<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Mar 13, 2015, at 8:54 AM, John Duffield <<a href="mailto:johnduffield@btconnect.com" class="">johnduffield@btconnect.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class="">
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<div class="">Richard,</div>
<div class=""> </div>
<div class="">Re your charge and light question:</div>
<div class=""> </div>
<div class=""><em class=""><font color="#0000ff" class="">how can matter such as electrons be made of light
if the light that electrons are made of is not electrically charged?</font></em>
</div>
<div class=""> </div>
<div class="">I think the best way to explain this is to refer to <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Displacement_current#History_and_interpretation" class="">displacement
current</a> wherein Maxwell said <em class=""><font face="Times New Roman" class="">light consists
of transverse undulations in the same medium that is the cause of electric and
magnetic phenomena</font>.</em> The photon is a sinusoidal field-variation,
rather like a seismic wave. Imagine that as it passes you by, space lurches left
by 3.86 x 10<font style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt" class="">⁻¹³</font>m, then it lurches right by
3.86 x 10<font style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt" class="">⁻¹³</font>m. You wrap this photon into a
tight double clockwise loop with a twist, such that you have a lurch-left loop
which varies sinusoidally, and another lurch-left loop which varies
sinusoidally. The latter used to be the lurch right, but it’s been twisted right
over. The two sinusoidal loops complement each other - think of a sine wave and
an upside-down sine wave fitting together. The result is that you end up with a
3.86 x 10<font style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt" class="">⁻¹³</font>m all-round clockwise skew. You
had a field-variation going along at c, and now it’s going around and round at
c, the wave is displacing its own path into a closed path, and it’s in such
harmony with itself that the field variation looks like a standing field. You
call this “knot” of self-bound field-variation a charged particle, and you call
this standing field an electromagnetic field. It isn’t totally unlike the
gravitomagnetic field, see below, but it’s a 3D skew. Imagine you grab a lattice
with your right hand and twist it round clockwise. Then you reach round the side
with your left hand and twist it orthogonally clockwise. Then you let go and the
thing stays put like a knot in a tennis net when your ball pocks into it and
catches. </div>
<div class=""> </div>
<div class=""><span id="cid:74A23DEE58D14615851620904667BC4F@HPlaptop"><gravmagdet[1].jpg></span> </div>
<div class=""> </div>
<div class=""><em class=""><font color="#0000ff" class="">Where’s the electron’s electric charge if it is not
associated with the light that the electron is made of?</font></em> </div>
<div class=""> </div>
<div class="">In the topology, in the configuration of the field-variation, in the
winding. Light is alternating displacement current moving linearly at c. When
you wrap this up just right into a closed path, the result is what you call a
charged particle. Then when you move that, you call it conduction current. But
this conduction current is just displacement current going round and round, and
linearly along. The electron’s intrinsic spin makes it what it is. It’s a bit
like a cyclone. A cyclone’s intrinsic spin makes it what it is. Take away the
rotation, and all you’ve got is wind. Do the same for an electron, and all
you’ve got is light. And how do you take away the rotation? With an anticyclone.
Or with a positron. </div>
<div class=""> </div>
<div class=""><em class=""><font color="#0000ff" class="">Have you considered and eliminated the possibility
that there may be two types or expressions of the photon, one uncharged and the
other charged? Since the nature and origin of electric charge is not understood
at all, I think it is bit premature to dismiss the concept of an electrically
charged photon that composes the electron.</font> </em></div>
<div class=""> </div>
<div class="">I like to think I do understand it, at least in outline, and would
reiterate that “the charged photon” will be used as ammunition to discredit
everything else you say. IMHO the model needs to match pair production where we
start with one or two uncharged photons, and where mass and charge are emergent.
Electron-positron annihilation is the reverse process. </div>
<div class=""> </div>
<div class=""><font color="#0000ff" class=""><em class="">I agree with you that the scientific enterprise has
its vested interests and that those proposing revolutionary physics ideas
outside the central paradigm are persona non grata to some of these folks.
Still, the American Physical Society is willing to give out-of-the-box ideas a
forum at their annual conferences. I will be presenting a short talk on the
electron as a charged photon with the de Broglie wavelength at their annual
April meeting in Baltimore. Andrew read the article and noted the derivation of
the de Broglie wavelength from the circulating charged photon model. John W.
commented that the model has something going for it. I would like to know if you
have found any holes in the derivation of the de Broglie wavelength in the
model, because it is one of the model’s most notable features. And if the
charged photon model of the electron is shown to be wrong, we’ve still learned
something. But if such new ideas can’t be proposed and discussed openly and
critically in this group, where on earth can they be
discussed?</em></font></div>
<div class=""> </div>
<div class="">Good luck with the talk, yes I think the model is partially correct. But I
also think the charged photon is something you really need to work on.
Apologies, I haven’t looked at the derivation of the de Broglie wavelength, I’ll
get back to you on that. But not for a while, I have to go away tomorrow, and
might be incommunicado for a week. As for new ideas, we are discussing them.
People are just a little respectful that’s all, and don’t want to cause offence.
</div>
<div class=""> </div>
<div class="">Regards</div>
<div class="">John D</div>
<div class=""> </div>
<div class=""> </div>
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<div style="font-color: black" class=""><b class="">From:</b> <a title="richgauthier@gmail.com" href="mailto:richgauthier@gmail.com" class="">Richard Gauthier</a> </div>
<div class=""><b class="">Sent:</b> Friday, March 13, 2015 3:53 AM</div>
<div class=""><b class="">To:</b> <a title="general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" class="">Nature of Light and
Particles - General Discussion</a> </div>
<div class=""><b class="">Subject:</b> Re: [General] double-loop electron model
discussion</div></div></div>
<div class=""> </div></div>
<div style="font-size: small; text-decoration: none; font-family: Calibri; font-weight: normal; font-style: normal; display: inline;" class="">
<div class="">John D.,</div>
<div class=""> Thank you for your thoughtful comments. Please help me to
understand them better. On the one hand, you have claimed least a couple of
times on this thread that matter is made of light. On the other hand you say
that the idea that a photon (i.e. light) can be electrically charged is
nonsense. So my question to you is: how can matter such as electrons be made of
light if the light that electrons are made of is not electrically charged?
Where’s the electron’s electric charge if it is not associated with the light
that the electron is made of? Have you considered and eliminated the possibility
that there may be two types or expressions of the photon, one uncharged and the
other charged? Since the nature and origin of electric charge is not understood
at all, I think it is bit premature to dismiss the concept of an electrically
charged photon that composes the electron. </div>
<div class=""> I agree with you that the scientific enterprise has its vested
interests and that those proposing revolutionary physics ideas outside the
central paradigm are persona non grata to some of these folks. Still, the
American Physical Society is willing to give out-of-the-box ideas a forum at
their annual conferences. I will be presenting a short talk on the electron as a
charged photon with the de Broglie wavelength at their annual April meeting in
Baltimore. Andrew read the article and noted the derivation of the de Broglie
wavelength from the circulating charged photon model. John W. commented that the
model has something going for it. I would like to know if you have found any
holes in the derivation of the de Broglie wavelength in the model, because it is
one of the model’s most notable features. And if the charged photon model of the
electron is shown to be wrong, we’ve still learned something. But if such new
ideas can’t be proposed and discussed openly and critically in this group, where
on earth can they be discussed?</div>
<div class=""> with warm regards,</div>
<div class=""> Richard</div>
<div class=""> </div>
<div class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">On Mar 11, 2015, at 1:41 AM, John Duffield <<a href="mailto:johnduffield@btconnect.com" class="">johnduffield@btconnect.com</a>>
wrote:</div>
<div class=""> </div>
<div class="">
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<div class="">Richard:</div>
<div class=""> </div>
<div class="">In an ideal world a consensus would emerge wherein everybody would agree
on the electron. This is supported by hard scientific evidence such as pair
production and electron diffraction and refraction, the Einstein-de Haas
effect, magnetic moment, electron spin, atomic orbitals where electrons “exist
as standing waves”, and annihilation to gamma photons. It’s pretty obvious
that an electron is a photon going round and round with some kind of spin
<font style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt" class="">½ 720-degree rotation, and that electron mass is
the result of this. When you annihilate the electron with the positron,
you’ve got a radiating body losing mass, just like <a href="https://www.fourmilab.ch/etexts/einstein/E_mc2/www/" class="">Einstein’s
paper</a>. What could <em class="">be</em> more obvious? </font></div>
<div class=""><font style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt" class=""></font> </div>
<div class=""><font style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt" class="">And yet John can’t get his paper on the
arXiv, because in this imperfect world there are vested interests who stand
four-square in the way of scientific progress. They will use anything they can
to discredit an idea. If they can find one little flaw they will magnify it
and maliciously claim that the author is some amateur crackpot who has got
everything else wrong, and who should be dismissed and disregarded. With
respect, your charged photon falls into that bracket: <em class="">a photon is not a
charged particle, ergo the whole idea is nonsense</em>. I would urge you
to think deeply about this, not just because of yourself, but because of the
impact it could have on this group. </font></div>
<div class=""><font style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt" class=""></font> </div>
<div class=""><font style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt" class="">All: </font></div>
<div class=""><font style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt" class=""></font> </div>
<div class=""><font style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt" class="">I would recommend a similar caution. If
there’s anything you’re tempted to say that might turn out to be wrong, be
aware that there are malicious people out there who will use it against you
and the group. It’s one thing to kick things around in group emails, but it’s
another thing to include it in a paper. If in doubt, leave it out.
</font></div>
<div class=""><font style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt" class=""></font> </div>
<div class="">Regards</div>
<div class="">John</div>
<div class=""> </div>
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<div style="font-color: black" class=""><b class="">From:</b> <a title="richgauthier@gmail.com" href="mailto:richgauthier@gmail.com" class="">Richard Gauthier</a> </div>
<div class=""><b class="">Sent:</b> Wednesday, March 11, 2015 6:18 AM</div>
<div class=""><b class="">To:</b> <a title="general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" class="">Nature of Light and
Particles - General Discussion</a> </div>
<div class=""><b class="">Subject:</b> Re: [General] double-loop electron model
discussion</div></div></div>
<div class=""> </div></div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE: small; TEXT-DECORATION: none; FONT-FAMILY: calibri; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; FONT-STYLE: normal; DISPLAY: inline" class="">Hello
John,
<div class=""> Thank you for your further clarifications. I think that your
and Martin’s 1997 electron model (with its ongoing improvements) still leads
the (somewhat rarified) field, though Chip’s model may be catching up fast. My
charged photon model of the electron seems to be waiting in the wings,
although I think it has one or two things going for it, such as its simplicity
(but not too simple), its generality (it could accommodate a variety of
different photon models), its resemblance to Dirac’s light-speed electron, and
its ease of generating the relativistic de Broglie wavelength of a moving
electron. The charged photon model only requires that the charged photon
has the photon properties E=hf, p=h/lambda and c=f lambda, and
move in a closed double-looped path of 1 Compton wavelength h/mc in the case
of a resting electron (thus generating zitterbewegung motion and a natural
spin of 1/2 hbar). You and Martin have said that your photon with toroidal
topology is not charged, but I think you will agree that this model, when
moving through physical space, will be closely accompanied by its effective
electric charge. And that may be close enough to say that this circulating
photon is charged, even though the circulating photon's charge is not moving
at light-speed with the photon. A resting electron has “rest mass". The
circulating photon composing the electron therefore has “rest mass" (or
inertia) also, which it somehow gets by confining itself. I think we all
somehow agree about this. </div>
<div class=""> As Bohr once said to Pauli, “we all agree that your new
model is crazy. Where we differ is whether it is crazy enough.”</div>
<div class="">
Richard</div>
<div class="">
<div class=""> </div>
<div class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">On Mar 9, 2015, at 10:19 PM, John Williamson <<a href="mailto:John.Williamson@glasgow.ac.uk" class="">John.Williamson@glasgow.ac.uk</a>>
wrote:</div>
<div class=""> </div>
<div class="">
<div style="WHITE-SPACE: normal; WORD-SPACING: 0px; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; DIRECTION: ltr; FONT: 10pt tahoma; LETTER-SPACING: normal; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px" class="">Oh
dear me,<br class=""><br class="">I am trying to clarify the meaning of Martin and my old
model, but I seem just to be confusing everyone more. Apologies for this. I
think we should perhaps try to concentrate on saying what our our models
mean - and not say what other models mean. At the risk of sowing (yet more)
confusion ...<br class=""><br class="">No, no no (and no).<br class=""><br class="">No: I did not say the photon
spin in the electron model was 1 hbar, but that the result was a full twist.
To define spin one needs a spin axis and there is no single axis for (the
photon) spin. It tumbles, giving a "quantum bicycle" motion. The spin may be
seen as being more like 1-1/2 = 1/2 - but this is far too simple and not the
way it was put in. It was calculated by integration - not by adding
numbers.<br class=""><br class="">No -the differences you suggest are not the differences I
see. For me, some differences are<br class=""><br class="">The EFFECTIVE half integral spin
comes from the initial photon MOMENTUM , not its angular momentum. This is
just R(eff) cross p (as you say for your model). The characteristic R (eff)
is, for us lc/4pi precisely because the mode structure is a single
wavelength. This R is not in the same space as the fields, but in a space
related by division (by differentiation - to be more precise). THe two
valuedness comes, for us, because that space is more closely related to
complex numbers (scalar aND PSEUDOSCALaR SPACE) than to 3D space or 4D space
and time.<br class=""><br class="">The reason this is a fermion is that the resultant complete
motion is A) double covering, and B) interferes to give a (strong) repulsive
force for same state systems. It is only secondarily that this happens to
integrate to give an, overall , half integral spin numerically. The numerics
are, once again, not really important for the model. Real photons may have
(and, as Chandra pointed out, are measured experimentally to have) any spin.
