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""> </div></div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span lang="DE" style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, sans-serif; COLOR: navy" class="">Dr.
Martin B. van der Mark</span></div></div>
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, sans-serif; COLOR: navy" class="">Principal
Scientist, Minimally Invasive Healthcare</span></div></div>
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""> </div></div>
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, sans-serif; COLOR: navy" class="">Philips
Research Europe - Eindhoven</span></div></div>
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, sans-serif; COLOR: navy" class="">High
Tech Campus, Building 34 (WB2.025)</span></div></div>
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, sans-serif; COLOR: navy" class="">Prof.
Holstlaan 4</span></div></div>
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, sans-serif; COLOR: navy" class="">5656
AE Eindhoven, The Netherlands</span></div></div>
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, sans-serif; COLOR: navy" class="">Tel:
+31 40 2747548</span></div></div></div>
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<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""> </div></div>
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<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><b class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">From:</span></b><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class=""> General
[<a style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline; COLOR: purple" href="mailto:general-bounces+martin.van.der.mark=philips.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank" class=""><span style="COLOR: purple" class="">mailto:general-bounces+martin.van.der.mark=philips.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</span></a>]
<b class="">On Behalf Of </b>Richard Gauthier<br class=""><b class="">Sent:</b> woensdag 4
maart 2015 16:19<br class=""><b class="">To:</b> Nature of Light and Particles -
General Discussion<br class=""><b class="">Subject:</b> Re: [General] double-loop
electron model discussion</span></div></div></div></div>
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<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""> </div></div>
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<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class="">Martin,</div></div>
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<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class="">
I agree. The electron’s quantum existence has a unity that must be
preserved in any electron model, although I would like to hear why
this must be in your opinion.</div></div></div>
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<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class="">
The charged photon model of the electron does not require that the
charge of the charged photon (i.e. the electron) is a point
charge. What we know about the electron is that when it is
detected it displays point-like behavior, so at that time the
charge as well as the location of the detected electron is
point-like (or at least confined within the particular region of
detection of the electron.) The same goes for a photon. We cannot
say that the photon is point-like when it is traveling undetected
through a double slit apparatus, which an electron can do also. As
the electron/charged photon goes through the double slits, its
charge goes through the double slits also, as does its spin and
magnetic moment (or at least the electron's potential for
re-expressing all of these properties when it is later detected
after passing wavelike through both slits.) The photon is only
point-like when it is detected. So the electron and the photon are
very similar in this respect, both showing wave-particle duality.
I’m claiming that this wave-particle duality property (or
Feynman's sum-over-histories property if you don’t like
wave-particle duality) of a photon and an electron is essentially
the same because the electron is a charged photon and has the
properties of a photon like wave-particle duality, interference,
diffraction, and entanglement. But I also claim that the term
“matter-waves” is less meaningful for an electron if an electron
is a charged photon and is not really “matter” at all, unless an
uncharged photon is also “matter”. In this view, the term “matter”
and “material” are not really relevant to the physicist except as
various expressions of energy, if matter is really light or other
luminous objects like gluons of various frequencies,
conformations, and levels of confinement.</div></div></div>
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<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class="">
The charged photon model only requires that the charged photon
have the quantum and wave properties of the photon given by E=hf ,
p=h/lambda and c=lambda f , which by the way are present in your
photon with toroidal topology as I understand it. The charged
photon carries the charge -e for an electron and +e for the
charged photon which is a positron. The light-speed of the
electron (which I call a charged photon) is currently unobserved
(as Dirac remarked) but this doesn’t mean that this light speed is
not part of the electron/charged photon model, since the charged
photon model of the electron generates the de Broglie wavelength
which IS observed and is based on a) a helically circulating
light-speed charged photon, b) the increasing frequency of the
light-speed charged photon with increasing electron total energy,
and c) the corresponding decrease of wavelength of the light-speed
charged photon with increasing electron total energy. Since your
toroidal electron model has these photon properties, it will also
generate the de Broglie wavelength as does the charged photon
model when your electron model has a velocity in the direction
perpendicular to the plane of its helical axis. So your electron
model will generate the de Broglie wavelength in 2 ways — the way
you describe in your and John’s article and in this way as
well.</div></div></div>
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<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class="">
So I am not attached to the electron as charged photon model as
having a point-like electric charge just as I am not attached to
an uncharged photon model being point-like. The supposed
point-like charge of an electron as leading to unwanted infinities
has been a headache to physicists for a long time. Perhaps a new
approach is needed.</div></div></div>
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<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></div></div>
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<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class="">On
Mar 3, 2015, at 3:24 PM, Mark, Martin van der <<a style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline; COLOR: purple" href="mailto:martin.van.der.mark@philips.com" target="_blank" class=""><span style="COLOR: purple" class="">martin.van.der.mark@philips.com</span></a>>
wrote:</div></div></div>
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""> </div></div>
<div class=""><pre style="WORD-WRAP: break-word; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; WORD-SPACING: 0px; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">Hi Chip, clearly what John and I have written is too compact to give a full explanation and it should not have been a surprise to me that the subtleties do not always immediately sink in with the reader. </span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">Perhaps there will be time in at the conference to sit together and discuss the physics, like why, on firm experimental grounds, it absolutely imposible that the electron consists of two parts. It is a very puzzling one, and why the narrowest possible escape may be just, and only just, sufficient: that it is a single quantum of electromagnetic field with a non trivial topplogy. And why any extra property put in from the beginning will destroy the whole concept. Emerging properties should be: charge, spin, magnetic moment, de broglie wavelength, Pauli principle, etc. </span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">Really the only thing i do not have too much of a clue about is the mass scale...our model is at least not by itself capable of explaing it. This is one of the things a real theory should provide!</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">Cheers, Martin</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class=""> </span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">Verstuurd vanaf mijn iPhone</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class=""> </span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> Op 3 mrt. 2015 om 18:30 heeft "Chip Akins" <<a style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline; COLOR: purple" href="mailto:chipakins@gmail.com" target="_blank" class=""><span style="COLOR: purple" class="">chipakins@gmail.com</span></a>> het volgende geschreven:</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> </span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> Hi Martin</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> </span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> I have read your 1997 paper many times and continue to refer to it during research.</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> </span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> Rereading the Feynman Lectures II chapter 28 now.</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> </span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> I am fairly certain that my model, derived in part from yours, handles these issues similarly, but adds some specifics for the electron you may be interested in. If you have not read it please give it a look.</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> </span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> Chip</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> </span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> From: General [<a style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline; COLOR: purple" href="mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank" class=""><span style="COLOR: purple" class="">mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</span></a>] On Behalf Of Mark, Martin van der</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2015 11:23 AM</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> To: Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> Subject: Re: [General] double-loop electron model discussion</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> </span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> Hi Chip,</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> John and I have dealt with it in our model. However, we can only be sure if we can also develop a complete theory: a model is just and only a toy. A very important toy to guide our thinking and to help us taking all aspects on board.</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> In our 1997 paper, we dealt with just about everything, except for:</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> </span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> · The Pauli principle (interference at same Compton frequency)</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> </span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> · The weak interaction (linked field lines)</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> </span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> · The strong interaction (knotted flow)</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> Although after all these years I still feel that our model is very adequate, perhaps the most important of our 1997 paper is that it explains the problems related to certain properties of the electron.</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> So read the paper and you will know a lot more about the physics involved. And do read Chapter 28 VOL II of Feynman.</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> Good luck,</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> Martin</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> </span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> Dr. Martin B. van der Mark</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> Principal Scientist, Minimally Invasive Healthcare</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> </span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> Philips Research Europe - Eindhoven</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> High Tech Campus, Building 34 (WB2.025)</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> Prof. Holstlaan 4</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> 5656 AE Eindhoven, The Netherlands</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> Tel: +31 40 2747548</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> </span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> From: General [<a style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline; COLOR: purple" href="mailto:general-bounces+martin.van.der.mark=philips.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank" class=""><span style="COLOR: purple" class="">mailto:general-bounces+martin.van.der.mark=philips.