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<div style="direction: ltr;font-family: Tahoma;color: #000000;font-size: 10pt;">Hihi, a critic.<br>
<br>
Don't worry. Though his criticism is well beyond the level of some of my recent referees it is still not at proper level. This does not mean that the concept of a "charged photon" is useful, just that his criticism is merely based on an (incomplete) understanding
of the standard model as it stands.<br>
<font color="003366"><br>
I will be very brief (in blue) - as I do not have much time - got far more important things to do and to worry about</font><br>
<div style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #000000; font-size: 16px">
<hr tabindex="-1">
<div style="direction: ltr;" id="divRpF485217"><font face="Tahoma" color="#000000" size="2"><b>From:</b> General [general-bounces+john.williamson=glasgow.ac.uk@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org] on behalf of Richard Gauthier [richgauthier@gmail.com]<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, June 22, 2015 12:57 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [General] Electrical Charge and Photons<br>
</font><br>
</div>
<div></div>
<div>
<div class="">Hi John W,</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Below is Stam’s (a PhD researcher in the physics department of the University of Tours) reply to the ResearchGate comment below on my charged photon model of the relativistic electron. I wonder if you agree with his specific criticism or not about
the proposed charged photon . Is Stam implying that all photon models of the electron would be wrong, or only mine? Thanks. Richard</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">
<p id="yui_3_14_1_1_1434929582291_3090" class="">Particles are defined by the Casimirs of the Poincaré group (mass and spin) and by their charges under internal symmetries. That's why the term ``charged photon'' is meaningless.</p>
<p class=""><br>
</p>
<p class=""><font color="003366">This is gobbledegook (though I know what he is on about). There is no "Casimirs of the Poincaré group". He is right, though, that the imposition of the Poincaré group precludes the existence of a "charged photon - which is what
I think he means (<font color="003366">t</font>ranslating "Casimirs" into <font color="003366">
"s</font>ymmetries". This is as I said all along - if you want a "photon" to be light-speed, it cannot be charged.<br>
</font></p>
<p class=""><br>
</p>
<p class="">are, of course, many other spin 1, massless, electrically neutral particles in extensions of the Standard Model-depending on the extension-but they do not mediate electromagnetic interactions, that's why they're not called photons. They may, also,
carry other internal charges. <br>
</p>
<p class=""><font color="000080"><br>
</font></p>
<p class=""><font color="000080">True, there are. So what?</font></p>
<p class=""><br>
</p>
<p class="">Indeed, the photon itself is the linear combination of the two, electrically neutral, gauge bosons of the SU(2) x U(1)_hypercharge gauge group of the Standard Model, that remains massless after spontaneous breaking of the symmetry to the U(1) of
electromagnetism-the other linear combination, the Z, acquires a mass-and does not mediate electromagnetic interactions. It carries weak charge and mediates weak interactions.</p>
<p class=""><br>
</p>
<p class=""><font color="000080">Indeed, and if he (or anyone else for that matter) actually understood what he was saying there we would be a lot further forwards. T<font color="000080">h</font>is is just a half<font color="000080">-understood statement of
<font color="000080">the current status of the standard model. Note the word "model" in the name.</font></font><br>
</font></p>
<p class=""><br>
</p>
<p id="yui_3_14_1_1_1434929582291_3076" class="">A spin 1 particle will or will not interact with specific spin 1/2 particles, depending on the properties of the interactions.</p>
<p class=""><br>
</p>
<p class=""><font color="333399">Bullshit. Photons (spin 1) interact with electrons (spin half). That is QED.T<font color="333399">h</font>is is just saying that t<font color="333399">hings do not interact if they do not interact, in fancy language.</font><br>
</font></p>
<p class=""><br>
</p>
<p class="">That it can do so at all is a consequence of Poincaré invariance (in particular, conservation of total angular momentum) but the internal symmetries dictate the rest.</p>
<p class=""><br>
</p>
<p class=""><font color="000080">Aha - the famous internal symmetries of all these structureless point particles.</font></p>
<p class=""><br>
</p>
<p class="">For instance neutrinos do not interact, directly, with photons-there's no neutrino-neutrino-photon vertex, since the neutrino is electrically neutral, even though neutrinos do have spin 1/2 and the photon does have spin 1. (They interact due to
the fact that neutrinos do interact, through weak interactions, with electrically charged leptons, that, since they are electrically charged, do interact with photons.)</p>
<p class=""><br>
</p>
<p class=""><font color="000080">Well that clears all that up then!</font><br>
</p>
<p class=""><font color="003366"><br>
</font></p>
<p class=""><br>
</p>
<p class="">Therefore the last statements (``But what if...'’) </p>
<p class=""> (REFERS TO THIS STATEMENT BELOW: But what if the essential properties of the photon -- c, E=hf, and p=h/lambda -- remain unobserved in the electron (yet generate the electron's de Broglie wavelength and the electron's quantum wave functions), while
the observed properties spin, charge and rest mass of the charged photon--now called an electron -- are different that that of the ordinary photon. Are you saying that this view is not physically meaningful or contradicts any current physical theory?)</p>
<p class="">are wrong. The correct formulation is explained in all books and courses on quantum field theory, cf. <a href="https://www.researchgate.net/go.Deref.html?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.damtp.cam.ac.uk%2Fuser%2Ftong%2Fqft.html" class="" target="_blank">http://www.damtp.cam.ac.uk/user/tong/qft.html</a>,
for instance, and a discussion forum isn't the appropriate context for such a course-only for discussions once the prerequisite material has been studied.</p>
<p class=""><br>
</p>
<p class=""><font color="000080"><font color="000080">He is righ<font color="000080">t. You need to read some big books.</font></font> I looked at
<font color="000080">Tong's</font> stuff before tho<font color="000080">ugh and it is<font color="000080"> m</font></font>uch too simple minded<font color="000080">. It is just a re-hash of some standard QFT.
<font color="000080">It is worth studying, but does not bring any insight into any of the limits or limitations or ifs or buts. It glosses over them or simply misses them out completely. You are much better off reading Dirac, or Feynmann, or Freeman Dyson as
he suggests.</font><br>
</font></font></p>
<p class=""><br>
</p>
<p class=""><font color="000080">To answer your other questions. He is also attacking only your concept of the "charged photon", as far as I can tell. Martin and my model, for example,incorporates the Poincaré group symettries from the start. My current theory
includes these as elements of "absolute relativity", but is even more restrictive right from the beginning.</font></p>
<p class=""><font color="000080"><br>
</font></p>
<p class=""><font color="000080">Richard - this is for you - I will not get mired in online discussion groups (they absorb far too much time and most of the users do not get much but feel safe enough in an online context to bullshit) so please do not quote
me to him or get me involved. I have far more pressing demands on my time.</font></p>
<p class=""><br>
</p>
<p class=""><font color="000080"><font color="000080"><font color="000080"><font color="000080">Regards, John.</font></font></font></font><br>
</p>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<br class="">
<i class="">Can an electron be a charged photon with spin 1/2 hbar? - ResearchGate</i>. Available from:
<a href="https://www.researchgate.net/post/Can_an_electron_be_a_charged_photon_with_spin_1_2_hbar" class="" target="_blank">
https://www.researchgate.net/post/Can_an_electron_be_a_charged_photon_with_spin_1_2_hbar</a> [accessed Jun 21, 2015].</div>
<br class="">
<div>
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">On Jun 21, 2015, at 7:33 AM, Richard Gauthier <<a href="mailto:richgauthier@gmail.com" class="" target="_blank">richgauthier@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<div class="">
<div class="" style="word-wrap:break-word">
<div class="">Hello John W and others,</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
<div class=""> I recently posed a question on ResearchGate on my charged photon model — “Can an electron be a charged photon with spin 1/2 hbar?", and am getting some good feedback. You are all welcome to join the discussion there and share your views, criticisms
and comments. Here’s my reply to one of the questions:</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Hello Stam, Thank your for your comments and criticisms. I am not saying that a spin 1 uncharged photon with no rest mass is the same as a spin 1/2 charged electron with rest mass. Clearly these are two different particles. What I am proposing
is that a hypothetical particle (a charged photon) may have the essential properties of an ordinary photon -- its speed of light c, its momentum p=h/lambda and its energy E=hf relationships -- and yet have a different spin, charge and rest mass than the ordinary
photon. We may differ on what we think are the essential properties of a photon, but I think that the properties of a photon -- the photon's charge, spin and rest mass --which change in a particle transformation such as electron-positron pair production when
a photon interacts with an atomic nucleus (to conserve linear momentum) may be less essential to the fundamental nature of the photon than the properties of the proposed hypothetical photon that may remain--c, p=h/lambda and E=hf--to form the electron with
its charge, spin and rest mass. So I am proposing that it may be useful to think of photons as coming in two varieties that both have the speed of light, energy and momentum properties mentioned above but have different charge, spin and rest mass. In pair
production, one particle--the photon-- is transformed into two different particles. The spin 1 photon converts to 2 spin 1/2 particles, the uncharged photon is converted into two oppositely charged particles, and the no-rest-mass photon is converted into 2
particles with rest mass, when the the incoming photon has sufficient energy. But what if the essential properties of the photon -- c, E=hf, and p=h/lambda -- remain unobserved in the electron (yet generate the electron's de Broglie wavelength and the electron's
quantum wave functions), while the observed properties spin, charge and rest mass of the charged photon--now called an electron -- are different that that of the ordinary photon. Are you saying that this view is not physically meaningful or contradicts any
current physical theory? <br class="">
<i class="">Can an electron be a charged photon with spin 1/2 hbar? - ResearchGate</i>. Available from: <a href="https://www.researchgate.net/post/Can_an_electron_be_a_charged_photon_with_spin_1_2_hbar" class="" target="_blank">https://www.researchgate.net/post/Can_an_electron_be_a_charged_photon_with_spin_1_2_hbar</a> [accessed
Jun 21, 2015].</div>
</div>
<br class="">
<div class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">On Jun 19, 2015, at 7:53 PM, John Williamson <<a href="mailto:John.Williamson@glasgow.ac.uk" class="" target="_blank">John.Williamson@glasgow.ac.uk</a>> wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<div class="">
<div class="" style="font-style:normal; font-variant:normal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; line-height:normal; orphans:auto; text-align:start; text-indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; widows:auto; word-spacing:0px; direction:ltr; font-family:Tahoma; font-size:10pt">
Dear John M,<br class="">
<br class="">
Thank you for your reply. I think there is very much that is good in your work and your thinking, but I think you perhaps have started from the wrong place in feeling that you have to put in<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span class="" lang="en-US"><font class="" face="Calibri,sans-serif" size="2"><span class="" style="font-size:11pt"><font class="" face="Times New Roman,serif" size="3"><span class="" style="font-size:12pt">G,
