<div dir="ltr"><div><div><div>Dear Richard,<br><br></div>I am asking Mary to put this item on the questionaire that we will all be asked to fill out.<br><br></div>My view is that, as the EM fields are AC, the energy density will be so as well. Thus, the mass will vary as well and it cannot be measured directly. However, + & - mass are both attractive so it will have gravitational mass. Since the photon does not exist at rest, it has no rest mass. It can be confined and the mass measured. Normally, its total mass is constant. If reduced to a single wavelength, its confined mass may oscillate between a finite value and zero. However, I don't think that it can be confined as a single wavelength.<br><br>The neutrino, which can exist at rest, has restmass; but (in my view)  its mass may still not be  measurable because it is AC mass.<br><br></div>Andrew<br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sat, Jul 4, 2015 at 6:30 PM, Richard Gauthier <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:richgauthier@gmail.com" target="_blank">richgauthier@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div style="word-wrap:break-word"><div>Martin (and all)</div><div>   You say at the end of “Light is Heavy”: "<font face="TimesNewRoman" size="2">If the photon would be put to rest, its gravitational mass would equal its rest mass, and hence vanish.” </font> I think we can agree that the closest light can be to “rest” in a vacuum is if it traveling at light-speed in a closed circle (or at light-speed in a helix as seen from a moving frame) as in our electron models. I think the question “Does such a photon have a rest mass?” is fundamental to our electron models and I think it would be good if we were able to  agree on a consistent answer that can be backed by rational arguments. I claim that this circulating (circularly or helically-moving) photon does have a constant rest mass (that of the electron) since it has energy E=gamma mc^2 but its average linear momentum is zero for a resting electron or p=gamma mv in the case of an electron moving with speed v (leading in either case to a calculation of rest mass m from the relativistic energy momentum equation E^2 = p^2 c^2 +m^2 c^4). Plus we know that an electron has a rest mass m so that the hypothetical photon composing the electron also must have the same rest mass m, whether the electron is moving or not. John W has indicated earlier (as I understood him) that this photon would not have a rest mass because the photon is moving at light-speed, but its confinement due to a pivot produces the rest mass of the electron. Martin seems to be saying in “Light is Heavy" that this circulating photon has a non-zero rest mass due to its self-confinement and so it is heavy. Are these two positions really different?  Could both of you make a brief clarifying statement about this point, briefly summarizing your reasons, so we can see the level of our agreement or disagreement on this point?  Also Chip, John D, John M, Vivian, Andrew?</div><div>     Richard</div><br><div><blockquote type="cite"><div><div class="h5"><div>On Jul 4, 2015, at 6:24 AM, Chip Akins <<a href="mailto:chipakins@gmail.com" target="_blank">chipakins@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><br></div></div><div><div><div class="h5"><div style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px"><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span>Thank you John D and Martin<u></u><u></u></span></div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span> </span></div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span>This is what I also thought.  Light must have a very small contribution to the universal gravitational field.  After all, it is made of the same “stuff” as everything else.<u></u><u></u></span></div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span> </span></div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span>Chip<u></u><u></u></span></div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span> </span></div><div><div style="border-style:solid none none;border-top-color:rgb(225,225,225);border-top-width:1pt;padding:3pt 0in 0in"><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><b><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span> </span>General [<a href="mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank">mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>]<span> </span><b>On Behalf Of<span> </span></b>Mark, Martin van der<br><b>Sent:</b><span> </span>Saturday, July 04, 2015 8:13 AM<br><b>To:</b><span> </span>Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion<br><b>Subject:</b><span> </span>Re: [General] Physics in 100 years according to Wilczek<u></u><u></u></span></div></div></div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><u></u> <u></u></div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Hi Chip,<u></u><u></u></span></div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Yes it does, but the total mass in all the radiation in the universe is far less than that of matter, in the present era. In the first 300.000 years after the big bang (whatever that was), the universe was plasma and radiation dominated. I would have to look into the details again to tell you more.<u></u><u></u></span></div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">As I am typing this I see John D giving a good answer as well.<u></u><u></u></span></div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Cheers, oh and thanks for the compliments about my paper. I will remove some typo’s and deal with some questions in a later edition this week.<u></u><u></u></span></div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Martin<u></u><u></u></span></div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></div><div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:navy" lang="DE">Dr. Martin B. van der Mark</span><span style="color:navy" lang="DE"><u></u><u></u></span></div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:navy">Principal Scientist, Minimally Invasive Healthcare</span><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:navy"><u></u><u></u></span></div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:navy"> <u></u><u></u></span></div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:navy">Philips Research Europe - Eindhoven</span><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:navy"><u></u><u></u></span></div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:navy">High Tech Campus, Building 34 (WB2.025)</span><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:navy"><u></u><u></u></span></div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:navy">Prof. Holstlaan 4</span><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:navy"><u></u><u></u></span></div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:navy">5656 AE  Eindhoven, The Netherlands</span><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:navy"><u></u><u></u></span></div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:navy">Tel: +31 40 2747548</span><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u><u></u></span></div></div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></div><div><div style="border-style:solid none none;border-top-color:rgb(181,196,223);border-top-width:1pt;padding:3pt 0in 0in"><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><b><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif"><span> </span>General [</span><a href="mailto:general-bounces+martin.van.der.mark=philips.