<html><body><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:16px"><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1432829116296_67076"><span id="yui_3_16_0_1_1432829116296_67286">Martin</span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1432829116296_67077"><span><br></span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1432829116296_67077" dir="ltr">My friend, interesting observation. Also, my particle/quanta bias is showing. I should have been a bit more field oriented and explicit about basis for the tangents I was taking.<span><br></span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1432829116296_67078"><br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1432829116296_67545" dir="ltr">In Hestenes book, Clifford Algebra to Geometric Calculus, he states more clearly what I was thinking. Emphasis is mine.</div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1432829116296_67545"><br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1432829116296_67545" dir="ltr">"<span style="color: rgb(51, 51, 51); font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 14px; line-height: 22.399999618530273px;" class="" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1432829116296_71705">Many distinct algebraic systems have been adapted or developed to express geometric relations and describe geometric structures. Especially notable are those algebras which have been used for this purpose in physics, in particular, the system of complex numbers, the quaternions, matrix algebra, vector, tensor and spinor algebras and the algebra of differential forms. <b id="yui_3_16_0_1_1432829116296_71995">Each of these geometric algebras has some significant advantage over the others in certain applications</b>, so no one of them provides an adequate algebraic structure for all purposes of geometry and physics. At the same time, the algebras overlap considerably, so they provide several different mathematical representations for individual geometrical or physical ideas."</span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1432829116296_67673"><br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1432829116296_67078" class="" style="" dir="ltr">Having been a student of MTW Gravitation, for decades I have always been under the impression that to do real physics to be useful that tensors and even the four or six vector EM, need to be reduced to a three vector, especially in the context of Special Relativity and General Relativity. Matrix algebra, Clifford Algebra and quaternions have not successfully change that impression. Complex numbers have caused pause though.</div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1432829116296_67078" class="" style="" dir="ltr"><br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1432829116296_67078" class="" style="" dir="ltr">David</div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1432829116296_67078" class="" style="" dir="ltr"><br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1432829116296_67078" class="" style="" dir="ltr"><br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1432829116296_67078" class="" style="" dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr" class="" style="" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1432829116296_72323"><br class="" style=""></div> <blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255); margin-left: 5px; margin-top: 5px; padding-left: 5px;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1432829116296_67084"> <div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1432829116296_67083"> <div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1432829116296_67082"> <div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1432829116296_67081"> <hr size="1" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1432829116296_67155"> <font size="2" face="Arial" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1432829116296_67085"> <b id="yui_3_16_0_1_1432829116296_67154"><span style="font-weight:bold;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1432829116296_67153">From:</span></b> "Mark, Martin van der" <martin.van.der.mark@philips.com><br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> David Mathes <davidmathes8@yahoo.com> <br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Cc:</span></b> Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion <general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org> <br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Thursday, May 28, 2015 11:16 AM<br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [General] Force Equations<br> </font> </div> <div class="y_msg_container" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1432829116296_67145"><br><div id="yiv4730905397"><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1432829116296_67147">
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1432829116296_67146">Dear David, </div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1432829116296_71832">Unfortunately you do not have a clue of what i am talking about. </div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1432829116296_71835">First, I was refering to the clifford six vector for electromagnetism, the equivalent of the faraday tensor in covariant notation.</div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1432829116296_71833">Second, i meant the mathematical structure of Hopf fibrations, known to people who do topologial fields.</div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1432829116296_71834">I try to take my opponent to be knowledgable, but my capacity to be clear may have failed me again, that should be fixed now.</div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1432829116296_72181">Cheers, Martin</div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1432829116296_71836"><br clear="none">
Verstuurd vanaf mijn iPhone</div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1432829116296_71837"><br clear="none">
Op 28 mei 2015 om 19:07 heeft David Mathes <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:davidmathes8@yahoo.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:davidmathes8@yahoo.com" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1432829116296_71991">davidmathes8@yahoo.com</a>> het volgende geschreven:<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
</div>
<div class="qtdSeparateBR"><br><br></div><div class="yiv4730905397yqt5549477049" id="yiv4730905397yqt24563"><blockquote type="cite" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1432829116296_71840">
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1432829116296_71839">
<div style="color:#000;background-color:#fff;font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:16px;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1432829116296_71838">
<div id="yiv4730905397yui_3_16_0_1_1432829116296_7260"><span>Martin</span></div>
<div id="yiv4730905397yui_3_16_0_1_1432829116296_7260"><span><br clear="none">
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<div id="yiv4730905397yui_3_16_0_1_1432829116296_7260"><span id="yiv4730905397yui_3_16_0_1_1432829116296_7381">I was referring to the comment about EM as being "...a six-vector field, not a scalar field."</span></div>
<div id="yiv4730905397yui_3_16_0_1_1432829116296_7384"><br clear="none">
</div>
<div dir="ltr" id="yiv4730905397yui_3_16_0_1_1432829116296_7500">Topological descriptions which involve turns, twists and knots will have to provide at some point a physical reason such states. Conservation of momentum is usually the guiding requirement with conservation
of energy, charge, spin and mass addressed as well. Beyond these direct measurements everything else is calculated.</div>
<div dir="ltr" id="yiv4730905397yui_3_16_0_1_1432829116296_7500"><br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr" id="yiv4730905397yui_3_16_0_1_1432829116296_7500">So any suggestion of a twist, turn, and knot... or not, as in absence of...will need to be addressed. </div>
<div dir="ltr" id="yiv4730905397yui_3_16_0_1_1432829116296_7500"><br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr" id="yiv4730905397yui_3_16_0_1_1432829116296_7500">Since the extreme frequencies of any circulating quanta may blur results, fibration can also be viewed as a short coming of instrumentation limits or interpretated results where the quanta is simply too fast
to be observed clearly. </div>
<div dir="ltr" id="yiv4730905397yui_3_16_0_1_1432829116296_7500"><br clear="none">
</div>
<div dir="ltr" id="yiv4730905397yui_3_16_0_1_1432829116296_7500"> Given that my paper is a view of topological models for the Standard Model for the Standard Model, a good mathematical physics definition suitable for topological considerations is summarized by Kaplunovsky
(UT-Austin) which is used for courses in Quantum Field Theory and Advanced Supersymmetry.</div>
<div dir="ltr" id="yiv4730905397yui_3_16_0_1_1432829116296_7500"><br clear="none">
</div>
<div dir="ltr" id="yiv4730905397yui_3_16_0_1_1432829116296_7500"> <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" id="yiv4730905397yui_3_16_0_1_1432829116296_10784" target="_blank" href="http://bolvan.ph.utexas.edu/~vadim/classes/11f/SM.pdf">http://bolvan.ph.utexas.edu/~vadim/classes/11f/SM.pdf</a></div>
