<html><body><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:16px"><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1439695601705_4229"><span>John W</span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1439695601705_4230"><br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1439695601705_4235"><span id="yui_3_16_0_1_1439695601705_4234">I'm reminded of <a href="http://theoreticalminimum.com/" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1439695601705_4417">The Theoretical Minimum </a>by Susskind, a popular book and series of online videos. The title comes from the Landau tests (L&L various volumes) </span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1439695601705_4235"><br></div><div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1439695601705_4839">Now, what is the minimal basis?</div><div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1439695601705_4839"><br></div><div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1439695601705_4839">David</div><div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1439695601705_4839"><br></div> <blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255); margin-left: 5px; margin-top: 5px; padding-left: 5px;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1439695601705_4249"> <div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1439695601705_4248"> <div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1439695601705_4247"> <div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1439695601705_4246"> <hr size="1" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1439695601705_4834"> <font size="2" face="Arial" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1439695601705_4245"> <b id="yui_3_16_0_1_1439695601705_4838"><span style="font-weight:bold;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1439695601705_4837">From:</span></b> John Williamson <John.Williamson@glasgow.ac.uk><br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> David Mathes <davidmathes8@yahoo.com>; Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion <general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org> <br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Cc:</span></b> Joakim Pettersson <joakimbits@gmail.com>; Adam K <afokay@gmail.com>; Ariane Mandray <ariane.mandray@wanadoo.fr>; Manohar . <manohar_berlin@hotmail.com> <br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Saturday, August 15, 2015 8:09 PM<br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> RE: [General] Light from Light reflection<br> </font> </div> <div class="y_msg_container" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1439695601705_4250"><br><div id="yiv0970449734">
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<div style="direction:ltr;font-family:Tahoma;color:#000000;font-size:10pt;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1439695601705_4251">Dear all,<br>
<br>
My own view is that I think it is wrong headed to ascribe a physical separation of things which are, properly, functions of one another. One needs to go to basis where they are all properly described. Not have angular momentum(x,y,z,t), momentum(x,y,z,t), position(x,y,z,t)
and field(x,y,z,t). This introduces far too many variables. Of course they are all conserved - but not as little angular momentum fluids, charge fluids, mass fluids and so on wandering about independent of anything else. One needs to keep the basis minimal!<br>
<br>
Regards, John W.<br>
<div style="font-family:Times New Roman;color:#000000;font-size:16px;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1439695601705_4254">
<hr tabindex="-1">
<div style="direction:ltr;" id="yiv0970449734divRpF915321"><font face="Tahoma" color="#000000" size="2" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1439695601705_4253"><b id="yui_3_16_0_1_1439695601705_4894">From:</b> General [general-bounces+john.williamson=glasgow.ac.uk@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org] on behalf of David Mathes [davidmathes8@yahoo.com]<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, August 16, 2015 2:03 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion<br>
<b id="yui_3_16_0_1_1439695601705_4895">Subject:</b> Re: [General] Light from Light reflection<br>
</font><br>
</div>
<div></div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1439695601705_4256">
<div style="color:#000;background-color:#fff;font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:16px;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1439695601705_4255">
<div id="yiv0970449734yui_3_16_0_1_1439685290848_5242"><span id="yui_3_16_0_1_1439695601705_4896">John</span></div>
<div id="yiv0970449734yui_3_16_0_1_1439685290848_5242"><br>
</div>
<div id="yiv0970449734yui_3_16_0_1_1439685290848_5242" dir="ltr"><span id="yiv0970449734yui_3_16_0_1_1439685290848_5471" class="yiv0970449734" style="color:rgb(0,0,255);">>The angular momentum can never mask the linear momentum that must be conserved. </span></div>
<div id="yiv0970449734yui_3_16_0_1_1439685290848_5242" dir="ltr"><span class="yiv0970449734" style="color:rgb(0,0,255);"><br>
</span></div>
<div id="yiv0970449734yui_3_16_0_1_1439685290848_5242" dir="ltr"><span class="yiv0970449734" id="yiv0970449734yui_3_16_0_1_1439685290848_5472" style="color:rgb(0,0,255);">>Similarly, it is possible to ignore linear momentum transfer when discussing angular momentum transfer.</span><br>
</div>
<div id="yiv0970449734yui_3_16_0_1_1439685290848_5242"><br>
</div>
<div id="yiv0970449734yui_3_16_0_1_1439685290848_5242">I have difficulty with these statements</div>
<div id="yiv0970449734yui_3_16_0_1_1439685290848_5242" dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div id="yiv0970449734yui_3_16_0_1_1439685290848_5242" dir="ltr">The good news is that they may be the basis for a near future paper. Thank you.</div>
<div id="yiv0970449734yui_3_16_0_1_1439685290848_5242" dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div id="yiv0970449734yui_3_16_0_1_1439685290848_5242" dir="ltr">David</div>
<div id="yiv0970449734yui_3_16_0_1_1439685290848_5242" dir="ltr"><br>
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<blockquote id="yiv0970449734yui_3_16_0_1_1439685290848_5396" style="border-left:2px solid rgb(16,16,255);margin-left:5px;margin-top:5px;padding-left:5px;">
