<html><body><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:16px"><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_2902">Chip</div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_2902"><br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_2902">Michael's is an interesting approach. Probably should be expanded on a bit. So I offer up a couple of possibilities</div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_2902"><br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_2902">1. Mathematical physics approach (needs to be interpreted by physics)</div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_2902"><br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_2902">If we assume conservation of momentum. Then by expanding dp/dt by partials we have...</div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_2902"><br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_2902" dir="ltr">dp/dt = m dv/dt + dm/dt v<br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_2902"><br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_2902">(Is this true in physics?)</div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_2902"><br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_2902">With v = dx/dt we have...</div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_2902"><br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_2902" dir="ltr">dp/dt = m dx^2/dt^2 + dm/dt dx/dt<br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_2902"><br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_2902">Michael's equation is:</div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_2902"><br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_2902" dir="ltr">dp_i/dt = e v_j dA_j/dx_i</div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_2902" dir="ltr"><br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_2902"><br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_2902"><span id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_5034">By combining Michael's dp_i/dt with the above we have</span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_2902"><br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_2902" dir="ltr">dp_i/dt = e v_j dA_j/dx_i + dm/dt dx_i/dt<br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_2902" dir="ltr"><br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_2902" dir="ltr">2. Quantum Gravity Approach - The SM electron *does not* have gravity included in the zero mass.</div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_2902" dir="ltr"><br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_2902" dir="ltr">The Standard Model (SM) does not address gravity, a major gap in theory and a potential mass violation often overlooked in photon and electron theories. </div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_2902" dir="ltr"><span class=""><br></span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_2902" dir="ltr"><span class="" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_18551">The ADM electron is one model which incorporates Standard Model and General Relativity. </span><span class="" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_13975">To determine the mass of the electron, Woodward refers us to </span><span class="" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_10645">Ashtekar(1989) who pointed out that ADM theory - Arnowitt, Deser, and Misner (1960, 1962) - </span><span id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_11287" class="">motivated his work on non-perturbative quantum gravity. </span></div><div class="" title="Page 7" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_9905"><div class="" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_9907"><div class="" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_9909"><div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_9959" class=""><span class="" style="font-family: TimesNewRomanPSMT;"><br></span></div><div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_9959" class=""><span class="" style="font-family: TimesNewRomanPSMT;"></span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_2902" dir="ltr" class="">From <a href="http://physics.fullerton.edu/~jimw/stargates.pdf" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_6994" class="">http://physics.fullerton.edu/~jimw/stargates.pdf</a></div><div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_9959" class=""><i id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_14428"><font size="5" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_14541"><span class="" style="font-family: TimesNewRomanPSMT;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_13037">"He noted that as electrons are very simple,
their masses could be characterized by a bare mass, </span><span id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_11289" class="" style="font-family: TimesNewRomanPS;">m</span><span id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_11291" class="" style="font-family: TimesNewRomanPSMT; vertical-align: -2pt;">o</span><span id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_11293" class="" style="font-family: TimesNewRomanPSMT;">, and two self-energy terms, the electrical due to
their electric charge and the gravitational due to their bare mass. Separately, the self-energy terms go to
infinity as the radius of the charge distribution goes to zero. But if these terms are “fine tuned”, since
they are of opposite sign, they can be made to cancel. The situation, when general relativity is taken into
consideration, is different. In general relativity, since everything couples to gravity, including gravity
itself, </span><span id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_11592" class="" style="font-family: TimesNewRomanPSMT;">the mass in the gravitational self-energy term becomes the total mass, rather than the bare mass.</span></font></i></div>
<div class="" title="Page 6" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_11594">
<div class="" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_11596">
<div class="" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_11598">
<div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_11600" class=""><span style="font-family: TimesNewRomanPSMT;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_11602" class=""><font id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_14369" size="5"><i> <br id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_11604" class=""></i></font></span></div><div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_11600" class="">
</div><div class="" title="Page 13" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_12166">
<div class="" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_12168">
<div class="" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_12170">
<div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_12172" class=""><font id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_13133" size="5"><i id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_14427"><span style="font-family: TimesNewRomanPSMT;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_12174" class="">The only obvious generalization of the ADM solution of Einstein’s field equations, Equation (1) with
the self-energy terms signs reversed to allow for the negative bare mass, that leaves it a simple quadratic
equation that can be solved for </span><span style="font-family: TimesNewRomanPS;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_12176" class="">m </span><span style="font-family: TimesNewRomanPSMT;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_12178" class="">in the usual way is: </span></i></font></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="" title="Page 6" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_11295">
<div class="" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_11297">
<div class="" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_11299">