<div dir="ltr" id="yiv4730905397yui_3_16_0_1_1432829116296_7500"><br clear="none">
</div>
<div dir="ltr" id="yiv4730905397yui_3_16_0_1_1432829116296_7500">For EM, one can begin with other choices that are simpler in scope even for the twists. Polarization *might* be one way to explain the twist. </div>
<div dir="ltr" id="yiv4730905397yui_3_16_0_1_1432829116296_7500"><br clear="none">
</div>
<div dir="ltr" id="yiv4730905397yui_3_16_0_1_1432829116296_7500">While there is some appeal in to twists and fibration, one does have to pay careful attention since - as you point out - these twists may be nested with more than just two layers. We can make it complicated,
does nature? At the macro level, plants fibers can be used. However, nature delivers a variety of structures at the macro level such as bamboo as a multistory building material. At the micro level nature continues the parade of filaments with carbon tubes
and DNA. Polymers also come to mind but basically, any long chain molecule will be at least an initial candidate. However, I don't see long chains at the elementary particle level. </div>
<div dir="ltr" id="yiv4730905397yui_3_16_0_1_1432829116296_7500"><br clear="none">
</div>
<div dir="ltr" id="yiv4730905397yui_3_16_0_1_1432829116296_7500">So one idea is that a particle or quanta is producing a wake of energy density disturbance, and that wake decay is sufficiently long enough to interpret as a filament or fiber. However, one could easily go
to a relativistic velocities and perform an Alice and Bob analysis of what an extreme speed quanta may appear like.</div>
<div dir="ltr" id="yiv4730905397yui_3_16_0_1_1432829116296_7500"><br clear="none">
</div>
<div dir="ltr" id="yiv4730905397yui_3_16_0_1_1432829116296_7500">If we stipulate that vibrations can be the simplest 3D geometric forms of the one or two loops, a simple rotation leads us into slightly more complex structures including ellipsoid, sphere, toroids and cylindrical
forms, and the physics becomes complex rather quickly. Richard has toroid equation sets for variants for Newtonian, Relativistic and even Transluminal models. So fibration versions of these might prove interesting and perhaps a bit challenging. </div>
<div dir="ltr" id="yiv4730905397yui_3_16_0_1_1432829116296_7500"> <br clear="none">
</div>
<div id="yiv4730905397yui_3_16_0_1_1432829116296_7500">So resonance can be interpreted in many ways by a circulating particle or quanta in the form of a ribbon or wake decay with associated twists, turns and knots as well as modulations. Or not.</div>
<div id="yiv4730905397yui_3_16_0_1_1432829116296_7500"><br clear="none">
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<div id="yiv4730905397yui_3_16_0_1_1432829116296_7500">Best</div>
<div id="yiv4730905397yui_3_16_0_1_1432829116296_7500"><br clear="none">
</div>
<div id="yiv4730905397yui_3_16_0_1_1432829116296_7500">David</div>
<blockquote id="yiv4730905397yui_3_16_0_1_1432829116296_7208" style="border-left:2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255);margin-left:5px;margin-top:5px;padding-left:5px;">
<div id="yiv4730905397yui_3_16_0_1_1432829116296_7207" style="font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:16px;">
<div id="yiv4730905397yui_3_16_0_1_1432829116296_7206" style="font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:16px;">
<div dir="ltr" id="yiv4730905397yui_3_16_0_1_1432829116296_7259">
<hr id="yiv4730905397yui_3_16_0_1_1432829116296_7382" size="1">
<font id="yiv4730905397yui_3_16_0_1_1432829116296_7383" size="2" face="Arial"><b><span style="font-weight:bold;">From:</span></b> "Mark, Martin van der" <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:martin.van.der.mark@philips.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:martin.van.der.mark@philips.com">martin.van.der.mark@philips.com</a>><br clear="none">
<b><span style="font-weight:bold;">To:</span></b> David Mathes <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:davidmathes8@yahoo.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:davidmathes8@yahoo.com">davidmathes8@yahoo.com</a>>; Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org">general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>>
<br clear="none">
<b><span style="font-weight:bold;">Sent:</span></b> Thursday, May 28, 2015 4:14 AM<br clear="none">
<b><span style="font-weight:bold;">Subject:</span></b> RE: [General] Force Equations<br clear="none">
</font></div>
<div class="yiv4730905397y_msg_container" id="yiv4730905397yui_3_16_0_1_1432829116296_7205"><br clear="none">
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<div id="yiv4730905397yui_3_16_0_1_1432829116296_7204">
<div class="yiv4730905397WordSection1" id="yiv4730905397yui_3_16_0_1_1432829116296_7203">
<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" id="yiv4730905397yui_3_16_0_1_1432829116296_7559"><span id="yiv4730905397yui_3_16_0_1_1432829116296_7912" style="font-size:11.0pt;">David, where did I exclude a scalar field?</span></div>
<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" id="yiv4730905397yui_3_16_0_1_1432829116296_7560"><span id="yiv4730905397yui_3_16_0_1_1432829116296_7910" style="font-size:11.0pt;">I was only saying that the picture of a knot made out of an isotropic fibration is simpler than that of an electromagnetic
fibration.</span></div>
<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" id="yiv4730905397yui_3_16_0_1_1432829116296_7562"><span id="yiv4730905397yui_3_16_0_1_1432829116296_7561" style="font-size:11.0pt;">A fibration is a lot of fibers “rays” stacked together. Even if these are isotropic themselves, the whole thing can
be twisted, look at a thich cable and the strands in it. Can be complicated.</span></div>
<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" id="yiv4730905397yui_3_16_0_1_1432829116296_7202"><span id="yiv4730905397yui_3_16_0_1_1432829116296_7911" style="font-size:11.0pt;">If the rays or strands or fibers are themselves orientable, complexity is even higher.</span></div>
<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" id="yiv4730905397yui_3_16_0_1_1432829116296_7209"><span id="yiv4730905397yui_3_16_0_1_1432829116296_7258" style="font-size:11.0pt;">Only the simplest knots can, if built from orientable fibers, make up a large spectrum of particles…</span></div>
<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" id="yiv4730905397yui_3_16_0_1_1432829116296_15598"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">Cheers, Martin</span></div>
<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" id="yiv4730905397yui_3_16_0_1_1432829116296_7210"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;"> </span></div>
<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" id="yiv4730905397yui_3_16_0_1_1432829116296_7211"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;"> </span></div>
<div id="yiv4730905397yui_3_16_0_1_1432829116296_7257">
<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal"><span lang="DE" style="font-size:10.0pt;">Dr. Martin B. van der Mark</span><span lang="DE" style="color:navy;"></span></div>
<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" id="yiv4730905397yui_3_16_0_1_1432829116296_7256"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;">Principal Scientist, Minimally Invasive Healthcare</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;"></span></div>
<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;"> </span></div>
<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;">Philips Research Europe - Eindhoven</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;"></span></div>
<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;">High Tech Campus, Building 34 (WB2.025)</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;"></span></div>
<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;">Prof. Holstlaan 4</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;"></span></div>
<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;">5656 AE Eindhoven, The Netherlands</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;"></span></div>
<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;">Tel: +31 40 2747548</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;"></span></div>
</div>
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<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;"> David Mathes [<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:davidmathes8@yahoo.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:davidmathes8@yahoo.com">mailto:davidmathes8@yahoo.com</a>]
<br clear="none">
<b>Sent:</b> donderdag 28 mei 2015 10:56<br clear="none">
<b>To:</b> Mark, Martin van der; Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion<br clear="none">
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [General] Force Equations</span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal"> </div>
<div id="yiv4730905397yui_3_16_0_1_1432829116296_7214">
<div id="yiv4730905397yui_3_16_0_1_1432787829828_72820">
<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="">Mark</span></div>
