<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=windows-1252"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class=""><div class="">Hi all,</div><div class=""> Just by looking at the the dimensions of the QED fine structure constant alpha = e^2/hbar c = approx 1/137 we can see what is important in the interaction between a photon and an electron is the electron’s charge -e, the photon’s speed c (and possibly the electron’s internal speed c) and the spins of the photon and/or the electron. We can’t get alpha from Maxwell’s equations, can we?</div><div class=""> Richard</div><br class=""><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Aug 31, 2015, at 4:25 AM, Chip Akins <<a href="mailto:chipakins@gmail.com" class="">chipakins@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">Hi John W. Andrew, and David<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">John W. and David<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">It is my belief that Maxwell’s equations MUST be extended, and that the observations which brought Chandra to propose the CTF is one reason.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">We see that light reacts with matter more readily than light reacts with light. We see that the energy in matter is in many ways similar to the energy in light. And we see that the energy in matter is confined by something not described by Maxwell’s equations.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">We can see properties displayed by various forms of the propagation of energy in space, like spin, and confinement, which were not addressed by Maxwell.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">So I see Chandra’s CTF to be the space which supports the real set of properties, and an extension to Maxwell’s equations to be required in order to sort this out, specifically because of the reaction of space, to energy propagating through space.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">It is interesting that Pauli exclusion, and spin ˝, and often charge, is present in matter, and that with these properties, this energy can apparently more easily react with light.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">So far, in my research, this has indicated again that the “spin mode” of matter is a significant contributor to the ability of matter to react with light waves. However, it also seems that it will be quite difficult to use light alone to create the correct circumstances to produce this “spin mode”. So making matter from light will be a very elusive pursuit, it seems.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">When this energy is localized, that is to say confined, it takes on a new topology. For Martin’s hierarchy to work, for stable particles to exist, there is required to be more to the properties of space, and its reaction to energy, than Maxwell calculated.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">While, on the surface, it may seem that many of us have totally different ideas, I think that is more a matter of perspective, as John W. has pointed out, and that we are all using those different perspectives, and moving toward the same set of conclusions eventually.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""> </span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">Andrew<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">The beam splitter will not “destroy” the standing wave. It will reduce the intensity of the standing wave to about 25%. But this is enough to detect if light is being reflected from light in this standing wave, using a test setup like the one suggested. If even half the light in the standing wave portion of the beam is reflected you may see as much as a<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="">12.5% decrease</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>in the intensity with the mirror in place. But I suspect that none of the light is reflected, and you will see no change in the detector output with the mirror in place, or removed.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">Chip<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""> </span></p><div class=""><div style="border-style: solid none none; border-top-color: rgb(225, 225, 225); border-top-width: 1pt; padding: 3pt 0in 0in;" class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><b class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt;" class="">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 11pt;" class=""><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>General [<a href="mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" style="color: rgb(149, 79, 114); text-decoration: underline;" class="">mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>]<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="">On Behalf Of<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>John Williamson<br class=""><b class="">Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Sunday, August 30, 2015 9:41 PM<br class=""><b class="">To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion <<a href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" style="color: rgb(149, 79, 114); text-decoration: underline;" class="">general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>><br class=""><b class="">Cc:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Joakim Pettersson <<a href="mailto:joakimbits@gmail.com" style="color: rgb(149, 79, 114); text-decoration: underline;" class="">joakimbits@gmail.com</a>>; Nick Bailey <<a href="mailto:nick@bailey-family.org.uk" style="color: rgb(149, 79, 114); text-decoration: underline;" class="">nick@bailey-family.org.uk</a>>; Manohar . <<a href="mailto:manohar_berlin@hotmail.com" style="color: rgb(149, 79, 114); text-decoration: underline;" class="">manohar_berlin@hotmail.com</a>>; Ariane Mandray <<a href="mailto:ariane.mandray@wanadoo.fr" style="color: rgb(149, 79, 114); text-decoration: underline;" class="">ariane.mandray@wanadoo.fr</a>><br class=""><b class="">Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [General] Verification of Light Interactions<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p class=""> </o:p></p><div class=""><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="" class="">Dear All,<br class=""><br class="">I scarcely know where to start. How can I agree with so much of what you are all saying and yet disagree, in detail, with all of you. Let me try to communicate that.<br class=""><br class="">This email is likely to seem to contradict itself. Let me set your mind at rest: it does!<br class=""><br class="">The reason is that I am going to argue from a few different perspectives, and different perspectives give different perspectives. Funny that!<br class=""><br class="">Firstly, from the perspective of the (linear) Maxwell equations. The NIW of pure-field light-light interactions as described by Maxwell is linear. Superposition applies. Interference is a bad word for interference (as Chandra has emphasised). The "I" in NIW is a different thing entirely from the "interference" of light with light. This leads to the following manifestly true(if not very helpful) statement : interference is not interference.