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<div id="yiv0970449734yui_3_16_0_1_1439685290848_5394" style="font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:16px;">
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<font id="yiv0970449734yui_3_16_0_1_1439685290848_5397" face="Arial" size="2"><b><span style="font-weight:bold;">From:</span></b> John Macken <john@macken.com><br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold;">To:</span></b> Nature of Light and Particles <general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org>
<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold;">Sent:</span></b> Saturday, August 15, 2015 5:17 PM<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [General] Light from Light reflection<br>
</font></div>
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<div class="yiv0970449734WordSection1" id="yiv0970449734yui_3_16_0_1_1439685290848_5400">
<div class="yiv0970449734MsoNormal" id="yiv0970449734yui_3_16_0_1_1439685290848_5399"><span id="yiv0970449734yui_3_16_0_1_1439685290848_5582" style="color:blue;">David and A. F.,</span></div>
<div class="yiv0970449734MsoNormal" id="yiv0970449734yui_3_16_0_1_1439685290848_5402"><span style="color:blue;"> </span></div>
<div class="yiv0970449734MsoNormal" id="yiv0970449734yui_3_16_0_1_1439685290848_5404"><span id="yiv0970449734yui_3_16_0_1_1439685290848_5403" style="color:blue;">First I will answer David. You say that “</span><span id="yiv0970449734yui_3_16_0_1_1439685290848_5405" style="color:black;">conservation
of momentum needs to be conserved both externally <i>and internally”</i></span><span id="yiv0970449734yui_3_16_0_1_1439685290848_5406" style="color:blue;">. It appears as if you are referring to angular momentum when you say “internally”. I agree that both types of momentum
must be conserved and they are independent of each other. When discussing the linear momentum imparted to an atom or microwave antenna, it is possible to ignore angular momentum. The angular momentum can never mask the linear momentum that must be conserved.
Similarly, it is possible to ignore linear momentum transfer when discussing angular momentum transfer.</span></div>
<div class="yiv0970449734MsoNormal" id="yiv0970449734yui_3_16_0_1_1439685290848_5416"><span style="color:blue;"> </span></div>
<div class="yiv0970449734MsoNormal" id="yiv0970449734yui_3_16_0_1_1439685290848_5418"><span id="yiv0970449734yui_3_16_0_1_1439685290848_5417" style="color:blue;">A.F. Kracklauer brings up an interesting point that I missed previously. He says, “</span>Isn't it the charges in the laser
interacting, not the emitted photons?<span id="yiv0970449734yui_3_16_0_1_1439685290848_5529" style="color:blue;">” One of the reasons that I partially qualified my previous answer is because there is some interaction between the spherical waves being emitted in the opposite
direction to the wave propagation direction and the charges in the atoms. In a laser oscillator, standing waves are formed because there is propagation in both directions. However, in an laser amplifier the “propagating waves” are only propagating in one
direction. Still any one atom is emitting waves in all directions. It is the waves with a backwards component that is imparting momentum to the other atoms. Similarly, the microwave antennas are emitting waves in all directions and it is the backwards propagating
components that are imparting momentum to other atoms.</span></div>
<div class="yiv0970449734MsoNormal" id="yiv0970449734yui_3_16_0_1_1439685290848_5524"><span style="color:blue;"> </span></div>
<div class="yiv0970449734MsoNormal" id="yiv0970449734yui_3_16_0_1_1439685290848_5523"><span id="yiv0970449734yui_3_16_0_1_1439685290848_5522" style="color:blue;">However, this does not destroy the main point. It is the phased emission of spherical waves that results in a small component
of the spherical wave coherently adding to the other waves. The intensity is amplitude squared which results in the well-defined laser beam or well-defined microwave beam. Therefore, in my view this is an example of the interaction of waves.</span></div>
<div class="yiv0970449734MsoNormal" id="yiv0970449734yui_3_16_0_1_1439685290848_5526"><span id="yiv0970449734yui_3_16_0_1_1439685290848_5525" style="color:blue;"> </span></div>
<div class="yiv0970449734MsoNormal"><span style="color:blue;">On a related subject, I do not understand how it is possible to claim that photons only interact with themselves. When two different laser beams are superimposed in a beam splitter, the output beams
are amplitude modulated at the beat frequency between the two laser beams. I used to work with laser radar systems and this was a daily occurrence. The two different lasers clearly are generating different photons, yet they interact with each other when
they are combined. Even if the two beams from two lasers merely overlap with no beam splitter, the beat signal can be seen if a small detector is inserted into the region where the beams overlap. For greatest signal, the area of a detector must be small
enough that it only intercepts one interference fringe. Another alternative is to mask the detector so that it sees multiple fringes but only sees either the even or odd numbered fringes. One of my better patents is based on this principle.</span></div>
<div class="yiv0970449734MsoNormal"><span style="color:blue;"> </span></div>
<div class="yiv0970449734MsoNormal"><span style="color:blue;">Finally, I would like to comment on the transfer of angular momentum (David’s internal momentum). I once did a calculation where I looked at the torque force that needed to be exerted on a carbon
monoxide molecule to transfer the h bar angular momentum at the CO molecule’s fundamental rotational frequency. I do not remember the exact answer, but the torque momentum that needed to be transferred to the CO molecule to accomplish the angular momentum
transfer was about 1,000,000 times greater than the linear momentum transferred if it was assumed that the torque was exerted over the radius of the CO molecule. It only made sense if you assumed an interaction radius equal to an object that was one wavelength
in circumference. This is the same area as the interaction cross-section that Chandra mentioned for an atom or molecule to absorption of a photon.
