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<div style="direction: ltr;font-family: Tahoma;color: #000000;font-size: 10pt;">Hello,<br>
<br>
Briefly - yes pi mesons are real particles. They leave nice long traces in cloud or bubble chambers. The rho is equally real.<br>
<br>
Gluons have never been observed directly. The W and Z are sufficiently short-lived that they are observed as so-called resonances.<br>
<br>
Regards, John.<br>
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<div style="direction: ltr;" id="divRpF39921"><font face="Tahoma" color="#000000" size="2"><b>From:</b> General [general-bounces+john.williamson=glasgow.ac.uk@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org] on behalf of Richard Gauthier [richgauthier@gmail.com]<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, May 24, 2015 11:21 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [General] Electron Torus<br>
</font><br>
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<div>John D,
<div class=""> And according to <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_particle" class="" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_particle</a> , the pi meson and rho meson are virtual particles for proton-neutron attraction in nuclei,
as are the W and Z bosons for the weak nuclear force. Are gluons, pi mesons and W and Z particles ever real?</div>
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<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">On May 24, 2015, at 8:58 AM, John Duffield <<a href="mailto:johnduffield@btconnect.com" class="" target="_blank">johnduffield@btconnect.com</a>> wrote:</div>
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<span class="" style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Richard:</span></div>
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<span class="" style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> </span></div>
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<span class="" style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">See the<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gluon#Confinement" class="" style="color:purple; text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">Wikipedia gluon article</a>,
note the bit that says<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><i class=""><span class="" lang="EN">as opposed to virtual ones found in ordinary hadrons.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></i><span class="" style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" lang="EN">The
gluons in a proton are virtual. As in not real. And LOL, perhaps the same is true of the quarks!<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></div>
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<span class="" style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" lang="EN">Regards</span></div>
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<span class="" style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" lang="EN">John D<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span class="" style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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<b class=""><span class="" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span class="" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" lang="EN-US"><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>General [<a href="mailto:general-bounces+johnduffield=btconnect.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" class="" style="color:purple; text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">mailto:general-bounces+johnduffield=btconnect.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>]<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="">On
Behalf Of<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Richard Gauthier<br class="">
<b class="">Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>24 May 2015 16:12<br class="">
<b class="">To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion<br class="">
<b class="">Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [General] Electron Torus</span></div>
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Chip, Martin, John D and others,</div>
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<div class="" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:12pt; font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">
I suspect that the fundamental quantities of both spacetime and particles/fields are frequency (directly proportional to the energy of a particle and inversely proportional to time) and wavelength (inversely proportional to the momentum of a particle and
directly proportional to space). Spin is related to energy-momentum topology. Electric charge seems related to topology. Particles with rest mass are composed of charged photons and related speed-of-light particles like charged gluons (normal gluons are electrically
uncharged but have color charge while quarks have both electrical charge and color charge.) And I suspect that the energy quantum (composing both speed-of-light particles and rest-mass particles) is the unifying link between spacetime and particles/fields
(and therefore quantum mechanics/QED/QCD/quantum gravity) and may be the precursor as well as the sustainer of both.</div>
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Richard</div>
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On May 24, 2015, at 7:06 AM, Mark, Martin van der <<a href="mailto:martin.van.der.mark@philips.com" class="" style="color:purple; text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">martin.van.der.mark@philips.com</a>> wrote:</div>
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<span class="" style="font-size:9pt; font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif">John D, </span></div>
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<span class="" style="font-size:9pt; font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif">I fully agree with your reply to Chip, thanks for the details!</span></div>
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<span class="" style="font-size:9pt; font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif">Please join us at the bar;-)</span></div>
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<span class="" style="font-size:9pt; font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif">Cheers three!</span></div>
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<span class="" style="font-size:9pt; font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif">Martin<br class="">
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Verstuurd vanaf mijn iPhone</span></div>
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<span class="" style="font-size:9pt; font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif"><br class="">
Op 24 mei 2015 om 15:56 heeft John Duffield <<a href="mailto:johnduffield@btconnect.com" class="" style="color:purple; text-decoration:underline" target="_blank"><span class="" style="color:purple">johnduffield@btconnect.com</span></a>> het volgende geschreven:</span></p>
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<span class="" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif; color:rgb(31,73,125)">Chip:</span></div>
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<span class="" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif; color:rgb(31,73,125)">I’m blue, you’re black:</span></div>
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<span class="" lang="EN-US">As all of you know, after Relativity was introduced and adopted, the popular belief for a while, was that space was empty, and that a media of space was not required. Now however it seems that most physicists have accepted that
space is a media, with quantum attributes, and some level of energy density. </span></div>
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<span class="" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif; color:rgb(31,73,125)">That popular belief was a cargo-cult false belief, because Einstein made it clear in his 1920 Leyden Address that space was the “aether” of general relativity. He made
it clear that space was not some emptiness, but instead was a thing that is “conditioned” by a massive body such as a star.</span></div>
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<span class="" lang="EN-US">If space is a media, what would we perceive which is different from space being empty?</span></div>
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<span class="" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif; color:rgb(31,73,125)">That popular belief was a cargo-cult belief, because Einstein made it clear in his 1920 <a href="http://einsteinpapers.press.princeton.edu/vol7-trans/192?highlightText=%22neither%20homogeneous%22" class="" style="color:purple; text-decoration:underline" target="_blank"><span class="" style="color:purple">Leyden