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<div id="yiv4730905397yui_3_16_0_1_1432787829828_72883">
<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style=""> </span></div>
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<div id="yiv4730905397yui_3_16_0_1_1432787829828_72883">
<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" id="yiv4730905397yui_3_16_0_1_1432829116296_7213" style="background:white;">
<span id="yiv4730905397yui_3_16_0_1_1432829116296_7212" style="">I'll accept that even a simple loop can be a knot. It's not clear to me yet that for all particles in the Standard Model that particles are described by topological knots or need to be that complex. </span></div>
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<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" id="yiv4730905397yui_3_16_0_1_1432829116296_7218" style="background:white;">
<span style=""> </span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv4730905397yui_3_16_0_1_1432787829828_72883">
<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" id="yiv4730905397yui_3_16_0_1_1432829116296_7220" style="background:white;">
<span id="yiv4730905397yui_3_16_0_1_1432829116296_7219" style="">I'm hesitant to use just a six-vector field without a scalar field. However, one must start somewhere. Perhaps this hesitation is because I'm partial to deBroglie-Bohm and not behold to the Heaviside simplification
of Maxwell's original twenty equations. While I think Dirac remedied the situation, and Schroedinger provided zbw as a nice qualification, I'm still not satisfied that one has to give up a scalar field.</span></div>
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<div id="yiv4730905397yui_3_16_0_1_1432787829828_72950">
<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" id="yiv4730905397yui_3_16_0_1_1432829116296_7221" style="background:white;">
<span style=""> </span></div>
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<div id="yiv4730905397yui_3_16_0_1_1432787829828_72950">
<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" id="yiv4730905397yui_3_16_0_1_1432829116296_7223" style="background:white;">
<span id="yiv4730905397yui_3_16_0_1_1432829116296_7222" style="">I have wondered about the success of toroidal antennas as a conditioner of EM waves since both photonic and electronic waves share similar wave-particle properties and effects. See for example, Barrett 1998, The
Toroid Antenna as a Conditioner of Electromagnetic Fields into (Low Energy) Gauge Fields</span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv4730905397yui_3_16_0_1_1432787829828_72950">
<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" id="yiv4730905397yui_3_16_0_1_1432829116296_7226" style="background:white;">
<span style="">or the book...Barrett 2008, </span><b id="yiv4730905397yui_3_16_0_1_1432829116296_7225"><span id="yiv4730905397yui_3_16_0_1_1432829116296_7224" style="">Topological Foundations of Electromagnetism.</span></b><span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style=""> </span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv4730905397yui_3_16_0_1_1432787829828_72950">
<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="">Best</span><span style=""></span></div>
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<span style=""> </span></div>
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<div id="yiv4730905397yui_3_16_0_1_1432787829828_72950">
<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="">David</span><span style=""></span></div>
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<b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;"> "Mark, Martin van der" <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:martin.van.der.mark@philips.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:martin.van.der.mark@philips.com">martin.van.der.mark@philips.com</a>><br clear="none">
<b>To:</b> David Mathes <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:davidmathes8@yahoo.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:davidmathes8@yahoo.com">davidmathes8@yahoo.com</a>>; Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org">general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>>
<br clear="none">
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, May 28, 2015 1:18 AM<br clear="none">
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [General] Force Equations</span><span style=""></span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv4730905397yui_3_16_0_1_1432787829828_72622">
<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style=""> </span></div>
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<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" id="yiv4730905397yui_3_16_0_1_1432829116296_7255" style="background:white;">
<span style="font-size:11.0pt;">Dear David, John D</span><span style=""></span></div>
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<span id="yiv4730905397yui_3_16_0_1_1432829116296_7253" style="font-size:11.0pt;">First, thanks John D for the examples you have sent in the mean time.</span><span style=""></span></div>
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<div id="yiv4730905397yui_3_16_0_1_1432787829828_73176">
<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" id="yiv4730905397yui_3_16_0_1_1432829116296_7252" style="background:white;">
<span id="yiv4730905397yui_3_16_0_1_1432829116296_7251" style="font-size:11.0pt;">David, there is in my mind no difference between the PBE and a knot, I think the knot is made of light, essentially.</span><span style=""></span></div>
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<div id="yiv4730905397yui_3_16_0_1_1432787829828_72886">
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<span id="yiv4730905397yui_3_16_0_1_1432829116296_7247" style="font-size:11.0pt;">Note however that the pictures of the knots that John D presented are mad of isotropic rope (you may actually call it string, but that will be confused with string theory)</span><span style=""></span></div>
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<div id="yiv4730905397yui_3_16_0_1_1432787829828_72619">
<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" id="yiv4730905397yui_3_16_0_1_1432829116296_7246" style="background:white;">
<span id="yiv4730905397yui_3_16_0_1_1432829116296_7245" style="font-size:11.0pt;">Electromagnetism is a six-vector field, not a scalar field, and hence any twists will change the local properties of the orientable rope. This is one of the reasons why John W and I use a
strip to model the electron in our ’97 paper.</span><span style=""></span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv4730905397yui_3_16_0_1_1432787829828_72669">
<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" id="yiv4730905397yui_3_16_0_1_1432829116296_7243" style="background:white;">
<span id="yiv4730905397yui_3_16_0_1_1432829116296_7244" style="font-size:11.0pt;">Models are a first step, and are at the level of the Bohr atom. Nice but descepive. A model at the level of the Schroedinger atom is at leqast required to say what is what, really. Proper
theory is a must.</span><span style=""></span></div>
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<div id="yiv4730905397yui_3_16_0_1_1432787829828_72695">
<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" id="yiv4730905397yui_3_16_0_1_1432829116296_7242" style="background:white;">
<span id="yiv4730905397yui_3_16_0_1_1432829116296_7241" style="font-size:11.0pt;">So I hope this frees you of some worries…</span><span style=""></span></div>
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<div id="yiv4730905397yui_3_16_0_1_1432787829828_72673">
<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">Best, Martin</span><span style=""></span></div>
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<span style="font-size:11.0pt;"> </span><span style=""></span></div>
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<div id="yiv4730905397yui_3_16_0_1_1432787829828_72676">
<div id="yiv4730905397yui_3_16_0_1_1432787829828_72690">
<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span lang="DE" style="font-size:10.0pt;">Dr. Martin B. van der Mark</span><span style=""></span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv4730905397yui_3_16_0_1_1432787829828_72680">
<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;">Principal Scientist, Minimally Invasive Healthcare</span><span style=""></span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv4730905397yui_3_16_0_1_1432787829828_72675">
<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;"> </span><span style=""></span></div>
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<div id="yiv4730905397yui_3_16_0_1_1432787829828_72678">
<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;">Philips Research Europe - Eindhoven</span><span style=""></span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv4730905397yui_3_16_0_1_1432787829828_72686">
<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;">High Tech Campus, Building 34 (WB2.025)</span><span style=""></span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv4730905397yui_3_16_0_1_1432787829828_72682">
