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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>Hi Richard<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>It seems to me that in many ways we are saying the same thing, and perhaps only differ in a philosophical sense. But the physical difference dictated by the different philosophical approaches may become important as we proceed. Don’t know yet.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>All the energy is in the fields (waves), and there is either a thing (energy quantum), or a mechanism inherent in the fields which orchestrate their behavior.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>At the current time, I am of the opinion that the interaction of energy with space, creating fields which propagate at a finite velocity (waves), are fundamental, and that all forces are generated as a result of energy reacting with space, creating propagating fields.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>I think we already have experimental evidence that this may be the case. But due to our theoretical foundations, we have not yet fully understood and recognized the evidence before us.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>So in this sense (and many others) I agree with Chandra, that we need to find the clues to modify and replace a few of the “bricks” in our foundation.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>What I am currently working on is a look at aspects of field equations, in quaternion form, and using the speed of light and time as the scalar part of, for example, Maxwell’s partial (vector part only) quaternions. This is like putting in the velocity and reaction time of which Chandra spoke. It is interesting and has been enlightening so far, but still much to do. But this work has had me thinking of exactly what the difference is in our definition of an “energy quantum”, and so far I feel the behavior of an “energy quantum” as I understand your definition, is created by the fields themselves. But there remains the question which Chandra and Martin have raised about the inherent quantization, or lack thereof, of the photon itself, and if it is clearly quantized for high energy photons, how is this different in lower energy “photons”.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>Chip<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> General [mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Richard Gauthier<br><b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, July 14, 2015 11:26 AM<br><b>To:</b> Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [General] Physics in 100 years according to Wilczek<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Hi Chip,<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal> You say that electro-magnetic waves related to a photon or other so-called particles are "self-quantizing in specific ways”. The energy quantum doesn’t contain energy, it is not a container. It has energy E=hf depending on its frequency in a particular coordinate system, and different energy as viewed in a different moving coordinate system. I say that the energy quantum of any fundamental particle has specific attributes that create, organize, maintain the existence of and transform the different fundamental particles into other fundamental particles and combinations of particles. The energy quantum generates wave patterns with wavelength and frequency and momentum p=h/lambda and spin 1 or 1/2 to form elementary particles with particular attributes, like flavor or color of a particle or antiparticle. Do you say that the physical attributes of the electron, photon, neutrino, quark etc are all contained in their waves? If so how? Is there any way to experimentally distinguish between these two views, or are we talking metaphysics?<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> Richard<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Jul 14, 2015, at 5:46 AM, Chip Akins <<a href="mailto:chipakins@gmail.com">chipakins@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Hi Richard<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Yes, we differ, at this time, in or opinion on this point. I feel that the fields (waves)<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><b>contain all the energy</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>and are self-quantizing in specific ways, due to the interaction of energy with space. So I do not currently see the need of, or room for, an entity which you envision as an “energy quantum” to explain what we observe. It seems that is already taken care of with just the energy and space, fields and waves.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>In your view, does the energy quantum contain energy? If it does, where does this energy come from, is this energy in any way detectable? I ask this because it seems that all of the energy is already accounted for in the waves, leaving none for this little engine the “energy quantum”. If the energy quantum contains no energy, then how does it do its work? These issues, and about a dozen more, are what has led me to believe the “energy quantum” is not required for a complete description of the behavior of energy as it reacts with space, forming photons, and fermions.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Thoughts?<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Chip<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><div><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>From:</span></b><span class=apple-converted-space><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> </span></span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>General [</span><a href="mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</span></a><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>]<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><b>On Behalf Of<span class=apple-converted-space> </span></b>Richard Gauthier<br><b>Sent:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>Monday, July 13, 2015 7:38 PM<br><b>To:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion<br><b>Subject:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>Re: [General] Physics in 100 years according to Wilczek</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Chip,<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal> I like your description of the stuff or energy quantum of an electron or photon as having a center of action (particularly since “action” in physics has the dimensions of energy x time and also of angular momentum mvr which is the dimensions of Planck’s constant h). But I think the energy quantum GENERATES the quantum waves associated with the energy quantum, rather than IS these waves. Yet these waves from a single electron (charged photon) or uncharged photon have a kind of unity since these waves all evolved from a single energy quantum (the electron or the photon) and can manifest that energy quantum (electron or photon) again. For a single free electron or photon, these waves may go through two slits before interfering at a screen on the other side of the slits and predicting probabilistically where the electron or photon will be found on the other side. <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal> Richard<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Jul 13, 2015, at 7:09 AM, Chip Akins <<a href="mailto:chipakins@gmail.com"><span style='color:purple'>chipakins@gmail.com</span></a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Hi Richard<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Opinion: while it is probably useful to use the analogy that an electron is a confined photon, it is not really precisely correct. <span class=apple-converted-space> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Martin said in his paper on “stuff” principally the same thing I was thinking, that the electron has the same stuff in it that a photon has, but in a different configuration. It is the configuration of the stuff which makes it either an electron or a photon. The spin mode changes the topology of the inherent stuff. This stuff is the reaction of energy as it propagates through space. The stuff has a particular set of properties inherent, but specifically due to those inherent properties, also takes on properties depending on its spin mode. It has at least two different stable spin modes, but more likely three or four spin modes are possible when fully understood. These modes define the photon and the stable particles including the electron and proton.