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</span></a>] On Behalf Of Chip Akins</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> Sent: dinsdag 3 maart 2015 18:05</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> To: 'Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion'</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> Subject: Re: [General] double-loop electron model discussion</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> </span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> Hi Martin</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> </span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> Thank you for the comments.</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> </span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> In your opinion does the model you and John W. created for the electron (1997) satisfy this self-energy problem you mention?</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> </span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> I have read the Feynman lectures, but it has been a while, so time for a review.</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> </span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> Infinities are quite distasteful, and an electron has spin and a magnetic moment, so it can be argued that the electron cannot actually be a point, even if it does react at a single point.</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> </span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> Thoughts?</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> </span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> Chip</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> </span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> From: General [<a style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline; COLOR: purple" href="mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank" class=""><span style="COLOR: purple" class="">mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</span></a>] On Behalf Of Mark, Martin van der</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2015 10:40 AM</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> To: Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> Subject: Re: [General] double-loop electron model discussion</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> </span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> Hi Chip, Richard and Andrew,</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> </span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> 1) Ever read chapter 28 of Vol. II of the Feynman Lectures?</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> It is about the energy in the field of a charged object, like a football that has been rubbed against a cat (as physicists do).</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> That energy goes to infinity at smaller and smaller radius. This leads to the self-energy problem for a small particle. (The invention of charged photons doesn’t seem to do this any good)</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> </span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> 2) The interaction of an electron is point-like, it means that it consists of a single thing, not two massive parts bound by a force (because that would vibrate at some energy)</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> Any electron model must be able to make plausible why this is.</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> Some thinking to do for you perhaps…</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> Best, Martin</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> </span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> </span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> Dr. Martin B. van der Mark</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> Principal Scientist, Minimally Invasive Healthcare</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> </span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> Philips Research Europe - Eindhoven</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> High Tech Campus, Building 34 (WB2.025)</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> Prof. Holstlaan 4</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> 5656 AE Eindhoven, The Netherlands</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> Tel: +31 40 2747548</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> </span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> From: General [<a style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline; COLOR: purple" href="mailto:general-bounces+martin.van.der.mark=philips.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank" class=""><span style="COLOR: purple" class="">mailto:general-bounces+martin.van.der.mark=philips.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</span></a>] On Behalf Of Chip Akins</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> Sent: dinsdag 3 maart 2015 17:10</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> To: 'Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion'</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> Subject: Re: [General] double-loop electron model discussion</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> </span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> Hi Richard and Andrew</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> </span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> Andrew, I have been looking at the annihilation reaction of the electron and positron and considering that the result yields two photons of the energy 0.511MeV. Then assuming the electron and positron are each made of one photon.</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> So far, possibly due to my assumptions regarding the nature of a photon, I have not been able to logically justify splitting the positive and negative “portions’ of a single photon to create these two oppositely charged particles. To me the positive and negative portions of the photon are really made of the same thing, in that they are simply one field vector pointing toward the positive. The positive and negative ends being part of the same spacetime distortion.</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> </span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> I have attached an updated draft of the electron as a confined photon.</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> </span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> Chip</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> </span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> From: General [<a style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline; COLOR: purple" href="mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank" class=""><span style="COLOR: purple" class="">mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</span></a>] On Behalf Of Richard Gauthier</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2015 9:08 AM</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> To: Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> Subject: Re: [General] double-loop electron model discussion</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> </span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> Hi Andrew,</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> That’s a very interesting view that a wormhole connection between a created electron-positron pair could resolve the EPR paradox. I think that you would need to show that the same wormhole explanation would resolve the EPR paradox with other particles that are quantum mechanically entangled. You would also need to show that the appropriate quantum communication between two particles could pass between their connecting wormhole to keep them entangled.</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> There are other sub-quantum hypotheses I suppose about how a photon interacting with another photon or an atomic nucleus can create an electron pair. Have you studied them and eliminated them as possible contenders?</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> </span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> On Mar 2, 2015, at 7:59 AM, Andrew Meulenberg <<a style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline; COLOR: purple" href="mailto:mules333@gmail.com" target="_blank" class=""><span style="COLOR: purple" class="">mules333@gmail.com</span></a><<a style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline; COLOR: purple" href="mailto:mules333@gmail.com" target="_blank" class=""><span style="COLOR: purple" class="">mailto:mules333@gmail.com</span></a>>> wrote:</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> </span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> Dear Richard, Chip, et al.,</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> I thought for a long time about the electron as a self-bound photon, before I realized that I could only make progress when I considered the electron/positron pair as that photon. So, instead of a free photon (a soliton) we must consider 2 self-bound solitons, that can be separated. It was the paraphrased statement(s) from a molecular biologist (who read more physics than I did) that started me on the right path. "Mass and charge are only produced when (& as) the soliton pair are separated." This became the basis of a paper that AJP rejected in 9 minutes from its electronic receipt. However, with that identity of mass and charge in mind and with the recognition of total internal reflection (TIR) as a means of binding light in a "whispering-Gallery" mode, it became clear that the transverse electric field of a bound photon could be 'rectified' by the Goos–Hänchen or Imbert–Fedorov effect<<a style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline; COLOR: purple" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imbert%E2%80%93Fedorov_effect" target="_blank" class=""><span style="COLOR: purple" class="">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imbert%E2%80%93Fedorov_effect</span></a>> of a photon and give the net charge of an electron. This happens at a unique frequency and orbit size where the negative phase shift exactly equals the phase advance of the photon and the electric field can always point out. If the phase is not correct, then the distortion of space (which affects the refractive index of the path and thus the curvature of the photon) is not resonant. However, this difference in curvature, balanced against the phase shift gives a stable configuration.</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> </span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> That was the easy part. Nevertheless, I have not yet actually done the full calculations. Someone of the group, with more mathematical ability than I, could do so and coauthor my paper.</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> My present conjecture: What happens to the field confined inside the bound-photon 'orbit'? It is so greatly concentrated by the path curvature that it becomes 'singular' at the center. Nature 'abhors a singularity' even more than it abhors a vacuum! The extreme energy density distorts space and forms a 'connection' between the forming electron and positron. I believe that the distortion is a wormhole and the connection is thru time. Just as the external field lines of a bar magnet are 'closed' thru the bar, I believe that the electric field lines of an electron/positron (the lepton) pair in space, also form and are closed thru time via the wormhole. The lepton pair remains connected (entangled) by this internal structure until the wormhole 'distributes' among all of the neighboring charges. [I don't believe that the wormhole collapses until a pair annihilates.] Since time does not exist within a wormhole, this resolves the EPR paradox.</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> In response to Richard's intent "I would like to start a thread that focuses on comparing and contrasting the various double-loop electron models ... to find any common areas of agreement, and any points of difference."</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> My original double-loop model assumed that every wavelength is divided in 1/2 and then recombined (nearly superposed). It required a different type of phase shift than normally assumed and was nicely represented by the mobius strip with a 1/2 twist per 1/2 cycle (a full rotation for every wavelength).</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> My present concept, using the Goos–Hänchen or Imbert–Fedorov effect, does not require a relationship between a 'twist' and the photon wavelength, since the path curvature provides the necessary phase shift to keep the fields constant. These options must still be confirmed.</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> Thus, I have two models with different mobius twist factors. One with a 1/2 twist per 1/2 cycle, and one with no twist at all. I believe that both models would allow the electron to be the lowest level and this structure could have higher levels such as the muon. (However, I don't think that they can be considered excited states.)