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Isn't it the charges in the Laser interacting, not the emitted
photons (aka: waves, interactions)?<br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 15.08.2015 09:50, John Macken wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:062201d0d77a$76f2a5e0$64d7f1a0$@macken.com"
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Hello All,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>It was great meeting with all of
you. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>I would like to introduce a different
perspective to the discussion of the interaction of light
with a thought experiment. Suppose that we have a billion
small microwave antennas randomly distributed in space. The
antennas on average are separated by a distance equal to
about 10% of the wavelength that they will emit and the size
of each antenna is much smaller than a wavelength. A
billion of these antennas from a “cloud” about 100
wavelengths in diameter. If each antenna emits randomly,
then the total cloud of antennas would emit an incoherent
spherical emission pattern. However, if all antennas emit
the same frequency and if the phase is properly controlled,
then the emitted radiation can form a beam with a divergence
angle of about 0.01 radian. Furthermore, the beam can be
steered to propagate in any direction with proper phase
adjustment. When the emission forms a coherent beam, then
the cloud of antennas feels momentum in the opposite
direction of the emitted radiation. This momentum would
accelerate the cloud of antennas in the recoil direction.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>The example just given is a
simulation of what happens in a laser. Each atom in the
excited state can either emit a photon by spontaneous
emission or by stimulated emission. When stimulated
emission occurs, the emission is still generally spherical,
but the phase of emission is coordinated so that part of the
spherical emission is coherently added to the beam causing
the stimulated emission. The spherical emission of a single
atom “interacts” with the other waves to form a collimated
beam propagating in a particular direction. The force
imparted to the emitting atom is random if the emission is
spontaneous or in a particular direction if it is
stimulated. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>In my way of looking at this, this
example satisfies a loose definition of interaction of light
waves. I assume that there might be a way of looking at
this in which it can be argued that there was no interaction
of waves, but this position will require stretching of
definitions. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>John M.</span><span></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span>From:</span></b><span> General
[<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:general-bounces+john=macken.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org">mailto:general-bounces+john=macken.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>David Mathes<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, August 14, 2015 8:58 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Nature of Light and Particles - General
Discussion
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"><general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org></a>;
Andrew Meulenberg <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:mules333@gmail.com"><mules333@gmail.com></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [General] Light from Light
reflection</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1439609808422_4409">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Andrew</span></p>
</div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1439609808422_4410">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
</div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1439609808422_4410">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>One paper that might be of
interest is:</span></p>
</div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1439609808422_4410">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://arxiv.org/abs/1205.5897" title="Abstract"
id="yui_3_16_0_1_1439609808422_5064"><span>arXiv:1205.5897</span></a> [<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://arxiv.org/pdf/1205.5897" title="Download
PDF" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1439609808422_5066"><span>pdf</span></a>]</span></b><span></span></p>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1439609808422_5070">
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1439609808422_5072">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span>Spin and Orbital Angular
Momenta of Light Reflected from a Cone</span></b></p>
</div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1439609808422_5074">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://arxiv.org/find/physics/1/au:+Mansuripur_M/0/1/0/all/0/1"><span>Masud
Mansuripur</span></a>, <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://arxiv.org/find/physics/1/au:+Zakharian_A/0/1/0/all/0/1"
id="yui_3_16_0_1_1439609808422_5078"><span>Armis R.
Zakharian</span></a>, <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://arxiv.org/find/physics/1/au:+Wright_E/0/1/0/all/0/1"
id="yui_3_16_0_1_1439609808422_5080"><span>Ewan M.
Wright</span></a></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1439609808422_4412">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Another paper is:</span></p>
</div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1439609808422_4412">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
</div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1439609808422_4412">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Fearn 2012 <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://arxiv.org/abs/1212.4469"
id="yui_3_16_0_1_1439609808422_4533">[1212.4469]
Radiation Reaction Force on a Particle</a></span></p>
</div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1439609808422_4412">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
</div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1439609808422_4412">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
</div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1439609808422_4412">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>David</span></p>
</div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1439609808422_4412">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
</div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1439609808422_4412">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
</div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1439609808422_4412">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
</div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1439609808422_4412">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
</div>
<blockquote id="yui_3_16_0_1_1439609808422_4306">
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1439609808422_4305">
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1439609808422_4304">
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1439609808422_4392">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
</div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1439609808422_4392">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
</div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1439609808422_4392">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
</div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1439609808422_4392">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span>From:</span></b><span>
Andrew Meulenberg <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:mules333@gmail.com">mules333@gmail.com</a>><br>
<b>To:</b> Nature of Light and Particles - General
Discussion <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org">general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>>;
Andrew Meulenberg <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:mules333@gmail.com">mules333@gmail.com</a>>
<br>
<b id="yui_3_16_0_1_1439609808422_4530">Sent:</b>
Friday, August 14, 2015 8:36 PM<br>
<b id="yui_3_16_0_1_1439609808422_4528">Subject:</b>
Re: [General] Light from Light reflection</span><span></span></p>
</div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1439609808422_4303">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
<div id="yiv1131972355">
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1439609808422_4302">
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1439609808422_4367">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Forgot the paper.</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
</div>
<div id="yiv1131972355yqt51578">
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1439609808422_4301">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1439609808422_4300">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>On Fri, Aug 14,
2015 at 11:33 PM, Andrew Meulenberg <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:mules333@gmail.com"
target="_blank">mules333@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<br>
<br>
</span></p>
<blockquote>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1439609808422_4309">
<div
id="yui_3_16_0_1_1439609808422_4308">
<div
id="yui_3_16_0_1_1439609808422_4307">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Gentlemen,</span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>In
discussions after Bob Hudgins'
presentation on Wednesday, I
realized that we had been too
close to the problem (and
solution) and did not recognize
the information gap that existed
within the community. The
reference was with regards to the
nature of light-light interaction.