Address</span></a><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>that space was the “aether” of general relativity, and space was not empty.</span></div>
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<span class="" lang="EN-US">Some would say there is no perceptible difference. But is that precisely true?</span></div>
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<span class="" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif; color:rgb(31,73,125)">No. Like Einstein said in<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://www.rain.org/~karpeles/einsteindis.html" class="" style="color:purple; text-decoration:underline" target="_blank"><span class="" style="color:purple">1929</span></a>,
a field is a state of space.</span></div>
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<span class="" lang="EN-US">If space is a media, it implies a preferred reference frame in space. This is an item which would be difficult, or perhaps impossible to detect, but for one item. If space is a media with a preferred reference frame, then clocks
in that reference frame would be the fastest clocks possible in the universe. </span></div>
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<span class="" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif; color:rgb(31,73,125)">There’s also the<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmic_microwave_background#CMBR_dipole_anisotropy" class="" style="color:purple; text-decoration:underline" target="_blank"><span class="" style="color:purple">CMB
reference frame</span></a>. It’s preferred in that it tells you your speed through the universe. And whilst it isn’t an absolute frame in the strict sense, the universe is as absolute as it gets.</span></div>
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<span class="" lang="EN-US">One thing which would alter the ability to test this is a gross frame dragging of space around massive bodies or concentrations of mass.</span></div>
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<span class="" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif; color:rgb(31,73,125)">See<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://www2.warwick.ac.uk/newsandevents/pressreleases/galaxy_sized_twist/" class="" style="color:purple; text-decoration:underline" target="_blank"><span class="" style="color:purple">the
asymmetric Kerr metric as a source of CP violation</span></a>. It’s to do with galactic frame-dragging.</span></div>
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<span class="" lang="EN-US">If space is a media, and if frame dragging does occur</span></div>
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<span class="" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif; color:rgb(31,73,125)">It’s a popscience myth that it isn’t a medium, electromagnetic waves do not propagate because an electric wave creates a magnetic wave and vice versa. I’m confident
that frame dragging does occur, and that the electron electromagnetic field is a fierce example of it.</span></div>
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<b class=""><span class="" lang="EN-US">A definition of TIME is the underlying objective of this line of questions.</span></b><span class="" lang="EN-US"> For I see two possibilities, one is that time is an inherent property of space and, as the current relativity
teaches, a fourth dimension in our “spacetime”. The other is that time is simply the rate at which particles can interact, caused by the fact that fields can only propagate at a finite velocity, and that we are made of particles which are circularly confined
fields.<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span></div>
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<span class="" lang="EN-US">I feel the first explanation is less likely because it does not show cause, it does not tell us why time is part of space, just that it is. The second explanation is the one I currently prefer because it is a simple consequence
of the nature of space and particles, it shows cause.</span></div>
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<span class="" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif; color:rgb(31,73,125)">I prefer it too, and so did Einstein. See<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://www.physicsdiscussionforum.org/time-explained-t3.html" class="" style="color:purple; text-decoration:underline" target="_blank"><span class="" style="color:purple">Time
Explained</span></a><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>and<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/World-without-Time-Forgotten-Einstein/dp/0465092942" class="" style="color:purple; text-decoration:underline" target="_blank"><span class="" style="color:purple">A
World Without Time: the forgotten legacy of Godel and Einstein</span></a>.<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span></div>
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<span class="" lang="EN-US">Is time truly a fourth dimension at the lowest level of analysis of space?</span></div>
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<span class="" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif; color:rgb(31,73,125)">No. We live in a world of space and motion. Our time dimension is derived from motion. It’s a dimension in the sense of measure, not in the sense of freedom of motion.<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span></div>
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<span class="" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif; color:rgb(31,73,125)">Regards</span></div>
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<span class="" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif; color:rgb(31,73,125)">John D</span></div>
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<b class=""><span class="" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span class="apple-converted-space"><span class="" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" lang="EN-US"> </span></span><span class="" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" lang="EN-US">General
[<a href="mailto:general-bounces+johnduffield=btconnect.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" class="" style="color:purple; text-decoration:underline" target="_blank"><span class="" style="color:purple">mailto:general-bounces+johnduffield=btconnect.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</span></a>]<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="">On
Behalf Of<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Chip Akins<br class="">
<b class="">Sent:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>24 May 2015 14:24<br class="">
<b class="">To:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>'Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion'<br class="">
<b class="">Subject:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [General] Electron Torus</span></div>
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<span class="" lang="EN-US">Hi All</span></div>
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<span class="" lang="EN-US">We are working on the foundations of physics. Studying and trying to decipher the result of experiment in a causal manner.</span></div>
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<span class="" lang="EN-US"> </span></div>
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<span class="" lang="EN-US">As we do that it keeps bringing me back to the nature of space itself. John M has made some good points about starting from the makeup of space and working our way up from there. John D has communicated a solid and basic approach
to many of the issues. Many of us have proposed models, field formulations, and a host of other possible explanations for what we observe.</span></div>
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<span class="" lang="EN-US">As we reflect on what we have done and what we still need to do, there are some things which may still need to be addressed and answered before we can make progress in certain areas.</span></div>
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<span class="" lang="EN-US">For example, the nature of space and time, are fundamental to understanding physics. Some of us feel we have a reasonable handle on this, and it is a very basic part of what we are doing, but I am thinking that we do not yet have
it quite right. For the endeavor we have undertaken, I think close is not good enough.</span></div>
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<span class="" lang="EN-US">First I want to state clearly that I do not yet propose to have the answers to the nature of space, all I have is conjecture so far.</span></div>
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<span class="" lang="EN-US">As all of you know, after Relativity was introduced and adopted, the popular belief for a while, was that space was empty, and that a media of space was not required. Now however it seems that most physicists have accepted that
