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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>Thank you David<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>A lot to digest here.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>Finally created a “filter” to always send your responses to my inbox. They were going to spam so I had to search for them. They should come through now.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>Chip<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif'> General [mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>David Mathes<br><b>Sent:</b> Saturday, August 01, 2015 2:32 PM<br><b>To:</b> Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [General] The New Aether<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_2902"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black'>Chip<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_2902"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_2902"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black'>Michael's is an interesting approach. Probably should be expanded on a bit. So I offer up a couple of possibilities<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_2902"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_2902"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black'>1. Mathematical physics approach (needs to be interpreted by physics)<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_2902"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_2902"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black'>If we assume conservation of momentum. Then by expanding dp/dt by partials we have...<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_2902"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_2902"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black'>dp/dt = m dv/dt + dm/dt v<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_2902"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_2902"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black'>(Is this true in physics?)<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_2902"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_2902"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black'>With v = dx/dt we have...<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_2902"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_2902"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black'>dp/dt = m dx^2/dt^2 + dm/dt dx/dt<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_2902"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_2902"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black'>Michael's equation is:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_2902"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_2902"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black'>dp_i/dt = e v_j dA_j/dx_i<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_2902"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_2902"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_2902"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black'>By combining Michael's dp_i/dt with the above we have<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_2902"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_2902"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black'>dp_i/dt = e v_j dA_j/dx_i + dm/dt dx_i/dt<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_2902"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_2902"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black'>2. Quantum Gravity Approach - The SM electron *does not* have gravity included in the zero mass.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_2902"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_2902"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black'>The Standard Model (SM) does not address gravity, a major gap in theory and a potential mass violation often overlooked in photon and electron theories. <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_2902"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_2902"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black'>The ADM electron is one model which incorporates Standard Model and General Relativity. To determine the mass of the electron, Woodward refers us to Ashtekar(1989) who pointed out that ADM theory - Arnowitt, Deser, and Misner (1960, 1962) - motivated his work on non-perturbative quantum gravity. <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_9905"><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_9907"><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_9909"><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_9959"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_2902"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black'>From <a href="http://physics.fullerton.edu/~jimw/stargates.pdf" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_6994">http://physics.fullerton.edu/~jimw/stargates.pdf</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_9959"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><i><span style='font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"TimesNewRomanPSMT",serif;color:black'>"He noted that as electrons are very simple, their masses could be characterized by a bare mass, </span></i><i><span style='font-size:18.0pt;font-family:TimesNewRomanPS;color:black'>m</span></i><i><span style='font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"TimesNewRomanPSMT",serif;color:black;position:relative;top:2.0pt;mso-text-raise:-2.0pt'>o</span></i><i><span style='font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"TimesNewRomanPSMT",serif;color:black'>, and two self-energy terms, the electrical due to their electric charge and the gravitational due to their bare mass. Separately, the self-energy terms go to infinity as the radius of the charge distribution goes to zero. But if these terms are “fine tuned”, since they are of opposite sign, they can be made to cancel. The situation, when general relativity is taken into consideration, is different. In general relativity, since everything couples to gravity, including gravity itself, the mass in the gravitational self-energy term becomes the total mass, rather than the bare mass.</span></i><span style='font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_11594"><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_11596"><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_11598"><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_11600"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><i><span style='font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"TimesNewRomanPSMT",serif;color:black'> <br id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_11604"><br></span></i><span style='font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_12166"><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_12168"><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_12170"><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_12172"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><i><span style='font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"TimesNewRomanPSMT",serif;color:black'>The only obvious generalization of the ADM solution of Einstein’s field equations, Equation (1) with the self-energy terms signs reversed to allow for the negative bare mass, that leaves it a simple quadratic equation that can be solved for </span></i><i><span style='font-size:18.0pt;font-family:TimesNewRomanPS;color:black'>m </span></i><i><span style='font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"TimesNewRomanPSMT",serif;color:black'>in the usual way is: </span></i><span style='font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_11295"><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_11297"><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_11299"><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_11301"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"TimesNewRomanPSMT",serif;color:black'> <br id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_11305"><br></span><span style='font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_9959"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black'>(Editor's note: c is NOT set to 1, R is the radius, A is a variable TBD, caution is advised on the signs in 19 )</span><span style='font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_15978"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_9959"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black'>m = m(0) - A/R (e/c)^2 + G/R (m/c)^2 (19)</span><span style='font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_9959"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_9959"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black'>m = Rc^2/G - SQRT (A e^2/G) (20)</span><span style='font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_9959"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_9959"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_9959"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><i><span style='font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black'>Woodward continues...</span></i><span style='font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_9959"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_9959"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><i><span style='font-size:18.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black'>"As long as we can find a way to express the angular momentum and its associated energy of rotation and magnetic self-energy in terms of e<span style='position:relative;top:-5.0pt;mso-text-raise:5.0pt'>2</span>/R, then all we need do is choose A appropriately to incorporate these quantities into our solution." </span></i><span style='font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_9959"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_9959"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"TimesNewRomanPSMT",serif;color:black'>(Editor's note: For zero radius, R=0, we have m = SQRT (e^2/G))</span><span style='font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_13238"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_2902"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black'>So the ADM electron may provide an insightful solution as the quantum gravity electron suitably meeting the criteria of both quantum gravity and general relativity. One might attempt to modify the ADM electron model by including spin, and therefore, for the mass of the electron, use the resultant mass equivalence as represented in equation 20 above. Other modifications to (19,20) may also prove insightful.