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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Times;mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";mso-bidi-font-family:
"Times New Roman";mso-ansi-language:EN-GB;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">David,<br>
<br>
You and the group have helped me to a very important conclusion about something of which I was, indeed, not aware at all: there is no proper agreement about what some things, even mass and energy, really mean at all. I think Seuss was indeed right and the only
place to start is right back at the beginning with fresh new, precisely defined concepts.<br>
<br>
It always astonishes and humbles how ignorant one remains huh?<br>
<br>
Thanks, as always, for the insight.<br>
<br>
Unhindered as I am by any form of understanding or knowledge I will nevertheless try. Could always be lucky and get something right!<br>
<br>
Going blue as usual ...</span></p>
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</span></div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Tahoma;mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";color:black;
mso-ansi-language:EN-GB;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";
color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-GB;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">
David Mathes [davidmathes8@yahoo.com]<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, June 23, 2015 4:41 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> John Williamson; Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Nick Bailey; Ariane Mandray; Manohar .; Kyran Williamson<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [General] Electrical Charge and Photons</span><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman";mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";
color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-GB;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;background:
white">
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";mso-fareast-font-family:
"Times New Roman";mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";color:black;
mso-ansi-language:EN-GB;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">John</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;background:
white">
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";mso-fareast-font-family:
"Times New Roman";mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";color:black;
mso-ansi-language:EN-GB;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;background:
white">
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";mso-fareast-font-family:
"Times New Roman";mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";color:black;
mso-ansi-language:EN-GB;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">I'll agree with most of the responses and pick one
that needs more thinking.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;background:
white">
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";mso-fareast-font-family:
"Times New Roman";mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";color:black;
mso-ansi-language:EN-GB;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;background:
white">
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";mso-fareast-font-family:
"Times New Roman";mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";color:black;
mso-ansi-language:EN-GB;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Almost every time I hear of a particle or matter, there
appears to be mass and charge involved as if they are closely coupled. <br>
<br>
</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";mso-fareast-font-family:
"Times New Roman";mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";color:blue;mso-ansi-language:
EN-GB;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Yes, I think they are. More importantly- I have
already (and will do better) argued that it is a rest mass- not charged itself but interacting with a field that leads to a confinement force (replacing the central coulomb force in atoms), which then confines light into electrons and positrons. It is the
nature of this confinement (into a double fermionic loop) that gives the electron its ability to inter-act and hence its (apparently) quantised charge. Further it is likely- stelling - that fermionic behaviour and charge are related (notwithstanding such
things as gauge vector bosons).</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Helvetica Neue";mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";
mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-GB;
mso-fareast-language:EN-US"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;background:
white">
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";mso-fareast-font-family:
"Times New Roman";mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";color:black;
mso-ansi-language:EN-GB;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;background:
white">
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";mso-fareast-font-family:
"Times New Roman";mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";color:black;
mso-ansi-language:EN-GB;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Yet, inside the photon though, there is an electric
field which is usually found with charge. However, there is no detectable or even discernible mass.
<br>
</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;background:
white">
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";mso-fareast-font-family:
"Times New Roman";mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";color:black;
mso-ansi-language:EN-GB;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><br>
</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;background:
white">
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";mso-fareast-font-family:
"Times New Roman";mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";color:black;
mso-ansi-language:EN-GB;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><br>
</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";mso-fareast-font-family:
"Times New Roman";mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";color:blue;mso-ansi-language:
EN-GB;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Not so - this is a misunderstanding and imprecision,
for me, about what "mass" is. See Martin's "light is heavy". The word "mass" is simply not precise enough. It is easy to detect photon momentum and this is proportional (except for Phat photons) to the frequency. This discussion has been had before and I will
not repeat it. Partly because I know exactly what you really mean and you are right!</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;background:
white">
<br>
</p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;background:
white">
<font color="0000FF"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Helvetica Neue";">Also - as you pointed out with that raft of references, you cannot put your finger on the charge in an individual electron - it gets extended over microns! Experimentally. Now
how does it do that?</span><br>
<span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Helvetica Neue";"></span><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Helvetica Neue";"></span></font></p>
<font color="0000FF"></font>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;background:
white">
<font color="0000FF"><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: "Helvetica Neue";"> </span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;background:
white">
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";mso-fareast-font-family:
"Times New Roman";mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";color:black;
mso-ansi-language:EN-GB;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">We could look at the neutrino and gluon families as
well. Research suggests these can morph and perform some color change. The particles are not static. In the case of the gluon, there is no mass, but in the case of the neutrino, data suggests there is mass.<br>
<br>
<font color="0000FF">Indeed there are many theories about this. There is, as you have suggested a "colour charge". Also quarks, as I said before have not been measured to be fractionally charged. I think, however that there is a lot of bullshit in the literature
and you must be very careful. Remember that neither quarks nor gluons have been isolated. Anything along these lines is speculation based on no experimental evidence. Not proper science then (in my view).Do not get distracted from the fruitful path into a
world which only exists in spec<font color="0000FF">ulations. <font color="0000FF">
As soon as you talk about gluons you are inside the QCD box where nothing can be calculated, let alone understood<font color="0000FF">. Remember the theory is non-perturbative. Just forget about it! Let others waste their time fruitlessl<font color="0000FF">y<font color="0000FF">
if the<font color="0000FF">y so wish.</font></font></font></font></font></font><br>
</font></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;background:
white">
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";mso-fareast-font-family:
"Times New Roman";mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";color:black;
mso-ansi-language:EN-GB;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;background:
white">
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";mso-fareast-font-family:
"Times New Roman";mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";color:black;
mso-ansi-language:EN-GB;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">So perhaps there is in a massless-particle, and quantum
mass is inadequate to define mass one the scale of a photon, gluon or neutrino. We just cannot measure the mass of a photon.<br>
</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";mso-fareast-font-family:
"Times New Roman";mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";color:blue;mso-ansi-language:
EN-GB;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><br>
Yes we can, and we do - as I said before. The first thing you measure on any inelastic charge-charge scattering event at CERN is exactly the 4-momentum transfer of the exchange photon. This has, as I said before, an invariant (rest) mass associated with it
that can be very large - and either positive or negative. The key here is understanding division properly. Light-speed is not just a number - it is a symmetry point where certain quantities go to zero (in particular the rest-mass which is what we are really
talking about here). This means that when you divide by that you will get an infinity. Now our differential equations are powered by divisions and projections (we call them differentials). This needs to be properly taken on board. This is the thing that, properly,
distinguishes what is happening with the way energy wraps into space and time. You need to get this - but it is not easy and there are (as far as I know) no references yet - until Martin and I get our act together on this one. I'm happy to give a (private)
talk about this to any who are interested though outside the formal talks in SD.</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";mso-fareast-font-family:
"Times New Roman";mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";color:black;
mso-ansi-language:EN-GB;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;background:
white">
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";mso-fareast-font-family:
"Times New Roman";mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";color:black;
mso-ansi-language:EN-GB;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;background:
white">
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";mso-fareast-font-family:
"Times New Roman";mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";color:black;
mso-ansi-language:EN-GB;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">So IMHO Plancks constant is limiting the exploration
at very small volumes. While useful at times, Planck's units do not provide a closed set, and different answers can result. This ambiguity is yet another sign that something is different.<br>
</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";mso-fareast-font-family:
"Times New Roman";mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";color:blue;mso-ansi-language:
EN-GB;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><br>
I see what you mean but disagree in a way - I think Plank's constant is (eventually) part of the solution, not part of the problem. I think what limits exploration at very small values is just the experimental limit - not yet (or forseeably) any kind of Planck
limit. Also I do not believe progress in physics lies in going smaller – but in understanding the stable leptons and hadrons properly. We are already there: we have all the experimental information we need. Let’s not get distracted down dark alleys with no
information content!</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Helvetica Neue";mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";mso-bidi-font-family:
"Times New Roman";color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-GB;mso-fareast-language:
EN-US"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;background:
white">
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";mso-fareast-font-family:
"Times New Roman";mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";color:black;
mso-ansi-language:EN-GB;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;background:
white">
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";mso-fareast-font-family:
"Times New Roman";mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";color:black;
mso-ansi-language:EN-GB;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">The difficulty I have is that somewhere between the
state of condensed matter known as the electron and that of the photon, we have run the course of cGh physics. So we need to think beyond the cGh box at least to the extent that the values in common use, are dependent on assumptions that may no longer be valid
within the electron or photon.<br>
</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";mso-fareast-font-family:
"Times New Roman";mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";color:blue;mso-ansi-language:
EN-GB;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><br>
Too true! So lets get on with it! Lets sety up a new theory that works for both. Let us then at least try to calculate h from first principles, then we can talk about G! Lets save c for dessert!</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";mso-fareast-font-family:
"Times New Roman";mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";color:black;
mso-ansi-language:EN-GB;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><br>
<br>
One fruitful area is to change a common dependency, the impedance of spacetime. Puthoff views the negative vacuum required as fertile ground for "quantum vacuum engineering."