space is a media, with quantum attributes, and some level of energy density. </span></div>
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<div class="" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:12pt; font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">
<span class="" lang="EN-US">However many of the subtle suggestions engendered during that time when it was perceived that space was empty, and much of the “foundation” of relativity is still based on there being no media which constitutes space.</span></div>
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<span class="" lang="EN-US">If space is a media, what would we perceive which is different from space being empty? Some would say there is no perceptible difference. But is that precisely true?</span></div>
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<span class="" lang="EN-US">If space is a media, it implies a preferred reference frame in space. This is an item which would be difficult, or perhaps impossible to detect, but for one item.</span></div>
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<span class="" lang="EN-US">If space is a media with a preferred reference frame, then clocks in that reference frame would be the fastest clocks possible in the universe. All clocks in all other inertial frames would be slower. One thing which would alter
the ability to test this is a gross frame dragging of space around massive bodies or concentrations of mass.</span></div>
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<span class="" lang="EN-US">It seems that relativity has been tested with regards to the slowing of clocks with relative velocity to a precision of about 1.6% to 10% depending on which experiments you prefer. But of course these tests are at low relative velocities
and only represent a narrow prat of the spectrum of tests which would be required to absolutely validate the entire curve. And an error of 1.6% is still a substantial error for this type of validation.</span></div>
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<span class="" lang="EN-US">If space is a media, and if frame dragging does occur, again it would be difficult to verify the existence of the media using clocks, depending on how much frame dragging there is. If space is a media, how can we calculate the frame
dragging and quantify it?</span></div>
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<b class=""><span class="" lang="EN-US">A definition of TIME is the underlying objective of this line of questions.</span></b><span class="" lang="EN-US"> For I see two possibilities, one is that time is an inherent property of space and, as the current relativity
teaches, a fourth dimension in our “spacetime”. The other is that time is simply the rate at which particles can interact, caused by the fact that fields can only propagate at a finite velocity, and that we are made of particles which are circularly confined
fields.</span></div>
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<span class="" lang="EN-US">I feel the first explanation is less likely because it does not show cause, it does not tell us why time is part of space, just that it is. The second explanation is the one I currently prefer because it is a simple consequence
of the nature of space and particles, it shows cause.</span></div>
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<span class="" lang="EN-US">One thing I think we must remember as we construct a physical model is that we are dealing with the fundamentals and foundations, the building blocks so to speak, and in that endeavor we will probably find instances where a phenomenon
like the definition of time, or the definition of charge, or the definition of spin, is not the same at the micro level as it is at our macro observable level. If we do our job well we will discover the causes and sources of many of these types of phenomena.
At levels below the causal level for any of these phenomena, the macro rules no longer apply in full.</span></div>
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<span class="" lang="EN-US">After saying that, a question would naturally arise, if time as we measure it is merely the result of the interaction of particles, how and when do we incorporate the dimension of time in our calculations? Is the development of time
at such a low level that we should include it in all calculations, just as relativity teaches? Or does time come into play only at the particle level, and the finite velocity of light predominates at lower levels? Is time truly a fourth dimension at the lowest
level of analysis of space? Or does it just appear to be that way from our perspectives due to the nature of our particulate construction and measurements?</span></div>
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<span class="" lang="EN-US">Any and all opinion and argument is eagerly appreciated. If you could please let me know your take on this and the reasons you feel that way I will be grateful.</span></div>
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<span class="" lang="EN-US">Chip</span></div>
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<span class="" lang="EN-US"> </span></div>
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<b class=""><span class="" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span class="apple-converted-space"><span class="" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" lang="EN-US"> </span></span><span class="" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" lang="EN-US">General
[<a href="mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" class="" style="color:purple; text-decoration:underline" target="_blank"><span class="" style="color:purple">mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</span></a>]<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="">On
Behalf Of<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></b>John Williamson<br class="">
<b class="">Sent:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Friday, May 22, 2015 8:02 AM<br class="">
<b class="">To:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion<br class="">
<b class="">Subject:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [General] Electron Torus</span></div>
</div>
</div>
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<span class="" lang="EN-US"> </span></div>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 12pt; font-size:12pt; font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">
<span class="" style="font-size:10pt; font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif" lang="EN-US">Hello Chip,<br class="">
<br class="">
Have been meaning to say for some time: you are producing some beautiful models.<br class="">
<br class="">
Would be good to talk at some stage.<br class="">
<br class="">
Regards. John (W)<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
</span></p>
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<span class="" lang="EN-US">
<hr class="" align="center" size="2" width="100%">
</span></div>
<div id="divRpF393921" class="">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 12pt; font-size:12pt; font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">
<b class=""><span class="" style="font-size:10pt; font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif" lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span class="apple-converted-space"><span class="" style="font-size:10pt; font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif" lang="EN-US"> </span></span><span class="" style="font-size:10pt; font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif" lang="EN-US">General
[<a href="mailto:general-bounces+john.williamson=glasgow.ac.uk@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" class="" style="color:purple; text-decoration:underline" target="_blank"><span class="" style="color:purple">general-bounces+john.williamson=glasgow.ac.uk@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</span></a>]
on behalf of Chip Akins [<a href="mailto:chipakins@gmail.com" class="" style="color:purple; text-decoration:underline" target="_blank"><span class="" style="color:purple">chipakins@gmail.com</span></a>]<br class="">
<b class="">Sent:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Friday, May 22, 2015 1:59 PM<br class="">
<b class="">To:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>'Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion'<br class="">
<b class="">Subject:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [General] Electron Torus</span></p>
</div>
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<div class="" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:12pt; font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">
<span class="" lang="EN-US">Hi Richard</span></div>
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<span class="" lang="EN-US">Sorry I was modeling what I though was the spin 1 photon model of the electron.</span></div>