<br class=""><br class="">Maxwell is very very good. It is (as far as I know, sub pair production threshold and within its realm of validity) supported 100 percent by known experiment. Indeed photons do not "interfere only with themselves". Experimentally, they superpose on other photons. Linearly. Any simulation based on this is going to show this. Likewise, in light-light only interactions it is going to (very likely) agree with experiment. Conclusion: light does not reflect from light.<br class=""><br class="">Wait a minute: are not some of us arguing that "everything is made from (the same stuff as) light"?<br class=""><br class="">What is going on?<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""><br class="">So: lets expand the perspective to include matter. And its experimental properties. Matter does interact with light. Mirrors reflect it. Material refracts it. Atoms absorb and emit it. Material particles may annihilate to give pure light. In fact it is continuously created and destroyed.</span><span style="" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="" class="">This is not just a bit of interference (in either meaning of the word above) this is life or death for light.<br class=""><br class="">Conclusion: one needs to go beyond (just) Maxwell if one wishes to describe this.</span><span style="" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="" class="">HOW?<br class=""><br class="">One could go to QED. Then light interacts with light via a "box" diagram.</span><span style="" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="" class=""><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QED_vacuum" style="color: rgb(149, 79, 114); text-decoration: underline;" class="">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QED_vacuum</a><o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="" class="">Ok … but is this the whole story? I think not. QED does not, can not, and will never explain the physical properties it puts in a-priori. This is true of any theory. It puts in point, massive, charges. Also: all it does is provide (miniscule) corrections to what Maxwell says, until you get right up to the pair-production threshold (and even there Maxwell is nearly 100 percent right). Material particles do not bind themselves with miniscule corrections.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="" class="">No, we need a theory that allows the topological confinement of light. Something that allows an extra degree of freedom, over and above the pure fields.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="" class="">Now this could be Chandra’s CTF, it could be an extension of Maxwell along some of the lines Martin and I are considering, or it could be something else. That is what all this is about.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="" class="">For me, for what it is worth, this extra thing does reside in the extra degrees of freedom that David was talking about, over and above the fields, afforded by such things as the angular momentum (T) p-vot (P) and quadrivector (Q) terms in the equations proposed.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="" class="">Anyway, matter happens, so it has got to be something!<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="" class="">If so, then Bob and Andrew are right and we should be thinking of experiments to try to throw light on matter. I’ve suggested a few in the papers. We should think of more.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="" class="">Cheers, John W.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><div class=""><div class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; text-align: center;"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><hr size="2" width="100%" align="center" class=""></span></div><div id="divRpF22927" class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><b class=""><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;" class="">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;" class=""><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>General [<a href="mailto:general-bounces+john.williamson=glasgow.ac.uk@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" style="color: rgb(149, 79, 114); text-decoration: underline;" class="">general-bounces+john.williamson=glasgow.ac.uk@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>] on behalf of Andrew Meulenberg [<a href="mailto:mules333@gmail.com" style="color: rgb(149, 79, 114); text-decoration: underline;" class="">mules333@gmail.com</a>]<br class=""><b class="">Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Monday, August 31, 2015 12:55 AM<br class=""><b class="">To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion<br class=""><b class="">Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [General] Verification of Light Interactions</span><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></p></div><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">Dear Chip,<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">You are thinking along the right lines. However, your example won't work. It requires a beam splitter (or sampler) that will not 'destroy' the standing wave. If there is no reflected wave at some point, the whole standing wave collapses.<br class=""><br class="">On the other hand, this exercise may have also proved my hypothesis incorrect (that only slightly more than 1/2 of the incident beam will reach the physical mirror - I need to do the math).<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">It might be possible to set up standing waves in something like the figure below. Measuring the intensity of the evanescent waves at sequential reflection points might prove, or disprove, the point.<br class=""><span id="cid:image004.png@01D0E3AE.F4162110"><image004.png></span><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">I need to think about the details of such an experiment; however, I'm not sure that the intensity will diminish at the far end, if the aligned mirror is added.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">It is worth thinking about.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">Andrew<br class="">_______________________________<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""> </span></div><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">On Sun, Aug 30, 2015 at 5:23 PM, Chip Akins <<a href="mailto:chipakins@gmail.com" target="_blank" style="color: rgb(149, 79, 114); text-decoration: underline;" class="">chipakins@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><blockquote style="border-style: none none none solid; border-left-color: rgb(204, 204, 204); border-left-width: 1pt; padding: 0in 0in 0in 6pt; margin-left: 4.8pt; margin-right: 0in;" class="" type="cite"><div class=""><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="" class="">Dear Andrew<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="" class="">Then if you set up this experiment.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="" class=""><span id="cid:image005.png@01D0E3AE.F4162110"><image005.png></span><o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="" class="">And then remove the mirror, if wave reflection is occurring in the beams of light,<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b class=""><i class="">you would see the light intensity increase at the bottom detector</i></b>. Without wave reflection the bottom detector will register about 50% of the beam intensity.