c,<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></font><font class="" face="Cambria Math,serif" size="3"><span class="" style="font-size:12pt">ħ</span></font><font class="" face="Times New Roman,serif" size="3"><span class="" style="font-size:12pt"><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>and
ε</span></font><font class="" face="Times New Roman,serif" size="-1"><sub class="">o</sub></font><font class="" face="Times New Roman,serif" size="3"><span class="" style="font-size:12pt"><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>from the beginning (let
alone the fine structure constant!).<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">
<br class="">
These are constants you should aspire to get out of a fundamental theory.<br class="">
</span></font></span></font></span><br class="">
<span class="" lang="en-US"><font class="" face="Calibri,sans-serif" size="2"><span class="" style="font-size:11pt"><font class="" face="Times New Roman,serif" size="3"><span class="" style="font-size:12pt">The starting point of mega- giga-tera-peta-exa astronomical
energy densities (I don't think even that was enough zeroes!) is anyway, for most, not the fashionable, central point of physics as it stands, but rather the crazy edge where current physics is thought to, as your Wikipedia quote suggests, break down. Now
this would not matter to me, if it was not for the fact that this, in our joint discussion, may mistakenly be taken by others in the outside world as a necessary part of our, and hence my, new theory of light and matter. Like it or not, we will get seen as
a group. It is the natural error you made yourself when you joined this group and confused what was essentially Richards position, of being representive of my, Martin's Andrew's, Viv's and Chandra's positions. Just not so! I am already being dismissed by current
physics as crazy as it is without associating myself with more things though to be beyond-the-pale.<br class="">
<br class="">
Coming back to the physics: your analogies of light and material particles, as vibrations of the underlying medium of space and time, stand without starting from some fixed properties. For me this has the added advantage of being far closer to my position -
that much of what we perceive as reality stems from the underlying nature of space and time. Here, we agree. The point is -why give yourself a fixed limit based on a handful of physical constants set as your starting point (and thus further immutable and incalculable).
Far better to calculate G in terms of electromagnetism rather than put it in a-priori (which is what Martin and my toy model does - toy or not). As I said before, space and time have to be stiff and strong, not massive and energetic, and it is actually these
properties that you use to derive your results. Change your limit and the strain in the oscillations goes from the far sub-quantum to something closer to the actual kind of vibration observed in particles. Why not just take it all the way to that which you
observe? Forget about there being a "maximum possible" for any aspect of space-time. That is only of any relevance in extrapolating present theories grounded in experiment in the linear regime, far to the point where they become non-linear.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></font></span></font></span><span class="" lang="en-US"><font class="" face="Calibri,sans-serif" size="2"><span class="" style="font-size:11pt"><font class="" face="Times New Roman,serif" size="3"><span class="" style="font-size:12pt"><span class="" lang="en-US"><font class="" face="Calibri,sans-serif" size="2"><span class="" style="font-size:11pt"><font class="" face="Times New Roman,serif" size="3"><span class="" style="font-size:12pt">Why
start by limiting yourself, especially to something you do not actually know and in a regime completely in-accessible to human experiment!<br class="">
<br class="">
</span></font></span></font></span>Also, while on the theme of Gravitation, I want to take back much of what I said in the last paragraph in my previous email. It was partly due to me panicking a bit on not making enough progress with moving towards some looming
deadlines (mostly from work, though July 15th is also getting rapidly closer), and feeling the need to put in precious time to ground a discussion I felt was getting out of hand and absorbing too much of all our energies uneccesarily (as GenRel workes just
fine in explaining it as it is). My apologies. There should be no limit on any of our thinking. In fact, perhaps there should be a follow-up workshop on space, time and gravitation. This is something for discussion in the cafe's in San Diego. My only decent
point was that it was not, strictly, the theme of this upcoming conference.<br class="">
<br class="">
Regards, John W.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">
</span></font></span></font></span>
<div class="" style="font-family:'Times New Roman'; font-size:16px">
<hr tabindex="-1" class="">
<div id="divRpF516294" class="" style="direction:ltr"><font class="" face="Tahoma" size="2"><b class="">From:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>General [<a href="mailto:general-bounces+john.williamson=glasgow.ac.uk@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" class="" style="color:rgb(149,79,114); text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">general-bounces+john.williamson=glasgow.ac.uk@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>]
on behalf of John Macken [<a href="mailto:john@macken.com" class="" style="color:rgb(149,79,114); text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">john@macken.com</a>]<br class="">
<b class="">Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Friday, June 19, 2015 11:33 PM<br class="">
<b class="">To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>'Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion'<br class="">
<b class="">Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [General] Electrical Charge and Photons<br class="">
</font><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""></div>
<div class="">
<div class="WordSection1">
<div class="" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif; line-height:15.546667098999023px">
<span class="" style="font-size:12pt; line-height:16.959999084472656px; font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">John W.</span></div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif; line-height:15.546667098999023px">
<span class="" style="font-size:12pt; line-height:16.959999084472656px; font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"> </span></p>
<div class="" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif; line-height:15.546667098999023px">
<span class="" style="font-size:12pt; line-height:16.959999084472656px; font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">Thank you for your thoughtful views and summary of past discussions. I have one small point of clarification of my position. First, the term “Planck
scale” has a specific meaning which does not fit with my work on particles and forces. Here is what Wikipedia has to say about “Planck scale”<span class="" style="color:blue"></span></span></div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif; line-height:15.546667098999023px">
<span class="" style="font-size:12pt; line-height:16.959999084472656px; font-family:'Times New Roman',serif; color:blue"> </span></p>
<div class="" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif; line-height:15.546667098999023px">
<span class="" style="font-size:12pt; line-height:16.959999084472656px; font-family:'Times New Roman',serif; color:rgb(37,37,37); background-color:white">“In </span><span class="" style="font-size:12pt; line-height:16.959999084472656px; font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Particle_physics" title="Particle physics" class="" style="color:rgb(149,79,114); text-decoration:underline" target="_blank"><span class="" style="color:rgb(11,0,128); background-color:white; text-decoration:none">particle
physics</span></a><span class="" style="color:rgb(37,37,37); background-color:white"> and </span><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physical_cosmology" title="Physical cosmology" class="" style="color:rgb(149,79,114); text-decoration:underline" target="_blank"><span class="" style="color:rgb(11,0,128); background-color:white; text-decoration:none">physical
cosmology</span></a><span class="" style="color:rgb(37,37,37); background-color:white">, the <b class="">Planck scale</b> is an </span><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_scale" title="Energy scale" class="" style="color:rgb(149,79,114); text-decoration:underline" target="_blank"><span class="" style="color:rgb(11,0,128); background-color:white; text-decoration:none">energy
scale</span></a><span class="" style="color:rgb(37,37,37); background-color:white"> around 1.22 × 10<sup class="">19</sup> </span><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GeV" title="GeV" class="" style="color:rgb(149,79,114); text-decoration:underline" target="_blank"><span class="" style="color:rgb(11,0,128); background-color:white; text-decoration:none">GeV</span></a><span class="" style="color:rgb(37,37,37); background-color:white"> (which
corresponds to the </span><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass%E2%80%93energy_equivalence" title="Mass–energy equivalence" class="" style="color:rgb(149,79,114); text-decoration:underline" target="_blank"><span class="" style="color:rgb(11,0,128); background-color:white; text-decoration:none">mass–energy
equivalence</span></a><span class="" style="color:rgb(37,37,37); background-color:white"> of the </span><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planck_mass" title="Planck mass" class="" style="color:rgb(149,79,114); text-decoration:underline" target="_blank"><span class="" style="color:rgb(11,0,128); background-color:white; text-decoration:none">Planck
mass</span></a><span class="" style="color:rgb(37,37,37); background-color:white">2.17645 × 10<sup class="">−8</sup> kg) at which </span><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_effects" title="Quantum effects" class="" style="color:rgb(149,79,114); text-decoration:underline" target="_blank"><span class="" style="color:rgb(11,0,128); background-color:white; text-decoration:none">quantum
effects</span></a><span class="" style="color:rgb(37,37,37); background-color:white"> of </span><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravity" title="Gravity" class="" style="color:rgb(149,79,114); text-decoration:underline" target="_blank"><span class="" style="color:rgb(11,0,128); background-color:white; text-decoration:none">gravity</span></a><span class="" style="color:rgb(37,37,37); background-color:white"> become
strong. At this scale, present descriptions and theories of sub-atomic particle interactions in terms of </span><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_field_theory" title="Quantum field theory" class="" style="color:rgb(149,79,114); text-decoration:underline" target="_blank"><span class="" style="color:rgb(11,0,128); background-color:white; text-decoration:none">quantum
field theory</span></a><span class="" style="color:rgb(37,37,37); background-color:white"> break down.”</span><span class="" style="color:blue"></span></span></div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif; line-height:15.546667098999023px">
<span class="" style="font-size:12pt; line-height:16.959999084472656px; font-family:'Times New Roman',serif; color:blue"> </span></p>
<div class="" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif; line-height:15.546667098999023px">
<span class="" style="font-size:12pt; line-height:16.959999084472656px; font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">For example, my model of an electron is a Planck length and Planck time displacement of spacetime, rotating at the speed of light, but this is not the
same as “Planck scale”. The displacement occurs over a radial distance equal to an electron’s reduced Compton wavelength (about 3.86x10<sup class="">-13</sup><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>m). In order for this to be Planck scale (Planck energy)
the same displacement would have to occur over a distance equal to Planck length. <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif; line-height:15.546667098999023px">
<span class="" style="font-size:12pt; line-height:16.959999084472656px; font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"> </span></p>
<div class="" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif; line-height:15.546667098999023px">
<span class="" style="font-size:12pt; line-height:16.959999084472656px; font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">The important point is that even though the displacement of spacetime is the same, the “strain amplitude” is the important measurement of wave amplitude.