<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>In my opinion a photon behaves like a particle because the stuff in the photon has a center of action. And the photon behaves like a wave because it is not completely localized at a single point, but is a set of fields occupying space. So it is not like a regular wave, and it is not a particle in the conventional sense. The photon and electron share this wave/particle behavior, in that they both have a center of action, but are both comprised of fields which extend off into space. So because of the experimentally illustrated behavior of photons (and electrons) as they react with particles, I think there must be some level of quantization inherent in the photon itself which provides for the center of action.<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Space is able to propagate energy, and spin angular momentum. It seems that space itself may actually promote spin angular momentum, a form of energy propagation topology defining the center of action, and therefore a form of quantization.<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>I am coming to think that the transverse wave action of energy propagating through space causes a specific sort of polarization in space which further impacts the wave (and therefore field) topology. This type of polarization would tend to cause left and/or right spin components in the otherwise planar circular wave action in space.<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>So, since there is not time before the conference to rewrite my submission, I will have to address many of these issues in the next version. But in that version I will not be claiming that the electron is specifically a confined photon, for it is not. It is however made of the same stuff as a photon.<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Chip<o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>From:</span></b><span class=apple-converted-space><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> </span></span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>General [</span><a href="mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:purple'>mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</span></a><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>]<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><b>On Behalf Of<span class=apple-converted-space> </span></b>Richard Gauthier<br><b>Sent:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>Sunday, July 12, 2015 6:46 PM<br><b>To:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion<br><b>Subject:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>Re: [General] Physics in 100 years according to Wilczek</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Martin and Chip,<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal> In the second paragraph, first line of my previous email, please substitute "momentum p=h/lambda = gamma mc " for “momentum p=h/lambda = h/(gamma mc)" . The typo is corrected in the text below (so you can ignore the previous e-mail). Sorry for the typo.<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal> Richard<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Jul 12, 2015, at 4:32 PM, Richard Gauthier <<a href="mailto:richgauthier@gmail.com"><span style='color:purple'>richgauthier@gmail.com</span></a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Hello Martin and Chip,<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal> I’m in agreement with Martin (below) that a normal photon is not a particle and is not a wave. Chip may agree also on this point (or not?) A photon is an uncharged energy quantum (or quantum of energy) moving linearly at lightspeed and generating waves, with c=f lambda and having spin 1 hbar, energy E=hf and linear momentum p=h/lambda. We can call the photon's “stuff” energy or relativistic mass (I prefer “energy” as being preferable to "relativistic mass” but opinions differ.)<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal> When a photon's energy quantum is circulating in a circle or helix to form a resting or moving electron, the photon’s energy quantum also has c=f lambda, energy E=hf=gamma mc^2 and momentum p=h/lambda = gamma mc and moves at lightspeed along its circular or helical path and is generating waves. But now the photon's energy quantum has a rest mass 0.511MeV/c^2 , a spin of Sz =1/2 hbar and carries the charge -e of the electron. This is why I call it the charged photon model of the relativistic electron. I call it a charged photon because it has the charge of the electron -e, and moves circularly or helically at lightspeed and has E=hf and p=h/lambda like a photon, but now has the rest mass m= 0.511MeV/c^2 and spin 1/2 hbar of an electron. Well of course the charged photon model of an electron has charge -e, rest mass 0.511MeV/c^2, and spin 1/2 hbar because by hypothesis it IS an electron. I think that the burden of reasoned proof is on anyone with a circulating photon model of the electron who claims that their circulating photon continues to be uncharged, to have no rest mass and to have spin 1 hbar to explain how this can be, even though the circulating photon is forming an electron which has the electron’s rest mass, spin 1/2 and electric charge -e. <o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal> with best regards,<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal> Richard<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Jul 5, 2015, at 6:43 AM, Mark, Martin van der <<a href="mailto:martin.van.der.mark@philips.com"><span style='color:purple'>martin.van.der.mark@philips.com</span></a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>Dear Chip, thank you for that reply.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>Indeed, i also agree that the word "photon" has been used in different ways by me in the past. At present i do not even believe it is a particle!</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>It is simply the quantum of energy emitted and absorbed by matter in an interaction, the radiation fields are not quantized by themselves, but only as a result of the matter it is interacting with. So the title of the 1997 paper is a bit too suggestive talking about a localized photon (as if it is a particle of its own).</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>"The photon is a quantum of radiation, in energy and/or angular momentum, as it appears in an interaction between matter."</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>I am not sure that it is proper english though. ;-)</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>That same quantum appears to exist, as "stuff", in a different configuration, as an electron.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>Does this make sense?</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>I think so, and it is a position I take for the conference. Most of all it does not explain the photon, but it surely tells what it isn't: it is not a particle and not a wave!</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>Cheers, Martin<br><br>Verstuurd vanaf mijn iPhone</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt'><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'><br>Op 5 jul. 2015 om 15:14 heeft Chip Akins <</span><a href="mailto:chipakins@gmail.com"><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:purple'>chipakins@gmail.com</span></a><span style='font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>> het volgende geschreven:</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt;orphans: auto;text-align:start;widows: auto;-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;word-spacing:0px'><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Hi Richard<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>I am not having a problem understanding Martin’s position on the “mass” of the photon. His overall discussion seems perfectly coherent to me. While there might be some slightly “confusing” statements, when they are taken in the context of discussion in his “<u>Light is heavy</u>” paper I can see his points. For me the energy present in the photon is simply its total mass equivalence. But the photon possesses no “rest mass”.<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>But I really like Martin’s paper on stuff, because it also implies that perhaps the properties of the “confined photon” have been changed in certain ways so that we<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><i>might not be precisely correct in stating that an electron is a confined photon</i>. Upon confinement the “stuff” is now behaving differently. Yes the energy of the “stuff” is still there,<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><i>but is it still proper to call it a photon</i>? Perhaps for illustration purposes it is OK to call it a photon, but that should not be allowed to interfere with our understanding of what is actually happening. So in the electron, the “stuff”, due to its inherent properties, is now behaving in ways which it does not behave in photons. So that the electron, and photon, are different manifestations of the properties and configurations of “stuff”.