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="" class="">But if wave reflection does occur then the bottom detector would measure significantly less than this value, and the intensity at the bottom detector would increase to about 50% when the left mirror is removed.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="" class="">If wave reflection does not occur, you would see no significant change in the bottom detector output, with or without the mirror.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="" class="">Chip<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><b class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt;" class="">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 11pt;" class=""><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>General [mailto:<a href="mailto:general-bounces%2Bchipakins" target="_blank" style="color: rgb(149, 79, 114); text-decoration: underline;" class="">general-bounces+chipakins</a>=<a href="mailto:gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank" style="color: rgb(149, 79, 114); text-decoration: underline;" class="">gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>]<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="">On Behalf Of<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Andrew Meulenberg<br class=""><b class="">Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Sunday, August 30, 2015 2:25 PM<br class=""><b class="">To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion <<a href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank" style="color: rgb(149, 79, 114); text-decoration: underline;" class="">general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>>; Andrew Meulenberg <<a href="mailto:mules333@gmail.com" target="_blank" style="color: rgb(149, 79, 114); text-decoration: underline;" class="">mules333@gmail.com</a>><br class=""><b class="">Cc:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Mary Fletcher <<a href="mailto:marycfletcher@gmail.com" target="_blank" style="color: rgb(149, 79, 114); text-decoration: underline;" class="">marycfletcher@gmail.com</a>>; robert hudgins <<a href="mailto:hudginswr@msn.com" target="_blank" style="color: rgb(149, 79, 114); text-decoration: underline;" class="">hudginswr@msn.com</a>></span><span style="" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=""><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><br class=""><b class="">Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [General] Verification of Light Interactions<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><div class=""><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;" class="">Dear Chip,</span><span style="" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></p></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;" class="">Thank you for your thinking about the problem and your comments. You have identified several areas in which we need to clarify and/or emphasize our language. See comments below.</span><span style="" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;" class="">On Sun, Aug 30, 2015 at 9:02 AM, Chip Akins <<a href="mailto:chipakins@gmail.com" target="_blank" style="color: rgb(149, 79, 114); text-decoration: underline;" class="">chipakins@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</span><span style="" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><blockquote style="border-style: none none none solid; border-left-color: windowtext; border-left-width: 1pt; padding: 0in 0in 0in 6pt; margin: 5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;" class="" type="cite"><div class=""><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;" class="">Hi Andrew</span><span style="" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;" class=""> </span><span style="" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;" class="">There are at least a couple of ways to show that reflection does not occur.</span><span style="" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;" class=""> </span><span style="" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;" class="">Varying phase or frequency of one wave and looking at where the changes occur is one fairly clear method. No two waves are identical in all respects, so arguing that only two identical waves can reflect is a mute and empty point.</span><span style="" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></p></div></div></blockquote><div class=""><ol start="1" type="1" style="margin-bottom: 0in; margin-top: 0in;" class=""><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;" class="">The identical part is for<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="">components</b>, not necessarily for the whole wave. However, if all components are identical, then the waves are also. This identity of waves is mathematically possible. It is also possible for a single wave to be 'identical' with itself (this is important in the photon-to-electron transition) or for<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="">portions</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>of a single wave (e.g., a split beam) to be identical.</span><o:p class=""></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;" class="">For intersecting coherent waves, the phases will become coincident with specific phase angles, in specific portions of space. Where the phases differ by 180 degrees (the null zones), reflection of identical components occurs.</span><o:p class=""></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;" class="">Non-identical portions do not reflect, they transmit. This is a common source of 'error' in the analysis of standing waves created by reflection of normally incident light from a physical mirror. Since reflection and transmission in space is generally not loss (or divergence) free, there will always be a 'flow' of light to the mirror. Only identical portions are reflected before reaching the mirror. Think about this: most of the incident light never reaches the physical mirror.<b class=""><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>It reflects before it ever gets there.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Can you simulate that by assuming no transmission of identical light? Simulation of a Bragg reflector might be similar to this concept.</span><o:p class=""></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;" class="">Re varying phase: see Dowling's section IV<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="">Phase Labeling</b></span><o:p class=""></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;" class="">Re varying frequency: see Dowling's section V<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="">Detuning</b></span><o:p class=""></o:p></li></ol></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;" class="">To make our point, we will need to emphasize that:</span><span style="" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></p></div><div class=""><ol start="1" type="1" style="margin-bottom: 0in; margin-top: 0in;" class=""><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;" class=""> it is only the identical components of the waves that reflect;</span><o:p class=""></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;" class="">the reflection plane (the 'mirror') is the bisector of the intersection angle.