For example, an electron has strain amplitude of:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><i class="">A<sub class="">s</sub></i><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>=<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><i class=""><span class="" style="font-size:12pt; line-height:16.959999084472656px; font-family:'Cambria Math',serif">L<sub class="">p</sub></span></i><span class="" style="font-size:12pt; line-height:16.959999084472656px; font-family:'Cambria Math',serif">/<i class=""><s class="">λ</s></i><sub class="">c</sub><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>≈
4.18x10<sup class="">-23</sup><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>(a dimensionless number) while the strain amplitude of a hypothetical Planck mass would be<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><i class="">A<sub class="">s</sub></i><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>=<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><i class="">L<sub class="">p</sub>/L<sub class="">p</sub></i><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>=
1 (the maximum possible strain amplitude). An electron’s reduced angular frequency divided by Planck frequency is also<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><i class="">ω</i><sub class="">c</sub>/<i class="">ω</i><sub class="">p</sub><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>≈
4.18x10<sup class="">-23</sup>. In fact, this number occurs everywhere when describing properties of an electron. Even the previously discussed ratio of the forces produced between two electrons at arbitrary distance<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><i class="">r</i><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> is:</span></div>
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<span class="" style="font-size:12pt; line-height:16.959999084472656px; font-family:'Cambria Math',serif"> </span></p>
<div class="" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif; line-height:15.546667098999023px">
<i class=""><span class="" style="font-size:12pt; line-height:16.959999084472656px; font-family:'Cambria Math',serif">F<sub class="">g</sub>/F<sub class="">e</sub>α</span></i><sup class=""><span class="" style="font-size:12pt; line-height:16.959999084472656px; font-family:'Cambria Math',serif">-1</span></sup><span class="" style="font-size:12pt; line-height:16.959999084472656px; font-family:'Cambria Math',serif"><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>=<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><i class="">A<sub class="">s</sub></i><sup class="">2</sup><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>=
(4.18x10<sup class="">-23</sup>)<sup class="">2</sup> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></div>
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<span class="" style="font-size:12pt; line-height:16.959999084472656px; font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">I admit that the proposed energy density of the vacuum can be classified as Planck scale, but that is undetectable energy that lacks angular momentum.
It is not really the same as any type of observable energy that we might encounter. It merely is necessary to give spacetime its properties of G, c,<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span class="" style="font-size:12pt; line-height:16.959999084472656px; font-family:'Cambria Math',serif">ħ</span><span class="" style="font-size:12pt; line-height:16.959999084472656px; font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>and
ε<sub class="">o</sub>. It is the background “quantum foam” that forms the characteristics of spacetime. Spacetime is not a fixed grid. Because of this activity, it is not possible to reference motion relative to spacetime. </span></div>
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<span class="" style="font-size:12pt; line-height:16.959999084472656px; font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">John M.</span></div>
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<b class="">From:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>General [<a href="mailto:general-bounces+john=macken.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" class="" style="color:rgb(149,79,114); text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">mailto:general-bounces+john=macken.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>]<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="">On
Behalf Of<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>John Williamson<br class="">
<b class="">Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Friday, June 19, 2015 12:36 AM<br class="">
<b class="">To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion<br class="">
<b class="">Cc:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Manohar .; Nick Bailey; Anthony Booth; Ariane Mandray<br class="">
<b class="">Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [General] Electrical Charge and Photons</div>
</div>
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<span class="" style="font-size:10pt; font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif" lang="EN-GB">Dear people,<br class="">
<br class="">
There is no issue. The speed of light has, as John M and Martin say, a definition. It is the rate of change of space with respect to time. Measured locally. Given this definition it is as John D points out, a tautology that the speed of light is constant as
measured in all inertial frames. With this definition it then makes no sense to say that something that is constant varies.<br class="">
<br class="">
In accelerated or gravitational frames the situation is different - exactly as John M points out. Indeed, as John D says the speed of light may be viewed as varying with respect to space wrt any given observer. Equally, it may be viewed as a variation on the
rate of change of space with respect to some standard. These are reciprocal views of the same thing. You can say I want to keep my space constant and vary velocity (John D), or keep my velocity constant and vary space (John M and Martin). It is worth noting
though that describing particles as terms of vibrations of the elastic spacetime medium (John D and John M) is inconstistent with keeping space as a fixed grid!<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">
<br class="">
Frankly I do not give a damn ( I have a preference for constant velocity and inconstant space - but then), I can see both (or all three!) at the same time. So what? Provided the effect is very small (say compared to the wavelength of light) it does not matter
which way you choose to look at it, both are entirely equivalent. General relativity, in general, is written from the John M-Martin perspective). As Martin says, it works, and it describes the situation perfectly. END of story.<br class="">
<br class="">
Einstein did indeed worry about the limits - but Einstein worried about a lot of things. He was not one-shot one-idea Einstein. He played with ideas -looked at things from different angles. There is no definitive Einstein, and more than there is a definitive
Williamson, Macken, Duffield or van der Mark. Einstein, though I wish he was still here, is not. Smart though he was, he was not (just like the rest of us) always right. He cannot still argue for himself and we must not stand him up as an ultimate authority
on everything, but must argue from the merits of every standpoint.<br class="">
<br class="">
Now, this is all a very interesting discussion, but gravitation is a very weak (for me derivative of EM) effect. It only really becomes of any pertinence at all in terms of electromagnetism, the photon or the confinement of the electron at ridiculously, experimentally
unattainable densities at the Planck scale. Now this is a very interesting discussion- but is distracting me and many of you from the theme of the upcoming conference. We are wasting time on details 20 orders of magnitude outside of where we need to focus
for the time being. It is, in my view, really for a different conference in a different context at a different time.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">
<br class="">
Regards, John W.</span></div>
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<b class=""><span class="" style="font-size:10pt; font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif" lang="EN-GB">From:</span></b><span class="" style="font-size:10pt; font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif" lang="EN-GB"><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>General [<a href="mailto:general-bounces+john.williamson=glasgow.ac.uk@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" class="" style="color:rgb(149,79,114); text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">general-bounces+john.williamson=glasgow.ac.uk@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>]
on behalf of John Duffield [<a href="mailto:johnduffield@btconnect.com" class="" style="color:rgb(149,79,114); text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">johnduffield@btconnect.com</a>]<br class="">
<b class="">Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Friday, June 19, 2015 8:05 AM<br class="">
<b class="">To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>'Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion'<br class="">
<b class="">Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [General] Electrical Charge and Photons</span><span class="" style="font-size:12pt; font-family:'Times New Roman',serif" lang="EN-GB"></span></p>
</div>
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<span class="" style="font-size:12pt; font-family:Arial,sans-serif" lang="EN-GB">Martin:</span><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"></span></div>
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<span class="" style="font-size:12pt; font-family:Arial,sans-serif" lang="EN-GB"> </span><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"></span></p>
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<span class="" style="font-size:12pt; font-family:Arial,sans-serif" lang="EN-GB">I’m not dismissing the use of inertial reference frames. I’m trying to get you to pay attention to what Einstein said:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><i class="">light
curves because the speed of light varies with position.</i><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> </span><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"></span></div>
<div class="" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<span class="" style="font-size:12pt; font-family:Arial,sans-serif" lang="EN-GB">Please note I’m not proposing some idea I’ve dreamt up. I’m not some “my theory” guy. You aren’t disagreeing with me, you’re disagreeing with Einstein. I think this point is crucial
to avoid “geon” misunderstandings. So please explain why you think light curves in a gravitational field, and I’ll try to point out the issues with your explanation. The thing to appreciate is that there’s physicists out there who will teach you all about
general relativity, but when you read Einstein’s original material, you realise that they flatly contradicted Einstein whilst appealing to his authority.</span><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"></span></div>
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<span class="" style="font-size:12pt; font-family:Arial,sans-serif" lang="EN-GB"> </span><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"></span></p>
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<span class="" style="font-size:12pt; font-family:Arial,sans-serif" lang="EN-GB">Make sure you read this:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/physics/Relativity/SpeedOfLight/speed_of_light.html" class="" style="color:rgb(149,79,114); text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/physics/Relativity/SpeedOfLight/speed_of_light.html</a></span><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"></span></div>
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<span class="" style="font-size:12pt; font-family:Arial,sans-serif" lang="EN-GB"> </span><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"></span></p>
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<span class="" style="font-size:12pt; font-family:Arial,sans-serif" lang="EN-GB">This is the previous version:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://www.desy.de/user/projects/Physics/Relativity/SpeedOfLight/speed_of_light.html" class="" style="color:rgb(149,79,114); text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">http://www.desy.de/user/projects/Physics/Relativity/SpeedOfLight/speed_of_light.html</a></span><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"></span></div>
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<span class="" style="font-size:12pt; font-family:Arial,sans-serif" lang="EN-GB"> </span><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"></span></p>
