<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=Windows-1252">
</head>
<body dir="auto">
<blockquote type="cite"><font color="#000000"><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">Dear Andrew,</span></font></blockquote>
<div><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">It is a monumental task to keep track of everything, i have the same problem, but perhaps there are even more things that nobody seems to have mentioned, but can still also be found in a paper published
in Annales de la fondation Louis de Broglie in 1997. ;-)</span></div>
<div><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">Every fundamental particle must effectively be a single-mode cavity both containing and resulting from its own energy. It is three dimensional by diffraction of the almost infinite wavetrain that
is biting its own tail in a single wavelength (mono mode) cavity. Well, actually, two polarization modes are allowed, giving rise to two spin states of the object. It is plausible, but remains to be proven rigorously, that a double loop gives the right equipartition
of spin1/2 , simultaneous in all directions if the basic circulation is spin 1. The latter is what john and i put in: the photon, hence the title: Is the electron a photon with toroidal topology?</span></div>
<div><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><br>
</span></div>
<div><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">Cheers, Martin<br>
<br>
Verstuurd vanaf mijn iPhone</span></div>
<div><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><br>
</span><font color="#000000"><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">Op 27 apr. 2015 om 21:00 heeft Andrew Meulenberg <<a href="mailto:mules333@gmail.com">mules333@gmail.com</a>> het volgende geschreven:<br>
<br>
</span></font></div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div>
<div><font color="#000000"><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">Dear Richard,<br>
<br>
</span></font></div>
<font color="#000000"><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">Something that no one seems to have mentioned/noticed is that the bound photon, as a stationary electron, should have a spherical rather than a circular path. Only in this manner
can it have angular momentum in all and any directions. Also, when moving, even slowly, relativistic effects will 'flatten' the sphere in the direction of motion. This flattening will raise the energy, increase the inertia, and introduce the <b>E</b>-field
distortions called magnetic field, <b>B</b>.<br>
<br>
</span></font></div>
<font color="#000000"><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">The path distortion from the spherical with motion gives a helical path for some portion of the photon length. The path is much more complicated for elements of the path that are
not normal to the direction of motion. The photon itself may be a standing wave moving at c. If so, elements of the wave move faster than c and later move slower than c. In the electron, the same thing may happen. Only the average velocity is limited to c.
Since the photon is a wave, the phase velocity can greatly exceed c, before the electron velocity becomes relativistic.<br>
<br>
</span></font></div>
<font color="#000000"><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">Andrew<br>
__________________________________<br>
</span></font>
<div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><font color="#000000"><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><br>
</span></font>
<div class="gmail_quote"><font color="#000000"><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">On Mon, Apr 27, 2015 at 7:02 PM, Richard Gauthier <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:richgauthier@gmail.com" target="_blank">richgauthier@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
</span></font>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
<div style="word-wrap: break-word;">
<div><font color="#000000"><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">Andrew and all,</span></font></div>
<div><font color="#000000"><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"> Here’s a design challenge: design a single or double-looped circulating charged photon (either of spin 1 or spin 1/2) that models an electron and whose electric field satisfies
Gauss’ law and generates the electron’s charge -e from its electric field, while its magnetic field generates the electron’s magnetic moment (or at least the Bohr magneton ehbar/2m). The charged photon should travel at light speed and obey the relations E=hf
and p=h/lambda. It should move in a circular path when the electron is at rest and in a helical path when the electron moves at non-relativistic or relativistic velocities, and should continue to generate the charge -e from Gauss’ law while the electron is
in motion. Indicate what modification(s) if any of Maxwell’s equations are necessary to do this (they should be as few as possible, if any).</span></font></div>
<div><font color="#000000"><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"> Richard</span></font></div>
<font color="#000000"><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><br>
</span></font>
<div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<div class="h5">
<div><font color="#000000"><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">On Apr 26, 2015, at 9:04 AM, Andrew Meulenberg <<a href="mailto:mules333@gmail.com" target="_blank">mules333@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</span></font></div>
<font color="#000000"><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><br>
</span></font></div>
</div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div class="h5">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div><font color="#000000"><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"> Dear All,<br>
</span></font></div>
<div><font color="#000000"><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><br>
Bob has addressed a point that should be too obvious to need consideration. However, for many years, I ignored it and it appears that most of us still do so. Conservation of charge. While it is possible to posit and describe the electron in terms of a photon,
recognition of the requirement for charge conservation and the positive and negative (but net neutral) nature of all photons must be accepted as a 'given'.<br>
<br>
</span></font></div>
