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<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; COLOR: #000000">
<DIV>John M:</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>I’d like to mention a few things that I think are important. I hope you
find some of them useful. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="LINE-HEIGHT: 13pt"><SPAN
style="COLOR: ; LINE-HEIGHT: 13pt"><FONT color=#0000ff>Gravitational waves
propagate in the medium of spacetime. </FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="LINE-HEIGHT: 13pt"><SPAN
style="COLOR: ; LINE-HEIGHT: 13pt"><FONT color=#0000ff></FONT></SPAN> </P>
<DIV>We’ve all read Minkowski thundering on about <A
href="http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Translation:Space_and_Time">space and
time</A>: <EM><FONT face="Times New Roman">“space for itself, and time for
itself shall completely reduce to a mere shadow, and only some sort of union of
the two shall preserve independence”</FONT></EM>. I’m afraid that’s bollocks. We
live in a world of space and motion. You can find Einstein <A
href="http://www.rain.org/~karpeles/einsteindis.html">talking about space</A>
long after 1908. He says space rather than spacetime. He says a field is a state
of space. Not spacetime. Now take a look at <A
href="http://www.rebelscience.org/Crackpots/notorious.htm">this</A>. There is no
motion in spacetime. It’s an abstract thing, a static block-universe
mathematical model that presents all times at once. Waves move through space,
not spacetime. </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style="COLOR: ; LINE-HEIGHT: 13pt"><FONT color=#0000ff>They propagate
at the speed of light when observed from any frame of
reference.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style="COLOR: ; LINE-HEIGHT: 13pt"><FONT
color=#0000ff></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style="COLOR: ; LINE-HEIGHT: 13pt"><FONT color=#000000>A
gravitational field is a place where the speed of light is not constant. Optical
clocks go slower when they’re lower. Light bends <EM>because</EM> the speed of
light is not constant. <A
href="http://einsteinpapers.press.princeton.edu/vol7-trans/156?highlightText=%22speed%20of%20light%22">Check
out Einstein on this</A>. So when a gravitational waves come along you should
see remote pulsars going faster. Because you’re going slower. Only when you go
slower your clocks go slower too, and you measure the slower light at the same
old speed. </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style="COLOR: ; LINE-HEIGHT: 13pt"></SPAN><SPAN
style="COLOR: ; LINE-HEIGHT: 13pt"><FONT
color=#0000ff></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN style="COLOR: ; LINE-HEIGHT: 13pt"><FONT color=#0000ff>Therefore,
there is a similarity between gravitational waves and electromagnetic waves in
that 1) both appear to propagate at the speed of light from all frames of
reference, 2) both transfer energy at the speed of light, 3) both are
transverse waves, and 4) both have polarization properties.
<o:p></o:p></FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="LINE-HEIGHT: 13pt"><SPAN
style="COLOR: ; LINE-HEIGHT: 13pt"><o:p></o:p></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="LINE-HEIGHT: 13pt"><FONT face=Calibri>Agreed. All the
more so because a photon has an active gravitational mass. In a way, the
electromagnetic wave is a gravitational wave too*. </FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="LINE-HEIGHT: 13pt"><FONT
face=Calibri></FONT> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="LINE-HEIGHT: 13pt"><FONT color=#0000ff><SPAN
style="COLOR: ; LINE-HEIGHT: 13pt">Photons are usually modeled as propagating
through the empty void of spacetime. </SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="LINE-HEIGHT: 13pt"><FONT color=#0000ff><SPAN
style="COLOR: ; LINE-HEIGHT: 13pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="LINE-HEIGHT: 13pt"><FONT style="face: calibri"><FONT
face=Calibri>People say the electric wave generates the magnetic wave and vice
versa. That’s bollocks too. It’s an electromagnetic wave. The electric waveform
is the spatial derivative of potential, the magnetic waveform is the time
derivative of potential. There aren’t two different waves. </FONT></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="LINE-HEIGHT: 13pt"><FONT style="face: calibri"><FONT
face=Calibri></FONT></FONT> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="LINE-HEIGHT: 13pt"><FONT color=#0000ff><SPAN
style="COLOR: ; LINE-HEIGHT: 13pt">1) Why do photons only propagate at the speed
of light? </SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="LINE-HEIGHT: 13pt"><FONT color=#0000ff><SPAN
style="COLOR: ; LINE-HEIGHT: 13pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="LINE-HEIGHT: 13pt"><FONT style="face: calibri"><FONT
style="face: calibri"><FONT face=Calibri>Because light moves at the speed at
which light moves.</FONT> </FONT></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="LINE-HEIGHT: 13pt"><FONT style="face: calibri"><FONT
style="face: calibri" face=Calibri></FONT></FONT> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="LINE-HEIGHT: 13pt"><FONT color=#0000ff><SPAN
style="COLOR: ; LINE-HEIGHT: 13pt">2) Why do photons have wave properties?
</SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="LINE-HEIGHT: 13pt"><FONT color=#0000ff><SPAN
style="COLOR: ; LINE-HEIGHT: 13pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="LINE-HEIGHT: 13pt"><FONT color=#0000ff><SPAN
style="COLOR: ; LINE-HEIGHT: 13pt"><FONT color=#000000 face=Calibri>Because
that’s what they are.</FONT> </SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="LINE-HEIGHT: 13pt"><FONT color=#0000ff><SPAN
style="COLOR: ; LINE-HEIGHT: 13pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="LINE-HEIGHT: 13pt"><FONT color=#0000ff><SPAN
style="COLOR: ; LINE-HEIGHT: 13pt">3) Two entangled photons have the ability to
communicate instantly over large distances. </SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="LINE-HEIGHT: 13pt"><FONT color=#0000ff><SPAN
style="COLOR: ; LINE-HEIGHT: 13pt"></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="LINE-HEIGHT: 13pt"><SPAN
style="COLOR: ; LINE-HEIGHT: 13pt"><FONT color=#000000 face=Calibri>I dispute
that. There is no instant messaging. </FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="LINE-HEIGHT: 13pt"><FONT color=#0000ff><SPAN
style="COLOR: ; LINE-HEIGHT: 13pt"><FONT color=#000000
face=Calibri></FONT></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="LINE-HEIGHT: 13pt"><FONT color=#0000ff><SPAN
style="COLOR: ; LINE-HEIGHT: 13pt">4) Why is there no amplitude term in the
equation <I>E = </I></SPAN><I><SPAN
style="FONT-FAMILY: ; COLOR: ; LINE-HEIGHT: 13pt"><FONT
face="Cambria Math">ħω</FONT></SPAN></I><SPAN
style="COLOR: ; LINE-HEIGHT: 13pt">? <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="LINE-HEIGHT: 13pt"><SPAN
style="COLOR: ; LINE-HEIGHT: 13pt"><o:p></o:p></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="LINE-HEIGHT: 13pt"><SPAN
style="COLOR: ; LINE-HEIGHT: 13pt"><FONT color=#000000 face=Calibri>There is.
The dimensionality of action h can be expressed as momentum x distance. That
distance is an amplitude, and it’s the same amplitude regardless of frequency.