<div class="" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<span class="" style="font-size:12pt; font-family:Arial,sans-serif" lang="EN-GB">PhysicsFAQ editor Don Koks rewrote this article after I pointed out that it contradicted itself. It previously said this:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB">This
[VSL] interpretation is perfectly valid and makes good physical sense, but a more modern interpretation is that the speed of light is constant in general relativity.</span><span class="" style="font-size:12pt; font-family:Arial,sans-serif" lang="EN-GB"><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> Followed
by this:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB">Finally, we come to the conclusion that the speed of light is not only observed to be constant; in the light of well tested theories of physics, it does not even
make any sense to say that it varies.</span><span class="" style="font-size:12pt; font-family:Arial,sans-serif" lang="EN-GB"><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span> </span><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"></span></div>
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<span class="" style="font-size:12pt; font-family:Arial,sans-serif" lang="EN-GB"> </span><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"></span></p>
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<span class="" style="font-size:12pt; font-family:Arial,sans-serif" lang="EN-GB">The speed of light varies in the room you’re in. If it didn’t, your pencil wouldn’t fall down.</span><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"></span></div>
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<span class="" style="font-size:12pt; font-family:Arial,sans-serif" lang="EN-GB">Regards</span><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"></span></div>
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<span class="" style="font-size:12pt; font-family:Arial,sans-serif" lang="EN-GB">John D</span><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"></span></div>
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<span class="" style="color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang="EN-GB"> </span><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"></span></p>
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<b class="">From:</b><span class="" style=""><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>General [<a href="mailto:general-bounces+johnduffield=btconnect.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" class="" style="color:rgb(149,79,114); text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">mailto:general-bounces+johnduffield=btconnect.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>]<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="">On
Behalf Of<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Mark, Martin van der<br class="">
<b class="">Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>18 June 2015 22:30<br class="">
<b class="">To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion<br class="">
<b class="">Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [General] Electrical Charge and Photons</span><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"></span></div>
</div>
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<span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
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<span class="" style="color:rgb(31,73,125)">John, here is a better quality print of the paper.</span><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"></span></div>
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<span class="" style="color:rgb(31,73,125)">Since you dismiss the use of inertial reference frames you are automatically screwing up the very notion of what the speed of light is.</span><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"></span></div>
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<span class="" style="color:rgb(31,73,125)">Hence you cannot, and are not, talking in a self-consistent fashion about it. Not that anything you say is wrong by itself, but it doesn’t make a logical or complete argument.</span><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"></span></div>
<div class="" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<span class="" style="color:rgb(31,73,125)">I have studied it for a long time and have seen people get their knickers in a twist, being confused, and so on. Apparently it is not easy: Frank Wilczek, Nobel laureate, cannot even get the photon in a box idea,
which you actually do get! I just cannot figure out where your problem is, really, it must be coming from contamination with another problem in physics, you see, you are a very associative thinker (I like that, but it requires retracing the sloppy jumps to
conclusions to make proper science).</span><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"></span></div>
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<span class="" style="color:rgb(31,73,125)">Cheers, Martin</span><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"></span></div>
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<span class="" style="color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"></span></p>
<div class="">
<div class="" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<span class="" style="font-size:10pt; font-family:Arial,sans-serif; color:navy" lang="DE">Dr. Martin B. van der Mark</span><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"></span></div>
<div class="" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<span class="" style="font-size:10pt; font-family:Arial,sans-serif; color:navy">Principal Scientist, Minimally Invasive Healthcare</span><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"></span></div>
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<span class="" style="color:navy"> </span><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"></span></p>
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<span class="" style="font-size:10pt; font-family:Arial,sans-serif; color:navy">Philips Research Europe - Eindhoven</span><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"></span></div>
<div class="" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<span class="" style="font-size:10pt; font-family:Arial,sans-serif; color:navy">High Tech Campus, Building 34 (WB2.025)</span><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"></span></div>
<div class="" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<span class="" style="font-size:10pt; font-family:Arial,sans-serif; color:navy">Prof. Holstlaan 4</span><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"></span></div>
<div class="" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<span class="" style="font-size:10pt; font-family:Arial,sans-serif; color:navy">5656 AE Eindhoven, The Netherlands</span><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"></span></div>
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<span class="" style="font-size:10pt; font-family:Arial,sans-serif; color:navy">Tel: +31 40 2747548</span><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"></span></div>
</div>
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<span class="" style="color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"></span></p>
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<b class=""><span class="" style="font-size:10pt; font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span class="" style="font-size:10pt; font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif"><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>General [<a href="mailto:general-bounces+martin.van.der.mark=philips.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" class="" style="color:rgb(149,79,114); text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">mailto:general-bounces+martin.van.der.mark=philips.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>]<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="">On
Behalf Of<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>John Duffield<br class="">
<b class="">Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>donderdag 18 juni 2015 22:08<br class="">
<b class="">To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>'Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion'<br class="">
<b class="">Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [General] Electrical Charge and Photons</span><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"></span></div>
</div>
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<span class="" style=""> </span><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"></span></p>
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<b class=""><span class="" style="color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang="EN-GB">Martin:</span></b><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"></span></div>
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<b class=""><span class="" style="color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang="EN-GB"> </span></b><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"></span></div>
<div class="" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<b class=""><span class="" style="color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang="EN-GB">Einstein said what he said. Light curves because the speed of light varies with position. Not because space is curved, or because spacetime is curved. But because space is<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://einsteinpapers.press.princeton.edu/vol7-trans/192?highlightText=%22neither%20homogeneous%22" class="" style="color:rgb(149,79,114); text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">inhomogeneous</a>,
see attached. Because a concentration of energy tied up in the guise of a massive star “conditions” the surrounding space, altering its metrical properties. And all that comes from the guy who said the mass of a body is a measure of its energy content, just
like your<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://www.tardyon.de/mirror/hooft/hooft.htm" class="" style="color:rgb(149,79,114); text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">light in a box</a>. So brace yourself my Flemish friend, and take
a stiff drink. Then watch my lips and listen carefully:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><i class="">what you’ve been taught about relativity is wrong</i>. Just like<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><i class=""><a href="http://www.fnal.gov/pub/today/archive/archive_2013/today13-02-15_NutshellReadMore.html" class="" style="color:rgb(149,79,114); text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">what
I was taught about electrons</a><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></i>is wrong. And note this: people, especially principal scientists, have a bad habit of rejecting anything that challenges what they were taught. That’s why it took you six years
to get that paper into a journal, and why eighteen years later, people<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><i class="">still</i><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>reject the idea that the electron is a photon going round and round. They would
rather believe in magic and wallow in mystery.</span></b><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"></span></div>
<div class="" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<b class=""><span class="" style="color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang="EN-GB"> </span></b><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"></span></div>
<div class="" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<b class=""><span class="" style="color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang="EN-GB">But we don’t, do we? </span></b><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"></span></div>
<div class="" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<b class=""><span class="" style="color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang="EN-GB"> </span></b><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"></span></div>
<div class="" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<b class=""><span class="" style="color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang="EN-GB">Andrew:</span></b><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"></span></div>
<div class="" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<b class=""><span class="" style="color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang="EN-GB"> </span></b><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"></span></div>
<div class="" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<b class=""><span class="" style="color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang="EN-GB">Re<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><i class="">once again we are in close agreement</i>, good stuff. If nobody agreed about anything, life would be hard, If we all agreed about