</span></div>
<div class="yiv0970449734MsoNormal"><span style="color:blue;"> </span></div>
<div class="yiv0970449734MsoNormal"><span style="color:blue;">I suspect that even linearly polarized photons have a wave structure that carries a specific angular momentum as orbital angular momentum. It requires a special type of experiment to prove or disprove
this contention. </span></div>
<div class="yiv0970449734MsoNormal"><span style="color:blue;"> </span></div>
<div class="yiv0970449734MsoNormal"><span style="color:blue;">John M. </span></div>
<div class="yiv0970449734MsoNormal"><span style="color:blue;"> </span></div>
<div class="yiv0970449734MsoNormal"><span style="color:blue;"> </span></div>
<div class="yiv0970449734MsoNormal"><span style="color:blue;"> </span></div>
<div class="yiv0970449734MsoNormal"><span style="color:blue;"> </span></div>
<div class="yiv0970449734MsoNormal"><span style="color:blue;"> </span></div>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in;">
<div class="yiv0970449734MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;"> General [mailto:general-bounces+john=macken.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>David Mathes<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Saturday, August 15, 2015 12:34 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion <general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [General] Light from Light reflection</span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="yiv0970449734MsoNormal"> </div>
<div>
<div id="yiv0970449734yui_3_16_0_1_1439666383354_4329">
<div class="yiv0970449734MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="color:black;">John</span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv0970449734yui_3_16_0_1_1439666383354_4211">
<div class="yiv0970449734MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="color:black;"> </span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv0970449734yui_3_16_0_1_1439666383354_4207">
<div class="yiv0970449734MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="color:black;">For any particle - mass or massless - conservation of momentum needs to be conserved both externally
<i>and internally</i>. </span><span style="color:black;"></span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv0970449734yui_3_16_0_1_1439666383354_4207">
<div class="yiv0970449734MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="color:black;"> </span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv0970449734yui_3_16_0_1_1439666383354_4207">
<div class="yiv0970449734MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="color:black;">Internal particle absorption of the recoil means one needs to attend to the
<i id="yiv0970449734yui_3_16_0_1_1439666383354_4518">coupling between internal and external systems</i> to provide a clear picture of linear and angular momentum conservation.</span><span style="color:black;"></span></div>
</div>
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<div class="yiv0970449734MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="color:black;"> </span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv0970449734yui_3_16_0_1_1439666383354_4408">
<div class="yiv0970449734MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="color:black;">David</span></div>
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</span></div>
<div class="yiv0970449734MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:black;">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:black;"> John Macken <</span><a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:john@macken.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:john@macken.com"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;">john@macken.com</span></a><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:black;">><br>
<b>To:</b> Nature of Light and Particles <</span><a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;">general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</span></a><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:black;">>
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Saturday, August 15, 2015 12:28 PM<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [General] Light from Light reflection</span><span style="color:black;"></span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv0970449734yui_3_16_0_1_1439666383354_4146">
<div class="yiv0970449734MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="color:black;"> </span></div>
<div id="yiv0970449734">
<div id="yiv0970449734yui_3_16_0_1_1439666383354_4145">
<div id="yiv0970449734yui_3_16_0_1_1439666383354_4144">
<div id="yiv0970449734yui_3_16_0_1_1439666383354_4143">
<div class="yiv0970449734MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="color:blue;">David,</span><span style="color:black;"></span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv0970449734yui_3_16_0_1_1439666383354_4253">
<div class="yiv0970449734MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="color:blue;"> </span><span style="color:black;"></span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv0970449734yui_3_16_0_1_1439666383354_4255">
<div class="yiv0970449734MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="color:blue;">I did not read all the article, but I read enough to conclude that it does not repeal the conservation of momentum. If a photon is emitted,
it is carrying away momentum. The emitting body must absorb the opposite moment. If the emitting body is an isolated atom, then the recoiling atom has de Broglie waves with exactly the same wavelength (same momentum) as the emitted photon when observed from
the atom’s original frame of reference.</span><span style="color:black;"></span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv0970449734yui_3_16_0_1_1439666383354_4285">
<div class="yiv0970449734MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="color:blue;"> </span><span style="color:black;"></span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv0970449734yui_3_16_0_1_1439666383354_4257">
<div class="yiv0970449734MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="color:blue;">However, this is somewhat off the major point which was that the interaction of waves can determine the direction of emission of a photon’s
quantized energy. In my way of looking at this, it is an example of waves interacting.