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<span class="" lang="EN-US">This is what I perceive to be your spin ½ photon model of the electron to be with velocity. Same velocity steps as before.</span></div>
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<span class="" lang="EN-US">Nested set of models,</span></div>
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<span class="" lang="EN-US"><image001.png></span></div>
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<span class="" lang="EN-US">Slow trajectory lines, purple, faster trajectory lines tending toward green.</span></div>
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<span class="" lang="EN-US">Here is the code for the electron’s reference frame for the above graphic:</span></div>
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<div class="" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:12pt; font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">
<span class="" style="font-size:10pt; font-family:'Courier New'" lang="EN-US">X(ii)=Roc*(1/y^2+(1/y)*cosd(y*c*(t)/Roc))*cosd(y*c*(t)/Roc);</span></div>
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<div class="" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:12pt; font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">
<span class="" style="font-size:10pt; font-family:'Courier New'" lang="EN-US">Y(ii)=Roc*(1/y^2+(1/y)*cosd(y*c*(t)/Roc))*sind(y*c*(t)/Roc);</span></div>
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<div class="" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:12pt; font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">
<span class="" style="font-size:10pt; font-family:'Courier New'" lang="EN-US">Z(ii)=(Roc/y)*sind(y*c*(t)/Roc);</span></div>
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<div class="" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:12pt; font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">
<span class="" lang="EN-US">Note: there is still a very small electron model (with velocity 0.9988c) at the center of this graphic. In this model the contraction is in all directions, not just longitudinally. I think this is correct, but it does not agree
with some interpretations of relativity. It is also difficult to see how this model, without spiral fields, would look the same to a moving observer when the electron is “at rest”. </span></div>
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<div class="" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:12pt; font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">
<span class="" lang="EN-US">And the model is of course not really spherical.</span></div>
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<span class="" lang="EN-US">Does this match your results?</span></div>
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<div class="" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:12pt; font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">
<span class="" lang="EN-US">Can you share the graphics model you have done?</span></div>
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<span class="" lang="EN-US">Chip</span></div>
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<div class="" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:12pt; font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">
<span class="" lang="EN-US"> </span></div>
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<div class="" style="border-style:solid none none; border-top-color:rgb(225,225,225); border-top-width:1pt; padding:3pt 0cm 0cm">
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<b class=""><span class="" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span class="apple-converted-space"><span class="" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" lang="EN-US"> </span></span><span class="" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" lang="EN-US">General
[</span><span class="" lang="EN-US"><a href="mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" class="" style="color:purple; text-decoration:underline" target="_blank"><span class="" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif; color:purple">mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</span></a></span><span class="" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" lang="EN-US">]<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="">On
Behalf Of<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Richard Gauthier<br class="">
<b class="">Sent:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Friday, May 22, 2015 7:31 AM<br class="">
<b class="">To:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion<br class="">
<b class="">Subject:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [General] Electron Torus</span></div>
</div>
</div>
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<span class="" lang="EN-US"> </span></div>
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<span class="" lang="EN-US">John D., Chip and Andrew,</span></div>
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<span class="" lang="EN-US"> </span></div>
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<div class="" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:12pt; font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">
<span class="" lang="EN-US"> Isn’t it the case that in standard physics (experimentally confirmed) the measured spin of an electron is relative to the motion of the observer of the electron, just as the observed momentum of an electron is relative to the
motion of the observer of the electron? If an observer moving west to east with a relativistic velocity v1 passes a “stationary” electron (in some reference frame) , the electron has an observed momentum (when it measured) going west, and a spin either up
or down (when it is measured) in the east-west direction and a de Broglie wavelength corresponding to the relative velocity v1, while when an observer moving relativistically south to north with velocity v2 passes a “stationary" electron , the electron has
an observed momentum (when it is measured) going south, a spin that is up or down (when it is measured) in the north-south direction, and a de Broglie wavelength corresponding to its relative velocity v2. (In QM, velocity, spin and de Broglie wavelength probably
can’t all be measured at the same time). </span></div>
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<span class="" lang="EN-US"> </span></div>
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<span class="" lang="EN-US">The relativistic energy-momentum equation for the electron E^2 = p^2 c^2 + m^2 c^4 applies to the electron described above when observed by two observers with two different relativistic velocities compared to the electron. I showed
in my article “the electron is a charged photon with the de Broglie wavelength” that the same relativistic energy-momentum equation applies to a helically moving double-looping photon that may compose an electron, where E is the energy of the photon (the same
as the total energy of the electron composed by the photon), p is the longitudinal momentum of the helically moving photon (the same as the momentum p of the electron being modeled), E/c is the total momentum of the photon along its helical path, and mc is
the transverse momentum of the helically moving photon, which contributes to the electron’s spin up or spin down value hbar/2 in the case of a slow moving electron (modeled by the double-looping photon). So every electron observed to have a momentum p will
in this view also have a spin hbar/2 up or down in the direction of its momentum. </span></div>
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<span class="" lang="EN-US"> </span></div>
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<div class="" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:12pt; font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">
<span class="" lang="EN-US">Also, when a photon is Doppler shifted-due to relative motion of the light source away from or towards the observer, the observed wavelength of the photon is lengthened or shortened accordingly. Doesn’t this imply that the length
of the whole photon (if it consists of a certain number of wavelengths) is also lengthened or shortened accordingly?</span></div>
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<span class="" lang="EN-US">Richard</span></div>
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<span class="" lang="EN-US">On May 22, 2015, at 12:06 AM, John Duffield <<a href="mailto:johnduffield@btconnect.com" class="" style="color:purple; text-decoration:underline" target="_blank"><span class="" style="color:purple">johnduffield@btconnect.com</span></a>>
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<span class="" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif; color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang="EN-US">David:</span></div>