<br>
<br>
</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";mso-fareast-font-family:
"Times New Roman";mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";color:blue;mso-ansi-language:
EN-GB;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Yes – I have been following Puthoff and his work
for decades. You have talked before about </span><span style="font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";
mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-GB;
mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>“the
impedance of spacetime”</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";
mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";
color:blue;mso-ansi-language:EN-GB;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">, but I do not agree
that this is a central feature in either the photon or the electron. Just changing epsilon or mu does change the value of c , but not the scaling property we call relativity. As I said ... you need to get this. There may be (or may have been) indeed areas
of spacetime where c varied – and this is very interesting in itself – but it is simply not pertinent to the present discussion because the effects at the energy and mass density of material particles are just far far too weak. We need to do better if we are
to confine field into the electron.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>Quantum vacuum engineering will happen – when we understand the proper nature of light and matter and are able to engineer systems which exploit this.</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";mso-fareast-font-family:
"Times New Roman";mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";color:black;
mso-ansi-language:EN-GB;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;background:
white">
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";mso-fareast-font-family:
"Times New Roman";mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";color:black;
mso-ansi-language:EN-GB;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;background:
white">
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";mso-fareast-font-family:
"Times New Roman";mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";color:black;
mso-ansi-language:EN-GB;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Best</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;background:
white">
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";mso-fareast-font-family:
"Times New Roman";mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";color:black;
mso-ansi-language:EN-GB;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;background:
white">
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";mso-fareast-font-family:
"Times New Roman";mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";color:black;
mso-ansi-language:EN-GB;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">David<br>
<br>
</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";mso-fareast-font-family:
"Times New Roman";mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";color:blue;mso-ansi-language:
EN-GB;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Regards, John.</span><span style="font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";
mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";color:black;mso-ansi-language:EN-GB;
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<font id="yui_3_16_0_1_1435068835254_19361" face="Arial" size="2"><b><span style="font-weight:bold">From:</span></b> John Williamson <John.Williamson@glasgow.ac.uk><br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">To:</span></b> David Mathes <davidmathes8@yahoo.com>; Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion <general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org>
<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Cc:</span></b> Nick Bailey <nick@bailey-family.org.uk>; Ariane Mandray <ariane.mandray@wanadoo.fr>; Manohar . <manohar_berlin@hotmail.com>; Kyran Williamson <kyran_williamson@hotmail.com>
<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Sent:</span></b> Tuesday, June 23, 2015 4:06 AM<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Subject:</span></b> RE: [General] Electrical Charge and Photons<br>
</font></div>
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Questions should get answers ... <br>
<br>
Blue ...<br>
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<div id="yiv4208318684divRpF548201" style="direction:ltr"><font face="Tahoma" color="#000000" size="2"><b>From:</b> General [general-bounces+john.williamson=glasgow.ac.uk@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org] on behalf of David Mathes [davidmathes8@yahoo.com]<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, June 22, 2015 2:07 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [General] Electrical Charge and Photons<br>
</font><br>
</div>
<div></div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1435068835254_19445">
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1435068835254_19444" style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:HelveticaNeue,Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Lucida Grande,sans-serif; font-size:13px">
<div id="yiv4208318684yui_3_16_0_1_1434975553141_11852"><span>Rich and Chip</span></div>
<div id="yiv4208318684yui_3_16_0_1_1434975553141_11852"><span><br>
</span></div>
<div id="yiv4208318684yui_3_16_0_1_1434975553141_11852" dir="ltr"><span class="yiv4208318684" id="yiv4208318684yui_3_16_0_1_1434975553141_17172" style="font-size:16px">“how is charge produced in an electron?”</span><span><br>
</span></div>
<div id="yiv4208318684yui_3_16_0_1_1434975553141_11852" dir="ltr"><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:16px"><br>
</span></div>
<div id="yiv4208318684yui_3_16_0_1_1434975553141_11852" dir="ltr"><span class="yiv4208318684" id="yiv4208318684yui_3_16_0_1_1434975553141_15955" style="font-size:16px">Since we are asking questions....</span></div>
<div id="yiv4208318684yui_3_16_0_1_1434975553141_11852" dir="ltr"><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:16px"><br>
</span></div>
<div id="yiv4208318684yui_3_16_0_1_1434975553141_11852" dir="ltr"><span class="yiv4208318684" id="yiv4208318684yui_3_16_0_1_1434975553141_15956" style="font-size:16px">How is charge produced by a photon?<br>
<br>
<font id="yui_3_16_0_1_1435068835254_19448" color="0000FF">Photons have field, but any box in any frame in 3-space for a light speed (unconfined) photon will always have as much fi<font color="0000FF">el</font>d going in as coming out - hence zero charge.<br>
</font><br>
</span></div>
<div id="yiv4208318684yui_3_16_0_1_1434975553141_11852" dir="ltr"><span style="font-size:16px"><br>
</span></div>
<div id="yiv4208318684yui_3_16_0_1_1434975553141_11852" dir="ltr"><span id="yiv4208318684yui_3_16_0_1_1434975553141_17255" style="font-size:16px">How is charge produced within the photon?<br>
<br>
<font color="0000FF">Pardon?</font><br>
</span></div>
<div id="yiv4208318684yui_3_16_0_1_1434975553141_11852" dir="ltr"><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:16px"><br>
</span></div>
<div id="yiv4208318684yui_3_16_0_1_1434975553141_11852" dir="ltr"><font id="yiv4208318684yui_3_16_0_1_1434975553141_17333" size="3">How is quantum charge (1/3 e-) produced?<br>
<font color="0000FF"><br>
It is not. Experimentally.</font><br>
</font></div>
<div id="yiv4208318684yui_3_16_0_1_1434975553141_11852" dir="ltr"><font size="3"><br>
</font></div>
<div id="yiv4208318684yui_3_16_0_1_1434975553141_11852" dir="ltr"><font id="yiv4208318684yui_3_16_0_1_1434975553141_17570" size="3">Why is charge so closely couple with mass? Are these essentially one and the same effect?<br>
<font id="yui_3_16_0_1_1435068835254_19447" color="0000FF"><br>
Yes and no. All charges have mass. in some senses (in my new theory) mass gives rise to "charge". Mass is not charge though and charge is not mass.</font><br>
</font></div>
<div id="yiv4208318684yui_3_16_0_1_1434975553141_11852" dir="ltr"><font size="3"><br>
</font></div>
<div id="yiv4208318684yui_3_16_0_1_1434975553141_11852" dir="ltr"><span class="yiv4208318684" id="yiv4208318684yui_3_16_0_1_1434975553141_17173" style="font-size:16px">...Charge by a photon...</span></div>
<div id="yiv4208318684yui_3_16_0_1_1434975553141_11852" dir="ltr"><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:16px"><br>
</span></div>
<div id="yiv4208318684yui_3_16_0_1_1434975553141_11852" dir="ltr"><font id="yiv4208318684yui_3_16_0_1_1434975553141_12473" size="3">I've looked at this a number of different ways. Clearly, curved path of a photon plays a role, perhaps an off-geodesic path that
causes some sort of friction or emission. The difficulty is that the photon seems to be self-energizing which leads one to look at a curved photon interacting with spacetime. </font><span id="yiv4208318684yui_3_16_0_1_1434975553141_14877" style="font-size:medium">SRT
can be used on a photon normally where the velocity is constant. For any photon, especially a photon acceleration or deceleration, and in the parlance, off-geodesic movement by the photon, GRT is required.<br>
<br>
<font color="000080">More is required. This is our task.<br>
</font></span></div>
<font color="000080"></font>
<div id="yiv4208318684yui_3_16_0_1_1434975553141_11852" dir="ltr"><font size="3"><br>
</font></div>
<div id="yiv4208318684yui_3_16_0_1_1434975553141_11852" dir="ltr"><font id="yiv4208318684yui_3_16_0_1_1434975553141_13466" size="3">Is the interaction between photon in the longitudinal direction or the transverse direction? After all, the E vector is transverse
to the photon's travel. </font><span id="yiv4208318684yui_3_16_0_1_1434975553141_14876" style="font-size:medium">For one cycle of a wavelet, the photon's electric field averages zero. However, if we "stop" the photon and examine by reduction to a small part
of the wavelet, we find the electric vector, the magnetic vector, and the Poynting vector,
</span><b id="yiv4208318684yui_3_16_0_1_1434975553141_15957">S = E X B.<br>
</b></div>
<div id="yiv4208318684yui_3_16_0_1_1434975553141_11852" dir="ltr"><font size="3"><br>
</font></div>
<div id="yiv4208318684yui_3_16_0_1_1434975553141_11852" dir="ltr"><font id="yiv4208318684yui_3_16_0_1_1434975553141_14142" size="3"><font color="000080">Yes, so this cannot be the whole story ...<br>
</font><br>
So if we think for a moment of this photon in an electron, and focus just on the electric field, in a confined circular volume, we might think the electric field vector in the photon is sweeping out all other charged particles including quarks and weak particles.
Likewise, we might also conclude no other magnetic particles are permitted. </font><span id="yiv4208318684yui_3_16_0_1_1434975553141_14541" style="font-size:medium">And yet, an uncharged photon which has the E and B field vectors can traverse an electron as
if superposition is permitted between the two. </span></div>
<div id="yiv4208318684yui_3_16_0_1_1434975553141_11852" dir="ltr"><span style="font-size:medium"><br>
</span></div>
<div id="yiv4208318684yui_3_16_0_1_1434975553141_11852" dir="ltr"><font id="yiv4208318684yui_3_16_0_1_1434975553141_14807" class="yiv4208318684" style="" size="3">A photon traversing the electron might be considered as a photon-photon interaction. Are the
following equivalent?</font></div>
<div id="yiv4208318684yui_3_16_0_1_1434975553141_11852" dir="ltr"><font class="yiv4208318684" style="" size="3"><br>
</font></div>
<div id="yiv4208318684yui_3_16_0_1_1434975553141_11852" dir="ltr"><font class="yiv4208318684" id="yiv4208318684yui_3_16_0_1_1434975553141_15345" style="" size="3">photon-photon - Neutral particle vs neutral<br>
<font color="0000FF">No interaction directly (need a box diagram)</font><br>
</font></div>
<div id="yiv4208318684yui_3_16_0_1_1434975553141_11852" dir="ltr"><font class="yiv4208318684" id="yiv4208318684yui_3_16_0_1_1434975553141_15346" style="" size="3">photon-electron - neutral vs charged<br>
<font color="0000FF">This is QED</font><br>
</font></div>
<div id="yiv4208318684yui_3_16_0_1_1434975553141_11852" dir="ltr"><font class="yiv4208318684" id="yiv4208318684yui_3_16_0_1_1434975553141_15417" style="" size="3">electron-electron - Coulomb charge (repulsion)<br>
<font color="0000FF">Classical electromagnetism</font><br>
</font></div>
<div id="yiv4208318684yui_3_16_0_1_1434975553141_11852" dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div id="yiv4208318684yui_3_16_0_1_1434975553141_11852" dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div id="yiv4208318684yui_3_16_0_1_1434975553141_11852" dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div id="yiv4208318684yui_3_16_0_1_1434975553141_11852" dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div id="yiv4208318684yui_3_16_0_1_1434975553141_11852" dir="ltr"><font id="yiv4208318684yui_3_16_0_1_1434975553141_16779" size="3">Interactions: e-e-</font></div>
<div id="yiv4208318684yui_3_16_0_1_1434975553141_12072"><br>
</div>
<div id="yiv4208318684yui_3_16_0_1_1434975553141_12072" dir="ltr"><a rel="nofollow" href="https://www.itp.tu-berlin.de/fileadmin/a3233/upload/SS12/TheoFest2012/Kapitel/Chapter_3.pdf" id="yiv4208318684yui_3_16_0_1_1434975553141_16025" target="_blank">https://www.itp.tu-berlin.de/fileadmin/a3233/upload/SS12/TheoFest2012/Kapitel/Chapter_3.pdf</a><br>
</div>
<div id="yiv4208318684yui_3_16_0_1_1434975553141_12072" dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div id="yiv4208318684yui_3_16_0_1_1434975553141_12072" dir="ltr"><a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.phys.ufl.edu/~pjh/teaching/phz7427/7427notes/ch2.pdf" id="yiv4208318684yui_3_16_0_1_1434975553141_16104" target="_blank">http://www.phys.ufl.edu/~pjh/teaching/phz7427/7427notes/ch2.pdf</a><br>
</div>
<div id="yiv4208318684yui_3_16_0_1_1434975553141_12074"><br>
</div>
<div id="yiv4208318684yui_3_16_0_1_1434975553141_12075" dir="ltr"><a rel="nofollow" href="http://arxiv.org/abs/1412.0115" id="yiv4208318684yui_3_16_0_1_1434975553141_16186" target="_blank">[1412.0115] Landau level spectroscopy of electron-electron interactions
in graphene</a></div>
<div id="yiv4208318684yui_3_16_0_1_1434975553141_12075" dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div id="yiv4208318684yui_3_16_0_1_1434975553141_12075" dir="ltr"><a rel="nofollow" href="http://arxiv.org/abs/1012.3484" id="yiv4208318684yui_3_16_0_1_1434975553141_16342" target="_blank">[1012.3484] Electron-Electron Interactions in Graphene: Current Status
and Perspectives</a></div>
<div id="yiv4208318684yui_3_16_0_1_1434975553141_12075" dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div id="yiv4208318684yui_3_16_0_1_1434975553141_12075" dir="ltr"><a rel="nofollow" href="http://journals.jps.jp/doi/abs/10.1143/JPSJ.18.516" id="yiv4208318684yui_3_16_0_1_1434975553141_16459" target="_blank">The Effect of Electron-Electron Interaction on the
Nuclear Spin Relaxation in Metals - Journal of the Physical Society of Japan</a></div>
<div id="yiv4208318684yui_3_16_0_1_1434975553141_12075" dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div id="yiv4208318684yui_3_16_0_1_1434975553141_12075" dir="ltr"><a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0038109879909670" id="yiv4208318684yui_3_16_0_1_1434975553141_16582" target="_blank">Zero bias anomaly in tunnel resistance
and electron-electron interaction</a></div>
<div id="yiv4208318684yui_3_16_0_1_1434975553141_12075" dir="ltr"><font color="0000FF"><br>
</font></div>
<font color="0000FF"></font><font color="0000FF"></font>
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<font color="0000FF"></font>
<div class="yiv4208318684" id="yiv4208318684yui_3_16_0_1_1434975553141_17422" style="">