</span><span style="color:black;"></span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv0970449734yui_3_16_0_1_1439666383354_4410">
<div class="yiv0970449734MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="color:blue;"> </span><span style="color:black;"></span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv0970449734yui_3_16_0_1_1439666383354_4258">
<div class="yiv0970449734MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="color:blue;">John M.
</span><span style="color:black;"></span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv0970449734yui_3_16_0_1_1439666383354_4422">
<div class="yiv0970449734MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="color:blue;"> </span><span style="color:black;"></span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv0970449734yui_3_16_0_1_1439666383354_4262">
<div id="yiv0970449734yui_3_16_0_1_1439666383354_4261" style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in;">
<div>
<div class="yiv0970449734MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white;">
<span style="color:black;"> </span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv0970449734yqtfd30735">
<div id="yiv0970449734yui_3_16_0_1_1439666383354_4260">
<div class="yiv0970449734MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black;">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black;"> General [</span><a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:general-bounces+john=macken.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:general-bounces+john=macken.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">mailto:general-bounces+john=macken.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</span></a><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black;">]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>David Mathes<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Saturday, August 15, 2015 11:57 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion <</span><a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</span></a><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black;">><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [General] Light from Light reflection</span><span style="color:black;"></span></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div id="yiv0970449734yqtfd87245">
<div id="yiv0970449734yui_3_16_0_1_1439666383354_4411">
<div class="yiv0970449734MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="color:black;"> </span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv0970449734yui_3_16_0_1_1439666383354_4264">
<div id="yiv0970449734yui_3_16_0_1_1439663606211_10523">
<div id="yiv0970449734yui_3_16_0_1_1439666383354_4284">
<div class="yiv0970449734MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="color:black;">John M</span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div id="yiv0970449734yui_3_16_0_1_1439663606211_10523">
<div id="yiv0970449734yui_3_16_0_1_1439666383354_4263">
<div class="yiv0970449734MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="color:black;"> </span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div id="yiv0970449734yui_3_16_0_1_1439663606211_10523">
<div id="yiv0970449734yui_3_16_0_1_1439666383354_4265">
<div class="yiv0970449734MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="color:black;">The method you propose is classical not in keeping with recent papers on radiation reaction, most notably a relativistic approach as derived
by Fearn 2012 (one of Miloni's students now a professor)</span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div id="yiv0970449734yui_3_16_0_1_1439663606211_10523">
<div id="yiv0970449734yui_3_16_0_1_1439666383354_4266">
<div class="yiv0970449734MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="color:black;"> </span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div id="yiv0970449734yui_3_16_0_1_1439663606211_10523">
<div id="yiv0970449734yui_3_16_0_1_1439666383354_4267">
<div class="yiv0970449734MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://arxiv.org/abs/1212.4469"><span style="">http://arxiv.org/abs/1212.4469</span></a><span style="color:black;"></span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div id="yiv0970449734yui_3_16_0_1_1439663606211_10523">
<div id="yiv0970449734yui_3_16_0_1_1439666383354_4268">
<div class="yiv0970449734MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="color:black;"> </span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div id="yiv0970449734yui_3_16_0_1_1439663606211_10523">
<div id="yiv0970449734yui_3_16_0_1_1439666383354_4270">
<div class="yiv0970449734MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="color:black;">The 3D amorphous phased array is a great gendanken. 2D phased arrays are well known. However, 3D optical arrays suffer from all sorts
of fields, masses and energy transfers as well as dispersion issues. The reason folks like the laser is due in part to the non-linearity effects that can be produced. </span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div id="yiv0970449734yui_3_16_0_1_1439663606211_10523">
<div id="yiv0970449734yui_3_16_0_1_1439666383354_4271">
<div class="yiv0970449734MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="color:black;"> </span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div id="yiv0970449734yui_3_16_0_1_1439663606211_10523">
<div id="yiv0970449734yui_3_16_0_1_1439666383354_4273">
<div class="yiv0970449734MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="color:black;">Furthermore, any approach may not produce a visible recoil since conservation of momentum needs to be conserved both externally and internally
to a particle. Internal particle effects may "absorb" the recoil whether at the atomic or elementary particle level. So one needs to attend to both linear and angular momentum conservation.</span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div id="yiv0970449734yui_3_16_0_1_1439663606211_10523">