</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> Andrew</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> _____________________________</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> </span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> On Sun, Mar 1, 2015 at 8:41 PM, Chip Akins <<a style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline; COLOR: purple" href="mailto:chipakins@gmail.com" target="_blank" class=""><span style="COLOR: purple" class="">chipakins@gmail.com</span></a><<a style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline; COLOR: purple" href="mailto:chipakins@gmail.com" target="_blank" class=""><span style="COLOR: purple" class="">mailto:chipakins@gmail.com</span></a>>> wrote:</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> Hi Richard</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> </span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> One of the items which intrigued me while studying electron models, was the notion that charge was topologically generated by the spin of the electron. We only find charge in spin 1/2 particles. Looking at U(1) and SU(2) and the Yang-Mills "phase force" idea, led me to be even more convinced.</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> </span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> As it turns out, it seems the photon is capable of generating charge topologically, when confined. Of course the simplest method to express that confinement is a monochromatic circular plane wave, certain toroidal models may also work, as long as the negative end of the E field is exposed to the outside.</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> </span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> Another attraction in starting with the plane circular model, is the relative ease of analyzing wave interference. It happens that wave interference is very important, because the result is that the effective electrical and magnetic radius is then slightly larger than the transport radius, providing the exact values for the magnetic moment (with anomaly), and the exact electric charge. Wave interference occurs near the center of the model, making the E field less efficient near the center, and thereby shifting the effective E field radius, and therefore the effective magnetic radius, outwards, while not affecting the transport radius.</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> </span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> With these values (magnetic moment and charge) defined so accurately in the model, it is still a little puzzling that my models wave interference predicts a value for the fine structure, internal to the electron, of 0.007285993718303 when the actual value (CODATA) is 0.0072973525698. The difference is 0.1557% but I still feel it is significant, and want to know why the difference is there. Maybe I am calculating the interference incorrectly or incompletely. Or maybe there is another contribution to the fine structure which I have missed. While writing this I may have discovered where my error is. I kept telling myself that the fields actually extend far beyond the effective RMS radius but falling off in intensity, and I accounted for that in part of the wave interference calculations, but not all of the interference was calculated, because I failed to see its tiny contribution before now.</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> </span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> Another aspect of my model which is unique and not incorporated in any other model we have seen is the relative phase of the electrical and magnetic components of the wave. This aspect becomes important when understanding how the photon is confined.</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> The electron exhibits many clues to its nature. From this model we can calculate the exact known value for the Quantum Hall effect, by simply running some standard electrical engineering formula using the "voltage", "current", and frequency. This indicates also that an electrical engineering analysis may provide other valuable information. Using a similar approach we can understand that the electron will display a particular phase relationship between E and M components. In a simple EM resonant system the E and M components are shifted 90 degrees at resonance. If we start with a 90 degree phase shift and look at the double loop configuration of the wave we see an apparent 180 degree phase shift in the confined E and M components, placing them on opposite sides of the electron radius at any given instant. Then it is much easier to see that with the E and M fields on opposite sides, and the attraction between these fields, the issue of photon confinement is simplified somewhat.</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> </span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> We still have a ways to go, getting answers to many of the remaining questions. But so far it seems like the group has uncovered some important new understanding which may lead us to a clearer, causal, view of physics, and provide a new basis which can describe experiment more fully and accurately.</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> </span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> Chip</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> </span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> -----Original Message-----</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> From: General [mailto:<a style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline; COLOR: purple" href="mailto:general-bounces%2Bchipakins" target="_blank" class="">general-bounces+chipakins</a><<a style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline; COLOR: purple" href="mailto:general-bounces%2Bchipakins" target="_blank" class=""><span style="COLOR: purple" class="">mailto:general-bounces%2Bchipakins</span></a>>=<a style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline; COLOR: purple" href="mailto:gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank" class=""><span style="COLOR: purple" class="">gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</span></a><<a style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline; COLOR: purple" href="mailto:gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank" class=""><span style="COLOR: purple" class="">mailto:gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</span></a>>] On Behalf Of Richard Gauthier</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2015 11:47 PM</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> To: Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> Subject: Re: [General] double-loop electron model discussion</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> </span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> Hi Chip,</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> </span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> Thank you for your thoughtful as well as personal history comments about your interest in modeling the electron. My own interest in the structure and composition of the electron dates back to the late 1980’s. My spiritual guru gave some new ideas in 1986 about how matter might be formed by a kind of life principle transmitted through subtle vibrating life-energy entities that have both a mental and a physical portion. That idea intrigued me and soon I tried to apply the idea to make a model of a photon as being composed of millions of these oscillating life-particles. I had mainly my intuition to guide me. My photon model soon contained a single circulating energy entity (a superluminal energy quantum) traveling helically at a 45 degree angle with the speed c sqrt(2) and a total momentum along a helical trajectory of (h/lambda) sqrt(2). The energy quantum's helical radius is the photon’s wavelength lambda divided by 2 pi. This result came out of the requirement that the photon model should have its experimental value of spin hbar (or minus hbar) generated by the transverse component of the superluminal energy quantum's total momentum along its helical trajectory, while having the transluminal energy quantum’s longitudinal component of momentum be the photon's linear momentum p=h/lambda.</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> </span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> I then modeled the electron as a closed charged photon-like object. I knew very little about the Dirac equation except its prediction of antimatter and that the electron has a 4pi rotational symmetry. I also found that a single closed-loop of one wavelength of a photon (the Compton wavelength h/mc) with the electron’s rest energy mc^2 yields a spin of 1 hbar — twice the value of the electron’s spin. It hit me that making a double-loop of a single wavelength photon produces an electron model with a spin of 1/2 hbar.</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> </span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> While making my electron model I realized that it should also have the electron’s magnetic moment M — approximately the magnitude of the Bohr magneton (e hbar)/2m. I set the electron model to have the Bohr magneton for its magnetic moment by adjusting the radius of the closed helical path of the helically moving charged superluminal energy quantum so that its helically circulating charge generates the Dirac equation electron's Bohr magneton for the electron model. (Choosing a slightly larger helical radius generates the electron’s exact experimental value of magnetic moment which is a little larger than the Bohr magneton’s magnitude.)</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> </span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> Later I started analyzing other people’s cyclical models of the electron more closely. I found that Dirac had claimed that electrons actually move at the speed of light, but that only a sub-luminal speed can be observed. I found two analyses of the Dirac equation that suggested that the path of a moving electron’s charge can be described as light-speed along an open helix. This gave me the idea to fit my model of the circulating charged photon for a resting electron to this light-speed helical approach. I realized that the circulating photon in the electron model would have an increased frequency f corresponding to its increased total energy gamma mc^2 when the electron moves forward, and that the corresponding wavelength of this circulating charged photon would decrease with this increasing frequency, in order to keep the speed of light of the circulating charged photon constant. The radius of the charged photon’s helix was found to decrease with increasing electron velocity by the factor gamma^2 in order for the photon’s wavelength to decrease as described as the frequency of the charged photon increases with increasing electron speed and total energy. All the math worked out nicely, including the generation of the electron’s spin 1/2 hbar for a slow moving electron from the tangential component mc of the charged photon’s total momentum gamma mc along its helical axis, multiplied by the radius hbar/2mc of the charged photon’s helical axis for a slow moving electron. And I realized that any speed-of-light double-looping photon model for an electron should also follow a corresponding helical path whose radius decreases in the same way with the electron’s increase speed. This is because the result only depends on the relations E=hf, p=h/lambda , and c= lambda f , the basic quantum energy and momentum equations for a photon and the equation for wave motion with speed c.</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> </span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> Although I knew that any acceptable electron model would have to generate the relativistic de Broglie wavelength Ldb = h/(gamma mv) , I was quite surprised that this result falls out so easily from the circulating charged photon model of a moving electron, where the longitudinal component of the circulating charged photon’s wave vector k yields the wave number that corresponds to the relativistic de Broglie wavelength. Furthermore, this simple result for the origin of the electron’s de Broglie wavelength suggests that the quantum wave functions for a moving electron, which depend heavily on the electron's de Broglie wavelength, are produced mathematically from the waves generated by the circulating charged photon that models the electron.</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> </span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> Richard</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> </span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">>> On Feb 28, 2015, at 6:47 AM, Chip Akins <<a style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline; COLOR: purple" href="mailto:chipakins@gmail.com" target="_blank" class=""><span style="COLOR: purple" class="">chipakins@gmail.com</span></a><<a style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline; COLOR: purple" href="mailto:chipakins@gmail.com" target="_blank" class=""><span style="COLOR: purple" class="">mailto:chipakins@gmail.com</span></a>>> wrote:</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">>> </span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">>> Hi Richard and ALL</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">>> </span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">>> You asked for a comparison of electron models.</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">>> </span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">>> Since 1986, while having lunch with a mathematician, Eric Peterson, I have felt that the electron was made up of EM waves, or a photon.