<font color="0000FF"></font>
<div class="yiv4208318684" id="yiv4208318684yui_3_16_0_1_1434975553141_17421" style="">
<font color="0000FF"></font>
<div dir="ltr" class="yiv4208318684" id="yiv4208318684yui_3_16_0_1_1434975553141_17420" style="">
<span class="yiv4208318684" id="yiv4208318684yui_3_16_0_1_1434975553141_17419" style="font-size:14.000000pt; font-family:'CMBX12'"><font color="0000FF">All very good stuff in my old field. Good on you guys!</font><br>
<br>
Shell structure and electron-electron interaction in self-assembled InAs quantum dots </span></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div id="yiv4208318684yui_3_16_0_1_1434975553141_12075" dir="ltr"><a rel="nofollow" href="http://arxiv.org/pdf/cond-mat/9609270.pdf" id="yiv4208318684yui_3_16_0_1_1434975553141_16696" target="_blank">http://arxiv.org/pdf/cond-mat/9609270.pdf</a></div>
<div id="yiv4208318684yui_3_16_0_1_1434975553141_12075" dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div id="yiv4208318684yui_3_16_0_1_1434975553141_12075" dir="ltr"><font color="0000FF">likewise!</font><br>
</div>
<div id="yiv4208318684yui_3_16_0_1_1434975553141_12075" dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div id="yiv4208318684yui_3_16_0_1_1434975553141_12075" dir="ltr">David</div>
<div id="yiv4208318684yui_3_16_0_1_1434975553141_12075" dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div id="yiv4208318684yui_3_16_0_1_1434975553141_12075" dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div id="yiv4208318684yui_3_16_0_1_1434975553141_12075" dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<blockquote id="yiv4208318684yui_3_16_0_1_1434975553141_11856" style="border-left:2px solid rgb(16,16,255); margin-left:5px; margin-top:5px; padding-left:5px">
<div id="yiv4208318684yui_3_16_0_1_1434975553141_11855" style="font-family:HelveticaNeue,Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Lucida Grande,sans-serif; font-size:13px">
<div id="yiv4208318684yui_3_16_0_1_1434975553141_11854" style="font-family:HelveticaNeue,Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Lucida Grande,sans-serif; font-size:16px">
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<hr id="yiv4208318684yui_3_16_0_1_1434975553141_11870" size="1">
<font id="yiv4208318684yui_3_16_0_1_1434975553141_11857" face="Arial" size="2"><b><span style="font-weight:bold">From:</span></b> Richard Gauthier <richgauthier@gmail.com><br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">To:</span></b> Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion <general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org>
<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Sent:</span></b> Monday, June 22, 2015 5:24 AM<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Subject:</span></b> Re: [General] Electrical Charge and Photons<br>
</font></div>
<div class="yiv4208318684y_msg_container" id="yiv4208318684yui_3_16_0_1_1434975553141_11858">
<br>
<div id="yiv4208318684">
<div id="yiv4208318684yui_3_16_0_1_1434975553141_11860">
<div class="yiv4208318684" id="yiv4208318684yui_3_16_0_1_1434975553141_11859">Chip,</div>
<div class="yiv4208318684" id="yiv4208318684yui_3_16_0_1_1434975553141_11861"> Yes, the question should be “how is charge produced in an electron?” Theories that declare that charge cannot travel at the speed of light may need to be reexamined. Hestenes'
zitter model of the electron has electric charge traveling in a helix at light-speed for example. Maybe its mathematical “center of charge” travels at less that the speed of light, but this could also be the case in a charged photon model which has a proposed
helical motion in a moving electron and this helical motion is at light speed.</div>
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<div id="yiv4208318684yui_3_16_0_1_1434975553141_13802">
<blockquote class="yiv4208318684" type="cite" id="yiv4208318684yui_3_16_0_1_1434975553141_13801">
<div class="yiv4208318684qtdSeparateBR"><br>
<br>
</div>
<div class="yiv4208318684yqt1266527354" id="yiv4208318684yqt87031">
<div class="yiv4208318684" id="yiv4208318684yui_3_16_0_1_1434975553141_13800">On Jun 22, 2015, at 4:42 AM, Chip Akins <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv4208318684" href="mailto:chipakins@gmail.com" id="yiv4208318684yui_3_16_0_1_1434975553141_13799" target="_blank">chipakins@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br class="yiv4208318684Apple-interchange-newline" clear="none">
<div class="yiv4208318684" id="yiv4208318684yui_3_16_0_1_1434975553141_13805">
<div class="yiv4208318684WordSection1" id="yiv4208318684yui_3_16_0_1_1434975553141_13804" style="font-family:Helvetica; font-size:12px; font-style:normal; font-variant:normal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; line-height:normal; text-indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; word-spacing:0px">
<div class="yiv4208318684" id="yiv4208318684yui_3_16_0_1_1434975553141_13803" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:12pt; font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">
<span class="yiv4208318684" style="">Hi Richard</span></div>
<div class="yiv4208318684" id="yiv4208318684yui_3_16_0_1_1434975553141_16221" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:12pt; font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">
<span class="yiv4208318684" style=""> </span></div>
<div class="yiv4208318684" id="yiv4208318684yui_3_16_0_1_1434975553141_16220" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:12pt; font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">
<span class="yiv4208318684" id="yiv4208318684yui_3_16_0_1_1434975553141_16219" style="">I defense of your approach, lets briefly and simply discuss the photon, “charged photon” and electron.</span></div>
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<span class="yiv4208318684" style=""> </span></div>
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<span class="yiv4208318684" id="yiv4208318684yui_3_16_0_1_1434975553141_17410" style="">Your model suggests that an electron is a charged photon. The electron has charge. All the energy in the electron is in the constituent photon. Upon annihilation the photon
is released (as a normal uncharged photon). So that implies that the photon was in the electron and it had charge.</span></div>
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<span class="yiv4208318684" style=""> </span></div>
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<span class="yiv4208318684" id="yiv4208318684yui_3_16_0_1_1434975553141_17414" style="">Our normal definition of a photon is that it is light speed and has no charge, however when confined, many of us have suggested that the topology of confinement can cause
charge. When confined it would still be traveling at light speed, so that has not changed, the only thing that has changed is that something has caused confinement and charge. Confinement and charge seem to be linked in that perhaps charge can only result
from confinement. But when confined (and charged) we normally call it something else. It the photon still inside the electron? It seems it is. Because we can release it.</span></div>
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<span class="yiv4208318684" style=""> </span></div>
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<span class="yiv4208318684" id="yiv4208318684yui_3_16_0_1_1434975553141_17416" style="">So my opinion is that your title, and your paper, are another valuable illustrative view, and that it helps us to comprehend some of the subtleties of the electron.</span></div>
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<span class="yiv4208318684" style="">While it may be perceived as a stretch to assign charge to a photon, because it does not seem that it would be possible for a free linearly traveling photon to exhibit charge… your electron model, as many of our models,
contains a confined photon, all the energy of the electron is in the photon, the particle made of the confined photon has charge, so under those circumstances I don’t see why you can’t call it a charged photon to illustrate the point.</span></div>
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<span class="yiv4208318684" style="">Chip</span></div>
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<b class="yiv4208318684"><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span class="yiv4208318684Apple-converted-space"> </span>General
[<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv4208318684" href="mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" style="color:purple; text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>]<span class="yiv4208318684Apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="yiv4208318684">On
Behalf Of<span class="yiv4208318684Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Richard Gauthier<br class="yiv4208318684" clear="none">
<b class="yiv4208318684">Sent:</b><span class="yiv4208318684Apple-converted-space"> </span>Sunday, June 21, 2015 9:33 AM<br class="yiv4208318684" clear="none">
<b class="yiv4208318684">To:</b><span class="yiv4208318684Apple-converted-space"> </span>Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion<br class="yiv4208318684" clear="none">
<b class="yiv4208318684">Subject:</b><span class="yiv4208318684Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [General] Electrical Charge and Photons</span></div>
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Hello John W and others,</div>
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I recently posed a question on ResearchGate on my charged photon model — “Can an electron be a charged photon with spin 1/2 hbar?", and am getting some good feedback. You are all welcome to join the discussion there and share your views, criticisms and comments.
Here’s my reply to one of the questions:</div>
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Hello Stam, Thank your for your comments and criticisms. I am not saying that a spin 1 uncharged photon with no rest mass is the same as a spin 1/2 charged electron with rest mass. Clearly these are two different particles. What I am proposing is that a hypothetical
particle (a charged photon) may have the essential properties of an ordinary photon -- its speed of light c, its momentum p=h/lambda and its energy E=hf relationships -- and yet have a different spin, charge and rest mass than the ordinary photon. We may
differ on what we think are the essential properties of a photon, but I think that the properties of a photon -- the photon's charge, spin and rest mass --which change in a particle transformation such as electron-positron pair production when a photon interacts
with an atomic nucleus (to conserve linear momentum) may be less essential to the fundamental nature of the photon than the properties of the proposed hypothetical photon that may remain--c, p=h/lambda and E=hf--to form the electron with its charge, spin and
rest mass. So I am proposing that it may be useful to think of photons as coming in two varieties that both have the speed of light, energy and momentum properties mentioned above but have different charge, spin and rest mass. In pair production, one particle--the
photon-- is transformed into two different particles. The spin 1 photon converts to 2 spin 1/2 particles, the uncharged photon is converted into two oppositely charged particles, and the no-rest-mass photon is converted into 2 particles with rest mass, when
the the incoming photon has sufficient energy. But what if the essential properties of the photon -- c, E=hf, and p=h/lambda -- remain unobserved in the electron (yet generate the electron's de Broglie wavelength and the electron's quantum wave functions),
while the observed properties spin, charge and rest mass of the charged photon--now called an electron -- are different that that of the ordinary photon. Are you saying that this view is not physically meaningful or contradicts any current physical theory? <br class="yiv4208318684" clear="none">
<i class="yiv4208318684">Can an electron be a charged photon with spin 1/2 hbar? - ResearchGate</i>. Available from: <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv4208318684" href="https://www.researchgate.net/post/Can_an_electron_be_a_charged_photon_with_spin_1_2_hbar" style="color:purple; text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">https://www.researchgate.net/post/Can_an_electron_be_a_charged_photon_with_spin_1_2_hbar</a> [accessed
Jun 21, 2015].</div>
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On Jun 19, 2015, at 7:53 PM, John Williamson <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv4208318684" href="mailto:John.Williamson@glasgow.ac.uk" style="color:purple; text-decoration:underline" target="_blank">John.Williamson@glasgow.ac.uk</a>> wrote:</div>
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<span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:10pt; font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif">Dear John M,<br class="yiv4208318684" clear="none">
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Thank you for your reply. I think there is very much that is good in your work and your thinking, but I think you perhaps have started from the wrong place in feeling that you have to put in<span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"> </span></span>G,
c,<span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"> </span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-family:'Cambria Math',serif">ħ</span><span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"> </span>and ε<sub class="yiv4208318684"><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:10pt">o</span></sub><span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"> </span>from
the beginning (let alone the fine structure constant!).<span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="yiv4208318684" clear="none">
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These are constants you should aspire to get out of a fundamental theory.<br class="yiv4208318684" clear="none">
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</span>The starting point of mega- giga-tera-peta-exa astronomical energy densities (I don't think even that was enough zeroes!) is anyway, for most, not the fashionable, central point of physics as it stands, but rather the crazy edge where current physics
is thought to, as your Wikipedia quote suggests, break down. Now this would not matter to me, if it was not for the fact that this, in our joint discussion, may mistakenly be taken by others in the outside world as a necessary part of our, and hence my, new
theory of light and matter. Like it or not, we will get seen as a group. It is the natural error you made yourself when you joined this group and confused what was essentially Richards position, of being representive of my, Martin's Andrew's, Viv's and Chandra's
positions. Just not so! I am already being dismissed by current physics as crazy as it is without associating myself with more things though to be beyond-the-pale.<br class="yiv4208318684" clear="none">
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Coming back to the physics: your analogies of light and material particles, as vibrations of the underlying medium of space and time, stand without starting from some fixed properties. For me this has the added advantage of being far closer to my position -
that much of what we perceive as reality stems from the underlying nature of space and time. Here, we agree. The point is -why give yourself a fixed limit based on a handful of physical constants set as your starting point (and thus further immutable and incalculable).
