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<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; COLOR: #000000">
<DIV><FONT color=#000000>John/Martin:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000>I concur with Chip. I would urge you to bury this
“emission as a result of interaction by the absorber”. Emission and absorption
might be separated by 13.8 billion years, or 46 billion light years. No way do
they constitute the same spacetime event. Claiming that they do is </FONT><FONT
color=#000000>the sort of thing that could attract a crackpot label. Malicious
people might use it to discredit you along with everything else you say and do.
And of course, this group. Better to stick with hard scientific evidence of pair
production, electron diffraction, Einstein-de Haas etc, and the
self-confined-photon electron. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000>I have little patience for spooky action at a distance.
What is it really? It isn’t some ansible. Or any kind of time machine. You can’t
even use it for instant messaging. I think it’s a parlour trick, smoke and
mirrors, quantum mysticism, or even a deliberate fraud. Please have a look at <A
title=http://arxiv.org/abs/0707.0401
href="http://arxiv.org/abs/0707.0401">http://arxiv.org/abs/0707.0401</A> where
Travis Norsen says this:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><EM>“Many textbooks and commentators report that Bell's theorem refutes the
possibility (suggested especially by Einstein, Podolsky, and Rosen in 1935) of
supplementing ordinary quantum theory with additional ("hidden") variables that
might restore determinism and/or some notion of an observer-independent reality.
On this view, Bell's theorem supports the orthodox Copenhagen interpretation.
Bell's own view of his theorem, however, was quite different”. </EM></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Also see work by Joy Christian: <A
title=http://postbiota.org/pipermail/tt/2007-November/001833.html
href="http://postbiota.org/pipermail/tt/2007-November/001833.html">Quantum
entanglement: is spookiness under threat?</A> and <A
href="http://arxiv.org/find/quant-ph/1/au:+Christian_J/0/1/0/all/0/1">http://arxiv.org/find/quant-ph/1/au:+Christian_J/0/1/0/all/0/1</A>.
All the mysticism is swept away by <EM>rotations do not commute</EM>.
</DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000>Regards</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000>John D</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=#000000></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; COLOR: #000000"></DIV>
<DIV
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<DIV style="FONT: 10pt tahoma">
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: #f5f5f5">
<DIV style="font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A title=chipakins@gmail.com
href="mailto:chipakins@gmail.com">Chip Akins</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, March 26, 2015 1:23 PM</DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org
href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org">'Nature of Light and
Particles - General Discussion'</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: [General] Group discussion at San
Diego</DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV></DIV>
<DIV
style='FONT-SIZE: small; TEXT-DECORATION: none; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri"; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; COLOR: #000000; FONT-STYLE: normal; DISPLAY: inline'>
<DIV class=WordSection1>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black">Hi Vivian<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black"><o:p></o:p></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black">Thank you. I have downloaded
your paper and am reading it. Of course I immediately found the similarities
between your electron model and mine. Please see attached.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black"><o:p></o:p></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black">I completely concur that the
Lorentz transformations are applied to confined photon particles and that the
structure, the EM wave structure, of these particles is the cause for the
Lorentz transformations, including length contraction and time dilation. Simply
due to the velocity limit of the constituent waves. So, in that scenario, time,
as we know it, is created, and modified in various frames, for confined EM wave
particles with velocity, by the EM wave motions and interactions, and time is
not an inherent property of space. Time is the rate at which confined EM wave
particles can react and interact, and is created by the interaction of space and
EM waves. Time is simply a measurement of the rate of particle
interactions.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black"><o:p></o:p></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black">We observe photons, waves, with
physical properties. They exhibit length, frequency, spin, etc. if we
correctly apply Lorentz transformations to these linear, light speed, waves, we
see redshift, or blue shift, but we still see a wave which has length and
travels at light speed. We do not see the length of the wave shrink to zero as
we would for a confined wave particle. So we can see for this simple example
that Lorentz transformations do not apply in the same sense as for confined wave
particles. The reason that time stops for a confined EM wave particle
traveling at light speed, is simply that the waves are traveling at their
maximum velocity in the direction of motion, so they cannot travel in their
particle trajectory, and they cannot interact with any adjacent particles moving
along with them. This specific scenario however does not apply to the
