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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Dear Nick,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Thank you for your nice reply. I could listen to you telling about Pask’s philosophy for hours.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">About Abraham Minkowski, indeed a very annoying problem! Must be solved to get real understanding of electromagnetism and space-time together.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">My second, theoretical paper is slowly getting there and must be ready tomorrow….<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Very best, Martin<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy">Dr. Martin B. van der Mark</span><span lang="DE" style="color:navy"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy">Principal Scientist, Minimally Invasive Healthcare</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:navy"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:navy"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy">Philips Research Europe - Eindhoven</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:navy"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy">High Tech Campus, Building 34 (WB2.025)</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:navy"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy">Prof. Holstlaan 4</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:navy"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy">5656 AE Eindhoven, The Netherlands</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:navy"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy">Tel: +31 40 2747548</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:windowtext"> General [mailto:general-bounces+martin.van.der.mark=philips.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Nick Green<br>
<b>Sent:</b> dinsdag 14 juli 2015 1:39<br>
<b>To:</b> Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [General] final? update of one of my papers...<o:p></o:p></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Thank you Martin for a really nice paper. It confirmed much and took me that little bit further than I expected.<br>
<br>
Certainly a recursive hierarchy of electromagnetc vortices whose interactions account for observables. How to describe the topology and coherence energy of the resulting stuff is the nature of the problem.
<br>
<br>
On the interesting question does space produce physics or must we put stuff in space to produce physics Gordon Pask proposed space comprised voids (absolutely empty spave no virtual anything) and non-void (something) necessary for separation of boundaries to
exist. His version of wave particle dualism was stated "Every process produces a product and every product is produced by a process" Product/Proces duality in fact.
<br>
<br>
Add that at least two processes are needed to produce a product and that processes and products exist in a resonance. Pask spoke of at least two concept processes in resonance to produce a third where for him a concept was the internal state of an Actor (Stuff
as Martin has it) acquired through interactions with neighbours. <br>
<br>
He went further with his Exclusion principle "There are No Doppelgangers": in the limit (of precision) no two states are the same. This accounts for innovation over time for the forms produced by interaction. At least this may be an novel way of re-telling
the story of wave mechanics where like spins repel and unlike spins attract.<br>
<br>
Specifically the minimal space filling process/product resonance was represented by a Borromean Ring. The repulsive force of the major axis of each torus was replaced by a repulsive strut and when three struts were arranged in space (to create a non void) nine
tension strings were needed to create an equilibrium chiral prismatic tensegrity. This suggests there may be a three to one ratio theorem about attractions and repulsions or phase shifts for a wave filling space. OK conjecture over.<br>
<br>
There is clearly a general need for a better theory of coherence energy because of the depression of melting point phenomenon and possible objects like WIMPS. I still worry about the Abraham-Minkowski controversy. Nothing happens in our world until an photon
enters an electric field and we can't decide if the photon gains or loses momentum. It may not matter if photons bend forward or backward when field strength alters but it may one day.<br>
<br>
There's some wonderful things going on here and I wish you all well and please don't take your eye off the ball!<br>
<br>
Best<br>
<br>
N.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On 05/07/2015 21:50, Mark, Martin van der wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Dear all I am going to submit this paper to the conference in time before the deadline (the 15<sup>th</sup>), comments are still welcome.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Very best regards, Martin</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy">Dr. Martin B. van der Mark</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy">Principal Scientist, Minimally Invasive Healthcare</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:navy"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy">Philips Research Europe - Eindhoven</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy">High Tech Campus, Building 34 (WB2.025)</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy">Prof. Holstlaan 4</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy">5656 AE Eindhoven, The Netherlands</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy">Tel: +31 40 2747548</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> Mark, Martin van der
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> zondag 5 juli 2015 20:42<br>
<b>To:</b> Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion<br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [General] Physics in 100 years according to Wilczek</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Dear Richard,
</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">(Andrew you want to pay attention to this too!)</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Here is the continuation of my reply to your comments on my SPIE paper.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I have changed the text regarding your point 2 and 4 and will also do this for point 3.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Your calculation below is correct. More important is, the reason why it is; how the quantization condition is put in.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">What was wrong in the paper is that not only the orbital frequencies of proton and electron were taken equal (correctly) but also the De Broglie frequencies.