Far better to calculate G in terms of electromagnetism rather than put it in a-priori (which is what Martin and my toy model does - toy or not). As I said before, space and time have to be stiff and strong, not massive and energetic, and it is actually these
properties that you use to derive your results. Change your limit and the strain in the oscillations goes from the far sub-quantum to something closer to the actual kind of vibration observed in particles. Why not just take it all the way to that which you
observe? Forget about there being a "maximum possible" for any aspect of space-time. That is only of any relevance in extrapolating present theories grounded in experiment in the linear regime, far to the point where they become non-linear.<span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"> </span>Why
start by limiting yourself, especially to something you do not actually know and in a regime completely in-accessible to human experiment!<br class="yiv4208318684" clear="none">
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Also, while on the theme of Gravitation, I want to take back much of what I said in the last paragraph in my previous email. It was partly due to me panicking a bit on not making enough progress with moving towards some looming deadlines (mostly from work,
though July 15th is also getting rapidly closer), and feeling the need to put in precious time to ground a discussion I felt was getting out of hand and absorbing too much of all our energies uneccesarily (as GenRel workes just fine in explaining it as it
is). My apologies. There should be no limit on any of our thinking. In fact, perhaps there should be a follow-up workshop on space, time and gravitation. This is something for discussion in the cafe's in San Diego. My only decent point was that it was not,
strictly, the theme of this upcoming conference.<br class="yiv4208318684" clear="none">
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Regards, John W.<span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"> </span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:10pt; font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif"></span></div>
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<b class="yiv4208318684"><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:10pt; font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:10pt; font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif"> </span></span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:10pt; font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif">General
[<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv4208318684" href="mailto:general-bounces+john.williamson=glasgow.ac.uk@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" style="color:purple; text-decoration:underline" target="_blank"><span class="yiv4208318684" style="color:rgb(149,79,114)">general-bounces+john.williamson=glasgow.ac.uk@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</span></a>]
on behalf of John Macken [<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv4208318684" href="mailto:john@macken.com" style="color:purple; text-decoration:underline" target="_blank"><span class="yiv4208318684" style="color:rgb(149,79,114)">john@macken.com</span></a>]<br class="yiv4208318684" clear="none">
<b class="yiv4208318684">Sent:</b><span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"> </span>Friday, June 19, 2015 11:33 PM<br class="yiv4208318684" clear="none">
<b class="yiv4208318684">To:</b><span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"> </span>'Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion'<br class="yiv4208318684" clear="none">
<b class="yiv4208318684">Subject:</b><span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [General] Electrical Charge and Photons</span></div>
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John W.<span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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Thank you for your thoughtful views and summary of past discussions. I have one small point of clarification of my position. First, the term “Planck scale” has a specific meaning which does not fit with my work on particles and forces. Here is what Wikipedia
has to say about “Planck scale”<span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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<span class="yiv4208318684" style="color:rgb(37,37,37); background-color:white">“In </span><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv4208318684" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Particle_physics" title="Particle physics" style="color:purple; text-decoration:underline" target="_blank"><span class="yiv4208318684" style="color:rgb(11,0,128); background-color:white; text-decoration:none">particle
physics</span></a><span class="yiv4208318684" style="color:rgb(37,37,37); background-color:white"> and </span><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv4208318684" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physical_cosmology" title="Physical cosmology" style="color:purple; text-decoration:underline" target="_blank"><span class="yiv4208318684" style="color:rgb(11,0,128); background-color:white; text-decoration:none">physical
cosmology</span></a><span class="yiv4208318684" style="color:rgb(37,37,37); background-color:white">, the <b class="yiv4208318684">Planck scale</b> is an </span><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv4208318684" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_scale" title="Energy scale" style="color:purple; text-decoration:underline" target="_blank"><span class="yiv4208318684" style="color:rgb(11,0,128); background-color:white; text-decoration:none">energy
scale</span></a><span class="yiv4208318684" style="color:rgb(37,37,37); background-color:white"> around 1.22 × 10<sup class="yiv4208318684">19</sup> </span><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv4208318684" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GeV" title="GeV" style="color:purple; text-decoration:underline" target="_blank"><span class="yiv4208318684" style="color:rgb(11,0,128); background-color:white; text-decoration:none">GeV</span></a><span class="yiv4208318684" style="color:rgb(37,37,37); background-color:white"> (which
corresponds to the </span><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv4208318684" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass%E2%80%93energy_equivalence" title="Mass–energy equivalence" style="color:purple; text-decoration:underline" target="_blank"><span class="yiv4208318684" style="color:rgb(11,0,128); background-color:white; text-decoration:none">mass–energy
equivalence</span></a><span class="yiv4208318684" style="color:rgb(37,37,37); background-color:white"> of the </span><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv4208318684" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planck_mass" title="Planck mass" style="color:purple; text-decoration:underline" target="_blank"><span class="yiv4208318684" style="color:rgb(11,0,128); background-color:white; text-decoration:none">Planck
mass</span></a><span class="yiv4208318684" style="color:rgb(37,37,37); background-color:white">2.17645 × 10<sup class="yiv4208318684">−8</sup> kg) at which </span><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv4208318684" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_effects" title="Quantum effects" style="color:purple; text-decoration:underline" target="_blank"><span class="yiv4208318684" style="color:rgb(11,0,128); background-color:white; text-decoration:none">quantum
effects</span></a><span class="yiv4208318684" style="color:rgb(37,37,37); background-color:white"> of </span><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv4208318684" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravity" title="Gravity" style="color:purple; text-decoration:underline" target="_blank"><span class="yiv4208318684" style="color:rgb(11,0,128); background-color:white; text-decoration:none">gravity</span></a><span class="yiv4208318684" style="color:rgb(37,37,37); background-color:white"> become
strong. At this scale, present descriptions and theories of sub-atomic particle interactions in terms of </span><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv4208318684" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_field_theory" title="Quantum field theory" style="color:purple; text-decoration:underline" target="_blank"><span class="yiv4208318684" style="color:rgb(11,0,128); background-color:white; text-decoration:none">quantum
field theory</span></a><span class="yiv4208318684" style="color:rgb(37,37,37); background-color:white"> break down.”</span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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For example, my model of an electron is a Planck length and Planck time displacement of spacetime, rotating at the speed of light, but this is not the same as “Planck scale”. The displacement occurs over a radial distance equal to an electron’s reduced Compton
wavelength (about 3.86x10<sup class="yiv4208318684">-13</sup><span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"> </span>m). In order for this to be Planck scale (Planck energy) the same displacement would have to occur over a distance equal to Planck length. <span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"> </span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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The important point is that even though the displacement of spacetime is the same, the “strain amplitude” is the important measurement of wave amplitude. For example, an electron has strain amplitude of:<span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"> </span><i class="yiv4208318684">A<sub class="yiv4208318684">s</sub></i><span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"> </span>=<span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"> </span><i class="yiv4208318684"><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-family:'Cambria Math',serif">L<sub class="yiv4208318684">p</sub></span></i><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-family:'Cambria Math',serif">/<i class="yiv4208318684"><s class="yiv4208318684">λ</s></i><sub class="yiv4208318684">c</sub><span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"> </span>≈
4.18x10<sup class="yiv4208318684">-23</sup><span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"> </span>(a dimensionless number) while the strain amplitude of a hypothetical Planck mass would be<span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"> </span><i class="yiv4208318684">A<sub class="yiv4208318684">s</sub></i><span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"> </span>=<span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"> </span><i class="yiv4208318684">L<sub class="yiv4208318684">p</sub>/L<sub class="yiv4208318684">p</sub></i><span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"> </span>=
1 (the maximum possible strain amplitude). An electron’s reduced angular frequency divided by Planck frequency is also<span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"> </span><i class="yiv4208318684">ω</i><sub class="yiv4208318684">c</sub>/<i class="yiv4208318684">ω</i><sub class="yiv4208318684">p</sub><span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"> </span>≈
4.18x10<sup class="yiv4208318684">-23</sup>. In fact, this number occurs everywhere when describing properties of an electron. Even the previously discussed ratio of the forces produced between two electrons at arbitrary distance<span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"> </span><i class="yiv4208318684">r</i><span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"> </span> is:</span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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<span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-family:'Cambria Math',serif"> </span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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<i class="yiv4208318684"><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-family:'Cambria Math',serif">F<sub class="yiv4208318684">g</sub>/F<sub class="yiv4208318684">e</sub>α</span></i><sup class="yiv4208318684"><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-family:'Cambria Math',serif">-1</span></sup><span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-family:'Cambria Math',serif"> </span></span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-family:'Cambria Math',serif">=<span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"> </span><i class="yiv4208318684">A<sub class="yiv4208318684">s</sub></i><sup class="yiv4208318684">2</sup><span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"> </span>=
(4.18x10<sup class="yiv4208318684">-23</sup>)<sup class="yiv4208318684">2</sup> <span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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<span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-family:'Cambria Math',serif"> </span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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I admit that the proposed energy density of the vacuum can be classified as Planck scale, but that is undetectable energy that lacks angular momentum. It is not really the same as any type of observable energy that we might encounter. It merely is necessary
to give spacetime its properties of G, c,<span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"> </span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-family:'Cambria Math',serif">ħ</span><span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"> </span>and ε<sub class="yiv4208318684">o</sub>.
It is the background “quantum foam” that forms the characteristics of spacetime. Spacetime is not a fixed grid. Because of this activity, it is not possible to reference motion relative to spacetime. <span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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John M.<span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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<b class="yiv4208318684"><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> </span></span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">General
[<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv4208318684" href="mailto:general-bounces+john=macken.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" style="color:purple; text-decoration:underline" target="_blank"><span class="yiv4208318684" style="color:rgb(149,79,114)">mailto:general-bounces+john=macken.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</span></a>]<span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="yiv4208318684">On
Behalf Of<span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"> </span></b>John Williamson<br class="yiv4208318684" clear="none">
<b class="yiv4208318684">Sent:</b><span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"> </span>Friday, June 19, 2015 12:36 AM<br class="yiv4208318684" clear="none">
<b class="yiv4208318684">To:</b><span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"> </span>Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion<br class="yiv4208318684" clear="none">
<b class="yiv4208318684">Cc:</b><span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"> </span>Manohar .; Nick Bailey; Anthony Booth; Ariane Mandray<br class="yiv4208318684" clear="none">
<b class="yiv4208318684">Subject:</b><span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [General] Electrical Charge and Photons</span></div>
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<span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:10pt; font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif" lang="EN-GB">Dear people,<br class="yiv4208318684" clear="none">
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There is no issue. The speed of light has, as John M and Martin say, a definition. It is the rate of change of space with respect to time. Measured locally. Given this definition it is as John D points out, a tautology that the speed of light is constant as
measured in all inertial frames. With this definition it then makes no sense to say that something that is constant varies.<br class="yiv4208318684" clear="none">
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In accelerated or gravitational frames the situation is different - exactly as John M points out. Indeed, as John D says the speed of light may be viewed as varying with respect to space wrt any given observer. Equally, it may be viewed as a variation on the
rate of change of space with respect to some standard. These are reciprocal views of the same thing. You can say I want to keep my space constant and vary velocity (John D), or keep my velocity constant and vary space (John M and Martin). It is worth noting
though that describing particles as terms of vibrations of the elastic spacetime medium (John D and John M) is inconstistent with keeping space as a fixed grid!<span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="yiv4208318684" clear="none">
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Frankly I do not give a damn ( I have a preference for constant velocity and inconstant space - but then), I can see both (or all three!) at the same time. So what? Provided the effect is very small (say compared to the wavelength of light) it does not matter
which way you choose to look at it, both are entirely equivalent. General relativity, in general, is written from the John M-Martin perspective). As Martin says, it works, and it describes the situation perfectly. END of story.<br class="yiv4208318684" clear="none">
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Einstein did indeed worry about the limits - but Einstein worried about a lot of things. He was not one-shot one-idea Einstein. He played with ideas -looked at things from different angles. There is no definitive Einstein, and more than there is a definitive
Williamson, Macken, Duffield or van der Mark. Einstein, though I wish he was still here, is not. Smart though he was, he was not (just like the rest of us) always right. He cannot still argue for himself and we must not stand him up as an ultimate authority
on everything, but must argue from the merits of every standpoint.<br class="yiv4208318684" clear="none">
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Now, this is all a very interesting discussion, but gravitation is a very weak (for me derivative of EM) effect. It only really becomes of any pertinence at all in terms of electromagnetism, the photon or the confinement of the electron at ridiculously, experimentally
unattainable densities at the Planck scale. Now this is a very interesting discussion- but is distracting me and many of you from the theme of the upcoming conference. We are wasting time on details 20 orders of magnitude outside of where we need to focus
for the time being. It is, in my view, really for a different conference in a different context at a different time.<span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="yiv4208318684" clear="none">
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Regards, John W.</span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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<b class="yiv4208318684"><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:10pt; font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif" lang="EN-GB">From:</span></b><span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:10pt; font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif" lang="EN-GB"> </span></span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:10pt; font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif" lang="EN-GB">General
[<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv4208318684" href="mailto:general-bounces+john.williamson=glasgow.ac.uk@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" style="color:purple; text-decoration:underline" target="_blank"><span class="yiv4208318684" style="color:rgb(149,79,114)">general-bounces+john.williamson=glasgow.ac.uk@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</span></a>]
on behalf of John Duffield [<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv4208318684" href="mailto:johnduffield@btconnect.com" style="color:purple; text-decoration:underline" target="_blank"><span class="yiv4208318684" style="color:rgb(149,79,114)">johnduffield@btconnect.com</span></a>]<br class="yiv4208318684" clear="none">
<b class="yiv4208318684">Sent:</b><span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"> </span>Friday, June 19, 2015 8:05 AM<br class="yiv4208318684" clear="none">
<b class="yiv4208318684">To:</b><span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"> </span>'Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion'<br class="yiv4208318684" clear="none">
<b class="yiv4208318684">Subject:</b><span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [General] Electrical Charge and Photons</span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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<span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif" lang="EN-GB">Martin:</span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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<span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif" lang="EN-GB"> </span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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<span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif" lang="EN-GB">I’m not dismissing the use of inertial reference frames. I’m trying to get you to pay attention to what Einstein said:<span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"> </span><i class="yiv4208318684">light
curves because the speed of light varies with position.</i><span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"> </span> </span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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<span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif" lang="EN-GB">Please note I’m not proposing some idea I’ve dreamt up. I’m not some “my theory” guy. You aren’t disagreeing with me, you’re disagreeing with Einstein. I think this point is crucial
to avoid “geon” misunderstandings. So please explain why you think light curves in a gravitational field, and I’ll try to point out the issues with your explanation. The thing to appreciate is that there’s physicists out there who will teach you all about
general relativity, but when you read Einstein’s original material, you realise that they flatly contradicted Einstein whilst appealing to his authority.</span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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<span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif" lang="EN-GB"> </span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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<span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif" lang="EN-GB">Make sure you read this:<span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"> </span><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv4208318684" href="http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/physics/Relativity/SpeedOfLight/speed_of_light.html" style="color:purple; text-decoration:underline" target="_blank"><span class="yiv4208318684" style="color:rgb(149,79,114)">http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/physics/Relativity/SpeedOfLight/speed_of_light.html</span></a></span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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<span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif" lang="EN-GB"> </span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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<span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif" lang="EN-GB">This is the previous version:<span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"> </span><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv4208318684" href="http://www.desy.de/user/projects/Physics/Relativity/SpeedOfLight/speed_of_light.html" style="color:purple; text-decoration:underline" target="_blank"><span class="yiv4208318684" style="color:rgb(149,79,114)">http://www.desy.de/user/projects/Physics/Relativity/SpeedOfLight/speed_of_light.html</span></a></span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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<span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif" lang="EN-GB"> </span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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<span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif" lang="EN-GB">PhysicsFAQ editor Don Koks rewrote this article after I pointed out that it contradicted itself. It previously said this:<span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" lang="EN-GB">This