<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Hi Andrew<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Envisioning the displacement of space to create fields probably helps to clarify where the energy is at all times. The total energy does not change during “oscillation”. Oscillation conserves energy. The total energy does not come and go, so I agree with Martin, that the total mass is also principally constant, and does not oscillate in and out of existence, or between positive and negative mass. In fact this is one of the principles that I believe we must preserve in any model for an electron or photon. The constancy of the energy present. As a wave propagates, in any medium, the total energy in the wave remains constant, (ignoring friction or other disturbances) so the mass equivalence of that wave remains constant.<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Chip<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>From:</span></b><span class=apple-converted-space><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> </span></span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>General [</span><a href="mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:purple'>mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</span></a><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>]<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><b>On Behalf Of<span class=apple-converted-space> </span></b>Richard Gauthier<br><b>Sent:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>Saturday, July 04, 2015 5:31 PM<br><b>To:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion<br><b>Subject:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>Re: [General] Physics in 100 years according to Wilczek</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Martin (and all)<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal> You say at the end of “Light is Heavy”: "<span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"TimesNewRoman",serif'>If the photon would be put to rest, its gravitational mass would equal its rest mass, and hence vanish.” </span> I think we can agree that the closest light can be to “rest” in a vacuum is if it traveling at light-speed in a closed circle (or at light-speed in a helix as seen from a moving frame) as in our electron models. I think the question “Does such a photon have a rest mass?” is fundamental to our electron models and I think it would be good if we were able to agree on a consistent answer that can be backed by rational arguments. I claim that this circulating (circularly or helically-moving) photon does have a constant rest mass (that of the electron) since it has energy E=gamma mc^2 but its average linear momentum is zero for a resting electron or p=gamma mv in the case of an electron moving with speed v (leading in either case to a calculation of rest mass m from the relativistic energy momentum equation E^2 = p^2 c^2 +m^2 c^4). Plus we know that an electron has a rest mass m so that the hypothetical photon composing the electron also must have the same rest mass m, whether the electron is moving or not. John W has indicated earlier (as I understood him) that this photon would not have a rest mass because the photon is moving at light-speed, but its confinement due to a pivot produces the rest mass of the electron. Martin seems to be saying in “Light is Heavy" that this circulating photon has a non-zero rest mass due to its self-confinement and so it is heavy. Are these two positions really different? Could both of you make a brief clarifying statement about this point, briefly summarizing your reasons, so we can see the level of our agreement or disagreement on this point? Also Chip, John D, John M, Vivian, Andrew?<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal> Richard<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><blockquote style='margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt'><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>On Jul 4, 2015, at 6:24 AM, Chip Akins <<a href="mailto:chipakins@gmail.com"><span style='color:purple'>chipakins@gmail.com</span></a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Thank you John D and Martin<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>This is what I also thought. Light must have a very small contribution to the universal gravitational field. After all, it is made of the same “stuff” as everything else.<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Chip<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>From:</span></b><span class=apple-converted-space><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> </span></span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>General [</span><a href="mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:purple'>mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</span></a><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>]<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><b>On Behalf Of<span class=apple-converted-space> </span></b>Mark, Martin van der<br><b>Sent:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>Saturday, July 04, 2015 8:13 AM<br><b>To:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion<br><b>Subject:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>Re: [General] Physics in 100 years according to Wilczek</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Hi Chip,</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Yes it does, but the total mass in all the radiation in the universe is far less than that of matter, in the present era. In the first 300.000 years after the big bang (whatever that was), the universe was plasma and radiation dominated. I would have to look into the details again to tell you more.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>As I am typing this I see John D giving a good answer as well.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Cheers, oh and thanks for the compliments about my paper. I will remove some typo’s and deal with some questions in a later edition this week.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Martin</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=DE style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:navy'>Dr. Martin B. van der Mark</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:navy'>Principal Scientist, Minimally Invasive Healthcare</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:navy'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:navy'>Philips Research Europe - Eindhoven</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:navy'>High Tech Campus, Building 34 (WB2.025)</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:navy'>Prof. Holstlaan 4</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:navy'>5656 AE Eindhoven, The Netherlands</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:navy'>Tel: +31 40 2747548</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'>From:</span></b><span class=apple-converted-space><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'> </span></span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'>General [</span><a href="mailto:general-bounces+martin.van.der.mark=philips.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:purple'>mailto:general-bounces+martin.van.der.mark=philips.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</span></a><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'>]<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><b>On Behalf Of<span class=apple-converted-space> </span></b>Chip Akins<br><b>Sent:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>zaterdag 4 juli 2015 14:38<br><b>To:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>'Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion'<br><b>Subject:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>Re: [General] Physics in 100 years according to Wilczek</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Hi Martin<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Energy in space, which comprises light, has momentum, is affected by gravity, and when confined, can demonstrate all the observable effects of mass that fermions display.<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Light is affected by gravity, but a question for you, do you think that light also creates a gravitational field? Does light contribute to the gravitation of the universe?