1 hbar is a limit, not a rule.<br class=""><br class="">No we do (and did not ) put the
"Harmony of phases" in: it comes out.<br class=""><br class="">We do not put charge in: it
comes out.<br class=""><br class="">All paths in our model are lightspeed. There are no
superluminal (or subluminal) paths.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""><br class="">Our electron is not a
little donut whizzing around in space (this would be inconsistent with the
experimental observation that electrons are, apparently, spherically
symmetric) - but in the projected space of the fields and
momenta.<br class=""><br class="">Your argument about the increase in the angular momentum
would be true for a charged photon on a rigid bar attached to a real axis.
This is not the same model as we use.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""><br class="">In your argument about soin
you seem to be mixing the transformation properties of fields with those of
material particles. The reason a photon angular momentum remains constant
under a Lorentz transformation (not in the 1997 paper but in the 2014 paper
not in arXiv) is that, to maintain linearity, the transverse size scales
inversely with the energy. This is because fields transform TRANSVERSE ONLY
under a Lorentz transformation, not along the direction of motion
LONGITUDINALLY ONLY(as do the velocities or momenta). There is a good
discussion about this in Stephen's thesis.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">What this means is that photons
shrink laterally at the inverse rate as their energy-momentum increases -
hence keeping a constant angular momentum. This scaling happens for photons
(experimentally) for field (relativistically), and also for any electron
made of a photon or photons. Real electrons also, do not exhibit a spin
about an axis under all circumstances, but only if one tries to measure them
(against an experimental axis) - in which case one gets one of two values -
spin "up" or spin " down". That two-valuedness is, pretty much, what SU(2)
is in the standard model.<br class=""><br class="">On the concept of "charged" photon. Charge
is a non-zero field divergence. Such a thing, necessarily, has a rest mass
associated with it - just from the integral of field squared in the frame
where it is spherical (for Beamon, in the example I just circulated). One
then has a rest-massive photon. For me the definition of a photon is that it
is rest-massless. The charge, for me comes about because of the local
confinement. This means that saying "charged photon" sounds to me like
saying "massless mass". This is probably just my problem!<br class=""><br class="">Ho-hum ...
hope I have not made things even worse!<br class=""><br class="">Regards, John.<br class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 16px; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman'" class="">
<hr tabindex="-1" class="">
<div id="divRpF185967" style="DIRECTION: ltr" class=""><font size="2" face="Tahoma" class=""><b class="">From:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>General [<a href="mailto:general-bounces+john.williamson=glasgow.ac.uk@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" class="">general-bounces+john.williamson=glasgow.ac.uk@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>]
on behalf of Richard Gauthier [<a href="mailto:richgauthier@gmail.com" class="">richgauthier@gmail.com</a>]<br class=""><b class="">Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Tuesday, March 10, 2015 1:27
AM<br class=""><b class="">To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Nature of
Light and Particles - General Discussion<br class=""><b class="">Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [General] double-loop electron
model discussion<br class=""></font><br class=""></div>
<div class=""></div>
<div class="">
<div class="">Hi Chip, John and Martin,</div>
<div class=""> </div>
<div class="">First let me answer, for the case of the charged photon model, the
basic questions that I posed to both of you about your models, as a basis
for a preliminary comparison of the three models based on their size,
internal frequency and internal wavelength. Vivian is welcome to jump in
also, and anyone else with a photon-based, or light-speed or non-light-speed
charge-based electron model.</div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""> </div></div>
<div class="">
<div style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><font face="Helvetica, sans-serif" class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt" class="">My first set of questions was: What is the spin of
the circulating photon in your model? Is its spin 1 hbar even though your
electron model has net spin 1/2 hbar? If so, is this spin 1 hbar of your
electron model’s photon observable? If not, in what sense does this
circulating photon have spin 1 hbar? John said that it is 1 hbar in his and
Martin's model, while Chip </span>said<span style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt" class=""> that it
is 1/2 hbar in his model due to being confined.</span></font></div></div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: helvetica, sans-serif" class=""><br class=""></span></div>
<div style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><font face="Helvetica, sans-serif" class="">First,
my current proposal (“The electron is a charged photon with the de Broglie
wavelength” ) does not contain a specific photon model (I have not inserted
into it my internally superluminal photon model from previous work). The
current proposal does assume that for the charged photon, c=L f , E=hf
and P=h/L , where c= speed of light, f is photon frequency, L is
photon wavelength, E is photon energy and P is photon momentum, the same
relations as for an uncharged photon. </font></div>
<div style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><font face="Helvetica, sans-serif" class=""><br class=""></font></div>
<div style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><font face="Helvetica, sans-serif" class="">Answers:
The instantaneous spin of the circulating charged photon in a resting
electron in the charged photon model would have to be 1/2 hbar if it is to
remain constant for a moving electron model. This instantaneous spin 1/2
hbar averages out to zero in the case of a resting electron model (as John's
and Martin’s spin 1 hbar photon does also). In the charged photon model, the
electron's spin Sz = 1/2 hbar is due to the r x Ptransverse of the
circulating photon around the circular radius hbar/2mc. But in the case of a
relativistic electron moving in the z-direction (x-y is the photon’s plane
in a resting electron), the charged photon moves in a helical trajectory and
has a NON-ZERO average spin component along the z-axis. As the electron
becomes more relativistic, the spin 1/2 hbar of the helically circulating
photon along the z-axis dominates the spin caused by r x Ptransverse, which
now goes to zero since the helical radius r decreases as 1/gamma^2 in a
relativistic electron while Ptransverse remains constant even and the
electron’s linear momentum increases. The charged photon model continues to
have spin 1/2 hbar at relativistic velocities. This is now due to the spin
1/2 hbar of the circulating photon in the resting electron that now is
moving mostly in the z direction and not averaging out to zero. So even
though the spin 1/2 of the circulating photon in the resting electron is not
manifested, this spin 1/2 hbar photon spin manifests more and more in a
moving and then relativistic electron. If the instantaneous spin of the
circulating photon in a resting electron were 1 hbar, the electron’s Sz
would go from spin 1/2 hbar in a slow moving electron to spin 1 hbar as the
speed of the electron increased and became relativistic. This would violate
conservation of angular momentum for the moving electron.</font></div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: helvetica, sans-serif" class=""><br class=""></span></div>
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: helvetica, sans-serif" class=""> My
second set of questions: Does the circulating photon move along a helical
trajectory when the electron model has velocity v perpendicular to the plane
of its circulating photon’s closed circle trajectory when at rest? If so,
does the radius of this helical trajectory continue to be hbar/2mc as
the electron model's speed increases, or does the radius of this helical
trajectory change with electron speed by some factor? Does the
circulating photon’s frequency of circulation increase in proportion to the
total energy E=gamma mc^2 of the electron? If so, does the circulating
photon's wavelength correspondingly decrease inversely proportional to
gamma? If not, how does the photon’s frequency depend on the electron
model’s velocity?</span></div></div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: helvetica, sans-serif" class=""><br class=""></span></div>
<div style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><font face="Helvetica, sans-serif" class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt" class="">Answers: These questions are partially answered above
for the charged </span>photon model.<span style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt" class=""> The
circulating charged photon does move in a helical trajectory whose radius is
Ro/gamma^2 where Ro is hbar/2mc , the radius of the circular axis of a
resting electron. This decreasing helical radius with gamma^2 is required if
the photon is to </span>keep moving at light-speed as its frequency
increases in proportion to gamma (due to the increasing speed and total
energy of the electron) while its wavelength decreases in proportion to
1/gamma (to keep c of the charged photon constant). <span style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt" class="">The </span>circulating charged photon’s frequency f
DOES increase in proportion to the electron’s (or charged photon’s) total
energy E=gamma mc^2 = hf . The circulating charged photon’s wavelength L
DOES decrease as the electron’s speed increases, as L=h/(gamma mc)=
Lcompton/gamma.</font></div>
<div style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><font face="Helvetica, sans-serif" class=""><br class=""></font></div>
<div style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><font face="Helvetica, sans-serif" class="">John’s
and Martin’s model generates the de Broglie wavelength by the “harmony of
phases” approach used by de Broglie. In terms of how John’s and Martin’s
electron size scales down with increasing speed, the blue-shifted portion of
the model decreases with size and seems to account (along with the single
particle nature of the photon) for the small apparent size of the electron
in high energy collisions. (Their explanation: the electron size scales with
the blue-shifted photon size at higher energies since the electron is
electromagnetic in nature). This model assumes that both blue and red
doppler shifting are produced as the electron moves faster and faster in a
sideways direction. But if the electron’s velocity is in the same direction
as the electron’s spin, the motion is all forward (blue) shifting and no
reverse (red) shifting, isn’t it, as the photon composing the electron
always moves helically forward in the z direction. Presumably John’s and
Martin’s explanation for the scaling of a high energy electron's size would
still apply here?</font></div>
<div style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><font face="Helvetica, sans-serif" class=""><br class=""></font></div>
<div style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><font face="Helvetica, sans-serif" class="">Chip’s
method of generating the de Broglie wavelength from his model seems
essentially the same as mine — the decreasing L of the circulating photon
gives a longitudinal component of its wave vector k along the longitudinal
direction, which generates the de Broglie wavelength of the electron. But
Chip’s electron model, like John’s and Martin’s model (and the charged
photon model also) could generate the de Broglie wavelength by the “harmony
of phases” approach. This approach is consistent with (but more complicated
than) the charged photon’s de Broglie wavelength-generating
approach.</font></div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: helvetica, sans-serif" class=""></span> </div>
<div style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><font face="Helvetica, sans-serif" class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt" class="">I have only </span>tried to extract a beginning
comparison of these three models based on their basic size, frequency and
internal wavelength parameters and how these may change with the electron's
motion.</font></div>
<div style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><font face="Helvetica, sans-serif" class="">Please
correct any errors in my description of your models.</font></div>
<div style="MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><font face="Helvetica, sans-serif" class="">
</font></div>
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: helvetica, sans-serif" class="">
with warm regards,</span></div></div>
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: helvetica, sans-serif" class="">
Richard</span></div></div></div>
<div class=""> </div>
<div class=""> </div>
<div class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">On Mar 9, 2015, at 9:19 AM, Chip Akins <<a href="mailto:chipakins@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">chipakins@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div>
<div class=""> </div>
<div class="">
<div class="WordSection1" style="WHITE-SPACE: normal; WORD-SPACING: 0px; TEXT-TRANSFORM: none; FONT: 12px helvetica; LETTER-SPACING: normal; TEXT-INDENT: 0px">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span class="">Hi
Richard</span></div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span class=""></span> </div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span class="">To
answer your questions regarding my electron model…</span></div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span class=""></span> </div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span class="">Richard
Wrote:</span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: helvetica, sans-serif" class=""><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>“What is the spin of the
circulating photon with toroidal topology in your model? Is it spin 1 hbar
even though your electron model has spin 1/2 hbar? If so, is this spin 1
hbar of your electron model’s photon observable? If not, in what sense
does this circulating photon have spin 1 hbar?”</span><span class=""></span></div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span class=""></span> </div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span class="">In
my model the spin of the photon itself, when confined, is changed, and
becomes the spin of the electron. My model uses a circular plane wave
model for the confined photon. There is no required toroidal topology in
the model, but certain toroidal topologies (if defined correctly) may work
just as well. The hbar spin of the photon creates a velocity vector, the
square root of 2 times<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><i class="">c</i>. This is the
circulation velocity of the photon confined in the electron with a spin of
½ hbar. The new R<sub class="">0</sub><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span style="FONT-FAMILY: calibri, sans-serif" class="">transport radius,<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span class="">for the electron is
then<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span style="FONT-FAMILY: calibri, sans-serif" class="">2.73055834982988E-13m. When
field interference at the center of rotation is accounted for, the
effective electromagnetic radius is larger than the transport radius, so
that the effective EM radius is 1.001159601916102 times larger than the
transport radius.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><i class="">This
yields the exact values for charge and magnetic moment of the
electron.</i></span><span class=""></span></div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span class="">Without
including this velocity correction to the fields we cannot obtain enough
“charge” to get the actual value of<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><i class="">e</i>, the elementary charge,
so this is a critical point. If we keep the velocity c, for the internal
circulation velocity in a double looped electron model which generated
topological charge, we either wind up with a magnetic moment anomaly, or
with insufficient charge.</span></div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span class=""></span> </div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span class="">Richard
Wrote:</span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: helvetica, sans-serif" class=""><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>“Does the circulating photon with
toroidal topology move along a helical trajectory when the electron model
has velocity v perpendicular to the plane of its circulating photon’s
closed circle trajectory when at rest? If so, does the radius of this
helical trajectory continue to be hbar/2mc (the same as for your resting
electron model) as the electron model's speed increases, or does the
radius of this helical trajectory change with electron speed by some
factor? Does the circulating photon’s frequency of circulation increase in
proportion to the total energy E=gamma mc^2 of the electron? If so, does
the circulating photon's wavelength correspondingly decrease inversely
proportional to gamma? If not, how does the photon’s frequency
depend on the electron model’s velocity?”</span></div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span class=""></span> </div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span class="">My
electron model, when accelerated, is described by:</span></div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span class=""></span> </div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span class="">Electron
energy<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; POSITION: relative; TOP: 3pt" class=""><span id="cid:image001.png@01D05A5A.F168D440" class=""><image001.png></span></span></div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class="">Photon
frequency<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; POSITION: relative; TOP: 7pt" class=""><span id="cid:image003.png@01D05A5A.F168D440" class=""><image003.png></span></span><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>= Electron Frequency<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; POSITION: relative; TOP: 7pt" class=""><span id="cid:image005.png@01D05A5A.F168D440" class=""><image005.png></span></span></div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class="">Photon
wavelength<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; POSITION: relative; TOP: 8.5pt" class=""><span id="cid:image006.png@01D05A5A.F168D440" class=""><image006.png></span></span></div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class="">Transport
radius<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; POSITION: relative; TOP: 7pt" class=""><span id="cid:image007.png@01D05A5A.F168D440" class=""><image007.png></span></span></div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""> </div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class="">Where<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; POSITION: relative; TOP: 3pt" class=""><span id="cid:image008.png@01D05A5A.F168D440" class=""><image008.png></span></span><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>is Lorentz correction,<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; POSITION: relative; TOP: 4.5pt" class=""><span id="cid:image009.png@01D05A5A.F168D440" class=""><image009.png></span></span><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>is the square root of 2 times
c.</div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""> </div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class="">So
with acceleration the energy increases, frequency increases, radius
decreases, etc.</div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""> </div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class="">Are
there portions of these items which I have failed to make clear in the
paper? Not always the best at communication some of the
detail.</div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""> </div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class="">Chip<span class=""></span></div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span class=""></span> </div>
<div class="">
<div style="BORDER-TOP: rgb(225,225,225) 1pt solid; BORDER-BOTTOM-STYLE: none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-TOP: 3pt; BORDER-RIGHT-STYLE: none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; BORDER-LEFT-STYLE: none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in" class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><b class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: calibri, sans-serif" class="">From:</span></b><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: calibri, sans-serif" class=""><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>General [<a style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline; COLOR: purple" href="mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank" class="">mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>]<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="">On Behalf Of<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Richard
Gauthier<br class=""><b class="">Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Monday, March 09, 2015 10:34
AM<br class=""><b class="">To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Nature of
Light and Particles - General Discussion<br class=""><b class="">Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [General] double-loop
electron model discussion</span></div></div></div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""> </div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class="">Chip,
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class="">
Could you please also answer the short questions below about your electron
model, that I put to John and Martin about their electron model. This
might turn into a small survey about features in common or different among
the various photon-based models of the electron.Thanks.</div></div>
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class="">
By the way, I learned that Martin Rivas who also has a Dirac related
electron model is following me on ResearchGate. John W. knows his work
also. Rivas has a speed-of-light trajectory of a helically circulating
point charge in his electron model.</div></div>
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class="">
Richard</div></div>
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""> </div>
<div class="">
<blockquote style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt; MARGIN-TOP: 5pt" type="cite" class="">
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class="">On
Mar 8, 2015, at 8:23 PM, Richard Gauthier <<a style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline; COLOR: purple" href="mailto:richgauthier@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">richgauthier@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div></div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""> </div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: helvetica, sans-serif" class="">John and
Martin,</span></div></div>
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: helvetica, sans-serif" class="">
I have a few basic questions about your electron model that I don’t
think are answered in your paper. Short answers are OK, if possible.