[VSL] interpretation is perfectly valid and makes good physical sense, but a more modern interpretation is that the speed of light is constant in general relativity.</span><span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif" lang="EN-GB"> </span></span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif" lang="EN-GB"> Followed
by this:<span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" lang="EN-GB">Finally, we come to the conclusion that the speed of light is not only observed to be constant;
in the light of well tested theories of physics, it does not even make any sense to say that it varies.</span><span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif" lang="EN-GB"> </span></span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif" lang="EN-GB"> </span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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<span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif" lang="EN-GB"> </span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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<span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif" lang="EN-GB">The speed of light varies in the room you’re in. If it didn’t, your pencil wouldn’t fall down.</span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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<span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif" lang="EN-GB"> </span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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<span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif" lang="EN-GB">Regards</span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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<span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-family:Arial,sans-serif" lang="EN-GB">John D</span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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<b class="yiv4208318684"><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> </span></span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">General
[<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv4208318684" href="mailto:general-bounces+johnduffield=btconnect.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" style="color:purple; text-decoration:underline" target="_blank"><span class="yiv4208318684" style="color:rgb(149,79,114)">mailto:general-bounces+johnduffield=btconnect.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</span></a>]<span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="yiv4208318684">On
Behalf Of<span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Mark, Martin van der<br class="yiv4208318684" clear="none">
<b class="yiv4208318684">Sent:</b><span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"> </span>18 June 2015 22:30<br class="yiv4208318684" clear="none">
<b class="yiv4208318684">To:</b><span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"> </span>Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion<br class="yiv4208318684" clear="none">
<b class="yiv4208318684">Subject:</b><span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [General] Electrical Charge and Photons</span></div>
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<span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif; color:rgb(31,73,125)">John, here is a better quality print of the paper.</span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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<span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif; color:rgb(31,73,125)">Since you dismiss the use of inertial reference frames you are automatically screwing up the very notion of what the speed of light is.</span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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<span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif; color:rgb(31,73,125)">Hence you cannot, and are not, talking in a self-consistent fashion about it. Not that anything you say is wrong by itself, but it doesn’t make a logical
or complete argument.</span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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<span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif; color:rgb(31,73,125)">I have studied it for a long time and have seen people get their knickers in a twist, being confused, and so on. Apparently it is not easy: Frank Wilczek,
Nobel laureate, cannot even get the photon in a box idea, which you actually do get! I just cannot figure out where your problem is, really, it must be coming from contamination with another problem in physics, you see, you are a very associative thinker (I
like that, but it requires retracing the sloppy jumps to conclusions to make proper science).</span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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<span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif; color:rgb(31,73,125)">Cheers, Martin</span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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<span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif; color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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<span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:10pt; font-family:Arial,sans-serif; color:navy" lang="DE">Dr. Martin B. van der Mark</span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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<span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:10pt; font-family:Arial,sans-serif; color:navy">Principal Scientist, Minimally Invasive Healthcare</span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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<span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:10pt; font-family:Arial,sans-serif; color:navy">Philips Research Europe - Eindhoven</span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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<span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:10pt; font-family:Arial,sans-serif; color:navy">High Tech Campus, Building 34 (WB2.025)</span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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<span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:10pt; font-family:Arial,sans-serif; color:navy">Prof. Holstlaan 4</span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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<span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:10pt; font-family:Arial,sans-serif; color:navy">5656 AE Eindhoven, The Netherlands</span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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<span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:10pt; font-family:Arial,sans-serif; color:navy">Tel: +31 40 2747548</span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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<span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif; color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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<b class="yiv4208318684"><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:10pt; font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:10pt; font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif"> </span></span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:10pt; font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif">General
[<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv4208318684" href="mailto:general-bounces+martin.van.der.mark=philips.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" style="color:purple; text-decoration:underline" target="_blank"><span class="yiv4208318684" style="color:rgb(149,79,114)">mailto:general-bounces+martin.van.der.mark=philips.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</span></a>]<span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="yiv4208318684">On
Behalf Of<span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"> </span></b>John Duffield<br class="yiv4208318684" clear="none">
<b class="yiv4208318684">Sent:</b><span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"> </span>donderdag 18 juni 2015 22:08<br class="yiv4208318684" clear="none">
<b class="yiv4208318684">To:</b><span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"> </span>'Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion'<br class="yiv4208318684" clear="none">
<b class="yiv4208318684">Subject:</b><span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [General] Electrical Charge and Photons</span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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<b class="yiv4208318684"><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif; color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang="EN-GB">Martin:</span></b><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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<b class="yiv4208318684"><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif; color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang="EN-GB"> </span></b><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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<div class="yiv4208318684" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:12pt; font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">
<b class="yiv4208318684"><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif; color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang="EN-GB">Einstein said what he said. Light curves because the speed of light varies with position. Not because space is curved,
or because spacetime is curved. But because space is<span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"> </span><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv4208318684" href="http://einsteinpapers.press.princeton.edu/vol7-trans/192?highlightText=%22neither%20homogeneous%22" style="color:purple; text-decoration:underline" target="_blank"><span class="yiv4208318684" style="color:rgb(149,79,114)">inhomogeneous</span></a>,
see attached. Because a concentration of energy tied up in the guise of a massive star “conditions” the surrounding space, altering its metrical properties. And all that comes from the guy who said the mass of a body is a measure of its energy content, just
like your<span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"> </span><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv4208318684" href="http://www.tardyon.de/mirror/hooft/hooft.htm" style="color:purple; text-decoration:underline" target="_blank"><span class="yiv4208318684" style="color:rgb(149,79,114)">light
in a box</span></a>. So brace yourself my Flemish friend, and take a stiff drink. Then watch my lips and listen carefully:<span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"> </span><i class="yiv4208318684">what you’ve been taught about relativity is wrong</i>.
Just like<span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"> </span><i class="yiv4208318684"><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv4208318684" href="http://www.fnal.gov/pub/today/archive/archive_2013/today13-02-15_NutshellReadMore.html" style="color:purple; text-decoration:underline" target="_blank"><span class="yiv4208318684" style="color:rgb(149,79,114)">what
I was taught about electrons</span></a><span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"> </span></i>is wrong. And note this: people, especially principal scientists, have a bad habit of rejecting anything that challenges what they were taught. That’s why it
took you six years to get that paper into a journal, and why eighteen years later, people<span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"> </span><i class="yiv4208318684">still</i><span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"> </span>reject the idea that
the electron is a photon going round and round. They would rather believe in magic and wallow in mystery.</span></b><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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<b class="yiv4208318684"><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif; color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang="EN-GB"> </span></b><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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<div class="yiv4208318684" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:12pt; font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">
<b class="yiv4208318684"><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif; color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang="EN-GB">But we don’t, do we? </span></b><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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<b class="yiv4208318684"><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif; color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang="EN-GB"> </span></b><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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<b class="yiv4208318684"><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif; color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang="EN-GB">Andrew:</span></b><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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<b class="yiv4208318684"><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif; color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang="EN-GB"> </span></b><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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<div class="yiv4208318684" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:12pt; font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">
<b class="yiv4208318684"><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif; color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang="EN-GB">Re<span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"> </span><i class="yiv4208318684">once again we are in close agreement</i>,
good stuff. If nobody agreed about anything, life would be hard, If we all agreed about everything, life would be soft. But somewhere between the two, it’s just right. </span></b><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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<b class="yiv4208318684"><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif; color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang="EN-GB"> </span></b><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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<b class="yiv4208318684"><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif; color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang="EN-GB">Regards</span></b><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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<div class="yiv4208318684" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:12pt; font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">
<b class="yiv4208318684"><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif; color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang="EN-GB">John D<span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"> </span></span></b><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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<span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif; color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang="EN-GB"> </span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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<b class="yiv4208318684"><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> </span></span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">General
[<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv4208318684" href="mailto:general-bounces+johnduffield=btconnect.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" style="color:purple; text-decoration:underline" target="_blank"><span class="yiv4208318684" style="color:rgb(149,79,114)">mailto:general-bounces+johnduffield=btconnect.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</span></a>]<span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="yiv4208318684">On
Behalf Of<span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Mark, Martin van der<br class="yiv4208318684" clear="none">
<b class="yiv4208318684">Sent:</b><span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"> </span>18 June 2015 12:26<br class="yiv4208318684" clear="none">
<b class="yiv4208318684">To:</b><span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"> </span>Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion<br class="yiv4208318684" clear="none">
<b class="yiv4208318684">Subject:</b><span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [General] Electrical Charge and Photons</span></div>
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<span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" lang="EN-GB"> </span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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<span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif; color:rgb(31,73,125)">John, just forget it and go fishing.</span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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<div class="yiv4208318684" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:12pt; font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">
<span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif; color:rgb(31,73,125)">If you do not want to use the same words for the same meaning as others have done, then there cannot be a discussion. Period.</span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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<span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif; color:rgb(31,73,125)">Your potentially good understanding of relativity is severely hampered by it.</span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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<div class="yiv4208318684" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:12pt; font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">
<span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif; color:rgb(31,73,125)">Have a beer, cheers, Martin</span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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<span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:10pt; font-family:Arial,sans-serif; color:navy" lang="DE">Dr. Martin B. van der Mark</span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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<span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:10pt; font-family:Arial,sans-serif; color:navy">Principal Scientist, Minimally Invasive Healthcare</span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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<span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:10pt; font-family:Arial,sans-serif; color:navy">Philips Research Europe - Eindhoven</span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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<span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:10pt; font-family:Arial,sans-serif; color:navy">High Tech Campus, Building 34 (WB2.025)</span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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<span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:10pt; font-family:Arial,sans-serif; color:navy">Prof. Holstlaan 4</span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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<span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:10pt; font-family:Arial,sans-serif; color:navy">5656 AE Eindhoven, The Netherlands</span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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<span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:10pt; font-family:Arial,sans-serif; color:navy">Tel: +31 40 2747548</span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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<span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif; color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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<b class="yiv4208318684"><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:10pt; font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:10pt; font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif"> </span></span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:10pt; font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif">General
[<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv4208318684" href="mailto:general-bounces+martin.van.der.mark=philips.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" style="color:purple; text-decoration:underline" target="_blank"><span class="yiv4208318684" style="color:rgb(149,79,114)">mailto:general-bounces+martin.van.der.mark=philips.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</span></a>]<span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="yiv4208318684">On
Behalf Of<span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"> </span></b>John Duffield<br class="yiv4208318684" clear="none">
<b class="yiv4208318684">Sent:</b><span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"> </span>donderdag 18 juni 2015 8:17<br class="yiv4208318684" clear="none">
<b class="yiv4208318684">To:</b><span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"> </span>'Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion'<br class="yiv4208318684" clear="none">
<b class="yiv4208318684">Subject:</b><span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [General] Electrical Charge and Photons</span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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<span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif; color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang="EN-GB">Martin:</span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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<span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif; color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang="EN-GB"> </span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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<span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif; color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang="EN-GB">The problem is that the speed of light<span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"> </span><i class="yiv4208318684">isn’t</i><span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"> </span>constant.