<div>
<div class="yiv0970449734MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="color:black;"> </span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div id="yiv0970449734yui_3_16_0_1_1439663606211_10523">
<div>
<div class="yiv0970449734MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="color:black;">Add to this is the potential associated with certain models using scalar fields, and one ends up in GR where the speed of light is lower
within the amorphous array for whatever reason. </span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div id="yiv0970449734yui_3_16_0_1_1439663606211_10523">
<div>
<div class="yiv0970449734MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="color:black;"> </span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div id="yiv0970449734yui_3_16_0_1_1439663606211_10523">
<div>
<div class="yiv0970449734MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="color:black;">Finally, there is the question of NIH vs interference, especially at light like velocities.</span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div id="yiv0970449734yui_3_16_0_1_1439663606211_10523">
<div>
<div class="yiv0970449734MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="color:black;"> </span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div id="yiv0970449734yui_3_16_0_1_1439663606211_10523">
<div>
<div class="yiv0970449734MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="color:black;">Other than that, a great idea!</span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div id="yiv0970449734yui_3_16_0_1_1439663606211_10523">
<div>
<div class="yiv0970449734MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="color:black;"> </span></div>
</div>
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<div id="yiv0970449734yui_3_16_0_1_1439663606211_10523">
<div>
<div class="yiv0970449734MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="color:black;">David</span></div>
</div>
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<div id="yiv0970449734yui_3_16_0_1_1439663606211_10523">
<div>
<div class="yiv0970449734MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="color:black;"> </span></div>
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<div class="yiv0970449734MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="color:black;"> </span></div>
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<div class="yiv0970449734MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="color:black;"> </span></div>
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<div>
<div class="yiv0970449734MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="color:black;"> </span></div>
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<div id="yiv0970449734yui_3_16_0_1_1439663606211_10523">
<div>
<div class="yiv0970449734MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="color:black;"> </span></div>
</div>
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<div id="yiv0970449734yui_3_16_0_1_1439663606211_10523">
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<div class="yiv0970449734MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="color:black;"> </span></div>
</div>
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<div>
<div class="yiv0970449734MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white;">
<span style="color:black;"> </span></div>
</div>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #1010FF 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt;margin-left:3.75pt;margin-top:3.75pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt;">
<div id="yiv0970449734yui_3_16_0_1_1439663606211_10526">
<div id="yiv0970449734yui_3_16_0_1_1439663606211_10525">
<div id="yiv0970449734yui_3_16_0_1_1439663606211_10524">
<div class="yiv0970449734MsoNormal" style="text-align:center;background:white;" align="center">
<span style="color:black;">
<hr align="center" size="1" width="100%">
</span></div>
<div>
<div class="yiv0970449734MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:black;">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:black;"> John Macken <</span><a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:john@macken.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:john@macken.com"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;">john@macken.com</span></a><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:black;">><br>
<b>To:</b> Nature of Light and Particles <</span><a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;">general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</span></a><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:black;">>
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Saturday, August 15, 2015 9:50 AM<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [General] Light from Light reflection</span><span style="color:black;"></span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div id="yiv0970449734yui_3_16_0_1_1439663606211_10530">
<div>
<div class="yiv0970449734MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="color:black;"> </span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv0970449734">
<div id="yiv0970449734yui_3_16_0_1_1439663606211_10533">
<div id="yiv0970449734yui_3_16_0_1_1439663606211_10532">
<div id="yiv0970449734yui_3_16_0_1_1439663606211_10531">
<div>
<div class="yiv0970449734MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="color:black;">Hello All,</span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div id="yiv0970449734yui_3_16_0_1_1439663606211_10534">
<div>
<div class="yiv0970449734MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="color:black;"> </span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div id="yiv0970449734yui_3_16_0_1_1439663606211_10535">
<div>
<div class="yiv0970449734MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="color:black;">It was great meeting with all of you.