Longer answers or explanations are welcome.</span></div></div>
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: helvetica, sans-serif" class="">My first set
of questions: What is the spin of the circulating photon with toroidal
topology in your model? Is it spin 1 hbar even though your electron
model has spin 1/2 hbar? If so, is this spin 1 hbar of your electron
model’s photon observable? If not, in what sense does this circulating
photon have spin 1 hbar?</span></div></div>
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: helvetica, sans-serif" class="">
My second set of questions: Does the circulating photon with toroidal
topology move along a helical trajectory when the electron model has
velocity v perpendicular to the plane of its circulating photon’s closed
circle trajectory when at rest? If so, does the radius of this helical
trajectory continue to be hbar/2mc (the same as for your resting
electron model) as the electron model's speed increases, or does the
radius of this helical trajectory change with electron speed by
some factor? Does the circulating photon’s frequency of circulation
increase in proportion to the total energy E=gamma mc^2 of the electron?
If so, does the circulating photon's wavelength correspondingly decrease
inversely proportional to gamma? If not, how does the photon’s
frequency depend on the electron model’s velocity?</span></div></div>
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: helvetica, sans-serif" class="">
with warm regards,</span></div></div>
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: helvetica, sans-serif" class="">
Richard</span></div></div>
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: helvetica, sans-serif" class="">
</span></div></div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""> </div>
<div class="">
<blockquote style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt; MARGIN-TOP: 5pt" type="cite" class="">
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: helvetica, sans-serif" class="">On Mar 7,
2015, at 4:43 AM, John Duffield <<a style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline; COLOR: purple" href="mailto:johnduffield@btconnect.com" target="_blank" class="">johnduffield@btconnect.com</a>>
wrote:</span></div></div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: helvetica, sans-serif" class=""></span> </div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: calibri, sans-serif" class="">John:</span></div></div>
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: calibri, sans-serif" class=""></span> </div></div>
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: calibri, sans-serif" class="">Not good. I’m afraid there’s
a lot more censorship around than people appreciate.<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span></div></div>
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: calibri, sans-serif" class=""></span> </div></div>
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: calibri, sans-serif" class="">By the way, <span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><a title="http://www.amazon.co.uk/Science-Fiction-Phony-Particle-Physics/dp/1888820810/ref=tmm_pap_title_0?ie=UTF8&qid=1425732021&sr=1-1" style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline; COLOR: purple" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/Science-Fiction-Phony-Particle-Physics/dp/1888820810/ref=tmm_pap_title_0?ie=UTF8&qid=1425732021&sr=1-1" target="_blank" class="">the phony side of particle physics</a><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>was interesting reading.<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span></div></div>
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: calibri, sans-serif" class=""></span> </div></div>
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: calibri, sans-serif" class="">Regards</span></div></div>
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: calibri, sans-serif" class="">John</span></div></div>
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: calibri, sans-serif" class=""></span> </div></div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class=""></span> </div></div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(245,245,245)" class=""><b class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">From:</span></b><span class="apple-converted-space"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class=""> </span></span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class=""><a title="John.Williamson@glasgow.ac.uk" style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline; COLOR: purple" href="mailto:John.Williamson@glasgow.ac.uk" target="_blank" class="">John
Williamson</a></span></div></div>
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(245,245,245)" class=""><b class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">Sent:</span></b><span class="apple-converted-space"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class=""> </span></span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">Saturday,
March 07, 2015 6:06 AM</span></div></div>
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(245,245,245)" class=""><b class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">To:</span></b><span class="apple-converted-space"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class=""> </span></span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class=""><a title="general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline; COLOR: purple" href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank" class="">Nature of Light and Particles - General
Discussion</a></span></div></div>
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: rgb(245,245,245)" class=""><b class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">Subject:</span></b><span class="apple-converted-space"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class=""> </span></span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">Re: [General]
double-loop electron model discussion</span></div></div></div></div>
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: calibri, sans-serif" class=""></span> </div></div></div>
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<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 12pt"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">Hihi .. look
what I just got from arxiv ...</span></p>
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<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span class="rwrro"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">arXiv
Moderation [<a style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline; COLOR: purple" href="mailto:moderation@arxiv.org" target="_blank" class="">moderation@arxiv.org</a>]</span></span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class=""></span></div></div>
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<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; BORDER-TOP: windowtext 1pt solid; FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif; BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 1pt solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 1pt solid; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 1pt solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in" class=""><span id="cid:~WRD000.jpg" class=""><~WRD000.jpg></span><span id="cid:~WRD000.jpg" class=""><~WRD000.jpg></span><span id="cid:~WRD000.jpg" class=""><~WRD000.jpg></span></span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class=""></span></div></div>
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<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">Actions<span style="BORDER-TOP: windowtext 1pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT: windowtext 1pt solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: windowtext 1pt solid; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: windowtext 1pt solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in" class=""><span id="cid:~WRD000.jpg" class=""><~WRD000.jpg></span></span></span></div></div>
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<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span class="nowrap"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">To:</span></span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class=""></span></div></div>
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<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class=""> <span class="rwrro">John
Williamson</span> </span></div></div></div></div></div></div>
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<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class=""></span> </div></div></div></div>
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<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">Friday, March
06, 2015 7:24 PM</span></div></div></div></div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">Your
submission has been removed upon a notice from our moderators, who
determined it inappropriate for arXiv. Our moderators suggest
that you please send your paper to a conventional journal instead.
<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""><br class="">Please do not
resubmit this paper without contacting moderation for permission, and
obtaining a positive response. Resubmission of removed papers
may result in suspension of submission privileges.<br class=""><br class="">For more
information on our moderation policies see:<br class=""><br class=""> <span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><a style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline; COLOR: purple" href="http://arxiv.org/help/moderation" target="_blank" class="">http://arxiv.org/help/moderation</a><br class=""><br class="">--<br class="">arXiv
moderation</span></div>
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</div>
<div id="divRpF847897" class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 12pt"><b class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">From:</span></b><span class="apple-converted-space"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class=""> </span></span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">General [<a style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline; COLOR: purple" href="mailto:general-bounces+john.williamson=glasgow.ac.uk@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank" class="">general-bounces+john.williamson=glasgow.ac.uk@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>]
on behalf of John Williamson [<a style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline; COLOR: purple" href="mailto:John.Williamson@glasgow.ac.uk" target="_blank" class="">John.Williamson@glasgow.ac.uk</a>]<br class=""><b class="">Sent:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Saturday, March 07, 2015 6:03
AM<br class=""><b class="">To:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Nature
of Light and Particles - General Discussion<br class=""><b class="">Subject:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [General] double-loop
electron model discussion</span></p></div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">Good for you
Richard,<br class=""><br class="">That is a very good starting point for discussion. The
reason Dirac did not model the electron as a charged object, however,
was that he was aware that this would produce problems for a light-
speed object, not that he missed something. Photons are not charged -
this is (for me) part of the essential difference between photons and
electrons (the other is the fermionic aspect). This needs to come out
of a proper theory, or model, not be put in a-priori. While I am proud
of Martin and my old model (in that it both derives charge and
half-integral spin), it is by no means the whole story two decades
later. I think it is unproductive to argue too much about what the old
models do or do not mean. The electron is no more, simply, a localised
photon, than the photon is a pure overlap state of a couple of
electrons. We need to develop the new theory to explain both photon
and electron from first principles, deriving both charge and fermions
from bosons - and explaining why the basic fermions can carry charge,
whereas (the W's notwithstanding) wheres the rest-massless boson does
not. I do not think the W or the Z are "fundamental" either, but their
properties should (equally) emerge from the proper theory that Martin
and I are working on.<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""><br class="">Also the statements
of Hestenes and Rivas, are not "results" in the experimental sense,
but theoretical speculations. They cannot and must not be taken as god
given. I'm hoping to write a proper explanation of some of the seminal
experiments on the experimental point properties of the electron later
this weekend. I was lucky enough to have been the actual person who
carried out (two sets of the actual) seminal experiments on this
decades ago. It is about time I explained it properly with the
references - and hope to have a go at this within this discussion
forum if I can muster the time or energy to make a proper job of
it.<br class=""><br class="">Regards, John.</span></div>
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<div id="divRpF7948" class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 12pt"><b class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">From:</span></b><span class="apple-converted-space"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class=""> </span></span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">General [<a style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline; COLOR: purple" href="mailto:general-bounces+john.williamson=glasgow.ac.uk@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank" class="">general-bounces+john.williamson=glasgow.ac.uk@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>]
on behalf of Richard Gauthier [<a style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline; COLOR: purple" href="mailto:richgauthier@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">richgauthier@gmail.com</a>]<br class=""><b class="">Sent:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Saturday, March 07, 2015 5:42
AM<br class=""><b class="">To:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Nature
of Light and Particles - General Discussion<br class=""><b class="">Subject:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [General] double-loop
electron model discussion</span></p></div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class="">Hi
John W., Martin, Andrew and others,</div></div>
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<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""> </div></div>
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<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class="">
I think that the present company can mostly agree about one feature
common to our various electron models — they are composed in some way
of a double-looping photon of basic radius hbar/2mc, which is the
Compton wavelength h/mc divided by 4pi . This is also the
characteristic vibrational amplitude of the electron found from the
Dirac equation. So I think we’re on firm ground with our electron
models here (though we are a small group). But then differences are
seen when we discuss the nature and location of the electric charge of
an electron.</div></div>
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""> </div></div>
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class="">
I think we need to keep in mind that Dirac claimed, based on his
equation and successful experimental predictions from his equation,
that the electron travels at light speed, although he says its
observable velocity is always less that light speed. The same could
apply to the electron’s charge. Hestenes and Rivas in separate
analyses of the Dirac equation found that the electron can be modeled
as a light speed electric charge moving in a helical trajectory of
radius hbar/2mc. The electron’s “center of charge” rotates around its
“center of mass” at light speed, claims Rivas. This is the case
even when the electron is at “rest” and the light-speed charge’s
helical path becomes a closed circular path. So John, when you say, as
does Martin similarly, that "<span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">Speed of
light "charge" cannot happen, in this picture, precisely because
of this frame-bound (rest-massive) form”<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span>you seem to be going
against these two Dirac-equation related analyses which have the
electron’s charge moving at light-speed even in a resting electron.
How do you explain this discrepency between your electron model and
these results?</div></div>
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<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""> </div></div>
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<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class="">
Now Dirac did not claim that the electron is a helically-circulating
charged photon. Neither did de Broglie. Both had the opportunity to do
so, starting with de Broglie's E=mc^2=hf for the stationary
electron. In my opinion, if either had, and had then derived the
de Broglie wavelength from this charged photon, this view would be
commonly accepted as obvious today. But for some reason there seems to
have developed a collective “mental block” among physicists, starting
perhaps with de Broglie and persisting until today, that the equation
gamma mc^2=hf does NOT indicate that the moving electron is a kind of
photon, but rather that the electron is a material object with a
certain energy-related internal vibrational frequency which increases
in proportion to the total energy of the electron in a way that, due
to a “harmony of phases” leads to the de Broglie wavelength and the
idea of ‘matter-waves’. Perhaps this collective mental block or
dogmatic way of thinking about electrons had its origin in Planck’s
endowing his proposed material oscillators in the walls of a
blackbody’s cavity with energies having integral multiples of hf.
There is now also a kind of dogma that photons have to have spin 1, so
that the idea that the electron can be a variety of photon with spin
1/2 is dismissed as impossible or inconceivable, even laughable as a
kind of logical contradiction, if it presents itself to mind at all.