Forget about inertial frames or accelerated frames, because you cannot point up to the clear night sky and say<span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"> </span><i class="yiv4208318684">“look, there’s a reference frame”.</i><span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"> </span>A
reference frame is an abstract thing associated with your measurements. Just think about the room you’re in. In this room an optical clock near the floor goes slower than an optical clock near the ceiling. And there is no actual time flowing through these
clocks. Instead what you have in those clocks is, at the fundamental level,<span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"> </span><i class="yiv4208318684">light, moving</i>. So why does light curve downwards? Let’s<span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"> </span><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv4208318684" href="http://einsteinpapers.press.princeton.edu/vol7-trans/156?highlightText=%22speed%20of%20light%22" style="color:purple; text-decoration:underline" target="_blank"><span class="yiv4208318684" style="color:rgb(149,79,114)">ask
Einstein</span></a>:<span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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<span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif; color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang="EN-GB"> </span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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<div class="yiv4208318684" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:12pt; font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">
<span class="yiv4208318684t-search-snippet1"><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:inherit; color:rgb(34,34,34)" lang="EN-GB">“Second, this consequence shows that the law of the constancy of the</span></span><span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:inherit; color:rgb(34,34,34)" lang="EN-GB"> </span></span><span class="yiv4208318684t-search-snippet-highlight"><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:inherit; color:rgb(34,34,34)" lang="EN-GB">speed</span></span><span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:inherit; color:rgb(34,34,34)" lang="EN-GB"> </span></span><span class="yiv4208318684t-search-snippet1"><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:inherit; color:rgb(34,34,34)" lang="EN-GB">of</span></span><span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:inherit; color:rgb(34,34,34)" lang="EN-GB"> </span></span><span class="yiv4208318684t-search-snippet-highlight"><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:inherit; color:rgb(34,34,34)" lang="EN-GB">light</span></span><span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:inherit; color:rgb(34,34,34)" lang="EN-GB"> </span></span><span class="yiv4208318684t-search-snippet1"><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:inherit; color:rgb(34,34,34)" lang="EN-GB">no
longer holds, according to the general theory of relativity, in spaces that have gravitational fields. As a simple geometric consideration shows, the curvature of light rays occurs only in spaces where the</span></span><span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:inherit; color:rgb(34,34,34)" lang="EN-GB"> </span></span><span class="yiv4208318684t-search-snippet-highlight"><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:inherit; color:rgb(34,34,34)" lang="EN-GB">speed</span></span><span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:inherit; color:rgb(34,34,34)" lang="EN-GB"> </span></span><span class="yiv4208318684t-search-snippet1"><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:inherit; color:rgb(34,34,34)" lang="EN-GB">of</span></span><span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:inherit; color:rgb(34,34,34)" lang="EN-GB"> </span></span><span class="yiv4208318684t-search-snippet-highlight"><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:inherit; color:rgb(34,34,34)" lang="EN-GB">light</span></span><span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:inherit; color:rgb(34,34,34)" lang="EN-GB"> </span></span><span class="yiv4208318684t-search-snippet1"><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:inherit; color:rgb(34,34,34)" lang="EN-GB">is
spatially variable”.</span></span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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<span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif; color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang="EN-GB"> </span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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<div class="yiv4208318684" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:12pt; font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">
<span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif; color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang="EN-GB">Einstein never ever said light curves because spacetime is curved. He said<span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"> </span><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv4208318684" href="http://einsteinpapers.press.princeton.edu/vol6-trans/360?highlightText=%22velocity%20of%20light%22" style="color:purple; text-decoration:underline" target="_blank"><span class="yiv4208318684" style="color:rgb(149,79,114)">this</span></a>:</span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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<span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif; color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang="EN-GB"> </span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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<div class="yiv4208318684" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:12pt; font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">
<span class="yiv4208318684t-search-snippet1"><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:inherit; color:rgb(34,34,34)" lang="EN-GB">“This was possible on the basis of the law of the constancy of the</span></span><span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:inherit; color:rgb(34,34,34)" lang="EN-GB"> </span></span><span class="yiv4208318684t-search-snippet-highlight"><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:inherit; color:rgb(34,34,34)" lang="EN-GB">velocity</span></span><span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:inherit; color:rgb(34,34,34)" lang="EN-GB"> </span></span><span class="yiv4208318684t-search-snippet1"><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:inherit; color:rgb(34,34,34)" lang="EN-GB">of</span></span><span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:inherit; color:rgb(34,34,34)" lang="EN-GB"> </span></span><span class="yiv4208318684t-search-snippet-highlight"><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:inherit; color:rgb(34,34,34)" lang="EN-GB">light</span></span><span class="yiv4208318684t-search-snippet1"><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:inherit; color:rgb(34,34,34)" lang="EN-GB">.
But according to Section 21, the general theory of relativity cannot retain this law”.</span></span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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<span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif; color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang="EN-GB"> </span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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<div class="yiv4208318684" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:12pt; font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">
<span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif; color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang="EN-GB">And<span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"> </span><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv4208318684" href="http://einsteinpapers.press.princeton.edu/vol6-trans/340?highlightText=%22laid%20in%20the%20dust%22" style="color:purple; text-decoration:underline" target="_blank"><span class="yiv4208318684" style="color:rgb(149,79,114)">this</span></a>.</span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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<span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif; color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang="EN-GB"> </span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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<span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:inherit" lang="EN-GB">“In the second place our result shows that, according to the general theory of relativity, the law of the constancy of the velocity of light in vacuo, which constitutes one
of the two fundamental assumptions in the special theory of relativity and to which we have already frequently referred, cannot claim any unlimited validity. A curvature of rays of light can only take place when the velocity of propagation of light varies
with position. Now we might think that as a consequence of this, the special theory of relativity and with it the whole theory of relativity would be laid in the dust. But in reality this is not the case. We can only conclude that the special theory of relativity
cannot claim an unlimited domain of validity; its results hold only so long as we are able to disregard the influences of gravitational fields on the phenomena (e.g. of light).”</span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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<span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif; color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang="EN-GB"> </span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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<div class="yiv4208318684" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:12pt; font-family:'Times New Roman',serif">
<span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif; color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang="EN-GB">Like I said, some of the translations use the word velocity when it should have been speed. Light curves<span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"> </span><i class="yiv4208318684">because</i><span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"> </span>the
speed of light varies with position. It isn’t totally unlike<span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"> </span><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv4208318684" href="http://fas.org/man/dod-101/navy/docs/es310/SNR_PROP/snr_prop.htm" style="color:purple; text-decoration:underline" target="_blank"><span class="yiv4208318684" style="color:rgb(149,79,114)">sonar</span></a>.<span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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<span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif; color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang="EN-GB"> </span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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<span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif; color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang="EN-GB"><image001.gif></span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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<span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif; color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang="EN-GB"> </span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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<span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif; color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang="EN-GB"> </span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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<span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif; color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang="EN-GB">So when your electron falls down, it ain’t magic:</span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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<span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif; color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang="EN-GB"> </span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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<span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif; color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang="EN-GB"><image002.jpg></span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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<span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif; color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang="EN-GB"> </span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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<span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif; color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang="EN-GB">Regards</span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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<span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif; color:rgb(31,73,125)" lang="EN-GB">John D</span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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<b class="yiv4208318684"><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"> </span></span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">General
[<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv4208318684" href="mailto:general-bounces+johnduffield=btconnect.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" style="color:purple; text-decoration:underline" target="_blank"><span class="yiv4208318684" style="color:rgb(149,79,114)">mailto:general-bounces+johnduffield=btconnect.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</span></a>]<span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="yiv4208318684">On
Behalf Of<span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Mark, Martin van der<br class="yiv4208318684" clear="none">
<b class="yiv4208318684">Sent:</b><span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"> </span>17 June 2015 23:53<br class="yiv4208318684" clear="none">
<b class="yiv4208318684">To:</b><span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"> </span>Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion<br class="yiv4208318684" clear="none">
<b class="yiv4208318684">Subject:</b><span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [General] Electrical Charge and Photons</span></div>
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<span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" lang="EN-GB">Dear John D, </span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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<span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" lang="EN-GB">As john M is corectly trying to point out, but i will say it in a slightly different way:</span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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<span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" lang="EN-GB">The speed of light is supposed to be constant in an any inertial frame (and it is!!!). The pressence of a gravitational field implies an accelerated frame, by the
principle of equivalence it can locally be replaced by an accelerating space ship or elevator or what. </span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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<span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" lang="EN-GB">What is the problem? Special relativity can already deal with this correctly, and there should be no confusion about the definitions.</span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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<span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" lang="EN-GB">Claming that there is a problem with the non-constancy of the speed of light is a mistake: it is exactly non constant in the way it should be, in accordance with
the constancy of light speed as measured in any inertial (lorentz) frame or even very local, and if horizontal, in a gravitational field!</span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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<span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" lang="EN-GB">Cheers, Martin<br class="yiv4208318684" clear="none">
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Verstuurd vanaf mijn iPhone</span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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Op 17 jun. 2015 om 22:38 heeft John Macken <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv4208318684" href="mailto:john@macken.com" style="color:purple; text-decoration:underline" target="_blank"><span class="yiv4208318684" style="color:rgb(149,79,114)">john@macken.com</span></a>>
het volgende geschreven:</span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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<span class="yiv4208318684" style="color:blue" lang="EN-GB">John D.</span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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<span class="yiv4208318684" style="color:blue" lang="EN-GB">I disagree with two of your points and I am not sure if we agree or disagree on the third point. I will start with the constancy of the speed of light. This is the one where I am not sure if we agree
or disagree. I claim that the speed of light measured locally is constant. You agree but imply that this is a trivial point because both the meter and the second are defined by the speed of light. If we were dealing with some abstract physics problem, I
would agree. However, in the real world there are many more components which all change in a way to preserve the covariance of the laws of physics. For example, the all the following are the same when it is measured in different gravitational potentials
using different rates of time:</span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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<span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" lang="EN-GB">a)</span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:7pt" lang="EN-GB"> <span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="color:blue" lang="EN-GB">The
gravitational constant; b) the electron’s energy; c) the electron’s charge; d) the fine structure constant; e) a mass of 1 kg</span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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<span class="yiv4208318684" style="color:blue" lang="EN-GB"> </span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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<span class="yiv4208318684" style="color:blue" lang="EN-GB">I could go on, but the point is that saying that the speed of light is constant when measured locally is not a trivial statement. Think about using a physical meter stick and a stop watch to measure
the speed of light. All the atoms and forces in the meter stick and all the physical parts of the stop watch need to cooperate to give a constant speed of light when measured locally. <span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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<span class="yiv4208318684" style="color:blue" lang="EN-GB">I am a strong believer that the speed of light is not constant if a hypothetical “zero gravity observer” uses his/her clock to make the measurement. I think that if we were discussing the speed of
light in person, we would decide that we agreed, but were using different words.</span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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<span class="yiv4208318684" style="color:blue" lang="EN-GB">The next point will not go away so easily. You said:</span><span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif; color:rgb(0,0,153)" lang="EN-GB"> </span></span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif; color:rgb(0,0,153)" lang="EN-GB">“So
matter is deflected half as much as light.”</span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="color:blue" lang="EN-GB">. If I understand this statement, you are claiming that if a neutron or neutrino traveling at virtually the speed of light passes by the sun, the