<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Chip<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>From:</span></b><span class=apple-converted-space><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> </span></span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>General [</span><a href="mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:purple'>mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</span></a><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>]<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><b>On Behalf Of<span class=apple-converted-space> </span></b>Mark, Martin van der<br><b>Sent:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>Saturday, July 04, 2015 7:18 AM<br><b>To:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>David Mathes; Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion<br><b>Cc:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span></span><a href="mailto:jgw@elec.gla.ac.uk"><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:purple'>jgw@elec.gla.ac.uk</span></a><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'><br><b>Subject:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>Re: [General] Physics in 100 years according to Wilczek</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Dear David,<span class=apple-converted-space> </span></span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>thanks for the reply.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>You have a preference regarding mass and energy that, indeed, I definitely do not share.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>The essence is in fully grasping “light is heavy”. After that one will never accuse the photon of being massless and still having momentum, as if it were a mystery.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>You provide me with even more evidence that “light is heavy” is a paper that I should try to publish in a real Journal, not just a conference. It is, implicitly, the very basis of ALL the electron models people are proposing in this discussion group. By the way you are in the same league with Frank Wilzcek, regarding this point at least.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>For the coupling, I am sorry to let you down a bit, but you may have noticed the announcement of my second paper on topological solutions and 4-current. That will bring it closer.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Actually, one of the things required for the knots to be stable is some form of self-interaction that could be calculated from Hamilton’s principle, as a starting point see paper:<span class=apple-converted-space> </span></span><a href="http://arxiv.org/abs/1211.6072"><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:purple'>http://arxiv.org/abs/1211.6072</span></a><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>, another essential ingredient for particles made out of pure fields.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Then of course it is perfectly well allowed to come up with your own idea, and I would be very interested. The answer remains elusive, still …</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Very best regards,</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Martin</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span lang=DE style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:navy'>Dr. Martin B. van der Mark</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:navy'>Principal Scientist, Minimally Invasive Healthcare</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:navy'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:navy'>Philips Research Europe - Eindhoven</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:navy'>High Tech Campus, Building 34 (WB2.025)</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:navy'>Prof. Holstlaan 4</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:navy'>5656 AE Eindhoven, The Netherlands</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:navy'>Tel: +31 40 2747548</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'>From:</span></b><span class=apple-converted-space><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'> </span></span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'>General [</span><a href="mailto:general-bounces+martin.van.der.mark=philips.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:purple'>mailto:general-bounces+martin.van.der.mark=philips.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</span></a><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'>]<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><b>On Behalf Of<span class=apple-converted-space> </span></b>David Mathes<br><b>Sent:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>vrijdag 3 juli 2015 19:58<br><b>To:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion<br><b>Cc:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span></span><a href="mailto:jgw@elec.gla.ac.uk"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif;color:purple'>jgw@elec.gla.ac.uk</span></a><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif'><br><b>Subject:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>Re: [General] Physics in 100 years according to Wilczek</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal> <o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div><div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1435942677697_6735"><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>Martin</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1435942677697_6735"><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1435942677697_6735"><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>A very stuffy paper. </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1435942677697_6735"><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1435942677697_6735"><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>Mass and energy equivalence in this paper seems a bit one sided as if mass dominates the universe, a thoroughly Machian view. Except Machian is not a local view. </span><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>While I enjoy the Machian view that this paper and Rañada's work provide , </span><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>the difficulty is the mass-energy relationship you have proposed seems a bit one sided as if mass reigned supreme above energy. </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1435942677697_6735"><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1435942677697_6735"><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>p. 2 all energy has the same “essence”: it is mass<span class=apple-converted-space> </span></span><span style='font-family:"Cambria Math",serif'>𝑚</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1435942677697_6948"><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1435942677697_6870"><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>I prefer to thing the opposite. All mass has the same essence which is energy, not that all energy has mass. </span><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>Mass is simply a special case of energy density or energy-momentum. After all, a massless photon has momentum.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1435942677697_6882"><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1435942677697_6883"><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>The flavors of mass need some clarity not addressed - gravitational, inertia, EM, and quantum. If one insists on using the strong force for an an example, then add strong mass. </span><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>As to coupling, I was hoping that the level and type of coupling would have been addressed if only as a prelude to working with multiphysics programs such as COMSOL. </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1435942677697_7113"><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1435942677697_7113"><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>David</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #1010FF 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:3.75pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt' id="yui_3_16_0_1_1435942677697_7091"><div><div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1435942677697_7112"><div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center;background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'><hr size=1 width="100%" align=center></span></div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>From:</span></b><span class=apple-converted-space><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'> </span></span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>"Mark, Martin van der" <</span><a href="mailto:martin.van.der.mark@philips.com"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:purple'>martin.van.der.mark@philips.com</span></a><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>><br><b>To:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>David Mathes <</span><a href="mailto:davidmathes8@yahoo.com"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:purple'>davidmathes8@yahoo.com</span></a><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>>; Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion <</span><a href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:purple'>general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</span></a><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>><span class=apple-converted-space> </span><br><b>Cc:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>"</span><a href="mailto:jgw@elec.gla.ac.uk"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:purple'>jgw@elec.gla.ac.uk</span></a><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>" <</span><a href="mailto:jgw@elec.gla.ac.uk"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:purple'>jgw@elec.gla.ac.uk</span></a><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif'>><span class=apple-converted-space> </span><br><b id="yui_3_16_0_1_1435942677697_7371">Sent:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>Thursday, July 2, 2015 8:44 AM<br><b>Subject:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>Re: [General] Physics in 100 years according to Wilczek</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div><div><div><div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1435942677697_7114"><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>David,</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1435942677697_7096"><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>As promised, my paper. This is the philosophical one.<br>Protons and electrons are built from a continuous light-speed circulation of energy. That energy must take part in at least the electromagnetic interaction. Perhaps it is just knotted light? In any case, quarks, gluons, strings, super-symmetrical particles, Planck-scale physics: all bullshit…well not entirely; the quark symmetry is there and should be there.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1435942677697_7099"><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1435942677697_7101"><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>The other one paper is pure mathematics and it shows how Maxwell’s equation support topological solutions (knots of fields) that may be charged, and how the knots are behaving as quantum mechanical objects (the knots are also solutions to the Dirac or Klein-Gordon equation), I am in the process of drafting the text around it. A non-linear condition makes that the solutions must also obey a null-condition (invariant, being a proper spinor). All that together with the winding numbers of the knots should give enough conditions to select out only a minor number of possibilities to survive…haven’t proven that yet.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1435942677697_7103"><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>I will sent this second one in a few weeks time… actually it should be ready in two…</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1435942677697_7105"><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>Cheers, Martin</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1435942677697_7106"><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1435942677697_7108"><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1435942677697_7107"><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span lang=DE style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>Dr. Martin B. van der Mark</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1435942677697_7110"><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>Principal Scientist, Minimally Invasive Healthcare</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1435942677697_7115"><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1435942677697_7116"><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>Philips Research Europe - Eindhoven</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1435942677697_7561"><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>High Tech Campus, Building 34 (WB2.025)</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1435942677697_7562"><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>Prof. Holstlaan 4</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>5656 AE Eindhoven, The Netherlands</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1435942677697_7563"><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>Tel: +31 40 2747548</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1435942677697_7564"><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white;background-position:initial initial;background-repeat:initial initial'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1435942677697_7567"><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in' id="yui_3_16_0_1_1435942677697_7566"><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1435942677697_7565"><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>From:</span></b><span class=apple-converted-space><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'> </span></span><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>General [</span><a href="mailto:general-bounces+martin.van.der.mark=philips.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:purple'>mailto:general-bounces+martin.van.der.mark=philips.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</span></a><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>]<span class=apple-converted-space> </span><b>On Behalf Of<span class=apple-converted-space> </span></b>David Mathes<br><b>Sent:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>donderdag 2 juli 2015 2:59<br><b>To:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion<br><b>Subject:</b><span class=apple-converted-space> </span>[General] Physics in 100 years according to Wilczek</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div><div><div id="yiv5713156330yui_3_16_0_1_1435792424476_9091"><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></div><div id="yiv5713156330yui_3_16_0_1_1435792424476_9091"><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></div><div id="yiv5713156330yui_3_16_0_1_1435792424476_9091"><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>All, </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></div><div id="yiv5713156330yui_3_16_0_1_1435792424476_9091"><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></div><div id="yiv5713156330yui_3_16_0_1_1435792424476_9091"><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>As I look at all these different models of the electron, we have all carefully grasped the elephant somewhere on the outside in an attempt to figure out what's on the inside. In our quest to determine the heart of the electron, we have compared present day notes in hopes of future results. So any description of the elephant called electron can be reduced to a series of experimental results that already exist and a limits can be placed to confine any model to reasonableness.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></div><div id="yiv5713156330yui_3_16_0_1_1435792424476_9091"><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></div><div id="yiv5713156330yui_3_16_0_1_1435792424476_9091"><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>Mirror, mirror, on the wall, who is the fairest...oh, forget that. What I want to know...what does the future hold for quantum and quanta and is there at least a roadmap in physics.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></div><div id="yiv5713156330yui_3_16_0_1_1435792424476_9091"><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>Specifically, w</span><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>hat does the future hold in terms of photon models and photon-based electrons? </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></div><div id="yiv5713156330yui_3_16_0_1_1435792424476_9091"><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></div><div id="yiv5713156330yui_3_16_0_1_1435792424476_9091"><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>That is a question open to interpretation but Wilczek at least provides a framework with a few directions in his paper published in March 2015.</span><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>Summarized in a brief article on PBS website, Wilczek came out with a rather bold paper on musings and wishes available on Arxiv.