Only it’s hidden in plain sight:</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="LINE-HEIGHT: 13pt"><SPAN
style="COLOR: ; LINE-HEIGHT: 13pt"><FONT color=#0000ff
face=Calibri></FONT></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="LINE-HEIGHT: 13pt"><IMG title=image
style="BORDER-TOP: 0px; BORDER-RIGHT: 0px; BACKGROUND-IMAGE: none; BORDER-BOTTOM: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; BORDER-LEFT: 0px; DISPLAY: inline; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px"
border=0 alt=image src="cid:8D1E5C26033540EA8CAEAF67403A5629@HPlaptop"
width=1088 height=671></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="LINE-HEIGHT: 13pt"><SPAN
style="COLOR: ; LINE-HEIGHT: 13pt"><FONT color=#0000ff
face=Calibri></FONT></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="LINE-HEIGHT: 13pt"><SPAN
style="COLOR: ; LINE-HEIGHT: 13pt"><FONT color=#000000 face=Calibri>Roll your
finger round in a circle. Roll it fast or roll it slow, but roll it round the
same circle. Then think on this: only one wavelength will do to make an
electron, where that wavelength is 2π times the common amplitude. Or 4π if you
prefer. </FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="LINE-HEIGHT: 13pt"><SPAN
style="COLOR: ; LINE-HEIGHT: 13pt"><FONT color=#0000ff
face=Calibri></FONT></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="LINE-HEIGHT: 13pt"><SPAN
style="COLOR: ; LINE-HEIGHT: 13pt"><FONT color=#0000ff>I claim that all of these
questions have reasonable answers and the key to unlocking these answers comes
from the simple equation: </FONT></SPAN><FONT color=#0000ff><I><SPAN
style="COLOR: ">Z<SUB>s</SUB> = c<SUP>3</SUP>/G</SPAN></I><SPAN
style="COLOR: "> </SPAN></FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="LINE-HEIGHT: 13pt"><FONT color=#0000ff><SPAN
style="COLOR: "></SPAN></FONT> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="LINE-HEIGHT: 13pt"><FONT face=Calibri>I agree that
they have reasonable answers, and that the impedance of space is important, but
it varies along with c along with permittivity and permeability, so I don’t
favour one simple equation. </FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="LINE-HEIGHT: 13pt"><FONT
face=Calibri></FONT> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="LINE-HEIGHT: 13pt"><SPAN style="COLOR: "><FONT
color=#0000ff>Electrons can appear to be confined photons because there is
definitely a wave propagating at the speed of light and confined to a volume
with a radius related to the electron’s Compton wavelength</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="LINE-HEIGHT: 13pt"><SPAN style="COLOR: "><FONT
face=Calibri></FONT></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="LINE-HEIGHT: 13pt"><SPAN style="COLOR: "><FONT
color=#0000ff><FONT color=#000000 face=Calibri>Good stuff.</FONT> </FONT><FONT
color=#000000 face=Calibri>But not that light moves through space in straight
lines, so that light is confined because space is curved into a closed path, and
you can’t make a charged particle without curving it all the way round. So you
will never find a charged particle with 99% of the electron’s charge. Check out
<A
href="http://www.compumag.org/jsite/images/stories/newsletter/ICS-99-06-2-Hammond.pdf">Percy
Hammond</A> and <A
href="https://www.google.co.uk/?gws_rd=ssl#q=electromagnetic+geometry">electromagnetic
geometry</A>. A gravitational field is described as curved spacetime, but
actually, that’s just inhomogeneous space. See attached. An electromagnetic
field is curved space. When an electromagnetic wave moves through space,
<EM>space waves</EM>. </FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="LINE-HEIGHT: 13pt"><SPAN style="COLOR: "><FONT
color=#000000 face=Calibri></FONT></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="LINE-HEIGHT: 13pt"><SPAN style="COLOR: "><FONT
color=#0000ff>I would like someone to comment on the basic contention that
spacetime has impedance of <I>c<SUP>3</SUP>/G</I>. Once there is agreement
on this point, I can go step by step and <U>prove</U> that spacetime has energy
density and eventually reach a conclusion about the structure of both photons
and electrons. <o:p></o:p></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="LINE-HEIGHT: 13pt"><SPAN
style="COLOR: "><o:p></o:p></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="LINE-HEIGHT: 13pt"><SPAN style="COLOR: "><FONT
style="COLOR: #0000ff"><FONT style="COLOR: #000000" face=Calibri>We will never
agree about everything. But we are barking up the same tree, and I accept that
space has an energy density. You can find me saying a photon is associated with
spatial curvature and energy density because it’s like injecting a pulse of
space into space. Only it’s dynamical. It moves. IMHO it’s a wave of curved
space moving through space. See the bottom portion of the picture below. And the
spatial derivative of this curvature gives you the E-field variation. See the
upper portion of the picture below. The time-derivative is the B-field
variation. Light is alternating displacement current, and displacement current
does what it says on the can. It displaces things, things like a photon. Only
when a 511keV photon displaces itself into a closed chiral path, we don’t call
it a photon any more. </FONT></FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="LINE-HEIGHT: 13pt"><SPAN style="COLOR: "><FONT
face=Calibri></FONT></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="LINE-HEIGHT: 13pt"><SPAN style="COLOR: "><IMG
title=afield2
style="BORDER-TOP: 0px; BORDER-RIGHT: 0px; BACKGROUND-IMAGE: none; BORDER-BOTTOM: 0px; PADDING-TOP: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 0px; BORDER-LEFT: 0px; DISPLAY: inline; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px"
border=0 alt=afield2 src="cid:119B86EA3653444E93610F3867E21CAB@HPlaptop"
width=640 height=316> <FONT style="COLOR: #000000" face=Calibri>
</FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="LINE-HEIGHT: 13pt"><SPAN style="COLOR: "></SPAN><FONT
face=Calibri>Regards</FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="LINE-HEIGHT: 13pt"><FONT face=Calibri>John
D</FONT></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="LINE-HEIGHT: 13pt"><FONT
face=Calibri></FONT> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="LINE-HEIGHT: 13pt"><FONT face=Calibri>* </FONT><SPAN
style="COLOR: "><FONT style="face: calibri">See the little squares in the
depiction above? Wherever a square is skewed, that’s a virtual photon. Wherever
a square is shortened, that’s a virtual graviton. Look up the middle, where the
E field variation is zero. The squares are shortened there. And get this: skewed
squares are shortened squares. </FONT></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="LINE-HEIGHT: 13pt"><SPAN style="COLOR: "><FONT
style="face: calibri"></FONT></SPAN> </P>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt; FONT-FAMILY: 'Calibri'; COLOR: #000000"></DIV>
<DIV
style='FONT-SIZE: small; TEXT-DECORATION: none; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri"; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; COLOR: #000000; FONT-STYLE: normal; DISPLAY: inline'>
<DIV style="FONT: 10pt tahoma">
<DIV><FONT size=3 face=Calibri></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV style="BACKGROUND: #f5f5f5">
<DIV style="font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A title=john@macken.com
href="mailto:john@macken.com">John Macken</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, April 15, 2015 6:17 PM</DIV>
<DIV><B>To:</B> <A title=general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org
href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org">'Nature of Light and
Particles - General Discussion'</A> </DIV>
<DIV><B>Subject:</B> Re: [General] Electron Size in a
Collision</DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV></DIV>
<DIV
style='FONT-SIZE: small; TEXT-DECORATION: none; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri"; FONT-WEIGHT: normal; COLOR: #000000; FONT-STYLE: normal; DISPLAY: inline'>
<DIV class=WordSection1>
<P class=MsoNormal style="LINE-HEIGHT: 105%"><SPAN
style="COLOR: blue; LINE-HEIGHT: 105%">Hello Everyone,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="LINE-HEIGHT: 105%"><SPAN
style="COLOR: blue; LINE-HEIGHT: 105%"><o:p></o:p></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="LINE-HEIGHT: 105%"><SPAN
style="COLOR: blue; LINE-HEIGHT: 105%">I have several things to talk about, but
I will start by referencing John D’s comment about seismic wavelet. You
are absolutely correct to say “</SPAN><SPAN
style="COLOR: #c00000; LINE-HEIGHT: 105%">When a wave moves through the ground,
the ground waves. When a wave moves through the ocean, the ocean waves. When a
wave moves through space...</SPAN><SPAN
style="COLOR: #c00000; LINE-HEIGHT: 105%">”.</SPAN><SPAN
style="COLOR: blue; LINE-HEIGHT: 105%"> The implication is that everyone
in the group is talking about waves associated with photons, but there is no
fundamental understanding about exactly what an electromagnetic wave is.