All of this is understandable. New ideas in physics are not easily
accepted, and rightly so. Dogmas, especially when they may have served
some useful purpose in the past, die hard.</div></div>
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""> </div></div>
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<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class="">
But I digress. Whether the electron’s charge moves at sub-light speed
or at light speed can be a point of reasonable disagreement. But the
various proposals that the electron is a double-looping photon with
its effective charge at the center of the loop (Williamson and van der
Mark), a double-looping light-speed electric charge (Hestenes, Rivas)
or a double-looping charged photon, all perhaps can claim at least
some rational support and could therefore form the basis for a common
presentation about the nature of the electron in relation to the
photon.</div></div>
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<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""> </div></div>
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class="">
with best regards,</div></div>
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class="">
Richard</div></div>
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""> </div></div>
<div class="">
<blockquote style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt; MARGIN-TOP: 5pt" type="cite" class="">
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class="">On
Mar 6, 2015, at 12:26 AM, John Williamson <<a style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline; COLOR: purple" href="mailto:John.Williamson@glasgow.ac.uk" target="_blank" class="">John.Williamson@glasgow.ac.uk</a>>
wrote:</div></div>
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""> </div></div>
<div class="">
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 12pt"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">Agreed
Andrew,<br class=""><br class="">We need to realise that we are all "ignorant" in
certain respects - and indeed that "science" is also , presently,
completely ignorant in certain respects. We need to break this cycle
of ignorance. We need the picture to make sense in science as a
whole. If we (I hope!) come up with a complete picture, it
must be right everywhere and only just right - explaining, amongst
other things- both the nature of and reason for quantisation and the
nature of charge.<br class=""><br class="">In the paper I aim to present I hope to
argue that one can start from an underlying picture of continuous
fields, show how and why these must be quantised and then use that
quantised (E=hf) object to show why and how the (quantised) electron
charge arises. In that sense I would say that I then "know" what
charge is - in terms of the deeper set of principles used to
describe it in terms of that theory. Others may say that,
within QED charge is that thing which emits and absorbs photons, the
carriers of the electromagnetic force and may claim, therefore to
"understand" what charge is. In my view, there is a big difference
between putting charge in a-priori and understanding what it is.
Likewise, in the Maxwell equations the "charge" is understood simply
as the electric field divergence. This then begs the question of the
nature of the charge. The fact that it is defined here as a
divergence means that it must have a form related to a particular
frame - just as Martin says. Speed of light "charge" cannot happen,
in this picture, precisely because of this frame-bound
(rest-massive) form.<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""><br class="">In our 1997 paper,
we put in (a subset of) the experimental properties of the
(uncharged) photon and got out an estimate of the charge. We
demanded a set of non-crossing, precisely lightspeed, paths.
It was these starting points that led to the properties we derived.
The charge arose in this model because the oscillating (a.c) photon
field was re-configured to give a (d.c.) radial component. That
re-configuration (a knotting) required an equal and opposite
re-configuration an (antiknot) to give a detailed, smooth transition
from cartesian (corkscrew -zero divergence) to toroidal (positive
and negative radial) co-ordinates. The half integral spin to what
John D calls the Dirac belt trick. The anomalous magnetic moment
calculation to a rigorous demand that all paths have the same phase
length, and be precisely lightspeed. That article is history though.
Still good, I think, in terms of its starting postulates, but we
need to move on to a deeper theory that gives BOTH electron AND
photon solutions from an underlying theory.<br class=""><br class="">As we talk about
this I see many holes and fallacies in what others are saying, I'm
expecting (and hoping!), to be challenged on my own areas of
ignorance. This is best done on proper, carefully argued papers, not
loose emails with half-understood starting points derived from other
authority.<br class=""><br class="">It is through interaction and proper discussion
that ignorance can be resolved.<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""><br class="">Regards,
John.<br class=""><br class=""></span></p>
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</div>
<div id="divRpF893494" class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 12pt"><b class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">From:</span></b><span class="apple-converted-space"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class=""> </span></span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">General [<a style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline; COLOR: purple" href="mailto:general-bounces+john.williamson=glasgow.ac.uk@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank" class="">general-bounces+john.williamson=glasgow.ac.uk@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>]
on behalf of Andrew Meulenberg [<a style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline; COLOR: purple" href="mailto:mules333@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">mules333@gmail.com</a>]<br class=""><b class="">Sent:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Friday, March 06, 2015 7:19
AM<br class=""><b class="">To:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Nature of Light and
Particles - General Discussion; Andrew Meulenberg<br class=""><b class="">Cc:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>P.G.
Vaidya<br class=""><b class="">Subject:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [General] double-loop
electron model discussion</span></p></div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 12pt">Dear
Richard,</p></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 12pt">While
I agree with Martin, I think that we will need to discuss the issue
in person to iron out the pros & cons. I am presenting a paper
at the conference on the fields & potentials of an optical
standing wave. It will describe the differences between photonic
'charge' within the photon and point charges. I will probably be
using your paper as one of the several references that talk of
charge within a photon.</p></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 12pt">When
we all have had time to read each others' papers (hopefully before
gathering at the conference), then we will be better able to
understand our respective positions and integrate the information
into a coherent, self-consistent, mutually acceptable, whole. I
would like the actual presentations from the multiple sources to
present a complete picture, not the repetitive fragments with the
contradictions that presently exist..</p></div>
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class="">Andrew</div></div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""> </div></div>
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class="">On
Fri, Mar 6, 2015 at 12:14 PM, Richard Gauthier<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><<a style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline; COLOR: purple" href="mailto:richgauthier@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">richgauthier@gmail.com</a>><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>wrote:<br class=""><br class=""></div>
<blockquote style="BORDER-TOP-STYLE: none; BORDER-BOTTOM-STYLE: none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-RIGHT-STYLE: none; PADDING-LEFT: 6pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 4.8pt; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1pt solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in" type="cite" class="">
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class="">Hello
Martin,<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></div>
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class="">
Thank you for your thoughtful comments and questions. You are
right that any complete model of the electron would include the
origin of electric charge. No one currently understands the nature
and origin of electric charge—that’s why there are various models
of the electron. To say that electric charge originates with
electric fields that have a non-zero divergence is to imply that
we understand the origin of electromagnetic fields, which are
supposed to be generated by accelerated electric charges! A full
circle of deep ignorance as the the nature of either. It seems
clear to me that both electric charge and electromagnetic fields
originate from something more primary and more fundamental than
either. I call this more fundamental entity an energy quantum. It
generates both electric charge and electromagnetic fields, as well
as other physical properties of quantized particles. Its chief
characteristic is its energy which is proportional to its
frequency: E=hf. It takes on other properties such as the speed of
light, wavelength, momentum, spin, magnetic moment, flavor, color
charge etc depending on what physical particle such as the photon,
electron, gluon, quark etc that it expresses itself as. The energy
quantum expresses non-locally through the various particles that
it manifests as such as the photon or the electron.</div></div>
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class="">
So I don’t think that the electric charge has to be point-like. I
do think that the energy quantum, which is not inherently charged,
is likely to be point-like. It generates the electron which has
all the electron's enigmatic properties. I think that if the
energy quantum was better understood as a hypothetical fundamental
entity, the quantum properties of the so-called fundamental
particles would become less enigmatic. So the electron may be a
charged photon, but a photon is an energy quantum expressing as an
uncharged photon or as a charged photon (electron). In your and
John's model of the electron, electric charge must travel at less
than the speed of light, but in my model of the electron as a
charged photon, electric charge can travel at light speed and
perhaps faster. Neither of our models is proved to the extent that
either of them can claim factually that electric charge can or
cannot travel at the speed of light or even faster than light.
That’s for experiment to decide. But we can ask how our models can
lead to a deeper understanding of matter and energy.</div></div>
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class="">
with best regards,</div></div>
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class="">
Richard</div></div>
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<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></div>
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<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class="">On
Mar 4, 2015, at 8:01 AM, Mark, Martin van der <<a style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline; COLOR: purple" href="mailto:martin.van.der.mark@philips.com" target="_blank" class="">martin.van.der.mark@philips.com</a>>
wrote:</div></div>
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<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""> </div></div>
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<div class="">
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<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: calibri, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125)" class="">Oh
Richard, maybe the main thing is:</span></div></div>
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<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: calibri, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125)" class="">Why
put charge in your model to begin with? Wouldn’t it be nice to
have it as a consequence? The charge itself is the whole problem
to begin with…</span></div></div>
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<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: calibri, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125)" class="">The
motivation just puzzles me….</span></div></div>
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<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: calibri, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125)" class="">Cheers,
Martin</span></div></div>
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<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""> </div></div>
<div class="">
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Martin B. van der Mark</span></div></div>
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Scientist, Minimally Invasive Healthcare</span></div></div>
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Research Europe - Eindhoven</span></div></div>
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Tech Campus, Building 34 (WB2.025)</span></div></div>
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Holstlaan 4</span></div></div>
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+31 40 2747548</span></div></div></div>
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<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><b class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">From:</span></b><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">
General [<a style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline; COLOR: purple" href="mailto:general-bounces+martin.van.der.mark=philips.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank" class="">mailto:general-bounces+martin.van.der.mark=philips.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>]
<b class="">On Behalf Of </b>Mark, Martin van der<br class=""><b class="">Sent:</b>
woensdag 4 maart 2015 16:56<br class=""><b class="">To:</b> Nature of Light and
Particles - General Discussion<br class=""><b class="">Subject:</b> Re: [General]
double-loop electron model
discussion</span></div></div></div></div>
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""> </div></div>
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: calibri, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125)" class="">Hi
Richard, thank you,</span></div></div>
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: calibri, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125)" class="">Firstly,
There are 3 intimately related problems. With the self-energy
problem comes the 4/3 problem and that of the Poincare stresses.
See chapter 28 VOL II of the Feynman Lectures. Neither has to do
with the electron being a point. (go back and make sure
you read that previous sentence well) When the electron is taken
to be smaller than half the classical radius, it is already the
end of physics, because there is more energy in the
electric field outside than there is mass to begin with.
</span></div></div>
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: calibri, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125)" class="">Secondly,
a charged object whatever you call it and whatever its size
cannot go at light velocity. It may approach it, but not reach
it. Charge means a special configuration of field, of the sort
that has a non-zero divergence, field sticks out in all
directions. These things, really inescapably, MUST have a
so-called “rest” mass, if only from the point of view of what
radiation is about: the transverse part, and what virtual
photons, longitudinal polarization or near-field optics are
about: mass given by their decay length.</span></div></div>
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: calibri, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125)" class="">I
hope this is clear enough. “Charged photon” is a crippled name,
it suggest a contradiction that I believe (I can be quite wrong,
but now you know where it comes from) is also part of the whole
concept described and in my opinion cannot be married with
physics as it stands or with physics as it (perhaps) will appear
to be.</span></div></div>
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<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: calibri, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125)" class="">Very
best, Martin</span></div></div>
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<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""> </div></div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span lang="DE" style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, sans-serif; COLOR: navy" class="">Dr.
Martin B. van der Mark</span></div></div>
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<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, sans-serif; COLOR: navy" class="">Principal
Scientist, Minimally Invasive Healthcare</span></div></div>
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Research Europe - Eindhoven</span></div></div>
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, sans-serif; COLOR: navy" class="">High
Tech Campus, Building 34 (WB2.025)</span></div></div>
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Holstlaan 4</span></div></div>
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<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><b class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">From:</span></b><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">
General [<a style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline; COLOR: purple" href="mailto:general-bounces+martin.van.der.mark=philips.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank" class=""><span style="COLOR: purple" class="">mailto:general-bounces+martin.van.der.mark=philips.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</span></a>]
<b class="">On Behalf Of </b>Richard Gauthier<br class=""><b class="">Sent:</b> woensdag 4
maart 2015 16:19<br class=""><b class="">To:</b> Nature of Light and Particles -
General Discussion<br class=""><b class="">Subject:</b> Re: [General] double-loop
electron model discussion</span></div></div></div></div>
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""> </div></div>
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<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class="">Martin,</div></div>
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<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class="">
I agree. The electron’s quantum existence has a unity that must
be preserved in any electron model, although I would like to
hear why this must be in your opinion.</div></div></div>
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<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class="">
The charged photon model of the electron does not require that
the charge of the charged photon (i.e. the electron) is a point
charge. What we know about the electron is that when it is
detected it displays point-like behavior, so at that time the
charge as well as the location of the detected electron is
point-like (or at least confined within the particular region of
detection of the electron.) The same goes for a photon. We
cannot say that the photon is point-like when it is traveling
undetected through a double slit apparatus, which an electron
can do also. As the electron/charged photon goes through the
double slits, its charge goes through the double slits also, as
does its spin and magnetic moment (or at least the electron's
potential for re-expressing all of these properties when it is
later detected after passing wavelike through both slits.) The
photon is only point-like when it is detected. So the electron
and the photon are very similar in this respect, both showing
wave-particle duality. I’m claiming that this wave-particle
duality property (or Feynman's sum-over-histories property if
you don’t like wave-particle duality) of a photon and an
electron is essentially the same because the electron is a
charged photon and has the properties of a photon like
wave-particle duality, interference, diffraction, and
entanglement. But I also claim that the term “matter-waves” is
less meaningful for an electron if an electron is a charged
photon and is not really “matter” at all, unless an uncharged
photon is also “matter”. In this view, the term “matter” and
“material” are not really relevant to the physicist except as
various expressions of energy, if matter is really light or
other luminous objects like gluons of various frequencies,
conformations, and levels of confinement.</div></div></div>
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<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class="">
The charged photon model only requires that the charged photon
have the quantum and wave properties of the photon given by E=hf
, p=h/lambda and c=lambda f , which by the way are present in
your photon with toroidal topology as I understand it. The
charged photon carries the charge -e for an electron and +e for
the charged photon which is a positron. The light-speed of the
electron (which I call a charged photon) is currently unobserved
(as Dirac remarked) but this doesn’t mean that this light speed
is not part of the electron/charged photon model, since the
charged photon model of the electron generates the de Broglie
wavelength which IS observed and is based on a) a
helically circulating light-speed charged photon, b) the
increasing frequency of the light-speed charged photon with
increasing electron total energy, and c) the corresponding
decrease of wavelength of the light-speed charged photon with
increasing electron total energy. Since your toroidal electron
model has these photon properties, it will also generate the de
Broglie wavelength as does the charged photon model when your
electron model has a velocity in the direction perpendicular to
the plane of its helical axis. So your electron model will
generate the de Broglie wavelength in 2 ways — the way you
describe in your and John’s article and in this way as
well.</div></div></div>
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<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class="">
So I am not attached to the electron as charged photon model as
having a point-like electric charge just as I am not attached to
an uncharged photon model being point-like. The supposed
point-like charge of an electron as leading to unwanted
infinities has been a headache to physicists for a long time.