everything, life would be soft. But somewhere between the two, it’s just right. </span></b><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"></span></div>
<div class="" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<b class=""><span class="" style="color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang="EN-GB"> </span></b><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"></span></div>
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<b class=""><span class="" style="color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang="EN-GB">Regards</span></b><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"></span></div>
<div class="" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<b class=""><span class="" style="color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang="EN-GB">John D<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></b><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"></span></div>
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<span class="" style="color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang="EN-GB"> </span><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"></span></p>
<div class="">
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<b class="">From:</b><span class="" style=""><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>General [<a href="mailto:general-bounces+johnduffield=btconnect.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" class="" style="color:rgb(149,79,114); text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">mailto:general-bounces+johnduffield=btconnect.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>]<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="">On
Behalf Of<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Mark, Martin van der<br class="">
<b class="">Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>18 June 2015 12:26<br class="">
<b class="">To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion<br class="">
<b class="">Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [General] Electrical Charge and Photons</span><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"></span></div>
</div>
</div>
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<span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"> </span></p>
<div class="" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<span class="" style="color:rgb(31,73,125)">John, just forget it and go fishing.</span><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"></span></div>
<div class="" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<span class="" style="color:rgb(31,73,125)">If you do not want to use the same words for the same meaning as others have done, then there cannot be a discussion. Period.</span><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"></span></div>
<div class="" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<span class="" style="color:rgb(31,73,125)">Your potentially good understanding of relativity is severely hampered by it.</span><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"></span></div>
<div class="" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<span class="" style="color:rgb(31,73,125)">Have a beer, cheers, Martin</span><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"></span></div>
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<span class="" style="color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"></span></p>
<div class="">
<div class="" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<span class="" style="font-size:10pt; font-family:Arial,sans-serif; color:navy" lang="DE">Dr. Martin B. van der Mark</span><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"></span></div>
<div class="" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<span class="" style="font-size:10pt; font-family:Arial,sans-serif; color:navy">Principal Scientist, Minimally Invasive Healthcare</span><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"></span></div>
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<span class="" style="color:navy"> </span><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"></span></p>
<div class="" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<span class="" style="font-size:10pt; font-family:Arial,sans-serif; color:navy">Philips Research Europe - Eindhoven</span><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"></span></div>
<div class="" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<span class="" style="font-size:10pt; font-family:Arial,sans-serif; color:navy">High Tech Campus, Building 34 (WB2.025)</span><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"></span></div>
<div class="" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<span class="" style="font-size:10pt; font-family:Arial,sans-serif; color:navy">Prof. Holstlaan 4</span><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"></span></div>
<div class="" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<span class="" style="font-size:10pt; font-family:Arial,sans-serif; color:navy">5656 AE Eindhoven, The Netherlands</span><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"></span></div>
<div class="" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<span class="" style="font-size:10pt; font-family:Arial,sans-serif; color:navy">Tel: +31 40 2747548</span><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"></span></div>
</div>
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<span class="" style="color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"></span></p>
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<b class=""><span class="" style="font-size:10pt; font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span class="" style="font-size:10pt; font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif"><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>General [<a href="mailto:general-bounces+martin.van.der.mark=philips.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" class="" style="color:rgb(149,79,114); text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">mailto:general-bounces+martin.van.der.mark=philips.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>]<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="">On
Behalf Of<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>John Duffield<br class="">
<b class="">Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>donderdag 18 juni 2015 8:17<br class="">
<b class="">To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>'Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion'<br class="">
<b class="">Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [General] Electrical Charge and Photons</span><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"></span></div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<span class="" style=""> </span><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"></span></p>
<div class="" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<span class="" style="font-size:12pt; color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang="EN-GB">Martin:</span><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"></span></div>
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<span class="" style="font-size:12pt; color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang="EN-GB"> </span><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"></span></p>
<div class="" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<span class="" style="font-size:12pt; color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang="EN-GB">The problem is that the speed of light<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><i class="">isn’t</i><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>constant. Forget about inertial frames
or accelerated frames, because you cannot point up to the clear night sky and say<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><i class="">“look, there’s a reference frame”.</i><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>A reference frame is an abstract thing
associated with your measurements. Just think about the room you’re in. In this room an optical clock near the floor goes slower than an optical clock near the ceiling. And there is no actual time flowing through these clocks. Instead what you have in those
clocks is, at the fundamental level,<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><i class="">light, moving</i>. So why does light curve downwards? Let’s<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://einsteinpapers.press.princeton.edu/vol7-trans/156?highlightText=%22speed%20of%20light%22" class="" style="color:rgb(149,79,114); text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">ask
Einstein</a>:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"></span></div>
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<span class="" style="font-size:12pt; color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang="EN-GB"> </span><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"></span></p>
<div class="" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<span class="t-search-snippet1"><span class="" style="font-family:inherit; color:rgb(34,34,34)" lang="EN-GB">“Second, this consequence shows that the law of the constancy of the<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></span><span class="t-search-snippet-highlight"><span class="" style="font-family:inherit; color:rgb(34,34,34)" lang="EN-GB">speed</span></span><span class="t-search-snippet1"><span class="" style="font-family:inherit; color:rgb(34,34,34)" lang="EN-GB"><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>of<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></span><span class="t-search-snippet-highlight"><span class="" style="font-family:inherit; color:rgb(34,34,34)" lang="EN-GB">light</span></span><span class="t-search-snippet1"><span class="" style="font-family:inherit; color:rgb(34,34,34)" lang="EN-GB"><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>no
longer holds, according to the general theory of relativity, in spaces that have gravitational fields. As a simple geometric consideration shows, the curvature of light rays occurs only in spaces where the<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></span><span class="t-search-snippet-highlight"><span class="" style="font-family:inherit; color:rgb(34,34,34)" lang="EN-GB">speed</span></span><span class="t-search-snippet1"><span class="" style="font-family:inherit; color:rgb(34,34,34)" lang="EN-GB"><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>of<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></span><span class="t-search-snippet-highlight"><span class="" style="font-family:inherit; color:rgb(34,34,34)" lang="EN-GB">light</span></span><span class="t-search-snippet1"><span class="" style="font-family:inherit; color:rgb(34,34,34)" lang="EN-GB"><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>is
spatially variable”.</span></span><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"></span></div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<span class="" style="font-size:12pt; color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang="EN-GB"> </span><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"></span></p>
<div class="" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<span class="" style="font-size:12pt; color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang="EN-GB">Einstein never ever said light curves because spacetime is curved. He said<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://einsteinpapers.press.princeton.edu/vol6-trans/360?highlightText=%22velocity%20of%20light%22" class="" style="color:rgb(149,79,114); text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">this</a>:</span><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"></span></div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<span class="" style="font-size:12pt; color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang="EN-GB"> </span><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"></span></p>
<div class="" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<span class="t-search-snippet1"><span class="" style="font-family:inherit; color:rgb(34,34,34)" lang="EN-GB">“This was possible on the basis of the law of the constancy of the<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></span><span class="t-search-snippet-highlight"><span class="" style="font-family:inherit; color:rgb(34,34,34)" lang="EN-GB">velocity</span></span><span class="t-search-snippet1"><span class="" style="font-family:inherit; color:rgb(34,34,34)" lang="EN-GB"><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>of<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></span><span class="t-search-snippet-highlight"><span class="" style="font-family:inherit; color:rgb(34,34,34)" lang="EN-GB">light</span></span><span class="t-search-snippet1"><span class="" style="font-family:inherit; color:rgb(34,34,34)" lang="EN-GB">.