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif">mailto:general-bounces+martin.van.der.mark=philips.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</span></a><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif">]<span> </span><b>On Behalf Of<span> </span></b>Chip Akins<br><b>Sent:</b><span> </span>zaterdag 4 juli 2015 14:38<br><b>To:</b><span> </span>'Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion'<br><b>Subject:</b><span> </span>Re: [General] Physics in 100 years according to Wilczek<u></u><u></u></span></div></div></div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><u></u> <u></u></div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span>Hi Martin<u></u><u></u></span></div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span> </span></div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span>Energy in space, which comprises light, has momentum, is affected by gravity, and when confined, can demonstrate all the observable effects of mass that fermions display.<u></u><u></u></span></div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span> </span></div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span>Light is affected by gravity, but a question for you, do you think that light also creates a gravitational field?  Does light contribute to the gravitation of the universe?<u></u><u></u></span></div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span> </span></div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span>Chip<u></u><u></u></span></div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span> </span></div><div><div style="border-style:solid none none;border-top-color:rgb(225,225,225);border-top-width:1pt;padding:3pt 0in 0in"><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><b><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span> </span>General [</span><a href="mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</span></a><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">]<span> </span><b>On Behalf Of<span> </span></b>Mark, Martin van der<br><b>Sent:</b><span> </span>Saturday, July 04, 2015 7:18 AM<br><b>To:</b><span> </span>David Mathes; Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion<br><b>Cc:</b><span> </span></span><a href="mailto:jgw@elec.gla.ac.uk" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">jgw@elec.gla.ac.uk</span></a><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><br><b>Subject:</b><span> </span>Re: [General] Physics in 100 years according to Wilczek<u></u><u></u></span></div></div></div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><u></u> <u></u></div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Dear David,<span> </span><u></u><u></u></span></div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">thanks for the reply.<u></u><u></u></span></div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">You have a preference regarding mass and energy that, indeed,  I definitely do not share.<u></u><u></u></span></div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">The essence is in fully grasping “light is heavy”. After that one will never accuse the photon of being massless and still having momentum, as if it were a mystery.<u></u><u></u></span></div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">You provide me with even more evidence that “light is heavy” is a paper that I should try to publish in a real Journal, not just a conference. It is, implicitly, the very basis of ALL the electron models people are proposing in this discussion group. By the way you are in the same league with Frank Wilzcek, regarding this point at least.<u></u><u></u></span></div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">For the coupling, I am sorry to let you down a bit, but you may have noticed the announcement of my second paper on topological solutions and 4-current. That will bring it closer.<u></u><u></u></span></div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Actually, one of the things required for the knots to be stable is some form of self-interaction that could be calculated from Hamilton’s principle, as a starting point see paper:<span> </span></span><a href="http://arxiv.org/abs/1211.6072" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">http://arxiv.org/abs/1211.6072</span></a><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">, another essential ingredient for particles made out of pure fields.<u></u><u></u></span></div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Then of course it is perfectly well allowed to come up with your own idea, and I would be very interested. The answer remains elusive, still …<u></u><u></u></span></div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Very best regards,<u></u><u></u></span></div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Martin<u></u><u></u></span></div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></div><div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:navy" lang="DE">Dr. Martin B. van der Mark</span><span style="color:navy" lang="DE"><u></u><u></u></span></div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:navy">Principal Scientist, Minimally Invasive Healthcare</span><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:navy"><u></u><u></u></span></div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:navy"> <u></u><u></u></span></div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:navy">Philips Research Europe - Eindhoven</span><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:navy"><u></u><u></u></span></div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:navy">High Tech Campus, Building 34 (WB2.025)</span><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:navy"><u></u><u></u></span></div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:navy">Prof. Holstlaan 4</span><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:navy"><u></u><u></u></span></div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:navy">5656 AE  Eindhoven, The Netherlands</span><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:navy"><u></u><u></u></span></div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:navy">Tel: +31 40 2747548</span><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u><u></u></span></div></div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"> </span></div><div><div style="border-style:solid none none;border-top-color:rgb(181,196,223);border-top-width:1pt;padding:3pt 0in 0in"><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><b><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif"><span> </span>General [</span><a href="mailto:general-bounces+martin.van.der.mark=philips.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif">mailto:general-bounces+martin.van.der.mark=philips.