<html><body><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:16px"><blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255); margin-left: 5px; margin-top: 5px; padding-left: 5px;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441751284862_12459"><div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441751284862_12458"><div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441751284862_12457"><div class="y_msg_container" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441751284862_12467"><div id="yiv9635789758"><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441751284862_12478"><div style="color:#000;background-color:#fff;font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:16px;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441751284862_12477"><div id="yiv9635789758yui_3_16_0_1_1441740935681_21442"><span><br></span></div><div id="yiv9635789758yui_3_16_0_1_1441740935681_21442"><br></div><div id="yiv9635789758yui_3_16_0_1_1441740935681_21462">All,</div><div id="yiv9635789758yui_3_16_0_1_1441740935681_21462"><br></div><div id="yiv9635789758yui_3_16_0_1_1441740935681_21462">I haven't the time to detail the work just yet. Hopefully, the following papers may provide the basis for a fruitful discussion. </div><div dir="ltr" id="yiv9635789758yui_3_16_0_1_1441740935681_3074" class="yiv9635789758"><br></div><div dir="ltr" id="yiv9635789758yui_3_16_0_1_1441740935681_3074" class="yiv9635789758"><br></div><div dir="ltr" id="yiv9635789758yui_3_16_0_1_1441740935681_21439" class="yiv9635789758"><div dir="ltr" id="yiv9635789758yui_3_16_0_1_1441740935681_21439" class="yiv9635789758"><div dir="ltr" id="yiv9635789758yui_3_16_0_1_1441740935681_21439" class="yiv9635789758">1. Molecules of Light<br id="yiv9635789758yui_3_16_0_1_1441740935681_23292" class="yiv9635789758"></div><div dir="ltr" id="yiv9635789758yui_3_16_0_1_1441740935681_21439" class="yiv9635789758"><a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://www.nist.gov/pml/div684/20150908lightsaber.cfm" id="yiv9635789758yui_3_16_0_1_1441740935681_21563" class="yiv9635789758">NIST Physicists Show ‘Molecules’ Made of Light May Be Possible</a></div></div><div dir="ltr" id="yiv9635789758yui_3_16_0_1_1441740935681_21439" class="yiv9635789758"><br></div><div dir="ltr" id="yiv9635789758yui_3_16_0_1_1441740935681_21439" class="yiv9635789758">Ho (2015) Coulomb bounds states of strongly interacting photons </div><div dir="ltr" id="yiv9635789758yui_3_16_0_1_1441740935681_21439" class="yiv9635789758"><a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://arxiv.org/abs/1505.03859" id="yiv9635789758yui_3_16_0_1_1441740935681_22717">http://arxiv.org/abs/1505.03859</a></div><div dir="ltr" id="yiv9635789758yui_3_16_0_1_1441740935681_21439" class="yiv9635789758"><br></div><div dir="ltr" id="yiv9635789758yui_3_16_0_1_1441740935681_21439" class="yiv9635789758"><div dir="ltr" id="yiv9635789758yui_3_16_0_1_1441740935681_21439" class="yiv9635789758">Ho 2012 Annabelle Dark Matter</div><div dir="ltr" id="yiv9635789758yui_3_16_0_1_1441740935681_21439" class="yiv9635789758"><a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://arxiv.org/pdf/1211.0503v3.pdf" id="yiv9635789758yui_3_16_0_1_1441740935681_22141" class="yiv9635789758">http://arxiv.org/pdf/1211.0503v3.pdf</a></div></div><div dir="ltr" id="yiv9635789758yui_3_16_0_1_1441740935681_21439" class="yiv9635789758"><br></div></div><div dir="ltr" id="yiv9635789758yui_3_16_0_1_1441740935681_21439" class="yiv9635789758">2. Swimming in spacetime</div><div dir="ltr" id="yiv9635789758yui_3_16_0_1_1441740935681_21439" class="yiv9635789758"><a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://web.mit.edu/wisdom/www/swimming.pdf" id="yiv9635789758yui_3_16_0_1_1441740935681_21463">http://web.mit.edu/wisdom/www/swimming.pdf</a><br></div><div dir="ltr" id="yiv9635789758yui_3_16_0_1_1441740935681_21439" class="yiv9635789758"><br></div><div dir="ltr" id="yiv9635789758yui_3_16_0_1_1441740935681_21439" class="yiv9635789758">3. Magnetic wormhole</div><div dir="ltr" id="yiv9635789758yui_3_16_0_1_1441740935681_21439" class="yiv9635789758"><a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="http://www.nature.com/articles/srep12488" id="yiv9635789758yui_3_16_0_1_1441740935681_21949">A Magnetic Wormhole : Scientific Reports</a></div><div dir="ltr" id="yiv9635789758yui_3_16_0_1_1441740935681_21439" class="yiv9635789758"><br></div><div dir="ltr" id="yiv9635789758yui_3_16_0_1_1441740935681_21439" class="yiv9635789758"><br></div><div dir="ltr" id="yiv9635789758yui_3_16_0_1_1441740935681_21439" class="yiv9635789758">4. Toroidal model with electric, magnetic and anapole moments</div><div dir="ltr" id="yiv9635789758yui_3_16_0_1_1441740935681_21439" class="yiv9635789758"><div dir="ltr" id="yiv9635789758yui_3_16_0_1_1441740935681_3074" class="yiv9635789758"><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" id="yiv9635789758yui_3_16_0_1_1441740935681_3200" target="_blank" href="http://www.nature.com/ncomms/2015/150827/ncomms9069/full/ncomms9069.html" class="yiv9635789758" style="color:rgb(25, 106, 212);">Nonradiating anapole modes in dielectric nanoparticles : Nature Communications : Nature Publishing Group</a></div><div dir="ltr" id="yiv9635789758yui_3_16_0_1_1441740935681_22151" class="yiv9635789758"><br></div></div><div dir="ltr" id="yiv9635789758yui_3_16_0_1_1441740935681_21439" class="yiv9635789758">Note: <a rel="nofollow" target="_blank" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toroidal_moment" id="yiv9635789758yui_3_16_0_1_1441740935681_22316" class="yiv9635789758">Toroidal moment - Wiki</a><br id="yiv9635789758yui_3_16_0_1_1441740935681_23539" class="yiv9635789758"></div><div dir="ltr" id="yiv9635789758yui_3_16_0_1_1441740935681_21439" class="yiv9635789758"><br></div><div dir="ltr" id="yiv9635789758yui_3_16_0_1_1441740935681_21439" class="yiv9635789758">Best</div><div dir="ltr" id="yiv9635789758yui_3_16_0_1_1441740935681_21439" class="yiv9635789758"><br></div><div dir="ltr" id="yiv9635789758yui_3_16_0_1_1441740935681_21439" class="yiv9635789758">David</div><div dir="ltr" id="yiv9635789758yui_3_16_0_1_1441740935681_21439" class="yiv9635789758"><br></div><div dir="ltr" id="yiv9635789758yui_3_16_0_1_1441740935681_21439" class="yiv9635789758"><br></div><div dir="ltr" id="yiv9635789758yui_3_16_0_1_1441740935681_21439" class="yiv9635789758"><br></div> <blockquote style="border-left:2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255);margin-left:5px;margin-top:5px;padding-left:5px;" id="yiv9635789758yui_3_16_0_1_1441740935681_21393"> <div style="font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:16px;" id="yiv9635789758yui_3_16_0_1_1441740935681_21392"> <div style="font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:16px;" id="yiv9635789758yui_3_16_0_1_1441740935681_21391"> <div dir="ltr" id="yiv9635789758yui_3_16_0_1_1441740935681_21390"> <hr size="1" id="yiv9635789758yui_3_16_0_1_1441740935681_21434"> <font size="2" face="Arial" id="yiv9635789758yui_3_16_0_1_1441740935681_21394"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">From:</span></b> Richard Gauthier <richgauthier@gmail.com><br> <b id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441751284862_12692"><span style="font-weight:bold;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441751284862_12691">To:</span></b> Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion <general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org> <br> <b id="yiv9635789758yui_3_16_0_1_1441740935681_23616"><span style="font-weight:bold;" id="yiv9635789758yui_3_16_0_1_1441740935681_23615">Sent:</span></b> Tuesday, September 8, 2015 10:52 AM<br> <b id="yiv9635789758yui_3_16_0_1_1441740935681_23618"><span style="font-weight:bold;" id="yiv9635789758yui_3_16_0_1_1441740935681_23617">Subject:</span></b> Re: [General] Verification of Light Interactions<br> </font> </div> <div class="yiv9635789758y_msg_container" id="yiv9635789758yui_3_16_0_1_1441740935681_21610"><br><div id="yiv9635789758"><div id="yiv9635789758yui_3_16_0_1_1441740935681_21609">Hello Chandra,<div class="yiv9635789758" id="yiv9635789758yui_3_16_0_1_1441740935681_21608"> Thank you for your detailed explanations. Whether or not the CTF (or the ether) is conscious is definitely an open question. We still need to know how mind and subjective experience arise in this physical universe, since that’s how we know about the physical universe. The old materialistic explanation that mind is an epiphenomenon of organized matter (“the brain secretes thought as the liver secretes bile.”) may satisfy some materialists (thinking themselves to be scientific). But this is not the only possible explanation of mind. Matter itself is yet to be fully understood. It’s unlikely to be composed of other matter “all the way down”. </div><div class="yiv9635789758"> Richard</div><div class="yiv9635789758"><br clear="none" class="yiv9635789758"></div><div class="yiv9635789758"><div><blockquote class="yiv9635789758" type="cite"><div class="yiv9635789758qtdSeparateBR"><br><br></div><div class="yiv9635789758yqt6305825914" id="yiv9635789758yqt25195"><div class="yiv9635789758">On Sep 7, 2015, at 12:46 PM, Roychoudhuri, Chandra <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv9635789758" ymailto="mailto:chandra.roychoudhuri@uconn.edu" target="_blank" href="mailto:chandra.roychoudhuri@uconn.edu">chandra.roychoudhuri@uconn.edu</a>> wrote:</div> <br clear="none" class="yiv9635789758Apple-interchange-newline"><div class="yiv9635789758"><div class="yiv9635789758WordSection1" style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;"><div class="yiv9635789758" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:11pt;">Richard: As far as the scholarly knowledge in Vedic, Upanisadic and Yogic fields are concerned; I do not have any choice but take the American “Fifth Amendment”! I am promoting enhanced Western method of thinking; not Eastern. Why?</span></div><div class="yiv9635789758" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><b class="yiv9635789758"><i class="yiv9635789758"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:11pt;"><span class="yiv9635789758">1.<span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;font-size:7pt;line-height:normal;font-family:'Times New Roman';"> <span class="yiv9635789758Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></span></span></i></b><b class="yiv9635789758"><i class="yiv9635789758"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:11pt;">Knowledge of Physics:</span></i></b><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:11pt;"><span class="yiv9635789758Apple-converted-space"> </span>My knowledge of science is entirely through Western books and PhD from USA. Clash came in my mind when I found that I can do the math to get the necessary grades, but I do not understand the underlying<span class="yiv9635789758Apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="yiv9635789758"><i class="yiv9635789758">physical processes</i></b><span class="yiv9635789758Apple-converted-space"> </span>behind the Relativity and the QM theories. This was during my BS and MS classes in India. So, right from the beginning of my graduate life in USA, I started devising and doing experiments that facilitates exploring the<span class="yiv9635789758Apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="yiv9635789758"><i class="yiv9635789758">physical processes</i></b><span class="yiv9635789758Apple-converted-space"> </span>that give rise to the measurable data. Obviously, this “process-seeking” mind must have evolved out of my Indian blood and Indian culture; but, not through formal training in Indian philosophies. In fact, in my first interview with Prof. Leonard Mandel at the Rochester University; I was stupidly trying to convince him that I would work under him to demonstrate that the “single photon interference” is not a valid physics conclusion. This was in 1969. Arriving from India, I had no idea that Mandel, during that period, was already “riding high” for demonstrating “single photon interference” through several different experiments! Mandel summarily transferred me from the Physics Department to the Institute of Optics. My ego felt deflated at that time; but Mandel took the most effective decision to build my future experience as a good engineering, with the<span class="yiv9635789758Apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="yiv9635789758"><i class="yiv9635789758">enquiring mind</i></b><span class="yiv9635789758Apple-converted-space"> </span>intact. It took me many decades to recognize that we have a much bigger global problem. The Knowledge Gatekeepers in all fields, both in the East and the West, suffer from the same spell of Messiah Complex; which they impose, hand-in-glove, with the entire socio-econo-political culture.