naturally linear moving photon.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black"><o:p></o:p></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black">The view that a photon is
exchanged in a single point in space time has some associated problems. Let’s
consider the implications of that view.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black"><o:p></o:p></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black">If a photon exists only at a
single point in spacetime it would not be able to have any frequency or
wavelength properties. If a photon is emitted and absorbed at the same
point in spacetime, it cannot have, perhaps billions, of cycles of its inherent
frequency, in the space between emitter and absorber, because there is no space
between emitter and absorber. <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black"><o:p></o:p></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black">Another implication of the “single
point in spacetime” approach is the predetermination of events. So let’s
say a photon in a distant galaxy millions of light years away, strikes the
retina of your eye on a starry night some evening next week. The single point in
spacetime approach makes that photon, in its reference frame, predetermine
events, in your reference frame, millions of years in the future. Or it could
mean that with every action we make, we change the past for the rest of the
universe. Neither of these options appear reasonable. <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black"><o:p></o:p></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black">Those are a few of the reasons why
I think there is something amiss in the single point in spacetime “solution” to
photon exchange. I do feel there is a reasonable answer, I just don’t think we
have it yet.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black"><o:p></o:p></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black">Chip<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black"><o:p></o:p></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black"><o:p></o:p></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black"><o:p></o:p></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: black"><o:p></o:p></SPAN> </P>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="BORDER-TOP: #e1e1e1 1pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-TOP: 3pt; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in">
<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif'>From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif'> General
[mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org]
<B>On Behalf Of </B>Vivian Robinson<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, March 25, 2015
6:22 PM<BR><B>To:</B> Nature of Light and Particles - General
Discussion<BR><B>Cc:</B> John Macken<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [General] Group
discussion at San Diego<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><o:p></o:p> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal>Dear Chandra, Chip, Martin and All,<o:p></o:p></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><o:p></o:p> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>Chandra I am please to see you moderating this discussion,
keeping people focussed. <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><o:p></o:p> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>My point of view is that all matter is composed of rotating
photons that make two revolutions per wavelength. Some of the predictions from
that model, as related to the electron are given in my paper, reference link
below.<o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><o:p></o:p> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><A
href="http://www.la-press.com/a-proposal-for-the-structure-and-properties-of-the-electron-article-a2645">http://www.la-press.com/a-proposal-for-the-structure-and-properties-of-the-electron-article-a2645</A><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><o:p></o:p> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>Chip you will see in that presentation I have suggested that
it is this rotating photon structure of matter that is responsible for the half
hbar spin of all individual sub atomic particles, for E = mc**2 and the
relativistic corrections of mass, length and time with velocity. As such the
special relativity corrections are not something that is imposed upon matter by
any nature of space-time. It is this structure that is responsible for those
special relativity corrections. I have also made some experimentally testable
predictions based upon that model and hope that, at some time in the future some
of those predictions will be tested. The simplest is the change the electron's
radius with velocity.<o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><o:p></o:p> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>I also agree with Martin's comments about experiment being
the arbiter of truth. It is no good having a theory which dispenses with any
properly measured phenomena. In the space-time continuum, a photon traveling at
c is a point. In its own time frame, it is no sooner emitted than it is
absorbed. I would like to be so bold as to suggest that does not mean that the
absorber has to know that the emitter has emitted the photon and ready itself to
receive it. <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><o:p></o:p> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>A point in one frame of reference is not necessarily a point
in another frame of reference. Electronic circuit diagrams are every bit as good
a communications medium as are mathematics. Those of you familiar with them will
often see two components on a circuit diagram joined by or at a single point.