It is easy to talk about Maxwell’s equations and electric field strength, but I
will attempt to prove that a deeper level of understanding is possible. Before I
start, I will make one more related comment. My objection to describing an
electron as a confined photon (double loop or single loop) is that you do not
know what a photon is in terms of something more basic. Suppose that I
told you that a photon was an unbound electron that can propagates at the speed
of light. Would that help your understanding of either a photon or
electron? This illustrates my perception of the discussion. I think that
it is possible to describe both photons and electrons in terms of the properties
of spacetime. I am going to start with a simple step.
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="LINE-HEIGHT: 105%"><SPAN
style="COLOR: blue; LINE-HEIGHT: 105%"><o:p></o:p></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="LINE-HEIGHT: 105%"><SPAN
style="COLOR: blue; LINE-HEIGHT: 105%">Gravitational waves propagate in the
medium of spacetime. They propagate at the speed of light when observed
from any frame of reference. If it was possible to do a Michelson-Morley
experiment using gravitational waves, it would be impossible to detect any
motion of the earth relative to spacetime, which is the propagation medium for
the gravitational wave. Therefore, there is a similarity between
gravitational waves and electromagnetic waves in that 1) both appear to
propagate at the speed of light from all frames of reference, 2) both
transfer energy at the speed of light, 3) both are transverse waves, and 4) both
have polarization properties. <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="LINE-HEIGHT: 105%"><SPAN
style="COLOR: blue; LINE-HEIGHT: 105%"><o:p></o:p></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="LINE-HEIGHT: 105%"><SPAN
style="COLOR: blue; LINE-HEIGHT: 105%">Gravitational waves absolutely propagate
in the medium of spacetime. Photons are usually modeled as propagating through
the empty void of spacetime. However, this explanation has many unknowns:
1) Why do photons only propagate at the speed of light? 2) Why do photons have
wave properties? 3) Two entangled photons have the ability to communicate
instantly over large distances. How do they keep track of each other and
how do they communicate? 4) Why is there no amplitude term in the equation <I>E
= </I></SPAN><I><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Cambria Math",serif; COLOR: blue; LINE-HEIGHT: 105%'>ħω</SPAN></I><SPAN
style="COLOR: blue; LINE-HEIGHT: 105%">? <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="LINE-HEIGHT: 105%"><SPAN
style="COLOR: blue; LINE-HEIGHT: 105%"><o:p></o:p></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="LINE-HEIGHT: 105%"><SPAN
style="COLOR: blue; LINE-HEIGHT: 105%">I claim that all of these questions have
reasonable answers and the key to unlocking these answers comes from the simple
equation: <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="LINE-HEIGHT: 105%"><I><SPAN
style="COLOR: blue">Z<SUB>s</SUB> = c<SUP>3</SUP>/G</SPAN></I><SPAN
style="COLOR: blue"> where <I>Z</I><SUB>s</SUB> is the
impedance of spacetime<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="LINE-HEIGHT: 105%"><SPAN style="COLOR: blue">This
equation was first identified by D. G. Blair and published in the book: <U>The
Detection of Gravitational Waves</U>. I independently discovered this
equation about 2003. My reasoning is described on pages 4-16 to 4-18 of my
book available at:<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="LINE-HEIGHT: 105%"><A
href="http://onlyspacetime.com/">http://onlyspacetime.com/</A><U><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif; COLOR: blue; LINE-HEIGHT: 105%'><o:p></o:p></SPAN></U></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="LINE-HEIGHT: 105%"><SPAN style="COLOR: blue">Blair
only mentioned that <I>c<SUP>3</SUP>/G</I> was the impedance of spacetime. He
did not use this impedance of spacetime in equations published in any of his
books. I use <I>c<SUP>3</SUP>/G</I> everywhere because it is the key to
unlocking the properties of waves propagating in spacetime. For example, I
can derive <I>E = ħω</I> from equations of “dipole waves propagating in
spacetime” which incorporate <I>c<SUP>3</SUP>/G</I>. Everyone else in the group
claims to derive the correct energy of an electron by merely saying that <I>E =
ħω</I> and they choose to define <I>ω</I> as the Compton frequency of their
trapped photon – end of story. This is going in circles (no pun
intended). It is possible to describe both photons and electrons in terms
of the distortion of spacetime they produce. It is possible to unlock the
electrostatic and gravitational forces produced by electrons using
<I>c<SUP>3</SUP>/</I>G. This analysis unites the Newtonian gravitational
equation and the Coulomb law equation. This is not complete unification of
forces, but it is an important step. It also supports my other contentions.
</SPAN><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif; LINE-HEIGHT: 105%'><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="LINE-HEIGHT: 105%"><SPAN
style="COLOR: blue"><o:p></o:p></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="LINE-HEIGHT: 105%"><SPAN style="COLOR: blue">I derive
what I propose is a new constant of nature with units of meter/coulomb. I
show that all the electric and magnetic equations that I have tested give
reasonable answers when the unit of Coulomb is converted to a property of
spacetime. In particular, the impedance of free space <I>Z</I><SUB>o</SUB>
≈ 377 </SPAN><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Cambria Math",serif; COLOR: blue'>Ω</SPAN><SPAN
style="COLOR: blue"> converts to the impedance of spacetime
<I>c<SUP>3</SUP>/G</I> using this constant. Also the Coulomb force
constant 1/4π<I>ε</I><SUB>o</SUB> converts to Planck force
<I>c<SUP>4</SUP>/G</I>. This implies that photons are not energy packets
propagating <B>through</B> spacetime, photons are quantized waves propagating
<B>IN</B> the medium of spacetime. <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="LINE-HEIGHT: 105%"><SPAN
style="COLOR: blue"><o:p></o:p></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="LINE-HEIGHT: 105%"><SPAN style="COLOR: blue">Electrons
can appear to be confined photons because there is definitely a wave propagating
at the speed of light and confined to a volume with a radius related to the
electron’s Compton wavelength (either <I><S>λ</S></I><SUB>c</SUB>/2 or
<I><S>λ</S></I><SUB>c</SUB>). Therefore, I can see how scientists not
involved in the nuanced differences between confined photons and electrons can
claim that an electron is a “charged photon”. <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="LINE-HEIGHT: 105%"><SPAN
style="COLOR: blue"><o:p></o:p></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="LINE-HEIGHT: 105%"><SPAN style="COLOR: blue">I would
like someone to comment on the basic contention that spacetime has impedance of
<I>c<SUP>3</SUP>/G</I>. Once there is agreement on this point, I can go
step by step and <U>prove</U> that spacetime has energy density and eventually
reach a conclusion about the structure of both photons and electrons.
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="LINE-HEIGHT: 105%"><SPAN
style="COLOR: blue"><o:p></o:p></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="LINE-HEIGHT: 105%"><SPAN style="COLOR: blue">On a
different subject, John W. on Monday criticized one of my earlier emails in
which I summarized some of the things that I recalled from reading a large
amount of earlier emails. Since I am new to the group, I read a lot of
emails quickly attempting to get up to speed. In particular, I did not
attempt to associate a particular idea with a particular person. Therefore
when I summarized what I recalled, I said “</SPAN><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Cambria Math",serif; COLOR: black'>As I recall, the radius
decreases with 1/γ in one model and 1/γ<SUP>2</SUP> in another model.
