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<div style="direction: ltr;font-family: Tahoma;color: #000000;font-size: 10pt;">Dear Richard, Chandra, Chip and all,<br>
<br>
I have just read the link Richard supplied to David Pratt's article. For what it is worth, I agree with nearly all he says. Interesting also are his references to Harold Aspden's work. I have looked at this stuff before. It is largely ignored by modern physics
but fundamental in my view. In particular the man carried out some crucial experiments, including that on the "Aspden effect". Please see paper attached. Aether, or not, this is what looks like a proper experiment showing that something fundamental co-rotates
with a spinning magnet.<br>
<br>
Regards, John.<br>
<div style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #000000; font-size: 16px">
<hr tabindex="-1">
<div style="direction: ltr;" id="divRpF1445"><font face="Tahoma" color="#000000" size="2"><b>From:</b> General [general-bounces+john.williamson=glasgow.ac.uk@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org] on behalf of Roychoudhuri, Chandra [chandra.roychoudhuri@uconn.edu]<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, August 04, 2015 5:34 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [General] Questionnaire<br>
</font><br>
</div>
<div></div>
<div>
<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Richard and the rest:<a name="_MailEndCompose"> This reference you have sent us (below); clearly tells us, as per Francis Bacon’s strategy, that we are in the right direction. Stay embedded with the engineers
and consciously try to add progressive social values by facilitating engineering innovations for the society; which creates wealth. Nobody is against the creation of wealth! It will not be a very pragmatic strategy to fight people whose mind set follows “science
for the sake of science” is the intellectual freedom; irrespective of whether the outcomes benefit collective human evolution or not! </a></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Chandra.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">Ref:</span><i><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">
<span style="color:#1F497D">Richard J. Wilson (2010-04-09). “The Ether Dispute: Revisiting Einstein's argument that space is a physical substance” (Kindle Locations 7-8). Kindle Edition.</span></span></i></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> General [mailto:general-bounces+chandra.roychoudhuri=uconn.edu@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Richard Gauthier<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, August 04, 2015 11:41 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [General] Questionnaire</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Chandra and all,</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> You are probably already familiar with some of the alternative theoretical research relating ether/aether to quantum physics. I just read through the following article “The farce of modern physics” at <a href="http://davidpratt.info/farce.htm#ne7" target="_blank">http://davidpratt.info/farce.htm#ne7</a>
which is an overview of criticisms of current physics research (many of the criticisms are probably unjustified, but it requires physics knowledge and critical analysis to know which criticisms are justified and which aren't), and also mentions some of the
ether ideas and researchers in the last section. </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> Richard</p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt; margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Aug 4, 2015, at 6:13 AM, Chip Akins <<a href="mailto:chipakins@gmail.com" target="_blank">chipakins@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Hi Chandra</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Thank you for your comments. Culturally we have different backgrounds. I am US born, English, Irish, Jew, and Native American, and my wife Jasveer Kaur Akins is, of course, of Indian decent. So I have had some glimpse of the rich cultural
heritage from which you come. And I appreciate this in you.</p>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">We have looked at the universe, experiment, and the writings of other physicists, and independently come to many of the same conclusions, yet we are from very different backgrounds and technical disciplines. This is quite encouraging.</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I am currently of the opinion that we may be able to make some significant progress. For example, if we take the known behaviors of the reaction of energy as it propagates through space, and envision the tensors, possible “polarization”
of space, and the changes to the transverse modulus and “density” of space, we may be able to lay enough foundation to undertake a more accurate model of space. Then filling in the pieces so that the model replicates the known behavior and properties for
waves and particles. There is more information available than we might initially think, which can help us accomplish such a task.</p>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">This work is started (very early and basic beginnings), by writing down some steps and explanations, and starting the task of doing some initial math, to find a starting place. At some point I would like to share this with you, if you
are interested, so that you can comment, and if it is interesting to you, contribute.</p>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">The work of John W. and Martin, as well as Richard’s work, have been a constant inspiration, and I have learned much from these friends. They each have helped me in probably more ways than they know.</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Chip</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span class="apple-converted-space"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> </span></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">General
[<a href="mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</span></a>]<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><b>On
Behalf Of<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Roychoudhuri, Chandra<br>