<b class="yiv9635789758"><i class="yiv9635789758"></i></b></span></div><div class="yiv9635789758" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><b class="yiv9635789758"><i class="yiv9635789758"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:11pt;"><span class="yiv9635789758">2.<span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;font-size:7pt;line-height:normal;font-family:'Times New Roman';"> <span class="yiv9635789758Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></span></span></i></b><b class="yiv9635789758"><i class="yiv9635789758"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:11pt;">“Ether”, Indian “Brahmha” and my “CTF”:<span class="yiv9635789758Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></i></b><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:11pt;">While Indian cultural upbringing does help Indian children to become “Indian” in cultural behavior; very little is taught about the Indian philosophy in the mainstream schools and colleges. My concept of the existence of a “Complex Tension Field” (CTF) emerged just as “ether” concept was felt necessary in the West since Newton’s time. But, it got strengthened when I convinced myself of Non-Interaction of Waves (NIW) based on my experiments during mid 1970’s. NIW is valid for all tension-field based waves that are linear excitations of the mother tension field. Waves do not have SEPARATE existence, or SEPARATE INDENTITY. Then, I recognized that weakness of the old ether concept can be removed, once we validate that particles themselves are also various excited states of the same “CTF”, without separate existence.<span class="yiv9635789758Apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="yiv9635789758"><i class="yiv9635789758">The manifest universe is full of diverse dances of the same CTF field!</i></b><span class="yiv9635789758Apple-converted-space"> </span>That is when I realized that India ancient Hrishis must have known a lot more through their intuitive life-long meditation than the current Western Physics thinkers. But, they miserably failed to pass on that millennia-old knowledge seeking skills to average Indians. So, the current Indian backwardness gives me pause to recommend coopting the Indian Vedic epistemology, as is. I would still promote the Western Path, the “evidence based” science, which is accessible to<span class="yiv9635789758Apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="yiv9635789758"><i class="yiv9635789758">average people</i></b><span class="yiv9635789758Apple-converted-space"> </span>to pick up all over the world.<span class="yiv9635789758Apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="yiv9635789758"><i class="yiv9635789758">Science for everybody to learn and to survive; it is not just for elites.</i></b><span class="yiv9635789758Apple-converted-space"> </span>We just need to add iterative application of Interaction Process Mapping Epistemology (IPM-E) over and above the prevailing Western method of Measurable Data Modeling Epistemology (MDM-E). MDM-E is insufficient to keep us evolving. No data (evidence) can ever provide all the necessary information about the interactants we are interested in. We must learn to overcome nature imposed<span class="yiv9635789758Apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="yiv9635789758"><i class="yiv9635789758">perpetual information retrieval problem<span class="yiv9635789758Apple-converted-space"> </span></i></b>by combining MDM-E and IPM-E<b class="yiv9635789758"><i class="yiv9635789758">.</i></b></span></div><div class="yiv9635789758" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:11pt;"><span class="yiv9635789758">3.<span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;font-size:7pt;line-height:normal;font-family:'Times New Roman';"> <span class="yiv9635789758Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></span></span><b class="yiv9635789758"><i class="yiv9635789758"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:11pt;">Consciousness:<span class="yiv9635789758Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></i></b><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:11pt;">Many well-known people have been promoting emergence of Consciousness out of Quantum Uncertainty Principle. Nature does not have an “Uncertainty Principle”, albeit global scientific belief in it. [See my attached publication of 1978.]. It is about time that the Homo Sapiens stop arrogantly telling nature how she ought to behave out of our incomplete theories about her. Instead, we should keep on humbly discovering how she actually functions in reality. Our, sustainable survival depends upon this latter attitude. Otherwise, we will make ourselves extinct out of our arrogant ignorance! We have already become the most destructive pest in the biosphere!</span></div><div class="yiv9635789758" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt 0.5in;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:11pt;"> Deductively, it is clear that the<span class="yiv9635789758Apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="yiv9635789758"><i class="yiv9635789758">biological consciousness and the biological intelligence,<span class="yiv9635789758Apple-converted-space"> </span></i></b>not just that of the Homo Sapiens, are deeply connected with the ultimate cosmic field, the ether in some form, or my CTF concept in some form. And, I promote this postulate, as yet un-validated, from the following deductive logics. Data from MRI and fMRI clearly indicate that Human consciousness is an emergent property of our total neural network (body and skull), made out of diverse kinds of biological cells. All cells are built out of diverse kinds of molecules. All biological molecules are built out of a small set of atoms. All atoms are built out of protons, neutrons and electrons. And, we are on the path to validate that all particles are localized self-looped oscillations of the same CTF (in which EM waves are perpetually propagating linear excitations). Now, if we accept that elementary particles are really emergent properties (excitations) of the CTF (self-looped oscillations); then by the chain of logics, the emergence of biological consciousness out of biological bodies is clearly an emergent property of the CTF. But, we are still very far off from our ability to experimentally follow the emergence of every new property through every step of the way and scientifically claim that consciousness is an emergent property of the CTF (or the Eastern Brahmha). If the concept of CTF survives in some form or other, then we will have to agree that the<span class="yiv9635789758Apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="yiv9635789758"><i class="yiv9635789758">potentiality<span class="yiv9635789758Apple-converted-space"> </span></i></b>of the emergence of consciousness is definitely contained (buried) in the CTF. Is CTF conscious? We really do not know; it could be; or may not be! But, publicly declaring so as a final knowledge without experimental validation will be just as arrogant as claiming human consciousness is a product of the Uncertainty Principle!</span></div><div class="yiv9635789758" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:11pt;"> </span></div><div class="yiv9635789758" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:11pt;">Sincerely,</span></div><div class="yiv9635789758" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:11pt;">Chandra.<span class="yiv9635789758Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></div><div class="yiv9635789758" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv9635789758" name="_MailEndCompose" href=""><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;color:rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></a></div><div class="yiv9635789758"><div class="yiv9635789758" style="border-style:solid none none;border-top-color:rgb(181, 196, 223);border-top-width:1pt;padding:3pt 0in 0in;"><div class="yiv9635789758" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><b class="yiv9635789758"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma, sans-serif;">From:</span></b><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma, sans-serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758Apple-converted-space"> </span>General [<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv9635789758" ymailto="mailto:general-bounces+chandra.roychoudhuri=uconn.edu@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:general-bounces+chandra.roychoudhuri=uconn.edu@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org">mailto:general-bounces+chandra.roychoudhuri=uconn.edu@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>]<span class="yiv9635789758Apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="yiv9635789758">On Behalf Of<span class="yiv9635789758Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Richard Gauthier<br clear="none" class="yiv9635789758"><b class="yiv9635789758">Sent:</b><span class="yiv9635789758Apple-converted-space"> </span>Monday, September 07, 2015 12:49 PM<br clear="none" class="yiv9635789758"><b class="yiv9635789758">To:</b><span class="yiv9635789758Apple-converted-space"> </span>Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion<br clear="none" class="yiv9635789758"><b class="yiv9635789758">Subject:</b><span class="yiv9635789758Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [General] Verification of Light Interactions</span></div></div></div><div class="yiv9635789758" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"> </div><div class="yiv9635789758" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;">Hello Chandra,</div><div class="yiv9635789758"><div class="yiv9635789758" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"> Thank your for your explanations. I am completely sympathetic with your desire to rehabilitate the traditional concept of “ether” scientifically by giving it the newer, more descriptive name Complex Tension Field. I think the same approach could be done with the other four traditional fundamental material factors described in Eastern philosophies: the aerial, luminous, liquid and solid factors. Have you considered how this might be done? Yoga philosophy describes these five fundamental physical factors (painca mahabhutas) as varying from the most subtle (etheric factor) to the most crude (solid factor). All of these factors are described in yoga philosophy as successively evolving from a cosmic mind which itself evolves from a state of pure consciousness (Nirguna Brahma). Do you think that physics is ready to consider this approach? In recent years consciousness studies have emerged as an active branch of research in many fields, including physics. The relationships of mind to matter still need to be better explained and explored scientifically. Understanding more deeply the nature of light and matter could be part of this exploration.</div></div><div class="yiv9635789758"><div class="yiv9635789758" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"> Richard</div></div><div class="yiv9635789758"><div class="yiv9635789758" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"> </div><div class="yiv9635789758"><blockquote class="yiv9635789758" style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt;"><div class="yiv9635789758"><div class="yiv9635789758" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;">On Aug 31, 2015, at 11:06 AM, Roychoudhuri, Chandra <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv9635789758" ymailto="mailto:chandra.roychoudhuri@uconn.edu" target="_blank" href="mailto:chandra.roychoudhuri@uconn.edu" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline;">chandra.roychoudhuri@uconn.edu</a>> wrote:</div></div><div class="yiv9635789758" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"> </div><div class="yiv9635789758"><div class="yiv9635789758"><div class="yiv9635789758" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><b class="yiv9635789758"><i class="yiv9635789758"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;color:rgb(31, 73, 125);">Dear All:</span></i></b><span class="yiv9635789758apple-converted-space"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;color:rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></span><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;color:rgb(31, 73, 125);">I will write a more detailed response to the NIW-related discussions. This has reached a good positive level out of collective discussions; meeting the key purpose of this forum.