</span><o:p class=""></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;" class="">There is no way to distinguish the reflected and transmitted beams visually or within the limits of the wave theory. Amplitudes, phases and directions are identical.</span><o:p class=""></o:p></li></ol></div><blockquote style="border-style: none none none solid; border-left-color: windowtext; border-left-width: 1pt; padding: 0in 0in 0in 6pt; margin: 5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;" class="" type="cite"><div class=""><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;" class=""><br class=""> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span style="" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></p></div></div></blockquote><blockquote style="border-style: none none none solid; border-left-color: windowtext; border-left-width: 1pt; padding: 0in 0in 0in 6pt; margin: 5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;" class="" type="cite"><div class=""><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;" class="">But there exists another method to test for reflection:</span><span style="" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;" class=""> </span><span style="" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;" class="">If we start with this configuration…</span><span style="" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;" class=""><image006.jpg></span><span style="" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;" class="">And reflection occurs, then we would have the reflected components, as shown in red below…</span><span style="" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;" class=""> </span><span style="" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;" class=""><image007.jpg></span><span style="" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;" class="">But we do not see these reflected components in simulation or in experiments.</span><span style="" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;" class="">So why chase, and try to prove, something for which there is no evidence?</span><span style="" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></p></div></div></blockquote><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></span></p></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;" class="">Chip, you have missed an important point. The reflection planes are the bisector or are parallel to the bisector of the beams. you have not shown that. You have shown reflection from the other beam (this doubles the reflection angle). There should be no reflected energy in the directions that you have indicated. We will need to emphasize that point in the future.</span><span style="" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></p></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><b class=""><span style="font-size: 10pt;" class="">From your next email, you state:</span></b><span style="" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt 30pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;" class="">Hi Andrew</span><span style="" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt 30pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;" class=""> </span><span style="" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt 30pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;" class="">Let me rephrase my argument.</span><span style="" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt 30pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;" class=""> </span><span style="" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt 30pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><b class=""><span style="font-size: 10pt;" class="">First</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt;" class="">,<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><i class="">we know that transmission occurs</i>,<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><i class="">because we know that the waves propagate</i>. <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span style="" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;" class="">Correct</span><span style="" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt 30pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt 30pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;" class="">Then, when we cause two waves to become coincident, we see the expected interference pattern for<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><i class="">transmission</i>. <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span style="" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;" class="">Correct</span><span style="" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt 30pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt 30pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;" class="">And we measure the<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="">intensity, phase, and frequency</b>, of the output of the two waves, as if they passed through each other, without interaction.</span><span style="" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;" class="">Correct</span><span style="" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;" class="">However, we can also say:</span><span style="" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><b class=""><span style="font-size: 10pt;" class="">First</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt;" class="">,<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><i class="">we know that<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="">reflection</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>occurs</i>,<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><i class="">because we know that the waves<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="">reflect</b></i>. Then, when we cause two waves to become coincident, we see the expected interference pattern for<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b class=""><i class="">reflection of identical components</i></b>. And we measure the<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="">intensity, phase, and frequency</b>, of the output of the two waves, as if their equal components reflected each other,<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="">with</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>the interaction.</span><span style="" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;" class=""> </span><span style="" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt 30pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;" class=""> </span><span style="" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt 30pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><b class=""><span style="font-size: 10pt;" class="">Second</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt;" class="">, we do not see the reflections at the locations they would have to exist,<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><i class="">if we vary the angles of incidence</i><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>through a full 360 degrees, and look for reflections. In this,<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="">we only see the transmitted components</b>.