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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Dear David,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">You have started a good discussion (most of it).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Much of it is covered in my paper “On the nature of stuff and the hierarchy of forces”, which is in final review internally at Philips. As a matter of fact
I have just received some comments that I will incorporate before submitting it to the conference.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Until soon,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Martin<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy">Dr. Martin B. van der Mark</span><span lang="DE" style="color:navy"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy">Principal Scientist, Minimally Invasive Healthcare</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:navy"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:navy"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy">Philips Research Europe - Eindhoven</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:navy"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy">High Tech Campus, Building 34 (WB2.025)</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:navy"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy">Prof. Holstlaan 4</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:navy"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy">5656 AE Eindhoven, The Netherlands</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:navy"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy">Tel: +31 40 2747548</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> General [mailto:general-bounces+martin.van.der.mark=philips.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>John Williamson<br>
<b>Sent:</b> woensdag 17 juni 2015 9:07<br>
<b>To:</b> David Mathes; Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Manohar .; Nick Bailey; Anthony Booth; Ariane Mandray<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [General] Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black">My turn for green ...<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black"> David Mathes [davidmathes8@yahoo.com]<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, June 17, 2015 4:52 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> John Williamson; Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Nick Bailey; Anthony Booth; Ariane Mandray; Manohar .<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [General] Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black">John W.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black">Good to hear from you again so soon...I'm in the red....<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black">David<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"> John Williamson <<a href="mailto:John.Williamson@glasgow.ac.uk">John.Williamson@glasgow.ac.uk</a>><br>
<b>To:</b> David Mathes <<a href="mailto:davidmathes8@yahoo.com">davidmathes8@yahoo.com</a>>; Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion <<a href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org">general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>>
<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Nick Bailey <<a href="mailto:nick@bailey-family.org.uk">nick@bailey-family.org.uk</a>>; Anthony Booth <<a href="mailto:abooth@ieee.org">abooth@ieee.org</a>>; Ariane Mandray <<a href="mailto:ariane.mandray@wanadoo.fr">ariane.mandray@wanadoo.fr</a>>;
Manohar . <<a href="mailto:manohar_berlin@hotmail.com">manohar_berlin@hotmail.com</a>>
<br>
<b id="yui_3_16_0_1_1434508064050_13264">Sent:</b> Tuesday, June 16, 2015 6:08 PM<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [General] Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion</span><span style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black">Hello David,</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black"><br>
<br>
</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black">I know you sent this to Viv, but I'll have a go ...</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:black"> General [general-bounces+john.williamson=glasgow.ac.uk@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org]
on behalf of David Mathes [davidmathes8@yahoo.com]<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, June 17, 2015 1:39 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [General] Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion</span><span style="color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black">Vivian<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black">Many of the electron models involve two photon loops. The rotating photon model you propose is certainly sobering, well reasoned and thought
out relying mostly on nature and experiment. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black">I use to think that physicists understood only 5% of the universe. After reading your website, I am encouraged to see that can be reduced to
approaching zero. This view certainly provide lots of room for improvement on many parts.<br>
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</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#003366">Too true!</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black">What is a photon is the conference question. "What is a photon" didn't strike me as good english or even american-speak. Like many others,
I have been wondering what is inside the electron and conjecturing it's some sort of photon with a strong bias towards nature and experiment as the final referee.
<br>
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</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#003366">Only referee.</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black">Like a little child, civilization has graduated from understanding the four elements to the Periodic Table to the 61 or so Elementary Particles.