</span></div></div><div class="yiv9635789758"><div class="yiv9635789758" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;color:rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></div></div><div class="yiv9635789758"><div class="yiv9635789758" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><b class="yiv9635789758"><i class="yiv9635789758"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;color:rgb(31, 73, 125);">Dear Richard G.:</span></i></b><span class="yiv9635789758apple-converted-space"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;color:rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></span><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;color:rgb(31, 73, 125);">My personal belief is that nature is not subservient to elegant human theories. We should feel lucky that how much QM formalisms have given us access to validate diverse measurable data. This means we humans are not heading in a totally wrong direction.</span></div></div><div class="yiv9635789758"><div class="yiv9635789758" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;color:rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></div></div><div class="yiv9635789758"><div class="yiv9635789758" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;color:rgb(31, 73, 125);">However, this does not mean that the foundational postulates of QM have captured all the necessary final set of postulates to build the perfect model of the Cosmic Building! Emulating a success track brings more successes more easily. But, following the same track of thinking will stop the evolution of human enquiring minds!</span></div></div><div class="yiv9635789758"><div class="yiv9635789758" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;color:rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></div></div><div class="yiv9635789758"><div class="yiv9635789758" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;color:rgb(31, 73, 125);">We must keep on challenging the foundational postulates of the working theories: Classical, Relativities and QM. Then re-build a new set of postulates that harmoniously starts from a unified field-platform, which allows the harmonious emergence of waves and particles out of the same Complex Tension Field (CTF). We have been wasting time to unify diverse fields of physics by forcing the apples and oranges to become a new lovely fruit without going through the foundational genetic engineering by starting with the genes of the two plants!</span></div></div><div class="yiv9635789758"><div class="yiv9635789758" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;color:rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></div></div><div class="yiv9635789758"><div class="yiv9635789758" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;color:rgb(31, 73, 125);">People in the field of biology are smarter than us; because they are a lot more humble people. They are rapidly advancing; physics is moribund for over 90 years!</span></div></div><div class="yiv9635789758"><div class="yiv9635789758" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;color:rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></div></div><div class="yiv9635789758"><div class="yiv9635789758" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;color:rgb(31, 73, 125);">One can register the spectrum of Fe-atoms (photons?) by gathering the light from the sparks that one can generate by carefully swinging an iron rod against a cement floor. The iron-spectrum reflects QM excitations. But, it is the hand that provided the energy to the rod as classical kinetic energy, (1/2)mv-squared! We are not yet smart enough to connect directly the “<b class="yiv9635789758"><i class="yiv9635789758">alpha</i></b>” with the physical processes that went on between the molecules of iron-rod and the cement platform when they were forcefully grazed against each other.</span></div></div><div class="yiv9635789758"><div class="yiv9635789758" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;color:rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></div></div><div class="yiv9635789758"><div class="yiv9635789758" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;color:rgb(31, 73, 125);">How do we bring conceptual continuity between delivering classical kinetic energy and the emergence of discrete set of quantum mechanical frequencies?<span class="yiv9635789758apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="yiv9635789758"><i class="yiv9635789758">QM does not have any fundamental postulate that QM excitation and/or QM energy transfer can happen only through QM interactions between QM-entities</i></b>. Otherwise, the biological and cosmological evolution would not have been continuing! And, yet we are accepting, over a century, that the emission of a photo electron (QM-bound) conclusively proves that photons are quantized!! Creation and annihilation operators are no more than representing the functions of material dipole emitters and detectors. Only they can be the creators and annihilators of the “available” EM energy which exists only as excitations of the vacuum (CTF); just like particles are. Vacuum holds all the energy. We are all assemblies of diverse excitations of the CTF. That is why the<span class="yiv9635789758apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="yiv9635789758"><i class="yiv9635789758">realities</i></b><span class="yiv9635789758apple-converted-space"> </span>of the universe appear so<b class="yiv9635789758"><i class="yiv9635789758">elusive</i></b><i class="yiv9635789758">;<span class="yiv9635789758apple-converted-space"> </span></i>but they are not<span class="yiv9635789758apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="yiv9635789758"><i class="yiv9635789758">illusions</i></b><i class="yiv9635789758">!</i></span></div></div><div class="yiv9635789758"><div class="yiv9635789758" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;color:rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></div></div><div class="yiv9635789758"><div class="yiv9635789758" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;color:rgb(31, 73, 125);">Sincerely,</span></div></div><div class="yiv9635789758"><div class="yiv9635789758" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;color:rgb(31, 73, 125);">Chandra. </span></div></div><div class="yiv9635789758"><div class="yiv9635789758" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;color:rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></div></div><div class="yiv9635789758"><div class="yiv9635789758" style="border-style:solid none none;border-top-color:rgb(181, 196, 223);border-top-width:1pt;padding:3pt 0in 0in;"><div class="yiv9635789758"><div class="yiv9635789758" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><b class="yiv9635789758"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma, sans-serif;">From:</span></b><span class="yiv9635789758apple-converted-space"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma, sans-serif;"> </span></span><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma, sans-serif;">General [<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv9635789758" ymailto="mailto:general-bounces+chandra.roychoudhuri=uconn.edu@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:general-bounces+chandra.roychoudhuri=uconn.edu@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="color:purple;">mailto:general-bounces+chandra.roychoudhuri=uconn.edu@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</span></a>]<span class="yiv9635789758apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="yiv9635789758">On Behalf Of<span class="yiv9635789758apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Richard Gauthier<br clear="none" class="yiv9635789758"><b class="yiv9635789758">Sent:</b><span class="yiv9635789758apple-converted-space"> </span>Monday, August 31, 2015 12:32 PM<br clear="none" class="yiv9635789758"><b class="yiv9635789758">To:</b><span class="yiv9635789758apple-converted-space"> </span>Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion<br clear="none" class="yiv9635789758"><b class="yiv9635789758">Subject:</b><span class="yiv9635789758apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [General] Verification of Light Interactions</span></div></div></div></div><div class="yiv9635789758"><div class="yiv9635789758" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"> </div></div><div class="yiv9635789758"><div class="yiv9635789758"><div class="yiv9635789758" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;">Hi all,</div></div></div><div class="yiv9635789758"><div class="yiv9635789758"><div class="yiv9635789758" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"> Just by looking at the the dimensions of the QED fine structure constant alpha = e^2/hbar c = approx 1/137 we can see what is important in the interaction between a photon and an electron is the electron’s charge -e, the photon’s speed c (and possibly the electron’s internal speed c) and the spins of the photon and/or the electron. We can’t get alpha from Maxwell’s equations, can we?</div></div></div><div class="yiv9635789758"><div class="yiv9635789758"><div class="yiv9635789758" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"> Richard</div></div></div><div class="yiv9635789758"><div class="yiv9635789758" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"> </div></div><div class="yiv9635789758"><blockquote class="yiv9635789758" style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt;"><div class="yiv9635789758"><div class="yiv9635789758"><div class="yiv9635789758" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;">On Aug 31, 2015, at 4:25 AM, Chip Akins <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv9635789758" ymailto="mailto:chipakins@gmail.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:chipakins@gmail.com" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="color:purple;">chipakins@gmail.com</span></a>> wrote:</div></div></div><div class="yiv9635789758"><div class="yiv9635789758" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"> </div></div><div class="yiv9635789758"><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;">Hi John W. Andrew, and David</div><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"> </div><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;">John W. and David</div><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;">It is my belief that Maxwell’s equations MUST be extended, and that the observations which brought Chandra to propose the CTF is one reason.</div><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;">We see that light reacts with matter more readily than light reacts with light. We see that the energy in matter is in many ways similar to the energy in light. And we see that the energy in matter is confined by something not described by Maxwell’s equations.</div><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;">We can see properties displayed by various forms of the propagation of energy in space, like spin, and confinement, which were not addressed by Maxwell.</div><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;">So I see Chandra’s CTF to be the space which supports the real set of properties, and an extension to Maxwell’s equations to be required in order to sort this out, specifically because of the reaction of space, to energy propagating through space.</div><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;">It is interesting that Pauli exclusion, and spin ½, and often charge, is present in matter, and that with these properties, this energy can apparently more easily react with light.</div><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;">So far, in my research, this has indicated again that the “spin mode” of matter is a significant contributor to the ability of matter to react with light waves. However, it also seems that it will be quite difficult to use light alone to create the correct circumstances to produce this “spin mode”. So making matter from light will be a very elusive pursuit, it seems.</div><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;">When this energy is localized, that is to say confined, it takes on a new topology. For Martin’s hierarchy to work, for stable particles to exist, there is required to be more to the properties of space, and its reaction to energy, than Maxwell calculated.</div><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;">While, on the surface, it may seem that many of us have totally different ideas, I think that is more a matter of perspective, as John W. has pointed out, and that we are all using those different perspectives, and moving toward the same set of conclusions eventually.