</span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div id="yiv0970449734yui_3_16_0_1_1439663606211_10536">
<div>
<div class="yiv0970449734MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="color:black;"> </span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div id="yiv0970449734yui_3_16_0_1_1439663606211_10538">
<div>
<div class="yiv0970449734MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="color:black;">I would like to introduce a different perspective to the discussion of the interaction of light with a thought experiment. Suppose that
we have a billion small microwave antennas randomly distributed in space. The antennas on average are separated by a distance equal to about 10% of the wavelength that they will emit and the size of each antenna is much smaller than a wavelength. A billion
of these antennas from a “cloud” about 100 wavelengths in diameter. If each antenna emits randomly, then the total cloud of antennas would emit an incoherent spherical emission pattern. However, if all antennas emit the same frequency and if the phase is
properly controlled, then the emitted radiation can form a beam with a divergence angle of about 0.01 radian. Furthermore, the beam can be steered to propagate in any direction with proper phase adjustment. When the emission forms a coherent beam, then the
cloud of antennas feels momentum in the opposite direction of the emitted radiation. This momentum would accelerate the cloud of antennas in the recoil direction.</span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div id="yiv0970449734yui_3_16_0_1_1439663606211_10710">
<div>
<div class="yiv0970449734MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="color:black;"> </span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div id="yiv0970449734yui_3_16_0_1_1439663606211_10709">
<div>
<div class="yiv0970449734MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="color:black;">The example just given is a simulation of what happens in a laser. Each atom in the excited state can either emit a photon by spontaneous
emission or by stimulated emission. When stimulated emission occurs, the emission is still generally spherical, but the phase of emission is coordinated so that part of the spherical emission is coherently added to the beam causing the stimulated emission.
The spherical emission of a single atom “interacts” with the other waves to form a collimated beam propagating in a particular direction. The force imparted to the emitting atom is random if the emission is spontaneous or in a particular direction if it is
stimulated. </span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div id="yiv0970449734yui_3_16_0_1_1439663606211_10713">
<div>
<div class="yiv0970449734MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="color:black;"> </span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div id="yiv0970449734yui_3_16_0_1_1439663606211_10706">
<div>
<div class="yiv0970449734MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="color:black;">In my way of looking at this, this example satisfies a loose definition of interaction of light waves. I assume that there might be a
way of looking at this in which it can be argued that there was no interaction of waves, but this position will require stretching of definitions.
</span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div id="yiv0970449734yui_3_16_0_1_1439663606211_10705">
<div>
<div class="yiv0970449734MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="color:black;"> </span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div id="yiv0970449734yui_3_16_0_1_1439663606211_10704">
<div>
<div class="yiv0970449734MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="color:black;">John M.</span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div id="yiv0970449734yui_3_16_0_1_1439663606211_10712">
<div>
<div class="yiv0970449734MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="color:black;"> </span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in;">
<div>
<div style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;">
<div class="yiv0970449734MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="color:black;"> </span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div id="yiv0970449734yqtfd78313">
<div>
<div>
<div class="yiv0970449734MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black;">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black;"> General [</span><a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:general-bounces+john=macken.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:general-bounces+john=macken.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">mailto:general-bounces+john=macken.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</span></a><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black;">]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>David Mathes<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, August 14, 2015 8:58 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion <</span><a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</span></a><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black;">>;
Andrew Meulenberg <</span><a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:mules333@gmail.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:mules333@gmail.com"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">mules333@gmail.com</span></a><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black;">><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [General] Light from Light reflection</span><span style="color:black;"></span></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div id="yiv0970449734yqtfd17187">
<div>
<div>
<div class="yiv0970449734MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="color:black;"> </span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div id="yiv0970449734yui_3_16_0_1_1439609808422_4409">
<div>
<div>
<div class="yiv0970449734MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="color:black;">Andrew</span></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div id="yiv0970449734yui_3_16_0_1_1439609808422_4410">
<div>
<div>
<div class="yiv0970449734MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="color:black;"> </span></div>
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<div id="yiv0970449734yui_3_16_0_1_1439609808422_4410">
<div>
<div>