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</span></a><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif">]<span> </span><b>On Behalf Of<span> </span></b>David Mathes<br><b>Sent:</b><span> </span>vrijdag 3 juli 2015 19:58<br><b>To:</b><span> </span>Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion<br><b>Cc:</b><span> </span></span><a href="mailto:jgw@elec.gla.ac.uk" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif">jgw@elec.gla.ac.uk</span></a><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif"><br><b>Subject:</b><span> </span>Re: [General] Physics in 100 years according to Wilczek<u></u><u></u></span></div></div></div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><u></u> <u></u></div><div><div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif;background-color:white"><span style="font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif">Martin</span><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></div></div><div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif;background-color:white"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif"> </span></div></div><div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif;background-color:white"><span style="font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif">A very stuffy paper. </span><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></div></div><div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif;background-color:white"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif"> </span></div></div><div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif;background-color:white"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif">Mass and energy equivalence in this paper seems a bit one sided as if mass dominates the universe, a thoroughly Machian view. Except Machian is not a local view.  </span><span style="font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif">While I enjoy the Machian view that this paper and Rañada's work provide , </span><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif">the difficulty is the mass-energy relationship you have proposed seems a bit one sided as if mass reigned supreme above energy. </span><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></div></div><div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif;background-color:white"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif"> </span></div></div><div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif;background-color:white"><span style="font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif">p. 2  all energy has the same “essence”: it is mass<span> </span></span><span style="font-family:'Cambria Math',serif">𝑚</span><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></div></div><div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif;background-color:white"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif"> </span></div></div><div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif;background-color:white"><span style="font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif">I prefer to thing the opposite. All mass has the same essence which is energy, not that all energy has mass. </span><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif">Mass is simply a special case of energy density or energy-momentum. After all, a massless photon has momentum.</span><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></div></div><div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif;background-color:white"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif"> </span></div></div><div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif;background-color:white"><span style="font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif">The flavors of mass need some clarity not addressed - gravitational, inertia, EM, and quantum. If one insists on using the strong force for an an example, then add strong mass. </span><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif">As to coupling, I was hoping that the level and type of coupling would have been addressed if only as a prelude to working with multiphysics programs such as COMSOL. </span><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></div></div><div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif;background-color:white"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif"> </span></div></div><div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif;background-color:white"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif">David<u></u><u></u></span></div></div><blockquote style="border-style:none none none solid;border-left-color:rgb(16,16,255);border-left-width:1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4pt;margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:3.75pt;margin-bottom:5pt" type="cite"><div><div><div><div class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif;text-align:center;background-color:white;background-repeat:initial initial" align="center"><span style="font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif"><hr align="center" size="1" width="100%"></span></div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif;background-color:white"><b><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif"><span> </span>"Mark, Martin van der" <</span><a href="mailto:martin.van.der.mark@philips.com" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">martin.van.der.mark@philips.com</span></a><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">><br><b>To:</b><span> </span>David Mathes <</span><a href="mailto:davidmathes8@yahoo.com" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">davidmathes8@yahoo.com</span></a><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">>; Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion <</span><a href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</span></a><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">><span> </span><br><b>Cc:</b><span> </span>"</span><a href="mailto:jgw@elec.gla.ac.uk" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">jgw@elec.gla.ac.uk</span></a><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">" <</span><a href="mailto:jgw@elec.gla.ac.uk" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">jgw@elec.gla.ac.uk</span></a><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif">><span> </span><br><b>Sent:</b><span> </span>Thursday, July 2, 2015 8:44 AM<br><b>Subject:</b><span> </span>Re: [General] Physics in 100 years according to Wilczek</span><span style="font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></div></div><div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif;background-color:white"><span style="font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif"> </span></div><div><div><div><div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif;background-color:white"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif">David,</span><span style="font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></div></div><div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif;background-color:white"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif">As promised, my paper. This is the philosophical one.<br>Protons and electrons are built from a continuous light-speed circulation of energy. That energy must take part in at least the electromagnetic interaction. Perhaps it is just  knotted light? In any case, quarks, gluons, strings, super-symmetrical particles, Planck-scale physics: all bullshit…well not entirely; the quark symmetry is there and should be there.</span><span style="font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></div></div><div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif;background-color:white"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif"> </span><span style="font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></div></div><div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif;background-color:white"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif">The other one paper is pure mathematics and it shows how Maxwell’s equation support topological solutions (knots of fields) that may be charged, and how the knots are behaving as quantum mechanical objects (the knots are also solutions to the Dirac or Klein-Gordon equation), I am in the process of drafting the text around it. A non-linear condition makes that the solutions must also obey a null-condition (invariant, being a proper spinor). All that together with the winding numbers of the knots should give enough conditions to select out only a minor number of possibilities to survive…haven’t proven that yet.