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="LINE-HEIGHT: 105%"><SPAN
style="COLOR: blue"><o:p></o:p></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="LINE-HEIGHT: 105%"><B><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Cambria Math",serif; COLOR: blue'>John W</SPAN></B><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Cambria Math",serif; COLOR: blue'>. answered,
“</SPAN><SPAN style='FONT-FAMILY: "Cambria Math",serif; COLOR: #c00000'>No it is
not quite just as simple as this. Wondering where you "recall" this from. In
Martin and my old model the apparent size scales exactly with inverse
momentum</SPAN><SPAN style='FONT-FAMILY: "Cambria Math",serif; COLOR: blue'>”
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="LINE-HEIGHT: 105%"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Cambria Math",serif; COLOR: blue'> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="LINE-HEIGHT: 105%"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Cambria Math",serif; COLOR: blue'>I went back and checked
and I was correct. Richard said: “</SPAN><SPAN
style="COLOR: #c00000; LINE-HEIGHT: 105%">The small size of the electron in very
high energy electron scattering experiments can be partly explained by the
charged photon model of the electron, whose radius reduces as 1/(gamma^2)
combined with the energy quantum model of the charged photon, whose radius is
proportional to 1/gamma.</SPAN><SPAN
style="COLOR: red; LINE-HEIGHT: 105%">”<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="LINE-HEIGHT: 105%"><SPAN
style="COLOR: red; LINE-HEIGHT: 105%"><o:p></o:p></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="LINE-HEIGHT: 105%"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Cambria Math",serif; COLOR: blue'>I could go on rebut other
points, but I would rather move forward and see if I can elevate the discussion
to a higher level.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="LINE-HEIGHT: 105%"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Cambria Math",serif; COLOR: blue'><o:p></o:p></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal style="LINE-HEIGHT: 105%"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Cambria Math",serif; COLOR: blue'>John
M.</SPAN><o:p></o:p></P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN style="COLOR: blue"><o:p></o:p></SPAN> </P>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif; COLOR: black'><o:p></o:p></SPAN> </P>
<DIV>
<DIV
style="BORDER-TOP: #e1e1e1 1pt solid; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-TOP: 3pt; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; BORDER-LEFT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in">
<P class=MsoNormal><B><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif'>From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif'> General
[mailto:general-bounces+john=macken.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org]
<B>On Behalf Of </B>John Duffield<BR><B>Sent:</B> Wednesday, April 15, 2015 2:24
AM<BR><B>To:</B> David Mathes; Nature of Light and Particles - General
Discussion<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [General] Electron Size in a
Collision<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><o:p></o:p> </P>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif; COLOR: black'>David:<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif; COLOR: black'> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif; COLOR: black'>Interesting stuff. I
love all those hyperlinks. Including the link to the wavelet Wikipedia article,
which gives this depiction of a seismic wave. <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif; COLOR: black'> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif; COLOR: black'><IMG id=Picture_x0020_1
border=0 alt=Seismic_Wavelet src="cid:68D81539DB224207AB568B103DCE9506@HPlaptop"
width=280 height=499></SPAN><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif; COLOR: black'><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif; COLOR: black'> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif; COLOR: black'> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif; COLOR: black'>When a wave moves
through the ground, the ground waves. When a wave moves through the ocean, the
ocean waves. When a wave moves through space...<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif; COLOR: black'> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif; COLOR: black'>As for that cave, to me
if feels more like </SPAN><A
href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Journey_to_the_Center_of_the_Earth"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif'>Journey to the Centre of the
Earth</SPAN></A><SPAN style='FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif; COLOR: black'>,
only every now and then we see a sign that </SPAN><A
href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Displacement_current#History_and_interpretation"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif'>somebody has gone
before</SPAN></A><SPAN style='FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif; COLOR: black'>.
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif; COLOR: black'> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif; COLOR: black'>Regards
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif; COLOR: black'>John
D<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif; COLOR: black'> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Tahoma",sans-serif; COLOR: black'> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: whitesmoke"><B><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Tahoma",sans-serif; COLOR: black'>From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Tahoma",sans-serif; COLOR: black'>
</SPAN><A title=davidmathes8@yahoo.com
href="mailto:davidmathes8@yahoo.com"><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Tahoma",sans-serif'>David
Mathes</SPAN></A><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Tahoma",sans-serif; COLOR: black'>
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: whitesmoke"><B><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Tahoma",sans-serif; COLOR: black'>Sent:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Tahoma",sans-serif; COLOR: black'>
Tuesday, April 14, 2015 10:25 PM<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: whitesmoke"><B><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Tahoma",sans-serif; COLOR: black'>To:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Tahoma",sans-serif; COLOR: black'>
</SPAN><A title=general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org
href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Tahoma",sans-serif'>Nature of Light and
Particles - General Discussion</SPAN></A><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Tahoma",sans-serif; COLOR: black'>
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: whitesmoke"><B><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Tahoma",sans-serif; COLOR: black'>Subject:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Tahoma",sans-serif; COLOR: black'> Re:
[General] Electron Size in a Collision<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif; COLOR: black'> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1429030573083_29719>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'>Chip<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1429030573083_27211>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'><o:p></o:p></SPAN> </P></DIV>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1429030573083_27210>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'>There was a sidebar
between Andrew and I, part out of the speculative nature of what I suggested. So
the circulation is fine. Andrew and I decided to bring it into the mainstream
since we were able to focus, clarify and agree on a few
points.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1429030573083_27210>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1429030573083_27210>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'>I am a bit humbled by
the fine minds here with the attention to detail and depth of knowledge. As luck
would have it, despite various attempts at some of the finer universities, I'm
still not easily impaired by an education. Experience has taught me otherwise.
So before I was humiliated for wasting anyone's time, I thought it best to
quietly ask a question to the author only, someone I didn't know.
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1429030573083_27128>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'><o:p></o:p></SPAN> </P></DIV>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1429030573083_27128>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'>As you are aware,
Chip, my curiosity often exceeds what I know. While I can provide references
from various sources like AIP, APS, and other journals, I have found that wiki -
no matter how wrong it might be - is a useful starting place for my kids who
want to know a bit more (and Alissa will be studying physics next year.) So all
references are to wiki. Other references can be provided as well.
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1429030573083_27128>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1429030573083_27128>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'>While the
practitioners of mainstream physics have two feet solidly - within boundary
conditions known and unknown, of course - there is a need to go one step further
without losing one's balance. One can have a foot in the mainstream and foot on
the fringe. Some adventurous folks would say that staying within sight of
mainstream physics is ok too as long as one understands that any new or improved
theory at least can explain current theories as a smaller box within the
conjectured larger box. And some cast their fate well beyond that to the
heavenly language of pure mathematics to the point where they no longer see the
sanity of </SPAN><A id=yui_3_16_0_1_1429030573083_34987
href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wavelet"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif'>wavelets</SPAN></A><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'> but madness
of</SPAN><A id=yui_3_16_0_1_1429030573083_35261
href="http://www.stringwiki.org/wiki/String_Theory_Wiki"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif'> string theory</SPAN></A><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'>. (paging </SPAN><A
id=yui_3_16_0_1_1429030573083_39970
href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hatter"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif'>The Mad Hatte</SPAN></A><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'>r)<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1429030573083_27128>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1429030573083_27128>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'>To that end I have
explored elementary particles at the </SPAN><A
id=yui_3_16_0_1_1429030573083_33210
href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_Model"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif'>Standard Model</SPAN></A><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'> and </SPAN><A
id=yui_3_16_0_1_1429030573083_33465
href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supersymmetry"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif'>SUSY</SPAN></A><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'> level. My interest
lies not in the </SPAN><A id=yui_3_16_0_1_1429030573083_33646
href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symmetry"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif'>symmetry </SPAN></A><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'>of physics but the
</SPAN><A id=yui_3_16_0_1_1429030573083_33895
href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asymmetry"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif'>asymmetries</SPAN></A><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'> and even the
</SPAN><A id=yui_3_16_0_1_1429030573083_34199
href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_unsolved_problems_in_physics"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif'>unexplained</SPAN></A><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'> almost symmetries.
