<html><body><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:16px"><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434474634589_48733" dir="ltr"><font id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434474634589_52504" size="2">To: Pot<br></font></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434474634589_48733" dir="ltr"><span id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434474634589_49956"><font size="2" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434474634589_55933">From: Kettle</font></span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434474634589_48733" dir="ltr"><span id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434474634589_50313"><font size="2" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434474634589_55810">Subject: It's Seasoning</font></span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434474634589_48733"><span><font size="2"><br></font></span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434474634589_48733"><span id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434474634589_56297"><font size="2" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434474634589_56296">John</font></span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434474634589_48733"><span><font size="2"><br></font></span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434474634589_48733"><span><font size="2">Whoa...nice long reply...</font></span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434474634589_48733"><br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434474634589_48733" dir="ltr"><span id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434474634589_48849" class="" style=""><font size="2" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434474634589_52912" class="" style="">Thank you for the papers that will accelerate my thoughts and creativity a bit.</font></span><span style="font-size: small;" class="" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434474634589_54356"> </span><span style="font-size: small;" class="" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434474634589_54232">On the evolutionary scale of pivot thinking, I'm glad to to know that we are on the same frequency but I'm 30 light years behind. Kindly allow me a couple of days to make up the difference and catch up...</span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434474634589_48733" dir="ltr"><span><font size="2"><br></font></span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434474634589_48733" dir="ltr"><span id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434474634589_50693"><font size="2" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434474634589_54476">Now, back to the serious stuff...here is my first round, some quick comments in stream of consciousness format without reading attachments in detail. </font></span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434474634589_48733" dir="ltr"><span><font size="2"><br></font></span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434474634589_48733" dir="ltr" class="" style=""><font size="2" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434474634589_52911">The fun part about nonlinear theory is superposition no longer applies.</font></div><div dir="ltr" class="" style="" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434474634589_50456"><font size="2"><br class="" style=""></font></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434474634589_48733" dir="ltr"><font id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434474634589_52508" size="2"><span style="font-family: Times;" class="" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434474634589_52303">>Sphere and torus are both p</span><span style="font-family: Times;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434474634589_52507">rojections of higher dimensional spheres.</span></font></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434474634589_48733" dir="ltr"><font size="2"><br></font></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434474634589_48733" dir="ltr"><font id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434474634589_52509" size="2"><span class="" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434474634589_51315">An extreme variation of a ring torus, c</span>ylinders and flat washer rings are also parametric projections of higher dimensional spheres,</font></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434474634589_51435"><font size="2"><br></font></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434474634589_51435"><font size="2" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434474634589_52781">So, it's not clear how to manipulate the equation you have proposed. </font></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434474634589_51435"><font size="2"><br></font></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434474634589_51436" dir="ltr"><font size="2" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434474634589_57919"><span style="font-family: Times;" class="" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434474634589_58047">> Sp = E X B + EP </span><br></font></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434474634589_51436" dir="ltr"><span style="font-family: Times;" class=""><font size="2"><br></font></span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434474634589_51436" dir="ltr"><font size="2" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434474634589_52660">Nice. So, mathematically we might be able to say...</font></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434474634589_51436" dir="ltr"><span style="font-family: Times;" class=""><font size="2"><br></font></span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434474634589_51436" dir="ltr"><span style="font-family: Times;" class="" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434474634589_51927"><font size="2" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434474634589_57311">B = (Sp-EP) X E </font></span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434474634589_51436"><font size="2"><br></font></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434474634589_51436" dir="ltr"><font face="Times" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434474634589_52300" size="2">E = B X (Sp-EP)</font></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434474634589_51436" dir="ltr"><span style="font-size: small;"><br></span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434474634589_51436" dir="ltr"><span style="font-size: small;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434474634589_52539">Is that correct? If so, the consider the</span><span style="font-size: small;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434474634589_59752"> possibility to have B and E pivot terms</span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434474634589_51436" dir="ltr"><span style="font-size: small;"><br></span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434474634589_51436" dir="ltr"><span style="font-family: Times; font-size: small;" class="" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434474634589_57432">Bp-EPb = S X E</span><span style="font-size: small;"><br></span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434474634589_51436" dir="ltr"><span style="font-size: small;"><br></span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434474634589_51436" dir="ltr"><span style="font-size: small;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434474634589_57557">Ep-EPe = B X S</span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434474634589_51436" dir="ltr"><span style="font-size: small;"><br></span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434474634589_51436" dir="ltr"><span style="font-size: small;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434474634589_55809">The pivot term is rather interesting, sort of a squeezed state term which may lead to coherent states. Of course, this leads us to multiple pivot terms. </span><span style="font-size: small;" class="" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434474634589_59392">While unlikely, but not necessarily impossible...</span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434474634589_51436" dir="ltr" class="" style=""><span style="font-size: small;" class=""><br class="" style=""></span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434474634589_51436" dir="ltr" class="" style=""><span id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434474634589_57797" style="font-size: small;" class="">? Sp - EPs = (E</span><span class="" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434474634589_57804" style="font-size: small;">p - EPe) X (B</span><span class="" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434474634589_57803" style="font-size: small;">p - EPb)</span></div><div dir="ltr" class="" style="" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434474634589_58544"><br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434474634589_51436" dir="ltr"><span style="font-size: small;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434474634589_54829">When you speak of Maxwell equations, is that the M4 (2nd edition Heaviside) or M20 (1st edition)...and does M20 even make a difference? I realize it's probably the M4 but some theories propose a new and improved set of Maxwell equations so context is important.</span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434474634589_51436" dir="ltr"><span style="font-size: small;"><br></span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434474634589_51436" dir="ltr"><span style="font-size: small;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434474634589_59023">Once we begin to look at 4D models, I'm concerned with hidden variables and emergent properties. Furthermore, I am reminded by an expert aerospace engineer that due to field theory, one might need to break out magnetism as a fifth force. At least two other forces may be possible at some scale. Whether these forces can be attributed to elementary particles themselves or a quanta construction set for elementary particles remains to be seen. </span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434474634589_51436" dir="ltr"><span style="font-size: small;"><br></span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434474634589_51436" dir="ltr"><span style="font-size: small;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434474634589_59996">Pivoting is emerging as an important naming of a candidate process. The starting and stopping of pivoting is essential to differentiate pivoting from vortex theory.</span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434474634589_51436" dir="ltr"><span style="font-size: small;"><br></span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434474634589_51436" dir="ltr"><span style="font-size: small;">David</span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434474634589_51436" dir="ltr"><span style="font-size: small;"><br></span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434474634589_51436" dir="ltr"><span style="font-size: small;"><br></span></div> <blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255); margin-left: 5px; margin-top: 5px; padding-left: 5px;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434474634589_48601"> <div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434474634589_48600"> <div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434474634589_48599"> <div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434474634589_48598"> <hr size="1" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434474634589_49223"> <font size="2" face="Arial" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434474634589_48602"> <b id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434474634589_51305"><span style="font-weight:bold;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434474634589_51304">From:</span></b> John Williamson <John.Williamson@glasgow.ac.uk><br> <b id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434474634589_58546"><span style="font-weight: bold;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434474634589_58545">To:</span></b> David Mathes <davidmathes8@yahoo.com>; Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion <general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org> <br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Tuesday, June 16, 2015 11:48 AM<br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Pivot in the new theory of light and matter<br> </font> </div> <div class="y_msg_container" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434474634589_48853"><br><div id="yiv2445987559">
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal" style="" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434474634589_48850"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Times;" lang="EN-US">Dear
David (and everyone) ..</span></div>
<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal" style="" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434474634589_50320"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Times;" lang="EN-US" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434474634589_50319">Please
find attached two preprints, one on the new theory of light and matter presented last year in Marseille at FFP14, the other an update of the draft paper
</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Times;" lang="EN-US" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434474634589_50321"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Times;" lang="EN-US" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434474634589_52533">I
posted for comment earlier</span> on photon quantisation from the underlying relativistic nature of space and time.<br>
</span></div>
<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal" style="" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434474634589_48855"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Times;" lang="EN-US" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434474634589_48854">I had
intended to get round to replying to you, to Richard and to comment on the (very beautiful) video posts of John M’s stuff . I may not get round to all of what I would like to do though.</span></div>
<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal" style="" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434474634589_48856"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Times;" lang="EN-US" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434474634589_48857">David,
I had missed your first post an comments on the “pivot” in the snow of emails and the rush to finish this round of exams. I am now on annual leave – and hence have a bit of time to do a bit of proper work. Hihi … very nice indeed. I love your creativity and
getting some insight into your thinking on what the pivot might be. Some of the ideas you came up with sounded similar to my initial thinking on how things turned, in my old theory back in the eighties when I was at CERN.</span></div>
<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal" style="" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434474634589_49344"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Times;" lang="EN-US" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434474634589_49343">Some
of your subsequent emails referred to what you had said earlier and, out of context, were a bit confusing for me. Likewise, what I am saying will be, without reference to the framework of the new theory and the new differential equations therein, pretty incomprehensible.</span></div>
<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal" style="" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434474634589_48985"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Times;" lang="EN-US" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434474634589_48984">But no
– that is not what I was talking about at all. I was writing, specifically, the concept of “pivot” in the context of the new, extended, theory of classical electromagnetism I am in the process of developing, aspects of which were presented last year at FFP14
(preprint attached).<span style=""> </span>The pivot concept has also been talked about, in the context of forces at MENDEL2012 or before at a series of lectures here in Glasgow, at a Maxwell Society lecture in London in 2009 and at the Cybernetics
conference there. The earlier work was in the context of a (more complicated) nonlinear theory Martin and I have been working on for some time. We are still trying to progress
<span style=""> </span>that as well, though with mundane work commitments we have had very little time. My concept of pivot in the earlier work was anyway (very slightly) different, as our thinking has moved on a lot since then, so it is better
to stick to the work in the current, linear, theory.</span></div>
<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal" style="" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434474634589_49469"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Times;" lang="EN-US" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434474634589_49468">Like
me, <span style=""> </span>you have not had time to follow everything and, in particular, you have not yet found time to take on board all the papers I have posted. This will have made a good few of the comments I have made pretty incomprehensible.
I have attached the relevant preprints (one updated) for convenience if anyone wants to know more about what I am talking about and/or make any further comments.
</span></div>
<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal" style="" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434474634589_49590"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Times;" lang="EN-US" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434474634589_49589">I agree
with you that we need to become more rigorous in our discussion. I agree wholeheartedly that we all need to make more effort in defining what we are talking about, otherwise we will get mired in tiresome discussions of the meaning of terms. I’m afraid this
means, practically, that we reference what we are talking about where possible, to the proper theory and to the proper mathematics. For example, when Richard talks about the equation governing his “charged photon” as being the Schrodinger equation – we then
know that the rigorous behavior of charged photon fluid is, for him, the same as the probability density squared in Schroedinger quantum mechanics. One can then discuss this without the words getting in the way. We can then waste less time wondering just what
each other are talking about. As one of the worst offenders in the confusion stakes this may sound a bit like the pot calling the kettle black- but I am trying now and will try to do better in future!
</span></div>
<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal" style="" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434474634589_49711"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Times;" lang="EN-US" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434474634589_49710">The new
theory, aspects of which are covered in the attached preprints, is in conventional terms a set of eight, coupled linear differential equations. They encompass the Maxwell equations. They are better written, however, as a single linear differential equations
over space and time. In this sense, the new theory has as a basis the proper relativistic properties of space and time. Built in.</span></div>
<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal" style="" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434474634589_49827"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Times;" lang="EN-US" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434474634589_49826">Written
as a single equation, the new equation looks similar (and is similar) to the Dirac equation. It is more comprehensive, however, and considers mass, charge, current electric field, magnetic field and three other (unfamiliar to most) kinds of quantities – one
corresponding to an intrinsic angular momentum density, another to an directed volume (we hall it a hedgehog as it is either inward or outward directed in 3d space) and the other to a kind of four dimensional hedgehog (which may also be inward or outward directed
and acts a bit like the complex scalar i). I know this is hard guys – but understanding just how the universe works was never going to by easy!</span></div>
<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal" style="" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434474634589_50932"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Times;" lang="EN-US" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434474634589_50931">The new
theory, rather than needing to posit spinors, derives them. Like the Dirac equation it has at the simplest level just four solutions, corresponding to double-covering field-pivot vortices in 4-momentum space. One pair is negatively charged, the other positive.
In each pair there is an intrinsic spin which can be either leftwards or rightwards. From the perspective of the new theory, where Dirac initially went wrong was in his assignment of the intrinsic nature of mass in his (too large) algebra.
</span></div>
<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal" style="" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434474634589_50937"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Times;" lang="EN-US" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434474634589_50936">The fact
that the solutions are vortices in momentum space and not space-space means one has to look at a projection to see what they look like in space. This is why they can be both spherical and toroidal. Sphere and torus are both projections of higher dimensional
spheres.</span></div>
<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal" style="" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434474634589_50934"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Times;" lang="EN-US" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434474634589_50935">In the
simplest extension of the new theory over and above Maxwell, my concept of the “pivot” acts as a seventh dynamical
<span style=""> </span>“field” component. This is the “P” term in the differential equations in the two papers attached.