</span><span style="font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></div></div><div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif;background-color:white"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif">I will sent this second one in a few weeks time… actually it should be ready in two…</span><span style="font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></div></div><div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif;background-color:white"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif">Cheers, Martin</span><span style="font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></div></div><div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif;background-color:white"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif"> </span><span style="font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></div></div><div><div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif;background-color:white"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif" lang="DE">Dr. Martin B. van der Mark</span><span style="font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></div></div><div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif;background-color:white"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif">Principal Scientist, Minimally Invasive Healthcare</span><span style="font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></div></div><div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif;background-color:white"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif"> </span><span style="font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></div></div><div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif;background-color:white"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif">Philips Research Europe - Eindhoven</span><span style="font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></div></div><div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif;background-color:white"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif">High Tech Campus, Building 34 (WB2.025)</span><span style="font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></div></div><div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif;background-color:white"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif">Prof. Holstlaan 4</span><span style="font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></div></div><div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif;background-color:white"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif">5656 AE  Eindhoven, The Netherlands</span><span style="font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></div></div><div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif;background-color:white"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif">Tel: +31 40 2747548</span><span style="font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></div></div></div><div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif;background-color:white"><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif"> </span><span style="font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></div></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 12pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif;background-color:white;background-repeat:initial initial"><span style="font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif"> </span></p></div><div><div><div style="border-style:solid none none;border-top-color:rgb(181,196,223);border-top-width:1pt;padding:3pt 0in 0in"><div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif;background-color:white"><b><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif"><span> </span>General [</span><a href="mailto:general-bounces+martin.van.der.mark=philips.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif">mailto:general-bounces+martin.van.der.mark=philips.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</span></a><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif">]<span> </span><b>On Behalf Of<span> </span></b>David Mathes<br><b>Sent:</b><span> </span>donderdag 2 juli 2015 2:59<br><b>To:</b><span> </span>Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion<br><b>Subject:</b><span> </span>[General] Physics in 100 years according to Wilczek</span><span style="font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></div></div></div></div><div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif;background-color:white"><span style="font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif"> <u></u><u></u></span></div></div><div><div><div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif;background-color:white"><span style="font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif"> <u></u><u></u></span></div></div></div><div><div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif;background-color:white"><span style="font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif"> <u></u><u></u></span></div></div></div><div><div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif;background-color:white"><span style="font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif">All, <u></u><u></u></span></div></div></div><div><div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif;background-color:white"><span style="font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif"> <u></u><u></u></span></div></div></div><div><div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif;background-color:white"><span style="font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif">As I look at all these different models of the electron, we have all carefully grasped the elephant somewhere on the outside in an attempt to figure out what's on the inside. In our quest to determine the heart of the electron, we have compared present day notes in hopes of future results. So any description of the elephant called electron can be reduced to a series of experimental results that already exist and a limits can be placed to confine any model to reasonableness.<u></u><u></u></span></div></div></div><div><div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif;background-color:white"><span style="font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif"> <u></u><u></u></span></div></div></div><div><div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif;background-color:white"><span style="font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif">Mirror, mirror, on the wall, who is the fairest...oh, forget that. What I want to know...what does the future hold for quantum and quanta and is there at least a roadmap in physics.<u></u><u></u></span></div></div></div><div><div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif;background-color:white"><span style="font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif">Specifically, w</span><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif">hat does the future hold in terms of photon models and photon-based electrons? </span><span style="font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></div></div></div><div><div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif;background-color:white"><span style="font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif"> <u></u><u></u></span></div></div></div><div><div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif;background-color:white"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif">That is a question open to interpretation but Wilczek at least provides a framework with a few directions in his paper published in March 2015.