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_2902"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_2902"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black'>References are below...<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_2902"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_2902"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black'>Best Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_2902"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_2902"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black'>David<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_2902"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_2902"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black'>ref: <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_2902"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black'>Woodward 2011 paper<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_2902"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black'><a href="http://physics.fullerton.edu/~jimw/stargates.pdf">http://physics.fullerton.edu/~jimw/stargates.pdf</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_15502"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_15502"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black'>Ashtekar (1989)<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_2902"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black'>Arnowitt, Deser and Misner (1960, 1962)<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_2902"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_2902"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black'>See also<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_2902"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black'>Ashtekar 2001<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_2902"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black'><a href="http://arxiv.org/pdf/gr-qc/0112038v1.pdf">http://arxiv.org/pdf/gr-qc/0112038v1.pdf</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_2902"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_2902"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black'>As an added caution, loop quantum gravity has matured in the past 25 years. Here are some updates that may influence further development of equations 19 and 20<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_2902"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_2902"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black'>2015 status<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_17497"><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_17499"><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_17501"><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_17503"><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_17505"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"CMBX12",serif;color:black'>Quantum Gravity: A Brief History of Ideas and Some Prospects</span><span style='font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_17505"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:CMR10;color:black'>Steven Carlip,</span><span style='font-size:8.5pt;font-family:CMR8;color:black'> </span><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:CMR10;color:black'>Chiou, Ni,and Woodard</span><span style='font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_17505"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:CMR10;color:black'><a href="http://arxiv.org/pdf/1507.08194.pdf">http://arxiv.org/pdf/1507.08194.pdf</a><br id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_18152"><br></span><span style='font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_2902"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_2902"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black'>Chiou 2014 Primer <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_2902"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black'><a href="http://arxiv.org/abs/1412.4362">http://arxiv.org/abs/1412.4362</a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_17389"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_2902"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black'>See also <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chern%E2%80%93Simons_theory" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_16965">Chern–Simons theory - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia</a>.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_18165"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><blockquote style='border:none;border-left:solid #1010FF 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:3.75pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt' id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_2860"><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_2859"><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_2858"><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_2857"><div class=MsoNormal align=center style='text-align:center;background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black'><hr size=1 width="100%" align=center></span></div><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:black'> Chip Akins <<a href="mailto:chipakins@gmail.com">chipakins@gmail.com</a>><br><b>To:</b> 'Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion' <<a href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org">general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>> <br><b>Sent:</b> Saturday, August 1, 2015 10:59 AM<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [General] The New Aether</span><span style='font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_3576"><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black'><br>Hi John W<br><br>Sorry it took me so long to forward this. But it is the response from<br>Michael so that you can see it as well.<br><br>Chip<br><br>-----Original Message-----<br>From: General<br>[mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=<a href="mailto:gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles." id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_8837">gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.</a><br>org] On Behalf Of M.A.<br>Sent: Monday, July 27, 2015 5:27 PM<br>To: <a href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org">general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a><br>Subject: Re: [General] The New Aether<br><br>Hi Chip,<br><br>Wikipedia (<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faraday_paradox" target="_blank">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faraday_paradox</a>)<br>has several tedious explanations / interpretations.<br><br>My feeling is that the apparent paradox results from the problematic Lorentz<br>force law (F_i = eE_i + e(v x B)_i) .<br>It is problematic, because the Lorentz force only gives "m*a" and not the<br>force "dp/dt". It already gives unexpected results for two charged particles<br>in relative motion (F_12 != F_21, i.e. a violation of Newton III).<br><br>I suspect working through the problem using the "real"<br>force (F_i = dp_i/dt = e v_j dA_j/dx_i) would not result in any paradox.<br><br>Cheers,<br>Michael<br><br>> Date: Mon, 27 Jul 2015 10:46:20 -0500<br>> From: "Chip Akins" <<a href="mailto:chipakins@gmail.com">chipakins@gmail.com</a>><br>> To: "'Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion'"<br>> <<a href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1438451899459_8838">general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>><br>> Subject: Re: [General] The New Aether<br>> Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:02af01d0c883$67367ec0$35a37c40$@gmail.com">02af01d0c883$67367ec0$35a37c40$@gmail.com</a>><br>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-7"<br>><br>> Hi All<br>><br>><br>><br>> A friend forwarded this video regarding magnetic fields.<br>><br>> It is quite interesting.<br>><br>> <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gduYoT9sMaE" target="_blank">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gduYoT9sMaE</a><br>><br>><br>><br>> I am interested in hearing your views and thoughts on this phenomenon.<br>><br>><br>><br>> Chip<br>><br>><br>><br><br>_______________________________________________<br>If you no longer wish to receive communication from the Nature of Light and<br>Particles General Discussion List at <a href="mailto:chipakins@gmail.com">chipakins@gmail.com</a> <a<br>href="<a href="http://lists.natureoflightandparticles.org/options.cgi/general-natureo" target="_blank">http://lists.natureoflightandparticles.org/options.cgi/general-natureo</a><br>flightandparticles.org/chipakins%40gmail.com?unsub=1&unsubconfirm=1"><br>Click here to unsubscribe<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div id=yqtfd95485><p class=MsoNormal style='background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black'><br></a><br><br>_______________________________________________<br>If you no longer wish to receive communication from the Nature of Light and Particles General Discussion List at <a href="mailto:davidmathes8@yahoo.com">davidmathes8@yahoo.com</a><br><a href="<a href="http://lists.natureoflightandparticles.org/options.cgi/general-natureoflightandparticles.org/davidmathes8%40yahoo.com?unsub=1&unsubconfirm=1" target="_blank">http://lists.natureoflightandparticles.org/options.cgi/general-natureoflightandparticles.org/davidmathes8%40yahoo.com?unsub=1&unsubconfirm=1</a>"><br>Click here to unsubscribe<br></a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white'><span style='font-family:"Helvetica Neue";color:black'><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></body></html>