</SPAN><A id=yui_3_16_0_1_1429030573083_34519
href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CP_violation"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif'>CPT violations</SPAN></A><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'> are a sign the
Standard Model is like a pair of nice jeans, good enough to but not a complete
outfit for all occasions. SUSY needs to be kept on the score card. Perhaps the
theory will pan out. <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1429030573083_27128>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1429030573083_27128>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'>Such is the nature of
physics that even with a good </SPAN><A id=yui_3_16_0_1_1429030573083_34705
href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_gravity"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif'>quantum gravity
theory</SPAN></A><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'> the modelers of
photons and electrons are in this no man's land in between the known and the
knowable where theories and experiments of the past haunt us similar to the
adventure game where we have entered a colossal pirate's cave with "...<I
id=yui_3_16_0_1_1429030573083_29536>a maze of twisty little passages, all
alike</I>." As we explore these passages we find new clues that are variants on
the theme phrase such as "little maze of twisting passages, all different" or
twisty little maze of passage, all different." <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1429030573083_27128>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1429030573083_27128>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'>Even a thorough
thrashing using tools like multidimensional </SPAN><A
id=yui_3_16_0_1_1429030573083_36427
href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monte_Carlo_method"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif'>Monte Carlo methods of
analysis</SPAN></A><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'> does not yield an
answer to a simple question of "What are photons."<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1429030573083_27128>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1429030573083_27128>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'>So when my friend,
Andrew popped off with 3 possibilities on </SPAN><A
id=yui_3_16_0_1_1429030573083_38106
href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Boundary_conditions"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif'>boundary</SPAN></A><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'> determination, I
suggested a fourth cause privately I wasn't sure myself and did not want to make
enemies with someone I didn't know if I was misunderstanding what was
said.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1429030573083_27128>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1429030573083_27128>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'>Over the past couple
of days, the mainstream focused on determining that there are multiple
boundaries types and in some cases, no man's land where the boundary is
time-dependent, my ramblings led us in the direction of the</SPAN><A
id=yui_3_16_0_1_1429030573083_38731
href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dipole"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif'> virtual dipole moment
</SPAN></A><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'>created by moving a
particle or even just a </SPAN><A id=yui_3_16_0_1_1429030573083_38414
href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif'>quanta</SPAN></A><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'>. Knowing the
limitations and limits is usually helpful. <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1429030573083_27128>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1429030573083_27128>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'>As noted by the
attachments, the focus of our brief sidebar was to address issues pertaining to
the dipole created by a moving particle. While we didn't dig the issues of
</SPAN><A id=yui_3_16_0_1_1429030573083_39362
href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frame_of_reference"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif'>reference frames</SPAN></A><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'> certainly
acceleration and</SPAN><A id=yui_3_16_0_1_1429030573083_39162
href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerk_(physics)"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif'> jerk/jolt</SPAN></A><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'> movements create
issues beyond the use and abuse of </SPAN><A id=yui_3_16_0_1_1429030573083_37873
href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equivalence_principle"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif'>Einstein's
equivalence</SPAN></A><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'> We ignored the
deeper discussion of </SPAN><A id=yui_3_16_0_1_1429030573083_40239
href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy%E2%80%93momentum_relation"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif'>energy-momentum</SPAN></A><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'> in 4D and 5D
(</SPAN><A id=yui_3_16_0_1_1429030573083_40497
href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_density"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif'>energy density</SPAN></A><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'>) theories. We
sidestepped the issues of </SPAN><A id=yui_3_16_0_1_1429030573083_40705
href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wave%E2%80%93particle_duality"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif'>particle-wave</SPAN></A><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'>.
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1429030573083_27128>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1429030573083_27128>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'>Perhaps it was a minor
point to determine the types of </SPAN><A id=yui_3_16_0_1_1429030573083_37671
href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lennard-Jones_potential"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif'>zero point potential
</SPAN></A><SPAN style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'>here
there is a balance of two forces but this goes to a wide-ranging series of
topics if one does not know what forces or boundaries there are, one may have a
challenging time creating or removing additional boundary conditions. </SPAN><A
id=yui_3_16_0_1_1429030573083_31387
href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aharonov%E2%80%93Bohm_effect"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif'>Aharonov-Bohm </SPAN></A><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'>for
example.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1429030573083_27128>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1429030573083_27128>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'>Sometimes we are
simply faced with Witt's end where "Passages lead off in *all* directions from
here."<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1429030573083_27128>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1429030573083_27128>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'>So feel free to
comment on any aspect of the ramblings. <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1429030573083_27128>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1429030573083_27128>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'>Best<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1429030573083_27128>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1429030573083_27128>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'>David<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1429030573083_27128>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1429030573083_27128>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1429030573083_27128>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'>ref: </SPAN><A
id=yui_3_16_0_1_1429030573083_30998
href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colossal_Cave_Adventure"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif'>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colossal_Cave_Adventure</SPAN></A><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1429030573083_27128>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE id=yui_3_16_0_1_1429030573083_26985
style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt; BORDER-TOP: medium none; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 4pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 3.75pt; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 1.5pt solid; MARGIN-TOP: 3.75pt; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in">
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1429030573083_27087>
<DIV class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white; TEXT-ALIGN: center"
align=center><SPAN style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'>
<HR align=center SIZE=1 width="100%">
</SPAN></DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><B><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Arial",sans-serif; COLOR: black'>From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Arial",sans-serif; COLOR: black'> Chip
Akins <</SPAN><A href="mailto:chipakins@gmail.com"><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Arial",sans-serif'>chipakins@gmail.com</SPAN></A><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Arial",sans-serif; COLOR: black'>><BR><B>To:</B>
'Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion' <</SPAN><A
href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Arial",sans-serif'>general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</SPAN></A><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Arial",sans-serif; COLOR: black'>>
<BR><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, April 14, 2015 12:41 PM<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re:
[General] Electron Size in a Collision</SPAN><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1429030573083_26979>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'>A question regarding
email circulation.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1429030573083_27221>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1429030573083_27226>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'>It has come to my
attention that I am not getting some of the comments from various
participants. Specifically I do not receive comments from David Mathes
in this thread. Is there a known reason this might be happening?
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1429030573083_27828>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1429030573083_27830>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'>David has been a
continual inspiration to me over the years we have known each other and I
would prefer not to miss his contributions of
possible.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1429030573083_27831>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1429030573083_28253>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'>Chip<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1429030573083_30026>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1429030573083_27214>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><B><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif; COLOR: black'>From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif; COLOR: black'>
General [</SPAN><A
href="mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif'>mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</SPAN></A><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 11pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Calibri",sans-serif; COLOR: black'>]
<B>On Behalf Of </B>Andrew Meulenberg<BR><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, April 14, 2015
1:50 PM<BR><B>To:</B> David Mathes; Nature of Light and Particles - General
Discussion; Andrew Meulenberg<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [General] Electron Size
in a Collision</SPAN><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1429030573083_27220>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1429030573083_27219>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1429030573083_27218>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1429030573083_27217>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1429030573083_27216>
<DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt">
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'>Dear
David,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1429030573083_27215 style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt">
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'>I have attached the
draft of a paper of mine that AJP rejected in 9 minutes back in Dec. 2012. It
describes the change in mass as the electron-positron pair approach and
annihilate. This is an example of how the Coulomb potential energy and mass
are equivalent. <BR><BR>For self-attractive, equal-mass, charges, The work
done to accelerate the leptons comes from their charge (their mass) and goes
into bound EM radiation (the relativistic mass increase). The figure on p 12
shows how the decrease in potential-dependent mass as they approach exactly
balances the increase in relativistic mass so that the 'DC' charge and mass of
the leptons is 'gradually' (not quantum mechanically) converted into AC EM
fields (ultimately photons).<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1429030573083_27264 style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt">
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'>Based on this paper,
I would extrapolate the results to 3 cases (I would need to think them thru
further):<BR><BR>1. In the quark model a highly relativistic lepton
triplet has been pushed close enough together to convert almost of their
energy into EM field (perhaps with the highest energy density in the present