</span><span style="font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif">Summarized in a brief article on PBS website, Wilczek came out with a rather bold paper on musings and wishes available on Arxiv.<u></u><u></u></span></div></div></div><div><div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif;background-color:white"><span style="font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif"> <u></u><u></u></span></div></div></div><div><div><div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif;background-color:white"><span style="font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif">A quick article from PBS...from<u></u><u></u></span></div></div></div><div><div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif;background-color:white"><a href="http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/next/physics/in-100-years/" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank"><span style="font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif">How Physics Will Change—and Change the World—in 100 Years — NOVA Next | PBS</span></a><span style="font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></div></div></div><div><div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif;background-color:white"><span style="font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif"> <u></u><u></u></span></div></div></div><div><div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif;background-color:white"><span style="font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif">The full paper....<u></u><u></u></span></div></div></div><div><div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif;background-color:white"><a href="http://arxiv.org/pdf/1503.07735.pdf" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank"><span style="font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif">http://arxiv.org/pdf/1503.07735.pdf</span></a><span style="font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></div></div></div><div><div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif;background-color:white"><span style="font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif"> <u></u><u></u></span></div></div></div></div><div><div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif;background-color:white"><span style="font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif">The paper was a fun read in spite of the physics and mathematics involved. Here is one of my favorite quotes:<u></u><u></u></span></div></div></div><div><div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif;background-color:white"><span style="font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif"> <u></u><u></u></span></div></div></div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif;background-color:white"><b><i><span style="font-family:CMR10,serif">"When Leon Cooper, on behalf of Brown University, asked me to contribute to their 250</span></i></b><b><i><span style="font-family:CMTI8">th<span> </span></span></i></b><b><i><span style="font-family:CMR10,serif">anniversary by giving a talk </span></i></b><span style="font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></div></div></div><div><div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif;background-color:white"><b><i><span style="font-family:CMR10,serif">about the next 250 years of physics, I of course accepted immediately. Then I thought about it. I soon realized that </span></i></b><span style="font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></div></div></div><div><div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif;background-color:white"><b><i><span style="font-family:CMR10,serif">I’d taken on a task that is way beyond me, or (I suspect) anyone else.  So as a first step I renormalized 250<span> </span></span></i></b><b><i><span style="font-family:CMSY10">→<span> </span></span></i></b><b><i><span style="font-family:CMR10,serif">100."</span></i></b><span style="font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div><div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif;background-color:white"><span style="font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif"> <u></u><u></u></span></div></div></div><div><div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif;background-color:white"><b><i><span style="font-family:CMR10,serif">"Here I indulge in wide-ranging speculations on the shape of physics, and technology closely related to physics, over the next one hundred years. </span></i></b><span style="font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></div></div></div><div><div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif;background-color:white"><b><i><span style="font-family:CMR10,serif">Themes include the many faces of unification, the reimagining of quantum theory, and new forms of engineering on small, intermediate, and large scales."</span></i></b><span style="font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></div></div></div><div><div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif;background-color:white"><span style="font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif"> <u></u><u></u></span></div></div></div><div><div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif;background-color:white"><span style="font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif">My take is that given the rapid advances in quantum computing, and Kurzweil's pending Singularity, we should  consider the Wilczek paper a roadmap good for at least 20 years. </span><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif">We should also consider this paper somewhat as guidance to modeling photon and electron.</span><span style="font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></div></div></div><div><div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif;background-color:white"><span style="font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif"> <u></u><u></u></span></div></div></div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif;background-color:white"><span style="font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif">Before looking forward, Wilczek summarizes the history of physics and mathematics where there has been unification. In the computer industry including Apple, HP, IBM and Microsoft, unification is also called integration. And in finance, mergers and acquisitions. But I digress.<u></u><u></u></span></div></div></div><div><div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif;background-color:white"><span style="font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif"> <u></u><u></u></span></div></div></div><div><div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif;background-color:white"><span style="font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif">From history, Wilczek provide a summary of</span><b><i><span style="font-size:18pt;font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif"><span> </span>unification</span></i></b><span style="font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif"><span> </span>in specific fields. I'm sure there are others but these will do.