This leads to two quantization conditions that look very plausible, but it is wrong: both proton and electron De Broglie wavelengths fit on their own orbital around the center of mass.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">On closer examination I saw this appears to lead to trouble with the reduced mass and orbital angular momentum, things do not add up properly.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Right answer is:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">The conclusion is that the reduced mass, proton and electron orbital frequency are (all three) identical, as are the respective De Broglie wavelengths. The
total angular momentum is the sum of that of proton and electron and is, in the Bohr model, precisely hbar, as it should.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">This means, and that is somewhat puzzling if one imagines a circular orbit (instead of a radial breathing, which is going on in reality), that the De Broglie
wavelengths of both proton and electron do NOT fit on their circular orbit, but DO fit on the distance between them divided by pi! Both electron and proton act in such a way that they forget about the world around them and only see the other particle going
round them in a path of exactly the De Broglie wavelength.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">De Kinetic energy of the proton is less than the electron’s by their mass ratio.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Richard, well done, thank you very much indeed. I have put you in the acknowledgement of the paper, truly and totally deserved.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I will sent a new copy of the paper with all the changes and suggestions by you and others. No change in the results, but much better quality!</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Very best regards, Martin</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy">Dr. Martin B. van der Mark</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy">Principal Scientist, Minimally Invasive Healthcare</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:navy"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy">Philips Research Europe - Eindhoven</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy">High Tech Campus, Building 34 (WB2.025)</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy">Prof. Holstlaan 4</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy">5656 AE Eindhoven, The Netherlands</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy">Tel: +31 40 2747548</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> General [<a href="mailto:general-bounces+martin.van.der.mark=philips.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org">mailto:general-bounces+martin.van.der.mark=philips.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Richard Gauthier<br>
<b>Sent:</b> vrijdag 3 juli 2015 19:21<br>
<b>To:</b> Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [General] Physics in 100 years according to Wilczek</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Hi Martin,<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> Please scratch the previous derivation for KEp/KEe which had typos, though the result is the same. Here it is again: (a) Mp Rp = Me Re so Rp/Re = Me/Mp (b) KEe = 1/2 Me Re^2 Omega^2 and KEp = 1/2 Mp Rp^2 Omega^2 (c) KEp/KEe
= (Mp Rp^2)/(Me Re^2) (d) KEp/KEe = (Mp/Me) (Rp/Re)^2 = (Mp/Me) (Me/Mp)^2 = Me/Mp = 1/1836 <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> Richard<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Jul 3, 2015, at 9:53 AM, Richard Gauthier <<a href="mailto:richgauthier@gmail.com">richgauthier@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Martin, I meant Newton’t 3rd law.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> Richard<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Jul 3, 2015, at 9:52 AM, Richard Gauthier <<a href="mailto:richgauthier@gmail.com">richgauthier@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Hi Martin,<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> Thanks for your detailed reply to my comments. Looking forward to the next draft/final draft.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On point 3, Classical mechanics gives the proton in a hydrogen atom having Me/Mp = 1/1836 times the kinetic energy of the electron. This is derived from (a) Mp Rp = Me Re from conservation of momentum or Newton’s second law, where Rp and
Re are the distances of the proton and the electron from their common center of mass, and (b) KEe = 1/2 Me Re Omega^2 and KEp = 1/2 Mp Rp Omega^2 for the KE of the electron and the proton respectively as they revolve around their common stationary CM,
where Omega is their common angular velocity around their CM. From (b) this gives KEp/KEe = (Mp Rp^2)/(Me Re^2). Substituting Rp = Re (Me/Mp) from (a) into (b) gives KEp/KEe = Me/Mp = 1/1836 .<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> Richard<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Jul 3, 2015, at 2:14 AM, Mark, Martin van der <<a href="mailto:martin.van.der.mark@philips.com">martin.van.der.mark@philips.com</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Dear Richard,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Thank you very much for looking at the paper so thoroughly. Good questions too!</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">See below for answers,<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:red">in red</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Very best regards, martin</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy">Dr. Martin B. van der Mark</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy">Principal Scientist, Minimally Invasive Healthcare</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy">Philips Research Europe - Eindhoven</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy">High Tech Campus, Building 34 (WB2.025)</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy">Prof. Holstlaan 4</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy">5656 AE Eindhoven, The Netherlands</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy">Tel: +31 40 2747548</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span class="apple-converted-space"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> </span></span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">General