</div><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"> </div><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;">Andrew</div><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;">The beam splitter will not “destroy” the standing wave. It will reduce the intensity of the standing wave to about 25%. But this is enough to detect if light is being reflected from light in this standing wave, using a test setup like the one suggested. If even half the light in the standing wave portion of the beam is reflected you may see as much as a<span class="yiv9635789758apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="yiv9635789758">12.5% decrease</b><span class="yiv9635789758apple-converted-space"> </span>in the intensity with the mirror in place. But I suspect that none of the light is reflected, and you will see no change in the detector output with the mirror in place, or removed.</div><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;">Chip</div><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"> </div><div class="yiv9635789758"><div class="yiv9635789758" style="border-style:solid none none;border-top-color:rgb(225, 225, 225);border-top-width:1pt;padding:3pt 0in 0in;"><div class="yiv9635789758"><div class="yiv9635789758"><div class="yiv9635789758" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><b class="yiv9635789758"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">From:</span></b><span class="yiv9635789758apple-converted-space"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span></span><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">General [<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv9635789758" ymailto="mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="color:rgb(149, 79, 114);">mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</span></a>]<span class="yiv9635789758apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="yiv9635789758">On Behalf Of<span class="yiv9635789758apple-converted-space"> </span></b>John Williamson<br clear="none" class="yiv9635789758"><b class="yiv9635789758">Sent:</b><span class="yiv9635789758apple-converted-space"> </span>Sunday, August 30, 2015 9:41 PM<br clear="none" class="yiv9635789758"><b class="yiv9635789758">To:</b><span class="yiv9635789758apple-converted-space"> </span>Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv9635789758" ymailto="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="color:rgb(149, 79, 114);">general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</span></a>><br clear="none" class="yiv9635789758"><b class="yiv9635789758">Cc:</b><span class="yiv9635789758apple-converted-space"> </span>Joakim Pettersson <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv9635789758" ymailto="mailto:joakimbits@gmail.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:joakimbits@gmail.com" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="color:rgb(149, 79, 114);">joakimbits@gmail.com</span></a>>; Nick Bailey <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv9635789758" ymailto="mailto:nick@bailey-family.org.uk" target="_blank" href="mailto:nick@bailey-family.org.uk" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="color:rgb(149, 79, 114);">nick@bailey-family.org.uk</span></a>>; Manohar . <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv9635789758" ymailto="mailto:manohar_berlin@hotmail.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:manohar_berlin@hotmail.com" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="color:rgb(149, 79, 114);">manohar_berlin@hotmail.com</span></a>>; Ariane Mandray <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv9635789758" ymailto="mailto:ariane.mandray@wanadoo.fr" target="_blank" href="mailto:ariane.mandray@wanadoo.fr" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="color:rgb(149, 79, 114);">ariane.mandray@wanadoo.fr</span></a>><br clear="none" class="yiv9635789758"><b class="yiv9635789758">Subject:</b><span class="yiv9635789758apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [General] Verification of Light Interactions</span></div></div></div></div></div><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span></div><div class="yiv9635789758"><div class="yiv9635789758"><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 12pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">Dear All,<br clear="none" class="yiv9635789758"><br clear="none" class="yiv9635789758">I scarcely know where to start. How can I agree with so much of what you are all saying and yet disagree, in detail, with all of you. Let me try to communicate that.<br clear="none" class="yiv9635789758"><br clear="none" class="yiv9635789758">This email is likely to seem to contradict itself. Let me set your mind at rest: it does!<br clear="none" class="yiv9635789758"><br clear="none" class="yiv9635789758">The reason is that I am going to argue from a few different perspectives, and different perspectives give different perspectives. Funny that!<br clear="none" class="yiv9635789758"><br clear="none" class="yiv9635789758">Firstly, from the perspective of the (linear) Maxwell equations. The NIW of pure-field light-light interactions as described by Maxwell is linear. Superposition applies. Interference is a bad word for interference (as Chandra has emphasised). The "I" in NIW is a different thing entirely from the "interference" of light with light. This leads to the following manifestly true(if not very helpful) statement : interference is not interference.<br clear="none" class="yiv9635789758"><br clear="none" class="yiv9635789758">Maxwell is very very good. It is (as far as I know, sub pair production threshold and within its realm of validity) supported 100 percent by known experiment. Indeed photons do not "interfere only with themselves". Experimentally, they superpose on other photons. Linearly. Any simulation based on this is going to show this. Likewise, in light-light only interactions it is going to (very likely) agree with experiment. Conclusion: light does not reflect from light.<br clear="none" class="yiv9635789758"><br clear="none" class="yiv9635789758">Wait a minute: are not some of us arguing that "everything is made from (the same stuff as) light"?<br clear="none" class="yiv9635789758"><br clear="none" class="yiv9635789758">What is going on?<span class="yiv9635789758apple-converted-space"> </span><br clear="none" class="yiv9635789758"><br clear="none" class="yiv9635789758">So: lets expand the perspective to include matter. And its experimental properties. Matter does interact with light. Mirrors reflect it. Material refracts it. Atoms absorb and emit it. Material particles may annihilate to give pure light. In fact it is continuously created and destroyed.</span></div><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 12pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">This is not just a bit of interference (in either meaning of the word above) this is life or death for light.<br clear="none" class="yiv9635789758"><br clear="none" class="yiv9635789758">Conclusion: one needs to go beyond (just) Maxwell if one wishes to describe this.</span></div><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 12pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">HOW?<br clear="none" class="yiv9635789758"><br clear="none" class="yiv9635789758">One could go to QED. Then light interacts with light via a "box" diagram.</span></div><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 12pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv9635789758" target="_blank" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QED_vacuum" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="color:rgb(149, 79, 114);">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QED_vacuum</span></a></span></div><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 12pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">Ok … but is this the whole story? I think not. QED does not, can not, and will never explain the physical properties it puts in a-priori. This is true of any theory. It puts in point, massive, charges. Also: all it does is provide (miniscule) corrections to what Maxwell says, until you get right up to the pair-production threshold (and even there Maxwell is nearly 100 percent right). Material particles do not bind themselves with miniscule corrections.</span></div><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 12pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">No, we need a theory that allows the topological confinement of light. Something that allows an extra degree of freedom, over and above the pure fields.</span></div><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 12pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">Now this could be Chandra’s CTF, it could be an extension of Maxwell along some of the lines Martin and I are considering, or it could be something else. That is what all this is about.</span></div><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 12pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">For me, for what it is worth, this extra thing does reside in the extra degrees of freedom that David was talking about, over and above the fields, afforded by such things as the angular momentum (T) p-vot (P) and quadrivector (Q) terms in the equations proposed.</span></div><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 12pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">Anyway, matter happens, so it has got to be something!</span></div><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 12pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">If so, then Bob and Andrew are right and we should be thinking of experiments to try to throw light on matter. I’ve suggested a few in the papers. We should think of more.</span></div><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 12pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">Cheers, John W.</span></div><div class="yiv9635789758"><div align="center" class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;text-align:center;"><hr align="center" class="yiv9635789758" size="2" width="100%"></div><div class="yiv9635789758" id="yiv9635789758divRpF22927"><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 12pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><b class="yiv9635789758"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma, sans-serif;">From:</span></b><span class="yiv9635789758apple-converted-space"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma, sans-serif;"> </span></span><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma, sans-serif;">General [<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv9635789758" ymailto="mailto:general-bounces+john.williamson=glasgow.ac.uk@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:general-bounces+john.williamson=glasgow.ac.uk@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="color:rgb(149, 79, 114);">general-bounces+john.williamson=glasgow.ac.uk@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</span></a>] on behalf of Andrew Meulenberg [<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv9635789758" ymailto="mailto:mules333@gmail.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:mules333@gmail.com" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="color:rgb(149, 79, 114);">mules333@gmail.com</span></a>]<br clear="none" class="yiv9635789758"><b class="yiv9635789758">Sent:</b><span class="yiv9635789758apple-converted-space"> </span>Monday, August 31, 2015 12:55 AM<br clear="none" class="yiv9635789758"><b class="yiv9635789758">To:</b><span class="yiv9635789758apple-converted-space"> </span>Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion<br clear="none" class="yiv9635789758"><b class="yiv9635789758">Subject:</b><span class="yiv9635789758apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [General] Verification of Light Interactions</span></div></div><div class="yiv9635789758"><div class="yiv9635789758"><div class="yiv9635789758"><div class="yiv9635789758"><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 12pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;">Dear Chip,</div></div><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 12pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;">You are thinking along the right lines. However, your example won't work. It requires a beam splitter (or sampler) that will not 'destroy' the standing wave. If there is no reflected wave at some point, the whole standing wave collapses.<br clear="none" class="yiv9635789758"><br clear="none" class="yiv9635789758">On the other hand, this exercise may have also proved my hypothesis incorrect (that only slightly more than 1/2 of the incident beam will reach the physical mirror - I need to do the math).</div></div><div class="yiv9635789758"><div class="yiv9635789758"><div class="yiv9635789758" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;">It might be possible to set up standing waves in something like the figure below. Measuring the intensity of the evanescent waves at sequential reflection points might prove, or disprove, the point.