<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;">Prof. Holstlaan 4</span><span style=""></span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv4730905397yui_3_16_0_1_1432787829828_72684">
<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;">5656 AE Eindhoven, The Netherlands</span><span style=""></span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;">Tel: +31 40 2747548</span><span style=""></span></div>
</div>
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<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;"> </span><span style=""></span></div>
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<b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;">From:</span></b><span id="yiv4730905397yui_3_16_0_1_1432829116296_7230" style="font-size:10.0pt;"> David Mathes [<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" id="yiv4730905397yui_3_16_0_1_1432829116296_7229" ymailto="mailto:davidmathes8@yahoo.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:davidmathes8@yahoo.com">mailto:davidmathes8@yahoo.com</a>]
<br clear="none">
<b>Sent:</b> donderdag 28 mei 2015 6:28<br clear="none">
<b>To:</b> Mark, Martin van der; Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion<br clear="none">
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [General] Force Equations</span><span style=""></span></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div id="yiv4730905397yui_3_16_0_1_1432787829828_74971">
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<span style=""> </span></div>
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<div id="yiv4730905397yui_3_16_0_1_1432787829828_74969">
<div id="yiv4730905397yui_3_16_0_1_1432782820830_5690">
<div id="yiv4730905397yui_3_16_0_1_1432787829828_74968">
<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="">Mark</span></div>
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<div id="yiv4730905397yui_3_16_0_1_1432829116296_7236">
<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" id="yiv4730905397yui_3_16_0_1_1432829116296_7235" style="background:white;">
<span id="yiv4730905397yui_3_16_0_1_1432829116296_7234" style="">Perhaps I've been living in California too long for while I am painfully aware of invariance in many ways, I take a Monte Carlo analysis approach looking at "what if" scenarios in an attempt to falsify the
invariance. Although variations on the theme of infinite series provide a fair amount of insight at least for small perturbations, I believe that science cannot advance significantly without looking for breakthroughs beyond constants to variables and the foundational
assumption of invariance. It's a fine line of investigation bordering on "not even wrong." So there needs to be some reasoning and a bit of a reach but not necessarily to the level of String theory.</span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div id="yiv4730905397yui_3_16_0_1_1432782820830_5691">
<div>
<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style=""> </span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div id="yiv4730905397yui_3_16_0_1_1432782820830_5691">
<div>
<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style=""> If this variable or variance is permitted, how then could this work?</span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div id="yiv4730905397yui_3_16_0_1_1432782820830_5691">
<div>
<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style=""> </span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div id="yiv4730905397yui_3_16_0_1_1432782820830_5691">
<div>
<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="">Before we get too tied up in knot theories, there is the need to go through the PBE models. I find it curious that in some models there is only positive or negative acceleration to
the photon/quanta. </span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div id="yiv4730905397yui_3_16_0_1_1432782820830_5691">
<div>
<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style=""> </span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div id="yiv4730905397yui_3_16_0_1_1432782820830_5691">
<div>
<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="">Topologically, the ring torus models are of interest but fail in favor of a horn or spindle torus model. The spindle torus model can be reduced to a line torus where the 3D spindle
is reduces to a 1D line. The difficulty is that most torus models so far have been 3D. While I have seen only the mathematical 4D torus, I haven't seen any electron model described as such so far. A 5D phase-space solution (General Relativity + 1D phase space)
can be reduced to 4 vector. In both the 4D and 5D models, the potential issues of coherent states, asymptotic freedom, and other anomalies become a challenge. I'm still looking at Glauber states in the PBE models.</span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div id="yiv4730905397yui_3_16_0_1_1432782820830_5691">
<div>
<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style=""> </span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div id="yiv4730905397yui_3_16_0_1_1432782820830_5691">
<div>
<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="">One assumption that I make - which I admit may be wrong - is that any charged particle has an exclusive volume. That is, a negatively charge quark cannot occupy the volume defined
by the electron. If the electron absorbs the quark, it's not clear what the sum would be since even the absorption may be partial. Mass would change at least transiently; does electric charge change also even if only for a brief moment? Or could the quark
absorption by the electron charge be maintained by simply increasing the magnitude of the E field as in phat photons, the B-field as a separate force, or both.</span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div id="yiv4730905397yui_3_16_0_1_1432782820830_5691">
<div>
<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style=""> </span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div id="yiv4730905397yui_3_16_0_1_1432782820830_5691">
<div>
<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="">There may be partial charge absorption which would challenge at least charge conservation. The exclusion zone between dissimilar charge particles approach may fall apart for +2/3 charge
but not for +1/3 charge or less (-1/3 and -2/3). Published theories on 1/5th and 1/7th charge would also need to be reviewed.</span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div id="yiv4730905397yui_3_16_0_1_1432782820830_5691">
<div>
<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style=""> </span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div id="yiv4730905397yui_3_16_0_1_1432782820830_5691">
<div>
<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="">Then there are weak interactions between photon and electron where the electric field penetrates the electron radius as a part of wavelet.</span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div id="yiv4730905397yui_3_16_0_1_1432782820830_5691">
<div>
<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style=""> </span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div id="yiv4730905397yui_3_16_0_1_1432782820830_5692">
<div>
<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="">String theory is a big reach. Given that the LHC is having difficulties with establishing any sign of SUSY and string theory cannot be experimentally verified in the foreseeable future,
the focus remains on the nearest solid ground which includes for better or worse, elementary particles with attendant CPT violations, and quantum field theory, both of which have renormalization issues.</span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div id="yiv4730905397yui_3_16_0_1_1432782820830_5692">
<div>
<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style=""> </span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div id="yiv4730905397yui_3_16_0_1_1432782820830_5692">
<div>
<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="">So I'm looking forward to seeing the various papers.</span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div id="yiv4730905397yui_3_16_0_1_1432782820830_5692">
<div>
<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style=""> </span></div>
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</div>
<div id="yiv4730905397yui_3_16_0_1_1432782820830_5692">
<div>
<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="">Best Regards,</span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div id="yiv4730905397yui_3_16_0_1_1432782820830_5692">
<div>
<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style=""> </span></div>
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<div id="yiv4730905397yui_3_16_0_1_1432782820830_5692">
<div>
<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="">David</span></div>
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<span style=""> </span></div>
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<div>