</span></div>
<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal" style="" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434474634589_50933"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Times;" lang="EN-US" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434474634589_51437">Unfortunately,
it is the paper yet to come though, on the photon and electron, which has not been drafted yet, which will explain the pivot aspect in more detail. Though, in some senses, I should be working on doing that rather than writing this email – this process is helping
to clarify my thoughts on explaining myself. This is a job for the next few weeks.</span></div>
<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal" style="" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434474634589_51552"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Times;" lang="EN-US" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434474634589_51553">The draft
photon quantization paper (attached) now has a note on the Phat photons David M picked up, which I have now referenced (thanks to David).
<span style=""> </span>There has been some revision, to explain points of confusion arising in the discussion with this group.</span></div>
<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal" style="" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434474634589_51560"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Times;" lang="EN-US" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434474634589_51559">In the
new theory, the pivot, like the electric and magnetic fields, is smooth and continuous and can take any value. This value is usually zero in free space since it is strongly scavenged by existing material particles – which absorb it as low-energy heat.
<span style=""> </span>In contrast to the proper nature of the electric and magnetic fields (tensor or bi-vector components) the pivot is a Lorentz invariant scalar transforming like a rest-mass. It is next to impossible to produce and measure
free pivot (if it exists at all) as it would rapidly be sucked into anything that looks like a pre-existing particle (such as any measurement equipment). If it exists anywhere in the universe it would need to be far from existing matter. It could then constitute
a candidate for dark matter – which may itself be worth a paper suggesting this possibility (I’m happy to co-author one such with any of you with expertise in cosmology or astrophysics).</span></div>
<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal" style="" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434474634589_51675"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Times;" lang="EN-US" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434474634589_51676">So –
how does the new theory introduce forces strong enough to constrain light? Briefly, the Poynting vector usually is S = E X B, representing a kind of field momentum density … within the new theory this gets an extra term such that Sp = E X B +EP, where P is
this new Pivot term (which is always zero for free space). It is this product of electric field and pivot which is related to the confinement force (force density components arise form its 4-differential). Now the difference between this rest mass density
in the new theory and in that of Dirac, for example, is that here the Pivot is dynamical – in the same way that E and B satisfy a differential equation with respect to both space and time, so too does the pivot (you need to look at the equations in the paper).
The rate of change of pivot is related to the charge. This makes (QED) sense as it constitutes mass-energy exchange. Clearly, from the equation its effect is to introduce curvature into the momentum density flow, as it is in the direction of the electric field,
which is perpendicular to the Poynting vector. In the presence of pivot the direction of momentum transport curves smoothly, which is why I called it the pivot. If you get enough pivot, the idea is that the field may propagate round and round in circles in
an electro-pivot-magnetic vortex. An elementary (rest) massive particle. The pivot-electric effect does not stop the magneto-electric flow, merely turns (pivots) it. Enough pivot is not a very great deal – the same order of magnitude as the magnetic field
(with which it shares the same physical units) will suffice. <span style="">
</span>It is then the interaction between the electric field and the pivot (as in the equation above) that provides a confinement mechanism for something that is no longer light (though related), but now an electron. There are a further set of particles with
tighter twists. These have the mass spectrum of the higher leptons (the muon and tauon).</span></div>
<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal" style="" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434474634589_52897"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Times;" lang="EN-US" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434474634589_52896">The differential
of the momentum is, of course, a confining force. The radius of curvature sets a size scale. Though the curvature is in a peculiar (4-momentum) space this may be expressed in metres and is lcom/ 4pi. The thing is self-confined partly because the pivot is two
differential orders away from the field, and hence is 180 degrees out of phase. More pivot means more mass, a tighter curve and hence a smaller object (as is observed). Similar objects all have the same mass, if charged, because they can exchange mass-energy
with one another through photon exchange and hence equilibrate.<span style="">
</span>It is all very very beautiful!</span></div>
<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal" style="" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434474634589_52904"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Times;" lang="EN-US" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434474634589_52903">Just
for information this note (and the preprints) is intended to be forwarded to other people in a few other groups who may be interested and with whom I am currently corresponding (mostly people copied in earlier emails. including Tony Booth, Basil Hiley, Roger
Penrose, Michael Wright and Alex Afriat but also some folk in another study group Martin and I belong to).
</span></div>
<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal" style="" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434474634589_52905"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Times;" lang="EN-US" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434474634589_52906">It strikes
me that Andrew is right that we, as a group, may need more interaction after San Diego, both within our group and with an extended group including the people mentioned above and others each of you may know. Anyone interested in organizing a conference or workshop
in Europe perhaps? Anyone prepared to help with trying to find funding for travel and so on? I would do it, but I have so very little time now and no talent for organizing anything (even myself!). I need to conserve as much energy and time as possible into
scraping a little time together to develop and promote the new theory. We could hold it here in Scotland in Edinburgh or Glasgow, or in Oxford or Cambridge, Amsterdam, Brno or Prague perhaps? Some of us are anyway trying to organize a European group to further
the new physics. The European members of the group may wish to get involved with this for the next round of funding. Some of you may also have industrial contacts willing to help sponsor such an effort in return for participation and interaction with the group.
All are welcome! My experience in the past is if we can get a few people on board it can rapidly snowball. Networking at the conference can help – but it is always better to prepare the ground beforehand.</span></div>
<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal" style=""><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Times;" lang="EN-US">Regards,
John W.</span></div>
<div style="font-family:Times New Roman;color:#000000;font-size:16px;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434474634589_57922">
<hr tabindex="-1">
<div style="direction:ltr;" id="yiv2445987559divRpF955926"><font face="Tahoma" color="#000000" size="2"><b>From:</b> General [general-bounces+john.williamson=glasgow.ac.uk@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org] on behalf of David Mathes [davidmathes8@yahoo.com]<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, June 11, 2015 6:36 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [General] Photon<br>
</font><br>
</div>
<div></div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434474634589_57921">
<div style="color:#000;background-color:#fff;font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:16px;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434474634589_57920">
<div><span>Nick and John,</span></div>
<div><span><br>
</span></div>
<div><span>I'm wondering where the pivot point is precisely.</span></div>
<div><span><br>
</span></div>
<div><span>Could there be multiple points that are condition dependent?</span></div>
<div><span><br>
</span></div>
<div dir="ltr"><span>In some models, spacetime appears to interact with the photon. Is this pivoting too.</span></div>
<div dir="ltr"><span><br>
</span></div>
<div dir="ltr"><span>David</span></div>
<br>
<blockquote id="yiv2445987559yui_3_16_0_1_1434038462696_111103" style="border-left:2px solid rgb(16,16,255);margin-left:5px;margin-top:5px;padding-left:5px;">
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<hr size="1">
<font id="yiv2445987559yui_3_16_0_1_1434038462696_111344" face="Arial" size="2"><b><span style="font-weight:bold;">From:</span></b> Nick Green <nick_green@blueyonder.co.uk><br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold;">To:</span></b> Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion <general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org>
<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold;">Sent:</span></b> Thursday, June 11, 2015 10:33 AM<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [General] Photon<br>
</font></div>
<div class="yiv2445987559y_msg_container" id="yiv2445987559yui_3_16_0_1_1434038462696_111100"><br>
<div id="yiv2445987559">
<div id="yiv2445987559yui_3_16_0_1_1434038462696_111099">One might say the photon path bends in the electric field of the pivot and, if energy sufficient, may close to form coherent matter and anti-matter. So how many spins or sine waves are needed to model this and what
are their frequencies and phase relationhips?<br>
<br>
Best<br>
<br>
N.<br>
<br>
<div class="yiv2445987559moz-cite-prefix" id="yiv2445987559yui_3_16_0_1_1434038462696_111345">
On 10/06/2015 09:20, John Williamson wrote:<br>
</div>
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Hello David and everyone. <br>
<br>
You are right that most of the models do not cite a mechanism for changing the nature of the photon to that of the electron. This is a huge problem. Photon go (fast!) in straight lines. Electrons just sit there going round and round in circles. They are very
different!<br>
<br>
It is worrying about this and trying to find solutions to it, that have kept Martin and myself busy for the last couple of decades. We have made loads of models, and have introduced forces in several different ways.<br>
<br>
My new theory is one case that does have (self) confinement forces. The new scalar invariant mass density term, the pivot, introduces a new factor into the momentum density flow (the Poynting vector for pure field). The derivative of this is a radial force
- a confinement force in other words. An element of the Poincare stresses then. In fact the force is such that one gets precisely a radial electric field for a re-circulating field and a double-loop (with half-integral spin). Absolutely beautiful!<br>
<br>
The picture is as follows. No pivot - momentum in straight lines - pure field photons.<br>
<br>
Bit of pivot, photon moves (a little) helically . no big deal.<br>
<br>
Lots of pivot ... same thing.<br>
<br>
Enough pivot plus initial counter-propagating photons. Possibility of vortex and anti-vortex. Charge-anticharge pair both with pivot of same order as magnetic field. Stable, charged, half-integral spin, recirculating self-confined system. An electron and a
positron.<br>
<br>
Look carefully at the paper I circulated. It is in there. Not very well explained, obviously. I will do better next time with all this input!<br>
<br>
Cheers, John.<br>
<div style="font-family:Times New Roman;color:#000000;font-size:16px;">
<hr tabindex="-1">
<div id="yiv2445987559divRpF939444" style="direction:ltr;"><font face="Tahoma" color="#000000" size="2"><b>From:</b> General [<a rel="nofollow" class="yiv2445987559moz-txt-link-abbreviated" ymailto="mailto:general-bounces+john.williamson=glasgow.ac.uk@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:general-bounces+john.williamson=glasgow.ac.uk@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org">general-bounces+john.williamson=glasgow.ac.uk@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>]
on behalf of David Mathes [<a rel="nofollow" class="yiv2445987559moz-txt-link-abbreviated" ymailto="mailto:davidmathes8@yahoo.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:davidmathes8@yahoo.com">davidmathes8@yahoo.com</a>]<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, June 10, 2015 7:55 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [General] Photon<br>
</font><br>
</div>
<div>
<div style="color:#000;background-color:#fff;font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:16px;">
<div><span>John</span></div>
<div><span><br>
</span></div>
<div dir="ltr" id="yiv2445987559yui_3_16_0_1_1433913911068_11269"><span id="yiv2445987559yui_3_16_0_1_1433913911068_11268">I like the simplicity of the photon in the electron circulating at c. However, no mechanism is cited for getting from photon to electron.