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></div><div id="yiv5713156330yui_3_16_0_1_1435792424476_13852"><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></div><div id="yiv5713156330yui_3_16_0_1_1435792424476_12092"><div id="yiv5713156330yui_3_16_0_1_1435792424476_9091"><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>A quick article from PBS...from</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></div><div id="yiv5713156330yui_3_16_0_1_1435792424476_9091"><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><a href="http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/next/physics/in-100-years/" target="_blank"><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:purple'>How Physics Will Change—and Change the World—in 100 Years — NOVA Next | PBS</span></a><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></div><div id="yiv5713156330yui_3_16_0_1_1435792424476_9091"><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></div><div id="yiv5713156330yui_3_16_0_1_1435792424476_9091"><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>The full paper....</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></div><div id="yiv5713156330yui_3_16_0_1_1435792424476_9091"><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><a href="http://arxiv.org/pdf/1503.07735.pdf" target="_blank"><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:purple'>http://arxiv.org/pdf/1503.07735.pdf</span></a><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></div><div id="yiv5713156330yui_3_16_0_1_1435792424476_12460"><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div id="yiv5713156330yui_3_16_0_1_1435792424476_9091"><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>The paper was a fun read in spite of the physics and mathematics involved. Here is one of my favorite quotes:</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></div><div id="yiv5713156330yui_3_16_0_1_1435792424476_9091"><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></div><div id="yiv5713156330yui_3_16_0_1_1435792424476_11877"><div id="yiv5713156330yui_3_16_0_1_1435792424476_11876"><div id="yiv5713156330yui_3_16_0_1_1435792424476_11875"><div id="yiv5713156330yui_3_16_0_1_1435792424476_11874"><div id="yiv5713156330yui_3_16_0_1_1435792424476_11873"><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><b><i><span style='font-family:"CMR10",serif'>"When Leon Cooper, on behalf of Brown University, asked me to contribute to their 250</span></i></b><b><i><span style='font-family:CMTI8'>th<span class=apple-converted-space> </span></span></i></b><b><i><span style='font-family:"CMR10",serif'>anniversary by giving a talk </span></i></b><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></div><div id="yiv5713156330yui_3_16_0_1_1435792424476_11873"><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><b><i><span style='font-family:"CMR10",serif'>about the next 250 years of physics, I of course accepted immediately. Then I thought about it. I soon realized that </span></i></b><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></div><div id="yiv5713156330yui_3_16_0_1_1435792424476_11873"><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><b><i><span style='font-family:"CMR10",serif'>I’d taken on a task that is way beyond me, or (I suspect) anyone else. So as a first step I renormalized 250<span class=apple-converted-space> </span></span></i></b><b><i><span style='font-family:CMSY10'>→<span class=apple-converted-space> </span></span></i></b><b><i><span style='font-family:"CMR10",serif'>100."</span></i></b><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div id="yiv5713156330yui_3_16_0_1_1435792424476_9091"><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></div><div id="yiv5713156330yui_3_16_0_1_1435792424476_10091"><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><b><i><span style='font-family:"CMR10",serif'>"Here I indulge in wide-ranging speculations on the shape of physics, and technology closely related to physics, over the next one hundred years. </span></i></b><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></div><div id="yiv5713156330yui_3_16_0_1_1435792424476_10091"><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><b><i><span style='font-family:"CMR10",serif'>Themes include the many faces of unification, the reimagining of quantum theory, and new forms of engineering on small, intermediate, and large scales."</span></i></b><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></div><div id="yiv5713156330yui_3_16_0_1_1435792424476_13905"><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></div><div id="yiv5713156330yui_3_16_0_1_1435792424476_9091"><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>My take is that given the rapid advances in quantum computing, and Kurzweil's pending Singularity, we should consider the Wilczek paper a roadmap good for at least 20 years. </span><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>We should also consider this paper somewhat as guidance to modeling photon and electron.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></div><div id="yiv5713156330yui_3_16_0_1_1435792424476_9091"><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></div><div id="yiv5713156330yui_3_16_0_1_1435792424476_10095"><div id="yiv5713156330yui_3_16_0_1_1435792424476_10094"><div id="yiv5713156330yui_3_16_0_1_1435792424476_10093"><div id="yiv5713156330yui_3_16_0_1_1435792424476_10092"><div id="yiv5713156330yui_3_16_0_1_1435792424476_10091"><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>Before looking forward, Wilczek summarizes the history of physics and mathematics where there has been unification. In the computer industry including Apple, HP, IBM and Microsoft, unification is also called integration. And in finance, mergers and acquisitions. But I digress.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></div><div id="yiv5713156330yui_3_16_0_1_1435792424476_10091"><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></div><div id="yiv5713156330yui_3_16_0_1_1435792424476_10091"><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>From history, Wilczek provide a summary of</span><span class=apple-converted-space><b id="yiv5713156330yui_3_16_0_1_1435792424476_15382"><i id="yiv5713156330yui_3_16_0_1_1435792424476_15380"><span style='font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'> </span></i></b></span><b><i><span style='font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>unification</span></i></b><span class=apple-converted-space><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'> </span></span><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>in specific fields. I'm sure there are others but these will do.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></div><div id="yiv5713156330yui_3_16_0_1_1435792424476_10091"><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div id="yiv5713156330yui_3_16_0_1_1435792424476_9091"><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><b><i><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>"Names are attached not as credit but a shorthand for developments:</span></i></b><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></div><div id="yiv5713156330yui_3_16_0_1_1435792424476_9091"><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></div><div id="yiv5713156330yui_3_16_0_1_1435792424476_10189"><div id="yiv5713156330yui_3_16_0_1_1435792424476_10188"><div id="yiv5713156330yui_3_16_0_1_1435792424476_10187"><div id="yiv5713156330yui_3_16_0_1_1435792424476_10186"><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><b><i><span style='font-family:CMBX10'>–<span class=apple-converted-space> </span></span></i></b><b><i><span style='font-family:"CMR10",serif'>Unification of algebra and geometry (Descartes)</span></i></b><b><i><span style='font-family:CMR8'><br></span></i></b><b><i><span style='font-family:CMBX10'>–<span class=apple-converted-space> </span></span></i></b><b><i><span style='font-family:"CMR10",serif'>Unification of celestial and terrestrial physics (Galileo, Newton)<span class=apple-converted-space> </span></span></i></b><b><i><span style='font-family:CMBX10'>–<span class=apple-converted-space> </span></span></i></b><b><i><span style='font-family:"CMR10",serif'>Unification of mechanics and optics (Hamilton)<br></span></i></b><b><i><span style='font-family:CMBX10'>–<span class=apple-converted-space> </span></span></i></b><b><i><span style='font-family:"CMR10",serif'>Unification of electricity, magnetism, and optics (Maxwell)<br></span></i></b><b><i><span style='font-family:CMBX10'>–<span class=apple-converted-space> </span></span></i></b><b><i><span style='font-family:"CMR10",serif'>Unification of space and time (Einstein, Minkowski)<br></span></i></b><b><i><span style='font-family:CMBX10'>–<span class=apple-converted-space> </span></span></i></b><b><i><span style='font-family:"CMR10",serif'>Unification of wave and particle (Einstein, de Broglie) </span></i></b><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div><div><div><div id="yiv5713156330yui_3_16_0_1_1435792424476_10363"><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><b><i><span style='font-family:CMBX10'>–<span