<font color="#000000"><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">It is for this reason that I have proposed the 4-D structure of the electron/positron pair. It explains so much and leads beyond the electron-only structure. I believe that this has
to be a fundamental position for all of us - to be accepted, explained, and/or modeled in various ways. If not, then I fear that, as John W says, we will be unable "... to convince people we are not crazies..."<br>
<br>
</span></font></div>
<font color="#000000"><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">The point is that while the 'twist' can explain the net charge of an electron, it presents the problem of what happens to the opposite field lines. They cannot be confined inside
a 3-D container (topologically impossible w/o a charge source). My field-rectification and wormhole conjecture may not be the answer; but, it does address the problem. The field lines, as the gradient of a potential, presents a picture that Bob and I will
be proposing for the dynamic potentials of standing waves within an interference pattern.<br>
<br>
</span></font></div>
<font color="#000000"><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">The question is, "since there is no original potential within the space that becomes an electron, how does it get there?" Actually, to create an electron/positron pair, a strong electrical-potential
gradient (such as a nucleus) must exist. However, after the lepton pair is formed, the nucleus structure is left behind and remains unaffected. The potential(s) formed are balanced and become the lepton masses. They are separated in space by the nuclear potential
gradient. Are they also separated and combined in 'time'? If so, how and by what. The energy density of the 'internal' field lines being compressed, by the photon 'curling' as it passes the nucleus, will distort space (into time) and help create the wormhole
joining the field structures that will become the lepton pair.<br>
<br>
</span></font></div>
<font color="#000000"><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">This distortion is the electric potential created in the formation process. The womhole is the vortex that gives the pair stability (and perhaps their ultimate independence).<br>
<br>
</span></font></div>
<font color="#000000"><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">If anyone can come up with other (perhaps better) models, or reasons why such might not be required, please bring them forth.<br>
<br>
</span></font></div>
<font color="#000000"><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">Andrew<br>
____________________________________<br>
</span></font></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><font color="#000000"><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><br>
</span></font>
<div class="gmail_quote">
<div>
<div class="h5"><font color="#000000"><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">On Sun, Apr 26, 2015 at 8:17 AM, robert hudgins <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:hudginswr@msn.com" target="_blank">hudginswr@msn.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
</span></font></div>
</div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<div class="h5"><font color="#000000"><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">Dear Friends of Light, <br>
Pardon my intrusion on your discussion. I have been warned that I will be excluded unless I actively participate. <br>
<br>
Chip's diagram's are beautiful! His skill is enviable. However, it provokes questions. Why spin h and not 1/2? Are colors charge related? <br>
<br>
The photon may be a useful abstraction for expressing the way light energy is packaged, rather than a stable, traceable entity. After the photon energy has been assembled it may travel as a loosely entangled assembly of EM waves that may follow unpredictable
paths-- until they are condensed and captured by a resonator. Though the electron is clearly more discreet, it might also travel as an assembly of waves that pass through both openings of a double slit while engaging in constructive or destructive interference. <br>
I am having conceptual difficulty imagining a topological twist that totally conceals only the positive charge of a photon. <br>
<br>
Is an EM wave having only negative polarity a plausible construct? Are electrons without a positive partners being created with any frequency today?<br>
<br>
Thanks for your patience,<br>
Bob<br>
<br>
</span></font></div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div class="h5">
<hr>
<font color="#000000"><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">From: <a href="mailto:chipakins@gmail.com" target="_blank">chipakins@gmail.com</a><br>
To: <a href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank">general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a><br>
Date: Sat, 25 Apr 2015 17:59:56 -0500<br>
Subject: Re: [General] Einstein Philosophy by Dyson<br>
<br>
</span></font></div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div class="h5">
<p><font color="#000000"><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">Hi All</span></font></p>
<div><font color="#000000"><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"> <br>
</span></font></div>
<p><font color="#000000"><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">Just finished computing a possible field topology for a photon with spin h.</span></font></p>
<p><font color="#000000"><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">Viewed from the longitudinal axis:</span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<p><font color="#000000"><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><image001.jpg></span></font></p>
<p><font color="#000000"><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">And the side…</span></font></p>
<p><font color="#000000"><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><image004.png></span></font></p>
<div>
<div class="h5">
<p><font color="#000000"><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">Chip</span></font></p>
<div><font color="#000000"><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"> <br>
</span></font></div>
<div><font color="#000000"><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"> <br>
</span></font></div>
<div>
<div style="border-width: 1pt medium medium; border-style: solid none none; padding: 3pt 0in 0in;">