The evidence is in the stars. Photons appear to travel a very long way without turning into electrons. Is this just spontaneous photon conversion to electron, a whim of nature?</span></div>
<div id="yiv2445987559yui_3_16_0_1_1433913911068_11267"><br>
</div>
<div id="yiv2445987559yui_3_16_0_1_1433913911068_11987">The difficulty with a c-only velocity in the electron is that it would seem that c-average velocity would meet the criteria as well. Now this implies there is may be a Lorentz contraction, and also the
improbability - not impossibility - of a transluminal photon/quanta within. Once we have eliminated everything else, whatever remains no matter how improbable, must be a truth, perhaps even the truth. </div>
<div id="yiv2445987559yui_3_16_0_1_1433913911068_11988"><br>
</div>
<div id="yiv2445987559yui_3_16_0_1_1433913911068_11988">The self-interaction aspect smells of acceleration somewhere in all this. And in a circulating photon one of the few requirements is to explain conservation of total angular momentum which seems to be
the key criteria especially with a instant c-velocity only model. Could it be there is a missed interpretation of averaged c-velocity only model as a instant c-velocity model. Perhaps we need to define the total angular momentum within the electron more clearly
and precisely.</div>
<div id="yiv2445987559yui_3_16_0_1_1433913911068_11989" dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div id="yiv2445987559yui_3_16_0_1_1433913911068_11989" dir="ltr">IMHO we need to consider and examine every electron model to see if there is any acceleration by the photon. </div>
<div id="yiv2445987559yui_3_16_0_1_1433913911068_11989" dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div id="yiv2445987559yui_3_16_0_1_1433913911068_11989" dir="ltr">Seriously, how does on make the leap from a plain photon to the photon curving and interacting with itself. Is there some DNA that tells a photon internally to become an electron? Is there something
external acting as a catalyst? Is there a process which combines both in a two step process?</div>
<div id="yiv2445987559yui_3_16_0_1_1433913911068_11989" dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div id="yiv2445987559yui_3_16_0_1_1433913911068_11989" dir="ltr">Then there is the question of superposition for uncharge photons while charged photons as electrons can overlap under the right conditions and in multiple ways. Of course this begs the question
of when does superposition fail.</div>
<div id="yiv2445987559yui_3_16_0_1_1433913911068_11989" dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div id="yiv2445987559yui_3_16_0_1_1433913911068_11989" dir="ltr">David</div>
<div id="yiv2445987559yui_3_16_0_1_1433913911068_11989" dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
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</div>
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</div>
<div id="yiv2445987559yui_3_16_0_1_1433913911068_11993"><br>
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<font id="yiv2445987559yui_3_16_0_1_1433913911068_10784" face="Arial" size="2"><b><span style="font-weight:bold;">From:</span></b> John Duffield
<a rel="nofollow" class="yiv2445987559moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" ymailto="mailto:johnduffield@btconnect.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:johnduffield@btconnect.com">
<johnduffield@btconnect.com></a><br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold;">To:</span></b> 'Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion'
<a rel="nofollow" class="yiv2445987559moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" ymailto="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org">
<general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org></a> <br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold;">Sent:</span></b> Tuesday, June 9, 2015 11:20 PM<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [General] Photon<br>
</font></div>
<div class="yiv2445987559y_msg_container" id="yiv2445987559yui_3_16_0_1_1433913911068_12349">
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<b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">Richard:</span></b></div>
<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal" id="yiv2445987559yui_3_16_0_1_1433913911068_12350">
<b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;"> </span></b></div>
<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal" id="yiv2445987559yui_3_16_0_1_1433913911068_12355">
<b id="yiv2445987559yui_3_16_0_1_1433913911068_12354"><span id="yiv2445987559yui_3_16_0_1_1433913911068_12353" style="font-size:11.0pt;">The 511keV photon confines itself. There isn’t anything else there. It’s like a photon in a box of its own making, see Martin’s
<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="http://www.tardyon.de/mirror/hooft/hooft.htm">
light is heavy</a>. Light <i>is</i> displacement current, and it displaces its own path into a closed path. But then we don’t call it a photon, we call it an electron. However we can still diffract it. It still has a wave nature. But it isn’t moving linearly
at c, it’s going round and round at c. Photon momentum is a measure of resistance to change-in-motion for a wave moving linearly at c. Electron mass is a measure of resistance to change-in-motion for a wave going round and round at c. That’s it. It’s that
simple. Hence <i id="yiv2445987559yui_3_16_0_1_1433913911068_14881">the mass of a body is a measure of its energy-content</i>. That’s what
<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="http://www.fourmilab.ch/etexts/einstein/E_mc2/www/">
E=mc ²</a> is all about, Einstein even talks about the electron on the same line as he talks about a body. And I’m afraid the Higgs mechanism contradicts it. When it’s an electron, the511keV photon has mass because it’s interacting with itself, not with cosmic
treacle. </span></b></div>
<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;"> </span></b></div>
<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">Regards</span></b></div>
<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">John D</span></b></div>
<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;"> </span></b></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;"> </span></div>
<div class="yiv2445987559qtdSeparateBR"><br>
<br>
</div>
<div class="yiv2445987559yqt5843758027" id="yiv2445987559yqt25660">
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;" lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;" lang="EN-US"> General [<a rel="nofollow" class="yiv2445987559moz-txt-link-freetext" ymailto="mailto:general-bounces+johnduffield=btconnect.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:general-bounces+johnduffield=btconnect.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org">mailto:general-bounces+johnduffield=btconnect.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>]<b>On
Behalf Of </b>Richard Gauthier<br clear="none">
<b>Sent:</b> 10 June 2015 02:39<br clear="none">
<b>To:</b> Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion<br clear="none">
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [General] Photon</span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal"> </div>
<div>
<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal">Hi John,</div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal"> </div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal">I think it may be a mistake to call an object a “confined photon” if you mean that a photon is “unconfined” and moving linearly with no rest mass until it becomes “confined” and then the system of “confinement” + photon
has a rest mass and this rest mass is attributed purely to the “confinement mechanism” and not to the to the “otherwise free” photon still moving at c while it is being confined. </div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal"> </div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal">Rather, the rest mass of an object, whether a circularly moving photon, a helically moving photon or a linearly moving photon is the real quantitative measure of its “confinement", so that “confinement” and “inertia” mean
the same thing— both refer to the rest mass of the object. Someone could claim that a photon moving in a straight line is also “confined” to move in this straight line, but this linear confinement carries no rest mass with it and so you would say that this
photon is not confined at all. Someone could also claim that a photon moving by itself in a helical trajectory is no more confined than a photon moving in a straight line — but their rest masses are different and you would I think say that the helically moving
photon is more confined that the photon moving in a straight line. Anyone can argue about what one mean by confinement and how one should measure it. </div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal"> </div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal">A particular photon moving in a helical trajectory at any longitudinal speed less than c (such as the proposed charged photon model of the electron moving at different relativistic velocities) has a rest mass and this rest
mass is exactly the same rest mass as when the photon (as seen from a different moving reference frame) moves in a double-looped circle and you call it an electron. So does the confinement of an object change when you pass by it at different speeds? That
doesn’t seem logical. And the rest mass of the helically moving photon is the same rest mass mo as the rest mass of the corresponding circularly moving photon, because the rest mass of this confined photon is relativistically invariant as you say. You might
say that there is a “confining” force in the physical world. But someone might say that this is just the Higgs field that gives rest mass to otherwise massless objects. So again, what is the difference between the rest mass and the degree of confinement of
a particle, if any?</div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal"> </div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal"> best regards, Richard</div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal"> </div>
</div>
<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal"> </div>
<div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt;">
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal">On May 31, 2015, at 5:42 PM, John Williamson <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:John.Williamson@glasgow.ac.uk" target="_blank" href="mailto:John.Williamson@glasgow.ac.uk">John.Williamson@glasgow.ac.uk</a>> wrote:</div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;">Dear all,<br clear="none">
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I have the feeling that you are getting mixed up with splitting things into other things as though this means something. Martin is right. Light remains light. A photon goes from emitter to absorber --- boom. If light is in a box it remains light. It continues,
in flight to be rest-massless. It is the whole system that exhibits the PROPERTIES of a rest mass, by virtue of the confinement.<span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"> </span><br clear="none">
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The rest-mass is DEFINED as the square root of the 4-momentum squared (in proper units). For any particle this is just what you get by looking at it at rest. This is a Lorentz invariant quantity. For a particle some of this may be rest-mass mass, some confined
field, some the confinement mechanism itself (whatever that is). It all appears on the weighing scale.<br clear="none">
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In QED this value, for the virtual photons responsible for electromagnetic attraction or repulsion may be positive (repulsion) or negative (attraction). Yes, negative mass! This does not mean there is an actual little lump of negative mass that has just come
about. You need to consider the whole process not keep trying to split it into bits like lego. The value is defined by the properties of the light AND the box. For virtual particle exchange attraction one can also see it as field cancellation. That is the
negative bit. It isn't magic. Just because you can write down an equation for mass does not make it appear as a bit of mass with a label "mass" on it!<br clear="none">
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Indeed, as light slows in a crystal there is an energy associated with the photon, but equally with the (partial) confinement of it by the crystal. It makes no sense to ascribe this wholly to the one or the other. If the light circulates with total internal
reflection you could weigh it on a scale. If it was a short laser pulse the crystal would jump up and down as it went round and round - in principle you could measure this too.<br clear="none">
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It is just confusing yourself to insist on things becoming other things, with other properties. Analogies are nice, but not if they confuse you. A zig-zagging photon, free to escape up or down, is confined slightly differently to a wholly confined one. This
is due to the properties of the confinement- not the properties of the photon. If its wholly confined - and smooth you will weigh the whole photon energy as rest mass, even though the photon is not itself rest-massive.<br clear="none">
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Regards, John W.</span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;">From:</span></b><span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;"> </span></span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;">General [<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:general-bounces+john.williamson=glasgow.ac.uk@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:general-bounces+john.williamson=glasgow.ac.uk@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org">general-bounces+john.williamson=glasgow.ac.uk@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>]
on behalf of Mark, Martin van der [<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:martin.van.der.mark@philips.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:martin.van.der.mark@philips.com">martin.van.der.mark@philips.com</a>]<br clear="none">
<b>Sent:</b><span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"> </span>Monday, June 01, 2015 1:06 AM<br clear="none">
<b>To:</b><span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"> </span>Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion<br clear="none">
<b>Subject:</b><span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [General] Photon</span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal">Richard, the photon itself, or light, never has a rest mass, it is going at light speed, that is what light does. </div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal">The box plus photon does have a rest mass, equal to the mass of the box plus the energy of the photon devided by c squared.</div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal">You have to be precise with these things!!!!</div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal">Just read light is heavy of you want to know hoe reflections work,</div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal">Best, Martin<br clear="none">
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Verstuurd vanaf mijn iPhone</div>
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Op 1 jun. 2015 om 01:56 heeft Richard Gauthier <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:richgauthier@gmail.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:richgauthier@gmail.com">richgauthier@gmail.com</a>> het volgende geschreven:</div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal">John W, John D, and Martin and others,</div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal">I agree with John D here: ( "<span style="font-size:11.0pt;">But check out photon effective mass. If you slow down a photon to less than c, some of its energy-momentum is exhibited as mass. And there’s a sliding scale in between
the two extremes.</span><span style="font-size:11.5pt;">”</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;"> )</span> If a photon of energy E has an extended straight trajectory, it has no rest mass. If a photon of energy E is reflecting back and forth perpendicularly in
a mirror-box between parallel mirrors, it has a rest mass E/c^2. If a photon of energy E=mc^2=hf is circling in a closed circular loop or double-loop (as in various models of an electron) it has rest mass m= E/c^2 = 0.511 MeV/c^2 . I think we all agree on
this. </div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal">Now suppose a photon is zig-zagging between two parallel mirrors where at each reflection the angle that the photon makes with a mirror's surface is Theta. Then the photon has a longitudinal average velocity between the
parallel mirrors of v = c cos (Theta), or cos (Theta) = v/c . Theta = 90 degrees corresponds to a photon reflecting perpendicularly in a mirror-box where the photon's rest mass m is E/c^2, and v=0. Theta = 0 degrees corresponds to a photon traveling in an
extended straight trajectory parallel to the two mirrors in some direction, and in this case the photon's rest mass m is zero, and v=c . I found this morning that for any Theta between 0 and 90 degrees, a zig-zag reflecting photon of energy E=hf and angle
Theta has a rest mass of M= (E/c^2) sin (Theta)= E/(gamma c^2) since when cos(Theta)=v/c, then sin (Theta) = 1/gamma. This relationship is the case for relativistic velocities also. So for example for a zig-zagging photon of energy E=hf, if Theta = 30 degrees,
then v/c = cos(Theta)= 0.866, sin(Theta) = 0.5 and gamma = 2 . The rest mass M of this zig-zagging photon of energy E=hf is then M = E/(gamma c^2) = hf/(2 c^2) = 0.5 hf/c^2 . </div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal">This M=(E/c^2) sin(Theta) relationship for a zig-zagging photon also applies to the helically circulating (with helical angle Theta) charged photon model of the relativistic electron, where the circulating charged photon
of energy E=hf=gamma m c^2 is always found with this method to have a rest mass of M = (E/c^2) sin (Theta) = (gamma m c^2)/(gamma c^2) = m = 0.511 Mev/c^2.</div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal">So John D’s sliding scale for the rest mass M of a zig-zagging photon of energy E , speed c and longitudinal velocity v, is M=(E/c^2) sin (Theta) = E/(gamma c^2). Can anyone verify this sliding scale relation, or contradict
it (with calculations)?</div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal"> Richard</div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal">On May 31, 2015, at 2:01 AM, John Duffield <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:johnduffield@btconnect.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:johnduffield@btconnect.com">johnduffield@btconnect.com</a>> wrote:</div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:10.0pt;"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">John W:</span><span style=""></span></div>
<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:10.0pt;"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">A little feedback. IMHO it’s important, so bear with me:</span><span style=""></span></div>
<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;"><span style="" lang="EN-US">If it has rest-mass it is not a photon.<span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span style=""></span></div>
<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">If you slow down a photon to an effective speed of zero because you trap it in a mirror-box, all of its energy-momentum is exhibited as mass. Photon momentum is
a measure of resistance to change-in-motion for a wave moving linearly at c, whilst electron mass is a measure of resistance to change-in-motion for a wave going round and round at c. But check out photon effective mass. If you slow down a photon to less
than c, some of its energy-momentum is exhibited as mass. And there’s a sliding scale in between the two extremes. So if the speed of a photon in free space were to vary for some reason, its mass would vary. Of course this doesn’t happen to photons. But there