[<a href="mailto:general-bounces+martin.van.der.mark=philips.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"><span style="color:purple">mailto:general-bounces+martin.van.der.mark=philips.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</span></a>]<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><b>On
Behalf Of<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Richard Gauthier<br>
<b>Sent:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>vrijdag 3 juli 2015 1:12<br>
<b>To:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion<br>
<b>Subject:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [General] Physics in 100 years according to Wilczek</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Hi Martin,<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> Thanks for sending an advance draft of your first paper. I have a few comments:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-indent:-18.0pt">1)<span style="font-size:7.0pt"> <span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span>Near the end of the paper (p.10), referring to quarks in the proton you say “<span style="font-size:10.0pt">We have already
concluded that they can only fit within the proton if moving very fast, and that may be true for their De Broglie wavelength and orbital motion, but what about their own size, their Compton wavelength size? Too light, hence too big, and the proton would have
to be a hundred times larger than it is."</span> But the radius of the quark would also decrease with its speed, probably as 1/gamma, just as the electron does as seen in high energy electron scattering experiments. If the quark's speed is 0.999c as you say,
this gives a gamma of about 22.4. Quark masses in a proton are on average 3MeV each or 6 times the electron mass, so the Compton double-loop radius Rq of a resting quark, inversely proportional to the quark’s mass, would be 1/6 that of the electron’s characteristic
size Ro=1.9 x 10^-13m, i.e. Rq= (1.9 x 10^-13) / 6 or about 30 x 10^-15 m for a resting quark. And for a speeding quark, R= Rq/gamma = 1.3 x 10^-15 m— nearly the proton size, so a high speed quark could probably fit (with a somewhat higher quark velocity
than 0.999c, say 0.9995c with gamma=32) comfortably inside a proton.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:red">Very good question. First of all I am taking the point of view of conventional physics here, and hence I must be ignorant about quarks themselves perhaps being like light-speed knots as well. But since that notion
is seeping into the paper through the abstract and earlier sections, you are right and I also have to explain it from that point of view. Now there are two possibilities:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-indent:-18.0pt"><span style="color:red">a)</span><span style="font-size:7.0pt;color:red"> <span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span style="color:red">The quark is like the Williamson-van der Mark electron,
it is not knotted and may interact in a point-like fashion as indicated in the 1997Ann Fond L De Broglie paper. Then it will show the behavior you indicate: for its head-on interaction it seems to have shrunk to a small size.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-indent:-18.0pt"><span style="color:red">b)</span><span style="font-size:7.0pt;color:red"> <span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span style="color:red">The quark is a knot of light. Now it there will be extra
stresses when one lobe will be pulled in head-on interactions and no point-like interaction will occur. A proton has a real size associated to it: its charge radius, so then will the quark have a real size. This size will not scale as that for a photon, so
this ruled out.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-indent:-18.0pt"><span style="color:red">c)</span><span style="font-size:7.0pt;color:red"> <span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span style="color:red">The quark is just a lump of some mostly non-electromagnetic
basic stuff. Then its interaction doesn’t scale like that of a photon either. Ruled out.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:red">All of these possibility a), b) and c) are already excluded in the paper based on the ratio of kinetic energy and total energy, but suppose I made a mistake in my estimate and there is still just enough energy left
to make possibility a) true. Then you should realize that relativity does not realy make things shrink, it only makes things look to have shrunk in your frame, in the direction of motion.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:red">What I mean is best illustrated in the following way. Consider a quite heavy nucleus with many protons and neutrons together. Their distance<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span style="color:purple"><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_force">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_force</a></span><span style="color:#1F497D"> </span><span style="color:red">in
a nucleus is quite similar to the charge radius: 0.7-1.0 fm, which I call the size of the proton. Now if the quarks would be a 100 times larger, the proton would be too, and so would the nucleus have to be. In possibility a), only a head-on interaction process
would make them look small. This interaction between quarks of one nucleon and another is not taking place, see the remark on the bag model of the nucleus and non-fusion of the nucleon membrane.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:red">In relativity, objects do not really shrink, and usually do not even show it laterally to the direction of motion. It is all a matter of perspective (pun intended).</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:red">You see, it is not easy or obvious, it takes quite some text to explain. This means, at least in this case, that it is a good question you posed.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:red">I am not sure how to improve the paper regarding this point… leaving out the remark about the Compton wavelength size is one possibility….</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">2) On the top of page 4 you write “ <span style="font-size:10.0pt">Historically, in 1913, the quantization using De Broglie waves was the answer to Bohr’s postulated stability of electron orbits in his model of the Hydrogen atom."</span> De