deflection would be different compared to the deflection of light. This implies that inside a closed spaceship that you can do an experiment that determines if you are in zero gravity or in free fall in a gravitational field. The difference should theoretically
be detectable by measuring the difference in the location of where photons and neutrons strike a target when they are shot transverse to the suspected gravitational field. This is not going to happen. Again the extra volume created by gravity explains this.</span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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<span class="yiv4208318684" style="color:blue" lang="EN-GB">The next point of disagreement is contained in the following:</span><span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif; color:rgb(0,0,153)" lang="EN-GB"> </span></span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif; color:rgb(0,0,153)" lang="EN-GB">“I’m
afraid the Shapiro experiment has not showed that the sun has enlarged the volume of the surrounding space</span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="color:blue" lang="EN-GB">.” You then quite from a 1964 paper which proposed the experiment. It is standard
GR that in a gravitational field generated by a central mass you would get a different radial distance measured with a hypothetical tape measure compared to the radius calculated by measuring the circumference and dividing by 2π. Therefore terms such as “circumferential
radius” or “reduced radius” were coined to specify this difference. Here are two sentences from my book.</span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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<span class="yiv4208318684" lang="EN-GB">Suppose that it was possible to stretch a tape measure from the earth to the surface of the sun. The distance measured by the tape measure (proper distance) would be about 7.5 km greater than a distance obtained from
an assumption of flat space and a Euclidian geometry calculation.</span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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<span class="yiv4208318684" style="color:blue" lang="EN-GB">The book goes on to calculate the non-Euclidian volume increase caused by the sun’s gravity within a spherical volume 1 AU in radius. The answer obtained is 3.46 × 10<sup class="yiv4208318684">26</sup><span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"> </span>m<sup class="yiv4208318684">3</sup><span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"> </span>which
is more than 300,000 times larger than the volume of the earth (earth’s volume is ≈ 1.08 × 10<sup class="yiv4208318684">21</sup><span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"> </span>m<sup class="yiv4208318684">3</sup>). On page 2-13 of the book there is
another calculation that compares the decrease in the rate of time and the increase in the radial dimension produced by gravity. Here is the conclusion. </span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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<span class="yiv4208318684" lang="EN-GB">When we include the time dimension and calculate the effect of the gravity generated by a single mass on the surrounding spacetime, we obtain the answer that the<span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="yiv4208318684">4</b><span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"> </span>dimensional
spacetime volume is independent of gravitational gamma Г. The radial dimension increases (Г = dL<sub class="yiv4208318684">R</sub>/dR) and the temporal dimension decreases (Г = dt/dτ). These offset each other resulting in the<span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="yiv4208318684">4</b><span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"> </span>dimensional
volume remaining constant.</span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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<span class="yiv4208318684" style="color:blue" lang="EN-GB">John M.</span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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<b class="yiv4208318684"><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" lang="EN-GB">From:</span></b><span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" lang="EN-GB"> </span></span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" lang="EN-GB">General
[<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv4208318684" href="mailto:general-bounces+john=macken.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" style="color:purple; text-decoration:underline" target="_blank"><span class="yiv4208318684" style="color:rgb(149,79,114)">mailto:general-bounces+john=macken.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</span></a>]<span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="yiv4208318684">On
Behalf Of<span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"> </span></b>John Duffield<br class="yiv4208318684" clear="none">
<b class="yiv4208318684">Sent:</b><span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"> </span>Wednesday, June 17, 2015 10:18 AM<br class="yiv4208318684" clear="none">
<b class="yiv4208318684">To:</b><span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"> </span>'Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion'<br class="yiv4208318684" clear="none">
<b class="yiv4208318684">Subject:</b><span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [General] Electrical Charge and Photons</span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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<span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif; color:rgb(0,0,153)" lang="EN-GB">John M:</span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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<span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif; color:rgb(0,0,153)" lang="EN-GB">With respect John, I’m being very precise. We use the local motion of light to define our metre and our second. Then we use them to measure… the local motion
of light. Duh! The apparent constancy is a tautology, and a popscience myth. Have a look at<span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" lang="EN-GB"><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv4208318684" href="http://arxiv.org/abs/0705.4507" style="color:purple; text-decoration:underline" target="_blank"><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,153)">http://arxiv.org/abs/0705.4507</span></a></span><span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif; color:rgb(0,0,153)" lang="EN-GB"> </span></span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif; color:rgb(0,0,153)" lang="EN-GB">and
check out<span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" lang="EN-GB"><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv4208318684" href="http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/physics/Relativity/SpeedOfLight/speed_of_light.html" style="color:purple; text-decoration:underline" target="_blank"><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,153)">this
Baez article</span></a></span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif; color:rgb(0,0,153)" lang="EN-GB">. The speed of light varies in the room you’re in. Light goes slower near the floor than near the ceiling, and because of this,
light curves. That’s what Einstein said, repeatedly. Do your own research on this, see original material like<span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" lang="EN-GB"><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv4208318684" href="http://einsteinpapers.press.princeton.edu/vol6-trans/360?highlightText=%22velocity%20of%20light%22" style="color:purple; text-decoration:underline" target="_blank"><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:12pt; color:rgb(149,79,114)">this</span></a></span><span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif; color:rgb(0,0,153)" lang="EN-GB"> </span></span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif; color:rgb(0,0,153)" lang="EN-GB">and
note that the English translations sometimes use the word velocity when the correct word to use is speed. Einstein refers to the SR postulate, which was the constant speed of light, and says it doesn’t apply where gravity is concerned. </span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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<span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif; color:rgb(0,0,153)" lang="EN-GB">The deflection of light is twice the Newtonian deflection of matter because of the wave nature of matter. Simplify the electron to light going round and round.
Then simplify it further to light going round a square path. Then draw the light curving downwards, like this:</span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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<span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif; color:rgb(0,0,153)" lang="EN-GB">Can you envisage how the electron falls down? The reducing speed of light bleeds internal kinetic energy out into external kinetic energy, and once you’ve radiated
that away, you’re left with a<span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" lang="EN-GB"><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv4208318684" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Binding_energy#Mass-energy_relation" style="color:purple; text-decoration:underline" target="_blank"><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:12pt; color:rgb(149,79,114)">mass
deficit</span></a></span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif; color:rgb(0,0,153)" lang="EN-GB">. Anyway, note that only the horizontals bend downwards? The verticals don’t. So only half the total light path is deflected. So matter
is deflected half as much as light.</span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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<span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif; color:rgb(0,0,153)" lang="EN-GB">I’m afraid the Shapiro experiment has not showed that the sun has enlarged the volume of the surrounding space. See Shapiro’s paper attached, and note this:<span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"> </span><i class="yiv4208318684">“the
speed of a light wave depends on the strength of the gravitational potential along its path”</i>. I’m afraid the people who tell you that the Sun has enlarged space, and that the speed of light is absolutely constant, are flatly contradicting Einstein, Shapiro,
and the hard scientific evidence. </span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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<span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif; color:rgb(0,0,153)" lang="EN-GB">Re the shear-wave analogy, I was referring to transverse waves in an elastic solid. See the shear-stress term in the stress-energy-momentum tensor? Shear stress.
It’s there because space is something like a ghostly gin-clear elastic continuum. NB: electromagnetic waves are typically dipole transverse waves, whilst gravitational waves are said to be quadrupole transverse waves. </span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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<span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif; color:rgb(0,0,153)" lang="EN-GB">Regards</span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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<span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif; color:rgb(0,0,153)" lang="EN-GB">John D </span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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<b class="yiv4208318684"><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" lang="EN-GB">From:</span></b><span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" lang="EN-GB"> </span></span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" lang="EN-GB">General
[<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv4208318684" href="mailto:general-bounces+johnduffield=btconnect.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" style="color:purple; text-decoration:underline" target="_blank"><span class="yiv4208318684" style="color:rgb(149,79,114)">mailto:general-bounces+johnduffield=btconnect.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</span></a>]<span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="yiv4208318684">On
Behalf Of<span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"> </span></b>John Macken<br class="yiv4208318684" clear="none">
<b class="yiv4208318684">Sent:</b><span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"> </span>17 June 2015 17:12<br class="yiv4208318684" clear="none">
<b class="yiv4208318684">To:</b><span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"> </span>'Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion'<br class="yiv4208318684" clear="none">
<b class="yiv4208318684">Subject:</b><span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [General] Electrical Charge and Photons</span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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<span class="yiv4208318684" style="color:blue" lang="EN-GB">John D.</span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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<span class="yiv4208318684" style="color:blue" lang="EN-GB">I think that you are not being precise enough when you say that the speed of light is not constant. There are two definitions for ways of measuring the speed of light. In one of them the speed of
light is constant and in the other the speed of light is not constant. If the speed of light is measured locally (using a local clock and ruler), then the speed of light is always constant. If you adopt a single clock to measure the speed of light in different
gravitational potentials, then the speed of light varies. </span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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<span class="yiv4208318684" style="color:blue" lang="EN-GB"> </span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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<span class="yiv4208318684" style="color:blue" lang="EN-GB">Even your interpretation of the amount that it varies depends on one other choice. This point will be illustrated with an example. When light is bent by passing near a large mass such as the sun,
the angle is twice what might be expected from the classical model of the light feeling gravitational acceleration and “falling” as it passed the massive body. The factor of 2 can be explained two different ways. I will not go into the details here because
they are covered in chapters 2 and 3 of my book. However, the key difference between these two choices lies in the handling of the gravitational effect on volume. The Shapiro experiment showed that the sun has enlarged the volume of the surrounding space
beyond what would be expected from Euclidian geometry. If the photon passing through this volume is given credit for having traveled a greater distance, then the effect on the radial coordinate speed of light is different than if this effect on space is ignored
and all the bending is attributed to a slowing in the coordinate speed of light. </span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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<span class="yiv4208318684" style="color:blue" lang="EN-GB"> </span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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<span class="yiv4208318684" style="color:blue" lang="EN-GB">On another point, I am not sure that I understood your comment about the analogy to the sheer wave speed of sound. Sound wave analogies break down when you get into sheer waves. Spacetime does not
need to be a rigid medium like a solid in order to be able to support transverse waves. When we are dealing with waves propagating at the speed of light, effects occur which are not analogous to waves propagating at far less than the speed of light. The
fact that gravitational waves are transverse waves without spacetime being a rigid body is one of these differences. </span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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<span class="yiv4208318684" style="color:blue" lang="EN-GB">John M.</span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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<b class="yiv4208318684"><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" lang="EN-GB">From:</span></b><span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" lang="EN-GB"> </span></span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" lang="EN-GB">General
[<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv4208318684" href="mailto:general-bounces+john=macken.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" style="color:purple; text-decoration:underline" target="_blank"><span class="yiv4208318684" style="color:rgb(149,79,114)">mailto:general-bounces+john=macken.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</span></a>]<span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="yiv4208318684">On
Behalf Of<span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"> </span></b>John Duffield<br class="yiv4208318684" clear="none">
<b class="yiv4208318684">Sent:</b><span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"> </span>Tuesday, June 16, 2015 11:43 PM<br class="yiv4208318684" clear="none">
<b class="yiv4208318684">To:</b><span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"> </span>'Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion'<br class="yiv4208318684" clear="none">
<b class="yiv4208318684">Subject:</b><span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [General] Electrical Charge and Photons</span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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<span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" lang="EN-GB"> </span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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<span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" lang="EN-GB">John M:</span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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<span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" lang="EN-GB">Take care with constants. In mechanics a shear wave travels at a velocity determined by the stiffness and density of the medium: </span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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<b class="yiv4208318684"><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" lang="EN-GB"> <span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"> </span></span></b><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" lang="EN-GB"> v
= √(G/ρ)</span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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<span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" lang="EN-GB">The G here is the<span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"> </span><i class="yiv4208318684">shear modulus of elasticity</i>, the ρ is the density. The equation says a shear
wave travels faster if the material gets stiffer, and slower if the density increases. You can’t directly apply the concept of density to space, but in electrodynamics the velocity equation is remarkably similar:<span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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<span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" lang="EN-GB"> c = √(1/ε<sub class="yiv4208318684">0</sub>μ<sub class="yiv4208318684">0</sub>)</span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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<span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" lang="EN-GB">People are taught that the speed of light is constant, but it simply isn’t true. See the second paragraph<span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" lang="EN-GB"><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv4208318684" href="http://einsteinpapers.press.princeton.edu/vol7-trans/156?highlightText=%22speed%20of%20light%22" style="color:purple; text-decoration:underline" target="_blank"><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:12pt; color:rgb(149,79,114)">here</span></a></span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" lang="EN-GB">.