<p><font color="#000000"><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><b>From:</b> General [mailto:<a href="mailto:general-bounces%2Bchipakins" target="_blank">general-bounces+chipakins</a>=<a href="mailto:gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank">gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>] <b>On
Behalf Of </b>Mark, Martin van der<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Saturday, April 25, 2015 6:47 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [General] Einstein Philosophy by Dyson</span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div><font color="#000000"><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"> <br>
</span></font></div>
<div>
<p><font color="#000000"><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">Dear Chandra,</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p><font color="#000000"><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">I agree. I think that Einstein was even more right than he realized himself, but the future must show us.</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p><font color="#000000"><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">Bohr did a great job on finding the structure of the atom and introduced a revoltionary way of thinking to hold up the postulates required. That way of thinking, however, is merely
a scafolding, and it should be removed to see the truth and beauty lying hidden behind it.</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p><font color="#000000"><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">Copenhagen interpretation is now no more than a dogma that hampers progress!</span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p><font color="#000000"><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">Cheers, Martin</span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<div class="h5">
<div><font color="#000000"><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"> </span></font></div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left-width: 1px; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); padding-left: 1ex;">
<div dir="ltr">
<div>
<p><font color="#000000"><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">Op 25 apr. 2015 om 01:32 heeft chandra <<a href="mailto:chandra@phys.uconn.edu" target="_blank">chandra@phys.uconn.edu</a>> het volgende geschreven:</span></font></p>
</div>
<blockquote>
<p><font color="#000000"><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">Friends: </span></font></p>
<p><font color="#000000"><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">For a brief moment, allow me to change the subject. Freeman Dyson is an excellent writer. In the last part of his “Book Review” article (attached), Dyson beautifully summarizes
the three philosophical positions of Einstein (Classical), Bohr (Duality) and the current generation (Quantum-Only). To save time and to get to the philosophy segment, jump to the bottom of the picture showing Bohr and Einstein goofing and relaxing!</span></font></p>
<p><font color="#000000"><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">My philosophical position is more in line with Einstein; while acknowledging that the one of the three key reasons behind the emergence of quantum uncertainty is “because the processes
in the second layer are unobservable” (Dyson). This is why I have proposed, with demonstrated experiments in my book (“Causal Physics”), that when we start framing our enquiring postulates to imagine and visualize the invisible interaction processes, the nature
start to become a lot more transparent even within the current QM formalisms. Further, this philosophy of Interaction Process Mapping Epistemology (IPME) shows that current QM, in spite of its great successes, a next generation formalism with deeper levels
of enquiry has to be developed by the next generation. In other words, I am suggesting that our Knowledge Gatekeepers should change their blind devotion to currently successful theories and encourage the next generation to come up with various serious but
radically different possible approaches. Our conference platform is one such example.</span></font></p>
<p><font color="#000000"><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">If we do not deliberately frame our enquiring questions to visualize the invisible aspects of nature’s interaction processes; we will forever remain in the darkness of duality.
Duality represents ignorance; it does not represent new or better knowledge. We have to go beyond Bohr.</span></font></p>
<p><font color="#000000"><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">Chandra.</span></font></p>
<p><a name="14cfb147c7bcb94f_14cf64a3c4683655_14cf39fc4b3f623f__MailEndCompose" style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><font color="#000000"> </font></a></p>
<div>
<div style="border-width: 1pt medium medium; border-style: solid none none; padding: 3pt 0in 0in;">
<p><font color="#000000"><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><b>From:</b> General [<a href="mailto:general-bounces+chandra=phys.uconn.edu@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank">mailto:general-bounces+chandra=phys.uconn.edu@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>] <b>On
Behalf Of </b>John Williamson<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, April 24, 2015 9:46 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> David Mathes; Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Manohar .; Nick Bailey; Anthony Booth; Ariane Mandray<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [General] Articles of interest</span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
<div><font color="#000000"><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"> <br>
</span></font></div>
<div>
<p style="background-image: none; background-attachment: scroll; background-position: 0% 0%; background-repeat: repeat repeat;">
<font color="#000000"><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">Dear David and everyone,</span></font></p>
<p style="background-image: none; background-attachment: scroll; background-position: 0% 0%; background-repeat: repeat repeat;">
<font color="#000000"><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">Sounds as though MIT does a bit of a better job of promoting itself than I do (what a surprise!).</span></font></p>
<p style="background-image: none; background-attachment: scroll; background-position: 0% 0%; background-repeat: repeat repeat;">