universe). The potential-dependent mass and charge is reduced to some
resonant-state level with the net fractional
charge.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1429030573083_27336 style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt">
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'>2. In the case
of a very-energetic electron incident on a nucleus, the electron does little
work and therefore does not lose potential-dependent mass and charge. Such an
electron is 'pancaked' in the direction of motion and has a much higher
central energy density than when at rest. (Its average size decreases.) As it
speeds up (incrementally, because it is already close to c) on its approach,
its relativistic EM mass increases further. This effect would be unnoticeable
because the increase is such a small percentage of its initial
energy.<BR><BR>3. In the case of a very-energetic electron colliding
with another such, the electrons do work on each other; therefore, in slowing
down, they gain potential-dependent mass and charge (they can create more
lepton pairs?). As they slow down in doing this work, their relativistic-EM
mass decreases and their 'core' begins to expand back toward its rest
size.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1429030573083_28250 style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt">
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'>Details still need
to be worked out. Nevertheless, I think that all of the forces (strong, weak,
EM, and gravitation) can be explained in this
process.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1429030573083_28251>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'>Andrew<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1429030573083_28252>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'>On Tue, Apr 14, 2015
at 10:20 PM, David Mathes <</SPAN><A href="mailto:davidmathes8@yahoo.com"
target=_blank><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif'>davidmathes8@yahoo.com</SPAN></A><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE id=yui_3_16_0_1_1429030573083_27289
style="BORDER-TOP: medium none; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 6pt; MARGIN: 5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt; BORDER-LEFT: #cccccc 1pt solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in">
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'>Andrew<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1429030573083_30038>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1429030573083_30037>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1429030573083_30036>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1429030573083_30035>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'>At the photon and
electron level, the L-J potential is a mathematical physics approach to at
least satisfy one element of a Monte Carlo analysis to discern the limit,
and if possible, eliminate the balance of forces argument. After all, the
photon is considered it's own
anti-particle.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1429030573083_30033>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1429030573083_30032>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1429030573083_30031>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1429030573083_30030>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1429030573083_27296>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1429030573083_27295>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'>The dynamic dipole
as a rotating dipole is based on the idea that a moving charge creates a
virtual particle which may include the particle wake itself. There may
be other modes beyond rotating dipole...this depends on the structure of the
photon and electron as well as it's wake.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1429030573083_30029>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1429030573083_30028>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'>The rotating
dipole may be totally real where there are two quanta, but I was speaking of
a single quanta. The concept of electronic holes has produced major advances
in electronics. So one has to ask if every elementary particle has a hole
counterpart, and at least under what circumstances it might or might not. So
when a single particle is moving quickly perhaps in relativistic velocities
or changes velocity quickly during acceleration, or perhaps even during
jerk, then frame dragging may induce a virtual particle condition akin to a
dipole traversing the path.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'>As I barely
grasped the fractional charge explanation I certainly would like to hear
more on that since I believe SPIE is interested in "charged photon" theory
(Gauthier 2015) and how this might apply to constructing charge particles
which includes both lepton and quark families, and perhaps even
Higgs.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'>Best<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1429030573083_30465>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1429030573083_30464>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'>David<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1429030573083_30463>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1429030573083_30462>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1429030573083_30461>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE id=yui_3_16_0_1_1429030573083_27286
style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt; BORDER-TOP: medium none; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 4pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 3.75pt; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 1.5pt solid; MARGIN-TOP: 3.75pt; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in">
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1429030573083_30459>
<DIV class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white; TEXT-ALIGN: center"
align=center><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'>
<HR align=center SIZE=1 width="100%">
</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1429030573083_30460>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><B><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Arial",sans-serif; COLOR: black'>From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Arial",sans-serif; COLOR: black'>
Andrew Meulenberg <</SPAN><A href="mailto:mules333@gmail.com"
target=_blank><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Arial",sans-serif'>mules333@gmail.com</SPAN></A><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Arial",sans-serif; COLOR: black'>><BR><B>To:</B>
David Mathes <</SPAN><A href="mailto:davidmathes8@yahoo.com"
target=_blank><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Arial",sans-serif'>davidmathes8@yahoo.com</SPAN></A><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Arial",sans-serif; COLOR: black'>>;
Andrew Meulenberg <</SPAN><A href="mailto:mules333@gmail.com"
target=_blank><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Arial",sans-serif'>mules333@gmail.com</SPAN></A><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Arial",sans-serif; COLOR: black'>>
<BR><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, April 14, 2015 1:48 AM</SPAN><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1429030573083_30458>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1429030573083_30457>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1429030573083_30456>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Arial",sans-serif; COLOR: black'><BR><B>Subject:</B>
Re: [General] Electron Size in a Collision</SPAN><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt">
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'>Dear
David,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt">
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'>Thank you for
your musings. They have raised issues that I have not addressed, but need
to.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt">
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'>While I do not
believe that the L-J potential can pertain to the structure of the
electron, it might be applicable, in some form, to the quarks. On the
other hand, the question of balance between the repulsive and attractive
forces within the electron could be addressed in a similar manner.
However, I cannot do it w/o resorting to
4-D.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt">
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'>On my initial
reading of your comments, I rejected the rotating-dipole concept. I
realize now that was a mistake. The source photon certainly has dipoles
built in, and the resultant lepton pair is a dipole; therefore it should
be expected that, in the conversion from oscillating dipoles to vortex
motion, the dipole nature should be dynamic. Nevertheless, just as the
standing-wave charge-dipole oscillations of a photon are in time, rather
than space, so their 'rectification' into the stable electron-positron
pair probably separates them in time as well as in
space.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt">
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'>I believe that
the fractional charge on the quarks are related to the proximity of the
constituent electrons and positrons. If the quark is a lepton triplet,
then they must be very close together and highly relativistic. As such,
their individual DC charges are converted to bound AC fields (Gluons?).
This goes way beyond the photon-to-electron concept of present concern;
but, it all fits.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'>Andrew<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'>________________________________<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1429030573083_30466>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'>On Tue, Apr 14,
2015 at 10:01 AM, David Mathes <</SPAN><A
href="mailto:davidmathes8@yahoo.com" target=_blank><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif'>davidmathes8@yahoo.com</SPAN></A><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE id=yui_3_16_0_1_1429030573083_27269
style="BORDER-TOP: medium none; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 6pt; MARGIN: 5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt; BORDER-LEFT: #cccccc 1pt solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in">
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'>Andrew<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'>In the
simplest form, let me explain my brain fart...based on Lenard-Jones
potential...<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'>for an
isolated particle, charged or not, there is a balance of positive
potential and negative potential for charge.
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'>While LJ12
applies for neutral particles at the atom or molecular level, in
principle this dipole may also apply and be useful at the elementary
particle level, at least as a starting point. This conjecture may apply
to elementary particles such as electrons and quarks as well as complex
particles such as protons and
neutrons.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1429030573083_27266>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1429030573083_27265>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'>The rest of
the email are musings. <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'>David<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'>P.S. The boson
family is problematic. The photon and the eight gluons present a
challenge with modeling. <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'>I think there
is great confusion on the radius of the electron and other elementary
particles. Today's discussion Sunday/Monday April 12/13) was making
process on identifying the various radii. So I'm pretty sure this issue
will resolve itself shortly. So, my email of last week is a bit
outdated, but my concern was that when we get into topological models of
electrons with one loop or two, there is the need to identify what types
of radii there may per particle per measurement. If various theories
propose a quanta within a radius making these loops, then we need to
determine if the loops are truly circular orbital instead of elliptical,
and also if we are looking at a sub elementary quanta that exhibits
classical, relativistic or quantum behavior, and perhaps even address
transluminal/superluminal issues.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1429030573083_27293>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1429030573083_27292>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'>I was
addressing the single elementary particle level in The Standard Model
where some authors suggest that each of the individual elementary
particles have a balance of forces, attractive, the other repulsive.
Near and far field forces need to be distinguished as well. Furthermore,
we need to understand the role of measurement in determining these
forces, and what boundary conditions may be applied to discern the right
answer(s). <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1429030573083_36730>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1429030573083_36729 style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt">
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'>One could
easily use the neutron. However, protons, electrons and even massless
particles like photons are often defined by a balance of forces where
the net field goes to zero. <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'>Net field = 0
= f(ext) + (-f(int))<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'>So it seems to
me that any loop model will need to be evaluated as a rotating
dipole.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1429030573083_36728>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1429030573083_36727>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'>In the
proposed neutron model, we know that during decay a neutron can produce
a proton, electron and some remnants of both mass and energy.