<b>Sent:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Monday, August 03, 2015 12:53 PM<br>
<b>To:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion<br>
<b>Subject:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [General] Questionnaire</span></p>
</div>
</div>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Chip:<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">I obviously like your arguments. Somehow, our neural network has a decent degree of similarity, in spite of being brought up in different cultures! This is very important; because, we need, like the story
of the blind men mapping the cosmic elephant, diversity of approaches and then bring them together by demanding<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><b><i>conceptual continuity</i></b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>among diversity while<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><b><i>imposing
logical congruence</i></b>. These two actions, taken iteratively, will take our epistemic theories closer and closer towards ontic reality. The path for iteration is to imagine (visualize) the invisible interaction processes. This is, of course, if we accept
the postulate that the interaction processes in nature are connected more closely to the ontic reality than the measured data that represent only limited response to any interaction. Just data-validated theories cannot be our final theories.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">As you have underscored, the word “complex” in CTF has been used after a lot of rumination on the interaction processes for different phenomena: Present belief that the current epistemic theories are good
enough. As if there is no need to seek out ontic theories.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Yes, the entire concept of modern particle theory and the concept of forces will have to be changed to integrate with the CTF model; the CTF itself need to undergo many refinements. We have to replace Bosons
as force mediators by emergent secondary and tertiary potential gradients of the CTF around self-looped oscillators (particles) and their assemblies. Some type of “CTF” is also the best approach to develop the unified field theory, the dream of Einstein. How
can we unify physics unless everything tends to emerge and become one again repeatedly into the same field. That is CTF. The universality of energy conservation emerges automatically. Emergent particles and propagating EM waves are perturbations of the CTF,
linear and non-linear, respectively. These entities can exchange energies. Since, the tension field cannot assimilate the perturbation energy delivered on to it; the energy can only be exchanged amongst the emergent entities; and the conservation of energy
becomes a natural law of the universe.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Yes, 100% energy of the universe is held by the space as a very complex tension field. So, we need to start thinking what are the various possible mechanisms that can create (impart) such an aggregate of complex
tension properties. Which also begs the question: What is this primordial space occupying thing? How did it acquire these diversity of tensions? The enquiry is always endless! That is the perpetual challenge for the human mind so it can evolve continuously.
This demand of nature for continuous evolution (changes) of our minds make a very large segment of global population to cling to un-changing religions. And that is how all of our cultures have been promoting the Messiah Complex (the belief in working orders)
for millennia. Since all of us need a sense of stability to live our daily life; we all have some genetic propensity to Messiah Complex: The tendency to accept a working epistemic theory as the final theory.<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">I am of strong opinion that the advances we have achieved over the last few millennia, specifically, the last few hundred years; it is time to pull out all the foundational postulates behind all the working
theories and then try re-casting them in many different ways based on the cumulative and latest experimental knowledge, that we have gathered so far.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Only collaboration among a large group of open-minded scientists can carry out this task forward through several generations. It is not the job of a single Einstein.</span></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Sincerely,</span></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Chandra.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">PS: I have attached two my conference papers: where I have “gone out on the limb” to challenge myself and challenge others to over-ride our intrinsic Messiah Complex!</span></p>
</div>
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<div style="border:none; border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt; padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span class="apple-converted-space"><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> </span></span><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">General
[<a href="mailto:general-bounces+chandra.roychoudhuri=uconn.edu@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">mailto:general-bounces+chandra.roychoudhuri=uconn.edu@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</span></a>]<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><b>On
Behalf Of<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Chip Akins<br>
<b>Sent:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Monday, August 03, 2015 12:43 PM<br>
<b>To:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>'Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion'<br>
<b>Subject:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [General] Questionnaire</span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Hi John W</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">The Tipsy Crow sounds like it fits the needs. Looking forward to it. I have to arrive late, on Monday evening, due to business responsibilities, but hopefully we can all get together several times during the conference.</p>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">A bunch of opinion follows…</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">So if a photon occupies a single point in spacetime, then all energy is traveling, and always has traveled at<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><i>c</i>, so all energy, if it originated at a single point, like the big bang, is