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<span class="" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif; color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang="EN-US">Why don’t photons get length contracted? Because they’re just waves in space moving at the speed of waves in space. A ripple in a rubber mat doesn’t get
length contracted, nor do waves in space. Then when you make those waves go round and round, they still don’t get length-contracted. Then when you move past them fast, they still don’t get length contracted. You might say the path of those waves is different,
but it isn’t, they didn’t change, you did. And if you boil yourself down to a single electron, and boil that down to a ring, then draw circles and helixes, I think it gets to the bottom of things.<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span></div>
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<span class="" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif; color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang="EN-US">Chip:</span></div>
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<span class="" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif; color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang="EN-US">Yes, I’m certain relative velocity is a determining factor. But note that “we” are made of electrons and things, so IMHO it’s best to start with two particles,
such as the electron and the positron. If you set them down with no initial relative motion they move linearly together, and we talk of electric force. </span></div>
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<span class="" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif; color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang="EN-US">However if you threw the postiron over the top of the electron they’d move together and go around one another, whereupon we talk of magnetic force. Note
that this is relative velocity, not relativistic velocity. I’ve seen people<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span class="" lang="EN-US"><a href="http://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/65335/how-do-moving-charges-produce-magnetic-fields" class="" style="color:purple; text-decoration:underline" target="_blank"><span class="" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif; color:purple">explain
the magnetic field around the current-in-the-wire using length contraction</span></a></span><span class="" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif; color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang="EN-US">, but IMHO that’s a fairy tale, and I prefer a<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span class="" lang="EN-US"><a href="http://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/184055/atomic-explanation-of-magnetic-field/184079?noredirect=1#comment388570_184079" class="" style="color:purple; text-decoration:underline" target="_blank"><span class="" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif; color:purple">“screw”
answer</span></a></span><span class="" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif; color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang="EN-US">. </span></div>
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<span class="" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif; color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang="EN-US">Regards</span></div>
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<b class=""><span class="" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span class="apple-converted-space"><span class="" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" lang="EN-US"> </span></span><span class="" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" lang="EN-US">General
[</span><span class="" lang="EN-US"><a href="mailto:general-bounces+johnduffield=btconnect.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" class="" style="color:purple; text-decoration:underline" target="_blank"><span class="" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif; color:purple">mailto:general-bounces+johnduffield=btconnect.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</span></a></span><span class="" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" lang="EN-US">]<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="">On
Behalf Of<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Chip Akins<br class="">
<b class="">Sent:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>21 May 2015 21:39<br class="">
<b class="">To:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>'Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion'<br class="">
<b class="">Subject:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [General] Electron Torus</span></div>
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<span class="" lang="EN-US">Hi John D</span></div>
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<span class="" lang="EN-US">Regarding…</span></div>
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<span class="" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif; color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang="EN-US">Sorry, I don’t think that can be right because you could go past an electron at .9988c.</span></div>
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<span class="" lang="EN-US">Yes, I am coming to think that maybe the spiral fields caused by limited field propagation velocity, might play a larger role than I had first considered.</span></div>
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<span class="" lang="EN-US">I think Martin was onto this aspect already.</span></div>
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<span class="" lang="EN-US">Wondering if relative velocity is a factor in determining what portion of the spiral field we detect or interact with? And if so, how that might work.</span></div>
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<span class="" lang="EN-US">The earlier electron model graphics are created from the math that Richard developed for his spin ½ electron.</span></div>
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<b class=""><span class="" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span class="apple-converted-space"><span class="" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" lang="EN-US"> </span></span><span class="" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" lang="EN-US">General
[</span><span class="" lang="EN-US"><a href="mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" class="" style="color:purple; text-decoration:underline" target="_blank"><span class="" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif; color:purple">mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</span></a></span><span class="" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" lang="EN-US">]<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="">On
Behalf Of<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></b>John Duffield<br class="">
<b class="">Sent:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Thursday, May 21, 2015 3:15 PM<br class="">
<b class="">To:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>'Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion'<br class="">
<b class="">Subject:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [General] Electron Torus</span></div>
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<span class="" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif; color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang="EN-US">Sorry, I don’t think that can be right because you could go past an electron at .9988c.</span></div>
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<span class="" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif; color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang="EN-US">Andrew:</span></div>
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<span class="" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif; color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang="EN-US">Photons don’t get length contracted, and electrons are made out of photons in pair production. If you simplify the electron to a photon going round in a
circle, then take one point on the circumference, you would say it describes a circular path. But when you move past the electron fast, you would say that point was describing a helical path. Then when you consider all points of the circumference, you might
say the electron was a cylinder rather than a circle. And if you<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><i class="">were</i><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>that electron, everything to you would look length-contracted, because you’re smeared
out. If I was a motionless electron you’d say I was length contracted. But I might say<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><i class="">I<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></i>was the one moving, and that<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><i class="">you’re</i><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>length-contracted.