Perhaps a new approach is needed.</div></div></div>
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<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class="">
<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></div></div>
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<blockquote style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt; MARGIN-TOP: 5pt" type="cite" class="">
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<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class="">On
Mar 3, 2015, at 3:24 PM, Mark, Martin van der <<a style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline; COLOR: purple" href="mailto:martin.van.der.mark@philips.com" target="_blank" class=""><span style="COLOR: purple" class="">martin.van.der.mark@philips.com</span></a>>
wrote:</div></div></div>
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""> </div></div>
<div class=""><pre style="WORD-WRAP: break-word; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; WORD-SPACING: 0px; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">Hi Chip, clearly what John and I have written is too compact to give a full explanation and it should not have been a surprise to me that the subtleties do not always immediately sink in with the reader. </span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">Perhaps there will be time in at the conference to sit together and discuss the physics, like why, on firm experimental grounds, it absolutely imposible that the electron consists of two parts. It is a very puzzling one, and why the narrowest possible escape may be just, and only just, sufficient: that it is a single quantum of electromagnetic field with a non trivial topplogy. And why any extra property put in from the beginning will destroy the whole concept. Emerging properties should be: charge, spin, magnetic moment, de broglie wavelength, Pauli principle, etc. </span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">Really the only thing i do not have too much of a clue about is the mass scale...our model is at least not by itself capable of explaing it. This is one of the things a real theory should provide!</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">Cheers, Martin</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class=""> </span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">Verstuurd vanaf mijn iPhone</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class=""> </span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> Op 3 mrt. 2015 om 18:30 heeft "Chip Akins" <<a style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline; COLOR: purple" href="mailto:chipakins@gmail.com" target="_blank" class=""><span style="COLOR: purple" class="">chipakins@gmail.com</span></a>> het volgende geschreven:</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> </span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> Hi Martin</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> </span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> I have read your 1997 paper many times and continue to refer to it during research.</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> </span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> Rereading the Feynman Lectures II chapter 28 now.</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> </span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> I am fairly certain that my model, derived in part from yours, handles these issues similarly, but adds some specifics for the electron you may be interested in. If you have not read it please give it a look.</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> </span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> Chip</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> </span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> From: General [<a style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline; COLOR: purple" href="mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank" class=""><span style="COLOR: purple" class="">mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</span></a>] On Behalf Of Mark, Martin van der</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2015 11:23 AM</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> To: Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> Subject: Re: [General] double-loop electron model discussion</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> </span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> Hi Chip,</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> John and I have dealt with it in our model. However, we can only be sure if we can also develop a complete theory: a model is just and only a toy. A very important toy to guide our thinking and to help us taking all aspects on board.</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> In our 1997 paper, we dealt with just about everything, except for:</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> </span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> · The Pauli principle (interference at same Compton frequency)</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> </span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> · The weak interaction (linked field lines)</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> </span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> · The strong interaction (knotted flow)</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> Although after all these years I still feel that our model is very adequate, perhaps the most important of our 1997 paper is that it explains the problems related to certain properties of the electron.</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> So read the paper and you will know a lot more about the physics involved. And do read Chapter 28 VOL II of Feynman.</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> Good luck,</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> Martin</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> </span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> Dr. Martin B. van der Mark</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> Principal Scientist, Minimally Invasive Healthcare</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> </span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> Philips Research Europe - Eindhoven</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> High Tech Campus, Building 34 (WB2.025)</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> Prof. Holstlaan 4</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> 5656 AE Eindhoven, The Netherlands</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> Tel: +31 40 2747548</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> </span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> From: General [<a style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline; COLOR: purple" href="mailto:general-bounces+martin.van.der.mark=philips.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank" class=""><span style="COLOR: purple" class="">mailto:general-bounces+martin.van.der.mark=philips.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</span></a>] On Behalf Of Chip Akins</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> Sent: dinsdag 3 maart 2015 18:05</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> To: 'Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion'</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> Subject: Re: [General] double-loop electron model discussion</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> </span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> Hi Martin</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> </span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> Thank you for the comments.</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> </span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> In your opinion does the model you and John W. created for the electron (1997) satisfy this self-energy problem you mention?</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> </span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> I have read the Feynman lectures, but it has been a while, so time for a review.</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> </span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> Infinities are quite distasteful, and an electron has spin and a magnetic moment, so it can be argued that the electron cannot actually be a point, even if it does react at a single point.</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> </span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> Thoughts?</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> </span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> Chip</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> </span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> From: General [<a style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline; COLOR: purple" href="mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank" class=""><span style="COLOR: purple" class="">mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</span></a>] On Behalf Of Mark, Martin van der</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2015 10:40 AM</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> To: Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> Subject: Re: [General] double-loop electron model discussion</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> </span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> Hi Chip, Richard and Andrew,</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> </span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> 1) Ever read chapter 28 of Vol. II of the Feynman Lectures?</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> It is about the energy in the field of a charged object, like a football that has been rubbed against a cat (as physicists do).</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> That energy goes to infinity at smaller and smaller radius. This leads to the self-energy problem for a small particle. (The invention of charged photons doesn’t seem to do this any good)</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> </span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> 2) The interaction of an electron is point-like, it means that it consists of a single thing, not two massive parts bound by a force (because that would vibrate at some energy)</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> Any electron model must be able to make plausible why this is.</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> Some thinking to do for you perhaps…</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> Best, Martin</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> </span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> </span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> Dr. Martin B. van der Mark</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> Principal Scientist, Minimally Invasive Healthcare</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> </span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> Philips Research Europe - Eindhoven</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> High Tech Campus, Building 34 (WB2.025)</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> Prof. Holstlaan 4</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> 5656 AE Eindhoven, The Netherlands</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> Tel: +31 40 2747548</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> </span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> From: General [<a style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline; COLOR: purple" href="mailto:general-bounces+martin.van.der.mark=philips.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank" class=""><span style="COLOR: purple" class="">mailto:general-bounces+martin.van.der.mark=philips.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</span></a>] On Behalf Of Chip Akins</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> Sent: dinsdag 3 maart 2015 17:10</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> To: 'Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion'</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> Subject: Re: [General] double-loop electron model discussion</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> </span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> Hi Richard and Andrew</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> </span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> Andrew, I have been looking at the annihilation reaction of the electron and positron and considering that the result yields two photons of the energy 0.511MeV. Then assuming the electron and positron are each made of one photon.</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> So far, possibly due to my assumptions regarding the nature of a photon, I have not been able to logically justify splitting the positive and negative “portions’ of a single photon to create these two oppositely charged particles. To me the positive and negative portions of the photon are really made of the same thing, in that they are simply one field vector pointing toward the positive. The positive and negative ends being part of the same spacetime distortion.</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> </span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> I have attached an updated draft of the electron as a confined photon.</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> </span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> Chip</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> </span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> From: General [<a style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline; COLOR: purple" href="mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank" class=""><span style="COLOR: purple" class="">mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</span></a>] On Behalf Of Richard Gauthier</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2015 9:08 AM</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> To: Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> Subject: Re: [General] double-loop electron model discussion</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> </span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> Hi Andrew,</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> That’s a very interesting view that a wormhole connection between a created electron-positron pair could resolve the EPR paradox. I think that you would need to show that the same wormhole explanation would resolve the EPR paradox with other particles that are quantum mechanically entangled. You would also need to show that the appropriate quantum communication between two particles could pass between their connecting wormhole to keep them entangled.</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> There are other sub-quantum hypotheses I suppose about how a photon interacting with another photon or an atomic nucleus can create an electron pair. Have you studied them and eliminated them as possible contenders?</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> </span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> On Mar 2, 2015, at 7:59 AM, Andrew Meulenberg <<a style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline; COLOR: purple" href="mailto:mules333@gmail.com" target="_blank" class=""><span style="COLOR: purple" class="">mules333@gmail.com</span></a><<a style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline; COLOR: purple" href="mailto:mules333@gmail.com" target="_blank" class=""><span style="COLOR: purple" class="">mailto:mules333@gmail.com</span></a>>> wrote:</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> </span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> Dear Richard, Chip, et al.,</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> I thought for a long time about the electron as a self-bound photon, before I realized that I could only make progress when I considered the electron/positron pair as that photon. So, instead of a free photon (a soliton) we must consider 2 self-bound solitons, that can be separated. It was the paraphrased statement(s) from a molecular biologist (who read more physics than I did) that started me on the right path. "Mass and charge are only produced when (& as) the soliton pair are separated." This became the basis of a paper that AJP rejected in 9 minutes from its electronic receipt. However, with that identity of mass and charge in mind and with the recognition of total internal reflection (TIR) as a means of binding light in a "whispering-Gallery" mode, it became clear that the transverse electric field of a bound photon could be 'rectified' by the Goos–Hänchen or Imbert–Fedorov effect<<a style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline; COLOR: purple" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imbert%E2%80%93Fedorov_effect" target="_blank" class=""><span style="COLOR: purple" class="">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imbert%E2%80%93Fedorov_effect</span></a>> of a photon and give the net charge of an electron. This happens at a unique frequency and orbit size where the negative phase shift exactly equals the phase advance of the photon and the electric field can always point out. If the phase is not correct, then the distortion of space (which affects the refractive index of the path and thus the curvature of the photon) is not resonant. However, this difference in curvature, balanced against the phase shift gives a stable configuration.</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> </span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> That was the easy part. Nevertheless, I have not yet actually done the full calculations. Someone of the group, with more mathematical ability than I, could do so and coauthor my paper.</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> My present conjecture: What happens to the field confined inside the bound-photon 'orbit'? It is so greatly concentrated by the path curvature that it becomes 'singular' at the center. Nature 'abhors a singularity' even more than it abhors a vacuum! The extreme energy density distorts space and forms a 'connection' between the forming electron and positron. I believe that the distortion is a wormhole and the connection is thru time. Just as the external field lines of a bar magnet are 'closed' thru the bar, I believe that the electric field lines of an electron/positron (the lepton) pair in space, also form and are closed thru time via the wormhole. The lepton pair remains connected (entangled) by this internal structure until the wormhole 'distributes' among all of the neighboring charges. [I don't believe that the wormhole collapses until a pair annihilates.] Since time does not exist within a wormhole, this resolves the EPR paradox.</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> In response to Richard's intent "I would like to start a thread that focuses on comparing and contrasting the various double-loop electron models ... to find any common areas of agreement, and any points of difference."</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> My original double-loop model assumed that every wavelength is divided in 1/2 and then recombined (nearly superposed). It required a different type of phase shift than normally assumed and was nicely represented by the mobius strip with a 1/2 twist per 1/2 cycle (a full rotation for every wavelength).</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> My present concept, using the Goos–Hänchen or Imbert–Fedorov effect, does not require a relationship between a 'twist' and the photon wavelength, since the path curvature provides the necessary phase shift to keep the fields constant. These options must still be confirmed.</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> Thus, I have two models with different mobius twist factors. One with a 1/2 twist per 1/2 cycle, and one with no twist at all. I believe that both models would allow the electron to be the lowest level and this structure could have higher levels such as the muon. (However, I don't think that they can be considered excited states.)</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> Andrew</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> _____________________________</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> </span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> On Sun, Mar 1, 2015 at 8:41 PM, Chip Akins <<a style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline; COLOR: purple" href="mailto:chipakins@gmail.com" target="_blank" class=""><span style="COLOR: purple" class="">chipakins@gmail.com</span></a><<a style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline; COLOR: purple" href="mailto:chipakins@gmail.com" target="_blank" class=""><span style="COLOR: purple" class="">mailto:chipakins@gmail.com</span></a>>> wrote:</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> Hi Richard</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> </span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> One of the items which intrigued me while studying electron models, was the notion that charge was topologically generated by the spin of the electron. We only find charge in spin 1/2 particles. Looking at U(1) and SU(2) and the Yang-Mills "phase force" idea, led me to be even more convinced.</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> </span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> As it turns out, it seems the photon is capable of generating charge topologically, when confined. Of course the simplest method to express that confinement is a monochromatic circular plane wave, certain toroidal models may also work, as long as the negative end of the E field is exposed to the outside.</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> </span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> Another attraction in starting with the plane circular model, is the relative ease of analyzing wave interference. It happens that wave interference is very important, because the result is that the effective electrical and magnetic radius is then slightly larger than the transport radius, providing the exact values for the magnetic moment (with anomaly), and the exact electric charge. Wave interference occurs near the center of the model, making the E field less efficient near the center, and thereby shifting the effective E field radius, and therefore the effective magnetic radius, outwards, while not affecting the transport radius.</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> </span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> With these values (magnetic moment and charge) defined so accurately in the model, it is still a little puzzling that my models wave interference predicts a value for the fine structure, internal to the electron, of 0.007285993718303 when the actual value (CODATA) is 0.0072973525698. The difference is 0.1557% but I still feel it is significant, and want to know why the difference is there. Maybe I am calculating the interference incorrectly or incompletely. Or maybe there is another contribution to the fine structure which I have missed. While writing this I may have discovered where my error is. I kept telling myself that the fields actually extend far beyond the effective RMS radius but falling off in intensity, and I accounted for that in part of the wave interference calculations, but not all of the interference was calculated, because I failed to see its tiny contribution before now.</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> </span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> Another aspect of my model which is unique and not incorporated in any other model we have seen is the relative phase of the electrical and magnetic components of the wave. This aspect becomes important when understanding how the photon is confined.</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> The electron exhibits many clues to its nature. From this model we can calculate the exact known value for the Quantum Hall effect, by simply running some standard electrical engineering formula using the "voltage", "current", and frequency. This indicates also that an electrical engineering analysis may provide other valuable information. Using a similar approach we can understand that the electron will display a particular phase relationship between E and M components. In a simple EM resonant system the E and M components are shifted 90 degrees at resonance. If we start with a 90 degree phase shift and look at the double loop configuration of the wave we see an apparent 180 degree phase shift in the confined E and M components, placing them on opposite sides of the electron radius at any given instant. Then it is much easier to see that with the E and M fields on opposite sides, and the attraction between these fields, the issue of photon confinement is simplified somewhat.</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> </span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> We still have a ways to go, getting answers to many of the remaining questions. But so far it seems like the group has uncovered some important new understanding which may lead us to a clearer, causal, view of physics, and provide a new basis which can describe experiment more fully and accurately.