When it comes to the reality of constructing the circuit, that point finishes up
being a line or connecting wire that can extend from one end of the circuit to
the other. A point in space-time is not necessarily a point in space. As
astronomers measure, photons leaving galaxies are red shifted when they are
detected, a phenomenon that will not occur in a point. <o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><o:p></o:p> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>One of my reasons for this email is to introduce John Macken
to this group. John is from California and has worked extensively with photons.
I think we all agree that an understanding of the nature of the photon is
essential. John we would like to receive your viewpoints on the photon but
please, as the implications of the topic are vast, restrict yourself to
presentations of the structure of the photon and its implications for the
structure of electrons, the main topics of this discussion
group.<o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><o:p></o:p> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>Cheers,<o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><o:p></o:p> </P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>Vivian Robinson<o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><o:p></o:p> </P>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>On 26/03/2015, at 7:38 AM, Richard Gauthier <<A
href="mailto:richgauthier@gmail.com">richgauthier@gmail.com</A>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><BR><BR><o:p></o:p></P>
<BLOCKQUOTE style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt; MARGIN-TOP: 5pt">
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>Hello Chandra, <o:p></o:p></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal> That sounds like a good approach. I will
prepare a set of discussion points for my approach to the electron/photon and
pass it to you and the others for consideration.<o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal> Richard<o:p></o:p></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><o:p></o:p> </P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal>On Wed, Mar 25, 2015 at 9:18 AM, chandra <<A
href="mailto:chandra@phys.uconn.edu"
target=_blank>chandra@phys.uconn.edu</A>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></P>
<BLOCKQUOTE
style="BORDER-TOP: medium none; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 6pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 4.8pt; BORDER-LEFT: #cccccc 1pt solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0in">
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Dear Friends: </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt"> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt">I am delighted to see that our discussions are
heading towards defining a fruitful platform. As Martin has done; each of us
need to unambiguously define our position pertaining to fundamental
postulates (“accepted beliefs”); which are at the root of our individual
theories for the discussion, “Electron</SPAN> <--> Photon”. This will
help us down select and define a very clear set of discussion-points that
would be possible to carry out within the 3-hour time we have on the
Thursday morning. <o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"> <o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto">Of course, we
will be able to advance this discussion quite a bit over this
web-saved-emails, if all of us quickly define your positions regarding the
fundamental postulates behind the theories that we believe in and we are
using to advance your current models for electrons (photons). Then our
volunteer editors can collect and group them. Then we can collectively
iterate a few times and then we finalize the discussion-focal points. If we
do this soon, we will have time to even re-assess whether we have succeeded
in down selecting the best set of discussion issues while email-based
discussion keeps on advancing. <o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"> <o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto">Remember, even
though ours is “Special Conference” granted by SPIE; we still need to
conform to its basic rules behind the publication of SPIE proceedings.