</span><span style="" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;" class="">However, we can also say:</span><span style="" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><b class=""><span style="font-size: 10pt;" class="">Second</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt;" class="">, we<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="">do</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>see the reflections at the locations they would have to exist,<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><i class="">if we vary the convergence angles of incidence</i><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>through a full 360 degrees and look for reflections. However,<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="">we cannot distinguish them from transmitted components</b>.</span><span style="" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt 30pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;" class=""> </span><span style="" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><div style="margin-left: 30pt;" class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;" class="">So for me, those findings constitute sufficient “proof”.</span><span style="" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></p></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><b class=""><span style="font-size: 10pt;" class="">If the alternative statements above are also 'true', do you still consider the findings sufficient for your proof?<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt;" class="">I, like Dowling and Gea-Banacloche, find the math ambiguous and in need of additional physics to resolve the issue. I feel that we have provided that in our papers.</span><span style="" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></p></div><div class=""><div style="margin-left: 30pt;" class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></span></p></div><div style="margin-left: 30pt;" class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;" class="">In your most recent email, you state: " If you conduct this experiment, and there are no waves following the red paths, then it seems it must mean that no reflection occurred at the intersection of the waves."</span><span style="" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></p></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></span></p></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;" class="">First let me thank you for the figure. It provides some additional detail and information on the interference region. However, I believe that there are 2 errors.</span><span style="" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><ol start="1" type="1" style="margin-bottom: 0in; margin-top: 0in;" class=""><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;" class="">The reflection plane should be the null-zone (across the center), not the other beam. The red lines are incorrectly placed.</span><o:p class=""></o:p></li><li class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;" class="">I think that the diagonal blue 'arrow' is reversed. If it is as shown by the arrowhead, then the null zone would be diagonally 'down', rather than 'up' as shown.</span><o:p class=""></o:p></li></ol><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 10pt;" class="">Chip, you bring some powerful tools to the group. If we can work together to get the reflection picture properly expressed in your model then Dowling's paper would be confirmed and the momentum analysis that we provided would resolve the issue.</span><span style="" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 10pt;" class="">It might seem that transmission or reflection that produce the same results has no significance. However, the distinction provides important information for both the photonic electron and the nature of photons and their interactions. I can detail some of these things in the future. Some of it is in my other papers. I'll send them later.</span><span style="" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 10pt;" class="">Andrew</span><span style="" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 7.5pt;" class=""> _______________________</span><span style="" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></p></div><blockquote style="border-style: none none none solid; border-left-color: windowtext; border-left-width: 1pt; padding: 0in 0in 0in 6pt; margin: 5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;" class="" type="cite"><div class=""><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 7.5pt;" class=""> </span><span style="" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 7.5pt;" class="">Chip</span><span style="" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 7.5pt;" class=""> </span><span style="" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 7.5pt;" class=""> </span><span style="" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><b class=""><span style="font-size: 7.5pt;" class="">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 7.5pt;" class=""><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>General [mailto:<a href="mailto:general-bounces%2Bchipakins" target="_blank" style="color: rgb(149, 79, 114); text-decoration: underline;" class="">general-bounces+chipakins</a>=<a href="mailto:gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank" style="color: rgb(149, 79, 114); text-decoration: underline;" class="">gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>]<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="">On Behalf Of<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Andrew Meulenberg<br class=""><b class="">Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Saturday, August 29, 2015 9:43 PM<br class=""><b class="">To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion <<a href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank" style="color: rgb(149, 79, 114); text-decoration: underline;" class="">general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>>; Andrew Meulenberg <<a href="mailto:mules333@gmail.com" target="_blank" style="color: rgb(149, 79, 114); text-decoration: underline;" class="">mules333@gmail.com</a>><br class=""><b class="">Cc:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>robert hudgins <<a href="mailto:hudginswr@msn.com" target="_blank" style="color: rgb(149, 79, 114); text-decoration: underline;" class="">hudginswr@msn.com</a>></span><span style="" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><div class=""><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 7.5pt;" class=""><br class=""><b class="">Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [General] Verification of Light Interactions</span><span style="" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></p></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 7.5pt;" class=""> </span><span style="" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 7.5pt;" class="">Dear Chip and Chandra,</span><span style="" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></p></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 7.5pt;" class="">I will not have time to contribute much to this topic until next week. Before then, I hope that both of you will have a chance to read both Dowling's paper attached to my email of:</span><span style="" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><div class=""><div style="margin-left: 30pt;" class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 7.5pt;" class="">Fri, Aug 14, 2015 at 11:33 PM</span><span style="" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></p></div><div style="margin-left: 30pt;" class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 7.5pt;" class="">Light from Light reflection</span><span style="" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></p></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 7.5pt;" class="">and my comments on it in the email.