But according to Section 21, the general theory of relativity cannot retain this law”.</span></span><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"></span></div>
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<span class="" style="font-size:12pt; color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang="EN-GB"> </span><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"></span></p>
<div class="" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<span class="" style="font-size:12pt; color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang="EN-GB">And<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://einsteinpapers.press.princeton.edu/vol6-trans/340?highlightText=%22laid%20in%20the%20dust%22" class="" style="color:rgb(149,79,114); text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">this</a>.</span><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"></span></div>
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<span class="" style="font-size:12pt; color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang="EN-GB"> </span><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"></span></p>
<div class="" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<span class="" style="font-family:inherit" lang="EN-GB">“In the second place our result shows that, according to the general theory of relativity, the law of the constancy of the velocity of light in vacuo, which constitutes one of the two fundamental assumptions
in the special theory of relativity and to which we have already frequently referred, cannot claim any unlimited validity. A curvature of rays of light can only take place when the velocity of propagation of light varies with position. Now we might think that
as a consequence of this, the special theory of relativity and with it the whole theory of relativity would be laid in the dust. But in reality this is not the case. We can only conclude that the special theory of relativity cannot claim an unlimited domain
of validity; its results hold only so long as we are able to disregard the influences of gravitational fields on the phenomena (e.g. of light).”</span><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"></span></div>
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<span class="" style="font-size:12pt; color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang="EN-GB"> </span><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"></span></p>
<div class="" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<span class="" style="font-size:12pt; color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang="EN-GB">Like I said, some of the translations use the word velocity when it should have been speed. Light curves<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><i class="">because</i><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>the
speed of light varies with position. It isn’t totally unlike<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="http://fas.org/man/dod-101/navy/docs/es310/SNR_PROP/snr_prop.htm" class="" style="color:rgb(149,79,114); text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">sonar</a>.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"></span></div>
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<span class="" style="font-size:12pt; color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang="EN-GB"> </span><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"></span></p>
<div class="" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<span class="" style="font-size:12pt; color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang="EN-GB"><image001.gif></span><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"></span></div>
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<span class="" style="font-size:12pt; color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang="EN-GB"> </span><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"></span></p>
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<span class="" style="font-size:12pt; color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang="EN-GB"> </span><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"></span></p>
<div class="" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<span class="" style="font-size:12pt; color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang="EN-GB">So when your electron falls down, it ain’t magic:</span><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"></span></div>
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<span class="" style="font-size:12pt; color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang="EN-GB"> </span><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"></span></p>
<div class="" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<span class="" style="font-size:12pt; color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang="EN-GB"><image002.jpg></span><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"></span></div>
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<span class="" style="font-size:12pt; color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang="EN-GB"> </span><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"></span></p>
<div class="" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<span class="" style="font-size:12pt; color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang="EN-GB">Regards</span><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"></span></div>
<div class="" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
<span class="" style="font-size:12pt; color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang="EN-GB">John D</span><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"></span></div>
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<span class="" style="color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang="EN-GB"> </span><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"></span></p>
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<b class="">From:</b><span class="" style=""><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>General [<a href="mailto:general-bounces+johnduffield=btconnect.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" class="" style="color:rgb(149,79,114); text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">mailto:general-bounces+johnduffield=btconnect.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>]<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="">On
Behalf Of<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Mark, Martin van der<br class="">
<b class="">Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>17 June 2015 23:53<br class="">
<b class="">To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion<br class="">
<b class="">Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [General] Electrical Charge and Photons</span><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"></span></div>
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<span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB">Dear John D, </span></div>
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<span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB">As john M is corectly trying to point out, but i will say it in a slightly different way:</span></div>
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<span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB">The speed of light is supposed to be constant in an any inertial frame (and it is!!!). The pressence of a gravitational field implies an accelerated frame, by the principle of equivalence it can locally be replaced by an
accelerating space ship or elevator or what. </span></div>
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<span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB">What is the problem? Special relativity can already deal with this correctly, and there should be no confusion about the definitions.</span></div>
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<span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB">Claming that there is a problem with the non-constancy of the speed of light is a mistake: it is exactly non constant in the way it should be, in accordance with the constancy of light speed as measured in any inertial (lorentz)
frame or even very local, and if horizontal, in a gravitational field!</span></div>
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<span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB">Cheers, Martin<br class="">
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Verstuurd vanaf mijn iPhone</span></div>
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Op 17 jun. 2015 om 22:38 heeft John Macken <<a href="mailto:john@macken.com" class="" style="color:rgb(149,79,114); text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">john@macken.com</a>> het volgende geschreven:</span></p>
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<span class="" style="font-size:12pt; line-height:16.799999237060547px; font-family:'Times New Roman',serif; color:blue" lang="EN-GB">John D.</span><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"></span></div>
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<span class="" style="font-size:12pt; line-height:16.799999237060547px; font-family:'Times New Roman',serif; color:blue" lang="EN-GB"> </span><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"></span></p>
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<span class="" style="font-size:12pt; line-height:16.799999237060547px; font-family:'Times New Roman',serif; color:blue" lang="EN-GB">I disagree with two of your points and I am not sure if we agree or disagree on the third point. I will start with the constancy
of the speed of light. This is the one where I am not sure if we agree or disagree. I claim that the speed of light measured locally is constant. You agree but imply that this is a trivial point because both the meter and the second are defined by the speed
of light. If we were dealing with some abstract physics problem, I would agree. However, in the real world there are many more components which all change in a way to preserve the covariance of the laws of physics. For example, the all the following are
the same when it is measured in different gravitational potentials using different rates of time:</span><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"></span></div>
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<span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB">a)</span><span class="" style="font-size:7pt; line-height:9.799999237060547px; font-family:'Times New Roman',serif" lang="EN-GB"> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span class="" style="font-size:12pt; line-height:16.799999237060547px; font-family:'Times New Roman',serif; color:blue" lang="EN-GB">The
gravitational constant; b) the electron’s energy; c) the electron’s charge; d) the fine structure constant; e) a mass of 1 kg</span><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"></span></p>
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<span class="" style="font-size:12pt; line-height:16.799999237060547px; font-family:'Times New Roman',serif; color:blue" lang="EN-GB"> </span><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"></span></p>
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<span class="" style="font-size:12pt; line-height:16.799999237060547px; font-family:'Times New Roman',serif; color:blue" lang="EN-GB">I could go on, but the point is that saying that the speed of light is constant when measured locally is not a trivial statement.
Think about using a physical meter stick and a stop watch to measure the speed of light. All the atoms and forces in the meter stick and all the physical parts of the stop watch need to cooperate to give a constant speed of light when measured locally. <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"></span></div>
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<span class="" style="font-size:12pt; line-height:16.799999237060547px; font-family:'Times New Roman',serif; color:blue" lang="EN-GB"> </span><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"></span></p>
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<span class="" style="font-size:12pt; line-height:16.799999237060547px; font-family:'Times New Roman',serif; color:blue" lang="EN-GB">I am a strong believer that the speed of light is not constant if a hypothetical “zero gravity observer” uses his/her clock
to make the measurement. I think that if we were discussing the speed of light in person, we would decide that we agreed, but were using different words.</span><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"></span></div>
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<span class="" style="font-size:12pt; line-height:16.799999237060547px; font-family:'Times New Roman',serif; color:blue" lang="EN-GB"> </span><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"></span></p>
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<span class="" style="font-size:12pt; line-height:16.799999237060547px; font-family:'Times New Roman',serif; color:blue" lang="EN-GB">The next point will not go away so easily. You said:</span><span class="" style="font-size:12pt; line-height:16.799999237060547px; color:rgb(0,0,153)" lang="EN-GB"><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>“So
matter is deflected half as much as light.”</span><span class="" style="font-size:12pt; line-height:16.799999237060547px; font-family:'Times New Roman',serif; color:blue" lang="EN-GB">. If I understand this statement, you are claiming that if a neutron or
neutrino traveling at virtually the speed of light passes by the sun, the deflection would be different compared to the deflection of light. This implies that inside a closed spaceship that you can do an experiment that determines if you are in zero gravity
or in free fall in a gravitational field. The difference should theoretically be detectable by measuring the difference in the location of where photons and neutrons strike a target when they are shot transverse to the suspected gravitational field. This
is not going to happen. Again the extra volume created by gravity explains this.</span><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"></span></div>
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<span class="" style="font-size:12pt; line-height:16.799999237060547px; font-family:'Times New Roman',serif; color:blue" lang="EN-GB"> </span><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"></span></p>
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<span class="" style="font-size:12pt; line-height:16.799999237060547px; font-family:'Times New Roman',serif; color:blue" lang="EN-GB">The next point of disagreement is contained in the following:</span><span class="" style="font-size:12pt; line-height:16.799999237060547px; color:rgb(0,0,153)" lang="EN-GB"><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>“I’m
afraid the Shapiro experiment has not showed that the sun has enlarged the volume of the surrounding space</span><span class="" style="font-size:12pt; line-height:16.799999237060547px; font-family:'Times New Roman',serif; color:blue" lang="EN-GB">.” You then
quite from a 1964 paper which proposed the experiment. It is standard GR that in a gravitational field generated by a central mass you would get a different radial distance measured with a hypothetical tape measure compared to the radius calculated by measuring
the circumference and dividing by 2π. Therefore terms such as “circumferential radius” or “reduced radius” were coined to specify this difference. Here are two sentences from my book.</span><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"></span></div>
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<span class="" style="font-size:12pt; font-family:'Times New Roman',serif" lang="EN-GB">Suppose that it was possible to stretch a tape measure from the earth to the surface of the sun. The distance measured by the tape measure (proper distance) would be about
7.5 km greater than a distance obtained from an assumption of flat space and a Euclidian geometry calculation.</span><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"></span></div>
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<span class="" style="font-size:12pt; font-family:'Times New Roman',serif; color:blue" lang="EN-GB">The book goes on to calculate the non-Euclidian volume increase caused by the sun’s gravity within a spherical volume 1 AU in radius. The answer obtained is
3.46 × 10<sup class="">26</sup><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>m<sup class="">3</sup><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>which is more than 300,000 times larger than the volume of the earth (earth’s volume is ≈ 1.08 × 10<sup class="">21</sup><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>m<sup class="">3</sup>).