<div class="yiv0970449734MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="color:black;">One paper that might be of interest is:</span></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div id="yiv0970449734yui_3_16_0_1_1439609808422_4410">
<div>
<div>
<div class="yiv0970449734MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="color:black;"> </span></div>
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<div>
<div>
<div class="yiv0970449734MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://arxiv.org/abs/1205.5897" title="Abstract" id="yiv0970449734yui_3_16_0_1_1439609808422_5064" title-off=""><b><span style="font-size:10.5pt;text-decoration:none;">arXiv:1205.5897</span></b></a><b><span style="font-size:10.5pt;color:black;"> [</span></b><a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://arxiv.org/pdf/1205.5897" title="Download PDF" id="yiv0970449734yui_3_16_0_1_1439609808422_5066" title-off=""><b><span style="font-size:10.5pt;text-decoration:none;">pdf</span></b></a><b><span style="font-size:10.5pt;color:black;">]</span></b><span style="color:black;"></span></div>
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<div id="yiv0970449734yui_3_16_0_1_1439609808422_5072" style="margin-top:3.0pt;">
<div style="margin-left:.5in;">
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<div class="yiv0970449734MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><b><span style="font-size:18.0pt;color:black;">Spin and Orbital Angular Momenta of Light Reflected from a Cone</span></b><span style="color:black;"></span></div>
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<div style="margin-left:.5in;">
<div>
<div class="yiv0970449734MsoNormal" style="line-height:14.05pt;background:white;">
<a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://arxiv.org/find/physics/1/au:+Mansuripur_M/0/1/0/all/0/1"><span style="text-decoration:none;">Masud Mansuripur</span></a><span style="color:black;">, </span><a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://arxiv.org/find/physics/1/au:+Zakharian_A/0/1/0/all/0/1" id="yiv0970449734yui_3_16_0_1_1439609808422_5078"><span style="text-decoration:none;">Armis
R. Zakharian</span></a><span style="color:black;">, </span><a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://arxiv.org/find/physics/1/au:+Wright_E/0/1/0/all/0/1" id="yiv0970449734yui_3_16_0_1_1439609808422_5080"><span style="text-decoration:none;">Ewan
M. Wright</span></a><span style="color:black;"></span></div>
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<div id="yiv0970449734yui_3_16_0_1_1439609808422_4412">
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<div>
<div class="yiv0970449734MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="color:black;">Another paper is:</span></div>
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<div id="yiv0970449734yui_3_16_0_1_1439609808422_4412">
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<div>
<div class="yiv0970449734MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="color:black;"> </span></div>
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<div>
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<div class="yiv0970449734MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="color:black;">Fearn 2012 </span><a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://arxiv.org/abs/1212.4469" id="yiv0970449734yui_3_16_0_1_1439609808422_4533"><span style="">[1212.4469]
Radiation Reaction Force on a Particle</span></a><span style="color:black;"></span></div>
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<div class="yiv0970449734MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="color:black;">David</span></div>
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<div class="yiv0970449734MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:black;">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:black;"> Andrew Meulenberg
<</span><a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:mules333@gmail.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:mules333@gmail.com"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;">mules333@gmail.com</span></a><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:black;">><br>
<b>To:</b> Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion <</span><a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;">general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</span></a><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:black;">>;
Andrew Meulenberg <</span><a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:mules333@gmail.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:mules333@gmail.com"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;">mules333@gmail.com</span></a><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:black;">>
<br>
<b id="yiv0970449734yui_3_16_0_1_1439609808422_4530">Sent:</b> Friday, August 14, 2015 8:36 PM<br>
<b id="yiv0970449734yui_3_16_0_1_1439609808422_4528">Subject:</b> Re: [General] Light from Light reflection</span><span style="color:black;"></span></div>
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<div id="yiv0970449734yui_3_16_0_1_1439609808422_4303">
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<div id="yiv0970449734yui_3_16_0_1_1439609808422_4367">
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<div>
<div class="yiv0970449734MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="color:black;">Forgot the paper.</span></div>
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<div class="yiv0970449734MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="color:black;"> </span></div>
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<div class="yiv0970449734MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="color:black;"> </span></div>
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<div id="yiv0970449734yui_3_16_0_1_1439609808422_4300">
<div>
<div style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;">
<div class="yiv0970449734MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="color:black;">On Fri, Aug 14, 2015 at 11:33 PM, Andrew Meulenberg <</span><a rel="nofollow" ymailto="mailto:mules333@gmail.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:mules333@gmail.com"><span style="">mules333@gmail.com</span></a><span style="color:black;">>
wrote:</span></div>
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</div>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt;">
<div id="yiv0970449734yui_3_16_0_1_1439609808422_4309">