For me, I graduated from taking apart clocks to seeing what made them tick, and cakes to understand not just the end result but the framework of layers and toppings, the transformation from field to fork according to a recipe, and molecules. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black">What I really wanted to know was what's inside the molecules, then the modern atoms, where Feynman noted, there is room at the bottom. Nanotechnology
is where the herds are discovering all sorts of wonderful materials and properties.<br>
<br>
Y</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#003366">ep. me nano-sheep. trying to grow down and become pico-sheep or even femto-sheep.</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#9D1811">With the photon we are even lower that femto...but not at the bottom.<br>
</span></b><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:green"><br>
True, and with the Z, for example - but physics will stop you before you get there. I think we should write a book about atto the sheep though!</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black">And here is this group focused on what is inside elementary particles, in particular, the electron. The electron is a key enigma and considered
the unit of basic charge, that is until quarks came along or rather were invented to balance the equations since nature for some reason (TBD) does not permit us to view quarks with our current technology. In our quest to decode nature's puzzles and enigmas,
We think topology and geometry play a role.<br>
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</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#003366">Quarks are not complete electromagnetic loops. They simply do not exist except as a mathematical symmetry. I am fairly sure about this as I used to hit them very hard, experimentally,
and they never came out. Martin will talk about their lack of physical existence in August.</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#9D1811">Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Try, try again. And this time either get a bigger hammer (LHC, ILC, Plasma Wakefield accelerator,
etc.). <br>
</span></b><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:green"><br>
True statement, but no in principle - we know the total mass-energy of the stable particles - and that they are somehow bound. Binding energy is negative energy. Also we know (roughly) bounds on the parton masses - and the percentage of the 4-momentum they
carry, from deep inelastic lepton scattering for example, because you can hit them. They cannot be supermassive. This leaves no room at the bottom for the poor little things to exist independently at all. Try pressing a particle physicist with this and you
will find they go all a splutter.</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#9D1811">For those so inclined, topological modeling of the quarks and gluons may provide some insight on whether another tool or another method
such as conditioning the energetic particles beyond U(1) to SU(2) and SU(3) levels may result in lower energy requirements and higher results.<br>
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</span></b><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:green">SU(3), for example, is related to rotations. Extended rotations are a better paradigm - in my view - than simply postulating little hard bits with that symettry. Why? when
proper double-covering rotations will do a better job? Geometry rules for me over little colored balls in a bag.</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#9D1811">Then there are the charged boson, +- W and the neutral Z particle. That should be enough for the standard model folks. Extending to SUSY
(E8 et al) should follow. For extra credit, try extending any parametric model to all the electron and photon models presented here.<br>
<br>
</span></b><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:green">E8 is a spastic hamburger solution. It is octonions crossed with octonions ( octonions are the biggest division algebra). It is pushed by mathematicians who think it is clever
to be as general as possible - while keeping cherished concepts from real numbers alive. All this would be fine if it were not for the fact that it predicts SOOO much that is NOT observed. Experimental non-observation of predicted phenomena by the old-fashioned
experimental method should mean : bin it!</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black">So that brings me to two questions.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black">1. What is the process of symmetrization for the electron?
<br>
<br>
</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#003366">Energy minimisation. Strongest force satisfied first. Maximal internal mass and field cancellation. Result: spherical symmetry.</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#9D1811">Apparent spherical symmetry externally while internally, there is a circulating toroidal massless photon or quanta.
<br>
</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:green"><br>
Exactly. In momentum space.</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#9D1811">For a parallel to spin frame of reference "at particle rest", the torus is an approximation of a sphere. If the torus is rotating and or
precessing, any experiment will produce apparent spherical results with some anomalies which are usually attributed to other factors beyond topology.<br>
<br>
</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:green">Yes</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black">This leads to understand photons...<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<div id="yiv1567293913yui_3_16_0_1_1434474634589_91724">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black">2. </span><span class="yiv1567293913"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black">What is inside the photon?</span></span><span style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black"><br>
<br>
<span class="yiv1567293913">Stuff. Stuff that can transform through proper spatial and temporal translations to other stuff. You may like to call it energy, but energy is just the scalar part, so we need another word for the bits that are current, field and
angular momentum. Anyone think of a better word than stuff?</span><br>
<br>
</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black">I realizing everyone likes a photon cause it's mainstream, and the conference is about photons et al. However, the real struggle is the internals
of the photon, no matter how improbable the models may seem, they suggest that the photon we know may actually be a quanta, spacetime or something else. One way out is to use multiple dimensions. Another way out is to renormalize. Another is to simply declare
the photon is the bottom. <br>
<br>
</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#003366">Too simple. Not so. Williamson1997 argued this. Williamson2015 thinks Williamson1997 was a bit simple.</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#9D1811">I'm on the road to 2015.
<br>
</span></b><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:green">2015 cannot came soon enough for me!</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black">I would hope the photon can be taken apart and like the clock, found to have some fascinating set of gears and mechanisms,
and perhaps an occasionally chime or nasty ringing noise. Perhaps addressing the other massless boson might provide clues to the nature of what is inside the photon. To wit, what is inside the gluon(s)?<br>
<br>
N</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#003366">o gluons. We know this because QCD is non-abelian and hence one should observe "glueballs". There are papers with my name on ot called things like "search for glueballs in ..."