<br clear="none" class="yiv9635789758"><image004.png></div></div></div><div class="yiv9635789758"><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 12pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;">I need to think about the details of such an experiment; however, I'm not sure that the intensity will diminish at the far end, if the aligned mirror is added.</div></div><div class="yiv9635789758"><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 12pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;">It is worth thinking about.</div></div><div class="yiv9635789758"><div class="yiv9635789758"><div class="yiv9635789758"><div class="yiv9635789758" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;">Andrew<br clear="none" class="yiv9635789758">_______________________________</div></div></div></div><div class="yiv9635789758"><div class="yiv9635789758"><div class="yiv9635789758"><div class="yiv9635789758" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"> </div></div></div><div class="yiv9635789758"><div class="yiv9635789758"><div class="yiv9635789758"><div class="yiv9635789758"><div class="yiv9635789758" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;">On Sun, Aug 30, 2015 at 5:23 PM, Chip Akins <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv9635789758" ymailto="mailto:chipakins@gmail.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:chipakins@gmail.com" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="color:rgb(149, 79, 114);">chipakins@gmail.com</span></a>> wrote:</div></div></div><blockquote class="yiv9635789758" style="border-style:none none none solid;border-left-color:rgb(204, 204, 204);border-left-width:1pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;"><div class="yiv9635789758"><div class="yiv9635789758"><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">Dear Andrew</span></div><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span></div><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">Then if you set up this experiment.</span></div><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span></div><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"><image005.png></span></div><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">And then remove the mirror, if wave reflection is occurring in the beams of light,<span class="yiv9635789758apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="yiv9635789758"><i class="yiv9635789758">you would see the light intensity increase at the bottom detector</i></b>. Without wave reflection the bottom detector will register about 50% of the beam intensity.<span class="yiv9635789758apple-converted-space"> </span></span></div><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span></div><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">But if wave reflection does occur then the bottom detector would measure significantly less than this value, and the intensity at the bottom detector would increase to about 50% when the left mirror is removed.</span></div><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span></div><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">If wave reflection does not occur, you would see no significant change in the bottom detector output, with or without the mirror.</span></div><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span></div><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">Chip</span></div><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span></div><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span></div><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span></div><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><b class="yiv9635789758"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">From:</span></b><span class="yiv9635789758apple-converted-space"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span></span><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">General [mailto:<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv9635789758" ymailto="mailto:general-bounces%2Bchipakins" target="_blank" href="mailto:general-bounces%2Bchipakins" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="color:rgb(149, 79, 114);">general-bounces+chipakins</span></a>=<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv9635789758" ymailto="mailto:gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="color:rgb(149, 79, 114);">gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</span></a>]<span class="yiv9635789758apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="yiv9635789758">On Behalf Of<span class="yiv9635789758apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Andrew Meulenberg<br clear="none" class="yiv9635789758"><b class="yiv9635789758">Sent:</b><span class="yiv9635789758apple-converted-space"> </span>Sunday, August 30, 2015 2:25 PM<br clear="none" class="yiv9635789758"><b class="yiv9635789758">To:</b><span class="yiv9635789758apple-converted-space"> </span>Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv9635789758" ymailto="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="color:rgb(149, 79, 114);">general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</span></a>>; Andrew Meulenberg <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv9635789758" ymailto="mailto:mules333@gmail.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:mules333@gmail.com" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="color:rgb(149, 79, 114);">mules333@gmail.com</span></a>><br clear="none" class="yiv9635789758"><b class="yiv9635789758">Cc:</b><span class="yiv9635789758apple-converted-space"> </span>Mary Fletcher <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv9635789758" ymailto="mailto:marycfletcher@gmail.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:marycfletcher@gmail.com" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="color:rgb(149, 79, 114);">marycfletcher@gmail.com</span></a>>; robert hudgins <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv9635789758" ymailto="mailto:hudginswr@msn.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:hudginswr@msn.com" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="color:rgb(149, 79, 114);">hudginswr@msn.com</span></a>></span></div><div class="yiv9635789758"><div class="yiv9635789758"><div class="yiv9635789758"><div class="yiv9635789758"><div class="yiv9635789758" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><br clear="none" class="yiv9635789758"><b class="yiv9635789758">Subject:</b><span class="yiv9635789758apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [General] Verification of Light Interactions</div></div></div></div></div><div class="yiv9635789758"><div class="yiv9635789758"><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span></div><div class="yiv9635789758"><div class="yiv9635789758"><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 12pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">Dear Chip,</span></div></div><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">Thank you for your thinking about the problem and your comments. You have identified several areas in which we need to clarify and/or emphasize our language. See comments below.</span></div><div class="yiv9635789758"><div class="yiv9635789758"><div class="yiv9635789758"><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span></div><div class="yiv9635789758"><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">On Sun, Aug 30, 2015 at 9:02 AM, Chip Akins <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv9635789758" ymailto="mailto:chipakins@gmail.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:chipakins@gmail.com" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="color:rgb(149, 79, 114);">chipakins@gmail.com</span></a>> wrote:</span></div><blockquote class="yiv9635789758" style="border-style:none none none solid;border-left-color:windowtext;border-left-width:1pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;"><div class="yiv9635789758"><div class="yiv9635789758"><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">Hi Andrew</span></div><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span></div><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">There are at least a couple of ways to show that reflection does not occur.</span></div><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span></div><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">Varying phase or frequency of one wave and looking at where the changes occur is one fairly clear method. No two waves are identical in all respects, so arguing that only two identical waves can reflect is a mute and empty point.</span></div></div></div></blockquote><div class="yiv9635789758"><ol start="1" type="1" style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-top:0in;" class="yiv9635789758"><li class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">The identical part is for<span class="yiv9635789758apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="yiv9635789758">components</b>, not necessarily for the whole wave. However, if all components are identical, then the waves are also. This identity of waves is mathematically possible. It is also possible for a single wave to be 'identical' with itself (this is important in the photon-to-electron transition) or for<span class="yiv9635789758apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="yiv9635789758">portions</b><span class="yiv9635789758apple-converted-space"> </span>of a single wave (e.g., a split beam) to be identical.</span></li><li class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">For intersecting coherent waves, the phases will become coincident with specific phase angles, in specific portions of space. Where the phases differ by 180 degrees (the null zones), reflection of identical components occurs.</span></li><li class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">Non-identical portions do not reflect, they transmit. This is a common source of 'error' in the analysis of standing waves created by reflection of normally incident light from a physical mirror. Since reflection and transmission in space is generally not loss (or divergence) free, there will always be a 'flow' of light to the mirror. Only identical portions are reflected before reaching the mirror. Think about this: most of the incident light never reaches the physical mirror.<span class="yiv9635789758apple-converted-space"><b class="yiv9635789758"> </b></span><b class="yiv9635789758">It reflects before it ever gets there.<span class="yiv9635789758apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Can you simulate that by assuming no transmission of identical light? Simulation of a Bragg reflector might be similar to this concept.</span></li><li class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">Re varying phase: see Dowling's section IV<span class="yiv9635789758apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="yiv9635789758">Phase Labeling</b></span></li><li class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">Re varying frequency: see Dowling's section V<span class="yiv9635789758apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="yiv9635789758">Detuning</b></span></li></ol></div><div class="yiv9635789758"><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">To make our point, we will need to emphasize that:</span></div></div><div class="yiv9635789758"><ol start="1" type="1" style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-top:0in;" class="yiv9635789758"><li class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"> it is only the identical components of the waves that reflect;</span></li><li class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">the reflection plane (the 'mirror') is the bisector of the intersection angle.</span></li><li class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">There is no way to distinguish the reflected and transmitted beams visually or within the limits of the wave theory. Amplitudes, phases and directions are identical.