still at<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><i>that single point is spacetime</i>, so the universe occupies a single point in spacetime. ???</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Nope my friend. Doesn’t add up. For this and many other reasons.<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Perhaps “absorber” is the wrong word for space, but “container” is correct. Space contains<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><i>and manages</i><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>all energy. It places the specific limitations
on the propagation of all energy, including photons. It keeps light from traveling infinitely fast, proven experimentally. So space “contains” light in more than one sense of the word. Space displays the following constraints on light: <image001.png></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">And similarly<image003.png>, so that light exhibits a finite velocity, (and exhibits mass effects). So space<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><i>constrains</i><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>light, and light has momentum,
so one result of these relationships is simply that light displays mass effects. Energy density in space defines the values for the “density” of space<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><i>p</i><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>and the transverse
modulus of space<image005.png>. This is true because energy in space causes mass effects …<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><i>p</i>, and energy in space stretches the “tensors” of space…<image007.png><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Space
therefore constrains and contains light, and space constrains and contains all energy. The properties of space, the constraints of space, allow the existence of light, and cause the confinement of energy into fermionic particles. So space is not that “simple”.
However space is an elegant and comprehensive container for all energy.</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Chip</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span class="apple-converted-space"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> </span></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">General
[<a href="mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</span></a>]<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><b>On
Behalf Of<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></b>John Williamson<br>
<b>Sent:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Monday, August 03, 2015 10:41 AM<br>
<b>To:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion<br>
<b>Cc:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Adam K; Nick Bailey; Anthony Booth; Manohar .; Joakim Pettersson; Ariane Mandray<br>
<b>Subject:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [General] Questionnaire</span></p>
</div>
</div>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">Hello Chip,<br>
<br>
The feeling is mutual. Looking forwards to meeting you too.<br>
<br>
Do not get the impression that I do not think that energy in any form has mass like effects. Pinned energy manifests as mass. Space, though, is not a "container". Space, by itself, is too simple. It is the derivatives of space-time with respect to space-time
that introduce the phase changes needed to keep things confined. This is the stuff of the "boxes" that confine energy. Do not think too simply! Space, by itself, cannot (and does not experimentally) absorb light. Look around you! You need the right topology,
and for that to be filled with energy, before you have a space-time capable of interacting with light.<br>
<br>
Regards, John.<br>
<br>
P.S. have been doing some research on possible meeting places. I think the "Tipsy Crow" on j - 5th may be interesting place. Good reviews and good beers. There are three floors. Upstairs seems the best. They have an "exchange rate" on beers , wth populars going
up and others down, so if you have a preference for a particular style let Martin and I know and we will try to get in your favourites at a good rate. I think we may well find ourselves there on Saturday night for any early comers. There is a cover, but you
can book in for nothing at their website early on Saturday for free.</span></p>
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<div class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:center" align="center">
<hr align="center" size="2" width="100%">
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span class="apple-converted-space"><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> </span></span><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">General
[<a href="mailto:general-bounces+john.williamson=glasgow.ac.uk@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">general-bounces+john.williamson=glasgow.ac.uk@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</span></a>] on behalf of Chip Akins
[<a href="mailto:chipakins@gmail.com" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">chipakins@gmail.com</span></a>]<br>
<b>Sent:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Monday, August 03, 2015 2:56 PM<br>
<b>To:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>'Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion'<br>
<b>Subject:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [General] Questionnaire</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Hi John W</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal">I am so looking forward to our discussions at the conference.</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">It seems that space is the container for all energy, in any form. The properties of space manage and control all energy. Martin’s “Light is heavy” paper illustrates part of the point, that energy, in any form, in space, has mass-like effects.