The paper by Dowling (attached)
identifies the problem between the
NIW school and the light-light
interaction school.</span></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>It is
necessary to emphasize and clarify
some points.<br>
<br>
</span></p>
<ol start="1" type="1">
<li class="MsoNormal"
id="yui_3_16_0_1_1439609808422_5193"><span>Dowling
proposed that IDENTICAL waves
interact. However, </span></li>
<li class="MsoNormal"
id="yui_3_16_0_1_1439609808422_5353"><span>he
was unable to PROVE reflection,
rather than transmission.</span></li>
<li class="MsoNormal"
id="yui_3_16_0_1_1439609808422_5354"><span>Mathematically
the results are identical.</span></li>
<li class="MsoNormal"
id="yui_3_16_0_1_1439609808422_5171"><span>In
Dowling's paper, he demonstrates
that even identical <b>components</b>
of colliding waves have this
property.</span></li>
<li class="MsoNormal"
id="yui_3_16_0_1_1439609808422_5173"><span>The
difference of the colliding waves
always is transmitted, not
reflected.</span></li>
<li class="MsoNormal"
id="yui_3_16_0_1_1439609808422_5174"><span>Therefore,
when added to the identical
portion (that is the reflected
part), the sum becomes equivalent
to a transmitted wave.</span></li>
<li class="MsoNormal"
id="yui_3_16_0_1_1439609808422_5175"><span>The
paper showed that the differences
could be in:</span></li>
</ol>
<ol start="7"
id="yui_3_16_0_1_1439609808422_5177"
type="1">
<ol start="1" type="1">
<li class="MsoNormal"
id="yui_3_16_0_1_1439609808422_5176"><span>phase</span></li>
<li class="MsoNormal"
id="yui_3_16_0_1_1439609808422_5178"><span>amplitude</span></li>
<li class="MsoNormal"
id="yui_3_16_0_1_1439609808422_5184"><span>polarity</span></li>
<li class="MsoNormal"
id="yui_3_16_0_1_1439609808422_5185"><span>change
in frequency</span></li>
</ol>
</ol>
<div
id="yui_3_16_0_1_1439609808422_5188">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Thus, while
Chandra's NIW view is almost
always correct, if based on
numbers alone, there is a growing
field (based on lasers), which
proves that interaction of
identical light goes beyond
Dirac's statement that photons can
only interact with themselves.
With this new information, it is
possible to view ordinary light
from a different perspective. "Any
identical portions of light beams
can (and will) reflect from each
other." </span></p>
</div>
<div
id="yui_3_16_0_1_1439609808422_5187">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>An example
of this can be demonstrated by an
introductory-physics device
(Newton's cradle, <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Momentum#Conservation"
target="_blank">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Momentum#Conservation</a>
). Only if equal numbers of balls
are dropped simultaneously will
there be reflection of the same
number as the input. If unequal
numbers are dropped
simultaneously, then it would
appear that the larger number of
balls is transmitted thru the set
of balls. No one would say that
the balls travel thru the
stationary balls. Momentum
reflection is the obvious answer
in this case - and in the case of
light. </span></p>
</div>
<div
id="yui_3_16_0_1_1439609808422_5192">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Had Dowling
remembered this demonstration, he
would have been able to say with
absolute authority that light can
reflect from light. The appendix
of our paper is a mathematical
proof of the null-momentum point
in the center of the 'dark' zone
for equal waves. This is the wave
equivalent of the equal-particle
demonstration.</span></p>
</div>
<div
id="yui_3_16_0_1_1439609808422_5191">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>My task for
the next conference may be to
demonstrate how this reflection
effect affects the photon
structure within the electron.</span></p>
</div>
<div
id="yui_3_16_0_1_1439609808422_5190">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span>Andrew</span></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span> </span></p>
<div id="yqt99064">
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