</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">>> </span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">>> Several of us have come to the same conclusion.</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">>> </span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">>> When I saw your model from 2005 many things started to make sense. That is why I was so excited and interested to fully pursue the math to try to deeply understand your TEQ model. It was quite informative and inspiring to see your work.</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">>> </span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">>> Since that time, principally due to an Occam's razor argument, I have returned to the view that TEQ's are not required to model the electron. While I still feel that it may be possible that TEQ's exist, I do not find, in my view, that it is required for the modeling of the photon and electron.</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">>> </span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">>> When I later saw John W and Martin's work from 1997 I was again very interested, principally because they were saying the same thing I was thinking, in general.</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">>> </span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">>> While running the math and testing the model from John W and Martin, it occurred to me that we had to have some sort of photon model to build the electron from. So I produced the simplest model I could imagine which would fulfill what I felt then was the basic criteria. My view of the basic criteria has since changed due to this collaboration, so I am working now to update my electron model. However it seems most of the electron model remains intact.</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">>> </span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">>> The fundamental differences between my model and John W. and Martin's model are as follows:</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">>> </span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">>> I found that wave interference may be precisely the cause for the exact value of the magnetic moment anomaly, and the cause for the exact value for the elementary charge.</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">>> </span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">>> That wave interference, incidentally, produces a new view of the fine structure constant in the electron.</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">>> </span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">>> My motivation, in part, to do this work, was because we have to provide an electron model which is simple in comparison, and competes with current theory and models in accuracy, before such a model will be considered a viable alternative.</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">>> </span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">>> My model currently falls short of some of the goals that I feel we will need, in order for our work to be considered noteworthy and to be eventually accepted.</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">>> </span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">>> My model also demonstrates the cause for inertial mass, but I think John W. and Martin's model may illustrate the same property. And in fact, all confined photon models may show the same attribute of inertial mass.</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">>> </span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">>> There are implications of the work we are doing which we also need to discuss. If Matter is made from light, when you think about its implications on relativity, leads to the existence of a preferred reference rest frame in space, leading us toward Chandra's view and CTF.</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">>> </span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">>> Working with all of you is both enlightening and inspiring.</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">>> </span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">>> Chip</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">>> </span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">>> </span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">>> </span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">>> </span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">>> -----Original Message-----</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">>> From: General</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">>> [mailto:<a style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline; COLOR: purple" href="mailto:general-bounces%2Bchipakins" target="_blank" class="">general-bounces+chipakins</a><<a style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline; COLOR: purple" href="mailto:general-bounces%2Bchipakins" target="_blank" class=""><span style="COLOR: purple" class="">mailto:general-bounces%2Bchipakins</span></a>>=<a style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline; COLOR: purple" href="mailto:gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandpart" target="_blank" class=""><span style="COLOR: purple" class="">gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandpart</span></a><<a style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline; COLOR: purple" href="mailto:gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandpart" target="_blank" class=""><span style="COLOR: purple" class="">mailto:gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandpart</span></a>></span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">>> <a style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline; COLOR: purple" href="http://icles.org/" target="_blank" class=""><span style="COLOR: purple" class="">icles.org</span></a><<a style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline; COLOR: purple" href="http://icles.org/" target="_blank" class=""><span style="COLOR: purple" class="">http://icles.org/</span></a>>] On Behalf Of Richard Gauthier</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">>> Sent: Friday, February 27, 2015 11:10 PM</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">>> To: Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">>> Subject: [General] double-loop electron model discussion</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">>> </span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">>> I would like to start a thread that focuses on comparing and contrasting the various double-loop electron models, mainly John and Martin’s (J/M's), Chip’s, Vivian's and mine, and any others that people may know of, to find any common areas of agreement, and any points of difference. I think we are all agreed that the resting electron in our various models has spin 1/2 hbar. Chip’s model is based on J/M's model. I’d like to ask Chip, if I might, what commonalities and differences exist between J/M’s electron model and Chip's electron model. We can go on from there, if that’s agreeable.</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">>> Richard</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">>> _______________________________________________</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">>> If you no longer wish to receive communication from the Nature of</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">>> Light and Particles General Discussion List at <a style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline; COLOR: purple" href="mailto:chipakins@gmail.com" target="_blank" class=""><span style="COLOR: purple" class="">chipakins@gmail.com</span></a><<a style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline; COLOR: purple" href="mailto:chipakins@gmail.com" target="_blank" class=""><span style="COLOR: purple" class="">mailto:chipakins@gmail.com</span></a>> <a</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">>> href="<a style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline; COLOR: purple" href="http://lists.natureoflightandparticles.org/options.cgi/general-n" target="_blank" class=""><span style="COLOR: purple" class="">http://lists.natureoflightandparticles.org/options.cgi/general-n</span></a></span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">>> <a style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline; COLOR: purple" href="http://atureoflightandparticles.org/chipakins%40gmail.com?unsub=1&unsubconfir" target="_blank" class=""><span style="COLOR: purple" class="">atureoflightandparticles.org/chipakins%40gmail.com?unsub=1&unsubconfir</span></a><<a style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline; 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FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">>> If you no longer wish to receive communication from the Nature of</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">>> Light and Particles General Discussion List at <a style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline; COLOR: purple" href="mailto:richgauthier@gmail.com" target="_blank" class=""><span style="COLOR: purple" class="">richgauthier@gmail.com</span></a><<a style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline; COLOR: purple" href="mailto:richgauthier@gmail.com" target="_blank" class=""><span style="COLOR: purple" class="">mailto:richgauthier@gmail.com</span></a>></span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">>> <a</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">>> href="<a style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline; 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MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">>> firm=1"></span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">>> Click here to unsubscribe</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">>> </a></span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> </span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> _______________________________________________</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> If you no longer wish to receive communication from the Nature of Light and Particles General Discussion List at <a style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline; 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FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> _______________________________________________</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> If you no longer wish to receive communication from the Nature of Light and Particles General Discussion List at <a style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline; COLOR: purple" href="mailto:richgauthier@gmail.com" target="_blank" class=""><span style="COLOR: purple" class="">richgauthier@gmail.com</span></a><<a style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline; COLOR: purple" href="mailto:richgauthier@gmail.com" target="_blank" class=""><span style="COLOR: purple" class="">mailto:richgauthier@gmail.com</span></a>></span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> <a href="<a style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline; 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If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by return e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message.</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> <The Electron as a Confined Photon CA.pdf></span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> _______________________________________________</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> If you no longer wish to receive communication from the Nature of Light and Particles General Discussion List at <a style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline; COLOR: purple" href="mailto:martin.van.der.mark@philips.com" target="_blank" class=""><span style="COLOR: purple" class="">martin.van.der.mark@philips.com</span></a></span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> <a href="<a style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline; COLOR: purple" href="http://lists.natureoflightandparticles.org/options.cgi/general-natureoflightandparticles.org/martin.van.der.mark%40philips.com?unsub=1&unsubconfirm=1" target="_blank" class=""><span style="COLOR: purple" class="">http://lists.natureoflightandparticles.org/options.cgi/general-natureoflightandparticles.org/martin.van.der.mark%40philips.com?unsub=1&unsubconfirm=1</span></a>"></span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> Click here to unsubscribe</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> </a></span></pre>
<div class="">
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<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class="">Hi
Martin</div></div></div>
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<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""> </div></div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class="">I
have read your 1997 paper many times and continue to refer to it
during research.</div></div></div>
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""> </div></div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class="">Rereading
the Feynman Lectures II chapter 28 now.</div></div></div>
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""> </div></div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class="">I