are such things as neutrinos. </span><span style=""></span></div>
<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;"><span style="" lang="EN-US">One must include the properties of emitter and absorber as well - these are essential to the quantisation</span><span style=""></span></div>
<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:10.0pt;"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">I disagree with this. The emitter is an electron, the absorber is an electron. IMHO the electron is 511keV because of the quantum nature of light. Imagine kicking
a football. Kick it fast or kick it slow, the length of your leg is always the same. IMHO it’s the same for photon amplitude, and there’s only one wavelength that will do to wrap up that amplitude into the spin<span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span style="" lang="EN-US">½
spinor that we call an electron.<span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span style=""></span></div>
<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;"><span style="" lang="EN-US">Isolated electrons cannot emit.<span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span style=""></span></div>
<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;"><span style="" lang="EN-US">True, but check out the Inverse Compton.<span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span style=""></span></div>
<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;"><span style="" lang="EN-US">The argument in the paper I have already posted is precisely that electromagnetism remains continuous and un-quantised.<span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span style=""></span></div>
<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;"><span style="" lang="EN-US">But light is quantized, and we make electrons out of it. And they’re always 511keV electrons.<span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span style=""></span></div>
<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;"><span style="" lang="EN-US">electromagnetic energy, propagated over a distance in space, must come in "lumps"</span><span style=""></span></div>
<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;"><span style="" lang="EN-US">An E=hf photon can have any frequency you like, and any energy you like. But it has a wave nature. Space waves. It is a lump. </span><span style=""></span></div>
<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;"><span style="" lang="EN-US">Photons are the bit that do not inter-act.<span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span style=""></span></div>
<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;"><span style="" lang="EN-US">Yes they do. Photons interact with photons in gamma-gamma pair production. And an electron is just a photon forever interacting with itself. Displacing its own path
into a closed path. </span><span style=""></span></div>
<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;"><span style="" lang="EN-US">Coming back to another point you raise – you suggest, Chip, that I should possibly try going to root two of c and then I’ll get my numbers to fit.<span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span style=""></span></div>
<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;"><span style="" lang="EN-US">Imagine you’re in your gedanken canoe and a waves comes at you at the speed of light. You rise up. At what speed?<span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span style=""></span></div>
<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;"><span style="" lang="EN-US">Two reasons: firstly the zitterbewegung fluid in the Dirac model is not fields but some stuff with peculiar properties defined by the new theory: Spinors. These have
the peculiar property that you must rotate through 720 degrees to get back to where you started from.<span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span style=""></span></div>
<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;"><span style="" lang="EN-US">That’s what you have to do to convert a field variation into a standing field. Imagine a seismic wave that displaces you 1m left then 1m right. Represent it as a sine-wave
paper strip, like below. Then turn that into a Mobius strip. You now have an all-round standing displacement of 1m.<span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span style=""></span></div>
<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;"><span style=""><image001.jpg> </span></div>
<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;"><span style="" lang="EN-US">Coming back to a more advanced theory: one has to explain why and how charges arise in a pair-creation process. To do this one has to understand field properly</span><span style=""></span></div>
<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;"><span style="" lang="EN-US">IMHO one has to understand potential and displacement current, and how a field-variation is more fundamental than the electron’s electromagnetic field.<span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span style=""></span></div>
<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;"><span style="" lang="EN-US">Are you charging the electric field part or the magnetic field part, for example.</span><span style=""></span></div>
<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;"><span style="" lang="EN-US">One is the slope of your canoe, the other is the rate of change of slope of your canoe.<span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span style=""></span></div>
<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;"><span style="" lang="EN-US">For me, the charge comes about more from, as Chip and John D are arguing, from a topological re-configuration of the field such that it is everywhere radial in a double
looped configuration. The photon has field. The field is rectified by the twist and the turn. The confinement leads then to a confined object appearing to be (and actually being) charged.</span><span style=""></span></div>
<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;"><span style="" lang="EN-US">Well said that man. Why isn’t this common knowledge? </span><span style=""></span></div>
<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;"><span style="" lang="EN-US">The turn itself – essential to the re-configuration of the field, is engendered in my model not by a charge, but by<span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span style=""></span></div>
<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;"><span style="" lang="EN-US">displacement current. It does what it says on the can.<span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span style=""></span></div>
<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;"><span style="" lang="EN-US">Now, coming back to numbers, let us say that I did want Martin and my old model to get the charge exactly right (for example).<span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span style=""></span></div>
<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;"><span style="" lang="EN-US">Try √(ε</span><span style="font-size:6.0pt;" lang="EN-US">0</span><span style="" lang="EN-US">/4πc³).</span><span style=""></span></div>
<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:10.0pt;"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">Regards</span><span style=""></span></div>
<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:10.0pt;"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">JohnD</span><span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;" lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;" lang="EN-US"> </span></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;" lang="EN-US">General
[<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:general-bounces+johnduffield=btconnect.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:general-bounces+johnduffield=btconnect.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"><span style="color:purple;">mailto:general-bounces+johnduffield=btconnect.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</span></a>]<span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"> </span><b>On
Behalf Of<span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"> </span></b>John Williamson<br clear="none">
<b>Sent:</b><span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"> </span>30 May 2015 16:31<br clear="none">
<b>To:</b><span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"> </span>Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion<br clear="none">
<b>Cc:</b><span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"> </span>Manohar .; Nick Bailey; Anthony Booth; Ariane Mandray; Kyran Williamson<br clear="none">
<b>Subject:</b><span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [General] Photon</span><span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;"><span style="" lang="EN-US">Good morning everyone,<br clear="none">
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Firstly - yes indeed I do not think I have it precisely right in the paper I have circulated yet. I am not in the habit of being completely right first-time every time! I'm actually quite pleased about that - otherwise where would be the fun? I have certainly
not explained myself well enough yet. Martin has, already, done a better job than me, on the nature of the photon, in his comment yesterday.<span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span style=""></span></div>
<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;"><span style="" lang="EN-US">Secondly, though, I do not agree with Chip that it ok to put photons on top of one another, or with Richard that the solution is to think about charged photons.<br clear="none">
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The problem is description - and language is such an imprecise tool - words carry far too much weight yet you need to use them. More, if one is going to properly describe nature in a theory – you need the actual theory – not just vague notions that address
a single problem. For me the phrase “charged photon”, for example, is an oxymoron. The photon is for me, by its nature an uncharged and rest-massless thing. If it has charge it has rest-mass. If it has rest-mass it is not a photon. This is my problem though:
I do not own the word “photon”.<br clear="none">
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Having a word for "photon" means that one is tempted to think that it is a thing. I say it and mean something – most of you hear something else (except Martin – he and I are pretty close on this and I agree with his description). For most, the concept separates
it from the complete process of charge-charge exchange of a quantum of energy - which is actually what is going on, and what is actually observed. So, when I say the photon is self-quantised I am not talking about a little self-contained quantized EM bullet
being emitted independent of its emitter or absorber. One must include the properties of emitter and absorber as well - these are essential to the quantisation and it is from these that one calculates the (mere) value of the charge and Plank's constant. It
is, as I argue, the properties of the emission-absorption process which give the quantisation. It is the initial configuration of the fields, engendered in the emitter that must modulate the carrier to a pure zero-rest mass configuration in order to propagate.
The initial fields in the emitter must fulfil strict criteria – corresponding exactly to those observed physically. They may only transform with the same factor as does the frequency (this is just normal relativity – not an extra condition). Fields transform,
however, only perpendicular to the boost, whereas the 4-vector transforms only parallel to it. Again, just the standard relativity of fields and vectors. If the fields are right, then they can be transported by a hypercomplex exponential which normally contains
rest-mass components and cannot itself propagate. It remains at rest at the site of the emitter (though it may recoil a bit). I think the reason I am getting the wrong value for the constant of Plank is nothing to do with the velocities I’m using but comes
about because I am assuming at first that the usual emitter is an electron – when in fact it is usually an atom. Isolated electrons cannot emit. I need now to brush up on atomic physics, Next job. Next paper – hopefully.<br clear="none">
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No matter. The argument in the paper I have already posted is precisely that electromagnetism remains continuous and un-quantised. The point is that - for a long distance exchange of electromagnetic energy ONLY states which have certain properties may propagate.
Chief amongst those properties (for the wave-function proposed) is that constrained by this form, electromagnetic energy, propagated over a distance in space, must come in "lumps". The wave-function proposed supports ONLY a change in frequency. That is the
wave-function I propose works if, and only if, the energy transferred is proportional to the frequency. This is what is new about it. It only "works" if the light comes in lumps. It only propagates strongly constrained fields. This is not to say that electromagnetism
itself is quantised - it is not. It remains free to chirp and stretch and polarise freely as Martin explains. It describes only non-interacting waves NIW, as Chandra argues. Most of the physics is still just classical electromagnetism. Chandra is mostly right
(in my view). Read his papers! The inter-action is not between photons, it is between charges. Photons are the bit that do not inter-act. This is what NIW means.</span><span style=""></span></div>
<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;"><span style="" lang="EN-US">The new theory allows (actually it requires) the description of continuous waves, locally. They just do not propagate over long distances (even a few wavelengths!)
because that is excluded at the level of the first turn (the first differential). It is the whole process that exhibits the quantisation – just as Martin says. It is just that if light wants to go anywhere it, necessarily, starts looking a lot like a photon.
Richard is right to separate out the different levels of quantisation as well. It is not one thing, but the separation of the continuous into integer units of various dimension. There is not one “quantisation” in nature, but many. The new theory pertains only
the process usually called photon exchange. The quantisation I am talking about here is the quantisation of EM into "photons".<br clear="none">
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Now, coming onto that process and that argument, you say, Chip, that it should be perfectly possible to put two photons precisely on top of one another so that they add linearly. 1+1=2. Yes – but no. Such an object is and has to be an object with a different
frequency. That is the point. This comes to the heart of the matter and the heart of the reason I argue the whole process should come in lumps defined by the frequency alone. If it were so that one could put two photons on top of one another, one would observe
the two "photons" to be emitted at precisely the same time in the same emission event, and absorbed at precisely the same time and place in the absorption event. That is one would propagate two red (say) photons and get a blue's worth of energy in the exchange
event now involving two photons. Now you may want this to be so, it may feel like a nice friendly thing photons (which are after all bosons) should be able to do. Only problem is that such a notion is in contradiction with what is observed experimentally.
One could put a diffraction grating between source and detector, for example, such that the photons appeared in different places according to their frequency. Place the detector at the "red" position. No signal. No di-photon events with the characteristics
of red photons. Where are they? Try going to the blue position. There they are! Appearing as one lump of energy one at a time. They do have the doubled energy one would expect from 1+1= 2 – but they do not – experimentally- have the same wavelength, or frequency.
You get only blue ones. This is what you observe and what has been observed all along in experiment since the photo-electric effect. In your thinking you must be rigorous enough to bear this in mind. What is observed in experiment is what your theory must
parallel. Otherwise it is just fantasy (fantasy is good!). To be proper physics, though, it must not just describe what does happen. It must also say why what is observed NOT to happen does not happen. Too many of the current batch of theories do describe
a wee bit of nature, but also predict vast slews of phenomena that just don’t happen. Not good! This may have become fashionable in the last half-century or so. It is certainly convenient for some theories as it means they cannot easily be toppled by pesky
experiment which would otherwise wipe most of them out. People have become used to theory predicting lots of things that do not happen. This is not good enough for proper progress. These theories cannot be used for engineering applications. One would predict
lots of things to work that would not. We need precision and rigour. This is why I appreciate criticism so much. Thanks Chip! It helps us all get to the point.</span><span style=""></span></div>
<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;"><span style="" lang="EN-US">The ultimate "reason" for the quantisation of the compete solution I have made up in the paper is exactly the two conditions that energies should add AND that fields
should add LINEARLY. This is what the new wave-functions do.</span><span style=""></span></div>
<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;"><span style="" lang="EN-US">It feels that one should have freedom of thought (and one does!), but for thinking to parallel the physical world it must be constrained, not by one thinks about nature,
but by what one observes it to do. It must fit experiment. All of it. In other words to parallel nature it must fit the whole of your physical understanding - all at once. This is very strongly constrained thinking. Worse- not all of us know all of experiment
all at once (especially me!).</span><span style=""></span></div>
<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;"><span style="" lang="EN-US">Coming back to another point you raise – you suggest, Chip, that I should possibly try going to root two of c and then I’ll get my numbers to fit. Now, if I just
wanted to get the numbers to fit this might be an option. I cannot allow myself to do this though. Why? Because light travels at c. Experimentally. This is not a floppy condition. It is not a parameter you can just vary with no consequence elsewhere. It is
fun to think about it – but in doing so one moves away from the whole constraint of the whole of physics I talked about above. One goes out in a soft, friendly, mushy area of thinking where all things are possible. One goes out in the world of untamed imagination.
Great! There is plenty of room for that. I love fiction! Physics is now so complicated, however, that such thinking will rapidly move away from that which is observed in very many areas. One is in a world without proper signposts or fixed points. This is a
very similar world to the world of string, or the world of QCD where nothing is well-defined. One is already lost.<span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span style=""></span></div>
<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;"><span style="" lang="EN-US">Coming back to Richard’s point of the charged photon. Again one is going into the mushy – into the mist. Give the photon an intrinsic charge. Why not? The answer is,
not only that charge is a divergence inconsistent with light-speed motion as I argued earlier, (not a problem if one has a floppy light velocity though – such photons would be, necessarily, not composed of field and be sub-light speed), but that it is a mushy
continuous charge thing. One should observe all sorts of charges. One does not. One sees charges only associated with “particles”. A charged photon should not close, but should repel itself. One causes far more problems with the conjecture than one solves.