Proceeding papers should be between 6 to 15 pages long, and never to exceed
20-pages. <B><I>All papers in the proceeding must have assigned conference
numbers</I></B>. Obviously, our “discussion papers” do not have numbers; as
we have not submitted abstracts for these papers yet. <o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"> <o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto">Here is a
possible solution. My discussion with SPIE indicates that SPIE will be happy
to assign paper numbers like post deadline! Papers; if we edit and group the
output of our discussions into well-selected set of papers (between 6 to 20
pages) and authored by appropriate set of discussion participants. If all of
you “sign up to this approach”; then we need to pro-actively organize the
discussions-points and create <B><I>TENTATIVE</I></B> discussion groups who
will author specific discussion-papers. “Tentative” implies that we should
be able to re-organize our collective authorships, if necessary, as we
finalize the separation of discussion outcomes into a well-defined set of
papers. <o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"> <o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto">Are all of you
willing to organize our discussions issues with this mode of publication by
several sub-groups, yet to be defined? <o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"> <o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto">Chandra.<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><A
name=14c51ba2edf82b59__MailEndCompose><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif; COLOR: #1f497d'> </SPAN></A><o:p></o:p></P>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-TOP: 3pt; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in">
<P class=MsoNormal
style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><B><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Tahoma",sans-serif'>From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Tahoma",sans-serif'> General
[mailto:<A href="mailto:general-bounces%2Bchandra"
target=_blank>general-bounces+chandra</A>=<A
href="mailto:phys.uconn.edu@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"
target=_blank>phys.uconn.edu@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</A>] <B>On
Behalf Of </B>Mark, Martin van der<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, March 25, 2015
9:38 AM</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><BR><B>To:</B> Nature of Light and Particles - General
Discussion<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [General] Group discussion at San
Diego<o:p></o:p></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><o:p></o:p> </P></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"> <o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif; COLOR: #1f497d'>Dear
Chip, </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif; COLOR: #1f497d'>let
me start by answering your questions (not because John cannot do it, but he
is doing a lot of answering already)</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif; COLOR: #1f497d'>First
of all you are right in saying that it is not the whole story, something
else is going on as well.</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif; COLOR: #1f497d'> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif; COLOR: #1f497d'>But
first we have to get a few things very straight.</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif; COLOR: #1f497d'>What
I know as being correct knowledge, as a professional physicist, is what I
will describe below. Correct knowledge is that knowledge that science has
approved of to be the closest to the truth as we presently know. Not more,
and also not any less.</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif; COLOR: #1f497d'> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif; COLOR: #1f497d'>(Special)
relativity is essentially correct, it describes experiment, including time
dilation, twin paradox, etc.</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif; COLOR: #1f497d'>The
foundation of the theory is that the speed of light is the same for all
observers. The consequence is that clocks flying at high speed seem to be
slow (the clock thinks the same of stationary you). Clocks will stop ticking
in the limit where they would move at light speed. At the same time space is
contracted, the clocks look short. No size (in the direction of motion) will
remain when at light speed.</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif; COLOR: #1f497d'>Conclusion:
something that goes at the speed of light does not see any time or space, it
is there but contracted to nothing at all. Something that happens, but
without space or time interval. This is what we call an event. It is a point
in space-time.</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif; COLOR: #1f497d'> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif; COLOR: #1f497d'>If
you cannot agree with the above, you cannot agree with physics as it stands.
It may not be the whole story, but the bit I described is the consistent
truth to our very best knowledge. One cannot dismiss it out of hand, or even
with a lot of experiments, because a zillion experiments have confirmed this
already. There may be an additional subtlety that has been overlooked, but
then one has to point out that subtlety very
precisely.</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif; COLOR: #1f497d'> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif; COLOR: #1f497d'>Now
there are at least two extra things to the story you want to talk about,
some subtleties you may call them, but before I go into those, I want to
point out something else that we know to our very best knowledge. It is the
single most puzzling thing, I believe, in physics
today.</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif; COLOR: #1f497d'>It
is the experimental result of the EPR-experiments, the quantum
teleportation, quantum eraser, and other quantum entanglement experiments,