am fairly certain that my model, derived in part from yours,
handles these issues similarly, but adds some specifics for the
electron you may be interested in. If you have not read it
please give it a look.</div></div></div>
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""> </div></div>
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<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class="">Chip</div></div></div>
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""> </div></div>
<div class="">
<div style="BORDER-TOP: rgb(225,225,225) 1pt solid; BORDER-BOTTOM-STYLE: none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-TOP: 3pt; BORDER-RIGHT-STYLE: none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; BORDER-LEFT-STYLE: none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in" class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><b class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: calibri, sans-serif" class="">From:</span></b><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: calibri, sans-serif" class="">
General [<a style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline; COLOR: purple" href="mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank" class=""><span style="COLOR: purple" class="">mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</span></a>]
<b class="">On Behalf Of </b>Mark, Martin van der<br class=""><b class="">Sent:</b>
Tuesday, March 03, 2015 11:23 AM<br class=""><b class="">To:</b> Nature of Light
and Particles - General Discussion<br class=""><b class="">Subject:</b> Re:
[General] double-loop electron model
discussion</span></div></div></div></div></div>
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""> </div></div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: calibri, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125)" class="">Hi
Chip,</span></div></div></div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: calibri, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125)" class="">John
and I have dealt with it in our model. However, we can only be
sure if we can also develop a complete theory: a model is just
and only a toy. A very important toy to guide our thinking and
to help us taking all aspects on board.</span></div></div></div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: calibri, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125)" class="">In
our 1997 paper, we dealt with just about everything, except
for:</span></div></div></div>
<div style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in" class="">
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: symbol; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125)" class="">·</span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 7pt; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125)" class="">
<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span> </span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: calibri, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125)" class="">The
Pauli principle (interference at same Compton
frequency)</span></div></div></div>
<div style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in" class="">
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: symbol; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125)" class="">·</span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 7pt; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125)" class="">
<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span> </span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: calibri, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125)" class="">The
weak interaction (linked field lines)</span></div></div></div>
<div style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in" class="">
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: symbol; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125)" class="">·</span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 7pt; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125)" class="">
<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span> </span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: calibri, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125)" class="">The
strong interaction (knotted flow)</span></div></div></div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: calibri, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125)" class="">Although
after all these years I still feel that our model is very
adequate, perhaps the most important of our 1997 paper is that
it explains the problems related to certain properties of the
electron.</span></div></div></div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: calibri, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125)" class="">So
read the paper and you will know a lot more about the physics
involved. And do read Chapter 28 VOL II of
Feynman.</span></div></div></div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: calibri, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125)" class="">Good
luck,</span></div></div></div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: calibri, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125)" class="">Martin</span></div></div></div>
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""> </div></div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
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<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span lang="DE" style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, sans-serif; COLOR: navy" class="">Dr.
Martin B. van der Mark</span></div></div></div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, sans-serif; COLOR: navy" class="">Principal
Scientist, Minimally Invasive
Healthcare</span></div></div></div>
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""> </div></div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, sans-serif; COLOR: navy" class="">Philips
Research Europe - Eindhoven</span></div></div></div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, sans-serif; COLOR: navy" class="">High
Tech Campus, Building 34 (WB2.025)</span></div></div></div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, sans-serif; COLOR: navy" class="">Prof.
Holstlaan 4</span></div></div></div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, sans-serif; COLOR: navy" class="">5656
AE Eindhoven, The Netherlands</span></div></div></div>
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<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, sans-serif; COLOR: navy" class="">Tel:
+31 40 2747548</span></div></div></div></div>
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<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""> </div></div>
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<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><b class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">From:</span></b><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">
General [<a style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline; COLOR: purple" href="mailto:general-bounces+martin.van.der.mark=philips.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank" class=""><span style="COLOR: purple" class="">mailto:general-bounces+martin.van.der.mark=philips.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</span></a>]
<b class="">On Behalf Of </b>Chip Akins<br class=""><b class="">Sent:</b> dinsdag 3 maart
2015 18:05<br class=""><b class="">To:</b> 'Nature of Light and Particles -
General Discussion'<br class=""><b class="">Subject:</b> Re: [General] double-loop
electron model discussion</span></div></div></div></div></div>
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""> </div></div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class="">Hi
Martin</div></div></div>
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""> </div></div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class="">Thank
you for the comments.</div></div></div>
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""> </div></div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class="">In
your opinion does the model you and John W. created for the
electron (1997) satisfy this self-energy problem you
mention?</div></div></div>
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""> </div></div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class="">I
have read the Feynman lectures, but it has been a while, so time
for a review.</div></div></div>
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""> </div></div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class="">Infinities
are quite distasteful, and an electron has spin and a magnetic
moment, so it can be argued that the electron cannot actually be
a point, even if it does react at a single
point.</div></div></div>
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""> </div></div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class="">Thoughts?</div></div></div>
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<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""> </div></div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class="">Chip</div></div></div>
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<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""> </div></div>
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<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><b class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: calibri, sans-serif" class="">From:</span></b><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: calibri, sans-serif" class="">
General [<a style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline; COLOR: purple" href="mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank" class=""><span style="COLOR: purple" class="">mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</span></a>]
<b class="">On Behalf Of </b>Mark, Martin van der<br class=""><b class="">Sent:</b>
Tuesday, March 03, 2015 10:40 AM<br class=""><b class="">To:</b> Nature of Light
and Particles - General Discussion<br class=""><b class="">Subject:</b> Re:
[General] double-loop electron model
discussion</span></div></div></div></div></div>
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""> </div></div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: calibri, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125)" class="">Hi
Chip, Richard and Andrew,</span></div></div></div>
<div style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in" class="">
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: calibri, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125)" class="">1)</span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 7pt; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125)" class="">
<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span> </span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: calibri, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125)" class="">Ever
read chapter 28 of Vol. II of the Feynman
Lectures?</span></div></div></div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; TEXT-INDENT: 0.5in" class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: calibri, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125)" class="">It
is about the energy in the field of a charged object, like a
football that has been rubbed against a cat (as physicists
do).</span></div></div></div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; TEXT-INDENT: 0.5in" class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: calibri, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125)" class="">That
energy goes to infinity at smaller and smaller radius. This
leads to the self-energy problem for a small particle. (The
invention of charged photons doesn’t seem to do this any
good)</span></div></div></div>
<div style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in" class="">
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: calibri, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125)" class="">2)</span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 7pt; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125)" class="">
<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span> </span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: calibri, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125)" class="">The
interaction of an electron is point-like, it means that it
consists of a single thing, not two massive parts bound by a
force (because that would vibrate at some
energy)</span></div></div></div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: calibri, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125)" class="">Any
electron model must be able to make plausible why this
is.</span></div></div></div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: calibri, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125)" class="">Some
thinking to do for you perhaps…</span></div></div></div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: calibri, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125)" class="">Best,
Martin</span></div></div></div>
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""> </div></div>
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""> </div></div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span lang="DE" style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, sans-serif; COLOR: navy" class="">Dr.