<div id="yiv0970449734yui_3_16_0_1_1439609808422_4308">
<div id="yiv0970449734yui_3_16_0_1_1439609808422_4307">
<div style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;">
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<div class="yiv0970449734MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="color:black;">Gentlemen,</span></div>
</div>
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</div>
<div style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;">
<div>
<div class="yiv0970449734MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="color:black;">In discussions after Bob Hudgins' presentation on Wednesday, I realized that we had been too close to the problem (and solution) and did
not recognize the information gap that existed within the community. The reference was with regards to the nature of light-light interaction. The paper by Dowling (attached) identifies the problem between the NIW school and the light-light interaction school.</span></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;">
<div class="yiv0970449734MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="color:black;">It is necessary to emphasize and clarify some points.</span></div>
</div>
</div>
<ol start="1" style="margin-top:0in;" type="1">
<li class="yiv0970449734MsoNormal" id="yiv0970449734yui_3_16_0_1_1439609808422_5193" style="color:black;background:white;">
<span style="">Dowling proposed that IDENTICAL waves interact. However,
</span></li><li class="yiv0970449734MsoNormal" id="yiv0970449734yui_3_16_0_1_1439609808422_5353" style="color:black;background:white;">
<span style="">he was unable to PROVE reflection, rather than transmission.</span></li><li class="yiv0970449734MsoNormal" id="yiv0970449734yui_3_16_0_1_1439609808422_5354" style="color:black;background:white;">
<span style="">Mathematically the results are identical.</span></li><li class="yiv0970449734MsoNormal" id="yiv0970449734yui_3_16_0_1_1439609808422_5171" style="color:black;background:white;">
<span style="">In Dowling's paper, he demonstrates that even identical
<b>components</b> of colliding waves have this property.</span></li><li class="yiv0970449734MsoNormal" id="yiv0970449734yui_3_16_0_1_1439609808422_5173" style="color:black;background:white;">
<span style="">The difference of the colliding waves always is transmitted, not reflected.</span></li><li class="yiv0970449734MsoNormal" id="yiv0970449734yui_3_16_0_1_1439609808422_5174" style="color:black;background:white;">
<span style="">Therefore, when added to the identical portion (that is the reflected part), the sum becomes equivalent to a transmitted wave.</span></li><li class="yiv0970449734MsoNormal" id="yiv0970449734yui_3_16_0_1_1439609808422_5175" style="color:black;background:white;">
<span style="">The paper showed that the differences could be in:</span></li></ol>
<ol start="7" id="yiv0970449734yui_3_16_0_1_1439609808422_5177" style="margin-top:0in;" type="1">
<ol start="1" style="margin-top:0in;" type="1">
<li class="yiv0970449734MsoNormal" id="yiv0970449734yui_3_16_0_1_1439609808422_5176" style="color:black;background:white;">
<span style="">phase</span></li><li class="yiv0970449734MsoNormal" id="yiv0970449734yui_3_16_0_1_1439609808422_5178" style="color:black;background:white;">
<span style="">amplitude</span></li><li class="yiv0970449734MsoNormal" id="yiv0970449734yui_3_16_0_1_1439609808422_5184" style="color:black;background:white;">
<span style="">polarity</span></li><li class="yiv0970449734MsoNormal" id="yiv0970449734yui_3_16_0_1_1439609808422_5185" style="color:black;background:white;">
<span style="">change in frequency</span></li></ol>
</ol>
<div id="yiv0970449734yui_3_16_0_1_1439609808422_5188">
<div>
<div>
<div class="yiv0970449734MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="color:black;">Thus, while Chandra's NIW view is almost always correct, if based on numbers alone, there is a growing field (based on lasers), which
proves that interaction of identical light goes beyond Dirac's statement that photons can only interact with themselves. With this new information, it is possible to view ordinary light from a different perspective. "Any identical portions of light beams can
(and will) reflect from each other." </span></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div id="yiv0970449734yui_3_16_0_1_1439609808422_5187">
<div>
<div>
<div class="yiv0970449734MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="color:black;">An example of this can be demonstrated by an introductory-physics device (Newton's cradle,
</span><a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Momentum#Conservation"><span style="">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Momentum#Conservation</span></a><span style="color:black;">
). Only if equal numbers of balls are dropped simultaneously will there be reflection of the same number as the input. If unequal numbers are dropped simultaneously, then it would appear that the larger number of balls is transmitted thru the set of balls.
No one would say that the balls travel thru the stationary balls. Momentum reflection is the obvious answer in this case - and in the case of light.
</span></div>
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</div>
<div id="yiv0970449734yui_3_16_0_1_1439609808422_5192">
<div>
<div>
<div class="yiv0970449734MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="color:black;">Had Dowling remembered this demonstration, he would have been able to say with absolute authority that light can reflect from light. The
appendix of our paper is a mathematical proof of the null-momentum point in the center of the 'dark' zone for equal waves. This is the wave equivalent of the equal-particle demonstration.</span></div>
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<div id="yiv0970449734yui_3_16_0_1_1439609808422_5191">
<div>
<div>
<div class="yiv0970449734MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="color:black;">My task for the next conference may be to demonstrate how this reflection effect affects the photon structure within the electron.</span></div>
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<div id="yiv0970449734yui_3_16_0_1_1439609808422_5190">
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<div class="yiv0970449734MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="color:black;">Andrew</span></div>
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