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<span class="" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif; color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang="EN-US">Regards</span></div>
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<span class="" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif; color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang="EN-US">John</span></div>
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<b class=""><span class="" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span class="apple-converted-space"><span class="" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" lang="EN-US"> </span></span><span class="" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" lang="EN-US">General
[</span><span class="" lang="EN-US"><a href="mailto:general-bounces+johnduffield=btconnect.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" class="" style="color:purple; text-decoration:underline" target="_blank"><span class="" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif; color:purple">mailto:general-bounces+johnduffield=btconnect.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</span></a></span><span class="" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" lang="EN-US">]<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="">On
Behalf Of<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Chip Akins<br class="">
<b class="">Sent:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>21 May 2015 17:52<br class="">
<b class="">To:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>'Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion'<br class="">
<b class="">Subject:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [General] Electron Torus</span></div>
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<span class="" lang="EN-US">Hi Andrew</span></div>
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<span class="" lang="EN-US">Images from the electron’s reference frame.</span></div>
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<span class="" lang="EN-US">For Richard’s model using the spin 1 photon, and drawing in the electron’s reference frame, his math produces the following image for a set of nested electron models with velocities up to 0.9988c.</span></div>
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<span class="" lang="EN-US">The small grey sphere in the center is the electron model for 0.9988c.<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span></div>
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<span class="" lang="EN-US">So in this model the electron shrinks in all directions, but remains principally spherical when viewed from the electron’s reference frame.</span></div>
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<span class="" lang="EN-US">Chip</span></div>
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<b class=""><span class="" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span class="apple-converted-space"><span class="" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" lang="EN-US"> </span></span><span class="" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" lang="EN-US">General
[</span><span class="" lang="EN-US"><a href="mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" class="" style="color:purple; text-decoration:underline" target="_blank"><span class="" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif; color:purple">mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</span></a></span><span class="" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" lang="EN-US">]<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="">On
Behalf Of<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Andrew Meulenberg<br class="">
<b class="">Sent:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Thursday, May 21, 2015 11:15 AM<br class="">
<b class="">To:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion; Andrew Meulenberg<br class="">
<b class="">Subject:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [General] Electron Torus</span></div>
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<span class="" lang="EN-US">Dear Chip,</span></p>
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<span class="" lang="EN-US">I learn something new every time. However, it may not be true.</span></p>
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<span class="" lang="EN-US">If I interpret your images properly, the fastest electrons are the longest. However, relativistic shortening should shrink the length. I had expected the electron to 'pancake' in the direction of motion. You show the opposite. Is
the pancake only in the electron's frame and the appearance from our frame is one of an extended structure? If both, do they cancel and, in reality, it is still spherical?</span></p>
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<span class="" lang="EN-US">Andrew</span></div>
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<span class="" lang="EN-US">On Thu, May 21, 2015 at 7:36 PM, Chip Akins <<a href="mailto:chipakins@gmail.com" class="" style="color:purple; text-decoration:underline" target="_blank"><span class="" style="color:purple">chipakins@gmail.com</span></a>> wrote:</span></div>
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<span class="" lang="EN-US">Hi Richard</span></div>
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<span class="" lang="EN-US">So it is a bit more difficult to visualize exactly what is going on from the graphics with velocity.</span></div>
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<span class="" lang="EN-US">We increase the velocity is in steps from<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="">zero through 0.9988c.</b></span></div>
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<span class="" lang="EN-US">From the Z axis the illustration looks like:</span></div>
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<span class="" lang="EN-US"><image008.jpg></span></div>
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<span class="" lang="EN-US">Showing the reduced radius with velocity.</span></div>
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<span class="" lang="EN-US">But when we look at the model slightly off axis (Z axis) we see this:</span></div>
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<span class="" lang="EN-US">So this is a set of nested electron models with different velocities, each starting from the same point (upper right of the illustration). These are drawn from an external observers frame and are not shown in the electron’s reference
frame.<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span></div>
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<span class="" lang="EN-US">In the electron’s reference frame we would see closure to the trajectory, but in this reference frame, the trajectory (since it is moving) is not closed.</span></div>
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<span class="" lang="EN-US">Chip</span></div>
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<b class=""><span class="" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span class="apple-converted-space"><span class="" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" lang="EN-US"> </span></span><span class="" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" lang="EN-US">General
[mailto:</span><span class="" lang="EN-US"><a href="mailto:general-bounces%2Bchipakins" class="" style="color:purple; text-decoration:underline" target="_blank"><span class="" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif; color:purple">general-bounces+chipakins</span></a></span><span class="" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" lang="EN-US">=</span><span class="" lang="EN-US"><a href="mailto:gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" class="" style="color:purple; text-decoration:underline" target="_blank"><span class="" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif; color:purple">gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</span></a></span><span class="" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" lang="EN-US">]<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="">On