And for me, that also implies that light has an independent existence in space once emitted. Additionally, why state that matter is made of the same stuff as light, and then ignore the relativistic consequences of that statement? For if that statement is
true, then there is a clear Euclidian definition for 3 space, and a clear cause for time, as we perceive it.<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">So I am coming to believe that Chandra’s CTF is more plausible than 4 space, and that 4 space is only a representation of the interaction of matter (fermions) with space. And then time, as we know and measure it, is the result of the interaction
of particles, caused by the speed of light.<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
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<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">This would mean that<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><b>space itself</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>is a perfectly satisfactory “absorber” of emitted radiation, because space is the “container” and “manager” of
all energy. <span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></p>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">The<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><b>Complex</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>in Complex Tension Field, for me includes some torsion and “polarization” effects as David mentioned in an earlier email.<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">For many reasons therefore I do not believe the “single-point-in-spacetime” “photon exchange” is real at all.<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><i>For me, this approach causes many more problems than it solves.</i></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">And for many additional reasons, I feel that entanglement is an illusion caused by misinterpretation of the results of experiment, and misunderstanding the basic nature of light and extended spatial nature of particles and their fields.</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">The cheapest solution to the HBT effect is Maxwellian waves.</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">I really admire your work, and the progress you have made in in that work, but I still feel that you have this one wrong. Maybe you will be able to show me why it must be so, but so far it still seems contrived to me.</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">With respect and warm regards.</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Chip</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span class="apple-converted-space"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> </span></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">General
[<a href="mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</span></a>]<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><b>On
Behalf Of<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></b>John Williamson<br>
<b>Sent:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Monday, August 03, 2015 7:59 AM<br>
<b>To:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion<br>
<b>Cc:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Nick Bailey; Anthony Booth; Michael Wright; Manohar .; Joakim Pettersson; Ariane Mandray<br>
<b>Subject:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [General] Questionnaire</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">Now this is an interesting bunch of questions. Right to the heart of the matter indeed!<br>
<br>
I think it is wise to pause and go back here to the origin of dialectic itself - the Greek invention to begin to split up the world and systematise it. The idea that a question could be asked sufficient to split the answer into two possibilities, one true one
false. I think the answer to "is the photon quantised or is it the emitter and/or absorber" is ... "all three" because "all three" are part of the single process that we call photon exchange. Also the word "photon" as opposed to "light" simply CARRIES the
meaning of "quantised". This is a trite way to end an argument, but does not say anything about the deep understanding of why and how it is "quantised". Saying "quantised is often giving a word to sum up a lack of knowledge, to encompass a lack of understanding
into a simple label. We humans have been doing this sort of thing for a long time. There is an awful lot of room for bullshit here and it is easy to fool oneself into thinking something has deep meaning, when in fact it is contingent on the mathematical framework
in which one considers it. To illustrate this, just look at my light paper! The maths quantises continuous light if it is more than a few wavelengths long - but is the maths right? Who knows?<br>
<br>
Coming back to experiment, it may be nice to think about an emitter emitting a single photon bullet, later absorbed by an absorber, with the photon having an independent existence in between but this is not only not what is observed in experiment, but the whole
body of evidence contradicts this simple view. Emitter and absorber ARE experimentally entangled. Antibunching happens - but it part of a whole process. There is also the Hanbury-Brown Twiss effect to consider. The "interaction with absorber" theory also plays
a role - bringing in the question of causality itself. As Martin says this is a huge question.<br>
<br>
Remember also that the whole theme of the bi-ennial conference Chandra has been organising for more than a decade has been to try to answer the very point of "what is a photon?". The fact that a conclusive answer has not yet emerged tells the story.<br>
<br>
My own view is that the emitter AND absorber need to be quantised, but quantised in the same way. There is a need to look at Phat photons as a good experimental probe here and also, as I suggest in my "light" paper, emitters and absorbers in the fractional
quantum Hall regime may have fractional quantisation E = 1/3 h nu (you heard it here first!). This would show, conclusively, the role the emitter and absorber play, but still not settle the question posed properly as I think the fractional quantisation itself
is not yet properly understood..<br>
<br>
I think to make proper progress we need to develop a better theory that fits all the facts - just and no more. A theory that lays bare the nature of the emitter, the absorber, and the intermediating process - all at once and from a deeper underlying basis.