</span></li></ol></div><blockquote class="yiv9635789758" style="border-style:none none none solid;border-left-color:windowtext;border-left-width:1pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;"><div class="yiv9635789758"><div class="yiv9635789758"><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"><br clear="none" class="yiv9635789758"> <span class="yiv9635789758apple-converted-space"> </span></span></div></div></div></blockquote><blockquote class="yiv9635789758" style="border-style:none none none solid;border-left-color:windowtext;border-left-width:1pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;"><div class="yiv9635789758"><div class="yiv9635789758"><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">But there exists another method to test for reflection:</span></div><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span></div><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">If we start with this configuration…</span></div><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"><image006.jpg></span></div><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">And reflection occurs, then we would have the reflected components, as shown in red below…</span></div><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span></div><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"><image007.jpg></span></div><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">But we do not see these reflected components in simulation or in experiments.</span></div><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">So why chase, and try to prove, something for which there is no evidence?</span></div></div></div></blockquote><div class="yiv9635789758"><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span></div></div><div class="yiv9635789758"><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 12pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">Chip, you have missed an important point. The reflection planes are the bisector or are parallel to the bisector of the beams. you have not shown that. You have shown reflection from the other beam (this doubles the reflection angle). There should be no reflected energy in the directions that you have indicated. We will need to emphasize that point in the future.</span></div></div><div class="yiv9635789758"><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 12pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><b class="yiv9635789758"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">From your next email, you state:</span></b></div><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt 30pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">Hi Andrew</span></div><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt 30pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span></div><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt 30pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">Let me rephrase my argument.</span></div><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt 30pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span></div><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt 30pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><b class="yiv9635789758"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">First</span></b><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">,<span class="yiv9635789758apple-converted-space"> </span><i class="yiv9635789758">we know that transmission occurs</i>,<span class="yiv9635789758apple-converted-space"> </span><i class="yiv9635789758">because we know that the waves propagate</i>. <span class="yiv9635789758apple-converted-space"> </span></span></div><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">Correct</span></div><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt 30pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span></div><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt 30pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">Then, when we cause two waves to become coincident, we see the expected interference pattern for<span class="yiv9635789758apple-converted-space"> </span><i class="yiv9635789758">transmission</i>. <span class="yiv9635789758apple-converted-space"> </span></span></div><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">Correct</span></div><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt 30pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span></div><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt 30pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">And we measure the<span class="yiv9635789758apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="yiv9635789758">intensity, phase, and frequency</b>, of the output of the two waves, as if they passed through each other, without interaction.</span></div><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">Correct</span></div><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span></div><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">However, we can also say:</span></div><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><b class="yiv9635789758"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">First</span></b><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">,<span class="yiv9635789758apple-converted-space"> </span><i class="yiv9635789758">we know that<span class="yiv9635789758apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="yiv9635789758">reflection</b><span class="yiv9635789758apple-converted-space"> </span>occurs</i>,<span class="yiv9635789758apple-converted-space"> </span><i class="yiv9635789758">because we know that the waves<span class="yiv9635789758apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="yiv9635789758">reflect</b></i>. Then, when we cause two waves to become coincident, we see the expected interference pattern for<span class="yiv9635789758apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="yiv9635789758"><i class="yiv9635789758">reflection of identical components</i></b>. And we measure the<span class="yiv9635789758apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="yiv9635789758">intensity, phase, and frequency</b>, of the output of the two waves, as if their equal components reflected each other,<span class="yiv9635789758apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="yiv9635789758">with</b><span class="yiv9635789758apple-converted-space"> </span>the interaction.</span></div><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span></div><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt 30pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span></div><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt 30pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><b class="yiv9635789758"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">Second</span></b><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">, we do not see the reflections at the locations they would have to exist,<span class="yiv9635789758apple-converted-space"> </span><i class="yiv9635789758">if we vary the angles of incidence</i><span class="yiv9635789758apple-converted-space"> </span>through a full 360 degrees, and look for reflections. In this,<span class="yiv9635789758apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="yiv9635789758">we only see the transmitted components</b>.</span></div><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span></div><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">However, we can also say:</span></div><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><b class="yiv9635789758"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">Second</span></b><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">, we<span class="yiv9635789758apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="yiv9635789758">do</b><span class="yiv9635789758apple-converted-space"> </span>see the reflections at the locations they would have to exist,<span class="yiv9635789758apple-converted-space"> </span><i class="yiv9635789758">if we vary the convergence angles of incidence</i><span class="yiv9635789758apple-converted-space"> </span>through a full 360 degrees and look for reflections. However,<span class="yiv9635789758apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="yiv9635789758">we cannot distinguish them from transmitted components</b>.</span></div><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt 30pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span></div><div class="yiv9635789758" style="margin-left:30pt;"><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">So for me, those findings constitute sufficient “proof”.</span></div></div><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><b class="yiv9635789758"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">If the alternative statements above are also 'true', do you still consider the findings sufficient for your proof?<span class="yiv9635789758apple-converted-space"> </span></span></b><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">I, like Dowling and Gea-Banacloche, find the math ambiguous and in need of additional physics to resolve the issue. I feel that we have provided that in our papers.</span></div></div><div class="yiv9635789758"><div class="yiv9635789758" style="margin-left:30pt;"><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span></div></div><div class="yiv9635789758" style="margin-left:30pt;"><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">In your most recent email, you state: " If you conduct this experiment, and there are no waves following the red paths, then it seems it must mean that no reflection occurred at the intersection of the waves."</span></div></div><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span></div></div><div class="yiv9635789758"><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">First let me thank you for the figure. It provides some additional detail and information on the interference region. However, I believe that there are 2 errors.</span></div><ol start="1" type="1" style="margin-bottom:0in;margin-top:0in;" class="yiv9635789758"><li class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">The reflection plane should be the null-zone (across the center), not the other beam. The red lines are incorrectly placed.</span></li><li class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">I think that the diagonal blue 'arrow' is reversed. If it is as shown by the arrowhead, then the null zone would be diagonally 'down', rather than 'up' as shown.</span></li></ol><div class="yiv9635789758"><div class="yiv9635789758"><div class="yiv9635789758" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:10pt;">Chip, you bring some powerful tools to the group. If we can work together to get the reflection picture properly expressed in your model then Dowling's paper would be confirmed and the momentum analysis that we provided would resolve the issue.</span></div></div></div><div class="yiv9635789758"><div class="yiv9635789758"><div class="yiv9635789758" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:10pt;">It might seem that transmission or reflection that produce the same results has no significance. However, the distinction provides important information for both the photonic electron and the nature of photons and their interactions. I can detail some of these things in the future. Some of it is in my other papers. I'll send them later.</span></div></div></div><div class="yiv9635789758"><div class="yiv9635789758"><div class="yiv9635789758" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:10pt;">Andrew</span></div></div></div></div><div class="yiv9635789758"><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"> _______________________</span></div></div><blockquote class="yiv9635789758" style="border-style:none none none solid;border-left-color:windowtext;border-left-width:1pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;"><div class="yiv9635789758"><div class="yiv9635789758"><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span></div><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">Chip</span></div><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span></div><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span></div><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><b class="yiv9635789758"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">From:</span></b><span class="yiv9635789758apple-converted-space"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span></span><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">General [mailto:<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv9635789758" ymailto="mailto:general-bounces%2Bchipakins" target="_blank" href="mailto:general-bounces%2Bchipakins" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="color:rgb(149, 79, 114);">general-bounces+chipakins</span></a>=<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv9635789758" ymailto="mailto:gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="color:rgb(149, 79, 114);">gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</span></a>]<span class="yiv9635789758apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="yiv9635789758">On Behalf Of<span class="yiv9635789758apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Andrew Meulenberg<br clear="none" class="yiv9635789758"><b class="yiv9635789758">Sent:</b><span class="yiv9635789758apple-converted-space"> </span>Saturday, August 29, 2015 9:43 PM<br clear="none" class="yiv9635789758"><b class="yiv9635789758">To:</b><span class="yiv9635789758apple-converted-space"> </span>Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv9635789758" ymailto="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="color:rgb(149, 79, 114);">general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</span></a>>; Andrew Meulenberg <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv9635789758" ymailto="mailto:mules333@gmail.