<u></u><u></u></span></div></div></div><div><div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif;background-color:white"><span style="font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif"> <u></u><u></u></span></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div><div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif;background-color:white"><b><i><span style="font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif">"Names are attached not as credit but a shorthand for developments:</span></i></b><span style="font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></div></div></div><div><div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif;background-color:white"><span style="font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif"> <u></u><u></u></span></div></div></div><div><div><div><div><div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif;background-color:white"><b><i><span style="font-family:CMBX10">–<span> </span></span></i></b><b><i><span style="font-family:CMR10,serif">Unification of algebra and geometry (Descartes)</span></i></b><b><i><span style="font-family:CMR8"><br></span></i></b><b><i><span style="font-family:CMBX10">–<span> </span></span></i></b><b><i><span style="font-family:CMR10,serif">Unification of celestial and terrestrial physics (Galileo, Newton)<span> </span></span></i></b><b><i><span style="font-family:CMBX10">–<span> </span></span></i></b><b><i><span style="font-family:CMR10,serif">Unification of mechanics and optics (Hamilton)<br></span></i></b><b><i><span style="font-family:CMBX10">–<span> </span></span></i></b><b><i><span style="font-family:CMR10,serif">Unification of electricity, magnetism, and optics (Maxwell)<br></span></i></b><b><i><span style="font-family:CMBX10">–<span> </span></span></i></b><b><i><span style="font-family:CMR10,serif">Unification of space and time (Einstein, Minkowski)<br></span></i></b><b><i><span style="font-family:CMBX10">–<span> </span></span></i></b><b><i><span style="font-family:CMR10,serif">Unification of wave and particle (Einstein, de Broglie) </span></i></b><span style="font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></div></div></div></div></div></div><div><div><div><div><div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif;background-color:white"><b><i><span style="font-family:CMBX10">–<span> </span></span></i></b><b><i><span style="font-family:CMR10,serif">Unification of reasoning and calculation (Boole, Turing) </span></i></b><span style="font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></div></div></div><div><div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif;background-color:white"><span style="font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif"> <u></u><u></u></span></div></div></div><div><div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif;background-color:white"><b><i><span style="font-family:CMR10,serif">end"</span></i></b><span style="font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></div></div></div><div><div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif;background-color:white"><span style="font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif"> <u></u><u></u></span></div></div></div><div><div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif;background-color:white"><span style="font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif">So he continues on the theme of unification with the Standard Model and eventually leads us into Supersymmetry (SUSY). <u></u><u></u></span></div></div></div><div><div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif;background-color:white"><span style="font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif"> <u></u><u></u></span></div></div></div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif;background-color:white"><b><span style="font-family:CMR9">"<i>For reasons I’ve detailed in an Appendix, I think the most sensible procedure is to use “Standard Model” in its original sense, to mean the electroweak theory only. "</i></span></b><span style="font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></div></div></div><div><div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif;background-color:white"><span style="font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif"> <u></u><u></u></span></div></div></div><div><div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif;background-color:white"><span style="font-family:CMR9">That's interesting since most of the electron models don't even mention electroweak and prefer classical or semi-classical form of EM. However, there are couple models that have the guts to go GUT and encompass the four basic forces (or five if one treats the B field separate from E) as well as declare there is a bottom, and it is spacetime. </span><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:CMR10,serif">As background, note that the Standard Model can typically be summarized using symmetry groups as </span><span style="font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif;background-color:white"><span style="font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif"> <u></u><u></u></span></div></div></div><div><div><div><div><div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif;background-color:white"><span style="font-family:CMMI10">SU</span><span style="font-family:CMR10,serif">(3) </span><span style="font-family:CMSY10">× </span><span style="font-family:CMMI10">SU</span><span style="font-family:CMR10,serif">(2) </span><span style="font-family:CMSY10">× </span><span style="font-family:CMMI10">U</span><span style="font-family:CMR10,serif">(1) </span><span style="font-family:CMSY10">× </span><span style="font-family:CMMI10">SO</span><span style="font-family:CMR10,serif">(3</span><span style="font-family:CMMI10">,</span><span style="font-family:CMR10,serif">1)</span><span style="font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></div></div></div><div><div><div><div><div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif;background-color:white"><span style="font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif"> <u></u><u></u></span></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div><div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif;background-color:white"><span style="font-family:CMR10,serif">Keep in mind that Barrett using the appropriate extensions to Maxwell's equations (Maxwell 20)  confines his "Topological Electromagnistim" to</span><span style="font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></div></div></div><div><div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif;background-color:white"><span style="font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif"> <u></u><u></u></span></div></div></div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 12pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif;background-color:white;background-repeat:initial initial"><span style="font-family:CMMI10">EM only ... SU</span><span style="font-family:CMR10,serif">(3) </span><span style="font-family:CMSY10">× </span><span style="font-family:CMMI10">SU</span><span style="font-family:CMR10,serif">(2) </span><span style="font-family:CMSY10">× </span><span style="font-family:CMMI10">U</span><span style="font-family:CMR10,serif">(1)</span><span style="font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p></div></div><div><div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif;background-color:white"><span style="font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif"> <u></u><u></u></span></div></div></div><div><div><div><div><div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif;background-color:white"><b><span