<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;"> "Mark, Martin van der" <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:martin.van.der.mark@philips.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:martin.van.der.mark@philips.com">martin.van.der.mark@philips.com</a>><br clear="none">
<b>To:</b> David Mathes <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:davidmathes8@yahoo.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:davidmathes8@yahoo.com">davidmathes8@yahoo.com</a>>; Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org">general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>>
<br clear="none">
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, May 27, 2015 4:28 PM<br clear="none">
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [General] Force Equations</span><span style=""></span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div id="yiv4730905397yui_3_16_0_1_1432782820830_5706">
<div>
<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style=""> </span></div>
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<div id="yiv4730905397">
<div id="yiv4730905397yui_3_16_0_1_1432782820830_5705">
<div id="yiv4730905397yui_3_16_0_1_1432782820830_5709">
<div>
<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="">David,</span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div id="yiv4730905397yui_3_16_0_1_1432782820830_5704">
<div>
<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="">This paper is philosophical, with mathematics to support the line if thought. It shows why, based on energy balance and total mass, there cannot be any independent stabile structures
smaller than the proton. String theory and planck-scale physics are a likely waste of time.</span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div id="yiv4730905397yui_3_16_0_1_1432782820830_5707">
<div>
<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="">Another paper will deal with the complete theory of electromagnetic knots and quantum mechanics, it is now half finished. I may have explicit solutions to show at the conference in
august.</span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div id="yiv4730905397yui_3_16_0_1_1432782820830_5708">
<div>
<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="">John W and I also have a very nice paper on division in the space-time algebra and invariants that still needs some revision, but I will complete that too.</span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div id="yiv4730905397yui_3_16_0_1_1432782820830_6650">
<div>
<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="">Regards, Martin<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
Verstuurd vanaf mijn iPhone</span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;">
<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style=""><br clear="none">
Op 27 mei 2015 om 19:42 heeft David Mathes <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:davidmathes8@yahoo.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:davidmathes8@yahoo.com">davidmathes8@yahoo.com</a>> het volgende geschreven:</span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;">
<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style=""> </span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div id="yiv4730905397yqt55965">
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt;">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="">Martin</span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div id="yiv4730905397yui_3_16_0_1_1432745813750_26429">
<div>
<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style=""> </span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div id="yiv4730905397yui_3_16_0_1_1432745813750_26488">
<div>
<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="">"...</span><span class="yiv4730905397"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;"> a light speed knot of energy" </span></span><span style="">That phrase has a nice ring to it. </span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div id="yiv4730905397yui_3_16_0_1_1432745813750_26714">
<div>
<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style=""> </span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div id="yiv4730905397yui_3_16_0_1_1432745813750_26550">
<div>
<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="">I look forward to your paper. Does the paper address the topological construction of the light speed energy (LSE) knot? If the knot can be desribed parametrically, even better!</span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div id="yiv4730905397yui_3_16_0_1_1432745813750_26550">
<div>
<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style=""> </span></div>
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<div id="yiv4730905397yui_3_16_0_1_1432745813750_26550">
<div>
<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="">David</span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div id="yiv4730905397yui_3_16_0_1_1432745813750_26551">
<div>
<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style=""> </span></div>
</div>
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<blockquote id="yiv4730905397yui_3_16_0_1_1432745813750_26549" style="border:none;border-left:solid #1010FF 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 4.0pt;margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:3.75pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt;">
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<span style=""></span>
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<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;"> "Mark, Martin van der" <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:martin.van.der.mark@philips.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:martin.van.der.mark@philips.com">martin.van.der.mark@philips.com</a>><br clear="none">
<b>To:</b> David Mathes <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:davidmathes8@yahoo.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:davidmathes8@yahoo.com">davidmathes8@yahoo.com</a>>; Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org">general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>>
<br clear="none">
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, May 27, 2015 2:38 AM<br clear="none">
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [General] Force Equations</span><span style=""></span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div id="yiv4730905397yui_3_16_0_1_1432745813750_26769">
<div>
<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style=""> </span></div>
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<div id="yiv4730905397">
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<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">Hi David,</span><span style=""></span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">You have said the word: scalability!</span><span style=""></span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">Very important indeed.</span><span style=""></span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;"> </span><span style=""></span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="">Paper [9570-53], SPIE Optics + Photonic, San Diego, 9-13 August 2015</span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;"> </span><span style=""></span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="">On the nature of “stuff” and the hierarchy of forces</span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style=""> </span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style=""> </span></div>
</div>
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<div>
<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span lang="DE" style="">Martin B. van der Mark*</span><span style=""></span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="">Philips Research Europe, WB-21, HTC 34, 5656 AE Eindhoven, The Netherlands
</span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="">Abstract</span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="">From super clusters of galaxies down to the quarks in the proton, at all length scales the structure of matter is the result of a balance of forces. In this paper we show that with
decreasing size there is an increase of the fraction of kinetic and binding energy with respect to the total energy. Smaller sizes require stronger forces which represent more of the energy available. The smallest possible size of granularity is found where
the internal and total energy become comparable, which occurs at the size of the proton. We infer that the proton is the smallest stable particle with structure, being a light speed knot of energy.</span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">The paper is virtually finished and 15 pages long.</span><span style=""></span></div>
</div>
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<div>
<div>
<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">So we will be able to discuss and enjoy this point extensively.</span><span style=""></span></div>
</div>
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<div>
<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">Best regards, Martin</span><span style=""></span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;"> </span><span style=""></span></div>