<div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_11301" class=""><span style="font-family: TimesNewRomanPSMT;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_11303" class=""><font size="3"> <br id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_11305" class=""></font></span></div><div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_11301" class=""><span style="font-family: TimesNewRomanPSMT;" class=""></span></div><div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_9959" class=""><font id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_14660" size="2" class="">(Editor's note: c is NOT set to 1, R is the radius, A is a variable TBD, caution is advised on the signs in 19 )</font></div><div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_15978" class=""><font size="2" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_15980" class=""><br id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_15982" class=""></font></div>
</div>
</div>
</div><div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_9959" class=""><span class="" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_9978"><span id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_9977" class=""><font id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_13134" size="5">m = m(0) - A/R (e/c)^2 + G/R (m/c)^2 (19)</font></span></span></div><div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_9959" class=""><span class=""><font size="5"><br></font></span></div><div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_9959" class=""><span class="" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_13136"><font id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_13135" size="5">m = Rc^2/G - SQRT (A e^2/G) (20)</font></span></div><div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_9959" class=""><font size="5"><br></font></div><div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_9959" class=""><br></div><div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_9959" class=""><i id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_14889"><span id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_12565" class=""><font size="3">Woodward continues...</font></span></i></div><div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_9959" class=""><i><span class=""><font size="3"><br></font></span></i></div><div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_9959" class=""><font id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_15011" size="5"><i id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_15010"><span class="" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_15012">"As long as we can find a way to express the angular momentum and its associated energy of rotation and magnetic self-energy in terms of </span><span id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_12567" class="">e</span><span id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_12569" class="" style="vertical-align: 5pt;">2</span><span id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_12571" class="">/</span><span id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_12573" class="">R</span><span id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_12575" class="">, then all we need do is choose </span><span id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_12577" class="">A </span><span id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_12579" class="">appropriately to incorporate these quantities into our solution." </span></i><br></font></div><div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_9959" class=""><span class="" style="font-family: TimesNewRomanPSMT;"><br></span></div><div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_9959" class=""><font size="3" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_13138" class=""><font face="TimesNewRomanPSMT" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_10274" class="">(Editor's note: For zero radius, R=0, we have </font><span id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_12800" class="" style="font-family: TimesNewRomanPSMT;"> </span><font face="TimesNewRomanPSMT" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_12801" class="">m = SQRT (e^2/G))</font></font></div><div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_13238" class=""><br></div></div></div></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_2902" dir="ltr">So the ADM electron may provide an insightful solution as the quantum gravity electron suitably meeting the criteria of both quantum gravity and general relativity. One might attempt to modify the ADM electron model by including spin, and therefore, for the mass of the electron, use the resultant mass equivalence as represented in equation 20 above. Other modifications to (19,20) may also prove insightful.</div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_2902" dir="ltr"><br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_2902" dir="ltr">References are below...</div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_2902" dir="ltr"><br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_2902" dir="ltr">Best Regards,</div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_2902" dir="ltr"><br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_2902" dir="ltr">David</div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_2902" dir="ltr"><br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_2902" dir="ltr">ref: </div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_2902" dir="ltr" class="">Woodward 2011 paper</div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_2902" dir="ltr" class=""><a href="http://physics.fullerton.edu/~jimw/stargates.pdf" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_6994" class="">http://physics.fullerton.edu/~jimw/stargates.pdf</a></div><div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_15502" class=""><br id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_15504" class=""></div><div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_15502" class="">Ashtekar (1989)</div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_2902" dir="ltr">Arnowitt, Deser and Misner (1960, 1962)</div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_2902" dir="ltr"><br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_2902" dir="ltr">See also</div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_2902" dir="ltr">Ashtekar 2001</div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_2902" dir="ltr"><a href="http://arxiv.org/pdf/gr-qc/0112038v1.pdf" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_7193">http://arxiv.org/pdf/gr-qc/0112038v1.pdf</a><br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_2902" dir="ltr"><br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_2902" dir="ltr" class="">As an added caution, loop quantum gravity has matured in the past 25 years. Here are some updates that may influence further development of equations 19 and 20</div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_2902" dir="ltr" class=""><br id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_18131" class=""></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_2902" dir="ltr" class="">2015 status</div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_2902" dir="ltr" class=""></div><div class="" title="Page 1" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_17497"><div class="" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_17499"><div class="" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_17501"><div class="" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_17503"><div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_17505" class=""><span id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_17507" class="" style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: CMBX12;">Quantum Gravity: A Brief History of Ideas and Some Prospects</span></div><div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_17505" class=""><span id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_17511" class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: CMR10;">Steven Carlip,</span><span class="" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_17534" style="font-size: 11px;"><font face="CMR8" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_18144" class=""> </font></span><span