If the speed of light was constant in the room you’re in, optical clocks wouldn’t go slower when they’re lower, and your pencil wouldn’t fall down.</span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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<span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" lang="EN-GB">Regards</span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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<span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" lang="EN-GB">John D</span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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<span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" lang="EN-GB"><image003.jpg></span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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<span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" lang="EN-GB"> </span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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<b class="yiv4208318684"><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" lang="EN-GB">From:</span></b><span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" lang="EN-GB"> </span></span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" lang="EN-GB">General
[<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv4208318684" href="mailto:general-bounces+johnduffield=btconnect.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" style="color:purple; text-decoration:underline" target="_blank"><span class="yiv4208318684" style="color:rgb(149,79,114)">mailto:general-bounces+johnduffield=btconnect.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</span></a>]<span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="yiv4208318684">On
Behalf Of<span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"> </span></b>John Macken<br class="yiv4208318684" clear="none">
<b class="yiv4208318684">Sent:</b><span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"> </span>17 June 2015 02:07<br class="yiv4208318684" clear="none">
<b class="yiv4208318684">To:</b><span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"> </span>'Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion'<br class="yiv4208318684" clear="none">
<b class="yiv4208318684">Subject:</b><span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [General] Electrical Charge and Photons</span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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<span class="yiv4208318684" lang="EN-GB">Hello John W. and All,</span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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<span class="yiv4208318684" lang="EN-GB"> </span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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<span class="yiv4208318684" lang="EN-GB">In your response you said,</span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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<span class="yiv4208318684" style="color:blue" lang="EN-GB"> </span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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<span class="yiv4208318684" style="color:rgb(192,0,0)" lang="EN-GB">Just for the record, our toy model calculated big G in terms of 1/(4pi epsilon zero) ... thus eliminating (in principle) yet another natural constant altogether:<span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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<span class="yiv4208318684" lang="EN-GB"> </span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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<span class="yiv4208318684" lang="EN-GB">This is very interesting since this implies an alternative to my charge conversion constant<span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"> </span></span><i class="yiv4208318684"><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-family:'Cambria Math',serif" lang="EN-GB">η</span></i><span class="yiv4208318684" lang="EN-GB">.</span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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<span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:14pt" lang="EN-GB"> </span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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<i class="yiv4208318684"><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:14pt; font-family:'Cambria Math',serif" lang="EN-GB">η</span></i><i class="yiv4208318684"><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:14pt" lang="EN-GB"> </span></i><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:14pt; font-family:'Cambria Math',serif" lang="EN-GB">≡</span><span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:14pt" lang="EN-GB"> </span></span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:14pt" lang="EN-GB">(<i class="yiv4208318684">G<b class="yiv4208318684">/</b></i>4π<i class="yiv4208318684">ε<sub class="yiv4208318684">o</sub>c</i><sup class="yiv4208318684">4</sup>)<sup class="yiv4208318684">1/2<span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"> </span></sup>=<span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"> </span><i class="yiv4208318684">L<sub class="yiv4208318684">p<span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"> </span></sub><b class="yiv4208318684">/</b>q<sub class="yiv4208318684">p</sub></i><span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"> </span>≈
8.61 x 10<sup class="yiv4208318684">-18<span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"> </span></sup>m<b class="yiv4208318684"><i class="yiv4208318684">/</i></b>C</span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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<span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:14pt" lang="EN-GB"> </span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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<span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:14pt" lang="EN-GB">(1/4π<i class="yiv4208318684">ε<sub class="yiv4208318684">o</sub></i>)(1/</span><span class="yiv4208318684MsoPlaceholderText"><i class="yiv4208318684"><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:14pt; font-family:'Cambria Math',serif" lang="EN-GB">η</span></i></span><span class="yiv4208318684MsoPlaceholderText"><sup class="yiv4208318684"><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:14pt" lang="EN-GB">2</span></sup></span><span class="yiv4208318684MsoPlaceholderText"><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:14pt" lang="EN-GB">)
=</span></span><span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:14pt" lang="EN-GB"> </span></span><span class="yiv4208318684MsoPlaceholderText"><i class="yiv4208318684"><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:14pt" lang="EN-GB">c<sup class="yiv4208318684">4</sup>/G</span></i></span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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<span class="yiv4208318684MsoPlaceholderText"><i class="yiv4208318684"><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:14pt" lang="EN-GB">G</span></i></span><span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:14pt" lang="EN-GB"> </span></span><span class="yiv4208318684MsoPlaceholderText"><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:14pt" lang="EN-GB">=
4π<i class="yiv4208318684">ε<sub class="yiv4208318684">o</sub>c<sup class="yiv4208318684">4</sup></i></span></span><span class="yiv4208318684MsoPlaceholderText"><i class="yiv4208318684"><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:14pt; font-family:'Cambria Math',serif" lang="EN-GB">η</span></i></span><span class="yiv4208318684MsoPlaceholderText"><i class="yiv4208318684"><sup class="yiv4208318684"><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:14pt" lang="EN-GB">2</span></sup></i></span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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<span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:14pt" lang="EN-GB"> </span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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<span class="yiv4208318684" lang="EN-GB">I admit that I think that my charge conversion constant is perfect. Therefore, I would like to make a comparison to your derivation that eliminates the constant<span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:14pt" lang="EN-GB">1/4πε<sub class="yiv4208318684">o</sub>.</span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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<span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:14pt" lang="EN-GB"> </span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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<span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:14pt" lang="EN-GB">John M.</span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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<b class="yiv4208318684"><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" lang="EN-GB">From:</span></b><span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" lang="EN-GB"> </span></span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" lang="EN-GB">General
[<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv4208318684" href="mailto:general-bounces+john=macken.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" style="color:purple; text-decoration:underline" target="_blank"><span class="yiv4208318684" style="color:rgb(149,79,114)">mailto:general-bounces+john=macken.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</span></a>]<span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="yiv4208318684">On
Behalf Of<span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"> </span></b>John Williamson<br class="yiv4208318684" clear="none">
<b class="yiv4208318684">Sent:</b><span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"> </span>Tuesday, June 16, 2015 4:47 PM<br class="yiv4208318684" clear="none">
<b class="yiv4208318684">To:</b><span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"> </span>Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion<br class="yiv4208318684" clear="none">
<b class="yiv4208318684">Cc:</b><span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"> </span>Manohar .; Nick Bailey; Ariane Mandray; Philipp Steinmann<br class="yiv4208318684" clear="none">
<b class="yiv4208318684">Subject:</b><span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [General] Electrical Charge and Photons</span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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<span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif" lang="EN-GB"> </span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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<span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:10pt; font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif" lang="EN-GB">Dear John M and everyone,<br class="yiv4208318684" clear="none">
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Indeed it is useful to think about the relationship between things. I also agree with John M that gravity and electromagnetism are different aspects of the same thing. As I have said before, Martin and I developed a toy theory of these a decade or two ago
which gave the right numbers (with zero extra background mass/energy) but has not developed further than a a few pages in our "appendix" due to lack of time or energy due to the demands of our day jobs.<span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="yiv4208318684" clear="none">
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At the end of the day, replacing one universal constant with another, related one is zero net progress. In Martin and my 1997 paper we calculated the charge in terms of Planck's constant (or vice versa). This is one fundamental constant less. The basic idea
was that the oscillating electric field of the photon became uni-directional due to the folding of the photon path into a double-loop.<br class="yiv4208318684" clear="none">
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The hope with the new theory, which incorporates the experimentally observed properties of the four-dimensions of space and time from the outset, is that one can use it to calculate BOTH from first principles. I have tried this within the framework of an emission/absorption
model in the new classical field theory - and obtained an answer - but it is currently a couple orders of magnitude out. This is one of the areas I hope to get some help from with within the group - especially those with specialist knowledge of Atomic physics
- which is where I think the answer lies. Martin and I are anyway onto this - and he is already brushing up on his understanding of Atomic physics (amongst one or two other things!) to help to try to get a handle on this.<br class="yiv4208318684" clear="none">
<br class="yiv4208318684" clear="none">
Just for the record, our toy model calculated big G in terms of 1/(4pi epsilon zero) ... thus eliminating (in principle) yet another natural constant altogether: one of the essential assumptions in deriving this was precisely that there was zero net energy
in the vacuum fluctuations. As is observed.<br class="yiv4208318684" clear="none">
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Regards, John W.</span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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<b class="yiv4208318684"><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:10pt; font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif" lang="EN-GB">From:</span></b><span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:10pt; font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif" lang="EN-GB"> </span></span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:10pt; font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif" lang="EN-GB">General
[<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv4208318684" href="mailto:general-bounces+john.williamson=glasgow.ac.uk@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" style="color:purple; text-decoration:underline" target="_blank"><span class="yiv4208318684" style="color:rgb(149,79,114)">general-bounces+john.williamson=glasgow.ac.uk@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</span></a>]
on behalf of John Macken [<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv4208318684" href="mailto:john@macken.com" style="color:purple; text-decoration:underline" target="_blank"><span class="yiv4208318684" style="color:rgb(149,79,114)">john@macken.com</span></a>]<br class="yiv4208318684" clear="none">
<b class="yiv4208318684">Sent:</b><span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"> </span>Tuesday, June 16, 2015 11:56 PM<br class="yiv4208318684" clear="none">
<b class="yiv4208318684">To:</b><span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"> </span>Nature of Light and Particles<br class="yiv4208318684" clear="none">
<b class="yiv4208318684">Subject:</b><span class="yiv4208318684apple-converted-space"> </span>[General] Electrical Charge and Photons</span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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<span class="yiv4208318684" lang="EN-GB">Hello John W and Everyone,</span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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<span class="yiv4208318684" lang="EN-GB"> </span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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<span class="yiv4208318684" lang="EN-GB">In looking over one of the papers sent by John W. I was struck by the following sentences:</span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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<span class="yiv4208318684" lang="EN-GB"> </span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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<span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:14pt; color:rgb(192,0,0)" lang="EN-GB">This comes to one of the central, outstanding mysteries of physics. What is the underlying nature of quantized charge?</span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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<span class="yiv4208318684" lang="EN-GB">It has occurred to me that I can make a contribution to answering this question. Attached is several pages from chapter 9 of the revised version of my book. In this I propose a “charge conversion constant” and show
the implications of this towards explaining the properties of a photon.</span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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<span class="yiv4208318684" lang="EN-GB">I would appreciate hearing if anyone can find a single case where using the charge conversion constant gives an unreasonable answer. Also, the paper implies that the spacetime field is the new aether. Can you find
any reasons why this is not correct?</span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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<span class="yiv4208318684" lang="EN-GB">John </span><span class="yiv4208318684" style="font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"></span></div>
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