The theory must not only explain what is observed, but also why other things are NOT observed.<span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span style=""></span></div>
<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;"><span style="" lang="EN-US">That comes to the other problem. There is no charged photon theory. No differential equations describing its motion. It ends up just being a notion. A notion, effectively,
of charged fields. Why not just make it a scalar charge? That is already complex enough. The theory for this was explored, for example, by Dirac himself in the fifties. It did not lead anywhere (yet, at least).</span><span style=""></span></div>
<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;"><span style="" lang="EN-US">Now coming back to Dirac and his (much earlier) linear relativistic theory. Dirac, in his relativistic quantum mechanics, does indeed integrate his linear equation
and derives a motion consisting of a quickly oscillating lightspeed part, the zitterbewegung and an overall motion characterised by the normal energy as a half m v squared part. Very beautiful. He does not get them separately – they are the first two terms
in an expansion. Incidentally this also gets the de-Broglie wavelength right, with a doubled Compton frequency nota bene. The factor of two comes out. It is not put in a-priori. This is what happens in a proper relativistic linear theory. So what is the problem,
why do we not just pack up go home and go fishing? Job done. Two reasons: firstly the zitterbewegung fluid in the Dirac model is not fields but some stuff with peculiar properties defined by the new theory: Spinors. These have the peculiar property that you
must rotate through 720 degrees to get back to where you started from. This is good in itself – and goes a long way to describing the fundamental difference between fermions and bosons. It is certainly a big element of the truth. Understanding these objects
properly, however, has proved beyond the wit of generations of physicists (if they are honest) – including Dirac himself and Feymann- both of whom were bright and brave enough to simply say so. Dirac does so, for example, in his own book, directly after deriving
the base solutions. Good man. Others waffle – or put the problem into simple two-valued groups such as SU(2). Stick it into simple maths and forget about it. Make it an inviolable starting point of further theory. Bit wimpy – but safe<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" name="_GoBack" href=""></a>!
Moving spinors – even slowly moving spinors start mixing with each other. They are not a relativistically invariant basis. Big problem!<span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span style=""></span></div>
<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;"><span style="" lang="EN-US">I think the base problem with the Dirac model is that it is still too simple – and I think that the point where Dirac goes wrong is when he makes two different identifications
with the same thing. This messes everything up and leads to, not only solutions, but also basic dynamical terms “being difficult to interpret because they are complex” - as Dirac says. Where this comes from is that he has used, unwittingly, the same square
root of minus one for two conceptually different things. Complex indeed, but not complex enough. And mixed up at that.</span><span style=""></span></div>
<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;"><span style="" lang="EN-US">Coming back to a more advanced theory: one has to explain why and how charges arise in a pair-creation process. To do this one has to understand field properly (at
least as the six components of an antisymettric tensor – but tensor algebra does not go far enough (yet) either). One needs to get going with a proper field theory – not just with a loosely based model. If you are going to charge a photon this cannot be ad-hoc.
Are you charging the electric field part or the magnetic field part, for example. Are you adding a 4-vector (charge is the first component of the 4-current) to the six-vector? Just what is it, exactly, that you are proposing? How do you propose to modify the
undelying theory to accommodate your conjecture?</span><span style=""></span></div>
<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;"><span style="" lang="EN-US">For me, the charge comes about more from, as Chip and John D are arguing, from a topological re-configuration of the field such that it is everywhere radial in a double
looped configuration. The photon has field. The field is rectified by the twist and the turn. The confinement leads then to a confined object appearing to be (and actually being) charged.</span><span style=""></span></div>
<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;"><span style="" lang="EN-US">The turn itself – essential to the re-configuration of the field, is engendered in my model not by a charge, but by a dynamical scalar rest-mass term in conjunction
with the electric component of the field. This is a seventh component in addition to the six components of the EM field. You may also see it as an element of energy. I agree with you partially here, that this is fundamental stuff – but so is field and field
is different. It is not a scalar.<span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span style=""></span></div>
<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;"><span style="" lang="EN-US">The resulting composite object is fermionic in that it a double-turn –a fundamental fermion. It is charged in that it can inter-act and exchange energy. In isolation,
it exhibits a radial electric field – as does a charge. Why would you need to complicate things by wanting the poor photon to be charged as well? You do not need it! How are you ever going to calculate the charge from first principles when you put a random
amount of it in to begin with? You are going to get the charge of the photon, plus or minus the charge engendered by the topology and the confinement. Why? I think at this point one is doubly lost. One has had to give up the idea that EM propagates at lightspeed
and one has also arbitrarily assigned a charge to an imagined “charged photon” – an object which is not observed in the real world. Further, one has lost the possibility of a theory to work with as there is no theory of the charged photon with equations like
the Maxwell equations, or the Schroedinger equation, or the Dirac equation. One is then triply lost.</span><span style=""></span></div>
<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;"><span style="" lang="EN-US">Now, coming back to numbers, let us say that I did want Martin and my old model to get the charge exactly right (for example). There is a simple way to do this without
too much fuss and without varying the lightspeed or introducing a charge to the photon. Just allow the ratio of the minor to the major axes of the torus to vary. If zero – one gets the charge slightly less than q. A bit more – hey presto- just right. More
still … one can wind it up to about 20 times the charge observed. Why is this not a result? Why does this not fix the ratio of minor to major. Well – for example could vary all sorts of other things – why not flatten it slightly? Why not put it in a cubical
box (this value is then damn close –less than a percent!). Why not stick a hole in it – like a spindle? Why not make it pear-shaped (this is not as daft as it sounds and may end up being the answer!).</span><span style=""></span></div>
<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;"><span style="" lang="EN-US">Yes – you can do anything in your mind. The problem is that process is futile unless one has a proper theory, or some experiment which can distinguish these things.
Now, clearly, I’m hoping that the new theory I propose may, ultimately, provide the answer. My second choice would be that the extension of the Bateman method, which Martin is pursuing, does the trick. Maybe these will converge or merge with some other thinking
in the group (even better!). Perhaps we will find some seminal experiment which fixes some aspect of it. Perhaps the experiment has already been done and one or other of you know about it.</span><span style=""></span></div>
<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;"><span style="" lang="EN-US">There is a lot of work between where I am now and there though, and perhaps not enough life and energy left in me to pursue it as much as I would like, (squished as
I am by a pile of exams – though the marking is now nearly finished). The work to come requires developing a canon of work similar to that produced by dozens of the greats in non-relativistic quantum mechanics in the 1930’s – except the base equations are
much more complicated than the simple Schroedinger equation. We have equations, but we need to find solutions to the equations. Plenty of work to do! I’m hoping to convince a few folk with enough talent and energy to start getting stuck in to this programme.
The process can, and probably will, throw up problems with the original conception and formulation. I agree here with Chip! No problem! If it is wrong – modify it or throw it out and make up a new one. That is the proper application of the scientific method.</span><span style=""></span></div>
<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;"><span style="" lang="EN-US">Anyway this has turned into too much of an opus. Though it was started in the morning it is now afternoon and time for me to go and get on with some proper work. Marking
awaits!</span><span style=""></span></div>
<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;"><span style="" lang="EN-US">Bye for now,</span><span style=""></span></div>
<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;"><span style="" lang="EN-US">John W.</span><span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;">From:</span></b><span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;"> </span></span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;">General [<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:general-bounces+john.williamson=glasgow.ac.uk@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:general-bounces+john.williamson=glasgow.ac.uk@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"><span style="color:purple;">general-bounces+john.williamson=glasgow.ac.uk@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</span></a>]
on behalf of Richard Gauthier [<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:richgauthier@gmail.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:richgauthier@gmail.com"><span style="color:purple;">richgauthier@gmail.com</span></a>]<br clear="none">
<b>Sent:</b><span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"> </span>Saturday, May 30, 2015 2:59 PM<br clear="none">
<b>To:</b><span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"> </span>Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion<br clear="none">
<b>Subject:</b><span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [General] Photon</span><span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;">John and Martin,</span><span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;"> Thanks for your encouragement. The electron is a photon going round and round in the case of a resting electron, otherwise it is a photon going round and round and forward in some kind of
helical motion, in which case it is not a standing field in this reference frame. Whether or not the charge of a charged photon moves at the speed of light depends on the particular model of the photon that one has. The relativistic charged-photon/electron
model does not require a particular photon model.The charge that is detected, like the electron mass that is detected, may be moving at sub-light speed. Mass is not more fundamental than energy, and is proposed to be composed of light-speed energy in the case
of the electron.</span><span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;"> Richard</span><span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;">On May 30, 2015, at 5:03 AM, John Duffield <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:johnduffield@btconnect.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:johnduffield@btconnect.com"><span style="color:purple;">johnduffield@btconnect.com</span></a>>
wrote:</span><span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal">Can anyone clearly explain why a charged photon of spin 1/2 hbar and rest mass 0.511MeV/c^2 is not the missing link between the uncharged photon and the electron?<span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">Yes, I can. The electron is a 511keV photon going round and round. It’s a charged particle<span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"> </span><i>because</i><span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"> </span>it’s
a photon going round and round. The photon moving linearly is a field variation, but when it’s going round and round, it’s a standing field. That’s why it has mass too. It’s like<span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"> </span><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="http://www.researchgate.net/publication/273419950_Light_is_Heavy"><span style="color:purple;">the
photon In a box</span></a><span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"> </span>. Only it’s a box of its own making. Light displaces its own path into a closed path, because light is displacement current. And it does what it says on the can. Because space
waves. </span><span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">Regards</span><span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">John D</span><span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">PS: Counter-rotating vortices repel,<span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"> </span><u>co</u>-rotating vortices attract, see<span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"> </span><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="http://www.scribd.com/doc/68152826/On-Vortex-Particles-Fiasco-Press-Journal-of-Swarm-Scholarship#scribd"><span style="color:purple;">On
Vortex Particles</span></a><span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"> </span>by David St John. They ain’t called spinors for nothing!<span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;" lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;" lang="EN-US"> </span></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;" lang="EN-US">General
[<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:general-bounces+johnduffield=btconnect.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:general-bounces+johnduffield=btconnect.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"><span style="color:purple;">mailto:general-bounces+johnduffield=btconnect.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</span></a>]<span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"> </span><b>On
Behalf Of<span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Mark, Martin van der<br clear="none">
<b>Sent:</b><span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"> </span>29 May 2015 23:47<br clear="none">
<b>To:</b><span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"> </span>Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion<br clear="none">
<b>Subject:</b><span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [General] Photon</span><span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal">Richard, yes, thank you.<span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal">That is indeed a very good remark, you are probably very right.<br clear="none">
Let me think about it a bit more,<span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal">Best,<span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal">Martin<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
Verstuurd vanaf mijn iPhone<span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;"><span lang="EN-US"><br clear="none">
Op 29 mei 2015 om 21:45 heeft Richard Gauthier <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:richgauthier@gmail.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:richgauthier@gmail.com"><span style="color:purple;">richgauthier@gmail.com</span></a>> het volgende geschreven:</span><span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal">Chip, John and Martin,<span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"> </span><span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal"> I think you gentlemen are onto something. A photon has three related levels of quantization (E=hf, p=h/lambda and spin = hbar) — perhaps only the third is truly quantized in the sense of having a discrete value. An electron
has two more levels of discrete quantization (charge and rest mass) which may be closely related to its spin 1/2 hbar. The electron’s charge may be closely related to its spin hbar/2 in the case of the electron, but not the case of the neutrino). An electron
gains further levels of discrete quantization (its energy eigenvalues) by being bound in an atom. The more discrete quantum levels a quantum has, the more it is “bound” to a material condition. Can anyone clearly explain why a charged photon of spin 1/2 hbar
and rest mass 0.511MeV/c^2 is not the missing link between the uncharged photon and the electron?<span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal"> Richard<span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal">On May 29, 2015, at 12:07 PM, Chip Akins <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:chipakins@gmail.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:chipakins@gmail.com"><span style="color:purple;">chipakins@gmail.com</span></a>> wrote:<span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal">Hi Martin<span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal">With your experience and depth of understanding regarding photons, and the evidence, I am of course inclined to agree with you regarding the nature of photons.<span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal">Regarding: “<span style="font-size:11.0pt;">How and why that works the same for radio waves and gamma rays, is a mystery. Well this bit is my personal opinion, of course.</span>”<span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"> </span><span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal">There is perhaps a difference between the interactions we observe when using longer wavelength radio waves as compared to the particle-sized gamma rays. The radio waves are a source of field influence which can cause electron
drift, just as a DC field can move electrons, but at the scale of the electron, or even the electron’s “orbit” in an atom, the frequency of the radio wave is far less “important” than the frequency of a gamma ray would be. The resonances of the particle would
be less likely to be significantly influenced by the radio wave, but the radio wave would still exert a force on the electron. Radio waves are generally detected by measuring the movement of electrons in conductive materials where the electrons in the materials
are fairly easy to move. It seems likely that it takes at least the motion of one electron in the transmitting antenna to induce any motion of an electron in a receiving antenna, assuming the same configuration of transmitter and receiver antennae. But the
incident field on the receiving antenna may not be an integral value of “photon energy”.<span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"> </span><span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal">Is this why you refer to a “continuum wave”? Because the absorber only uses what is can use of the available energy? So that a photon may actually contain more energy than is absorbed in an interaction?<span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">From:</span></b><span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;"> </span></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">General [<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"><span style="color:purple;">mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</span></a>]<span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"> </span><b>On
Behalf Of<span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Mark, Martin van der<br clear="none">
<b>Sent:</b><span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"> </span>Friday, May 29, 2015 12:42 PM<br clear="none">
<b>To:</b><span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"> </span>Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion<br clear="none">
<b>Subject:</b><span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [General] Photon</span><span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">Dear Chip,<br clear="none">
now you are really getting there for sure, those questions and statements are at the right level to begin with. But your kind of understanding certainly converges with my ideas.</span><span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">That me be good or bad, but I would judge it as good. ;-)</span><span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">See for extra comments below…</span><span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">Cheers, Martin</span><span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;" lang="DE">Dr. Martin B. van der Mark</span><span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;">Principal Scientist, Minimally Invasive Healthcare</span><span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;">Prof. Holstlaan 4</span><span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;">5656 AE Eindhoven, The Netherlands</span><span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;">Tel: +31 40 2747548</span><span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;">From:</span></b><span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;"> </span></span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;">General [</span><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:general-bounces+martin.van.der.mark=philips.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:general-bounces+martin.van.der.mark=philips.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;">mailto:general-bounces+martin.van.der.mark=philips.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</span></a><span style="font-size:10.0pt;">]<span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"> </span><b>On
Behalf Of<span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Chip Akins<br clear="none">
<b>Sent:</b><span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"> </span>vrijdag 29 mei 2015 15:45<br clear="none">
<b>To:</b><span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"> </span>'Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion'<br clear="none">
<b>Subject:</b><span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [General] Photon</span><span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal">H John W<span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal">Thank you. One reason for asking the question and pursuing the thought process, was to try to further illustrate the lack of any explanation so far which supports the strict self-quantization of photons. This has been leading
me to think that the source for quantization is the spin ½ configuration of fermions. (Which would act as quantizers both while emitting and absorbing). If this is true then it means that, for a photon, E=hv only holds true because of the emitter and absorber.<span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"> </span><span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">MvdM: This may be exactly right.</span><span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal">Regarding the uncertainty principle:<span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal">If we take a single point snapshot of a sinusoidal function we are very uncertain about its frequency, the more time we spend sampling the wave the more certain we become of its frequency. Now if we are using sinusoidal waves
to create particles, many of the properties of the particles will be uncertain with our measurements, because the measurements we can take disturb the system, and are only valid for brief times or spaces before the information is no longer valid, due to measurement.