see Bell inequalities and GHZ entanglement. The result of these experiments
is the proof that space is non-local for entangled quantum states. That may
be a part of a very limited set of states describing normal life, but it
shows that space is not simply what normal reason of local causality
makes of it.</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif; COLOR: #1f497d'> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif; COLOR: #1f497d'>Again
I have so far not done any speculation, this is what the situation in
physics is.</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif; COLOR: #1f497d'> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif; COLOR: #1f497d'>From
here it is still nothing new really, it is only just taking the full
consequences of the above, but it is not an embedded piece of knowledge in
the whole body of physics.</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif; COLOR: #1f497d'> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif; COLOR: #1f497d'>So
now it comes; These results can be understood completely if we look at them
from the point of view of emission as a result of interaction by the
absorber!!!!!! In all their weirdness, this is how it actually seems to be
workings.</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif; COLOR: #1f497d'>Interaction
of the emitter and absorber to exchange a photon is saying that the photon
is part of an event (or that two entangled photons [emitted from a singlet
state] are part of a single event with one emitter and two absorbers). The
emitter and absorber(s) are one at that event.</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif; COLOR: #1f497d'>This
notion unifies the idea of non-locality and emission of light, AS A
CONSEQUENCE OF THE LIGHTSPEED BEING CONSTANT FOR ALL
ABSORBERS.</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif; COLOR: #1f497d'> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif; COLOR: #1f497d'>Now
you can choose to dismiss it or not.</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif; COLOR: #1f497d'>There
here are the mentioned two subtleties: </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d">1)</SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 7pt; COLOR: #1f497d">
</SPAN><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d">light is quantized, we are talking about
photons. That is not a required part of relativity, but it is not clear to
me how it would upset it. Or is it perhaps..?</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d">2)</SPAN><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 7pt; COLOR: #1f497d">
</SPAN><SPAN style="COLOR: #1f497d">Light does not really go at the speed of
light or rather it is, but I mean photons are not really going at the
speed of light. The near-field part of the excitation or the limited
distance between emission and absorption (it is not infinite) puts
boundaries on it and pulls the total emission slightly off the
energy-momentum shell, hence it is ever, ever,ever so slightly slow…. (only
the radiative part is light speed and rigorously
on-shell)</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif; COLOR: #1f497d'> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif; COLOR: #1f497d'>Well
John, or anybody else, may add what is missing! I have to
go…</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif; COLOR: #1f497d'>Best
regards, Martin</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif; COLOR: #1f497d'> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif; COLOR: #1f497d'> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN lang=DE
style='FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Arial",sans-serif; COLOR: navy'>Dr.
Martin B. van der Mark</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Arial",sans-serif; COLOR: navy'>Principal
Scientist, Minimally Invasive Healthcare</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif; COLOR: navy'> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Arial",sans-serif; COLOR: navy'>Philips
Research Europe - Eindhoven</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Arial",sans-serif; COLOR: navy'>High
Tech Campus, Building 34 (WB2.025)</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Arial",sans-serif; COLOR: navy'>Prof.
Holstlaan 4</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Arial",sans-serif; COLOR: navy'>5656
AE Eindhoven, The Netherlands</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Arial",sans-serif; COLOR: navy'>Tel:
<A href="tel:%2B31%2040%202747548" target=_blank>+31 40
2747548</A></SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif; COLOR: #1f497d'> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="BORDER-TOP: #b5c4df 1pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-TOP: 3pt; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in">
<P class=MsoNormal
style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><B><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Tahoma",sans-serif'>From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Tahoma",sans-serif'> General [<A
href="mailto:general-bounces+martin.van.der.mark=philips.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"
target=_blank>mailto:general-bounces+martin.van.der.mark=philips.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</A>]
<B>On Behalf Of </B>Chip Akins<BR><B>Sent:</B> woensdag 25 maart 2015
13:35<BR><B>To:</B> 'Nature of Light and Particles - General
Discussion'<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [General] Group discussion at San
Diego</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"> <o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto">Hi John
W<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"> <o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto">Still working
on coming to grips with emission and absorption interactions.<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto">Lots of