<br class=""><br class="">Also, please look at the attached copy of our paper for the conference. Comments would be appreciated for both papers, since Dowling is a much better mathematical physicist than any of us and Chip's simulations agree 100% with the 1st 1/2 of Dowling's paper. To agree with the second 1/2, Chip needs to run his simulations assuming only reflected light and no transmitted light for equal components of the incident waves (assuming reflection from the null zones of the interference pattern). I will predict (as did Dowling's mathematics) that, for the equal waves, the results will be identical with Chip's figures 1 & 2. For his Figure 3, there will only be a component corresponding to the beat frequency envelope of the incident waves.</span><span style="" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></p></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 7.5pt;" class="">Thus a conclusion based on those results could be, to modify Chips comment, is:</span><span style="" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><div style="margin-left: 30pt;" class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 7.5pt;" class="">"The interference patterns we see in experiment, agree with the simulated interference patterns. And these are obtained simply by the waves REFLECTING FROM each other. So there seems to be no physical basis for assuming any TRANSMISSION, when IDENTICAL waves ENCOUNTER each other."</span><span style="" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></p></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 7.5pt;" class="">The resolution of the two statements is Dowling's conclusion (and mine in the email):</span><span style="" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></p></div><div style="margin-left: 30pt;" class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 7.5pt;" class="">"Dowling proposed that IDENTICAL waves interact. However, he was unable to PROVE reflection, rather than transmission."</span><span style="" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></p></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 7.5pt;" class="">I will extend that statement to contend that Chip, based on his simulations, will be unable to PROVE transmission, rather than reflection of identical waves.</span><span style="" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></p></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 7.5pt;" class="">For background, consider the basis for Bose-Einstein (<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bose%E2%80%93Einstein_statistics" target="_blank" style="color: rgb(149, 79, 114); text-decoration: underline;" class="">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bose%E2%80%93Einstein_statistics</a>) and Dirac statistics (<a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fermi%E2%80%93Dirac_statistics" target="_blank" style="color: rgb(149, 79, 114); text-decoration: underline;" class="">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fermi%E2%80%93Dirac_statistics</a>) for non-interacting, identical particles. Does this resolve, or increase, the conflict between Chandra's NIW view and our contention that the observed interference region demands interference between two waves?</span><span style="" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></p></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 7.5pt;" class="">Andrew</span><span style="" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 7.5pt;" class="">_________________________________---</span><span style="" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="" class=""> </span></p><blockquote style="border-style: none none none solid; border-left-color: windowtext; border-left-width: 1pt; padding: 0in 0in 0in 6pt; margin: 5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;" class="" type="cite"><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div style="border-style: solid none none; border-top-color: windowtext; border-top-width: 1pt; padding: 3pt 0in 0in;" class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><b class=""><span style="font-size: 7.5pt;" class="">To:</span></b><span style="font-size: 7.5pt;" class=""><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion <<a href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank" style="color: rgb(149, 79, 114); text-decoration: underline;" class="">general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>></span><span style="" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><div class=""><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 7.5pt;" class=""><br class=""><b class="">Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [General] Verification of Light Interactions</span><span style="" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 7.5pt;" class=""> </span><span style="" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 7.5pt;" class="">Chip A. and Bob H.:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span style="" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 7.5pt;" class=""> </span><span style="" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 7.5pt;" class="">Here is a copy of the animation by my student, Michael Ambroselli, which I have been showing people for several years now. The stationary pictures are now in several papers and also in my book.</span><span style="" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 7.5pt;" class=""> </span><span style="" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 7.5pt;" class="">Of course, it does not show “reflection” of waves by waves; because we use the same prevalent model of superposition of wave amplitudes as simply linear sum of the propagating waves. We did not put in any wave-wave interaction term. Even people who firmly believe in “single photon interference”, sum the linear amplitudes. Some resonant detectors, if inserted within the volume of superposition, can carry out the non-linear square modulus operation to absorb the proportionate energy out of<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b class=""><i class="">both the fields</i></b>, not just one or the other, as is erroneously assumed by most believers of “single photon interference”, defying the starting math of summing two amplitudes a1 and a2. The energy absorbed is proportional to: [(a1)-squared+(a2)-squared+ 2a1a2 cos2(pi)(nu)(t2-t1)]. Linear waves do not have the intrinsic physical capacity to carry out the mathematical quadratic operation.</span><span style="" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 7.5pt;" class=""> </span><span style="" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 7.5pt;" class="">Chandra.