Because when we set up a measurement, we create conditions where discrete waves and fields will interact, creating an energy exchange which occurs in a very finite timeframe, disturbing completely what we are measuring. This correlation to the uncertainty
principle is one of the reasons that I feel fields and waves are the best candidate for the fundamental makeup of particles. Fields and waves in these configurations naturally create an uncertainty in measurement which correlates exactly with the observed,
understood, and measured uncertainties. The hydrogen atom is such a nice tool for modeling and understanding these issues.<span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">MvdM: yes and this kind of uncertainty is given by what is called the Fourier limit amended with hbar</span><span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal">Of course the use of the word orbit to describe the electron’s state in an atom is too ambiguous to actually describe its state. The electron exists in a space surrounding the nucleus, and spins about it, but it’s more like
the electron surrounds the nucleus and less like an orbit.<span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">MvdM: true, and this is why detailed orbital calculations in a photon model for the electron are totally futile; only a real theory will tell.</span><span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal">So what I am getting to is that the different “spin modes” of the photon and the electron are significant. I think the photon has what we may call a symmetric field spin mode, where it spins about the point between the positive
and negative field lines, making it charge neutral. But the electron’s principal spin is a non-symmetrical field spin mode, with the point between the positive and negative fields displaced from the spin axis, giving it charge. Apparently this has other important
effects as well. It seems this spin mode allows the electron to be quantized based on energy density, unlike the photon.<span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal">The underlying reason I am asking these questions is related to the formulation for field equations. There seems to be a difference between the behavior of the fields in the photon and the quantization behavior of the fields
in fermions. The spin configuration seems to be the cause for the forces which create quantization.<span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">MvdM: Yes and the reason is that the electron needs binding forces and nonlinearity, the “free” photon doesn’t</span><span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal">But back to the photon: Since the photon cannot be quantized by its internal energy density, does it spin due to the spin angular momentum imparted by the emitter? Is the photon actually not internally quantized at all?
That is to say, is there no inherent mechanism within the photon itself which imposed a specific quantization? Is the relationship E=hv imposed only at the emission or absorption? And therefore can we create photons without spin? Or can we create photons where
E=hv is not true? And are photons really particles at all, or are they just waves, which seem like particles because of their interaction with the quantization of emitters and absorbers.<span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">MvdM: Good questions, I go for waves. The photon is merely a quantum of energy that is taken up by the absorber from a continuum wave. It is not a particle by it self, and doen’t need to have
the machinery on-board to keep itself together or be quantized or what. It is just a Maxwell wave. But this Maxwell wave can only be emitted and absorbed according to the rules of (boundary conditions imposed by) emitter and absorber. How and why that works
the same for radio waves and gamma rays, is a mystery. Well this bit is my personal opinion, of course.</span><span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal">While we could view many of the question as rhetorical it seems that we may need to understand and answer them as literal. Chandra, Martin, All?<span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">From:</span></b><span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;"> </span></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">General [</span><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</span></a><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">]<span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"> </span><b>On
Behalf Of<span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"> </span></b>John Williamson<br clear="none">
<b>Sent:</b><span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"> </span>Thursday, May 28, 2015 4:29 PM<br clear="none">
<b>To:</b><span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"> </span>Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion<br clear="none">
<b>Subject:</b><span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [General] Photon</span><span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;" lang="EN-US">Hi Chip and everyone,<br clear="none">
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Good thought but no- quantisation cannot be dependent on energy density. This is what experiment tells you - and is the beauty of experiment. Experimentally photons can have any wave-train length. The photon energy, however, is related to its frequency alone.
Photons from a source have a well-defined energy only if they are pretty long (this is a consequence of the uncertainty principle). There are lots of people in the group (Martin and Chandra for two) - who know lots more about this than I do and some who perform
experiments interfering, stretching and bending light.<br clear="none">
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Any proper theory needs to describe experiment - all of it - not just the bits we may happen to know about!<br clear="none">
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Regards, John</span><span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;" lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;" lang="EN-US"> </span></span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;" lang="EN-US">General
[<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:general-bounces+john.williamson=glasgow.ac.uk@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:general-bounces+john.williamson=glasgow.ac.uk@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"><span style="color:purple;">general-bounces+john.williamson=glasgow.ac.uk@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</span></a>]
on behalf of Chip Akins [<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:chipakins@gmail.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:chipakins@gmail.com"><span style="color:purple;">chipakins@gmail.com</span></a>]<br clear="none">
<b>Sent:</b><span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"> </span>Monday, May 25, 2015 4:51 PM<br clear="none">
<b>To:</b><span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"> </span>'Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion'<br clear="none">
<b>Subject:</b><span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [General] Photon</span><span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal">While looking at quantization which may be caused by a twist term included with Maxwell’s equations, at least one puzzle remains unanswered for me. The nature of photons is still a bit difficult to understand. It is much
easier to envision a photon of a single wavelength than a photon which is many wavelengths. If energy density is the cause for quantization (spin and frequency) it is more difficult to see how that can be so, if a photon may have an arbitrary number of cycles,
but have its energy density spread out over all cycles. What do you think the likelihood is that not only frequency but also the number of cycles in a photon is quantized? If this is the case then we could still understand how the correct spin would result
from energy density for each cycle. But then we would have to also address the energy density to twist relationship for single wavelength structures like the electron models we have been creating.???<span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal">It seems evident that quantization for frequency is dependent upon energy, and I assumed it was therefore due to energy density. Which works nicely for single wavelength photons. Experiment seems to indicate that we can create
photons, using various methods, which have an arbitrary number of wavelengths. How can we physically correlate this to photon frequency quantization, when the energy density of the photon has been spread out over many cycles? Is there some apparently “non-local”
mechanism which couples the energy of all cycles in a single photon, and therefore helps to retain the E=hv relationship?<span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">From:</span></b><span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;"> </span></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">General [</span><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</span></a><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">]<span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"> </span><b>On
Behalf Of<span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"> </span></b>John Williamson<br clear="none">
<b>Sent:</b><span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"> </span>Sunday, May 24, 2015 10:46 PM<br clear="none">
<b>To:</b><span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"> </span>Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion<br clear="none">
<b>Subject:</b><span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [General] Electron Torus</span><span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;">Hello,<br clear="none">
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Briefly - yes pi mesons are real particles. They leave nice long traces in cloud or bubble chambers. The rho is equally real.<br clear="none">
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Gluons have never been observed directly. The W and Z are sufficiently short-lived that they are observed as so-called resonances.<br clear="none">
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Regards, John.</span><span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;" lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;" lang="EN-US"> </span></span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;" lang="EN-US">General
[<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:general-bounces+john.williamson=glasgow.ac.uk@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:general-bounces+john.williamson=glasgow.ac.uk@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"><span style="color:purple;">general-bounces+john.williamson=glasgow.ac.uk@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</span></a>]
on behalf of Richard Gauthier [<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:richgauthier@gmail.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:richgauthier@gmail.com"><span style="color:purple;">richgauthier@gmail.com</span></a>]<br clear="none">
<b>Sent:</b><span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"> </span>Sunday, May 24, 2015 11:21 PM<br clear="none">
<b>To:</b><span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"> </span>Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion<br clear="none">
<b>Subject:</b><span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [General] Electron Torus</span><span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal">John D,<span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"> </span><span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal"> And according to <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_particle"><span style="color:purple;">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_particle</span></a> , the pi meson and
rho meson are virtual particles for proton-neutron attraction in nuclei, as are the W and Z bosons for the weak nuclear force. Are gluons, pi mesons and W and Z particles ever real?<span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal">On May 24, 2015, at 8:58 AM, John Duffield <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:johnduffield@btconnect.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:johnduffield@btconnect.com"><span style="color:purple;">johnduffield@btconnect.com</span></a>> wrote:<span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal"><span style="">Richard:</span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal"><span style="">See the<span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"> </span></span><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gluon#Confinement"><span style="">Wikipedia gluon article</span></a><span style="">,
note the bit that says<span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"> </span></span><i><span lang="EN">as opposed to virtual ones found in ordinary hadrons.<span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"> </span></span></i><span style="" lang="EN">The gluons
in a proton are virtual. As in not real. And LOL, perhaps the same is true of the quarks!<span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal"><span style="" lang="EN">Regards</span><span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal"><span style="" lang="EN">John D<span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">From:</span></b><span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;"> </span></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">General [</span><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:general-bounces+johnduffield=btconnect.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:general-bounces+johnduffield=btconnect.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">mailto:general-bounces+johnduffield=btconnect.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</span></a><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">]<span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"> </span><b>On
Behalf Of<span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Richard Gauthier<br clear="none">
<b>Sent:</b><span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"> </span>24 May 2015 16:12<br clear="none">
<b>To:</b><span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"> </span>Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion<br clear="none">
<b>Subject:</b><span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [General] Electron Torus</span><span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal"> I suspect that the fundamental quantities of both spacetime and particles/fields are frequency (directly proportional to the energy of a particle and inversely proportional to time) and wavelength (inversely proportional
to the momentum of a particle and directly proportional to space). Spin is related to energy-momentum topology. Electric charge seems related to topology. Particles with rest mass are composed of charged photons and related speed-of-light particles like
charged gluons (normal gluons are electrically uncharged but have color charge while quarks have both electrical charge and color charge.) And I suspect that the energy quantum (composing both speed-of-light particles and rest-mass particles) is the unifying
link between spacetime and particles/fields (and therefore quantum mechanics/QED/QCD/quantum gravity) and may be the precursor as well as the sustainer of both.<span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal">On May 24, 2015, at 7:06 AM, Mark, Martin van der <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:martin.van.der.mark@philips.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:martin.van.der.mark@philips.com"><span style="color:purple;">martin.van.der.mark@philips.com</span></a>> wrote:<span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;">I fully agree with your reply to Chip, thanks for the details!</span><span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;">Please join us at the bar;-)</span><span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;">Cheers three!</span><span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;">Martin<br clear="none">
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Verstuurd vanaf mijn iPhone</span><span style=""></span></div>
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Op 24 mei 2015 om 15:56 heeft John Duffield <</span><span lang="EN-US"><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:johnduffield@btconnect.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:johnduffield@btconnect.com"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;">johnduffield@btconnect.com</span></a></span><span style="font-size:9.0pt;" lang="EN-US">>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal">As all of you know, after Relativity was introduced and adopted, the popular belief for a while, was that space was empty, and that a media of space was not required. Now however it seems that most physicists have accepted
that space is a media, with quantum attributes, and some level of energy density. <span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">That popular belief was a cargo-cult false belief, because Einstein made it clear in his 1920 Leyden Address that space was the “aether” of general relativity. He made it clear that space was
not some emptiness, but instead was a thing that is “conditioned” by a massive body such as a star.</span><span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal">If space is a media, what would we perceive which is different from space being empty?<span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">That popular belief was a cargo-cult belief, because Einstein made it clear in his 1920 </span><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="http://einsteinpapers.press.princeton.edu/vol7-trans/192?highlightText=%22neither%20homogeneous%22"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">Leyden
Address</span></a><span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;"> </span></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">that space was the “aether” of general relativity, and space was not empty.</span><span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal">Some would say there is no perceptible difference. But is that precisely true?<span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">No. Like Einstein said in<span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"> </span></span><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="http://www.rain.org/%7Ekarpeles/einsteindis.html"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">1929</span></a><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">,
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal">If space is a media, it implies a preferred reference frame in space. This is an item which would be difficult, or perhaps impossible to detect, but for one item. If space is a media with a preferred reference frame, then