A theory that allows the whole process to be understood within a single framework.<br>
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Should be fun trying this, even if we cannot sort it all out next week!<br>
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Regards, John W.</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span class="apple-converted-space"><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> </span></span><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">General
[<a href="mailto:general-bounces+john.williamson=glasgow.ac.uk@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">general-bounces+john.williamson=glasgow.ac.uk@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</span></a>] on behalf of Mark,
Martin van der [<a href="mailto:martin.van.der.mark@philips.com" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">martin.van.der.mark@philips.com</span></a>]<br>
<b>Sent:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Monday, August 03, 2015 12:55 PM<br>
<b>To:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion<br>
<b>Subject:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [General] Questionnaire</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Dear David, Richard and Chip,</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Thanks for the comments, what we are dealing with here is quite a difficult question indeed.</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">First of all Chip, by your remark I can see you do really get the essence of and reason for my question, that is going to be helpfull.</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Richard, certainly most of what you say is true and even relevant but does not yet hit on the deep implications of the possible answer of my question.</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">I must emphasize that do not denie any of the experimental facts commonly or less commonly known about quantum optics, etcetera.</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Bunching and anti-bunching are true phenomena that shows transfer of energy goes in blips, and with certain statistics associated, in complete accordance of what we may think is a photon. Indeed, this is what IS a photon, this is what defines
ot experimentally. </p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">What I am saying is that one can jump to conclusions and imagine a simple picture of a photon being some quantum particle to explain the outcome of the experiments (and for that purpose it will, always, work perfectly). Alternatively one
can take a more involved point of view by asigning an essential role to the emitter and absorber to explain the experiment. Being lazy, that doesn't seem to be a comfortable option, but it does open the door to solving deeper questions:</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">What is the nature of the photon?<br>
The alternative view relieves the photon from having on board everything to define it. That is the crucial insight.</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">After a century in which no person has been able to answer the question, this seems to be a viable option. On top of that, it solves non-locality issues.</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Cheers, Martin</p>
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Verstuurd vanaf mijn iPhone</p>
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Op 3 aug. 2015 om 06:13 heeft Richard Gauthier <<a href="mailto:richgauthier@gmail.com" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">richgauthier@gmail.com</span></a>> het volgende geschreven:</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Hi Chip,</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> There’s a long history and fight among the founders of quantum mechanics since 1926 about whether quantum processes can be treated as continuous (Schrodinger and others) or discrete quantum jumps (Heisenberg and others). Their two quantum
calculation methods (wave mechanics and matrix mechanics) were shown to be mathematically equivalent. And Einstein's ideas in 1905 about the light quantum (later named photon) as a carrier of light energy weren’t really generally accepted until 1923 with
the Compton effect where photons seem to act like billiard balls in terms of their energy and momentum interactions with electrons. Semi-Classical physics argues that emission and absorption processes are quantized but energy transmission through radiation
remains classical. Most physicists don’t accept semi-classical ideas any more and accept that the photon carries quantized energy given by E=hf even when photons are not being emitted or absorbed. QED supposedly solved the problem by renormalizing infinities
to finite numbers. Dirac was never satisfied with this approach (ugly math), but QED does give very precise answers. So it’s a long and continuing story. I think that Compton wavelength-sized electron models are a key to deeper understanding of all this, because
this length is often treated as a cutoff length in calculating the force between two electrons which might otherwise be treated as point charges associated with infinite energies.</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> Richard</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Aug 2, 2015, at 7:07 PM, Chip Akins <<a href="mailto:chipakins@gmail.com" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">chipakins@gmail.com</span></a>> wrote:</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Hi Richard</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">The question of whether the “photon” is inherently quantized, or just appears quantized to us, through our observation of the reaction of the quantized emitters and absorbers, seems to be an important aspect for creating a full understanding