</span><a name="14f807eaaf50ea2a_14f7fc6ed4bf9e19_14f7fa" class=""></a><span style="" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><div class=""><div style="border-style: solid none none; border-top-color: windowtext; border-top-width: 1pt; padding: 3pt 0in 0in;" class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><b class=""><span style="font-size: 7.5pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;" class="">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 7.5pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;" class=""><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>General [<a href="mailto:general-bounces+chandra.roychoudhuri=uconn.edu@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank" style="color: rgb(149, 79, 114); text-decoration: underline;" class="">mailto:general-bounces+chandra.roychoudhuri=uconn.edu@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>]<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="">On Behalf Of<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Chip Akins<br class=""><b class="">Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Saturday, August 29, 2015 1:22 PM<br class=""><b class="">To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>'robert hudgins';<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank" style="color: rgb(149, 79, 114); text-decoration: underline;" class="">general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a><br class=""><b class="">Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [General] Verification of Light Interactions</span><span style="" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 7.5pt;" class=""> </span><span style="" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 7.5pt;" class="">Hi Robert Hudgins</span><span style="" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 7.5pt;" class=""> </span><span style="" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 7.5pt;" class="">Thank you for the email. Your concepts show an “out-of-the-box” imagination, and so they were intriguing to me.</span><span style="" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 7.5pt;" class=""> </span><span style="" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 7.5pt;" class="">So far, I have run some simulations to see what the interference patterns would be for waves<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><i class="">which did not reflect off each other at all</i>. The way I know that these simulated waves do not reflect, is of course<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="">because I wrote the simulations to explicitly show only two waves passing through each other, with no ability to reflect off each other</b>.</span><span style="" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 7.5pt;" class=""> </span><span style="" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 7.5pt;" class="">Here are the results of some of those simulations:</span><span style="" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 7.5pt;" class=""> </span><span style="" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 7.5pt;" class="">Image: 1, Left Side, Two waves of the same frequency and phase, incident at 45 degrees.</span><span style="" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 7.5pt;" class="">Image: 2, Right Side, Two waves of the same frequency with 180 degree phase shift, incident at 45 degrees.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="">Note the expected interference pattern and no reflection.</b></span><span style="" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span id="cid:image008.jpg@01D0E3AE.F4162110"><image008.jpg></span><span id="cid:image009.jpg@01D0E3AE.F4162110"><image009.jpg></span><span style="font-size: 7.5pt;" class=""> </span><span style="" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 7.5pt;" class=""> </span><span style="" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 7.5pt;" class=""> </span><span style="" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 7.5pt;" class=""> </span><span style="" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 7.5pt;" class=""> </span><span style="" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 7.5pt;" class=""> </span><span style="" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 7.5pt;" class=""> </span><span style="" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 7.5pt;" class=""> </span><span style="" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 7.5pt;" class=""> </span><span style="" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 7.5pt;" class=""> </span><span style="" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 7.5pt;" class=""> </span><span style="" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 7.5pt;" class=""> </span><span style="" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 7.5pt;" class=""> </span><span style="" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 7.5pt;" class=""> </span><span style="" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 7.5pt;" class=""> </span><span style="" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 7.5pt;" class=""> </span><span style="" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 7.5pt;" class="">Image: 3, two waves of different frequencies passing through each other.</span><span style="" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span id="cid:image010.jpg@01D0E3AE.F4162110"><image010.jpg></span><span style="font-size: 7.5pt;" class=""> </span><span style="" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 7.5pt;" class=""> </span><span style="" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 7.5pt;" class=""> </span><span style="" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 7.5pt;" class=""> </span><span style="" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 7.5pt;" class=""> </span><span style="" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 7.5pt;" class=""> </span><span style="" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 7.5pt;" class=""> </span><span style="" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 7.5pt;" class=""> </span><span style="" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 7.5pt;" class=""> </span><span style="" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 7.5pt;" class=""> </span><span style="" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 7.5pt;" class=""> </span><span style="" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 7.5pt;" class=""> </span><span style="" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 7.5pt;" class=""> </span><span style="" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 7.5pt;" class=""> </span><span style="" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 7.5pt;" class=""> </span><span style="" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 7.5pt;" class="">So far, using simulations, and varying angles of incidence,<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="">we are able to reproduce the experimentally observed interference patterns</b>.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="">And this is done with no reflection of waves. <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b></span><span style="" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 7.5pt;" class=""> </span><span style="" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 7.5pt;" class="">So, sorry, I do not see any physical reason to assume that waves reflect off one another.