Martin B. van der Mark</span></div></div></div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, sans-serif; COLOR: navy" class="">Principal
Scientist, Minimally Invasive
Healthcare</span></div></div></div>
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""> </div></div>
<div class="">
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<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, sans-serif; COLOR: navy" class="">Philips
Research Europe - Eindhoven</span></div></div></div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, sans-serif; COLOR: navy" class="">High
Tech Campus, Building 34 (WB2.025)</span></div></div></div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, sans-serif; COLOR: navy" class="">Prof.
Holstlaan 4</span></div></div></div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, sans-serif; COLOR: navy" class="">5656
AE Eindhoven, The Netherlands</span></div></div></div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, sans-serif; COLOR: navy" class="">Tel:
+31 40 2747548</span></div></div></div></div>
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<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""> </div></div>
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<div style="BORDER-TOP: rgb(181,196,223) 1pt solid; BORDER-BOTTOM-STYLE: none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-TOP: 3pt; BORDER-RIGHT-STYLE: none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; BORDER-LEFT-STYLE: none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in" class="">
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<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><b class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">From:</span></b><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">
General [<a style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline; COLOR: purple" href="mailto:general-bounces+martin.van.der.mark=philips.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank" class=""><span style="COLOR: purple" class="">mailto:general-bounces+martin.van.der.mark=philips.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</span></a>]
<b class="">On Behalf Of </b>Chip Akins<br class=""><b class="">Sent:</b> dinsdag 3 maart
2015 17:10<br class=""><b class="">To:</b> 'Nature of Light and Particles -
General Discussion'<br class=""><b class="">Subject:</b> Re: [General] double-loop
electron model discussion</span></div></div></div></div></div>
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""> </div></div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class="">Hi
Richard and Andrew</div></div></div>
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""> </div></div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class="">Andrew,
I have been looking at the annihilation reaction of the electron
and positron and considering that the result yields two photons
of the energy 0.511MeV. Then assuming the electron and positron
are each made of one photon.</div></div></div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class="">So
far, possibly due to my assumptions regarding the nature of a
photon, I have not been able to logically justify splitting the
positive and negative “portions’ of a single photon to create
these two oppositely charged particles. To me the positive and
negative portions of the photon are really made of the same
thing, in that they are simply one field vector pointing toward
the positive. The positive and negative ends being part of the
same spacetime distortion.</div></div></div>
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""> </div></div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class="">I
have attached an updated draft of <u class="">the electron as a confined
photon</u>.</div></div></div>
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""> </div></div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class="">Chip</div></div></div>
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""> </div></div>
<div class="">
<div style="BORDER-TOP: rgb(225,225,225) 1pt solid; BORDER-BOTTOM-STYLE: none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-TOP: 3pt; BORDER-RIGHT-STYLE: none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; BORDER-LEFT-STYLE: none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in" class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><b class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: calibri, sans-serif" class="">From:</span></b><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: calibri, sans-serif" class="">
General [<a style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline; COLOR: purple" href="mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank" class=""><span style="COLOR: purple" class="">mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</span></a>]
<b class="">On Behalf Of </b>Richard Gauthier<br class=""><b class="">Sent:</b> Tuesday,
March 03, 2015 9:08 AM<br class=""><b class="">To:</b> Nature of Light and
Particles - General Discussion<br class=""><b class="">Subject:</b> Re: [General]
double-loop electron model
discussion</span></div></div></div></div></div>
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""> </div></div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class="">Hi
Andrew,</div></div></div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class="">
That’s a very interesting view that a wormhole connection
between a created electron-positron pair could resolve the EPR
paradox. I think that you would need to show that the same
wormhole explanation would resolve the EPR paradox with other
particles that are quantum mechanically entangled. You would
also need to show that the appropriate quantum communication
between two particles could pass between their connecting
wormhole to keep them entangled.</div></div></div></div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class="">
There are other sub-quantum hypotheses I suppose about how a
photon interacting with another photon or an atomic nucleus can
create an electron pair. Have you studied them and eliminated
them as possible contenders?</div></div></div></div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""> </div></div>
<div class="">
<blockquote style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt; MARGIN-TOP: 5pt" type="cite" class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class="">On
Mar 2, 2015, at 7:59 AM, Andrew Meulenberg <<a style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline; COLOR: purple" href="mailto:mules333@gmail.com" target="_blank" class=""><span style="COLOR: purple" class="">mules333@gmail.com</span></a>>
wrote:</div></div></div></div>
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""> </div></div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 12pt"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: helvetica, sans-serif" class="">Dear
Richard, Chip, et al.,</span></p></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 12pt"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: helvetica, sans-serif" class="">I
thought for a long time about the electron as a self-bound
photon, before I realized that I could only make progress when
I considered the electron/positron pair as that photon. So,
instead of a free photon (a soliton) we must consider 2
self-bound solitons, that can be separated. It was the
paraphrased statement(s) from a molecular biologist (who read
more physics than I did) that started me on the right path.
"Mass and charge are only produced when (& as) the soliton
pair are separated." This became the basis of a paper that AJP
rejected in 9 minutes from its electronic receipt. However,
with that identity of mass and charge in mind and with the
recognition of total internal reflection (TIR) as a means of
binding light in a "whispering-Gallery" mode, it became clear
that the transverse electric field of a bound photon could be
'rectified' by the Goos–Hänchen or <a title="Imbert–Fedorov effect" style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline; COLOR: purple" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imbert%E2%80%93Fedorov_effect" target="_blank" class=""><span style="COLOR: purple" class="">Imbert–Fedorov
effect</span></a> of a photon and give the net charge of an
electron. This happens at a unique frequency and orbit size
where the negative phase shift exactly equals the phase
advance of the photon and the electric field can always point
out. If the phase is not correct, then the distortion of space
(which affects the refractive index of the path and thus the
curvature of the photon) is not resonant. However, this
difference in curvature, balanced against the phase shift
gives a stable configuration.<br class=""><br class="">That was the easy part.