</div>
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<div>
<div>
<div>
<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span lang="DE" style="font-size:10.0pt;">Dr. Martin B. van der Mark</span><span style=""></span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;">Principal Scientist, Minimally Invasive Healthcare</span><span style=""></span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;"> </span><span style=""></span></div>
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<div>
<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;">Philips Research Europe - Eindhoven</span><span style=""></span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;">High Tech Campus, Building 34 (WB2.025)</span><span style=""></span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;">Prof. Holstlaan 4</span><span style=""></span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;">5656 AE Eindhoven, The Netherlands</span><span style=""></span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;">Tel: +31 40 2747548</span><span style=""></span></div>
</div>
</div>
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<div>
<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;"> </span><span style=""></span></div>
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<div style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;">
<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style=""> </span></div>
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<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm;">
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<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;"> General [<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:general-bounces+martin.van.der.mark=philips.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:general-bounces+martin.van.der.mark=philips.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org">mailto:general-bounces+martin.van.der.mark=philips.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>David Mathes<br clear="none">
<b>Sent:</b> woensdag 27 mei 2015 7:19<br clear="none">
<b>To:</b> Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion<br clear="none">
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [General] Force Equations</span><span style=""></span></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
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<div>
<div>
<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style=""> </span></div>
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<div id="yiv4730905397yui_3_16_0_1_1432702775254_2935">
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<div>
<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="">Richard</span></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div id="yiv4730905397yui_3_16_0_1_1432702775254_2935">
<div>
<div>
<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style=""> </span></div>
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</div>
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<div id="yiv4730905397yui_3_16_0_1_1432702775254_2935">
<div>
<div>
<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="">The conjecture is that the parametric equations for photon-based electrons can be used as the basis to describe other particles and extended to all Standard Model particles. This
mathematical physics approach proposes a parameter-based topology that may be useful as a tool in extending the Standard Model and perhaps explaining CPT violations. However, group theory and in particular Lie groups at least to the form of U(1)XSU(2)X SU(3)
is related to the topological circulating photon/quanta models. (PBE).</span></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div id="yiv4730905397yui_3_16_0_1_1432702775254_3154">
<div>
<div>
<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style=""> </span></div>
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<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="">Now, I am quite familiar with your parametric sets of equations which come in three types: Newtonian, Relativistic and Transluminal sets. In this paper a roadmap is laid out for exploring
a parametric topological description of each elementary particle. Each parameter within the equations can be varied. </span></div>
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<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="">While some may perceive this as a quest for the smallest particle or the ultimate "atom" with such questions as what's inside the electron, what's inside the photon and what's inside
the quanta, such an approach only addresses one dimension common ignored, scalability. </span></div>
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<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="">In any electron model theory, nature has thrown fields into the mix, something not easily defined in the Standard Model. Perhaps a topologcal view might provide insights to combining
Quantum Field Theory </span></div>
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<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="">with the Standard Model.</span></div>
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<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="">Best</span></div>
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<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="">David</span></div>
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<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;"> Richard Gauthier <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:richgauthier@gmail.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:richgauthier@gmail.com">richgauthier@gmail.com</a>><br clear="none">
<b>To:</b> Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org">general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>>
<br clear="none">
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, May 26, 2015 9:59 PM<br clear="none">
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [General] Force Equations</span><span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="">David,</span></div>
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<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style=""> And of course Chip has a double-looped photon model of the electron, composed of a charged photon.</span></div>
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<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style=""> Richard</span></div>
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<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="">On May 26, 2015, at 5:53 PM, Richard Gauthier <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:richgauthier@gmail.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:richgauthier@gmail.com">richgauthier@gmail.com</a>>
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<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="">David,</span></div>
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<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style=""> see your referenced quote.</span></div>
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<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style=""> In the present company, Vivian proposes a double-looped electron which is charged, confined and contained (is there a difference?) and whose radius falls as 1/gamma. John W and
Martin proposed (1997) a double-looped photon model of the electron where the photon is uncharged (the effective electron’s charged is at the center of their model of a resting electron) and the energy of a moving electron falls off as 1/gamma. I propose a
generic double-looped charged photon that forms an electron where the trajectory of the moving electron falls off as 1/ gamma^2, but whose photon radius from its trajectory may depend on the specific model of the photon and for the TEQ model of the photon
falls off as 1/gamma, which dominates 1/gamma^2 at high electron velocities. Is this the current batch of electron theories you are referring to or are there others on your list? Only Vivian’s and my double-looping photon's are charged in this list. (I know
of other related models, like Hestenes' zitter model (though he doesn’t identify the helical light-speed charge in his electron model with a photon, and Rivas’s model, which is similar to that of Hestenes — it is also not a double-loop charged photon model.
Oliver Consa in Spain has a 2014 article “A helical model of the electron” at <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="http://vixra.org/pdf/1501.0028v1.pdf">
http://vixra.org/abs/1408.0203</a> which is a double-loop photon model (charged as I remember) which references the Williamson- van der Mark paper. An article by Grahame Blackwell on the closed-loop particle formation by photon is at <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="http://www.transfinitemind.com/cosmicasymmetry.htm">http://www.transfinitemind.com/cosmicasymmetry.htm</a> .