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1429030573083_36726>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1429030573083_36725>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'>When one gets
to the point of a neutron decay, the current topological models of
electron seem to ignore the challenge of a quark with 1/3 the
charge. When any attempt to apply what is learned from the
electron is made to a proton, there is a need for quark model.
However, given that a proton is comprised of 3 quarks and their
attendant gluons, making the leap from electron to proton requires
models for both known quarks (6 plus variants) and gluons (8 known).
While the antiparticle is expected to be simple, the gluons become an
issue. <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'>In the case of
the electron, there may be a need to exclude other charged particles
especially from the quark family. To my knowledge quark internals or
topology has not been detailed or even investigated. Even speculation is
rather thin on what the quark structure looks
like.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1429030573083_36723>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1429030573083_36722>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'>So when we
speak of photon - electron modeling, we probably should be addressing
photon/electron/quark modeling, and in doing so, also take on neutrinos
and gluons. While this completes the picture for most charged particles,
the remaining boson and Higgs particles will have to wait since
uncharged particles may prove even more challenging since they cannot be
measured in a Penning Trap as charged particles and ions
can.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'>Mesoscopic
physics gives us a system level view of a variety of forces beyond just
charge. Such a view will complicate the discussion intended by SPIE.
However, any internals of an Elementary Particle will need to address
externals as well beyond photon and electron to the proton and
neutron.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'>The physics of
the photon needs a bit deeper explanation as well. Is the dipole
modeling sufficient or do we need to model using cross polarized photons
and hidden variables from quarks such as spacetime impedance? Note that
there are a number of different impedances to choose
from.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 13.5pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'>How
does one create 1/3 charge?</SPAN><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1429030573083_36721>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1429030573083_36720>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'>DM<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1429030573083_36719>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1429030573083_36718>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'>References<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1429030573083_36717>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1429030573083_36716>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1429030573083_36715>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1429030573083_36714>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1429030573083_36713>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1429030573083_36712>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1429030573083_36711>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'>2009 Penning
Trap , 78 pages<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1429030573083_36706>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1429030573083_36705>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1429030573083_36704>
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<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1429030573083_36710>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1429030573083_36709>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><B><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "TimesNewRomanPS",serif; COLOR: black'>Penning traps
as a versatile tool for precise experiments in fundamental physics
</SPAN></B><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1429030573083_36702>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1429030573083_36701>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1429030573083_36700>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1429030573083_36699>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1429030573083_36698>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "TimesNewRomanPSMT",serif; COLOR: black'>K. Blaum,
Yu.N. Novikov and G. Werth</SPAN><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1429030573083_36697>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1429030573083_36696>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><A
href="http://arxiv.org/pdf/0909.1095.pdf" target=_blank><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif'>http://arxiv.org/pdf/0909.1095.pdf</SPAN></A><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'>In Above paper
ref [6]1986 Penning Trap, 77
pages<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'>Geonium
theory: Physics of a Single Electron or Ion in a Penning
Trap<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'>Brown,
Gabrielse<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><A
href="http://gabrielse.physics.harvard.edu/gabrielse/papers/1986/Review.pdf"
target=_blank><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif'>http://gabrielse.physics.harvard.edu/gabrielse/papers/1986/Review.pdf</SPAN></A><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><B><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "TimesNewRomanPS",serif; COLOR: black'>On the Radius
of the Neutron, Proton, Electron and the Atomic Nucleus </SPAN></B><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "TimesNewRomanPSMT",serif; COLOR: black'>Sha
YinYue</SPAN><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><A
href="http://www.gsjournal.net/old/physics/yue.pdf" target=_blank><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "TimesNewRomanPSMT",serif'>http://www.gsjournal.net/old/physics/yue.pdf</SPAN></A><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "TimesNewRomanPSMT",serif; COLOR: black'> </SPAN><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1429030573083_30087>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'>Molecular
superposition<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><A
href="http://www.wiley.com/legacy/wileychi/ecc/samples/sample01.pdf"
target=_blank><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif'>http://www.wiley.com/legacy/wileychi/ecc/samples/sample01.pdf</SPAN></A><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1429030573083_30086>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1429030573083_30085>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1429030573083_30084>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1429030573083_30083>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1429030573083_30082>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><B><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Times",serif; COLOR: black'>Atoms in Molecules
Richard F. W. Bader </SPAN></B><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><A
href="http://www.wiley.com/legacy/wileychi/ecc/samples/sample02.pdf"
target=_blank><B><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Times",serif'>http://www.wiley.com/legacy/wileychi/ecc/samples/sample02.pdf</SPAN></B></A><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
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<DIV>
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<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><B><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Times",serif; COLOR: black'>Photodissociation
Dynamics Reinhard Schinke</SPAN></B><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><A
href="http://www.wiley.com/legacy/wileychi/ecc/samples/sample03.pdf"
target=_blank><B><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Times",serif'>http://www.wiley.com/legacy/wileychi/ecc/samples/sample03.pdf</SPAN></B></A><B><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Times",serif; COLOR: black'> </SPAN></B><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><B><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Times",serif; COLOR: black'>Combined Quantum
Mechanical and Molecular Mechanical Potentials</SPAN></B><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><B><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Times",serif; COLOR: black'>Patricia Amara and
Martin J. Field </SPAN></B><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><A
href="http://www.wiley.com/legacy/wileychi/ecc/samples/sample04.pdf"
target=_blank><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif'>http://www.wiley.com/legacy/wileychi/ecc/samples/sample04.pdf</SPAN></A><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE id=yui_3_16_0_1_1429030573083_30116
style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt; BORDER-TOP: medium none; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 4pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 3.75pt; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 1.5pt solid; MARGIN-TOP: 3.75pt; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in">
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<HR align=center SIZE=1 width="100%">
</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><B><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Arial",sans-serif; COLOR: black'>From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Arial",sans-serif; COLOR: black'>
Andrew Meulenberg <</SPAN><A href="mailto:mules333@gmail.com"
target=_blank><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Arial",sans-serif'>mules333@gmail.com</SPAN></A><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Arial",sans-serif; COLOR: black'>><BR><B>To:</B>
David Mathes <</SPAN><A href="mailto:davidmathes8@yahoo.com"
target=_blank><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Arial",sans-serif'>davidmathes8@yahoo.com</SPAN></A><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Arial",sans-serif; COLOR: black'>>;
Andrew Meulenberg <</SPAN><A href="mailto:mules333@gmail.com"
target=_blank><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Arial",sans-serif'>mules333@gmail.com</SPAN></A><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Arial",sans-serif; COLOR: black'>>
<BR><B>Sent:</B> Monday, April 13, 2015 7:11 PM</SPAN><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'><BR><B>Subject:</B>
Re: [General] Electron Size in a
Collision<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1429030573083_36686>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1429030573083_36688>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1429030573083_36687 style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt">
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'>Dear
David,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1429030573083_36692 style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt">
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'>Are you
referring to the point outside a neutron where the net field goes to
zero? Or are you talking about the point between two like charges
where there is no net force on a 3rd charge? Could you be more
specific? I think that I may be missing
something.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1429030573083_36694>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'>Andrew<BR>______________________<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt">
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'>On Fri, Apr
10, 2015 at 9:26 AM, David Mathes <</SPAN><A
href="mailto:davidmathes8@yahoo.com" target=_blank><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif'>davidmathes8@yahoo.com</SPAN></A><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE id=yui_3_16_0_1_1429030573083_30103
style="BORDER-TOP: medium none; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 6pt; MARGIN: 5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt; BORDER-LEFT: #cccccc 1pt solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in">
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'>Andrew<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1429030573083_36685>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1429030573083_36684>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'>There is a
fourth definition. That is the neutral point between attractive and
repulsive forces.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'>David<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE id=yui_3_16_0_1_1429030573083_30100
style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 5pt; BORDER-TOP: medium none; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 4pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 3.75pt; BORDER-LEFT: #1010ff 1.5pt solid; MARGIN-TOP: 3.75pt; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in">
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1429030573083_36681>
<DIV class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white; TEXT-ALIGN: center"
align=center><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'>
<HR align=center SIZE=1 width="100%">
</SPAN></DIV>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1429030573083_36680>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><B><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Arial",sans-serif; COLOR: black'>From:</SPAN></B><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Arial",sans-serif; COLOR: black'>
Andrew Meulenberg <</SPAN><A
id=yui_3_16_0_1_1429030573083_36682
href="mailto:mules333@gmail.com" target=_blank><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Arial",sans-serif'>mules333@gmail.com</SPAN></A><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Arial",sans-serif; COLOR: black'>><BR><B>To:</B>
Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion <</SPAN><A
href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"
target=_blank><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Arial",sans-serif'>general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</SPAN></A><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Arial",sans-serif; COLOR: black'>>;
Andrew Meulenberg <</SPAN><A href="mailto:mules333@gmail.com"
target=_blank><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Arial",sans-serif'>mules333@gmail.com</SPAN></A><SPAN
style='FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Arial",sans-serif; COLOR: black'>>
<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, April 9, 2015 8:33
PM<BR><B>Subject:</B> Re: [General] Electron Size in a
Collision</SPAN><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'><o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt">
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'>Dear
John M.,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1429030573083_36678>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'>I
haven't had time yet to read your works. I need to, before I
comment on your story below. However, you have raised a topic that
is generally ignored, or improperly treated - the size of an
electron. Could you define what you mean by that? I use 3 possible
definitions for different
applications.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<OL id=yui_3_16_0_1_1429030573083_30091 type=1>
<LI class=MsoNormal
style="BACKGROUND: white; COLOR: black; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto; mso-list: l1 level1 lfo3"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif'>QM says that the
bound electron size is that of the probability distribution of
its orbit (in terms of the Bohr radius). I accept this as a time
average that is used in screening (and in other) calculations.