opinion follows…<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"> <o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto">I feel that
photon exchange, and virtual particle exchange, is a mechanism we can
demonstrate and is a required part of our understanding, at least for many
short range interactions. However I do not feel the “single point in
spacetime” approach provides the answer. I believe that photons are very
simple linear, principally transverse, quantized wave structures. And that
mater is made of wave structures as well. And as such photons are
responsible for creating relativity. Photons are then the fundamental
upon which relativity is built, and are not subject to the spacetime
velocity transformations, but rather are the cause for these transformations
being required for mater.<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"> <o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto">Imagine an
asteroid or planet orbiting a star a billion light years away. Now
envision the past light cone for an absorber on that asteroid or
planet. If photons zig, zagged in their paths to their destination,
the popular concept could work for absorption and emission. But of
course they travel in “straight” lines in spacetime. Even if an absorber can
see all of its past light cone at one point in space time, it still does not
correctly explain photon exchange. There is something else going on
here, something is missing, and something that is not really there has been
“added” to try to explain things. I feel we have reached for an explanation
which is convenient, but an error, and that we do not yet have the real
answer to this issue.<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"> <o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto">Still eager to
understand.<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"> <o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto">Chip<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"> <o:p></o:p></P>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="BORDER-TOP: #e1e1e1 1pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-TOP: 3pt; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in">
<P class=MsoNormal
style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><B><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif'>From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif'> General [<A
href="mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"
target=_blank>mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</A>]
<B>On Behalf Of </B>John Williamson<BR><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, March 24, 2015
10:28 PM<BR><B>To:</B> Nature of Light and Particles - General
Discussion<BR><B>Cc:</B> Anthony Booth; Hans De Raedt<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re:
[General] Group discussion at San Diego</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"> <o:p></o:p></P>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt; mso-margin-top-alt: auto"><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Tahoma",sans-serif'>Dear Chip and
everyone,<BR><BR>I am trying to start to get my act together in preparation
for August, and just came across the keynote talk from Carver Mead from
nature of light and particles 5. It is available here :<BR><BR><A
href="http://natureoflight.org/"
target=_blank>http://natureoflight.org/</A><BR><BR>It addresses the very
issue of interaction with the absorber we discussed earlier. In my opinion
it is spot on - even though the answer to the last question (similar to your
worry Chip) was rather weak - that a lot of people have trouble with
resonances over million year plus-time scales. Indeed.<BR><BR>I think the
proper way to view this is, as I said, from the point of view of the
observer being in touch with all points on the lightcone at previous times,
not that the emitter sees all "future" times all over the universe. This is
a "pull" not a "push" for the direction of causality. The observer says "hit
me!". The past is happy to oblige - zillions of hits per second painting the
universe of your perceptions.<BR><BR>Now I enjoyed Carver Mead's book
thoroughly a few years ago when I first came across it (thanks Nick) and he
is one person I would very much like to meet if I'm coming to California.
That man can really think - and think freely. Is he coming to this
one, and, if not, can anyone introduce me? He would be a most excellent
person to have on the group. Another excellent chap - and I have just
finished reading some spectacularly interesting work of his- is Tony Booth
(copied above). Tony is a real engineer (I am in an engineering department
but I can tell the difference). Please add him to the general discussion
group!<BR><BR>Further to this whole developing endeavour. I am perfectly
delighted to try and give classes on any aspect of the new theory - or to
help bring people up to speed on some of the other relevant theories and
areas in my areas of expertise - in quantum mechanics (relativistic or
ordinary), experimental solid state physics, elementary particle physics
(including QED, the standard model and various field theories), and
relativity (special or general). Another favourite theme of mine is current
problems and mysteries in Science as a whole. Another possibility is a
question and answer session on "how stuff works". I'm particularly
interested in questions I cannot answer. We should make a list!<BR><BR>I
expect lots of you to contribute and educate me in areas where I am weak
such as optics, photonics, atomic physics to name but a very few (my
ignorance is, almost, boundless). Martin and I are quite used to this as we
both belong to an international study club (I was a founder member - but it
is still going strong after a quarter of a century) which does this sort of
thing regularly. It is BIG fun! I'm sure there will be a lot of input
from others in the group in developing aspects of the above theories where,
I am sure, many of you go beyond me.<BR><BR>I already have tens of hours of