of the nature of “photons”, and their reaction with particles.<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">The process of emission is a quantized process, as is the process of absorption. But since a photon can be any number of wavelengths, depending on the quantized configuration of the emission process, it seems that the photon itself cannot
be strongly quantized, and may have no inherent quantization at all, meaning no forces in itself which cause it to be quantized. We know that fermions have forces which cause their resonant nature and quantization.</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">If I understand Martin’s challenge, it is to show that the photon must be inherently quantized, and not just quantized because of the emitter and absorber. ??</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Chip</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span class="apple-converted-space"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""> </span></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">General
[</span><a href="mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:purple">mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</span></a><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"">]<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><b>On
Behalf Of<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Richard Gauthier<br>
<b>Sent:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Sunday, August 02, 2015 7:54 PM<br>
<b>To:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion<br>
<b>Subject:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [General] Questionnaire</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Martin,</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> That’s fine. But why focus on the photon as not a particle but a process? The emitter, electromagnetic field and absorber are processes also and not particles. So what is the source of existence and stability of all these? Everything
is process. So where do we go from here? Quantum effects are also process. Does that not make them less physical? </p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> Richard</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Aug 2, 2015, at 5:38 PM, Mark, Martin van der <<a href="mailto:martin.van.der.mark@philips.com" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">martin.van.der.mark@philips.com</span></a>> wrote:</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Richard, not true. How does it work?</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">It only proves the end result, the quantized transfer, but not whether the field is intrinsically quantized.</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">There is an aweful lot of shit and confusion and parottery ( if that is a concept) about this. So, please dont quote it unless you can really explain why it makes the difference.</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">My position is actually that this is impossible at the deepest level!</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">But the consequence of that is that it is also impossible to make a description of a photon as being a particle! Because it is only a process, and that does not require existence and stability by itself, it aquires it within the context
of the exchange of energy and angular momentum by emitter, electromagnetic field and absorber. This is why the process can have any number of wavelenghts, any polarization and be entangled.</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Cheers, Martin<br>
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Verstuurd vanaf mijn iPhone</p>
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Op 3 aug. 2015 om 02:14 heeft Richard Gauthier <<a href="mailto:richgauthier@gmail.com" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">richgauthier@gmail.com</span></a>> het volgende geschreven:</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Hello Martin,</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> Thanks for your challenge to the group.</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> I’m quoting from the Wikipedia article “Photon” at<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photon" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photon</span></a><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>:
"Although these semiclassical models contributed to the development of quantum mechanics, many further experiments<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photon#cite_note-2" target="_blank"><sup><span style="color:purple">[2]</span></sup></a><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photon#cite_note-3" target="_blank"><sup><span style="color:purple">[3]</span></sup></a><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>starting
with<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compton_scattering" title="Compton scattering" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">Compton scattering</span></a><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>of single
photons by electrons, first observed in 1923, validated Einstein's hypothesis that<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><i>light itself</i><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>is<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantization_%28physics%29" title="Quantization (physics)" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">quantized</span></a>.