Behalf Of<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Richard Gauthier<br class="">
<b class="">Sent:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Thursday, May 21, 2015 6:29 AM</span></div>
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<span class="" lang="EN-US"><br class="">
<b class="">To:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion<br class="">
<b class="">Subject:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [General] Electron Torus</span></div>
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<span class="" lang="EN-US">Chip,</span></div>
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<span class="" lang="EN-US"> Please correct a couple of typos in my last email. The TEQ (transluminal energy quantum) moves on the surface of a torus, not a helix. Also the first helical radius mentioned should have been Ro sqrt(2) = 1.414 Ro , not Ro sqrt(2)/2
= 1.414 Ro since sort(2)/2 = 0.707 not 1.414 . Thanks.</span></div>
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<span class="" lang="EN-US"> Richard</span></div>
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<span class="" lang="EN-US">On May 20, 2015, at 6:42 PM, Richard Gauthier <<a href="mailto:richgauthier@gmail.com" class="" style="color:purple; text-decoration:underline" target="_blank"><span class="" style="color:purple">richgauthier@gmail.com</span></a>>
wrote:</span></div>
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<span class="" lang="EN-US"> Nice graphics!</span></div>
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<span class="" lang="EN-US"> Shouldn’t the electric field lines of an electron at some distance from the electron model be pointing inward linearly towards the electron from infinity on all sides, since the electron's electric field (due to its electric
charge) falls off as 1/r^2 . I don’t understand why the electric field lines appear closed in your diagrams.</span></div>
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<span class="" lang="EN-US"> In my original resting electron model the TEQ was a circulating negative electric charge which circulated on the surface of a helix. I called the circulating TEQ a photon-like object since it was similar to my TEQ model of a
photon. I was assuming at that time that the photon in my resting electron model had spin 1, even though I had adjusted the helical radius so that the circulating TEQ generated the magnetic moment of the electron of 1 Bohr magneton, requiring a helical radius
for the TEQ of Ro sqrt(2)/2 = 1.414 Ro which created the spindle torus in my model . So this was actually neither a spin 1 photon (whose radius for a resting electron would have been 2Ro, or a spin 1/2 photon, whose radius for a resting electron would be Ro,
as in the 3D models that you and I generated from the moving electron equations I proposed. Since I currently prefer the model of an electron composed of a spin 1/2 circulating photon, this doesn’t generate the electron’s magnetic moment of 1 Bohr magneton.
But it generates a magnetic moment more than 1/2 Bohr magneton which would be produced by a charge circulating at light speed in a simple double loop of radius Ro. I haven’t done the calculation for the magnetic moment generated by my spin 1/2 photon model
of the electron, but I suspect that it would be 0.707 Bohr magneton (just a guess at this point). The calculation of this magnetic moment from the TEQ trajectory equations for a charged TEQ in the spin 1/2 photon model is relatively straightforward though.</span></div>
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<span class="" lang="EN-US"> By the way, have you looked at the side view of the actual TEQ trajectory at various values of v/c of the electron in the spin 1/2 photon moving-electron model that I proposed (and that you programmed and graphed in 3D to show
how the model size changes as 1/gamma at various values of v/c)? The side view of the TEQ trajectory for a moving electron contains some surprises, at least for me. I thought that at high values of v/c (say 0.99 or 0.999) the TEQ would just appear from the
side view to rotate helically around its reducing and increasingly more linear helical trajectory (whose trajectory reduces as 1/(gamma^2), with the TEQ’s helical radius reducing as 1/gamma. But that’s apparently not what happens. Could you check this with
your 3D program? </span></div>
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<span class="" lang="EN-US">On May 19, 2015, at 8:45 AM, Chip Akins <<a href="mailto:chipakins@gmail.com" class="" style="color:purple; text-decoration:underline" target="_blank"><span class="" style="color:purple">chipakins@gmail.com</span></a>> wrote:</span></div>
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<span class="" lang="EN-US">Hi Richard</span></div>
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<span class="" lang="EN-US">If your spin 1 photon model of the electron is similar to John W and Martin’s model in that the field lines always orient with the negative end outwards (providing for charge) the estimated field distribution is similar to this illustration.
(Equatorial View)</span></div>
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<span class="" lang="EN-US">(Top View from Z axis)</span></div>
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<span class="" lang="EN-US">Red lines represent negative ends of field lines, Blue lines represent positive, black is the transport radius, faint green line is one circulation at the transport radius.</span></div>
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<span class="" lang="EN-US">Photon field amplitude is shown as a cosine function of wavelength/2.</span></div>
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<b class=""><span class="" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span class="" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" lang="EN-US"> General [</span><span class="" lang="EN-US"><a href="mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" class="" style="color:purple; text-decoration:underline" target="_blank"><span class="" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif; color:purple">mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</span></a></span><span class="" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" lang="EN-US">] <b class="">On
Behalf Of </b>Richard Gauthier<br class="">
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<b class="">To:</b> Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion<br class="">
<b class="">Subject:</b> Re: [General] Electron Torus</span></div>
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<span class="" lang="EN-US">Chip,</span></div>
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<span class="" lang="EN-US"> Perfect! It would also be good to have the pair of tori seen an an angle from above their ‘equator’ to get a more 3-D quality.</span></div>
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<span class="" lang="EN-US">On May 5, 2015, at 6:07 AM, Chip Akins <<a href="mailto:chipakins@gmail.com" class="" style="color:purple; text-decoration:underline" target="_blank"><span class="" style="color:purple">chipakins@gmail.com</span></a>> wrote:</span></div>
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<span class="" lang="EN-US">Hi Richard</span></div>
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<span class="" lang="EN-US">How do these look?</span></div>
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<b class=""><span class="" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span class="" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" lang="EN-US"> General [</span><span class="" lang="EN-US"><a href="mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" class="" style="color:purple; text-decoration:underline" target="_blank"><span class="" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif; color:purple">mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</span></a></span><span class="" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" lang="EN-US">] <b class="">On