On page 2-13 of the book there is another calculation that compares the decrease in the rate of time and the increase in the radial dimension produced by gravity. Here is the conclusion. </span><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"></span></div>
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<span class="" style="font-size:12pt; font-family:'Times New Roman',serif" lang="EN-GB">When we include the time dimension and calculate the effect of the gravity generated by a single mass on the surrounding spacetime, we obtain the answer that the<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="">4</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>dimensional
spacetime volume is independent of gravitational gamma Г. The radial dimension increases (Г = dL<sub class="">R</sub>/dR) and the temporal dimension decreases (Г = dt/dτ). These offset each other resulting in the<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="">4</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>dimensional
volume remaining constant.</span><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"></span></div>
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<span class="" style="font-size:12pt; line-height:16.799999237060547px; font-family:'Times New Roman',serif; color:blue" lang="EN-GB">John M.</span><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"></span></div>
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<b class=""><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB">From:</span></b><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>General [<a href="mailto:general-bounces+john=macken.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" class="" style="color:rgb(149,79,114); text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">mailto:general-bounces+john=macken.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>]<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="">On
Behalf Of<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>John Duffield<br class="">
<b class="">Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Wednesday, June 17, 2015 10:18 AM<br class="">
<b class="">To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>'Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion'<br class="">
<b class="">Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [General] Electrical Charge and Photons</span></div>
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<span class="" style="font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,153)" lang="EN-GB">John M:</span><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"></span></div>
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<span class="" style="font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,153)" lang="EN-GB">With respect John, I’m being very precise. We use the local motion of light to define our metre and our second. Then we use them to measure… the local motion of light. Duh! The apparent
constancy is a tautology, and a popscience myth. Have a look at<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"><a href="http://arxiv.org/abs/0705.4507" class="" style="color:rgb(149,79,114); text-decoration:underline" target="_blank"><span class="" style="font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,153)">http://arxiv.org/abs/0705.4507</span></a></span><span class="" style="font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,153)" lang="EN-GB"><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>and
check out<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"><a href="http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/physics/Relativity/SpeedOfLight/speed_of_light.html" class="" style="color:rgb(149,79,114); text-decoration:underline" target="_blank"><span class="" style="font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,153)">this
Baez article</span></a></span><span class="" style="font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,153)" lang="EN-GB">. The speed of light varies in the room you’re in. Light goes slower near the floor than near the ceiling, and because of this, light curves. That’s what Einstein
said, repeatedly. Do your own research on this, see original material like<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"><a href="http://einsteinpapers.press.princeton.edu/vol6-trans/360?highlightText=%22velocity%20of%20light%22" class="" style="color:rgb(149,79,114); text-decoration:underline" target="_blank"><span class="" style="font-size:12pt">this</span></a></span><span class="" style="font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,153)" lang="EN-GB"><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>and
note that the English translations sometimes use the word velocity when the correct word to use is speed. Einstein refers to the SR postulate, which was the constant speed of light, and says it doesn’t apply where gravity is concerned. </span><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"></span></div>
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<span class="" style="font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,153)" lang="EN-GB">The deflection of light is twice the Newtonian deflection of matter because of the wave nature of matter. Simplify the electron to light going round and round. Then simplify it further to
light going round a square path. Then draw the light curving downwards, like this:</span><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"></span></div>
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<span class="" style="font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,153)" lang="EN-GB"><image003.jpg></span><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"></span></div>
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<span class="" style="font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,153)" lang="EN-GB">Can you envisage how the electron falls down? The reducing speed of light bleeds internal kinetic energy out into external kinetic energy, and once you’ve radiated that away, you’re left
with a<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binding_energy#Mass-energy_relation" class="" style="color:rgb(149,79,114); text-decoration:underline" target="_blank"><span class="" style="font-size:12pt">mass
deficit</span></a></span><span class="" style="font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,153)" lang="EN-GB">. Anyway, note that only the horizontals bend downwards? The verticals don’t. So only half the total light path is deflected. So matter is deflected half as much
as light.</span><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"></span></div>
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<span class="" style="font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,153)" lang="EN-GB">I’m afraid the Shapiro experiment has not showed that the sun has enlarged the volume of the surrounding space. See Shapiro’s paper attached, and note this:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><i class="">“the
speed of a light wave depends on the strength of the gravitational potential along its path”</i>. I’m afraid the people who tell you that the Sun has enlarged space, and that the speed of light is absolutely constant, are flatly contradicting Einstein, Shapiro,
and the hard scientific evidence. </span><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"></span></div>
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<span class="" style="font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,153)" lang="EN-GB">Re the shear-wave analogy, I was referring to transverse waves in an elastic solid. See the shear-stress term in the stress-energy-momentum tensor? Shear stress. It’s there because space
is something like a ghostly gin-clear elastic continuum. NB: electromagnetic waves are typically dipole transverse waves, whilst gravitational waves are said to be quadrupole transverse waves. </span><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"></span></div>
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<span class="" style="font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,153)" lang="EN-GB">Regards</span><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"></span></div>
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<span class="" style="font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,153)" lang="EN-GB">John D </span><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"></span></div>
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<b class=""><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB">From:</span></b><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>General [<a href="mailto:general-bounces+johnduffield=btconnect.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" class="" style="color:rgb(149,79,114); text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">mailto:general-bounces+johnduffield=btconnect.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>]<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="">On
Behalf Of<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>John Macken<br class="">
<b class="">Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>17 June 2015 17:12<br class="">
<b class="">To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>'Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion'<br class="">
<b class="">Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [General] Electrical Charge and Photons</span></div>
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<span class="" style="font-size:12pt; font-family:'Times New Roman',serif; color:blue" lang="EN-GB">John D.</span><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"></span></div>
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<span class="" style="font-size:12pt; font-family:'Times New Roman',serif; color:blue" lang="EN-GB">I think that you are not being precise enough when you say that the speed of light is not constant. There are two definitions for ways of measuring the speed
of light. In one of them the speed of light is constant and in the other the speed of light is not constant. If the speed of light is measured locally (using a local clock and ruler), then the speed of light is always constant. If you adopt a single clock
to measure the speed of light in different gravitational potentials, then the speed of light varies. </span><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"></span></div>
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<span class="" style="font-size:12pt; font-family:'Times New Roman',serif; color:blue" lang="EN-GB"> </span><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"></span></p>
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<span class="" style="font-size:12pt; font-family:'Times New Roman',serif; color:blue" lang="EN-GB">Even your interpretation of the amount that it varies depends on one other choice. This point will be illustrated with an example. When light is bent by passing
near a large mass such as the sun, the angle is twice what might be expected from the classical model of the light feeling gravitational acceleration and “falling” as it passed the massive body. The factor of 2 can be explained two different ways. I will
not go into the details here because they are covered in chapters 2 and 3 of my book. However, the key difference between these two choices lies in the handling of the gravitational effect on volume. The Shapiro experiment showed that the sun has enlarged
the volume of the surrounding space beyond what would be expected from Euclidian geometry. If the photon passing through this volume is given credit for having traveled a greater distance, then the effect on the radial coordinate speed of light is different
than if this effect on space is ignored and all the bending is attributed to a slowing in the coordinate speed of light. </span><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"></span></div>
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<span class="" style="font-size:12pt; font-family:'Times New Roman',serif; color:blue" lang="EN-GB"> </span><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"></span></p>
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<span class="" style="font-size:12pt; font-family:'Times New Roman',serif; color:blue" lang="EN-GB">On another point, I am not sure that I understood your comment about the analogy to the sheer wave speed of sound. Sound wave analogies break down when you
get into sheer waves. Spacetime does not need to be a rigid medium like a solid in order to be able to support transverse waves. When we are dealing with waves propagating at the speed of light, effects occur which are not analogous to waves propagating
at far less than the speed of light. The fact that gravitational waves are transverse waves without spacetime being a rigid body is one of these differences. </span><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"></span></div>
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<span class="" style="font-size:12pt; font-family:'Times New Roman',serif; color:blue" lang="EN-GB">John M.</span><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"></span></div>
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<b class=""><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB">From:</span></b><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>General [<a href="mailto:general-bounces+john=macken.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" class="" style="color:rgb(149,79,114); text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">mailto:general-bounces+john=macken.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>]<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="">On
Behalf Of<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>John Duffield<br class="">
<b class="">Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Tuesday, June 16, 2015 11:43 PM<br class="">
<b class="">To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>'Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion'<br class="">
<b class="">Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [General] Electrical Charge and Photons</span></div>
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<span class="" style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-GB">John M:</span><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"></span></div>
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<span class="" style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-GB"> </span><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"></span></p>
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<span class="" style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-GB">Take care with constants. In mechanics a shear wave travels at a velocity determined by the stiffness and density of the medium: </span><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"></span></div>
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<span class="" style="font-size:12pt; font-family:'Times New Roman',serif" lang="EN-GB"> </span><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"></span></p>
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<b class=""><span class="" style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-GB"> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></b><span class="" style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-GB"> v = √(G/ρ)</span><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"></span></div>
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<b class=""><span class="" style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-GB"> </span></b><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"></span></div>
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<span class="" style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-GB">The G here is the<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><i class="">shear modulus of elasticity</i>, the ρ is the density. The equation says a shear wave travels faster if the material gets stiffer, and
slower if the density increases. You can’t directly apply the concept of density to space, but in electrodynamics the velocity equation is remarkably similar:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"></span></div>
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<span class="" style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-GB"> </span><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"></span></p>
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<span class="" style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-GB"> c = √(1/ε<sub class="">0</sub>μ<sub class="">0</sub>)</span><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"></span></div>
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<span class="" style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-GB"> </span><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"></span></p>
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<span class="" style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-GB">People are taught that the speed of light is constant, but it simply isn’t true. See the second paragraph<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"><a href="http://einsteinpapers.press.princeton.edu/vol7-trans/156?highlightText=%22speed%20of%20light%22" class="" style="color:rgb(149,79,114); text-decoration:underline" target="_blank"><span class="" style="font-size:12pt">here</span></a></span><span class="" style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-GB">.