Experimentally, theyu are just not there. This should kill QCD if one applies the scientific method, which is why the scientific methos has fallen so very out of fashion in HEP. This has to stop!</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#9D1811">I like to keep my options open. Perhaps this path needs to be paved with mathematical physics first. Then the experimentalists can try
again.<br>
</span></b><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:green"><br>
I can see my typo rate went through the roof .. and I forgot to "blue" some of my stuff! Mathematical physics is a fine thing - but it has to be subject to experiment and the current fashion is to let things stand -even if in conflict with experiment. In fact,
for some, it seems almost a badge of honour these days. </span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black">So this leads me to the next question<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black">3. What makes the photon tick?<br>
</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#003366"><br>
Space and time. Just look at the equations. What do you see? d space and d time.</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#9D1811">Inadequate.
<br>
<br>
</span></b><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:green">Hihi. Do not agree. d time is a tick (frequency) d space a transformation. John D is right: things only wave in space, in time they tick (and vibrate - with an inverse transformation).
<br>
<br>
I know what you mean though. My answer above was a bit facetious. There must exist something - call it stuff. That stuff may exist (at least) in scalar form (mass) vector form (current) bi-vector form (EM field), tri-vector form (angular momentum density) and
a confinining form (quadri-vector). It is an interesting discussion as to whether this is enough or one needs more. I'm looking forwards to it!</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span class="yiv1567293913"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black">As we stretch and strain photons looping them a few times to obtain an oscillating and resonant model, we simple do not know what
is inside the photon.</span></span><span style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black"><br>
<br>
</span><span class="yiv1567293913"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#003366">Speak for yourself!</span></span><span style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black"><br>
<br>
</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span class="yiv1567293913"><b><span style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#9D1811">LOL. I am.</span></b></span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span class="yiv1567293913"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black"> 4. Is there more "room at the bottom" below elementary particles?
</span></span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black"><br>
<br>
</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#003366">Yes!</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black">Ah, the quanta level of massless particles comprised of fields and more closely interacting with vacuum and spacetime.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black">Where is the bottom?<br>
</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#003366"><br>
Look below you!</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black">Best<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black">David<br>
<br>
</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:#003366">Cheers, John W.</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black">
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<div id="yiv1567293913yqtfd87316">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<div id="yiv1567293913yui_3_16_0_1_1434474634589_91726">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<div id="yiv1567293913yqt80677">
<div id="yiv1567293913yui_3_16_0_1_1434474634589_91725">
<div class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="text-align:center;background:white">
<span style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black">
<hr size="1" width="100%" align="center">
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:black"> Vivian Robinson <<a href="mailto:viv@etpsemra.com.au">viv@etpsemra.com.au</a>><br>
<b>To:</b> Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion <<a href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org">general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>>
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, June 16, 2015 2:35 PM<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [General] Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion</span><span style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div id="yiv1567293913yui_3_16_0_1_1434474634589_91861">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div id="yiv1567293913">
<div id="yiv1567293913yui_3_16_0_1_1434474634589_91860">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black">Dear All,
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div id="yiv1567293913yui_3_16_0_1_1434474634589_91883">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black">It has been a while since my last communication, primarily because of other activities. One of those is quite relevant to this discussion topic. Over the past
two + decades I have been trying to understand the photon and its role in shaping the universe, from its smallest sub atomic particles to its observed large scale structure. To this end I have finally compiled a 400+ A5 pages summary of this study. You can
see some information and extracts from it at my website <a href="http://www.universephysics.com/" target="_blank">
www.universephysics.com</a>. Its relevance to this discussion is that it strongly suggests that all particles, from the lightest neutrinos through the electron, proton and neutron to the heaviest cosmic rays and accelerator generated particles are all composed
of what I call rotating photons, i.e. photons of the appropriate energy making two revolutions within their wavelength. There is no other form of matter. For example, quarks with fractional charge and gluons have never been separately isolated and identified.
Of course the theoreticians overcome that by developing a theory that gluons bind quarks together in such a way that the greater the quark separation the stronger the binding force. In the real world, the best reason for experimentalists not finding something
is because it doesn't exist. This study is in three space dimensions and time. This study is a Big Bang, dark energy, dark matter, black hole, cosmological constant, quark, gluon, string and brane free zone. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<div id="yiv1567293913yui_3_16_0_1_1434474634589_92066">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<div id="yiv1567293913yui_3_16_0_1_1434474634589_92020">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black">In the course of this work I have simplified the mathematics and used them to show how the rotating photon model matches dozens of measured properties of matter.