lecture material prepared and am perfectly happy to go on for multiple hours
at a time (if people can stand it). I just gave four hours of lectures
on-the-trot yesterday (then had lunch and gave another one). I am quite used
to it - and it would be much more fun than the first year vector and complex
number maths given in two of the lectures today. If a room can be made
available either before or after the conference with a projector and board
all would be welcome. I know Martin would be prepared to talk on his areas
of expertise as well, and I'm sure others of the more senior group would be
delighted to help educate the younger ones as well. <BR><BR>We could,
further, invite anyone from industry who was interested in new, linear,
paradigms for developing and thinking about new kinds of materials, devices
and systems for a further session, perhaps after the conference proper. This
may have the added advantage of snowballing into some other meetings and
prospects for the future. <BR><BR>What does everyone think?<BR><BR>Regards,
John.</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<DIV>
<DIV class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center>
<HR align=center SIZE=2 width="100%">
</DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt; mso-margin-top-alt: auto"><B><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Tahoma",sans-serif'>From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Tahoma",sans-serif'> General
[general-bounces+john.williamson=<A
href="mailto:glasgow.ac.uk@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"
target=_blank>glasgow.ac.uk@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</A>] on
behalf of chandra [<A href="mailto:chandra@phys.uconn.edu"
target=_blank>chandra@phys.uconn.edu</A>]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Monday, March 09,
2015 7:02 PM<BR><B>To:</B> 'Nature of Light and Particles - General
Discussion'<BR><B>Cc:</B> Hans De Raedt<BR><B>Subject:</B> [General] Group
discussion at San Diego</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto">Dear
Out-of-Box “Electron Modelers”:<o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif; COLOR: #1f497d'> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt">We are arranging for a special 3-hour (8 to 11AM)
discussion session, especially, for this group, on Thursday, August, 13,
2015. The title has been deliberately chosen as a somewhat open ended
question: </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><B><I><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 14pt">“Are electrons oscillating photons or oscillations
of the vacuum itself?”</SPAN></I></B><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt; COLOR: #1f497d"> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt">If needed, the 3-huor duration would be flexible;
and we can add an extra hour. During the main conference schedule, all of
you have been given the standard 20-minute slots. This compensating
discussion period provides all of you a better forum to debate and further
develop your concepts. </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt"> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt">I will take the role of the Moderator. I would need
a couple of volunteer editors from your “Electron Modeling” group. Feel free
to suggest their names. Obviously, I am looking for “volunteers” who are
very respectful to logically self-consistent views of others in spite of
those views being counter to their personal views. All of you will be given
the opportunity to present the summary of your views, as well-articulated
issues/point-of-views to promote discussions. Duration of this first
presentation will be short (5 minutes??).</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt"> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt">The ideas presented above are suggestions, and
obviously, they are not set in stone; since we want to maximize the
scientific outcome of this discussion. So, please, feel free to send me your
suggestions through this “General Forum” to develop a better approach
towards our ultimate ambitious goal: The correct ontological model of the
electron!</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt"> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt">I am soliciting also suggestions and editorial
support regarding how to incorporate the summary of this discussion in
the SPIE proceeding. The turn-around time has to be less than a month.
Normally, SPIE publishes many of the proceedings pre-conference publication
available during the conference. We have been holding out for
post-conference. We must finalize everything by the end of
September.</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt"> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Please, develop concepts and ideas on how to
summarize the discussion/debate and also relate them to your individual
papers. Remember that SPIE proceeding rule is 10-page limit for individual
articles.</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt"> </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Also remember, while preparing your papers and
presentations that our dominant SPIE audience consists of engineering.
Engineers think in terms emulating nature allowed processes in different
permutations and combinations to create new working tools and technologies,
in spite of their incomplete understanding of the deeper complete theory.
So, try to add relevant experiments to illustrate the deeper ontological
processes that may be going on in nature; even though you are speculating
them with your mathematical models. </SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt">
</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Sincerely,</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"><SPAN
style="FONT-SIZE: 11pt">Chandra.</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto"> <o:p></o:p></P>
<DIV class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center>
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