clocks in that reference frame would be the fastest clocks possible in the universe. <span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">There’s also the<span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"> </span></span><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmic_microwave_background#CMBR_dipole_anisotropy"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">CMB
reference frame</span></a><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">. It’s preferred in that it tells you your speed through the universe. And whilst it isn’t an absolute frame in the strict sense, the universe is as absolute as it gets.</span><span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal">One thing which would alter the ability to test this is a gross frame dragging of space around massive bodies or concentrations of mass.<span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">See<span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"> </span></span><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="http://www2.warwick.ac.uk/newsandevents/pressreleases/galaxy_sized_twist/"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">the
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">It’s a popscience myth that it isn’t a medium, electromagnetic waves do not propagate because an electric wave creates a magnetic wave and vice versa. I’m confident that frame dragging does
occur, and that the electron electromagnetic field is a fierce example of it.</span><span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal"><b>A definition of TIME is the underlying objective of this line of questions.</b> For I see two possibilities, one is that time is an inherent property of space and, as the current relativity teaches, a fourth dimension
in our “spacetime”. The other is that time is simply the rate at which particles can interact, caused by the fact that fields can only propagate at a finite velocity, and that we are made of particles which are circularly confined fields.<span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"> </span><span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal">I feel the first explanation is less likely because it does not show cause, it does not tell us why time is part of space, just that it is. The second explanation is the one I currently prefer because it is a simple consequence
of the nature of space and particles, it shows cause.<span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">I prefer it too, and so did Einstein. See<span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"> </span></span><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="http://www.physicsdiscussionforum.org/time-explained-t3.html"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">Time
Explained</span></a><span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;"> </span></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">and<span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"> </span></span><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/World-without-Time-Forgotten-Einstein/dp/0465092942"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">A
World Without Time: the forgotten legacy of Godel and Einstein</span></a><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">.<span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal">Is time truly a fourth dimension at the lowest level of analysis of space?<span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">No. We live in a world of space and motion. Our time dimension is derived from motion. It’s a dimension in the sense of measure, not in the sense of freedom of motion.<span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">From:</span></b><span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;"> </span></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">General [</span><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:general-bounces+johnduffield=btconnect.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:general-bounces+johnduffield=btconnect.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">mailto:general-bounces+johnduffield=btconnect.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</span></a><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">]<span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"> </span><b>On
Behalf Of<span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Chip Akins<br clear="none">
<b>Sent:</b><span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"> </span>24 May 2015 14:24<br clear="none">
<b>To:</b><span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"> </span>'Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion'<br clear="none">
<b>Subject:</b><span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [General] Electron Torus</span><span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal">Hi All<span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal">We are working on the foundations of physics. Studying and trying to decipher the result of experiment in a causal manner.<span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal">As we do that it keeps bringing me back to the nature of space itself. John M has made some good points about starting from the makeup of space and working our way up from there. John D has communicated a solid and basic
approach to many of the issues. Many of us have proposed models, field formulations, and a host of other possible explanations for what we observe.<span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal">As we reflect on what we have done and what we still need to do, there are some things which may still need to be addressed and answered before we can make progress in certain areas.<span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal">For example, the nature of space and time, are fundamental to understanding physics. Some of us feel we have a reasonable handle on this, and it is a very basic part of what we are doing, but I am thinking that we do not
yet have it quite right. For the endeavor we have undertaken, I think close is not good enough.<span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal">First I want to state clearly that I do not yet propose to have the answers to the nature of space, all I have is conjecture so far.<span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal">As all of you know, after Relativity was introduced and adopted, the popular belief for a while, was that space was empty, and that a media of space was not required. Now however it seems that most physicists have accepted
that space is a media, with quantum attributes, and some level of energy density. <span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal">However many of the subtle suggestions engendered during that time when it was perceived that space was empty, and much of the “foundation” of relativity is still based on there being no media which constitutes space.<span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal">If space is a media, what would we perceive which is different from space being empty? Some would say there is no perceptible difference. But is that precisely true?<span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal">If space is a media, it implies a preferred reference frame in space. This is an item which would be difficult, or perhaps impossible to detect, but for one item.<span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal">If space is a media with a preferred reference frame, then clocks in that reference frame would be the fastest clocks possible in the universe. All clocks in all other inertial frames would be slower. One thing which would
alter the ability to test this is a gross frame dragging of space around massive bodies or concentrations of mass.<span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal">It seems that relativity has been tested with regards to the slowing of clocks with relative velocity to a precision of about 1.6% to 10% depending on which experiments you prefer. But of course these tests are at low relative
velocities and only represent a narrow prat of the spectrum of tests which would be required to absolutely validate the entire curve. And an error of 1.6% is still a substantial error for this type of validation.<span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal">If space is a media, and if frame dragging does occur, again it would be difficult to verify the existence of the media using clocks, depending on how much frame dragging there is. If space is a media, how can we calculate
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal"><b>A definition of TIME is the underlying objective of this line of questions.</b> For I see two possibilities, one is that time is an inherent property of space and, as the current relativity teaches, a fourth dimension
in our “spacetime”. The other is that time is simply the rate at which particles can interact, caused by the fact that fields can only propagate at a finite velocity, and that we are made of particles which are circularly confined fields.<span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal">I feel the first explanation is less likely because it does not show cause, it does not tell us why time is part of space, just that it is. The second explanation is the one I currently prefer because it is a simple consequence
of the nature of space and particles, it shows cause.<span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal">One thing I think we must remember as we construct a physical model is that we are dealing with the fundamentals and foundations, the building blocks so to speak, and in that endeavor we will probably find instances where
a phenomenon like the definition of time, or the definition of charge, or the definition of spin, is not the same at the micro level as it is at our macro observable level. If we do our job well we will discover the causes and sources of many of these types
of phenomena. At levels below the causal level for any of these phenomena, the macro rules no longer apply in full.<span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal">After saying that, a question would naturally arise, if time as we measure it is merely the result of the interaction of particles, how and when do we incorporate the dimension of time in our calculations? Is the development
of time at such a low level that we should include it in all calculations, just as relativity teaches? Or does time come into play only at the particle level, and the finite velocity of light predominates at lower levels? Is time truly a fourth dimension at
the lowest level of analysis of space? Or does it just appear to be that way from our perspectives due to the nature of our particulate construction and measurements?<span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal">Any and all opinion and argument is eagerly appreciated. If you could please let me know your take on this and the reasons you feel that way I will be grateful.<span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">From:</span></b><span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;"> </span></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">General [</span><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</span></a><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">]<span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"> </span><b>On
Behalf Of<span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"> </span></b>John Williamson<br clear="none">
<b>Sent:</b><span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"> </span>Friday, May 22, 2015 8:02 AM<br clear="none">
<b>To:</b><span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"> </span>Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion<br clear="none">
<b>Subject:</b><span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [General] Electron Torus</span><span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;" lang="EN-US">Hello Chip,<br clear="none">
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Have been meaning to say for some time: you are producing some beautiful models.<br clear="none">
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Would be good to talk at some stage.<br clear="none">
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Regards. John (W)</span><span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;" lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;" lang="EN-US"> </span></span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;" lang="EN-US">General
[</span><span lang="EN-US"><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:general-bounces+john.williamson=glasgow.ac.uk@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:general-bounces+john.williamson=glasgow.ac.uk@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;">general-bounces+john.williamson=glasgow.ac.uk@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</span></a></span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;" lang="EN-US">]
on behalf of Chip Akins [</span><span lang="EN-US"><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:chipakins@gmail.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:chipakins@gmail.com"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;">chipakins@gmail.com</span></a></span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;" lang="EN-US">]<br clear="none">
<b>Sent:</b><span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"> </span>Friday, May 22, 2015 1:59 PM<br clear="none">
<b>To:</b><span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"> </span>'Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion'<br clear="none">
<b>Subject:</b><span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [General] Electron Torus</span><span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal">This is what I perceive to be your spin ½ photon model of the electron to be with velocity. Same velocity steps as before.<span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;">X(ii)=Roc*(1/y^2+(1/y)*cosd(y*c*(t)/Roc))*cosd(y*c*(t)/Roc);</span><span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;">Y(ii)=Roc*(1/y^2+(1/y)*cosd(y*c*(t)/Roc))*sind(y*c*(t)/Roc);</span><span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal">Note: there is still a very small electron model (with velocity 0.9988c) at the center of this graphic. In this model the contraction is in all directions, not just longitudinally. I think this is correct, but it does not
agree with some interpretations of relativity. It is also difficult to see how this model, without spiral fields, would look the same to a moving observer when the electron is “at rest”. <span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal">And the model is of course not really spherical.<span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal">Does this match your results?<span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal">Can you share the graphics model you have done?<span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">From:</span></b><span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;"> </span></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">General [</span><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</span></a><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">]<span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"> </span><b>On
Behalf Of<span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Richard Gauthier<br clear="none">
<b>Sent:</b><span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"> </span>Friday, May 22, 2015 7:31 AM<br clear="none">
<b>To:</b><span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"> </span>Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion<br clear="none">
<b>Subject:</b><span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [General] Electron Torus</span><span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal"> Isn’t it the case that in standard physics (experimentally confirmed) the measured spin of an electron is relative to the motion of the observer of the electron, just as the observed momentum of an electron is relative
to the motion of the observer of the electron? If an observer moving west to east with a relativistic velocity v1 passes a “stationary” electron (in some reference frame) , the electron has an observed momentum (when it measured) going west, and a spin either
up or down (when it is measured) in the east-west direction and a de Broglie wavelength corresponding to the relative velocity v1, while when an observer moving relativistically south to north with velocity v2 passes a “stationary" electron , the electron
has an observed momentum (when it is measured) going south, a spin that is up or down (when it is measured) in the north-south direction, and a de Broglie wavelength corresponding to its relative velocity v2. (In QM, velocity, spin and de Broglie wavelength
probably can’t all be measured at the same time). <span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal">The relativistic energy-momentum equation for the electron E^2 = p^2 c^2 + m^2 c^4 applies to the electron described above when observed by two observers with two different relativistic velocities compared to the electron.
I showed in my article “the electron is a charged photon with the de Broglie wavelength” that the same relativistic energy-momentum equation applies to a helically moving double-looping photon that may compose an electron, where E is the energy of the photon
(the same as the total energy of the electron composed by the photon), p is the longitudinal momentum of the helically moving photon (the same as the momentum p of the electron being modeled), E/c is the total momentum of the photon along its helical path,
and mc is the transverse momentum of the helically moving photon, which contributes to the electron’s spin up or spin down value hbar/2 in the case of a slow moving electron (modeled by the double-looping photon). So every electron observed to have a momentum
p will in this view also have a spin hbar/2 up or down in the direction of its momentum. <span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal">Also, when a photon is Doppler shifted-due to relative motion of the light source away from or towards the observer, the observed wavelength of the photon is lengthened or shortened accordingly. Doesn’t this imply that the
length of the whole photon (if it consists of a certain number of wavelengths) is also lengthened or shortened accordingly?<span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal">On May 22, 2015, at 12:06 AM, John Duffield <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:johnduffield@btconnect.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:johnduffield@btconnect.com"><span style="color:purple;">johnduffield@btconnect.com</span></a>> wrote:<span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">David:</span><span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">Why don’t photons get length contracted? Because they’re just waves in space moving at the speed of waves in space. A ripple in a rubber mat doesn’t get length contracted, nor do waves in space.