class=apple-converted-space> </span></span></i></b><b><i><span style='font-family:"CMR10",serif'>Unification of reasoning and calculation (Boole, Turing) </span></i></b><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></div><div id="yiv5713156330yui_3_16_0_1_1435792424476_10363"><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></div><div id="yiv5713156330yui_3_16_0_1_1435792424476_10363"><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><b><i><span style='font-family:"CMR10",serif'>end"</span></i></b><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></div><div id="yiv5713156330yui_3_16_0_1_1435792424476_10363"><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></div><div id="yiv5713156330yui_3_16_0_1_1435792424476_10363"><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>So he continues on the theme of unification with the Standard Model and eventually leads us into Supersymmetry (SUSY). </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></div><div id="yiv5713156330yui_3_16_0_1_1435792424476_10363"><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></div><div id="yiv5713156330yui_3_16_0_1_1435792424476_10569"><div id="yiv5713156330yui_3_16_0_1_1435792424476_10568"><div id="yiv5713156330yui_3_16_0_1_1435792424476_10567"><div id="yiv5713156330yui_3_16_0_1_1435792424476_10583"><div id="yiv5713156330yui_3_16_0_1_1435792424476_10582"><div id="yiv5713156330yui_3_16_0_1_1435792424476_10581"><div id="yiv5713156330yui_3_16_0_1_1435792424476_10580"><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><b><span style='font-family:CMR9'>"<i id="yiv5713156330yui_3_16_0_1_1435792424476_15086">For reasons I’ve detailed in an Appendix, I think the most sensible procedure is to use “Standard Model” in its original sense, to mean the electroweak theory only. "</i></span></b><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></div><div id="yiv5713156330yui_3_16_0_1_1435792424476_13958"><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></div><div id="yiv5713156330yui_3_16_0_1_1435792424476_13958"><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:CMR9'>That's interesting since most of the electron models don't even mention electroweak and prefer classical or semi-classical form of EM. However, there are couple models that have the guts to go GUT and encompass the four basic forces (or five if one treats the B field separate from E) as well as declare there is a bottom, and it is spacetime. </span><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"CMR10",serif'>As background, note that the Standard Model can typically be summarized using symmetry groups as </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div><div><div><div><div id="yiv5713156330yui_3_16_0_1_1435792424476_10091"><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></div><div id="yiv5713156330yui_3_16_0_1_1435792424476_10569"><div id="yiv5713156330yui_3_16_0_1_1435792424476_10568"><div id="yiv5713156330yui_3_16_0_1_1435792424476_10567"><div id="yiv5713156330yui_3_16_0_1_1435792424476_10566"><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:CMMI10'>SU</span><span style='font-family:"CMR10",serif'>(3) </span><span style='font-family:CMSY10'>× </span><span style='font-family:CMMI10'>SU</span><span style='font-family:"CMR10",serif'>(2) </span><span style='font-family:CMSY10'>× </span><span style='font-family:CMMI10'>U</span><span style='font-family:"CMR10",serif'>(1) </span><span style='font-family:CMSY10'>× </span><span style='font-family:CMMI10'>SO</span><span style='font-family:"CMR10",serif'>(3</span><span style='font-family:CMMI10'>,</span><span style='font-family:"CMR10",serif'>1)</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></div><div id="yiv5713156330yui_3_16_0_1_1435792424476_10583"><div id="yiv5713156330yui_3_16_0_1_1435792424476_10582"><div id="yiv5713156330yui_3_16_0_1_1435792424476_10581"><div id="yiv5713156330yui_3_16_0_1_1435792424476_10580"><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div id="yiv5713156330yui_3_16_0_1_1435792424476_10091"><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"CMR10",serif'>Keep in mind that Barrett using the appropriate extensions to Maxwell's equations (Maxwell 20) confines his "Topological Electromagnistim" to</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></div><div id="yiv5713156330yui_3_16_0_1_1435792424476_10091"><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></div><div id="yiv5713156330yui_3_16_0_1_1435792424476_10091"><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='font-family:CMMI10'>EM only ... SU</span><span style='font-family:"CMR10",serif'>(3) </span><span style='font-family:CMSY10'>× </span><span style='font-family:CMMI10'>SU</span><span style='font-family:"CMR10",serif'>(2) </span><span style='font-family:CMSY10'>× </span><span style='font-family:CMMI10'>U</span><span style='font-family:"CMR10",serif'>(1)</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div id="yiv5713156330yui_3_16_0_1_1435792424476_10091"><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></div><div id="yiv5713156330yui_3_16_0_1_1435792424476_10344"><div><div><div id="yiv5713156330yui_3_16_0_1_1435792424476_14808"><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><b><span style='font-family:TimesNewRomanPS'>Topological Foundations of Electromagnetism </span></b><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div id="yiv5713156330yui_3_16_0_1_1435792424476_10091"><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><a href="http://aflb.ensmp.fr/AFLB-26j/aflb26jp055.pdf" target="_blank"><span style='font-family:"CMR10",serif;color:purple'>http://aflb.ensmp.fr/AFLB-26j/aflb26jp055.pdf</span></a><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div id="yiv5713156330yui_3_16_0_1_1435792424476_10091"><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></div><div id="yiv5713156330yui_3_16_0_1_1435792424476_10091"><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"CMR10",serif'>I have two noteworthy additions to the SM. Electrons can be spin coupled, and there is the question of phat photons, So I've wondered if the proper investigative path might be</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></div><div id="yiv5713156330yui_3_16_0_1_1435792424476_10091"><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></div><div id="yiv5713156330yui_3_16_0_1_1435792424476_10091"><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:CMMI10'>N^2 hv == SU(4) X SU</span><span style='font-family:"CMR10",serif'>(3) </span><span style='font-family:CMSY10'>× </span><span style='font-family:CMMI10'>SU</span><span style='font-family:"CMR10",serif'>(2) </span><span style='font-family:CMSY10'>× </span><span style='font-family:CMMI10'>U</span><span style='font-family:"CMR10",serif'>(1) </span><span style='font-family:CMSY10'>× </span><span style='font-family:CMMI10'>SO</span><span style='font-family:"CMR10",serif'>(3</span><span style='font-family:CMMI10'>,</span><span style='font-family:"CMR10",serif'>1)</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></div><div id="yiv5713156330yui_3_16_0_1_1435792424476_10091"><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></div><div id="yiv5713156330yui_3_16_0_1_1435792424476_10091"><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"CMR10",serif'>Any comment or correction on this view may be of help. And yes, I have seen the equations of the universe.</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></div><div id="yiv5713156330yui_3_16_0_1_1435792424476_10091"><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></div><div id="yiv5713156330yui_3_16_0_1_1435792424476_10091"><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"CMR10",serif'>From Sean Carroll</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></div><div id="yiv5713156330yui_3_16_0_1_1435792424476_10091"><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><a href="http://www.preposterousuniverse.com/blog/2013/01/04/the-world-of-everyday-experience-in-one-equation/" target="_blank"><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;color:purple'>The World of Everyday Experience, In One Equation</span></a><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></div><div style='margin-top:3.75pt;margin-bottom:3.75pt'><table class=MsoNormalTable border=0 cellspacing=0 cellpadding=0 style='border-collapse:collapse'><tr><td colspan=8 style='background:#E5E5E5;padding:0in 0in 0in 0in;background-position:initial initial;background-repeat:initial initial'><div><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:1.0pt'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></td></tr><tr id="yiv5713156330yui_3_16_0_1_1435792424476_11603"><td width=1 rowspan=5 style='width:.75pt;background:#E5E5E5;padding:0in 0in 0in 0in;background-position:initial initial;background-repeat:initial initial'><div><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:1.0pt'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></td><td width=168 rowspan=5 style='width:1.75in;background:black;padding:0in 0in 0in 0in;min-height: 168px;background-position:initial initial;background-repeat:initial initial' id="yiv5713156330yui_3_16_0_1_1435792424476_11602"><p class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center'><a href="http://www.preposterousuniverse.com/blog/2013/01/04/the-world-of-everyday-experience-in-one-equation/" target="_blank"><span style='color:purple;text-decoration:none'><img border=0 width=168 height=58 id="_x0000_i1027" src="http://www.preposterousuniverse.