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:mules333@gmail.com" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="color:rgb(149, 79, 114);">mules333@gmail.com</span></a>><br clear="none" class="yiv9635789758"><b class="yiv9635789758">Cc:</b><span class="yiv9635789758apple-converted-space"> </span>robert hudgins <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv9635789758" ymailto="mailto:hudginswr@msn.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:hudginswr@msn.com" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="color:rgb(149, 79, 114);">hudginswr@msn.com</span></a>></span></div><div class="yiv9635789758"><div class="yiv9635789758"><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"><br clear="none" class="yiv9635789758"><b class="yiv9635789758">Subject:</b><span class="yiv9635789758apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [General] Verification of Light Interactions</span></div></div></div><div class="yiv9635789758"><div class="yiv9635789758"><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span></div><div class="yiv9635789758"><div class="yiv9635789758"><div class="yiv9635789758"><div class="yiv9635789758"><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 12pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">Dear Chip and Chandra,</span></div></div><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">I will not have time to contribute much to this topic until next week. Before then, I hope that both of you will have a chance to read both Dowling's paper attached to my email of:</span></div><div class="yiv9635789758"><div class="yiv9635789758" style="margin-left:30pt;"><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">Fri, Aug 14, 2015 at 11:33 PM</span></div></div><div class="yiv9635789758" style="margin-left:30pt;"><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">Light from Light reflection</span></div></div><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 12pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">and my comments on it in the email.<br clear="none" class="yiv9635789758"><br clear="none" class="yiv9635789758">Also, please look at the attached copy of our paper for the conference. Comments would be appreciated for both papers, since Dowling is a much better mathematical physicist than any of us and Chip's simulations agree 100% with the 1st 1/2 of Dowling's paper. To agree with the second 1/2, Chip needs to run his simulations assuming only reflected light and no transmitted light for equal components of the incident waves (assuming reflection from the null zones of the interference pattern). I will predict (as did Dowling's mathematics) that, for the equal waves, the results will be identical with Chip's figures 1 & 2. For his Figure 3, there will only be a component corresponding to the beat frequency envelope of the incident waves.</span></div></div><div class="yiv9635789758"><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">Thus a conclusion based on those results could be, to modify Chips comment, is:</span></div><div class="yiv9635789758" style="margin-left:30pt;"><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 12pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">"The interference patterns we see in experiment, agree with the simulated interference patterns. And these are obtained simply by the waves REFLECTING FROM each other. So there seems to be no physical basis for assuming any TRANSMISSION, when IDENTICAL waves ENCOUNTER each other."</span></div></div><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">The resolution of the two statements is Dowling's conclusion (and mine in the email):</span></div></div><div class="yiv9635789758" style="margin-left:30pt;"><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">"Dowling proposed that IDENTICAL waves interact. However, he was unable to PROVE reflection, rather than transmission."</span></div></div><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 12pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">I will extend that statement to contend that Chip, based on his simulations, will be unable to PROVE transmission, rather than reflection of identical waves.</span></div></div><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 12pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">For background, consider the basis for Bose-Einstein (<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv9635789758" target="_blank" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bose%E2%80%93Einstein_statistics" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="color:rgb(149, 79, 114);">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bose%E2%80%93Einstein_statistics</span></a>) and Dirac statistics (<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv9635789758" target="_blank" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fermi%E2%80%93Dirac_statistics" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="color:rgb(149, 79, 114);">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fermi%E2%80%93Dirac_statistics</span></a>) for non-interacting, identical particles. Does this resolve, or increase, the conflict between Chandra's NIW view and our contention that the observed interference region demands interference between two waves?</span></div></div><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">Andrew</span></div><div class="yiv9635789758"><div class="yiv9635789758"><div class="yiv9635789758"><div class="yiv9635789758"><div class="yiv9635789758"><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">_________________________________---</span></div><div class="yiv9635789758"><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 12pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span></div><blockquote class="yiv9635789758" style="border-style:none none none solid;border-left-color:windowtext;border-left-width:1pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0in 5pt 4.8pt;"><div class="yiv9635789758"><div class="yiv9635789758"><div class="yiv9635789758"><div class="yiv9635789758" style="border-style:solid none none;border-top-color:windowtext;border-top-width:1pt;padding:3pt 0in 0in;"><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><b class="yiv9635789758"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">To:</span></b><span class="yiv9635789758apple-converted-space"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span></span><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv9635789758" ymailto="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="color:rgb(149, 79, 114);">general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</span></a>></span></div><div class="yiv9635789758"><div class="yiv9635789758"><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"><br clear="none" class="yiv9635789758"><b class="yiv9635789758">Subject:</b><span class="yiv9635789758apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [General] Verification of Light Interactions</span></div></div></div></div></div><div class="yiv9635789758"><div class="yiv9635789758"><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span></div><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">Chip A. and Bob H.:<span class="yiv9635789758apple-converted-space"> </span></span></div><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span></div><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">Here is a copy of the animation by my student, Michael Ambroselli, which I have been showing people for several years now. The stationary pictures are now in several papers and also in my book.</span></div><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span></div><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">Of course, it does not show “reflection” of waves by waves; because we use the same prevalent model of superposition of wave amplitudes as simply linear sum of the propagating waves. We did not put in any wave-wave interaction term. Even people who firmly believe in “single photon interference”, sum the linear amplitudes. Some resonant detectors, if inserted within the volume of superposition, can carry out the non-linear square modulus operation to absorb the proportionate energy out of<span class="yiv9635789758apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="yiv9635789758"><i class="yiv9635789758">both the fields</i></b>, not just one or the other, as is erroneously assumed by most believers of “single photon interference”, defying the starting math of summing two amplitudes a1 and a2. The energy absorbed is proportional to: [(a1)-squared+(a2)-squared+ 2a1a2 cos2(pi)(nu)(t2-t1)]. Linear waves do not have the intrinsic physical capacity to carry out the mathematical quadratic operation.</span></div><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span></div><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">Chandra.</span><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv9635789758" name="14f807eaaf50ea2a_14f7fc6ed4bf9e19_14f7fa" href=""></a></div><div class="yiv9635789758"><div class="yiv9635789758" style="border-style:solid none none;border-top-color:windowtext;border-top-width:1pt;padding:3pt 0in 0in;"><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><b class="yiv9635789758"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Tahoma, sans-serif;">From:</span></b><span class="yiv9635789758apple-converted-space"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Tahoma, sans-serif;"> </span></span><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Tahoma, sans-serif;">General [<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv9635789758" ymailto="mailto:general-bounces+chandra.roychoudhuri=uconn.edu@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:general-bounces+chandra.roychoudhuri=uconn.edu@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="color:rgb(149, 79, 114);">mailto:general-bounces+chandra.roychoudhuri=uconn.edu@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</span></a>]<span class="yiv9635789758apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="yiv9635789758">On Behalf Of<span class="yiv9635789758apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Chip Akins<br clear="none" class="yiv9635789758"><b class="yiv9635789758">Sent:</b><span class="yiv9635789758apple-converted-space"> </span>Saturday, August 29, 2015 1:22 PM<br clear="none" class="yiv9635789758"><b class="yiv9635789758">To:</b><span class="yiv9635789758apple-converted-space"> </span>'robert hudgins';<span class="yiv9635789758apple-converted-space"> </span><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv9635789758" ymailto="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="color:rgb(149, 79, 114);">general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</span></a><br clear="none" class="yiv9635789758"><b class="yiv9635789758">Subject:</b><span class="yiv9635789758apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [General] Verification of Light Interactions</span></div></div></div><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span></div><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">Hi Robert Hudgins</span></div><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span></div><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">Thank you for the email. Your concepts show an “out-of-the-box” imagination, and so they were intriguing to me.</span></div><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span></div><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">So far, I have run some simulations to see what the interference patterns would be for waves<span class="yiv9635789758apple-converted-space"> </span><i class="yiv9635789758">which did not reflect off each other at all</i>. The way I know that these simulated waves do not reflect, is of course<span class="yiv9635789758apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="yiv9635789758">because I wrote the simulations to explicitly show only two waves passing through each other, with no ability to reflect off each other</b>.