<html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:x="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:excel" xmlns:m="http://schemas.microsoft.com/office/2004/12/omml" xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"><head><meta http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=us-ascii"><meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 15 (filtered medium)"><!--[if !mso]><style>v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
.shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);}
</style><![endif]--><style><!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
{font-family:"Cambria Math";
panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Calibri;
panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:Tahoma;
panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}
@font-face
{font-family:"Helvetica Neue";}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;}
a:link, span.MsoHyperlink
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:blue;
text-decoration:underline;}
a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed
{mso-style-priority:99;
color:purple;
text-decoration:underline;}
p
{mso-style-priority:99;
margin:0in;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;}
span.EmailStyle18
{mso-style-type:personal-reply;
color:black;}
.MsoChpDefault
{mso-style-type:export-only;
font-size:10.0pt;}
@page WordSection1
{size:8.5in 11.0in;
margin:1.0in 1.0in 1.0in 1.0in;}
div.WordSection1
{page:WordSection1;}
--></style><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapedefaults v:ext="edit" spidmax="1026" />
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>
<o:shapelayout v:ext="edit">
<o:idmap v:ext="edit" data="1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>Hi John<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>Very well said!!!<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>May I cite you regarding this statement?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black'>There is a disease which I do not fully understand which seems to have infected nearly every physicist living and most for about the last hundred years. That is the desire to "quantise" everything from the beginning. It seems to me that, if you do that, you lose the possibility of finding out why things are quantised all. You are already lost. Ok it is kind of nice to put in something that you observe experimentally as an axiom, I suppose. Poor choice if you want to understand the origins of quantisation though.<br><br></span><span style='color:black'>Chip<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> General [mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>John Williamson<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, June 23, 2015 1:33 PM<br><b>To:</b> David Mathes; Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion<br><b>Cc:</b> Nick Bailey; Anthony Booth; Manohar .; Ariane Mandray<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [General] Axes plots<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black'>Could not agree more. <br><br>There is far far more unknown than known for all of us collectively. Further, any of our competences is dwarfed by those of all of us.<br><br>I see it now. Seuss was right all along (as always) and we need to go onto that new alphabet!<br><br>Gonna use it in the new paper ... watch this space ...<br><br>Cheers,<br><br>John.<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><span style='color:black'><hr size=2 width="100%" align=center></span></div><div id=divRpF886748><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black'> David Mathes [davidmathes8@yahoo.com]<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, June 23, 2015 4:16 PM<br><b>To:</b> John Williamson; Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion<br><b>Cc:</b> Nick Bailey; Anthony Booth; Manohar .; Ariane Mandray<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [General] Axes plots</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1435068835254_10921"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black'>John,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1435068835254_10921"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1435068835254_10921"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#252525'>"It's high time you were shown</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1435068835254_10921"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#252525'>That you really don't know</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1435068835254_10921"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#252525'>All there is to be known."</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1435068835254_10921"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1435068835254_10921"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#252525'>"In the places I go there are things that I see</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1435068835254_10921"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#252525'>That I never could spell if I stopped with the Z.</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1435068835254_10921"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#252525'>I'm telling you this 'cause you're one of my friends.</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1435068835254_10921"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:#252525'>My alphabet starts where your alphabet ends!"</span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1435068835254_10921"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1435068835254_10921"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black'>From Seuss, T.G. "On Beyond Zebra" 1955 <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1435068835254_10921"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1435068835254_10921"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black'>David<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1435068835254_10921"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1435068835254_10921"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1435068835254_10921"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1435068835254_10921"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1435068835254_10921"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1435068835254_11128"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #1010FF 