I’m not sure if his circulating photon is charged or not. Also I’m not sure where John M’s electron model fits into this picture.</span></div>
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<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style=""> You are assuming (below) that the photon is massless or has a perhaps very small mass. You are referring to the commonly known photon. But a charged photon would not necessarily
be massless. In my model, the charged photon modeling an electron has the rest mass of the electron.</span></div>
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<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style=""> Richard</span></div>
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<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span class="yiv4730905397"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;">David: The current batch of electron theories suggest that photons are confined, contained, and charged to form an electron. So a linear
path photon undergoes a transformation to a curved path charged photon that behaves like the electron. However, the photon is massless and the electron has a clearly defined mass. Perhaps we cannot measure the photon mass because it's so small. After all,
if there is any mass to the photon, then it might be possible to lower the mass even further and create the massless particle. </span></span><span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="">On May 26, 2015, at 5:05 AM, Andrew Meulenberg <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:mules333@gmail.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:mules333@gmail.com">mules333@gmail.com</a>>
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<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="">Dear David and Martin,</span></div>
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<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="">This exchange has just challenged me to re-examine some of my thinking.</span></div>
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<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="">Based on the paper that I will write for the conference (and another one* that I just submitted to arXiv and will submit to a journal), I will be proposing that mass and charge are
expressions of the same thing (not just both having energy). However, in a photon, the net charge is zero, but it has alternating fields (concentrated locally over an extended photon length). If the 'charge' reflected in the waves is alternating, does not
the mass also alternate? But, if it alternates + and - (to give a net-zero mass), how can the photon have inertia and momentum? How can it be measured when captured in Martin's box? I now have to assume that the mass must be related to the square (or absolute
value) of the charge. Is this not close to what John M. has proposed? Actually, the energy is proportional to the square of the fields, so this would be a natural conclusion that might be independent of John M.s model. But it does address, at least partially,
the nature of mass of a photon.</span></div>
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<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="">Since I have shown in the papers that relativistic mass is EM field energy, there are other implications as well.</span></div>
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<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="">Andrew</span></div>
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<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="">* I think that I posted an earlier draft of this. But, here is the latest version.</span></div>
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<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="">___________________________________________</span></div>
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<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="">On Tue, May 26, 2015 at 2:19 PM, Mark, Martin van der
<span class="yiv4730905397"><<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:martin.van.der.mark@philips.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:martin.van.der.mark@philips.com">martin.van.der.mark@philips.com</a>></span> wrote:</span></div>
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<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span class="yiv4730905397"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">Dear David,</span></span><span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span class="yiv4730905397"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">Light has mass, it is always the same: m=E/c^2 = hbar*omega or m=p/c=hbar*k. If it hits you, you will notice its momentum, hence its mass.
Only if you put it in a box you will really be able to experience the mass as gravitational, see “light is heavy” for a proper explanation of the relativistic facts and confusions. The reason is that with the box around it cannot fly away so that you will
not be able to interact with it to actually notice the mass.</span></span><span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span class="yiv4730905397"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">The experiments you mention do just that: making a box.</span></span><span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span class="yiv4730905397"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">Regards, Martin</span></span><span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span class="yiv4730905397"><span lang="DE" style="font-size:10.0pt;">Dr. Martin B. van der Mark</span></span><span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span class="yiv4730905397"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;">Principal Scientist, Minimally Invasive Healthcare</span></span><span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span class="yiv4730905397"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;">Philips Research Europe - Eindhoven</span></span><span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span class="yiv4730905397"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;">High Tech Campus, Building 34 (WB2.025)</span></span><span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span class="yiv4730905397"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;">Prof. Holstlaan 4</span></span><span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span class="yiv4730905397"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;">5656 AE Eindhoven, The Netherlands</span></span><span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span class="yiv4730905397"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;">Tel: +31 40 2747548</span></span><span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span class="yiv4730905397"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;">From:</span></b></span><span class="yiv4730905397"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;"> General [mailto:<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:general-bounces%2Bmartin.van.der.mark" target="_blank" href="mailto:general-bounces%2Bmartin.van.der.mark">general-bounces+martin.van.der.mark</a>=<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:philips.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:philips.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org">philips.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>David Mathes</span></span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;"><br clear="none">
<span class="yiv4730905397"><b>Sent:</b> dinsdag 26 mei 2015 6:29</span><br clear="none">
<span class="yiv4730905397"><b>To:</b> Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion</span><br clear="none">
<span class="yiv4730905397"><b>Subject:</b> Re: [General] Force Equations</span></span><span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span class="yiv4730905397"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;">John M., Andrew et al</span></span><span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span class="yiv4730905397"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;">If the gravitational component stops oscillating, then the non-oscillating component might provide insight into a stopped or frozen photon.</span></span><span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span class="yiv4730905397"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;">Does the Poynting vector disappear if there is no oscillation? That is, is the Poynting vector frequency dependent? </span></span><span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span class="yiv4730905397"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;">To examine this point, perhaps we need to move up to four-vector or full tensor at least for the theory</span></span><span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span class="yiv4730905397"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;">So far, photon-defined electron theories assume zero for the rest mass for the photon. If the photon has mass, one would expect charge.
If there is mass with no charge, we have some explaining to do. And better measurement of mass is required. So, if we could stop the photon and measure the mass - no matter how small but greater than zero - should we expect charge?</span></span><span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span class="yiv4730905397"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;">The current batch of electron theories suggest that photons are confined, contained, and charged to form an electron. So a linear path photon
undergoes a transformation to a curved path charged photon that behaves like the electron. However, the photon is massless and the electron has a clearly defined mass. Perhaps we cannot measure the photon mass because it's so small. After all, if there is
any mass to the photon, then it might be possible to lower the mass even further and create the massless particle. </span></span><span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span class="yiv4730905397"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;">If we could stop a photon and then restart the photon, one would expect the photon to continue on it's original vector. </span></span><span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span class="yiv4730905397"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;"> There are at least two papers where photons have been stopped or frozen. In the following experiment, light was stopped for about one minute.