id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_17517" class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: CMR10;">Chiou,</span><span id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_17523" class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: CMR10;"> Ni,</span><span id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_17529" class="" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: CMR10;">and Woodard</span></div><div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_17505" class=""><span class="" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_17731" style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: CMR10;"><a href="http://arxiv.org/pdf/1507.08194.pdf" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_17728" class="">http://arxiv.org/pdf/1507.08194.pdf</a><br id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_18152" class=""></span></div></div></div></div></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_2902" dir="ltr" class=""><br id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_18155" class=""></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_2902" dir="ltr" class="">Chiou 2014 Primer </div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_2902" dir="ltr" class=""><a href="http://arxiv.org/abs/1412.4362" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_17288" class="">http://arxiv.org/abs/1412.4362</a><br id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_17393" class=""></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_17389" dir="ltr" class=""><br id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_17396" class=""></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_2902" dir="ltr" class="">See also <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chern%E2%80%93Simons_theory" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_16965" class="">Chern–Simons theory - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia</a>.</div><div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_18165" class=""><br id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_18167" class=""></div> <blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255); margin-left: 5px; margin-top: 5px; padding-left: 5px;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_2860"> <div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_2859"> <div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_2858"> <div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_2857"> <hr size="1" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_4300"> <font size="2" face="Arial" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_2856"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">From:</span></b> Chip Akins <chipakins@gmail.com><br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> 'Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion' <general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org> <br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Saturday, August 1, 2015 10:59 AM<br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [General] The New Aether<br> </font> </div> <div class="y_msg_container" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_3576"><br>Hi John W<br clear="none"><br clear="none">Sorry it took me so long to forward this. But it is the response from<br clear="none">Michael so that you can see it as well.<br clear="none"><br clear="none">Chip<br clear="none"><br clear="none">-----Original Message-----<br clear="none">From: General<br clear="none">[mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=<a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles." href="mailto:gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles." id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_8837">gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.</a><br clear="none">org] On Behalf Of M.A.<br clear="none">Sent: Monday, July 27, 2015 5:27 PM<br clear="none">To: <a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org">general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a><br clear="none">Subject: Re: [General] The New Aether<br clear="none"><br clear="none">Hi Chip,<br clear="none"><br clear="none">Wikipedia (<a shape="rect" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faraday_paradox" target="_blank">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faraday_paradox</a>)<br clear="none">has several tedious explanations / interpretations.<br clear="none"><br clear="none">My feeling is that the apparent paradox results from the problematic Lorentz<br clear="none">force law (F_i = eE_i + e(v x B)_i) .<br clear="none">It is problematic, because the Lorentz force only gives "m*a" and not the<br clear="none">force "dp/dt". It already gives unexpected results for two charged particles<br clear="none">in relative motion (F_12 != F_21, i.e. a violation of Newton III).<br clear="none"><br clear="none">I suspect working through the problem using the "real"<br clear="none">force (F_i = dp_i/dt = e v_j dA_j/dx_i) would not result in any paradox.<br clear="none"><br clear="none">Cheers,<br clear="none">Michael<br clear="none"><br clear="none">> Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2015 10:46:20 -0500<br clear="none">> From: "Chip Akins" <<a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:chipakins@gmail.com" href="mailto:chipakins@gmail.com">chipakins@gmail.com</a>><br clear="none">> To: "'Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion'"<br clear="none">> <<a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_8838">general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>><br clear="none">> Subject: Re: [General] The New Aether<br clear="none">> Message-ID: <02af01d0c883$67367ec0$35a37c40$@gmail.com><br clear="none">> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-7"<br clear="none">><br clear="none">> Hi All<br clear="none">><br clear="none">><br clear="none">><br clear="none">> A friend forwarded this video regarding magnetic fields.<br clear="none">><br clear="none">> It is quite interesting.<br clear="none">><br clear="none">> <a shape="rect" href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gduYoT9sMaE" target="_blank">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gduYoT9sMaE</a><br clear="none">><br clear="none">><br clear="none">><br clear="none">> I am interested in hearing your views and thoughts on this phenomenon.<br clear="none">><br clear="none">><br clear="none">><br clear="none">> Chip<br clear="none">><br clear="none">><br clear="none">><br clear="none"><br clear="none">_______________________________________________<br clear="none">If you no longer wish to receive communication from the Nature of Light and<br clear="none">Particles General Discussion List at <a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:chipakins@gmail.com" href="mailto:chipakins@gmail.com">chipakins@gmail.com</a> <a<br clear="none">href="<a shape="rect" href="http://lists.natureoflightandparticles.org/options.cgi/general-natureo" target="_blank">http://lists.natureoflightandparticles.org/options.cgi/general-natureo</a><br clear="none">flightandparticles.org/chipakins%40gmail.com?unsub=1&unsubconfirm=1"><br clear="none">Click here to unsubscribe<div class="qtdSeparateBR"><br><br></div><div class="yqt6528283962" id="yqtfd95485"><br clear="none"></a><br clear="none"><br clear="none">_______________________________________________<br clear="none">If you no longer wish to receive communication from the Nature of Light and Particles General Discussion List at <a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:davidmathes8@yahoo.com" href="mailto:davidmathes8@yahoo.com">davidmathes8@yahoo.com</a><br clear="none"><a href="<a shape="rect" href="http://lists.natureoflightandparticles.org/options.cgi/general-natureoflightandparticles.org/davidmathes8%40yahoo.com?unsub=1&unsubconfirm=1" target="_blank">http://lists.natureoflightandparticles.org/options.cgi/general-natureoflightandparticles.org/davidmathes8%40yahoo.com?unsub=1&unsubconfirm=1</a>"><br clear="none">Click here to unsubscribe<br clear="none"></a><br clear="none"></div><br><br></div> </div> </div> </blockquote> </div></body></html>