</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> </span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> Chip</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> </span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> -----Original Message-----</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> From: General [mailto:<a style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline; COLOR: purple" href="mailto:general-bounces%2Bchipakins" target="_blank" class="">general-bounces+chipakins</a><<a style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline; COLOR: purple" href="mailto:general-bounces%2Bchipakins" target="_blank" class=""><span style="COLOR: purple" class="">mailto:general-bounces%2Bchipakins</span></a>>=<a style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline; COLOR: purple" href="mailto:gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank" class=""><span style="COLOR: purple" class="">gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</span></a><<a style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline; COLOR: purple" href="mailto:gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank" class=""><span style="COLOR: purple" class="">mailto:gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</span></a>>] On Behalf Of Richard Gauthier</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2015 11:47 PM</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> To: Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> Subject: Re: [General] double-loop electron model discussion</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> </span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> Hi Chip,</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> </span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> Thank you for your thoughtful as well as personal history comments about your interest in modeling the electron. My own interest in the structure and composition of the electron dates back to the late 1980’s. My spiritual guru gave some new ideas in 1986 about how matter might be formed by a kind of life principle transmitted through subtle vibrating life-energy entities that have both a mental and a physical portion. That idea intrigued me and soon I tried to apply the idea to make a model of a photon as being composed of millions of these oscillating life-particles. I had mainly my intuition to guide me. My photon model soon contained a single circulating energy entity (a superluminal energy quantum) traveling helically at a 45 degree angle with the speed c sqrt(2) and a total momentum along a helical trajectory of (h/lambda) sqrt(2). The energy quantum's helical radius is the photon’s wavelength lambda divided by 2 pi. This result came out of the requirement that the photon model should have its experimental value of spin hbar (or minus hbar) generated by the transverse component of the superluminal energy quantum's total momentum along its helical trajectory, while having the transluminal energy quantum’s longitudinal component of momentum be the photon's linear momentum p=h/lambda.</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> </span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> I then modeled the electron as a closed charged photon-like object. I knew very little about the Dirac equation except its prediction of antimatter and that the electron has a 4pi rotational symmetry. I also found that a single closed-loop of one wavelength of a photon (the Compton wavelength h/mc) with the electron’s rest energy mc^2 yields a spin of 1 hbar — twice the value of the electron’s spin. It hit me that making a double-loop of a single wavelength photon produces an electron model with a spin of 1/2 hbar.</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> </span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> While making my electron model I realized that it should also have the electron’s magnetic moment M — approximately the magnitude of the Bohr magneton (e hbar)/2m. I set the electron model to have the Bohr magneton for its magnetic moment by adjusting the radius of the closed helical path of the helically moving charged superluminal energy quantum so that its helically circulating charge generates the Dirac equation electron's Bohr magneton for the electron model. (Choosing a slightly larger helical radius generates the electron’s exact experimental value of magnetic moment which is a little larger than the Bohr magneton’s magnitude.)</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> </span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> Later I started analyzing other people’s cyclical models of the electron more closely. I found that Dirac had claimed that electrons actually move at the speed of light, but that only a sub-luminal speed can be observed. I found two analyses of the Dirac equation that suggested that the path of a moving electron’s charge can be described as light-speed along an open helix. This gave me the idea to fit my model of the circulating charged photon for a resting electron to this light-speed helical approach. I realized that the circulating photon in the electron model would have an increased frequency f corresponding to its increased total energy gamma mc^2 when the electron moves forward, and that the corresponding wavelength of this circulating charged photon would decrease with this increasing frequency, in order to keep the speed of light of the circulating charged photon constant. The radius of the charged photon’s helix was found to decrease with increasing electron velocity by the factor gamma^2 in order for the photon’s wavelength to decrease as described as the frequency of the charged photon increases with increasing electron speed and total energy. All the math worked out nicely, including the generation of the electron’s spin 1/2 hbar for a slow moving electron from the tangential component mc of the charged photon’s total momentum gamma mc along its helical axis, multiplied by the radius hbar/2mc of the charged photon’s helical axis for a slow moving electron. And I realized that any speed-of-light double-looping photon model for an electron should also follow a corresponding helical path whose radius decreases in the same way with the electron’s increase speed. This is because the result only depends on the relations E=hf, p=h/lambda , and c= lambda f , the basic quantum energy and momentum equations for a photon and the equation for wave motion with speed c.</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> </span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> Although I knew that any acceptable electron model would have to generate the relativistic de Broglie wavelength Ldb = h/(gamma mv) , I was quite surprised that this result falls out so easily from the circulating charged photon model of a moving electron, where the longitudinal component of the circulating charged photon’s wave vector k yields the wave number that corresponds to the relativistic de Broglie wavelength. Furthermore, this simple result for the origin of the electron’s de Broglie wavelength suggests that the quantum wave functions for a moving electron, which depend heavily on the electron's de Broglie wavelength, are produced mathematically from the waves generated by the circulating charged photon that models the electron.</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> </span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> Richard</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> </span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">>> On Feb 28, 2015, at 6:47 AM, Chip Akins <<a style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline; COLOR: purple" href="mailto:chipakins@gmail.com" target="_blank" class=""><span style="COLOR: purple" class="">chipakins@gmail.com</span></a><<a style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline; COLOR: purple" href="mailto:chipakins@gmail.com" target="_blank" class=""><span style="COLOR: purple" class="">mailto:chipakins@gmail.com</span></a>>> wrote:</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">>> </span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">>> Hi Richard and ALL</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">>> </span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">>> You asked for a comparison of electron models.</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">>> </span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">>> Since 1986, while having lunch with a mathematician, Eric Peterson, I have felt that the electron was made up of EM waves, or a photon.</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">>> </span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">>> Several of us have come to the same conclusion.</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">>> </span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">>> When I saw your model from 2005 many things started to make sense. That is why I was so excited and interested to fully pursue the math to try to deeply understand your TEQ model. It was quite informative and inspiring to see your work.</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">>> </span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">>> Since that time, principally due to an Occam's razor argument, I have returned to the view that TEQ's are not required to model the electron. While I still feel that it may be possible that TEQ's exist, I do not find, in my view, that it is required for the modeling of the photon and electron.</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">>> </span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">>> When I later saw John W and Martin's work from 1997 I was again very interested, principally because they were saying the same thing I was thinking, in general.</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">>> </span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">>> While running the math and testing the model from John W and Martin, it occurred to me that we had to have some sort of photon model to build the electron from. So I produced the simplest model I could imagine which would fulfill what I felt then was the basic criteria. My view of the basic criteria has since changed due to this collaboration, so I am working now to update my electron model. However it seems most of the electron model remains intact.</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">>> </span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">>> The fundamental differences between my model and John W. and Martin's model are as follows:</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">>> </span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">>> I found that wave interference may be precisely the cause for the exact value of the magnetic moment anomaly, and the cause for the exact value for the elementary charge.</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">>> </span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">>> That wave interference, incidentally, produces a new view of the fine structure constant in the electron.</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">>> </span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">>> My motivation, in part, to do this work, was because we have to provide an electron model which is simple in comparison, and competes with current theory and models in accuracy, before such a model will be considered a viable alternative.</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">>> </span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">>> My model currently falls short of some of the goals that I feel we will need, in order for our work to be considered noteworthy and to be eventually accepted.</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">>> </span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">>> My model also demonstrates the cause for inertial mass, but I think John W. and Martin's model may illustrate the same property. And in fact, all confined photon models may show the same attribute of inertial mass.</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">>> </span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">>> There are implications of the work we are doing which we also need to discuss. If Matter is made from light, when you think about its implications on relativity, leads to the existence of a preferred reference rest frame in space, leading us toward Chandra's view and CTF.</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">>> </span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">>> Working with all of you is both enlightening and inspiring.</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">>> </span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">>> Chip</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">>> </span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">>> </span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">>> </span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">>> </span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">>> -----Original Message-----</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">>> From: General</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">>> [mailto:<a style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline; COLOR: purple" href="mailto:general-bounces%2Bchipakins" target="_blank" class="">general-bounces+chipakins</a><<a style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline; COLOR: purple" href="mailto:general-bounces%2Bchipakins" target="_blank" class=""><span style="COLOR: purple" class="">mailto:general-bounces%2Bchipakins</span></a>>=<a style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline; COLOR: purple" href="mailto:gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandpart" target="_blank" class=""><span style="COLOR: purple" class="">gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandpart</span></a><<a style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline; COLOR: purple" href="mailto:gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandpart" target="_blank" class=""><span style="COLOR: purple" class="">mailto:gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandpart</span></a>></span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">>> <a style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline; COLOR: purple" href="http://icles.org/" target="_blank" class=""><span style="COLOR: purple" class="">icles.org</span></a><<a style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline; COLOR: purple" href="http://icles.org/" target="_blank" class=""><span style="COLOR: purple" class="">http://icles.org/</span></a>>] On Behalf Of Richard Gauthier</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">>> Sent: Friday, February 27, 2015 11:10 PM</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">>> To: Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">>> Subject: [General] double-loop electron model discussion</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">>> </span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">>> I would like to start a thread that focuses on comparing and contrasting the various double-loop electron models, mainly John and Martin’s (J/M's), Chip’s, Vivian's and mine, and any others that people may know of, to find any common areas of agreement, and any points of difference. I think we are all agreed that the resting electron in our various models has spin 1/2 hbar. Chip’s model is based on J/M's model. I’d like to ask Chip, if I might, what commonalities and differences exist between J/M’s electron model and Chip's electron model. We can go on from there, if that’s agreeable.</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">>> Richard</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">>> _______________________________________________</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">>> If you no longer wish to receive communication from the Nature of</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">>> Light and Particles General Discussion List at <a style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline; COLOR: purple" href="mailto:chipakins@gmail.com" target="_blank" class=""><span style="COLOR: purple" class="">chipakins@gmail.com</span></a><<a style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline; COLOR: purple" href="mailto:chipakins@gmail.com" target="_blank" class=""><span style="COLOR: purple" class="">mailto:chipakins@gmail.com</span></a>> <a</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">>> href="<a style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline; COLOR: purple" href="http://lists.natureoflightandparticles.org/options.cgi/general-n" target="_blank" class=""><span style="COLOR: purple" class="">http://lists.natureoflightandparticles.org/options.cgi/general-n</span></a></span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">>> <a style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline; COLOR: purple" href="http://atureoflightandparticles.org/chipakins%40gmail.com?unsub=1&unsubconfir" target="_blank" class=""><span style="COLOR: purple" class="">atureoflightandparticles.org/chipakins%40gmail.com?unsub=1&unsubconfir</span></a><<a style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline; 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FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">>> If you no longer wish to receive communication from the Nature of</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">>> Light and Particles General Discussion List at <a style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline; COLOR: purple" href="mailto:richgauthier@gmail.com" target="_blank" class=""><span style="COLOR: purple" class="">richgauthier@gmail.com</span></a><<a style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline; COLOR: purple" href="mailto:richgauthier@gmail.com" target="_blank" class=""><span style="COLOR: purple" class="">mailto:richgauthier@gmail.com</span></a>></span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">>> <a</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">>> href="<a style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline; 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FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> _______________________________________________</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> If you no longer wish to receive communication from the Nature of Light and Particles General Discussion List at <a style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline; COLOR: purple" href="mailto:richgauthier@gmail.com" target="_blank" class=""><span style="COLOR: purple" class="">richgauthier@gmail.com</span></a><<a style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline; COLOR: purple" href="mailto:richgauthier@gmail.com" target="_blank" class=""><span style="COLOR: purple" class="">mailto:richgauthier@gmail.com</span></a>></span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> <a href="<a style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline; 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FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> ________________________________</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> The information contained in this message may be confidential and legally protected under applicable law. The message is intended solely for the addressee(s). If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, forwarding, dissemination, or reproduction of this message is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by return e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message.</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> <The Electron as a Confined Photon CA.pdf></span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> _______________________________________________</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> If you no longer wish to receive communication from the Nature of Light and Particles General Discussion List at <a style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline; COLOR: purple" href="mailto:martin.van.der.mark@philips.com" target="_blank" class=""><span style="COLOR: purple" class="">martin.van.der.mark@philips.com</span></a></span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> <a href="<a style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline; COLOR: purple" href="http://lists.natureoflightandparticles.org/options.cgi/general-natureoflightandparticles.org/martin.van.der.mark%40philips.com?unsub=1&unsubconfirm=1" target="_blank" class=""><span style="COLOR: purple" class="">http://lists.natureoflightandparticles.org/options.cgi/general-natureoflightandparticles.org/martin.van.der.mark%40philips.com?unsub=1&unsubconfirm=1</span></a>"></span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> Click here to unsubscribe</span></pre><pre style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">> </a></span></pre>
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<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class="">Hi
Martin</div></div></div>
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<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class="">I
have read your 1997 paper many times and continue to refer to
it during research.</div></div></div>
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<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class="">Rereading
the Feynman Lectures II chapter 28 now.</div></div></div>
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""> </div></div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class="">I
am fairly certain that my model, derived in part from yours,
handles these issues similarly, but adds some specifics for
the electron you may be interested in. If you have not read it
please give it a look.</div></div></div>
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""> </div></div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class="">Chip</div></div></div>
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""> </div></div>
<div class="">
<div style="BORDER-TOP: rgb(225,225,225) 1pt solid; BORDER-BOTTOM-STYLE: none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-TOP: 3pt; BORDER-RIGHT-STYLE: none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; BORDER-LEFT-STYLE: none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in" class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><b class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: calibri, sans-serif" class="">From:</span></b><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: calibri, sans-serif" class="">
General [<a style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline; COLOR: purple" href="mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank" class=""><span style="COLOR: purple" class="">mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</span></a>]
<b class="">On Behalf Of </b>Mark, Martin van der<br class=""><b class="">Sent:</b>
Tuesday, March 03, 2015 11:23 AM<br class=""><b class="">To:</b> Nature of Light
and Particles - General Discussion<br class=""><b class="">Subject:</b> Re:
[General] double-loop electron model
discussion</span></div></div></div></div></div>
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""> </div></div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: calibri, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125)" class="">Hi
Chip,</span></div></div></div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: calibri, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125)" class="">John
and I have dealt with it in our model. However, we can only be
sure if we can also develop a complete theory: a model is just
and only a toy. A very important toy to guide our thinking and
to help us taking all aspects on
board.</span></div></div></div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: calibri, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125)" class="">In
our 1997 paper, we dealt with just about everything, except
for:</span></div></div></div>
<div style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in" class="">
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: symbol; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125)" class="">·</span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 7pt; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125)" class="">
<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span> </span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: calibri, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125)" class="">The
Pauli principle (interference at same Compton
frequency)</span></div></div></div>
<div style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in" class="">
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: symbol; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125)" class="">·</span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 7pt; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125)" class="">
<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span> </span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: calibri, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125)" class="">The
weak interaction (linked field lines)</span></div></div></div>
<div style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in" class="">
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: symbol; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125)" class="">·</span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 7pt; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125)" class="">
<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span> </span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: calibri, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125)" class="">The
strong interaction (knotted flow)</span></div></div></div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: calibri, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125)" class="">Although
after all these years I still feel that our model is very
adequate, perhaps the most important of our 1997 paper is that
it explains the problems related to certain properties of the
electron.</span></div></div></div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: calibri, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125)" class="">So
read the paper and you will know a lot more about the physics
involved. And do read Chapter 28 VOL II of
Feynman.</span></div></div></div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: calibri, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125)" class="">Good
luck,</span></div></div></div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: calibri, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125)" class="">Martin</span></div></div></div>
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""> </div></div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span lang="DE" style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, sans-serif; COLOR: navy" class="">Dr.