Broglie gave his integer Bohr orbit de Broglie wavelength calculations in a journal article I believe in 1923 and again in his thesis in 1924.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:red">Yes I agree that this may be confusing since De Broglie came later than Bohr. I should formulate this a little better. Bohr just postulated the stability, then
came the explanation.<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">3) You say on p 7 last paragraph, that the kinetic energy in a hydrogen atom is shared equally between the proton and the electron. This is I think mistaken. Their momenta and de Broglie wavelengths are equal, but the electron will have
much more of the total KE based on KE = 1/2 mv^2 .<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:red">This is what I thought too, originally, but the equations tell another story, I will look at it again to make sure I didn’t make some mistake though…..can you find it? It doesn’t matter for the message of the paper
but whatever I say, it should be correct.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Also there is a typo above equation 5 on page 7: “where" not “were"<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:red">Thank you, will fix it!</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:red">I will send you an update once I have dealt with this.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> best regards,<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> Richard<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Jul 2, 2015, at 8:44 AM, Mark, Martin van der <<span style="color:purple"><a href="mailto:martin.van.der.mark@philips.com">martin.van.der.mark@philips.com</a></span>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">David,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">As promised, my paper. This is the philosophical one.<br>
Protons and electrons are built from a continuous light-speed circulation of energy. That energy must take part in at least the electromagnetic interaction. Perhaps it is just knotted light? In any case, quarks, gluons, strings, super-symmetrical particles,
Planck-scale physics: all bullshit…well not entirely; the quark symmetry is there and should be there.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">The other one paper is pure mathematics and it shows how Maxwell’s equation support topological solutions (knots of fields) that may be charged, and how the
knots are behaving as quantum mechanical objects (the knots are also solutions to the Dirac or Klein-Gordon equation), I am in the process of drafting the text around it. A non-linear condition makes that the solutions must also obey a null-condition (invariant,
being a proper spinor). All that together with the winding numbers of the knots should give enough conditions to select out only a minor number of possibilities to survive…haven’t proven that yet.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">I will sent this second one in a few weeks time… actually it should be ready in two…</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Cheers, Martin</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="DE" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy">Dr. Martin B. van der Mark</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy">Principal Scientist, Minimally Invasive Healthcare</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy">Philips Research Europe - Eindhoven</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy">High Tech Campus, Building 34 (WB2.025)</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy">Prof. Holstlaan 4</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy">5656 AE Eindhoven, The Netherlands</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:navy">Tel: +31 40 2747548</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span class="apple-converted-space"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> </span></span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">General
[</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:purple"><a href="mailto:general-bounces+martin.van.der.mark=philips.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org">mailto:general-bounces+martin.van.der.mark=philips.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a></span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">]<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><b>On
Behalf Of<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></b>David Mathes<br>
<b>Sent:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>donderdag 2 juli 2015 2:59<br>
<b>To:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion<br>
<b>Subject:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>[General] Physics in 100 years according to Wilczek</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"">All, </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"">As I look at all these different models of the electron, we have all carefully grasped the elephant somewhere on the outside in an attempt to figure out what's
on the inside. In our quest to determine the heart of the electron, we have compared present day notes in hopes of future results. So any description of the elephant called electron can be reduced to a series of experimental results that already exist and
a limits can be placed to confine any model to reasonableness.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"">Mirror, mirror, on the wall, who is the fairest...oh, forget that. What I want to know...what does the future hold for quantum and quanta and is there at least
a roadmap in physics.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"">Specifically, w</span><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"">hat does the future hold in terms of photon models and photon-based electrons? </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"">That is a question open to interpretation but Wilczek at least provides a framework with a few directions in his paper published in March 2015.</span><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"">Summarized