Behalf Of </b>Richard Gauthier<br class="">
<b class="">Sent:</b> Monday, May 04, 2015 1:18 PM<br class="">
<b class="">To:</b> Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion<br class="">
<b class="">Subject:</b> Re: [General] Electron Torus</span></div>
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<span class="" lang="EN-US">Hi Chip,</span></div>
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<span class="" lang="EN-US"> The radius of the circle in the horn torus (spin 1/2 photon model) should visually be (since it is actually) 1/2 of the radius of the circle in the spindle torus (spin 1 photon model) -- the spin 1/2 photon model is smaller than
the spin 1 photon model. Thanks! And could you perhaps show the energy quantum trajectory in a different color that the torus background so the trajectory stands out better?</span></div>
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<span class="" lang="EN-US"> Richard</span></div>
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<span class="" lang="EN-US">On Mon, May 4, 2015 at 10:42 AM, Chip Akins <<a href="mailto:chipakins@gmail.com" class="" style="color:purple; text-decoration:underline" target="_blank"><span class="" style="color:purple">chipakins@gmail.com</span></a>> wrote:</span></div>
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<b class=""><span class="" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span class="" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" lang="EN-US"> General [mailto:</span><span class="" lang="EN-US"><a href="mailto:general-bounces%2Bchipakins" class="" style="color:purple; text-decoration:underline" target="_blank"><span class="" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif; color:purple">general-bounces+chipakins</span></a></span><span class="" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" lang="EN-US">=</span><span class="" lang="EN-US"><a href="mailto:gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" class="" style="color:purple; text-decoration:underline" target="_blank"><span class="" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif; color:purple">gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</span></a></span><span class="" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" lang="EN-US">] <b class="">On
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<b class="">Sent:</b> Monday, May 04, 2015 12:19 PM<br class="">
<b class="">To:</b> Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion<br class="">
<b class="">Subject:</b> Re: [General] Electron Torus</span></div>
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<span class="" lang="EN-US">Hi Chip,</span></div>
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<span class="" lang="EN-US"> Thanks. And finally, the vertical ovals of the tori should be circles because the circulating quantum has the same radius in the vertical and horizontal directions.</span></div>
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<span class="" lang="EN-US">On May 4, 2015, at 9:32 AM, Chip Akins <<a href="mailto:chipakins@gmail.com" class="" style="color:purple; text-decoration:underline" target="_blank"><span class="" style="color:purple">chipakins@gmail.com</span></a>> wrote:</span></div>
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<span class="" lang="EN-US">Hi Richard</span></div>
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<span class="" lang="EN-US">Thank you.</span></div>
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<span class="" lang="EN-US">Here you go:</span></div>
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<span class="" lang="EN-US">Chip</span></div>
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<b class=""><span class="" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span class="" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" lang="EN-US"> General [</span><span class="" lang="EN-US"><a href="mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" class="" style="color:purple; text-decoration:underline" target="_blank"><span class="" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif; color:purple">mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</span></a></span><span class="" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" lang="EN-US">] <b class="">On
Behalf Of </b>Richard Gauthier<br class="">
<b class="">Sent:</b> Monday, May 04, 2015 10:43 AM<br class="">
<b class="">To:</b> Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion<br class="">
<b class="">Subject:</b> Re: [General] Electron Torus</span></div>
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<span class="" lang="EN-US">Hi Chip,</span></div>
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<span class="" lang="EN-US"> Both tori should be symmetrical above and below the z-axis and center on z=0.</span></div>
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<span class="" lang="EN-US"> Richard</span></div>
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<span class="" lang="EN-US">On May 4, 2015, at 8:16 AM, Chip Akins <<a href="mailto:chipakins@gmail.com" class="" style="color:purple; text-decoration:underline" target="_blank"><span class="" style="color:purple">chipakins@gmail.com</span></a>> wrote:</span></div>
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<span class="" lang="EN-US">Hi Richard</span></div>
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<span class="" lang="EN-US">Viewed from the Z axis:</span></div>
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<span class="" lang="EN-US">And from the equatorial plane:</span></div>
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<b class=""><span class="" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span class="" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" lang="EN-US"> General [</span><span class="" lang="EN-US"><a href="mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" class="" style="color:purple; text-decoration:underline" target="_blank"><span class="" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif; color:rgb(149,79,114)">mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</span></a></span><span class="" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" lang="EN-US">] <b class="">On
Behalf Of </b>Richard Gauthier<br class="">
<b class="">Sent:</b> Sunday, May 03, 2015 11:07 PM<br class="">
<b class="">To:</b> Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion<br class="">
<b class="">Subject:</b> Re: [General] position</span></div>
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<span class="" lang="EN-US">Chip and all,</span></div>
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<span class="" lang="EN-US"> Here are some equations that relate to the modeling of a circulating photon as an electron. The second and third set include my own model of the photon. The first set doesn’t require a particular model for the photon, except as
mentioned below. The first model is the one that generates the de Broglie wavelength as explained in my article mentioned below.</span></div>
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<span class="" lang="EN-US">1. Here is the set of parametric equations for the helical trajectory of double-looping photon that models a free electron, and whose circular radius for a resting electron is Ro=hbar/2mc. The speed of the photon along this trajectory
is always c. The longitudinal or z-component of the photon’s speed is the electron’s velocity v along the z-axis. The frequency of the photon around the helical axis is proportional to the circulating photon/electron's energy E=gamma mc^2. The distance of
the photon’s helical trajectory from the z-axis for an electron whose speed is v, is proportional to 1/gamma^2. This equation is in my article “The electron is a charged photon with the de Broglie wavelength”. This equation does not include a particular model
of the photon, but assumes that the photon follows the relations c=f lambda, E=hf and p=h/lambda. Both helicities of the helical trajectory are given.</span></div>
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