"</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">The abstract of reference [2] titled </p>
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<h3>Photon Antibunching in Resonance Fluorescence, </h3>
<h5>H. J. Kimble, M. Dagenais, and L. Mandel</h5>
<h5>Phys. Rev. Lett. 39, 691 – Published 12 September 1977</h5>
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<p class="MsoNormal">says: "The phenomenon of antibunching of photoelectric counts has been observed in resonance fluorescence experiments in which sodium atoms are continuously excited by a dye-laser beam. It is pointed out that, unlike photoelectric bunching,
which can be given a semiclassical interpretation, antibunching is understandable only in terms of a quantized electromagnetic field. The measurement also provides rather direct evidence for an atom undergoing a quantum jump."</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">You seem to be claiming that there is no definite experimental proof that light itself is quantized. Does the above experiment contradict your claim? You may say that the above experiment or any single experiment or group of experiments
cannot be completely conclusive. Well, is any physics experiment completely conclusive about a theory? Are you asking the impossible when you ask for conclusive experimental proof?</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> all the best,</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"> Richard</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Aug 2, 2015, at 4:23 PM, Mark, Martin van der <<a href="mailto:martin.van.der.mark@philips.com" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">martin.van.der.mark@philips.com</span></a>> wrote:</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D">Dear Andrew,</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D">I have looked at the questionnaire and realized that the one, most important question is missing!</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D">Question 2 is closest to it, but not quite as straight to the point.</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D">The question is to my opinion the most fundamental of any to be asked in the context of the nature of the photon. It is: Does quantization of the transfer
of electromagnetic energy and angular momentum (the process that is mediated by what we call “photon”) resides in the electromagnetic field itself or in the emitter and absorber? Or something else, perhaps.</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D">Anyone may take a position of what he or she likes best of course, and I have my preference of what I would think it to be.</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D">But if one takes a position as being the truth, it should be accompanied by reference to experimental proof.</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D">I bet that no one can come up with any reference that is conclusive about this! It is the pink elephant in the room…if it is there we should make it explicit!!!!</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt; font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif"; color:#1F497D">Best regards, Martin</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"; color:navy" lang="DE">Dr. Martin B. van der Mark</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"; color:navy">Principal Scientist, Minimally Invasive Healthcare</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"; color:navy">Philips Research Europe - Eindhoven</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"; color:navy">High Tech Campus, Building 34 (WB2.025)</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"; color:navy">Prof. Holstlaan 4</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span class="apple-converted-space"><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> </span></span><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">General
[</span><a href="mailto:general-bounces+martin.van.der.mark=philips.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"; color:purple">mailto:general-bounces+martin.van.der.mark=philips.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</span></a><span style="font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">]<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><b>On
Behalf Of<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Andrew Meulenberg<br>
<b>Sent:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>zaterdag 1 augustus 2015 6:03<br>
<b>To:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion; Andrew Meulenberg<br>
<b>Cc:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Mary Fletcher<br>
<b>Subject:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [General] Questionnaire</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Dear John M,</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Looking forward to talking w you at the conference.<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
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I recognized that most of us have too much to say on most of the items. Could you perhaps provide chapter or page of sections of your book that pertain to the questions? That would give an interested party a handy guide to the more detailed info and to your
book.</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Andrew</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal">On Fri, Jul 31, 2015 at 6:02 PM, <<a href="mailto:john@macken.com" target="_blank"><span style="color:purple">john@macken.com</span></a>> wrote:</p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#444444">Hello Everyone,</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#444444">I am currently in Iceland and starting tomorrow I will be in Greenland for 7 days. Most of that time I will definitely be out of email contact and the rest of the time it is questionable if I will have any internet.
I will be returning to the US just before the conference. I will arrive in San Diego about noon on Monday, Aug. 10. Therefore I will miss the Sunday night get-together.</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#444444">I have found it very hard to write the concise answers required for the questionnaire. The reason is that I have much more detailed answers for each of the questions than most other people in the group. For example,
I have just finished what I believe is the final substantive draft of my book titled “The Universe is Only Spacetime”. It is now over 400 pages. The portion of the book addressed by the questions extends from chapter 4 to chapter 11. This is a total of 134
pages. Furthermore, I get into substantial quantitative detail and proofs which make short answers impossible.</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#444444">For example, with electrons I have explained and quantified two components of the electron model. This model does not derive either the electron’s Compton frequency or the fine structure constant. However, if
these two numbers are provided, I can derive the electron’s energy, inertia, gravitational curvature of spacetime, gravitational force with another fundamental particle, and electrostatic force with another fundamental particle. This derivation comes from
the properties of spacetime and the particle model. If I just proceed from first principles, I generate the electrostatic force if both particles had Planck charge rather than elementary charge e. In an earlier email, John W. considered this to be a defect.