Then when you make those waves go round and round, they still don’t get length-contracted. Then when you move past them fast, they still don’t get length contracted. You might say the path of those waves is different, but it isn’t, they didn’t change, you
did. And if you boil yourself down to a single electron, and boil that down to a ring, then draw circles and helixes, I think it gets to the bottom of things.<span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">Yes, I’m certain relative velocity is a determining factor. But note that “we” are made of electrons and things, so IMHO it’s best to start with two particles, such as the electron and the
positron. If you set them down with no initial relative motion they move linearly together, and we talk of electric force. </span><span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">However if you threw the postiron over the top of the electron they’d move together and go around one another, whereupon we talk of magnetic force. Note that this is relative velocity, not relativistic
velocity. I’ve seen people<span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"> </span></span><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="http://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/65335/how-do-moving-charges-produce-magnetic-fields"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">explain
the magnetic field around the current-in-the-wire using length contraction</span></a><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">, but IMHO that’s a fairy tale, and I prefer a<span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"> </span></span><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="http://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/184055/atomic-explanation-of-magnetic-field/184079?noredirect=1#comment388570_184079"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">“screw”
answer</span></a><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">. </span><span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">Regards</span><span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">From:</span></b><span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;"> </span></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">General [</span><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:general-bounces+johnduffield=btconnect.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:general-bounces+johnduffield=btconnect.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">mailto:general-bounces+johnduffield=btconnect.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</span></a><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">]<span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"> </span><b>On
Behalf Of<span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Chip Akins<br clear="none">
<b>Sent:</b><span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"> </span>21 May 2015 21:39<br clear="none">
<b>To:</b><span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"> </span>'Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion'<br clear="none">
<b>Subject:</b><span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [General] Electron Torus</span><span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">Sorry, I don’t think that can be right because you could go past an electron at .9988c.</span><span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">From:</span></b><span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;"> </span></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">General [</span><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</span></a><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">]<span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"> </span><b>On
Behalf Of<span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"> </span></b>John Duffield<br clear="none">
<b>Sent:</b><span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"> </span>Thursday, May 21, 2015 3:15 PM<br clear="none">
<b>To:</b><span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"> </span>'Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion'<br clear="none">
<b>Subject:</b><span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [General] Electron Torus</span><span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">Sorry, I don’t think that can be right because you could go past an electron at .9988c.</span><span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">Andrew:</span><span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">Photons don’t get length contracted, and electrons are made out of photons in pair production. If you simplify the electron to a photon going round in a circle, then take one point on the circumference,
you would say it describes a circular path. But when you move past the electron fast, you would say that point was describing a helical path. Then when you consider all points of the circumference, you might say the electron was a cylinder rather than a circle.
And if you<span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"> </span><i>were</i><span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"> </span>that electron, everything to you would look length-contracted, because you’re smeared out. If I was a motionless electron
you’d say I was length contracted. But I might say<span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"> </span><i>I<span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"> </span></i>was the one moving, and that<span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"> </span><i>you’re</i><span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"> </span>length-contracted.
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">Regards</span><span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">From:</span></b><span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;"> </span></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">General [</span><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:general-bounces+johnduffield=btconnect.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:general-bounces+johnduffield=btconnect.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">mailto:general-bounces+johnduffield=btconnect.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</span></a><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">]<span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"> </span><b>On
Behalf Of<span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Chip Akins<br clear="none">
<b>Sent:</b><span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"> </span>21 May 2015 17:52<br clear="none">
<b>To:</b><span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"> </span>'Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion'<br clear="none">
<b>Subject:</b><span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [General] Electron Torus</span><span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal">Hi Andrew<span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal">Images from the electron’s reference frame.<span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal">For Richard’s model using the spin 1 photon, and drawing in the electron’s reference frame, his math produces the following image for a set of nested electron models with velocities up to 0.9988c.<span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal">The small grey sphere in the center is the electron model for 0.9988c.<span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"> </span><span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal">So in this model the electron shrinks in all directions, but remains principally spherical when viewed from the electron’s reference frame.<span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">From:</span></b><span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;"> </span></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">General [</span><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</span></a><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">]<span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"> </span><b>On
Behalf Of<span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Andrew Meulenberg<br clear="none">
<b>Sent:</b><span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"> </span>Thursday, May 21, 2015 11:15 AM<br clear="none">
<b>To:</b><span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"> </span>Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion; Andrew Meulenberg<br clear="none">
<b>Subject:</b><span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [General] Electron Torus</span><span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;"><span lang="EN-US">Dear Chip,</span><span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;"><span lang="EN-US">I learn something new every time. However, it may not be true.</span><span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;"><span lang="EN-US">If I interpret your images properly, the fastest electrons are the longest. However, relativistic shortening should shrink the length. I had expected the electron to 'pancake'
in the direction of motion. You show the opposite. Is the pancake only in the electron's frame and the appearance from our frame is one of an extended structure? If both, do they cancel and, in reality, it is still spherical?</span><span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal">On Thu, May 21, 2015 at 7:36 PM, Chip Akins <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:chipakins@gmail.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:chipakins@gmail.com"><span style="color:purple;">chipakins@gmail.com</span></a>> wrote:<span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal">Hi Richard<span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal">So it is a bit more difficult to visualize exactly what is going on from the graphics with velocity.<span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal">We increase the velocity is in steps from<span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"> </span><b>zero through 0.9988c.</b><span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal">From the Z axis the illustration looks like:<span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal">Showing the reduced radius with velocity.<span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal">But when we look at the model slightly off axis (Z axis) we see this:<span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal">So this is a set of nested electron models with different velocities, each starting from the same point (upper right of the illustration). These are drawn from an external observers frame and are not shown in the electron’s
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal">In the electron’s reference frame we would see closure to the trajectory, but in this reference frame, the trajectory (since it is moving) is not closed.<span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">From:</span></b><span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;"> </span></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">General [mailto:</span><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:general-bounces%2Bchipakins" target="_blank" href="mailto:general-bounces%2Bchipakins"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">general-bounces+chipakins</span></a><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">=</span><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</span></a><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">]<span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"> </span><b>On
Behalf Of<span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Richard Gauthier<br clear="none">
<b>Sent:</b><span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"> </span>Thursday, May 21, 2015 6:29 AM</span><span style=""></span></div>
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<b>To:</b><span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"> </span>Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion<br clear="none">
<b>Subject:</b><span class="yiv2445987559apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [General] Electron Torus<span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal"> Please correct a couple of typos in my last email. The TEQ (transluminal energy quantum) moves on the surface of a torus, not a helix. Also the first helical radius mentioned should have been Ro sqrt(2) = 1.414 Ro , not
Ro sqrt(2)/2 = 1.414 Ro since sort(2)/2 = 0.707 not 1.414 . Thanks.<span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal">On May 20, 2015, at 6:42 PM, Richard Gauthier <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:richgauthier@gmail.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:richgauthier@gmail.com"><span style="color:purple;">richgauthier@gmail.com</span></a>> wrote:<span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal"> Nice graphics!<span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal"> Shouldn’t the electric field lines of an electron at some distance from the electron model be pointing inward linearly towards the electron from infinity on all sides, since the electron's electric field (due to its electric
charge) falls off as 1/r^2 . I don’t understand why the electric field lines appear closed in your diagrams.<span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal"> In my original resting electron model the TEQ was a circulating negative electric charge which circulated on the surface of a helix. I called the circulating TEQ a photon-like object since it was similar to my TEQ model
of a photon. I was assuming at that time that the photon in my resting electron model had spin 1, even though I had adjusted the helical radius so that the circulating TEQ generated the magnetic moment of the electron of 1 Bohr magneton, requiring a helical
radius for the TEQ of Ro sqrt(2)/2 = 1.414 Ro which created the spindle torus in my model . So this was actually neither a spin 1 photon (whose radius for a resting electron would have been 2Ro, or a spin 1/2 photon, whose radius for a resting electron would
be Ro, as in the 3D models that you and I generated from the moving electron equations I proposed. Since I currently prefer the model of an electron composed of a spin 1/2 circulating photon, this doesn’t generate the electron’s magnetic moment of 1 Bohr magneton.
But it generates a magnetic moment more than 1/2 Bohr magneton which would be produced by a charge circulating at light speed in a simple double loop of radius Ro. I haven’t done the calculation for the magnetic moment generated by my spin 1/2 photon model
of the electron, but I suspect that it would be 0.707 Bohr magneton (just a guess at this point). The calculation of this magnetic moment from the TEQ trajectory equations for a charged TEQ in the spin 1/2 photon model is relatively straightforward though.<span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal"> By the way, have you looked at the side view of the actual TEQ trajectory at various values of v/c of the electron in the spin 1/2 photon moving-electron model that I proposed (and that you programmed and graphed in 3D
to show how the model size changes as 1/gamma at various values of v/c)? The side view of the TEQ trajectory for a moving electron contains some surprises, at least for me. I thought that at high values of v/c (say 0.99 or 0.999) the TEQ would just appear
from the side view to rotate helically around its reducing and increasingly more linear helical trajectory (whose trajectory reduces as 1/(gamma^2), with the TEQ’s helical radius reducing as 1/gamma. But that’s apparently not what happens. Could you check
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal"> Richard<span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal">On May 19, 2015, at 8:45 AM, Chip Akins <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:chipakins@gmail.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:chipakins@gmail.com"><span style="color:purple;">chipakins@gmail.com</span></a>> wrote:<span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal">Hi Richard<span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal">If your spin 1 photon model of the electron is similar to John W and Martin’s model in that the field lines always orient with the negative end outwards (providing for charge) the estimated field distribution is similar to
this illustration. (Equatorial View)<span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal">Red lines represent negative ends of field lines, Blue lines represent positive, black is the transport radius, faint green line is one circulation at the transport radius.<span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal">Photon field amplitude is shown as a cosine function of wavelength/2.<span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;"> General [</span><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</span></a><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">] <b>On
Behalf Of </b>Richard Gauthier<br clear="none">
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, May 05, 2015 10:06 AM<br clear="none">
<b>To:</b> Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion<br clear="none">
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [General] Electron Torus</span><span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal">Chip,<span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal"> Perfect! It would also be good to have the pair of tori seen an an angle from above their ‘equator’ to get a more 3-D quality.<span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal">On May 5, 2015, at 6:07 AM, Chip Akins <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:chipakins@gmail.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:chipakins@gmail.com"><span style="color:purple;">chipakins@gmail.com</span></a>> wrote:<span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal">Hi Richard<span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal">How do these look?<span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;"> General [</span><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</span></a><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">] <b>On
Behalf Of </b>Richard Gauthier<br clear="none">
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, May 04, 2015 1:18 PM<br clear="none">
<b>To:</b> Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion<br clear="none">
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [General] Electron Torus</span><span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal">Hi Chip,<span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal"> The radius of the circle in the horn torus (spin 1/2 photon model) should visually be (since it is actually) 1/2 of the radius of the circle in the spindle torus (spin 1 photon model) -- the spin 1/2 photon model is smaller
than the spin 1 photon model. Thanks! And could you perhaps show the energy quantum trajectory in a different color that the torus background so the trajectory stands out better?<span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal">On Mon, May 4, 2015 at 10:42 AM, Chip Akins <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:chipakins@gmail.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:chipakins@gmail.com"><span style="color:purple;">chipakins@gmail.com</span></a>> wrote:<span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal">Hi Richard<span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;"> General [mailto:</span><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:general-bounces%2Bchipakins" target="_blank" href="mailto:general-bounces%2Bchipakins"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">general-bounces+chipakins</span></a><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">=</span><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</span></a><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">] <b>On
Behalf Of </b>Richard Gauthier<br clear="none">
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, May 04, 2015 12:19 PM<br clear="none">
<b>To:</b> Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion<br clear="none">
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [General] Electron Torus</span><span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal">Hi Chip,<span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal"> Thanks. And finally, the vertical ovals of the tori should be circles because the circulating quantum has the same radius in the vertical and horizontal directions.<span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal">On May 4, 2015, at 9:32 AM, Chip Akins <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:chipakins@gmail.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:chipakins@gmail.com"><span style="color:purple;">chipakins@gmail.com</span></a>> wrote:<span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal">Hi Richard<span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal">Thank you.<span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal">Here you go:<span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;"> General [</span><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</span></a><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">] <b>On
Behalf Of </b>Richard Gauthier<br clear="none">
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, May 04, 2015 10:43 AM<br clear="none">
<b>To:</b> Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion<br clear="none">
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [General] Electron Torus</span><span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal">Hi Chip,<span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal"> Both tori should be symmetrical above and below the z-axis and center on z=0.<span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal">On May 4, 2015, at 8:16 AM, Chip Akins <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:chipakins@gmail.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:chipakins@gmail.com"><span style="color:purple;">chipakins@gmail.com</span></a>> wrote:<span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;"> General [</span><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</span></a><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">] <b>On
Behalf Of </b>Richard Gauthier<br clear="none">
<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, May 03, 2015 11:07 PM<br clear="none">
<b>To:</b> Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion<br clear="none">
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [General] position</span><span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal">Chip and all,<span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal"> Here are some equations that relate to the modeling of a circulating photon as an electron. The second and third set include my own model of the photon. The first set doesn’t require a particular model for the photon,
except as mentioned below. The first model is the one that generates the de Broglie wavelength as explained in my article mentioned below.<span style=""></span></div>
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<div class="yiv2445987559MsoNormal">1. Here is the set of parametric equations for the helical trajectory of double-looping photon that models a free electron, and whose circular radius for a resting electron is Ro=hbar/2mc. The speed of the photon along this
trajectory is always c. The longitudinal or z-component of the photon’s speed is the electron’s velocity v along the z-axis. The frequency of the photon around the helical axis is proportional to the circulating photon/electron's energy E=gamma mc^2. The distance
of the photon’s helical trajectory from the z-axis for an electron whose speed is v, is proportional to 1/gamma^2. This equation is in my article “The electron is a charged photon with the de Broglie wavelength”. This equation does not include a particular
model of the photon, but assumes that the photon follows the relations c=f lambda, E=hf and p=h/lambda. Both helicities of the helical trajectory are given.<span style=""></span></div>
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