style="font-family:TimesNewRomanPS">Topological Foundations of Electromagnetism </span></b><span style="font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></div></div></div></div></div></div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 12pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif;background-color:white;background-repeat:initial initial"><a href="http://aflb.ensmp.fr/AFLB-26j/aflb26jp055.pdf" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank"><span style="font-family:CMR10,serif">http://aflb.ensmp.fr/AFLB-26j/aflb26jp055.pdf</span></a><span style="font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></p></div></div><div><div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif;background-color:white"><span style="font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif"> <u></u><u></u></span></div></div></div><div><div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif;background-color:white"><span style="font-family:CMR10,serif">I have two noteworthy additions to the SM.  Electrons can be spin coupled, and there is the question of phat photons, So I've wondered if the proper investigative path might be</span><span style="font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></div></div></div><div><div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif;background-color:white"><span style="font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif"> <u></u><u></u></span></div></div></div><div><div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif;background-color:white"><span style="font-family:CMMI10">N^2 hv == SU(4) X SU</span><span style="font-family:CMR10,serif">(3) </span><span style="font-family:CMSY10">× </span><span style="font-family:CMMI10">SU</span><span style="font-family:CMR10,serif">(2) </span><span style="font-family:CMSY10">× </span><span style="font-family:CMMI10">U</span><span style="font-family:CMR10,serif">(1) </span><span style="font-family:CMSY10">× </span><span style="font-family:CMMI10">SO</span><span style="font-family:CMR10,serif">(3</span><span style="font-family:CMMI10">,</span><span style="font-family:CMR10,serif">1)</span><span style="font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></div></div></div><div><div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif;background-color:white"><span style="font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif"> <u></u><u></u></span></div></div></div><div><div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif;background-color:white"><span style="font-family:CMR10,serif">Any comment or correction on this view may be of help. And yes, I have seen the equations of the universe.</span><span style="font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></div></div></div><div><div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif;background-color:white"><span style="font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif"> <u></u><u></u></span></div></div></div><div><div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif;background-color:white"><span style="font-family:CMR10,serif">From Sean Carroll</span><span style="font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></div></div></div><div><div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif;background-color:white"><a href="http://www.preposterousuniverse.com/blog/2013/01/04/the-world-of-everyday-experience-in-one-equation/" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank"><span style="font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif">The World of Everyday Experience, In One Equation</span></a><span style="font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></div></div></div><div style="margin-top:3.75pt;margin-bottom:3.75pt"><table style="border-collapse:collapse" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr><td colspan="8" style="background-color:rgb(229,229,229);padding:0in;background-repeat:initial initial"><div><div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span style="font-size:1pt"> </span><u></u><u></u></div></div></div></td></tr><tr><td rowspan="5" style="width:0.75pt;background-color:rgb(229,229,229);padding:0in;background-repeat:initial initial" width="1"><div><div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span style="font-size:1pt"> </span><u></u><u></u></div></div></div></td><td rowspan="5" style="width:1.75in;background-color:black;padding:0in;min-height:168px;background-repeat:initial initial" width="168"><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif;text-align:center"><a href="http://www.preposterousuniverse.com/blog/2013/01/04/the-world-of-everyday-experience-in-one-equation/" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank"><span style="text-decoration:none"><img src="http://www.preposterousuniverse.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Everyday-Equation-1024x353.jpg" alt="image" height="58" border="0" width="168"></span></a><u></u><u></u></div></td><td rowspan="5" style="width:0.75pt;background-color:rgb(229,229,229);padding:0in;background-repeat:initial initial" width="1"><div><div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span style="font-size:1pt"> </span><u></u><u></u></div></div></div></td><td rowspan="5" style="width:10.5pt;padding:0in" width="14"><div><div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span style="font-size:14pt"> </span><u></u><u></u></div></div></div></td><td colspan="2" style="padding:0in;min-height:6px"><div><div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span style="font-size:6pt"> </span><u></u><u></u></div></div></div></td><td rowspan="5" style="width:15pt;padding:0in" width="20"><div><div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span style="font-size:20pt"> </span><u></u><u></u></div></div></div></td><td rowspan="5" style="width:0.75pt;background-color:rgb(229,229,229);padding:0in;background-repeat:initial initial" width="1"><div><div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span style="font-size:1pt"> </span><u></u><u></u></div></div></div></td></tr><tr><td colspan="2" style="width:213.75pt;padding:0in" width="285"><div><div><div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif;line-height:12.4pt"><a href="http://www.preposterousuniverse.com/blog/2013/01/04/the-world-of-everyday-experience-in-one-equation/" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:13.5pt">The World of Everyday Experience, In One Equation</span></a><u></u><u></u></div></div><div><div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif;line-height:15pt"><span style="font-size:10pt;color:rgb(153,153,153)">Longtime readers know I feel strongly that it should be more widely appreciated that the laws underlying the physics of everyday life are completely understood. (If...</span><u></u><u></u></div></div></div></div></div></td></tr><tr><td colspan="2" style="padding:0in;min-height:4px"></td></tr><tr><td style="padding:0in"><div><div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><a href="http://www.preposterousuniverse.com/blog/2013/01/04/the-world-of-everyday-experience-in-one-equation/" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:7pt;color:rgb(153,153,153)">View on <b>www.preposterousuni...