<font color="#000000"><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">There is nothing much new in looking at single electrons. SLAC was doing this for years in HEP with its linear accelerator. For that matter Millikan was sensitive to single electrons
with his oil-drop experiment – and the school I went to was enlightened enough to let me do this experiment myself at the age of sixteen or so. What is marvelous is that they can make it sound as though detecting one electron something sexy! Robert Hadfield
(in our group) is in the business of detecting single photons and John Weaver (in our group) has huge capability to look at individual electrons with some of his work as well. This stuff is widely published!</span></font></p>
<p style="background-image: none; background-attachment: scroll; background-position: 0% 0%; background-repeat: repeat repeat;">
<font color="#000000"><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">More important than looking at detecting single electrons (easy enough!) is looking at the underlying sub-electron structure. Back in the late 1980’s and early 1990’s I was in the
business of looking at just that. I designed a single electron electrometer sensitive at down to about a thousandth of the electron charge. If you look at my Google scholar page you can find several papers related to this. The device could also be used as
a single electron pump, to deliver a stream of electrons phase locked to the frequency of a varying gate potential. My paper (see attached), looking at the electron sub-structure delivered electrons one-at-a-time and probe the profile of the individual electron
wave-function with a resolution of better than a tenth of its de Broglie wavelength. This experimental work did not stop when I left the field of course. Leo Kouwenhoven, in particular, spent many years investigating my single-electron electrometer device
(and creating new ones) in the last quarter of a century. There is now a very great deal of experimental information about the inner structure of matter, electrons (and photons) with which to work. </span></font></p>
<p style="background-image: none; background-attachment: scroll; background-position: 0% 0%; background-repeat: repeat repeat;">
<font color="#000000"><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">What was lacking then, and is still not widely accepted now, is a proper theoretical framework within which to interpret this inner structure. This is what we have to do. Firstly
develop the theoretical framework and secondly get the message out. </span></font></p>
<p style="background-image: none; background-attachment: scroll; background-position: 0% 0%; background-repeat: repeat repeat;">
<font color="#000000"><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">We have to convince people we are not crazies and that this is serious, new science. That is what will be hard. Any communications of this to the outside world needs to get rid of
the speculative , ill informed, or just plain wrong stuff that is perfectly ok within the context of an online discussion or over a pint or two, but not ok at all if we wish to make a serious attempt at convincing the outside world. </span></font></p>
<p style="background-image: none; background-attachment: scroll; background-position: 0% 0%; background-repeat: repeat repeat;">
<font color="#000000"><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">Regards, John.</span></font></p>
<div></div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<font color="#000000"><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><br>
</span></font></div>
</div>
</div>
<font color="#000000"><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">_______________________________________________<br>
If you no longer wish to receive communication from the Nature of Light and Particles General Discussion List at <a href="mailto:richgauthier@gmail.com" target="_blank">richgauthier@gmail.com</a><br>
<a href="<a href="http://lists.natureoflightandparticles.org/options.cgi/general-natureoflightandparticles.org/richgauthier%40gmail.com?unsub=1&unsubconfirm=1" target="_blank">http://lists.natureoflightandparticles.org/options.cgi/general-natureoflightandparticles.org/richgauthier%40gmail.com?unsub=1&unsubconfirm=1</a>"><br>
Click here to unsubscribe<br>
</a></span></font></div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<font color="#000000"><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><br>
</span></font></div>
<font color="#000000"><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><br>
_______________________________________________<br>
If you no longer wish to receive communication from the Nature of Light and Particles General Discussion List at <a href="mailto:mules333@gmail.com">mules333@gmail.com</a><br>
<a href="<a href="http://lists.natureoflightandparticles.org/options.cgi/general-natureoflightandparticles.org/mules333%40gmail.com?unsub=1&unsubconfirm=1" target="_blank">http://lists.natureoflightandparticles.org/options.cgi/general-natureoflightandparticles.org/mules333%40gmail.com?unsub=1&unsubconfirm=1</a>"><br>
Click here to unsubscribe<br>
</a></span></font></blockquote>
</div>
<font color="#000000"><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);"><br>
</span></font></div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite"><font color="#000000"><span style="background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0);">_______________________________________________<br>
If you no longer wish to receive communication from the Nature of Light and Particles General Discussion List at
<a href="mailto:martin.van.der.mark@philips.com">martin.van.der.mark@philips.com</a><br>
<a href="<a href="http://lists.natureoflightandparticles.org/options.cgi/general-natureoflightandparticles.org/martin.van.der.mark%40philips.com?unsub=1&unsubconfirm=1">http://lists.natureoflightandparticles.org/options.cgi/general-natureoflightandparticles.org/martin.van.der.mark%40philips.com?unsub=1&unsubconfirm=1</a>"><br>
Click here to unsubscribe<br>
</a></span></font></blockquote>
<br>
<hr>
<font face="Arial" color="Gray" size="1">The information contained in this message may be confidential and legally protected under applicable law. The message is intended solely for the addressee(s). If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified
that any use, forwarding, dissemination, or reproduction of this message is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by return e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message.<br>
</font>
</body>
</html>