in a brief article on PBS website, Wilczek came out with a rather bold paper on musings and wishes available on Arxiv.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"">A quick article from PBS...from</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif""><a href="http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/next/physics/in-100-years/"><span style="color:purple">How Physics Will Change—and Change the World—in 100 Years — NOVA Next
| PBS</span></a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"">The full paper....</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif";color:purple"><a href="http://arxiv.org/pdf/1503.07735.pdf">http://arxiv.org/pdf/1503.07735.pdf</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif""> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"">The paper was a fun read in spite of the physics and mathematics involved. Here is one of my favorite quotes:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif""> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><b><i>"When Leon Cooper, on behalf of Brown University, asked me to contribute to their 250</i></b><b><i><span style="font-family:CMTI8">th<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span>anniversary by giving
a talk </i></b><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><b><i>about the next 250 years of physics, I of course accepted immediately. Then I thought about it. I soon realized that </i></b><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><b><i>I’d taken on a task that is way beyond me, or (I suspect) anyone else. So as a first step I renormalized 250<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></i></b><b><i><span style="font-family:CMSY10">→<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span>100."</i></b><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif""> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><b><i>"Here I indulge in wide-ranging speculations on the shape of physics, and technology closely related to physics, over the next one hundred years. </i></b><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><b><i>Themes include the many faces of unification, the reimagining of quantum theory, and new forms of engineering on small, intermediate, and large scales."</i></b><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif""> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"">My take is that given the rapid advances in quantum computing, and Kurzweil's pending Singularity, we should consider the Wilczek paper a roadmap good for at least
20 years. </span><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"">We should also consider this paper somewhat as guidance to modeling photon and electron.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif""> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"">Before looking forward, Wilczek summarizes the history of physics and mathematics where there has been unification. In the computer industry including Apple, HP,
IBM and Microsoft, unification is also called integration. And in finance, mergers and acquisitions. But I digress.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif""> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"">From history, Wilczek provide a summary of</span><span class="apple-converted-space"><b id="yui_3_16_0_1_1435792424476_15382"><i id="yui_3_16_0_1_1435792424476_15380"><span style="font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif""> </span></i></b></span><b><i><span style="font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"">unification</span></i></b><span class="apple-converted-space"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif""> </span></span><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"">in
specific fields. I'm sure there are others but these will do.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif""> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><b><i><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"">"Names are attached not as credit but a shorthand for developments:</span></i></b><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif""> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1435792424476_10188">
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><b><i><span style="font-family:CMBX10">–<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span>Unification of algebra and geometry (Descartes)</i></b><b><i><span style="font-family:CMR8"><br>
</span></i></b><b><i><span style="font-family:CMBX10">–<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span>Unification of celestial and terrestrial physics (Galileo, Newton)<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></i></b><b><i><span style="font-family:CMBX10">–<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span>Unification
of mechanics and optics (Hamilton)<br>
</i></b><b><i><span style="font-family:CMBX10">–<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span>Unification of electricity, magnetism, and optics (Maxwell)<br>
</i></b><b><i><span style="font-family:CMBX10">–<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span>Unification of space and time (Einstein, Minkowski)<br>
</i></b><b><i><span style="font-family:CMBX10">–<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span>Unification of wave and particle (Einstein, de Broglie) </i></b><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><b><i><span style="font-family:CMBX10">–<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span>Unification of reasoning and calculation (Boole, Turing) </i></b><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif""> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><b><i>end"</i></b><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif""> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"">So he continues on the theme of unification with the Standard Model and eventually leads us into Supersymmetry (SUSY). </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif""> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><b><span style="font-family:CMR9">"<i id="yui_3_16_0_1_1435792424476_15086">For reasons I’ve detailed in an Appendix, I think the most sensible procedure is to use “Standard Model” in its original sense, to mean