Nevertheless, I have not yet actually done the full
calculations. Someone of the group, with more mathematical
ability than I, could do so and coauthor my
paper.</span></p></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 12pt"><b class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: helvetica, sans-serif" class="">My
present conjecture</span></b><span style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: helvetica, sans-serif" class="">:
What happens to the field confined inside the bound-photon
'orbit'? It is so greatly concentrated by the path curvature
that it becomes 'singular' at the center. Nature 'abhors a
singularity' even more than it abhors a vacuum! The extreme
energy density distorts space and forms a 'connection' between
the forming electron and positron. I believe that the
distortion is a wormhole and the connection is thru time. Just
as the external field lines of a bar magnet are 'closed' thru
the bar, I believe that the electric field lines of an
electron/positron (the lepton) pair in space, also form and
are closed thru time via the wormhole. The lepton pair remains
connected (entangled) by this internal structure until the
wormhole 'distributes' among all of the neighboring charges.
[I don't believe that the wormhole collapses until a pair
annihilates.] Since time does not exist within a wormhole,
this resolves the EPR paradox.</span></p></div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><b class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: helvetica, sans-serif" class="">In
response to Richard's intent <i class="">"I would like to start a
thread that focuses on comparing and contrasting the various
double-loop electron models ... to find any common areas of
agreement, and any points of
difference."</i></span></b></div></div></div>
<div class="">
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 12pt"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: helvetica, sans-serif" class="">My
original double-loop model assumed that every wavelength is
divided in 1/2 and then recombined (nearly superposed). It
required a different type of phase shift than normally assumed
and was nicely represented by the mobius strip with a 1/2
twist per 1/2 cycle (a full rotation for every
wavelength).</span></p></div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 12pt"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: helvetica, sans-serif" class="">My
present concept, using the Goos–Hänchen or Imbert–Fedorov
effect, does not require a relationship between a 'twist' and
the photon wavelength, since the path curvature provides the
necessary phase shift to keep the fields constant. These
options must still be confirmed.</span></p></div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 12pt"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: helvetica, sans-serif" class="">Thus,
I have two models with different mobius twist factors. One
with a 1/2 twist per 1/2 cycle, and one with no twist at all.
I believe that both models would allow the electron to be the
lowest level and this structure could have higher levels such
as the muon. (However, I don't think that they can be
considered excited states.)</span></p></div>
<div class="">
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<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: helvetica, sans-serif" class="">Andrew<br class="">_____________________________</span></div></div></div></div>
<div class="">
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<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""> </div></div>
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<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: helvetica, sans-serif" class="">On
Sun, Mar 1, 2015 at 8:41 PM, Chip Akins <<a style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline; COLOR: purple" href="mailto:chipakins@gmail.com" target="_blank" class=""><span style="COLOR: purple" class="">chipakins@gmail.com</span></a>>
wrote:</span></div></div></div>
<blockquote style="BORDER-TOP-STYLE: none; BORDER-BOTTOM-STYLE: none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-RIGHT-STYLE: none; PADDING-LEFT: 6pt; MARGIN: 5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1pt solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in" type="cite" class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: helvetica, sans-serif" class="">Hi
Richard<br class=""><br class="">One of the items which intrigued me while
studying electron models, was the notion that charge was
topologically generated by the spin of the electron.
We only find charge in spin 1/2 particles. Looking at U(1)
and SU(2) and the Yang-Mills "phase force" idea, led me to
be even more convinced.<br class=""><br class="">As it turns out, it seems the
photon is capable of generating charge topologically, when
confined. Of course the simplest method to express that
confinement is a monochromatic circular plane wave, certain
toroidal models may also work, as long as the negative end
of the E field is exposed to the outside.<br class=""><br class="">Another
attraction in starting with the plane circular model, is the
relative ease of analyzing wave interference. It
happens that wave interference is very important, because
the result is that the effective electrical and magnetic
radius is then slightly larger than the transport radius,
providing the exact values for the magnetic moment (with
anomaly), and the exact electric charge. Wave
interference occurs near the center of the model, making the
E field less efficient near the center, and thereby shifting
the effective E field radius, and therefore the effective
magnetic radius, outwards, while not affecting the transport
radius.<br class=""><br class="">With these values (magnetic moment and
charge) defined so accurately in the model, it is still a
little puzzling that my models wave interference predicts a
value for the fine structure, internal to the electron, of
0.007285993718303 when the actual value (CODATA) is
0.0072973525698. The difference is 0.1557% but I still
feel it is significant, and want to know why the difference
is there. Maybe I am calculating the interference
incorrectly or incompletely. Or maybe there is another
contribution to the fine structure which I have missed.
While writing this I may have discovered where my error
is. I kept telling myself that the fields actually
extend far beyond the effective RMS radius but falling off
in intensity, and I accounted for that in part of the wave
interference calculations, but not all of the interference
was calculated, because I failed to see its tiny
contribution before now.<br class=""><br class="">Another aspect of my model
which is unique and not incorporated in any other model we
have seen is the relative phase of the electrical and
magnetic components of the wave. This aspect becomes
important when understanding how the photon is
confined.<br class="">The electron exhibits many clues to its nature.
From this model we can calculate the exact known value for
the Quantum Hall effect, by simply running some standard
electrical engineering formula using the "voltage",
"current", and frequency. This indicates also that an
electrical engineering analysis may provide other valuable
information. Using a similar approach we can
understand that the electron will display a particular phase
relationship between E and M components. In a simple
EM resonant system the E and M components are shifted 90
degrees at resonance. If we start with a 90 degree
phase shift and look at the double loop configuration
of the wave we see an apparent 180 degree phase shift in the
confined E and M components, placing them on opposite sides
of the electron radius at any given instant. Then it is much
easier to see that with the E and M fields on opposite
sides, and the attraction between these fields, the issue of
photon confinement is simplified somewhat.<br class=""><br class="">We still
have a ways to go, getting answers to many of the remaining
questions. But so far it seems like the group has
uncovered some important new understanding which may lead us
to a clearer, causal, view of physics, and provide a new
basis which can describe experiment more fully and
accurately.<br class=""><br class="">Chip<br class=""><br class="">-----Original
Message-----<br class="">From: General [mailto:<a style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline; COLOR: purple" href="mailto:general-bounces%2Bchipakins" target="_blank" class=""><span style="COLOR: purple" class="">general-bounces+chipakins</span></a>=<a style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline; COLOR: purple" href="mailto:gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank" class=""><span style="COLOR: purple" class="">gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</span></a>]
On Behalf Of Richard Gauthier<br class="">Sent: Saturday, February
28, 2015 11:47 PM<br class="">To: Nature of Light and Particles -
General Discussion</span></div></div></div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: helvetica, sans-serif" class="">Subject:
Re: [General] double-loop electron model
discussion<br class=""><br class="">Hi Chip,<br class=""><br class=""> Thank you for
your thoughtful as well as personal history comments about
your interest in modeling the electron. My own interest in
the structure and composition of the electron dates back to
the late 1980’s. My spiritual guru gave some new ideas in
1986 about how matter might be formed by a kind of life
principle transmitted through subtle vibrating life-energy
entities that have both a mental and a physical portion.
That idea intrigued me and soon I tried to apply the idea to
make a model of a photon as being composed of millions of
these oscillating life-particles. I had mainly my intuition
to guide me. My photon model soon contained a single
circulating energy entity (a superluminal energy quantum)
traveling helically at a 45 degree angle with the speed c
sqrt(2) and a total momentum along a helical trajectory of
(h/lambda) sqrt(2). The energy quantum's helical radius is
the photon’s wavelength lambda divided by 2 pi. This result
came out of the requirement that the photon model should
have its experimental value of spin hbar (or minus hbar)
generated by the transverse component of the superluminal
energy quantum's total momentum along its helical
trajectory, while having the transluminal energy quantum’s
longitudinal component of momentum be the photon's linear
momentum p=h/lambda.<br class=""><br class=""> I then
modeled the electron as a closed charged photon-like object.