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Everyday-Equation-1024x353.jpg" alt=image></span></a><o:p></o:p></p></td><td width=1 rowspan=5 style='width:.75pt;background:#E5E5E5;padding:0in 0in 0in 0in;background-position:initial initial;background-repeat:initial initial'><div><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:1.0pt'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></td><td width=14 rowspan=5 style='width:10.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'><div><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:14.0pt'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></td><td colspan=2 style='padding:0in 0in 0in 0in;min-height: 6px' id="yiv5713156330yui_3_16_0_1_1435792424476_14234"><div id="yiv5713156330yui_3_16_0_1_1435792424476_14233"><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:6.0pt'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></td><td width=20 rowspan=5 style='width:15.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 0in' id="yiv5713156330yui_3_16_0_1_1435792424476_11611"><div><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:20.0pt'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></td><td width=1 rowspan=5 style='width:.75pt;background:#E5E5E5;padding:0in 0in 0in 0in;background-position:initial initial;background-repeat:initial initial' id="yiv5713156330yui_3_16_0_1_1435792424476_14238"><div><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:1.0pt'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></td></tr><tr id="yiv5713156330yui_3_16_0_1_1435792424476_11610"><td width=285 colspan=2 style='width:213.75pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 0in' id="yiv5713156330yui_3_16_0_1_1435792424476_11609"><div id="yiv5713156330yui_3_16_0_1_1435792424476_10344"><div><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='line-height:12.4pt'><a href="http://www.preposterousuniverse.com/blog/2013/01/04/the-world-of-everyday-experience-in-one-equation/" target="_blank"><span style='font-size:13.5pt;color:purple'>The World of Everyday Experience, In One Equation</span></a><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div><div id="yiv5713156330yui_3_16_0_1_1435792424476_11606"><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='line-height:15.0pt'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;color:#999999'>Longtime readers know I feel strongly that it should be more widely appreciated that the laws underlying the physics of everyday life are completely understood. (If...</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></td></tr><tr><td colspan=2 style='padding:0in 0in 0in 0in;min-height: 4px'></td></tr><tr id="yiv5713156330yui_3_16_0_1_1435792424476_14241"><td style='padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'><div><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><a href="http://www.preposterousuniverse.com/blog/2013/01/04/the-world-of-everyday-experience-in-one-equation/" target="_blank"><span style='font-size:7.0pt;color:#999999'>View on <b>www.preposterousuni...</b></span></a><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></td><td width=100 style='width:75.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 0in' id="yiv5713156330yui_3_16_0_1_1435792424476_14240"><p class=MsoNormal align=right style='text-align:right;line-height:8.25pt'><span style='font-size:7.0pt'>Preview by Yahoo</span><o:p></o:p></p></td></tr><tr id="yiv5713156330yui_3_16_0_1_1435792424476_14244"><td colspan=2 style='padding:0in 0in 0in 0in;min-height: 9px' id="yiv5713156330yui_3_16_0_1_1435792424476_14243"></td></tr><tr id="yiv5713156330yui_3_16_0_1_1435792424476_14237"><td colspan=8 style='background:#E5E5E5;padding:0in 0in 0in 0in;min-height: 1px;background-position:initial initial;background-repeat:initial initial' id="yiv5713156330yui_3_16_0_1_1435792424476_14236"><div id="yiv5713156330yui_3_16_0_1_1435792424476_14235"><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:1.0pt'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></td></tr><tr><td width=1 style='width:.75pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'></td><td width=168 style='width:1.75in;padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'></td><td width=1 style='width:.75pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'></td><td width=14 style='width:10.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'></td><td width=169 style='width:126.75pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'></td><td width=116 style='width:87.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'></td><td width=20 style='width:15.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'></td><td width=1 style='width:.75pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 0in'></td></tr></table></div><div id="yiv5713156330yui_3_16_0_1_1435792424476_10091"><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div id="yiv5713156330yui_3_16_0_1_1435792424476_10344"><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"CMR10",serif'>So as I look at the various models for this SPIE conference, I wonder what is the next unification?</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></div><div id="yiv5713156330yui_3_16_0_1_1435792424476_14808"><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></div><div id="yiv5713156330yui_3_16_0_1_1435792424476_10344"><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"CMR10",serif'>Could Unification of the photon and electron be next?</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></div><div id="yiv5713156330yui_3_16_0_1_1435792424476_10344"><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></div><div id="yiv5713156330yui_3_16_0_1_1435792424476_10344"><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"CMR10",serif'>Perhaps a topological description of inside the electron? </span><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"CMR10",serif'>Or could it be the unification of spacetime and waves that provides the key insight and breakthrough? </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></div><div id="yiv5713156330yui_3_16_0_1_1435792424476_10344"><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></div><div id="yiv5713156330yui_3_16_0_1_1435792424476_10344"><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"CMR10",serif'>Could it be we need to rethink how we think about things, and perhaps relearn a new way on how we learn how to learn? </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></div><div id="yiv5713156330yui_3_16_0_1_1435792424476_10344"><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div id="yiv5713156330yui_3_16_0_1_1435792424476_10344"><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'>And what is inside the photon?</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></div><div id="yiv5713156330yui_3_16_0_1_1435792424476_10344"><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></div><div id="yiv5713156330yui_3_16_0_1_1435792424476_10344"><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></div><div id="yiv5713156330yui_3_16_0_1_1435792424476_10348"><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"CMR10",serif'>Best Regards,</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></div><div id="yiv5713156330yui_3_16_0_1_1435792424476_10348"><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></div><div id="yiv5713156330yui_3_16_0_1_1435792424476_10348"><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"CMR10",serif'>David</span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div id="yiv5713156330yui_3_16_0_1_1435792424476_9091"><div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'> </span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div><div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center;background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif'><hr size=2 width="100%" align=center></span></div><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:7.5pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:gray'>The information contained in this message may be confidential and legally protected under applicable law. 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