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:3.75pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt' id="yui_3_16_0_1_1435068835254_11196"><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1435068835254_11202"><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1435068835254_11201"><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1435068835254_11200"><div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center;background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black'><hr size=1 width="100%" align=center></span></div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'> John Williamson <<a href="mailto:John.Williamson@glasgow.ac.uk">John.Williamson@glasgow.ac.uk</a>><br><b id="yui_3_16_0_1_1435068835254_11198">To:</b> Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion <<a href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org">general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>> <br><b>Cc:</b> Nick Bailey <<a href="mailto:nick@bailey-family.org.uk">nick@bailey-family.org.uk</a>>; Anthony Booth <<a href="mailto:abooth@ieee.org">abooth@ieee.org</a>>; Manohar . <<a href="mailto:manohar_berlin@hotmail.com">manohar_berlin@hotmail.com</a>>; Ariane Mandray <<a href="mailto:ariane.mandray@wanadoo.fr">ariane.mandray@wanadoo.fr</a>>; David Mathes <<a href="mailto:davidmathes8@yahoo.com">davidmathes8@yahoo.com</a>> <br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, June 23, 2015 3:50 AM<br><b>Subject:</b> RE: [General] Axes plots</span><span style='font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1435068835254_11825"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div id=yiv2434825531><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1435068835254_11855"><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1435068835254_11854"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black'>Dear David and Andrew,<br><br>There is a disease which I do not fully understand which seems to have infected nearly every physicist living and most for about the last hundred years. That is the desire to "quantise" everything from the beginning. It seems to me that, if you do that, you lose the possibility of finding out why things are quantised all. You are already lost. Ok it is kind of nice to put in something that you observe experimentally as an axiom, I suppose. Poor choice if you want to understand the origins of quantisation though.<br><br>Andrew, then, raises an important point. Why not a continuum indeed? I think the proper answer lies in the relationship between things - not in the things themselves. Things inter-act. Charge is, at root, (at least an invitation to) an inter-action.<br><br>Imagine a bunch of such inter-actors in a (universe sized) box. They do what they do. They inter-act. Now imagine some of them are bigger, faster, better inter-actors. It turns out that the universal law that big is small and small is large makes these the little guys. Small, loud and shrill. They throw out their stuff to all and sundry - losing energy (and hence getting bigger) in the process. The stuff they throw out is more likely to find the (bigger) quiet ones - hence shrinking them. Meanwhile (being small) they do not get a lot of stuff back. In time, if you have enough inter-actors then all tend to the same size and potency. Apparent uniformity (quantisation) is then just a result of thermodynamic exchange.<br><br>Discuss!<br><br>Regards, John W.<br><br>P.S. Spin is different!<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div id=yiv2434825531yqt21942><div><div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center;background:white'><span style='color:black'><hr size=2 width="100%" align=center></span></div><div id=yiv2434825531divRpF847645><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black'> General [general-bounces+john.williamson=glasgow.ac.uk@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org] on behalf of Andrew Meulenberg [mules333@gmail.com]<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, June 23, 2015 11:28 AM<br><b>To:</b> Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion<br><b>Cc:</b> Nick Bailey; Anthony Booth; Manohar .; Ariane Mandray; David Mathes<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [General] Axes plots</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='color:black'>Dear John W. and all,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='color:black'>If you start with a circularly-polarized photon, give it one full twist per wavelength (to 'unwind' it), and then close it at any point, could you not create the out-going <b>E</b>-field that we attribute to the electron or positron? However, since there is no reason to join the twisted photon only at integer wavelengths, then the electron would not have fixed properties. The only thing fixed would be the amount of twist per wavelength. What causes the photon twist in any of the models and, if the above model is correct, why don't we have particles with a continuum of charge (and spin?) values?<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:black'>Andrew<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='color:black'>__________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:black'>On Tue, Jun 23, 2015 at 12:19 AM, John Williamson <<a href="mailto:John.Williamson@glasgow.ac.uk" target="_blank">John.Williamson@glasgow.ac.uk</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:black'>Here are some using a set of axes, as in the POS paper circulated earlier<br><br>Torfieldrock just shows three views of a positron. <br><br>Torfieldsinglemin0.4 is just a simple double loop. Not too busy.<br><br>Trockrevert is similar to the first, but with a glass torus.<br><br>Cheers, John.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='color:black'><br>_______________________________________________<br>If you no longer wish to receive communication from the Nature of Light and Particles General Discussion List at <a href="mailto:mules333@gmail.com" target="_blank">mules333@gmail.com</a><br><a href="<a href="http://lists.natureoflightandparticles.org/options.cgi/general-natureoflightandparticles.org/mules333%40gmail.com?unsub=1&unsubconfirm=1" target="_blank">http://lists.natureoflightandparticles.org/options.cgi/general-natureoflightandparticles.org/mules333%40gmail.com?unsub=1&unsubconfirm=1</a>"><br>Click here to unsubscribe<br></a><o:p></o:p></span></p></blockquote></div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div></div></body></html>