Martin B. van der Mark</span></div></div></div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, sans-serif; COLOR: navy" class="">Principal
Scientist, Minimally Invasive
Healthcare</span></div></div></div>
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""> </div></div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, sans-serif; COLOR: navy" class="">Philips
Research Europe - Eindhoven</span></div></div></div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, sans-serif; COLOR: navy" class="">High
Tech Campus, Building 34 (WB2.025)</span></div></div></div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, sans-serif; COLOR: navy" class="">Prof.
Holstlaan 4</span></div></div></div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, sans-serif; COLOR: navy" class="">5656
AE Eindhoven, The Netherlands</span></div></div></div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, sans-serif; COLOR: navy" class="">Tel:
+31 40 2747548</span></div></div></div></div>
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""> </div></div>
<div class="">
<div style="BORDER-TOP: rgb(181,196,223) 1pt solid; BORDER-BOTTOM-STYLE: none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-TOP: 3pt; BORDER-RIGHT-STYLE: none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; BORDER-LEFT-STYLE: none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in" class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><b class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">From:</span></b><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">
General [<a style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline; COLOR: purple" href="mailto:general-bounces+martin.van.der.mark=philips.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank" class=""><span style="COLOR: purple" class="">mailto:general-bounces+martin.van.der.mark=philips.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</span></a>]
<b class="">On Behalf Of </b>Chip Akins<br class=""><b class="">Sent:</b> dinsdag 3 maart
2015 18:05<br class=""><b class="">To:</b> 'Nature of Light and Particles -
General Discussion'<br class=""><b class="">Subject:</b> Re: [General]
double-loop electron model
discussion</span></div></div></div></div></div>
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""> </div></div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class="">Hi
Martin</div></div></div>
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""> </div></div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class="">Thank
you for the comments.</div></div></div>
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""> </div></div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class="">In
your opinion does the model you and John W. created for the
electron (1997) satisfy this self-energy problem you
mention?</div></div></div>
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""> </div></div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class="">I
have read the Feynman lectures, but it has been a while, so
time for a review.</div></div></div>
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""> </div></div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class="">Infinities
are quite distasteful, and an electron has spin and a magnetic
moment, so it can be argued that the electron cannot actually
be a point, even if it does react at a single
point.</div></div></div>
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""> </div></div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class="">Thoughts?</div></div></div>
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""> </div></div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class="">Chip</div></div></div>
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""> </div></div>
<div class="">
<div style="BORDER-TOP: rgb(225,225,225) 1pt solid; BORDER-BOTTOM-STYLE: none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-TOP: 3pt; BORDER-RIGHT-STYLE: none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; BORDER-LEFT-STYLE: none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in" class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><b class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: calibri, sans-serif" class="">From:</span></b><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: calibri, sans-serif" class="">
General [<a style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline; COLOR: purple" href="mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank" class=""><span style="COLOR: purple" class="">mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</span></a>]
<b class="">On Behalf Of </b>Mark, Martin van der<br class=""><b class="">Sent:</b>
Tuesday, March 03, 2015 10:40 AM<br class=""><b class="">To:</b> Nature of Light
and Particles - General Discussion<br class=""><b class="">Subject:</b> Re:
[General] double-loop electron model
discussion</span></div></div></div></div></div>
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""> </div></div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: calibri, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125)" class="">Hi
Chip, Richard and Andrew,</span></div></div></div>
<div style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in" class="">
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: calibri, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125)" class="">1)</span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 7pt; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125)" class="">
<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span> </span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: calibri, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125)" class="">Ever
read chapter 28 of Vol. II of the Feynman
Lectures?</span></div></div></div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; TEXT-INDENT: 0.5in" class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: calibri, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125)" class="">It
is about the energy in the field of a charged object, like a
football that has been rubbed against a cat (as physicists
do).</span></div></div></div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; TEXT-INDENT: 0.5in" class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: calibri, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125)" class="">That
energy goes to infinity at smaller and smaller radius. This
leads to the self-energy problem for a small particle. (The
invention of charged photons doesn’t seem to do this any
good)</span></div></div></div>
<div style="MARGIN-LEFT: 0.5in" class="">
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: calibri, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125)" class="">2)</span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 7pt; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125)" class="">
<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span> </span><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: calibri, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125)" class="">The
interaction of an electron is point-like, it means that it
consists of a single thing, not two massive parts bound by a
force (because that would vibrate at some
energy)</span></div></div></div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: calibri, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125)" class="">Any
electron model must be able to make plausible why this
is.</span></div></div></div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: calibri, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125)" class="">Some
thinking to do for you perhaps…</span></div></div></div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: calibri, sans-serif; COLOR: rgb(31,73,125)" class="">Best,
Martin</span></div></div></div>
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""> </div></div>
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""> </div></div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span lang="DE" style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, sans-serif; COLOR: navy" class="">Dr.
Martin B. van der Mark</span></div></div></div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, sans-serif; COLOR: navy" class="">Principal
Scientist, Minimally Invasive
Healthcare</span></div></div></div>
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""> </div></div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, sans-serif; COLOR: navy" class="">Philips
Research Europe - Eindhoven</span></div></div></div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, sans-serif; COLOR: navy" class="">High
Tech Campus, Building 34 (WB2.025)</span></div></div></div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, sans-serif; COLOR: navy" class="">Prof.
Holstlaan 4</span></div></div></div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, sans-serif; COLOR: navy" class="">5656
AE Eindhoven, The Netherlands</span></div></div></div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: arial, sans-serif; COLOR: navy" class="">Tel:
+31 40 2747548</span></div></div></div></div>
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""> </div></div>
<div class="">
<div style="BORDER-TOP: rgb(181,196,223) 1pt solid; BORDER-BOTTOM-STYLE: none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-TOP: 3pt; BORDER-RIGHT-STYLE: none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; BORDER-LEFT-STYLE: none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in" class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><b class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">From:</span></b><span style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: tahoma, sans-serif" class="">
General [<a style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline; COLOR: purple" href="mailto:general-bounces+martin.van.der.mark=philips.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank" class=""><span style="COLOR: purple" class="">mailto:general-bounces+martin.van.der.mark=philips.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</span></a>]
<b class="">On Behalf Of </b>Chip Akins<br class=""><b class="">Sent:</b> dinsdag 3 maart
2015 17:10<br class=""><b class="">To:</b> 'Nature of Light and Particles -
General Discussion'<br class=""><b class="">Subject:</b> Re: [General]
double-loop electron model
discussion</span></div></div></div></div></div>
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""> </div></div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class="">Hi
Richard and Andrew</div></div></div>
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""> </div></div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class="">Andrew,
I have been looking at the annihilation reaction of the
electron and positron and considering that the result yields
two photons of the energy 0.511MeV. Then assuming the electron
and positron are each made of one photon.</div></div></div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class="">So
far, possibly due to my assumptions regarding the nature of a
photon, I have not been able to logically justify splitting
the positive and negative “portions’ of a single photon to
create these two oppositely charged particles. To me the
positive and negative portions of the photon are really made
of the same thing, in that they are simply one field vector
pointing toward the positive. The positive and negative ends
being part of the same spacetime distortion.</div></div></div>
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""> </div></div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class="">I
have attached an updated draft of <u class="">the electron as a
confined photon</u>.</div></div></div>
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""> </div></div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class="">Chip</div></div></div>
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""> </div></div>
<div class="">
<div style="BORDER-TOP: rgb(225,225,225) 1pt solid; BORDER-BOTTOM-STYLE: none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-TOP: 3pt; BORDER-RIGHT-STYLE: none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; BORDER-LEFT-STYLE: none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in" class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><b class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: calibri, sans-serif" class="">From:</span></b><span style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: calibri, sans-serif" class="">
General [<a style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline; COLOR: purple" href="mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank" class=""><span style="COLOR: purple" class="">mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</span></a>]
<b class="">On Behalf Of </b>Richard Gauthier<br class=""><b class="">Sent:</b> Tuesday,
March 03, 2015 9:08 AM<br class=""><b class="">To:</b> Nature of Light and
Particles - General Discussion<br class=""><b class="">Subject:</b> Re:
[General] double-loop electron model
discussion</span></div></div></div></div></div>
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""> </div></div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class="">Hi
Andrew,</div></div></div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class="">
That’s a very interesting view that a wormhole connection
between a created electron-positron pair could resolve the EPR
paradox. I think that you would need to show that the same
wormhole explanation would resolve the EPR paradox with other
particles that are quantum mechanically entangled. You would
also need to show that the appropriate quantum communication
between two particles could pass between their connecting
wormhole to keep them entangled.</div></div></div></div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class="">
There are other sub-quantum hypotheses I suppose about how a
photon interacting with another photon or an atomic nucleus
can create an electron pair. Have you studied them and
eliminated them as possible
contenders?</div></div></div></div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""> </div></div>
<div class="">
<blockquote style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt; MARGIN-TOP: 5pt" type="cite" class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class="">On
Mar 2, 2015, at 7:59 AM, Andrew Meulenberg <<a style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline; COLOR: purple" href="mailto:mules333@gmail.com" target="_blank" class=""><span style="COLOR: purple" class="">mules333@gmail.com</span></a>>
wrote:</div></div></div></div>
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""> </div></div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 12pt"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: helvetica, sans-serif" class="">Dear
Richard, Chip, et al.,</span></p></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 12pt"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: helvetica, sans-serif" class="">I
thought for a long time about the electron as a self-bound
photon, before I realized that I could only make progress
when I considered the electron/positron pair as that photon.
So, instead of a free photon (a soliton) we must consider 2
self-bound solitons, that can be separated. It was the
paraphrased statement(s) from a molecular biologist (who
read more physics than I did) that started me on the right
path. "Mass and charge are only produced when (& as) the
soliton pair are separated." This became the basis of a
paper that AJP rejected in 9 minutes from its electronic
receipt. However, with that identity of mass and charge in
mind and with the recognition of total internal reflection
(TIR) as a means of binding light in a "whispering-Gallery"
mode, it became clear that the transverse electric field of
a bound photon could be 'rectified' by the Goos–Hänchen or
<a title="Imbert–Fedorov effect" style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline; COLOR: purple" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imbert%E2%80%93Fedorov_effect" target="_blank" class=""><span style="COLOR: purple" class="">Imbert–Fedorov
effect</span></a> of a photon and give the net charge of an
electron. This happens at a unique frequency and orbit size
where the negative phase shift exactly equals the phase
advance of the photon and the electric field can always
point out. If the phase is not correct, then the distortion
of space (which affects the refractive index of the path and
thus the curvature of the photon) is not resonant. However,
this difference in curvature, balanced against the phase
shift gives a stable configuration.<br class=""><br class="">That was the easy
part. Nevertheless, I have not yet actually done the full
calculations. Someone of the group, with more mathematical
ability than I, could do so and coauthor my
paper.</span></p></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 12pt"><b class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: helvetica, sans-serif" class="">My
present conjecture</span></b><span style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: helvetica, sans-serif" class="">:
What happens to the field confined inside the bound-photon
'orbit'? It is so greatly concentrated by the path curvature
that it becomes 'singular' at the center. Nature 'abhors a
singularity' even more than it abhors a vacuum! The extreme
energy density distorts space and forms a 'connection'
between the forming electron and positron. I believe that
the distortion is a wormhole and the connection is thru
time. Just as the external field lines of a bar magnet are
'closed' thru the bar, I believe that the electric field
lines of an electron/positron (the lepton) pair in space,
also form and are closed thru time via the wormhole. The
lepton pair remains connected (entangled) by this internal
structure until the wormhole 'distributes' among all of the
neighboring charges. [I don't believe that the wormhole
collapses until a pair annihilates.] Since time does not
exist within a wormhole, this resolves the EPR
paradox.</span></p></div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><b class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: helvetica, sans-serif" class="">In
response to Richard's intent <i class="">"I would like to start a
thread that focuses on comparing and contrasting the various
double-loop electron models ... to find any common areas of
agreement, and any points of
difference."</i></span></b></div></div></div>
<div class="">
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 12pt"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: helvetica, sans-serif" class="">My
original double-loop model assumed that every wavelength is
divided in 1/2 and then recombined (nearly superposed). It
required a different type of phase shift than normally
assumed and was nicely represented by the mobius strip with
a 1/2 twist per 1/2 cycle (a full rotation for every
wavelength).</span></p></div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 12pt"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: helvetica, sans-serif" class="">My
present concept, using the Goos–Hänchen or Imbert–Fedorov
effect, does not require a relationship between a 'twist'
and the photon wavelength, since the path curvature provides
the necessary phase shift to keep the fields constant. These
options must still be confirmed.</span></p></div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 12pt"><span style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: helvetica, sans-serif" class="">Thus,
I have two models with different mobius twist factors. One
with a 1/2 twist per 1/2 cycle, and one with no twist at
all. I believe that both models would allow the electron to
be the lowest level and this structure could have higher
levels such as the muon. (However, I don't think that they
can be considered excited states.)</span></p></div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: helvetica, sans-serif" class="">Andrew<br class="">_____________________________</span></div></div></div></div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""> </div></div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: helvetica, sans-serif" class="">On
Sun, Mar 1, 2015 at 8:41 PM, Chip Akins <<a style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline; COLOR: purple" href="mailto:chipakins@gmail.com" target="_blank" class=""><span style="COLOR: purple" class="">chipakins@gmail.com</span></a>>
wrote:</span></div></div></div>
<blockquote style="BORDER-TOP-STYLE: none; BORDER-BOTTOM-STYLE: none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-RIGHT-STYLE: none; PADDING-LEFT: 6pt; MARGIN: 5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt; BORDER-LEFT: rgb(204,204,204) 1pt solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in" type="cite" class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: helvetica, sans-serif" class="">Hi
Richard<br class=""><br class="">One of the items which intrigued me while
studying electron models, was the notion that charge was
topologically generated by the spin of the electron.