</b></span></a><u></u><u></u></div></div></div></td><td style="width:75pt;padding:0in" width="100"><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif;text-align:right;line-height:8.25pt"><span style="font-size:7pt">Preview by Yahoo</span><u></u><u></u></div></td></tr><tr><td colspan="2" style="padding:0in;min-height:9px"></td></tr><tr><td colspan="8" style="background-color:rgb(229,229,229);padding:0in;min-height:1px;background-repeat:initial initial"><div><div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif"><span style="font-size:1pt"> </span><u></u><u></u></div></div></div></td></tr><tr><td style="width:0.75pt;padding:0in" width="1"></td><td style="width:1.75in;padding:0in" width="168"></td><td style="width:0.75pt;padding:0in" width="1"></td><td style="width:10.5pt;padding:0in" width="14"></td><td style="width:126.75pt;padding:0in" width="169"></td><td style="width:87pt;padding:0in" width="116"></td><td style="width:15pt;padding:0in" width="20"></td><td style="width:0.75pt;padding:0in" width="1"></td></tr></tbody></table></div><div><div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif;background-color:white"><span style="font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif"> <u></u><u></u></span></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div><div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif;background-color:white"><span style="font-family:CMR10,serif">So as I look at the various models for this SPIE conference, I wonder what is the next unification?</span><span style="font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></div></div></div><div><div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif;background-color:white"><span style="font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif"> <u></u><u></u></span></div></div></div><div><div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif;background-color:white"><span style="font-family:CMR10,serif">Could Unification of the photon and electron be next?</span><span style="font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></div></div></div><div><div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif;background-color:white"><span style="font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif"> <u></u><u></u></span></div></div></div><div><div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif;background-color:white"><span style="font-family:CMR10,serif">Perhaps a topological description of inside the electron? </span><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:CMR10,serif">Or could it be the unification of spacetime and waves that provides the key insight and breakthrough? </span><span style="font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></div></div></div><div><div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif;background-color:white"><span style="font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif"> <u></u><u></u></span></div></div></div><div><div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif;background-color:white"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:CMR10,serif">Could it be we need to rethink how we think about things, and perhaps relearn a new way on how we learn how to learn? </span><span style="font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></div></div></div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 12pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif;background-color:white;background-repeat:initial initial"><span style="font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif"> </span></p></div></div><div><div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif;background-color:white"><span style="font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif">And what is inside the photon?<u></u><u></u></span></div></div></div><div><div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif;background-color:white"><span style="font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif"> <u></u><u></u></span></div></div></div><div><div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif;background-color:white"><span style="font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif"> <u></u><u></u></span></div></div></div><div><div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif;background-color:white"><span style="font-family:CMR10,serif">Best Regards,</span><span style="font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></div></div></div><div><div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif;background-color:white"><span style="font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif"> <u></u><u></u></span></div></div></div><div><div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif;background-color:white"><span style="font-family:CMR10,serif">David</span><span style="font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></div></div></div></div></div></div><div><div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif;background-color:white"><span style="font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif"> <u></u><u></u></span></div></div></div></div></div></div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif;background-color:white"><span style="font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif"> </span></div><div class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif;text-align:center;background-color:white;background-repeat:initial initial" align="center"><span style="font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif"><hr align="center" size="2" width="100%"></span></div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif;background-color:white"><span style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:gray">The information contained in this message may be confidential and legally protected under applicable law. The message is intended solely for the addressee(s). If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, forwarding, dissemination, or reproduction of this message is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by return e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message.</span><span style="font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif"><u></u><u></u></span></div></div></div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif;background-color:white"><span style="font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif"> </span></div><div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman',serif;background-color:white"><span style="font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif">_______________________________________________<br>If you no longer wish to receive communication from the Nature of Light and Particles General Discussion List at<span> </span></span><a href="mailto:davidmathes8@yahoo.com" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank"><span style="font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif">davidmathes8@yahoo.com</span></a><span style="font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif"><br><a href="</span><a href="http://lists.natureoflightandparticles.org/options.cgi/general-natureoflightandparticles.org/davidmathes8%40yahoo.com?unsub=1&unsubconfirm=1" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank"><span style="font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif">http://lists.natureoflightandparticles.org/options.cgi/general-natureoflightandparticles.org/davidmathes8%40yahoo.com?unsub=1&unsubconfirm=1</span></a><span style="font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif">"><br>Click here to unsubscribe<br></a><u></u><u></u></span></div></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 12pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Tim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