<o:p></o:p></SPAN>
<LI class=MsoNormal
style="BACKGROUND: white; COLOR: black; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto; mso-list: l1 level1 lfo3"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif'>Compton wavelength
gives a radius (~ 386 fm?) that I assume includes ~99% of its
electrostatic potential in free space. This is important in
looking at the EM (and in other?) interactions. This does not
include the AC EM potential added by relativistic motion.
<o:p></o:p></SPAN>
<LI id=yui_3_16_0_1_1429030573083_30090 class=MsoNormal
style="BACKGROUND: white; COLOR: black; mso-margin-top-alt: auto; mso-margin-bottom-alt: auto; mso-list: l1 level1 lfo3"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif'>Classical radius
(~2.8fm) gives the energy density distribution (i.e., ~99% of
its rest mass energy is within this radius?). This is critical
in nuclear interactions involving electrons (and perhaps in the
anomalous solution of the Dirac
equations).<o:p></o:p></SPAN></LI></OL>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1429030573083_36676>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1429030573083_36675
style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt">
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'>Could
you counter, or comment on, these definitions? They have a major
impact on the discussion of the photonic-electron concept. If you
have already covered this topic in one of your papers, could you
'point' it out to us.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt">
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'>Thx,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'>Andrew<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt">
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'>________________________________<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'>On Thu,
Apr 9, 2015 at 10:41 PM, John Macken <</SPAN><A
href="mailto:john@macken.com" target=_blank><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif'>john@macken.com</SPAN></A><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE id=yui_3_16_0_1_1429030573083_36669
style="BORDER-TOP: medium none; BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; PADDING-LEFT: 6pt; MARGIN: 5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt; BORDER-LEFT: #cccccc 1pt solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in">
<DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt">
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'>Vivian
and All,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'>We all
agree that collision experiments indicate that the size of an
electron is smaller than the resolution of the collision
experiment. Since some experiments have been done at about
50 GeV, this means that the electron appears to be smaller than
about 10<SUP>-18</SUP> m. We have different models of an
electron and they have different explanations for how an
electron can appear to be a point particle. In a previous
post you say, “I prefer the answers given by John W, Richard G,
myself and others that the radius of an electron decreases with
its energy, giving it a point like property as it travels at
sufficiently high velocity.” I will address this
point. You seem to be saying that a fundamental particle
changes its radius in X, Y and Z dimensions as it
propagates. As I recall, the radius decreases with 1/γ in
one model and 1/γ<SUP>2</SUP> in another model. Also as I
recall the decrease in radius is accompanied by an increase in
the electron’s Compton frequency in some models. Perhaps I
do not understand this concept correctly, but the change in
radius and frequency appears to violate the covariance of
physical laws. All frames of reference should have the
same physical laws. Here is the problem. In order
for the laws of physics to be the same in all frames of
reference, Lorentz transformations have to hold between
different frames of reference. The changes you propose do not
correspond to Lorentz transformations.
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1429030573083_36665>
<DIV id=yui_3_16_0_1_1429030573083_36664>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'>Suppose
that we designate the Z axis as the direction of propagation
between two frames of reference. Then the expectation is that an
observer in frame A would perceive that an electron in frame B
retains its original radius in the X and Y dimensions while the
Z axis dimension decreases by r = r<SUB>o</SUB>/γ. Also,
the rate of time in frame B appears to slows down by 1/γ as seen
from frame A. The Compton frequency can be considered a
clock beat. Therefore the observer in frame A should
perceive that the electron’s Compton frequency in frame B has
slowed down rather than speed up. If the changes you
propose take place, then an observer in frame B would perceive
that an electron has different properties than the properties
observed in frame A. This would be a violation of the
basic assumption of invariance in spacial
relativity.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'>Perhaps,
the most important point is that the changes that you propose do
not even achieve the goal of making the electron appear to be a
point particle in a collision. Here is the
reasoning. Suppose that we have two electrons accelerated
to 50 GeV and propagating in opposite directions in an
accelerator. I am in the acceleration frame of reference
and the electrons will collide in front of me. If the
collision is head-on, both electrons momentarily are stopped in
my frame of reference at the moment of closest approach.
Therefore at that moment neither electron is moving relative to
me. They might have been small when they were moving, but
when they have stopped in the collision, in your model they
should have their original radius equal which you believe to be
½ the reduced Compton wavelength. Since the scattering is
taking place in my frame of reference, the scattering should
indicate this full size.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'>Contrast
that to my model. I say that the electron appears to be
the same size and have the same Compton frequency when viewed as
a “stationary” electron in any frame of reference. This
means that Lorentz transformations hold between frames. An
electron in frame B retains the same radius in the X and Y
dimensions but appears to shrink in the Z direction. Also
the Compton frequency appears slower when observed from frame
A. <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'>However,
the important point is not the size during propagation, but the
size during collision. In my model, the size of each
electron physically decreases when the two electrons collide and
momentarily are stopped in my frame of reference. The
kinetic energy carried by each electron has been converted to
the internal energy of the waves that make up the two
electrons. At the moment of collision, the wave amplitude
increases and wave frequency increases. The Compton
wavelength decreases, therefore <B>the radius decreases</B> when
the colliding electrons are momentarily stopped. If the
collision is at 50 GeV then γ = 100,000 and the radius decreases
by this factor. The calculations are done in the
“foundation” paper, in section 4.5, titled Point Particle Test.
This section of the paper concludes that the reason that
electrons appear to be point particles is that “It is a classic
case of the experiment distorting the property being measured
and invalidating the measurement”.
<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'>I also
have other arguments supporting my electron size and
characteristics, but this is enough for one
post.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'>John
M.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt">
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt">
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'> <o:p></o:p></SPAN></P></DIV>
<DIV>
<P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt; BACKGROUND: white"><SPAN
style='FONT-FAMILY: "Helvetica",sans-serif; COLOR: black'><o:p></o:p></SPAN> </P></DIV>
<DIV id=yqtfd13593>
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