We only find charge in spin 1/2 particles. Looking at U(1)
and SU(2) and the Yang-Mills "phase force" idea, led me to
be even more convinced.<br class=""><br class="">As it turns out, it seems
the photon is capable of generating charge topologically,
when confined. Of course the simplest method to express
that confinement is a monochromatic circular plane wave,
certain toroidal models may also work, as long as the
negative end of the E field is exposed to the
outside.<br class=""><br class="">Another attraction in starting with the
plane circular model, is the relative ease of analyzing
wave interference. It happens that wave interference
is very important, because the result is that the
effective electrical and magnetic radius is then slightly
larger than the transport radius, providing the exact
values for the magnetic moment (with anomaly), and the
exact electric charge. Wave interference occurs near
the center of the model, making the E field less efficient
near the center, and thereby shifting the effective E
field radius, and therefore the effective magnetic radius,
outwards, while not affecting the transport
radius.<br class=""><br class="">With these values (magnetic moment and
charge) defined so accurately in the model, it is still a
little puzzling that my models wave interference predicts
a value for the fine structure, internal to the electron,
of 0.007285993718303 when the actual value (CODATA) is
0.0072973525698. The difference is 0.1557% but I
still feel it is significant, and want to know why the
difference is there. Maybe I am calculating the
interference incorrectly or incompletely. Or maybe there
is another contribution to the fine structure which I have
missed. While writing this I may have discovered where my
error is. I kept telling myself that the fields
actually extend far beyond the effective RMS radius but
falling off in intensity, and I accounted for that in part
of the wave interference calculations, but not all of the
interference was calculated, because I failed to see its
tiny contribution before now.<br class=""><br class="">Another aspect of my
model which is unique and not incorporated in any other
model we have seen is the relative phase of the electrical
and magnetic components of the wave. This aspect
becomes important when understanding how the photon is
confined.<br class="">The electron exhibits many clues to its
nature. From this model we can calculate the exact known
value for the Quantum Hall effect, by simply running some
standard electrical engineering formula using the
"voltage", "current", and frequency. This indicates also
that an electrical engineering analysis may provide other
valuable information. Using a similar approach we
can understand that the electron will display a particular
phase relationship between E and M components. In a
simple EM resonant system the E and M components are
shifted 90 degrees at resonance. If we start with a
90 degree phase shift and look at the double loop
configuration of the wave we see an apparent 180 degree
phase shift in the confined E and M components, placing
them on opposite sides of the electron radius at any given
instant. Then it is much easier to see that with the E and
M fields on opposite sides, and the attraction between
these fields, the issue of photon confinement is
simplified somewhat.<br class=""><br class="">We still have a ways to go,
getting answers to many of the remaining questions.
But so far it seems like the group has uncovered some
important new understanding which may lead us to a
clearer, causal, view of physics, and provide a new basis
which can describe experiment more fully and
accurately.<br class=""><br class="">Chip<br class=""><br class="">-----Original
Message-----<br class="">From: General [mailto:<a style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline; COLOR: purple" href="mailto:general-bounces%2Bchipakins" target="_blank" class=""><span style="COLOR: purple" class="">general-bounces+chipakins</span></a>=<a style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline; COLOR: purple" href="mailto:gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank" class=""><span style="COLOR: purple" class="">gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</span></a>]
On Behalf Of Richard Gauthier<br class="">Sent: Saturday, February
28, 2015 11:47 PM<br class="">To: Nature of Light and Particles -
General Discussion</span></div></div></div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Times New Roman', serif; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt" class=""><span style="FONT-SIZE: 9pt; FONT-FAMILY: helvetica, sans-serif" class="">Subject:
Re: [General] double-loop electron model
discussion<br class=""><br class="">Hi Chip,<br class=""><br class=""> Thank you
for your thoughtful as well as personal history comments
about your interest in modeling the electron. My own
interest in the structure and composition of the electron
dates back to the late 1980’s. My spiritual guru gave some
new ideas in 1986 about how matter might be formed by a
kind of life principle transmitted through subtle
vibrating life-energy entities that have both a mental and
a physical portion. That idea intrigued me and soon I
tried to apply the idea to make a model of a photon as
being composed of millions of these oscillating
life-particles. I had mainly my intuition to guide me. My
photon model soon contained a single circulating energy
entity (a superluminal energy quantum) traveling helically
at a 45 degree angle with the speed c sqrt(2) and a total
momentum along a helical trajectory of (h/lambda) sqrt(2).
The energy quantum's helical radius is the photon’s
wavelength lambda divided by 2 pi. This result came out of
the requirement that the photon model should have its
experimental value of spin hbar (or minus hbar) generated
by the transverse component of the superluminal energy
quantum's total momentum along its helical trajectory,
while having the transluminal energy quantum’s
longitudinal component of momentum be the photon's linear
momentum p=h/lambda.<br class=""><br class=""> I then
modeled the electron as a closed charged photon-like
object. I knew very little about the Dirac equation except
its prediction of antimatter and that the electron has a
4pi rotational symmetry. I also found that a single
closed-loop of one wavelength of a photon (the Compton
wavelength h/mc) with the electron’s rest energy mc^2
yields a spin of 1 hbar — twice the value of the
electron’s spin. It hit me that making a double-loop of a
single wavelength photon produces an electron model with a
spin of 1/2 hbar.<br class=""><br class=""> While making
my electron model I realized that it should also have the
electron’s magnetic moment M — approximately the magnitude
of the Bohr magneton (e hbar)/2m. I set the electron model
to have the Bohr magneton for its magnetic moment by
adjusting the radius of the closed helical path of the
helically moving charged superluminal energy quantum so
that its helically circulating charge generates the Dirac
equation electron's Bohr magneton for the electron model.
(Choosing a slightly larger helical radius generates the
electron’s exact experimental value of magnetic moment
which is a little larger than the Bohr magneton’s
magnitude.)<br class=""><br class=""> Later I started
analyzing other people’s cyclical models of the electron
more closely. I found that Dirac had claimed that
electrons actually move at the speed of light, but that
only a sub-luminal speed can be observed. I found two
analyses of the Dirac equation that suggested that the
path of a moving electron’s charge can be described as
light-speed along an open helix. This gave me the idea to
fit my model of the circulating charged photon for a
resting electron to this light-speed helical approach. I
realized that the circulating photon in the electron model
would have an increased frequency f corresponding to its
increased total energy gamma mc^2 when the electron moves
forward, and that the corresponding wavelength of this
circulating charged photon would decrease with this
increasing frequency, in order to keep the speed of light
of the circulating charged photon constant. The radius of
the charged photon’s helix was found to decrease with
increasing electron velocity by the factor gamma^2 in
order for the photon’s wavelength to decrease as described
as the frequency of the charged photon increases with
increasing electron speed and total energy. All the math
worked out nicely, including the generation of the
electron’s spin 1/2 hbar for a slow moving electron from
the tangential component mc of the charged photon’s total
momentum gamma mc along its helical axis, multiplied by
the radius hbar/2mc of the charged photon’s helical axis
for a slow moving electron. And I realized that any
speed-of-light double-looping photon model for an electron
should also follow a corresponding helical path whose
radius decreases in the same way with the electron’s
increase speed. This is because the result only depends on
the relations E=hf, p=h/lambda , and c= lambda f ,
the basic quantum energy and momentum equations for a
photon and the equation for wave motion with speed
c.<br class=""><br class=""> Although I knew that
any acceptable electron model would have to generate the
relativistic de Broglie wavelength Ldb = h/(gamma mv) , I
was quite surprised that this result falls out so easily
from the circulating charged photon model of a moving
electron, where the longitudinal component of the
circulating charged photon’s wave vector k yields the wave
number that corresponds to the relativistic de Broglie
wavelength. Furthermore, this simple result for the origin
of the electron’s de Broglie wavelength suggests that the
quantum wave functions for a moving electron, which depend
heavily on the electron's de Broglie wavelength, are
produced mathematically from the waves generated by the
circulating charged photon that models the
electron.<br class=""><br class="">
Richard<br class=""><br class="">> On Feb 28, 2015, at 6:47 AM, Chip
Akins <<a style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline; COLOR: purple" href="mailto:chipakins@gmail.com" target="_blank" class=""><span style="COLOR: purple" class="">chipakins@gmail.com</span></a>>
wrote:<br class="">><br class="">> Hi Richard and ALL<br class="">><br class="">>
You asked for a comparison of electron
models.<br class="">><br class="">> Since 1986, while having lunch
with a mathematician, Eric Peterson, I have felt that the
electron was made up of EM waves, or a
photon.<br class="">><br class="">> Several of us have come to the
same conclusion.<br class="">><br class="">> When I saw your model
from 2005 many things started to make sense. That is
why I was so excited and interested to fully pursue the
math to try to deeply understand your TEQ model. It was
quite informative and inspiring to see your
work.<br class="">><br class="">> Since that time, principally due to
an Occam's razor argument, I have returned to the view
that TEQ's are not required to model the electron.
While I still feel that it may be possible that TEQ's
exist, I do not find, in my view, that it is required for
the modeling of the photon and electron.<br class="">><br class="">>
When I later saw John W and Martin's work from 1997 I was
again very interested, principally because they were
saying the same thing I was thinking, in
general.<br class="">><br class="">> While running the math and
testing the model from John W and Martin, it occurred to
me that we had to have some sort of photon model to build
the electron from. So I produced the simplest model I
could imagine which would fulfill what I felt then was the
basic criteria. My view of the basic criteria has
since changed due to this collaboration, so I am working
now to update my electron model. However it seems
most of the electron model remains intact.<br class="">><br class="">>
The fundamental differences between my model and John W.
and Martin's model are as
follows:<br class="">><br class="">>
I found that wave interference may be precisely the cause
for the exact value of the magnetic
moment anomaly, and the cause for the exact value for the
elementary
charge.<br class="">><br class="">>
That wave interference, incidentally, produces a new view
of the fine
structure
constant in the electron.<br class="">><br class="">> My motivation,
in part, to do this work, was because we have to provide
an electron model which is simple in comparison, and
competes with current theory and models in accuracy,
before such a model will be considered a viable
alternative.<br class="">><br class="">> My model currently falls
short of some of the goals that I feel we will need, in
order for our work to be considered noteworthy and to be
eventually accepted.<br class="">><br class="">> My model also
demonstrates the cause for inertial mass, but I think John
W. and Martin's model may illustrate the same property.
And in fact, all confined photon models may show the same
attribute of inertial mass.<br class="">><br class="">> There are
implications of the work we are doing which we also need
to discuss. If Matter is made from light, when you
think about its implications on relativity, leads to the
existence of a preferred reference rest frame in space,
leading us toward Chandra's view and CTF.<br class="">><br class="">>
Working with all of you is both enlightening and
inspiring.<br class="">><br class="">>
Chip<br class="">><br class="">><br class="">><br class="">><br class="">> -----Original
Message-----<br class="">> From: General<br class="">> [mailto:<a style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline; COLOR: purple" href="mailto:general-bounces%2Bchipakins" target="_blank" class=""><span style="COLOR: purple" class="">general-bounces+chipakins</span></a>=<a style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline; COLOR: purple" href="mailto:gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandpart" target="_blank" class=""><span style="COLOR: purple" class="">gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandpart</span></a><br class="">>
<a style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline; COLOR: purple" href="http://icles.org/" target="_blank" class=""><span style="COLOR: purple" class="">icles.org</span></a>] On Behalf Of
Richard Gauthier<br class="">> Sent: Friday, February 27, 2015
11:10 PM<br class="">> To: Nature of Light and Particles -
General Discussion<br class="">> Subject: [General] double-loop
electron model discussion<br class="">><br class="">> I would like to
start a thread that focuses on comparing and
contrasting the various double-loop electron models,
mainly John and Martin’s (J/M's), Chip’s, Vivian's and
mine, and any others that people may know of, to find any
common areas of agreement, and any points of difference. I
think we are all agreed that the resting electron in our
various models has spin 1/2 hbar. Chip’s model is based on
J/M's model. I’d like to ask Chip, if I might, what
commonalities and differences exist between J/M’s electron
model and Chip's electron model. We can go on from there,
if that’s agreeable.<br class="">>
Richard<br class="">>
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