He said that I had missed the correct value by more than a factor of 100 (missed by 1/</span><span style="font-family:"Cambria Math","serif"; color:#444444">α</span><span style="color:#444444">). This is ironic because I was quite happy with this answer. I
was calculation the force assuming a coupling constant of 1, not the electron’s force with a mysterious coupling constant of alpha (</span><span style="font-family:"Cambria Math","serif"; color:#444444">α</span><span style="color:#444444">).</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#444444">I believe that this is the first time that a model of a fundamental particle has been able to generate the gravitational force and the electrostatic force even assuming a coupling constant of 1. If you know of
any other model which has passed this test, I would be interested in hearing about it. </span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#444444">I have not mentioned it before, but my model also generates the strong force. The model also produces asymptotic freedom when quarks are bound together into hadrons and explains why the strong force increases
as the separation distance is increased beyond the natural distance which produces asymptotic freedom. (all in the book.)</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#444444">On another point, I believe that any model of particles that does not include waves which modulate the rate of time will never be able to generate either curved spacetime or the gravitational force. It is my
understanding that Chandra’s CTF model only involves the 3 spatial dimensions without involving time. If he introduces time into his model, then my model and his model would be very close.</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#444444">Finally, I object to characterizing an electron as being a confined photon. I believe that a photon and an electron are both made of the same fundamental building block. Therefore photons can be converted to
electron/positron pairs and vice versa. They are closely related, but saying that an electron is an oscillating confined photon implies that a photon is the fundamental building block of the universe or at least particles. It also implies that we will never
be able to understand an electric field, a magnetic field or a charge in terms of a distortion of a more fundamental component.</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#444444">I explain all of these in terms of a distortion of energetic spacetime. I claim that an electric field, a magnetic field and even a gravitational field have both an oscillating component and a non-oscillating
component. I give equations for these in the book. I show that the oscillating component gives the correct energy density to the electric and magnetic field. I also propose that a gravitational field has an energy density. I combine this with the energy
of the spacetime field and show how the interaction generates a black hole when the energy density of the gravitational field at a particular frequency matches the energy density of spacetime at that frequency.</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#444444">While I have finished this most recent revision of the book, it has not been loaded onto the website yet. There is a problem with the website that is preventing new material from being loaded onto the website.
This problem is being worked on by one of my sons and should be fixed in a few days.</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#444444">John M.</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">-----Original Message-----<br>
From: "Andrew Meulenberg" <</span><a href="mailto:mules333@gmail.com" target="_blank"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"; color:purple">mules333@gmail.com</span></a><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">><br>
Sent: Friday, July 31, 2015 10:57am<br>
To: "Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion" <</span><a href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"; color:purple">general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</span></a><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">><br>
Cc: "Mary Fletcher" <</span><a href="mailto:marycfletcher@gmail.com" target="_blank"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"; color:purple">marycfletcher@gmail.com</span></a><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">><br>
Subject: [General] Questionnaire</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Dear Folks,</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">We have 4 contributors so far. It is very illuminating. I hope that at some point we can get convergence on at least some of the questions. John W. has added a question that everyone can add
to the end of the list:</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">QUESTION 14: By what mechanism is the electron confined?</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">I do not have time to answer the good comments in the individual emails right now (wife and premature twins, Grant and Remington, are in the hospital and all doing
well). However, I hope to have time at the Conference to do so in person for those present.</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">I will not be arriving until 8:16PM on Sunday evening, so I cannot join the group (where ever) until about 9PM. Please do not wait until then to get started. I
will be leaving Friday evening.</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">My time and schedule are somewhat constrained by that of Bob Hudgins and Mary Fletcher, who will arrive earlier in the day. We are planning on renting a car and
staying at a motel in South Bay where the rates are more reasonable. if anyone else is doing something similar, please let me know.</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span style="font-family:"Arial","sans-serif"">Best to all,</span></p>
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