If the speed of light was constant in the room you’re in, optical clocks wouldn’t go slower when they’re lower, and your pencil wouldn’t fall down.</span><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"></span></div>
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<span class="" style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-GB">Regards</span><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"></span></div>
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<span class="" style="font-size:12pt" lang="EN-GB">John D</span><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"></span></div>
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<span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"><image003.jpg></span></div>
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<b class=""><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB">From:</span></b><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>General [<a href="mailto:general-bounces+johnduffield=btconnect.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" class="" style="color:rgb(149,79,114); text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">mailto:general-bounces+johnduffield=btconnect.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>]<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="">On
Behalf Of<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>John Macken<br class="">
<b class="">Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>17 June 2015 02:07<br class="">
<b class="">To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>'Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion'<br class="">
<b class="">Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [General] Electrical Charge and Photons</span></div>
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<span class="" style="font-size:12pt; font-family:'Times New Roman',serif" lang="EN-GB">Hello John W. and All,</span><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"></span></div>
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<span class="" style="font-size:12pt; font-family:'Times New Roman',serif" lang="EN-GB"> </span><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"></span></p>
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<span class="" style="font-size:12pt; font-family:'Times New Roman',serif" lang="EN-GB">In your response you said,</span><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"></span></div>
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<span class="" style="font-size:12pt; font-family:'Times New Roman',serif; color:blue" lang="EN-GB"> </span><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"></span></p>
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<span class="" style="font-size:12pt; font-family:'Times New Roman',serif; color:rgb(192,0,0)" lang="EN-GB">Just for the record, our toy model calculated big G in terms of 1/(4pi epsilon zero) ... thus eliminating (in principle) yet another natural constant
altogether:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"></span></div>
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<span class="" style="font-size:12pt; font-family:'Times New Roman',serif" lang="EN-GB"> </span><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"></span></p>
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<span class="" style="font-size:12pt; font-family:'Times New Roman',serif" lang="EN-GB">This is very interesting since this implies an alternative to my charge conversion constant<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><i class=""><span class="" style="font-size:12pt; font-family:'Cambria Math',serif" lang="EN-GB">η</span></i><span class="" style="font-size:12pt; font-family:'Times New Roman',serif" lang="EN-GB">.</span><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"></span></div>
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<span class="" style="font-size:14pt; font-family:'Times New Roman',serif" lang="EN-GB"> </span><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"></span></p>
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<i class=""><span class="" style="font-size:14pt; font-family:'Cambria Math',serif" lang="EN-GB">η</span></i><i class=""><span class="" style="font-size:14pt; font-family:'Times New Roman',serif" lang="EN-GB"> </span></i><span class="" style="font-size:14pt; font-family:'Cambria Math',serif" lang="EN-GB">≡</span><span class="" style="font-size:14pt; font-family:'Times New Roman',serif" lang="EN-GB"><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>(<i class="">G<b class="">/</b></i>4π<i class="">ε<sub class="">o</sub>c</i><sup class="">4</sup>)<sup class="">1/2<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></sup>=<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><i class="">L<sub class="">p<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></sub><b class="">/</b>q<sub class="">p</sub></i><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>≈
8.61 x 10<sup class="">-18<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></sup>m<b class=""><i class="">/</i></b>C</span><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"></span></div>
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<span class="" style="font-size:14pt; font-family:'Times New Roman',serif" lang="EN-GB"> </span><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"></span></p>
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<span class="" style="font-size:14pt; font-family:'Times New Roman',serif" lang="EN-GB">(1/4π<i class="">ε<sub class="">o</sub></i>)(1/</span><span class="MsoPlaceholderText" style="color:gray"><i class=""><span class="" style="font-size:14pt; font-family:'Cambria Math',serif; color:windowtext" lang="EN-GB">η</span></i></span><span class="MsoPlaceholderText" style="color:gray"><sup class=""><span class="" style="font-size:14pt; font-family:'Times New Roman',serif; color:windowtext" lang="EN-GB">2</span></sup></span><span class="MsoPlaceholderText" style="color:gray"><span class="" style="font-size:14pt; font-family:'Times New Roman',serif; color:windowtext" lang="EN-GB">)
=<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><i class="">c<sup class="">4</sup>/G</i></span></span><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"></span></div>
<div class="" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif; background-color:white">
<span class="MsoPlaceholderText" style="color:gray"><i class=""><span class="" style="font-size:14pt; font-family:'Times New Roman',serif; color:windowtext" lang="EN-GB">G</span></i></span><span class="MsoPlaceholderText" style="color:gray"><span class="" style="font-size:14pt; font-family:'Times New Roman',serif; color:windowtext" lang="EN-GB"><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>=
4π<i class="">ε<sub class="">o</sub>c<sup class="">4</sup></i></span></span><span class="MsoPlaceholderText" style="color:gray"><i class=""><span class="" style="font-size:14pt; font-family:'Cambria Math',serif; color:windowtext" lang="EN-GB">η</span></i></span><span class="MsoPlaceholderText" style="color:gray"><i class=""><sup class=""><span class="" style="font-size:14pt; font-family:'Times New Roman',serif; color:windowtext" lang="EN-GB">2</span></sup></i></span><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"></span></div>
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<span class="" style="font-size:14pt; font-family:'Times New Roman',serif" lang="EN-GB"> </span><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"></span></p>
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<span class="" style="font-size:12pt; font-family:'Times New Roman',serif" lang="EN-GB">I admit that I think that my charge conversion constant is perfect. Therefore, I would like to make a comparison to your derivation that eliminates the constant<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span class="" style="font-size:14pt; font-family:'Times New Roman',serif" lang="EN-GB">1/4πε<sub class="">o</sub>.</span><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"></span></div>
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<span class="" style="font-size:14pt; font-family:'Times New Roman',serif" lang="EN-GB"> </span><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"></span></p>
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<span class="" style="font-size:14pt; font-family:'Times New Roman',serif" lang="EN-GB">John M.</span><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"></span></div>
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<span class="" style="font-size:12pt; font-family:'Times New Roman',serif; color:blue" lang="EN-GB"> </span><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"></span></p>
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<b class=""><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB">From:</span></b><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>General [<a href="mailto:general-bounces+john=macken.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" class="" style="color:rgb(149,79,114); text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">mailto:general-bounces+john=macken.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>]<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="">On
Behalf Of<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>John Williamson<br class="">
<b class="">Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Tuesday, June 16, 2015 4:47 PM<br class="">
<b class="">To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion<br class="">
<b class="">Cc:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Manohar .; Nick Bailey; Ariane Mandray; Philipp Steinmann<br class="">
<b class="">Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [General] Electrical Charge and Photons</span></div>
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<span class="" style="font-size:10pt; font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif" lang="EN-GB">Dear John M and everyone,<br class="">
<br class="">
Indeed it is useful to think about the relationship between things. I also agree with John M that gravity and electromagnetism are different aspects of the same thing. As I have said before, Martin and I developed a toy theory of these a decade or two ago
which gave the right numbers (with zero extra background mass/energy) but has not developed further than a a few pages in our "appendix" due to lack of time or energy due to the demands of our day jobs.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">
<br class="">
At the end of the day, replacing one universal constant with another, related one is zero net progress. In Martin and my 1997 paper we calculated the charge in terms of Planck's constant (or vice versa). This is one fundamental constant less. The basic idea
was that the oscillating electric field of the photon became uni-directional due to the folding of the photon path into a double-loop.<br class="">
<br class="">
The hope with the new theory, which incorporates the experimentally observed properties of the four-dimensions of space and time from the outset, is that one can use it to calculate BOTH from first principles. I have tried this within the framework of an emission/absorption
model in the new classical field theory - and obtained an answer - but it is currently a couple orders of magnitude out. This is one of the areas I hope to get some help from with within the group - especially those with specialist knowledge of Atomic physics
- which is where I think the answer lies. Martin and I are anyway onto this - and he is already brushing up on his understanding of Atomic physics (amongst one or two other things!) to help to try to get a handle on this.<br class="">
<br class="">
Just for the record, our toy model calculated big G in terms of 1/(4pi epsilon zero) ... thus eliminating (in principle) yet another natural constant altogether: one of the essential assumptions in deriving this was precisely that there was zero net energy
in the vacuum fluctuations. As is observed.<br class="">
<br class="">
Regards, John W.</span><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"></span></div>
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<b class=""><span class="" style="font-size:10pt; font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif" lang="EN-GB">From:</span></b><span class="" style="font-size:10pt; font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif" lang="EN-GB"><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>General [<a href="mailto:general-bounces+john.williamson=glasgow.ac.uk@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" class="" style="color:rgb(149,79,114); text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">general-bounces+john.williamson=glasgow.ac.uk@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>]
on behalf of John Macken [<a href="mailto:john@macken.com" class="" style="color:rgb(149,79,114); text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">john@macken.com</a>]<br class="">
<b class="">Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Tuesday, June 16, 2015 11:56 PM<br class="">
<b class="">To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Nature of Light and Particles<br class="">
<b class="">Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>[General] Electrical Charge and Photons</span><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"></span></p>
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<span class="" style="font-size:12pt; font-family:'Times New Roman',serif" lang="EN-GB">Hello John W and Everyone,</span><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"></span></div>
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<span class="" style="font-size:12pt; font-family:'Times New Roman',serif" lang="EN-GB">In looking over one of the papers sent by John W. I was struck by the following sentences:</span><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"></span></div>
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<span class="" style="font-size:14pt; font-family:'Times New Roman',serif; color:rgb(192,0,0)" lang="EN-GB">This comes to one of the central, outstanding mysteries of physics. What is the underlying nature of quantized charge?</span><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"></span></div>
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<span class="" style="font-size:12pt; font-family:'Times New Roman',serif" lang="EN-GB"> </span><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"></span></p>
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<span class="" style="font-size:12pt; font-family:'Times New Roman',serif" lang="EN-GB">It has occurred to me that I can make a contribution to answering this question. Attached is several pages from chapter 9 of the revised version of my book. In this I
propose a “charge conversion constant” and show the implications of this towards explaining the properties of a photon.</span><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"></span></div>
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<span class="" style="font-size:12pt; font-family:'Times New Roman',serif" lang="EN-GB">I would appreciate hearing if anyone can find a single case where using the charge conversion constant gives an unreasonable answer. Also, the paper implies that the spacetime
field is the new aether. Can you find any reasons why this is not correct?</span><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"></span></div>
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<span class="" style="font-size:12pt; font-family:'Times New Roman',serif" lang="EN-GB"> </span><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"></span></p>
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<span class="" style="font-size:12pt; font-family:'Times New Roman',serif" lang="EN-GB">John </span><span class="" style="" lang="EN-GB"></span></div>
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