This store-and-forward photon may be the basis of future quantum computing and communications systems. Then a few years later, a photon was "frozen" with an opaque crystal. To me, this trapping sounds like a squeezed state or a Glauber state.</span></span><span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span class="yiv4730905397"><b><span style="font-size:7.5pt;">Stopped Light and Image Storage by Electromagnetically Induced Transparency up to the Regime of One Minute</span></b></span><span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span class="yiv4730905397"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;"><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="http://journals.aps.org/prl/abstract/10.1103/PhysRevLett.111.033601">http://journals.aps.org/prl/abstract/10.1103/PhysRevLett.111.033601</a></span></span><span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span class="yiv4730905397"><b><span style="font-size:7.5pt;">Sept 8, 2014 Observation of a Dissipation-Induced Classical to Quantum Transition</span></b></span><span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span class="yiv4730905397"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;"><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="http://journals.aps.org/prx/abstract/10.1103/PhysRevX.4.031043">http://journals.aps.org/prx/abstract/10.1103/PhysRevX.4.031043</a></span></span><span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span class="yiv4730905397"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;">The mechanisms for stopping or freezing light aren't fully understood which may include CPT violation or other anomalies. One possibility
is the photon is in a squeezed state or a Glauber coherence state. If chirality suffers, the we have a parity violation resulting in CP or PT violations since CPT violations come in pairs. If charge is created by this stopped photon, is mass created? Then
we have CP and CT as options. </span></span><span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span class="yiv4730905397"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;">Photons are normally considered to be non-stop particles. However, in these two cases they appear more as direct flight particles with zero
mass that when released continue on.</span></span><span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span class="yiv4730905397"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;">Does a trapped photon have any rest mass? </span></span><span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span class="yiv4730905397"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;">How would a photon with a rest mass affect the photon-electron relationship?</span></span><span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span class="yiv4730905397"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;">Best</span></span><span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span class="yiv4730905397"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;">David</span></span><span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span class="yiv4730905397"><b><span style="font-size:7.5pt;">From:</span></b></span><span class="yiv4730905397"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;"> Andrew Meulenberg <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:mules333@gmail.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:mules333@gmail.com">mules333@gmail.com</a>></span></span><span style="font-size:7.5pt;"><br clear="none">
<span class="yiv4730905397"><b>To:</b> Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org">general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>>
</span><br clear="none">
<span class="yiv4730905397"><b>Sent:</b> Monday, May 25, 2015 8:07 PM</span><br clear="none">
<span class="yiv4730905397"><b>Subject:</b> Re: [General] Force Equations</span></span><span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span class="yiv4730905397"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;">Dear John M.,</span></span><span style="font-size:7.5pt;"><br clear="none">
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<span class="yiv4730905397">You may be saving me a lot of work. I was planning on working on super-gravity this year and was basing it on energy-density-induced non-linearities. You may have solved the problem, or at least laid the ground work, before I ever
get to it. Your statement "... gravitational waves require spacetime to have the specified
<u>energy density</u>... ," is definitely pushing in the right direction. General Relativity is concerned about mass. At the basic level, it is mass/energy density that controls the interactions. This goes to the nuclear levels, i.e., below the region of validity
for QM as we know it.</span><br clear="none">
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<span class="yiv4730905397">Your study of the various ratios, and the identification of relationships leads to a whole field of information that is to easy to overlook without your signposts.</span><br clear="none">
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<span class="yiv4730905397">Good luck,</span><br clear="none">
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<span class="yiv4730905397">Andrew</span></span><span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span class="yiv4730905397"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;">_________________________________________________________
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<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span class="yiv4730905397"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;">However, I have also had two other major successes which I will briefly mention here. In the future I will dedicate a separate email to
each of these other subjects. First, my son Jim, has generated computer simulations which show various characteristics of my particle model. Since my model quantifies frequency, amplitude and impedance, my models actually represent calculated effects. I
might be able to send some computer simulations tomorrow. </span></span><span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span class="yiv4730905397"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;">Another success is that I can now show that my model of fundamental particles gives new insights into the electric field and the gravitational
field generated by an electron or other fundamental particle. I previously concluded that an electron’s electric field contains both a non-oscillating strain of spacetime that produces most of the effects we associate with the electric field. However, there
is also an oscillating distortion of spacetime at the electron’s Compton frequency. We know the energy density of an electron’s electric field, the frequency and the impedance of spacetime, so we can calculate the amplitude of the wave required to produce
the known energy density of the electron’s electric field. This amplitude exactly corresponds to the expected magnitude and distribution expected from my particle model.
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<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span class="yiv4730905397"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;">The new gravitational insight is: I can now prove that gravity also has both a non-oscillating component that produces curved spacetime
and an oscillating component that implies that a gravitational field also has energy density. When you compare the energy density of a gravitational field to the “interactive energy density of spacetime”, it is possible to see how the combination produces
the curved spacetime.</span></span><span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span class="yiv4730905397"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;">The document attached above is a few pages out of the revised version of my book. These pages contain some recently added information and
some older information which was partly covered in a previous attachment. However, I decided to include some of that older information also since it sets the stage for the new information. I had to start somewhere, so the attachment starts in the middle
of the book. Even though there is a vast amount of missing information, I think that you will be able to get the key points from the attachment. </span></span><span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span class="yiv4730905397"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;">My approach based on spacetime allows much more detailed analysis than the rest of the group because I start with specific properties of
spacetime which can be quantified. I have dipole waves in spacetime which have specific frequencies, produce specific displacements of space and time and have dimensionless strain amplitudes which can be quantified. Combining this with the impedance of spacetime
and some equations that I have developed, it is possible to calculate particle size, energy, energy density, forces, etc. Most important, the approach predicts that the particles (called “rotars) can generate three forces which correspond to the strong force,
the electromagnetic force and gravity. In a previous post I gave some equations which showed previously unknown relationship between the gravitational force and the electrostatic force that were derived from my model. Now I have generated more equations which
specify the relationship between the electrostatic force and the gravitational force produced by fundamental particles such as an electron.
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<div class="yiv4730905397MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span class="yiv4730905397"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;">The attached document is 5 pages. The last 2 pages are totally new, but even the first 3 pages can be seen in a new light. You will see
that the relationship between the electrostatic force from charge<i> e</i> (designated
<i>F</i><sub>e</sub>) and the gravitational force (designated <i>F</i><sub>g</sub>) is independent of the model which made these predictions. However, the equations on the last two pages fit so well with my model, that they become a proof for the model.</span></span><span style=""></span></div>
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