Equally important I have made dozens of experimentally testable predictions of properties of sub atomic particles, yielding properties that are unknown or known but not recognised as such. Included among these is the reduction in the diameter of the electron
(and other particles) with increasing velocity. I regard experiment as the only arbiter of the correctness or otherwise of a theory and have given plenty of opportunity for it to be tested experimentally.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<div id="yiv1567293913yui_3_16_0_1_1434474634589_92032">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black">The same applies for dark energy and dark matter. Under this model, the universe is infinite and static. The so-called anomalous type 1a supernova (SNe1a) intensities
are predictable in a steady state universe. There is no need for dark energy to explain it. The "rapid" rotation of galaxies, thought to be due to dark matter, does not need gravity to explain it. Both of those features are supported by the necessary mathematics
and experimental observations. The so-called "pillars" of the Big Bang theory:-<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black">The redshift of photons from distant galaxies<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black">Olber's paradox and the dark night sky<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black">An infinite static universe will collapse under its own gravitational attraction<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black">The greater prevalence of quasars at higher redshift<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black">The hydrogen to helium ratio<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<div id="yiv1567293913yui_3_16_0_1_1434474634589_92047">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black">all have very good explanations under this infinite steady state model. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<div id="yiv1567293913yui_3_16_0_1_1434474634589_92048">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<div id="yiv1567293913yui_3_16_0_1_1434474634589_92049">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black">Even before I completed this work, it was apparent to some people that the difference between cosmologists theory for the observed universe and the observed
universe was 24 times the mass/energy of the observed universe plus 10^60 other universes in the multiverse, plus several additional undetected space dimensions. Setting aside the 10^60 other universes, which are matched by this infinite static universe model,
that still leaves a difference between theory and observation of 24 times the mass/energy of the observed universe. Until such time as dark energy and dark matter are confirmed, that is an error between theory and observation. As I indicate in my summary,
that must be the largest error between theory and observation in the recorded history of human endeavour (mathematical division by zero excluded). If anyone knows of a larger error, I would be happy to read about it. Many members of the general public, and
some dissenting physicists and other scientists are not happy with such a significant difference being portrayed as the best answer developed by those who call themselves the best scientific minds. Recently the New York Times published an article titled <a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/07/opinion/a-crisis-at-the-edge-of-physics.html?_r=1" target="_blank" id="yiv1567293913yui_3_16_0_1_1434076349702_19972"><span style="font-size:9.0pt;background:white">A
Crisis at the Edge of Physics</span></a>, in which it quoted an article published in Nature in which the authors were critical of some scientists claiming elegant theories did not need to be tested experimentally. Such an article in NY Times is an indication
there is public interest in these topics. Many members of the general public are not happy that the difference between theory and experiment is 24 times the mass energy of the observed universe. I use this as an example that there is considerable dissent in
the scientific community and among the general public against those standard model ideas and there is a need for suitable alternative explanations.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black">If you go to that website an look at the back cover of this paperback, the last sentence reads: "Using little more than good high school mathematics, some readers
will be able to understand topics that baffled Einstein and calculate properties properties of nuclei that baffle nuclear physicists." IMHO this is no idle boast. Using Einstein's principle of mass distorting space-time causing gravity, it shows why an infinite
static universe will not collapse under the gravitational attraction without needing a cosmological constant. As for nuclear physics I give rules for determining the structure of any isotope of any nucleus, giving its arrangement of protons and neutrons, its
spin, approximate magnetic moment, the skin effect, and with a little more work, its dimensions from its binding energy (or its binding energy from its dimensions, as well as the probability of it being a stable or long life isotope versus a short life radioactive
nucleus, as well as some other properties. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<div id="yiv1567293913yui_3_16_0_1_1434474634589_92016">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black">The reason for this email is to suggest that the topic under discussion at the upcoming SPIE conference has somewhat greater implications than you may be aware.
It is my suggestion that understanding the photon and the way it makes two revolutions per wavelength to form particles aren't just important. They are everything in physics, calculating Newton's universal gravitational constant G excluded (which I haven't
done). I am currently travelling and not able to give more information. I will be meeting with John W in Glasgow in a couple of weeks and will pass further information across to him then. If I am unable to make it to the SPIE conference, which looks increasingly
likely, John W may be able to convey more information to you after our meeting. In the meantime I make no apology for agreeing with most of the aspects about the photon forwarded by John W and Martin vdM and remain skeptical about contrary ideas forwarded
by others. I am now moving out of telecommunications range for a few days.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black">Cheers,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black">Vivian Robinson. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<div id="yiv1567293913yui_3_16_0_1_1434474634589_92006">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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