I knew very little about the Dirac equation except its
prediction of antimatter and that the electron has a 4pi
rotational symmetry. I also found that a single closed-loop
of one wavelength of a photon (the Compton wavelength h/mc)
with the electron’s rest energy mc^2 yields a spin of 1 hbar
— twice the value of the electron’s spin. It hit me that
making a double-loop of a single wavelength photon produces
an electron model with a spin of 1/2
hbar.<br class=""><br class=""> While making my electron
model I realized that it should also have the electron’s
magnetic moment M — approximately the magnitude of the Bohr
magneton (e hbar)/2m. I set the electron model to have the
Bohr magneton for its magnetic moment by adjusting the
radius of the closed helical path of the helically moving
charged superluminal energy quantum so that its helically
circulating charge generates the Dirac equation electron's
Bohr magneton for the electron model. (Choosing a slightly
larger helical radius generates the electron’s exact
experimental value of magnetic moment which is a little
larger than the Bohr magneton’s
magnitude.)<br class=""><br class=""> Later I started
analyzing other people’s cyclical models of the electron
more closely. I found that Dirac had claimed that electrons
actually move at the speed of light, but that only a
sub-luminal speed can be observed. I found two analyses of
the Dirac equation that suggested that the path of a moving
electron’s charge can be described as light-speed along an
open helix. This gave me the idea to fit my model of the
circulating charged photon for a resting electron to this
light-speed helical approach. I realized that the
circulating photon in the electron model would have an
increased frequency f corresponding to its increased total
energy gamma mc^2 when the electron moves forward, and that
the corresponding wavelength of this circulating charged
photon would decrease with this increasing frequency, in
order to keep the speed of light of the circulating charged
photon constant. The radius of the charged photon’s helix
was found to decrease with increasing electron velocity by
the factor gamma^2 in order for the photon’s wavelength to
decrease as described as the frequency of the charged photon
increases with increasing electron speed and total energy.
All the math worked out nicely, including the generation of
the electron’s spin 1/2 hbar for a slow moving electron from
the tangential component mc of the charged photon’s total
momentum gamma mc along its helical axis, multiplied by the
radius hbar/2mc of the charged photon’s helical axis for a
slow moving electron. And I realized that any speed-of-light
double-looping photon model for an electron should also
follow a corresponding helical path whose radius decreases
in the same way with the electron’s increase speed. This is
because the result only depends on the relations E=hf,
p=h/lambda , and c= lambda f , the basic quantum
energy and momentum equations for a photon and the equation
for wave motion with speed
c.<br class=""><br class=""> Although I knew that any
acceptable electron model would have to generate the
relativistic de Broglie wavelength Ldb = h/(gamma mv) , I
was quite surprised that this result falls out so easily
from the circulating charged photon model of a moving
electron, where the longitudinal component of the
circulating charged photon’s wave vector k yields the wave
number that corresponds to the relativistic de Broglie
wavelength. Furthermore, this simple result for the origin
of the electron’s de Broglie wavelength suggests that the
quantum wave functions for a moving electron, which depend
heavily on the electron's de Broglie wavelength, are
produced mathematically from the waves generated by the
circulating charged photon that models the
electron.<br class=""><br class="">
Richard<br class=""><br class="">> On Feb 28, 2015, at 6:47 AM, Chip Akins
<<a style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline; COLOR: purple" href="mailto:chipakins@gmail.com" target="_blank" class=""><span style="COLOR: purple" class="">chipakins@gmail.com</span></a>>
wrote:<br class="">><br class="">> Hi Richard and ALL<br class="">><br class="">>
You asked for a comparison of electron
models.<br class="">><br class="">> Since 1986, while having lunch with
a mathematician, Eric Peterson, I have felt that the
electron was made up of EM waves, or a
photon.<br class="">><br class="">> Several of us have come to the same
conclusion.<br class="">><br class="">> When I saw your model from 2005
many things started to make sense. That is why I was
so excited and interested to fully pursue the math to try to
deeply understand your TEQ model. It was quite informative
and inspiring to see your work.<br class="">><br class="">> Since that
time, principally due to an Occam's razor argument, I have
returned to the view that TEQ's are not required to model
the electron. While I still feel that it may be
possible that TEQ's exist, I do not find, in my view, that
it is required for the modeling of the photon and
electron.<br class="">><br class="">> When I later saw John W and
Martin's work from 1997 I was again very interested,
principally because they were saying the same thing I was
thinking, in general.<br class="">><br class="">> While running the math
and testing the model from John W and Martin, it occurred to
me that we had to have some sort of photon model to build
the electron from. So I produced the simplest model I could
imagine which would fulfill what I felt then was the basic
criteria. My view of the basic criteria has since
changed due to this collaboration, so I am working now to
update my electron model. However it seems most of the
electron model remains intact.<br class="">><br class="">> The
fundamental differences between my model and John W. and
Martin's model are as
follows:<br class="">><br class="">>
I found that wave interference may be precisely the cause
for the exact value of the magnetic moment
anomaly, and the cause for the exact value for the
elementary
charge.<br class="">><br class="">>
That wave interference, incidentally, produces a new view of
the fine
structure
constant in the electron.<br class="">><br class="">> My motivation, in
part, to do this work, was because we have to provide an
electron model which is simple in comparison, and competes
with current theory and models in accuracy, before such a
model will be considered a viable
alternative.<br class="">><br class="">> My model currently falls short
of some of the goals that I feel we will need, in order for
our work to be considered noteworthy and to be eventually
accepted.<br class="">><br class="">> My model also demonstrates the
cause for inertial mass, but I think John W. and Martin's
model may illustrate the same property. And in fact, all
confined photon models may show the same attribute of
inertial mass.<br class="">><br class="">> There are implications of the
work we are doing which we also need to discuss. If
Matter is made from light, when you think about its
implications on relativity, leads to the existence of a
preferred reference rest frame in space, leading us toward
Chandra's view and CTF.<br class="">><br class="">> Working with all of
you is both enlightening and inspiring.<br class="">><br class="">>
Chip<br class="">><br class="">><br class="">><br class="">><br class="">> -----Original
Message-----<br class="">> From: General<br class="">> [mailto:<a style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline; COLOR: purple" href="mailto:general-bounces%2Bchipakins" target="_blank" class=""><span style="COLOR: purple" class="">general-bounces+chipakins</span></a>=<a style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline; COLOR: purple" href="mailto:gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandpart" target="_blank" class=""><span style="COLOR: purple" class="">gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandpart</span></a><br class="">>
<a style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline; COLOR: purple" href="http://icles.org/" target="_blank" class=""><span style="COLOR: purple" class="">icles.org</span></a>] On Behalf Of
Richard Gauthier<br class="">> Sent: Friday, February 27, 2015
11:10 PM<br class="">> To: Nature of Light and Particles - General
Discussion<br class="">> Subject: [General] double-loop electron
model discussion<br class="">><br class="">> I would like to start a
thread that focuses on comparing and contrasting the
various double-loop electron models, mainly John and
Martin’s (J/M's), Chip’s, Vivian's and mine, and any others
that people may know of, to find any common areas of
agreement, and any points of difference. I think we are all
agreed that the resting electron in our various models has
spin 1/2 hbar. Chip’s model is based on J/M's model. I’d
like to ask Chip, if I might, what commonalities and
differences exist between J/M’s electron model and Chip's
electron model. We can go on from there, if that’s
agreeable.<br class="">> Richard<br class="">>
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