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span style="" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 7.5pt;" class=""> </span><span style="" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 7.5pt;" class=""> </span><span style="" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 7.5pt;" class="">Chip</span><span style="" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 7.5pt;" class=""> </span><span style="" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 7.5pt;" class=""> </span><span style="" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><div class=""><div style="border-style: solid none none; border-top-color: windowtext; border-top-width: 1pt; padding: 3pt 0in 0in;" class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><b class=""><span style="font-size: 7.5pt;" class="">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 7.5pt;" class=""><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>robert hudgins [<a href="mailto:hudginswr@msn.com" target="_blank" style="color: rgb(149, 79, 114); text-decoration: underline;" class="">mailto:hudginswr@msn.com</a>]<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""><b class="">Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Friday, August 28, 2015 9:58 AM<br class=""><b class="">To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:chipakins@gmail.com" target="_blank" style="color: rgb(149, 79, 114); text-decoration: underline;" class="">chipakins@gmail.com</a>;<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank" style="color: rgb(149, 79, 114); text-decoration: underline;" class="">general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a><br class=""><b class="">Cc:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>robert hudgins <<a href="mailto:hudginswr@msn.com" target="_blank" style="color: rgb(149, 79, 114); text-decoration: underline;" class="">hudginswr@msn.com</a>>; Ralph Penland <<a href="mailto:rpenland@gmail.com" target="_blank" style="color: rgb(149, 79, 114); text-decoration: underline;" class="">rpenland@gmail.com</a>>; Andrew meulenberg <<a href="mailto:mules333@gmail.com" target="_blank" style="color: rgb(149, 79, 114); text-decoration: underline;" class="">mules333@gmail.com</a>><br class=""><b class="">Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Verification of Light Interactions</span><span style="" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 7.5pt;" class=""> </span><span style="" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 7.5pt;" class="">Dear Chip,<br class=""><br class=""> To have our SPIE presentation, with its data, receive a broad, non-specific and vocal rejection from many attendees was personally confusing. From our perspective, those results (and ideas) had been thoroughly tested, retested and reconciled with current literature. The openness you indicated by your intent to try replicating some our results felt refreshing.<br class=""><br class="">What follows are some pointers about possible ways to work-around the problem of short wavelength intervals:<br class=""><br class="">The standing wave frequency is 1/2 the wave length of the light used. Consequently, some method of expansion is usually required for clear visualization of a standing wave pattern. Many investigators use Otto Wiener's 1890 method or some variation. Recently, a simplified classroom demonstration procedure was published.<br class=""><br class=""><a href="http://scitation.aip.org/content/aapt/journal/ajp/77/8/10.1119/1.3027506" target="_blank" style="color: rgb(149, 79, 114); text-decoration: underline;" class="">http://scitation.aip.org/content/aapt/journal/ajp/77/8/10.1119/1.3027506</a><br class=""><br class="">Standing waves of light in the form of optical lattices are currently a workhorse for manipulating ultra-cold bosons and fermions. The atoms are trapped between the oscillating potentials.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""><br class=""><br class="">Another important standing wave/interference demonstration is the 1837 Lloyd's mirror experiment. <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""><br class=""><br class="">For our study we used a precision 15 X 5cm mirror. A laser beam was reflected a shallow angle and the resulting interference pattern was examined after expanding its image. This was accomplished with a convex mirror placed near the end of the reflection zone. We did this experiment to demonstrate that a mirror reflection would substitute for one of the beams in a two crossing-beam interference pattern, and that the null zones in the crossed-beam interference behaved as mirror--like reflection zones. <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""><br class="">The set-up we use for our interference studies is very simple. It requires only two components; a laser and a variable density filter. The variable density filter becomes a beam splitter when the laser beam is reflected from both the front and the back (partially mirrored) surface. Adjusting the relative intensities and phases of the emerging beams is accomplished by changing the reflection angle and the point where the beam strikes the splitter. Proper adjustment should give two clearly separated, and independent beams. This system gives clear, unambiguous results.<br class=""><br class="">We began our pursuit as a search for the "cancelled" energy of light interference. It was quickly obvious that<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="">all the light energy</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>in the beams emerging from the beam splitter was detectable in the interference patterns, that formed at some distance from the splitter. (Well after the beams had merged.) Although interference confined the light to a smaller area, (compressed the light) we found no evidence of "cancelled" light waves (energy) or of photodetector limitations. <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span style="" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></p><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 7.5pt;" class=""> </span><span style="" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 7.5pt;" class="">Hudgins, W. R., Meulenberg, A., Ramadass, S., “Evidence for unmediated momentum transfer between light waves,” Paper 8121-39, Proc. SPIE 8121 (2011)</span><span style="" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-size: 7.5pt;" class=""> [1]Hudgins, W., R., A. Meulenberg, A., Penland, R. F. “Mechanism of wave interaction during interference,” SPIE (2013) Paper 8832-7, in The Nature of Light: What are Photons? <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class=""><br class="">Please let us know if you were successful, or not, with your testing.<br class=""><br class="">Bob <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span style="" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></span></p></blockquote></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 10pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style="font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><br class="">_______________________________________________<br class="">If you no longer wish to receive communication from the Nature of Light and Particles General Discussion List at<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:mules333@gmail.com" target="_blank" style="color: rgb(149, 79, 114); 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