the electroweak theory only. "</i></span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif""> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:CMR9">That's interesting since most of the electron models don't even mention electroweak and prefer classical or semi-classical form of EM. However, there are couple models that have the
guts to go GUT and encompass the four basic forces (or five if one treats the B field separate from E) as well as declare there is a bottom, and it is spacetime. </span><span style="font-size:13.5pt">As background, note that the Standard Model can typically
be summarized using symmetry groups as </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif""> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:CMMI10">SU</span>(3) <span style="font-family:CMSY10">× </span><span style="font-family:CMMI10">SU</span>(2) <span style="font-family:CMSY10">× </span><span style="font-family:CMMI10">U</span>(1) <span style="font-family:CMSY10">× </span><span style="font-family:CMMI10">SO</span>(3<span style="font-family:CMMI10">,</span>1)<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif""> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white">Keep in mind that Barrett using the appropriate extensions to Maxwell's equations (Maxwell 20) confines his "Topological Electromagnistim" to<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif""> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><span style="font-family:CMMI10">EM only ... SU</span>(3) <span style="font-family:CMSY10">× </span><span style="font-family:CMMI10">SU</span>(2) <span style="font-family:CMSY10">× </span><span style="font-family:CMMI10">U</span>(1)<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif""> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><b><span style="font-family:TimesNewRomanPS">Topological Foundations of Electromagnetism </span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><a href="http://aflb.ensmp.fr/AFLB-26j/aflb26jp055.pdf"><span style="color:purple">http://aflb.ensmp.fr/AFLB-26j/aflb26jp055.pdf</span></a><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif""> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white">I have two noteworthy additions to the SM. Electrons can be spin coupled, and there is the question of phat photons, So I've wondered if the proper investigative path might be<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif""> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:CMMI10">N^2 hv == SU(4) X SU</span>(3) <span style="font-family:CMSY10">× </span><span style="font-family:CMMI10">SU</span>(2) <span style="font-family:CMSY10">× </span><span style="font-family:CMMI10">U</span>(1) <span style="font-family:CMSY10">× </span><span style="font-family:CMMI10">SO</span>(3<span style="font-family:CMMI10">,</span>1)<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif""> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white">Any comment or correction on this view may be of help. And yes, I have seen the equations of the universe.<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif""> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white">From Sean Carroll<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif""><a href="http://www.preposterousuniverse.com/blog/2013/01/04/the-world-of-everyday-experience-in-one-equation/"><span style="color:purple">The World of Everyday
Experience, In One Equation</span></a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="text-align:center"><a href="http://www.preposterousuniverse.com/blog/2013/01/04/the-world-of-everyday-experience-in-one-equation/"><span style="color:purple;text-decoration:none"><img border="0" width="168" height="58" id="_x0000_i1025" src="http://www.preposterousuniverse.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Everyday-Equation-1024x353.jpg" alt="image"></span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:12.4pt;word-break:break-all"><a href="http://www.preposterousuniverse.com/blog/2013/01/04/the-world-of-everyday-experience-in-one-equation/"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:purple">The World of Everyday Experience,
In One Equation</span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:15.0pt;word-break:break-all"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:#999999">Longtime readers know I feel strongly that it should be more widely appreciated that the laws underlying the physics of everyday life are completely
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:1.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif""><a href="http://www.preposterousuniverse.com/blog/2013/01/04/the-world-of-everyday-experience-in-one-equation/" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:7.0pt;color:#999999">View
on </span></a></span><b><span style="font-size:7.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#999999"><a href="http://www.preposterousuni">www.preposterousuni</a>...</span></b><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white">So as I look at the various models for this SPIE conference, I wonder what is the next unification?<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white">Could Unification of the photon and electron be next?<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white">Perhaps a topological description of inside the electron? <span style="font-size:13.5pt">Or could it be the unification of spacetime and waves that provides the key insight and breakthrough? </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:13.5pt">Could it be we need to rethink how we think about things, and perhaps relearn a new way on how we learn how to learn? </span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-family:"Helvetica","sans-serif"">And what is inside the photon?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white">Best Regards,<o:p></o:p></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white">David<o:p></o:p></p>
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