</span></div><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span></div><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">Here are the results of some of those simulations:</span></div><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span></div><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">Image: 1, Left Side, Two waves of the same frequency and phase, incident at 45 degrees.</span></div><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">Image: 2, Right Side, Two waves of the same frequency with 180 degree phase shift, incident at 45 degrees.<span class="yiv9635789758apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="yiv9635789758">Note the expected interference pattern and no reflection.</b></span></div><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"><image008.jpg><image009.jpg></span><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span></div><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span></div><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span></div><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span></div><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span></div><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span></div><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span></div><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span></div><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span></div><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span></div><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span></div><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span></div><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span></div><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span></div><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span></div><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span></div><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">Image: 3, two waves of different frequencies passing through each other.</span></div><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"><image010.jpg></span><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span></div><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span></div><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span></div><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span></div><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span></div><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span></div><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span></div><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span></div><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span></div><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span></div><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span></div><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span></div><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span></div><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span></div><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span></div><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">So far, using simulations, and varying angles of incidence,<span class="yiv9635789758apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="yiv9635789758">we are able to reproduce the experimentally observed interference patterns</b>.<span class="yiv9635789758apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="yiv9635789758">And this is done with no reflection of waves. <span class="yiv9635789758apple-converted-space"> </span></b></span></div><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span></div><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">So, sorry, I do not see any physical reason to assume that waves reflect off one another.<span class="yiv9635789758apple-converted-space"> </span></span></div><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span></div><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span></div><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">Chip</span></div><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span></div><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span></div><div class="yiv9635789758"><div class="yiv9635789758" style="border-style:solid none none;border-top-color:windowtext;border-top-width:1pt;padding:3pt 0in 0in;"><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><b class="yiv9635789758"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">From:</span></b><span class="yiv9635789758apple-converted-space"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span></span><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">robert hudgins [<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv9635789758" ymailto="mailto:hudginswr@msn.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:hudginswr@msn.com" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="color:rgb(149, 79, 114);">mailto:hudginswr@msn.com</span></a>]<span class="yiv9635789758apple-converted-space"> </span><br clear="none" class="yiv9635789758"><b class="yiv9635789758">Sent:</b><span class="yiv9635789758apple-converted-space"> </span>Friday, August 28, 2015 9:58 AM<br clear="none" class="yiv9635789758"><b class="yiv9635789758">To:</b><span class="yiv9635789758apple-converted-space"> </span><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv9635789758" ymailto="mailto:chipakins@gmail.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:chipakins@gmail.com" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="color:rgb(149, 79, 114);">chipakins@gmail.com</span></a>;<span class="yiv9635789758apple-converted-space"> </span><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv9635789758" ymailto="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="color:rgb(149, 79, 114);">general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</span></a><br clear="none" class="yiv9635789758"><b class="yiv9635789758">Cc:</b><span class="yiv9635789758apple-converted-space"> </span>robert hudgins <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv9635789758" ymailto="mailto:hudginswr@msn.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:hudginswr@msn.com" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="color:rgb(149, 79, 114);">hudginswr@msn.com</span></a>>; Ralph Penland <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv9635789758" ymailto="mailto:rpenland@gmail.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:rpenland@gmail.com" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="color:rgb(149, 79, 114);">rpenland@gmail.com</span></a>>; Andrew meulenberg <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv9635789758" ymailto="mailto:mules333@gmail.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:mules333@gmail.com" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="color:rgb(149, 79, 114);">mules333@gmail.com</span></a>><br clear="none" class="yiv9635789758"><b class="yiv9635789758">Subject:</b><span class="yiv9635789758apple-converted-space"> </span>Verification of Light Interactions</span></div></div></div><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span></div><div class="yiv9635789758"><div class="yiv9635789758"><div class="yiv9635789758"><div class="yiv9635789758"><div class="yiv9635789758"><div class="yiv9635789758"><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">Dear Chip,<br clear="none" class="yiv9635789758"><br clear="none" class="yiv9635789758"> To have our SPIE presentation, with its data, receive a broad, non-specific and vocal rejection from many attendees was personally confusing. From our perspective, those results (and ideas) had been thoroughly tested, retested and reconciled with current literature. The openness you indicated by your intent to try replicating some our results felt refreshing.<br clear="none" class="yiv9635789758"><br clear="none" class="yiv9635789758">What follows are some pointers about possible ways to work-around the problem of short wavelength intervals:<br clear="none" class="yiv9635789758"><br clear="none" class="yiv9635789758">The standing wave frequency is 1/2 the wave length of the light used. Consequently, some method of expansion is usually required for clear visualization of a standing wave pattern. Many investigators use Otto Wiener's 1890 method or some variation. Recently, a simplified classroom demonstration procedure was published.<br clear="none" class="yiv9635789758"><br clear="none" class="yiv9635789758"><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv9635789758" target="_blank" href="http://scitation.aip.org/content/aapt/journal/ajp/77/8/10.1119/1.3027506" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="color:rgb(149, 79, 114);">http://scitation.aip.org/content/aapt/journal/ajp/77/8/10.1119/1.3027506</span></a><br clear="none" class="yiv9635789758"><br clear="none" class="yiv9635789758">Standing waves of light in the form of optical lattices are currently a workhorse for manipulating ultra-cold bosons and fermions. The atoms are trapped between the oscillating potentials.<span class="yiv9635789758apple-converted-space"> </span><br clear="none" class="yiv9635789758"><br clear="none" class="yiv9635789758"><br clear="none" class="yiv9635789758">Another important standing wave/interference demonstration is the 1837 Lloyd's mirror experiment. <span class="yiv9635789758apple-converted-space"> </span><br clear="none" class="yiv9635789758"><br clear="none" class="yiv9635789758"><br clear="none" class="yiv9635789758">For our study we used a precision 15 X 5cm mirror. A laser beam was reflected a shallow angle and the resulting interference pattern was examined after expanding its image. This was accomplished with a convex mirror placed near the end of the reflection zone. We did this experiment to demonstrate that a mirror reflection would substitute for one of the beams in a two crossing-beam interference pattern, and that the null zones in the crossed-beam interference behaved as mirror--like reflection zones. <span class="yiv9635789758apple-converted-space"> </span><br clear="none" class="yiv9635789758"><br clear="none" class="yiv9635789758">The set-up we use for our interference studies is very simple. It requires only two components; a laser and a variable density filter. The variable density filter becomes a beam splitter when the laser beam is reflected from both the front and the back (partially mirrored) surface. Adjusting the relative intensities and phases of the emerging beams is accomplished by changing the reflection angle and the point where the beam strikes the splitter. Proper adjustment should give two clearly separated, and independent beams. This system gives clear, unambiguous results.<br clear="none" class="yiv9635789758"><br clear="none" class="yiv9635789758">We began our pursuit as a search for the "cancelled" energy of light interference. It was quickly obvious that<span class="yiv9635789758apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="yiv9635789758">all the light energy</b><span class="yiv9635789758apple-converted-space"> </span>in the beams emerging from the beam splitter was detectable in the interference patterns, that formed at some distance from the splitter. (Well after the beams had merged.) Although interference confined the light to a smaller area, (compressed the light) we found no evidence of "cancelled" light waves (energy) or of photodetector limitations. <span class="yiv9635789758apple-converted-space"> </span></span></div><div class="yiv9635789758"><div class="yiv9635789758"><div class="yiv9635789758" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:7.5pt;"> </span></div></div></div><div class="yiv9635789758"><div class="yiv9635789758"><div class="yiv9635789758" style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:7.5pt;">Hudgins, W. R., Meulenberg, A., Ramadass, S., “Evidence for unmediated momentum transfer between light waves,” Paper 8121-39, Proc. SPIE 8121 (2011)</span></div></div></div><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"> [1]Hudgins, W., R., A. Meulenberg, A., Penland, R. F. “Mechanism of wave interaction during interference,” SPIE (2013) Paper 8832-7, in The Nature of Light: What are Photons? <span class="yiv9635789758apple-converted-space"> </span><br clear="none" class="yiv9635789758"><br clear="none" class="yiv9635789758">Please let us know if you were successful, or not, with your testing.<br clear="none" class="yiv9635789758"><br clear="none" class="yiv9635789758">Bob <span class="yiv9635789758apple-converted-space"> </span></span></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" style="font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span></div></blockquote></div><div class="yiv9635789758MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv9635789758" 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