<html><body><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:16px"><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441771574792_3099">Logic gates alone do not provide a human interface. <br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441771574792_3099"><br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441771574792_3099" dir="ltr">Also, in the attempts I've seen to understand the physics of consciousness, one ends up considering DNA as an antenna with the brain as a transceiver. Not everything need be a digital computer.</div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441771574792_3099"><br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441771574792_3099" dir="ltr"> On top of the simplest binary logic computer, there needs be layers of firmware, system software for the operating system, layers in applications and layered communications. In a computer network the communications channels typically use <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OSI_model" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441771574792_6313" class="" style="background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">OSI</a> 7 seven layers of software and firmware over hardware (x.200 specification). TCP/IP is only a four layer model. Current implementations use additional layers and separate channels for management and security. </div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441771574792_3099" dir="ltr"><br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441771574792_3099" dir="ltr"><span id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441771574792_3342">Only one switch may be necessary <i>but that switch better be really, really fast</i>. O</span>ne can do a lot with a single switch, <i>preferably optica</i>l. Paging Alan Turing...</div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441771574792_3099"><br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441771574792_3099" dir="ltr"><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turing_machine" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441771574792_4540">Turing_machine</a></div><ul style="list-style-type: none; list-style-image: none; margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-left: 0px; line-height: 17.24799919128418px; color: rgb(37, 37, 37); text-align: center;" dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441771574792_5056" class=""><li style="text-align: left; margin-bottom: 0px;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441771574792_5058" class=""><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Turing_machine" title="Universal Turing machine" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(11, 0, 128); background-image: none; white-space: nowrap;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441771574792_5060" class=""><font size="3" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441771574792_5366">Universal Turing machine</font></a></li><li style="text-align: left; margin-bottom: 0px;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441771574792_5062" class=""><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternating_Turing_machine" title="Alternating Turing machine" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(11, 0, 128); background-image: none; white-space: nowrap; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441771574792_5064" class=""><font size="3" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441771574792_5528">Alternating Turing machine</font></a></li><li style="text-align: left; margin-bottom: 0px;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441771574792_5066" class=""><font size="3"><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_Turing_machine" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441771574792_4716" style="line-height: normal;" class="">Quantum Turing machine</a><br id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441771574792_5200" class=""></font></li><li style="text-align: left; margin-bottom: 0px;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441771574792_5070" class=""><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-deterministic_Turing_machine" title="Non-deterministic Turing machine" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(11, 0, 128); background-image: none; white-space: nowrap; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441771574792_5072" class=""><font size="3">Non-deterministic Turing machine</font></a></li><li style="text-align: left; margin-bottom: 0px;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441771574792_5074" class=""><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Read-only_Turing_machine" title="Read-only Turing machine" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(11, 0, 128); background-image: none; white-space: nowrap; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441771574792_5076" class=""><font size="3">Read-only Turing machine</font></a></li><li style="text-align: left; margin-bottom: 0px;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441771574792_5078" class=""><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Read-only_right_moving_Turing_machines" title="Read-only right moving Turing machines" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(11, 0, 128); background-image: none; white-space: nowrap; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441771574792_5080" class=""><font size="3" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441771574792_6346">Read-only right moving Turing machines</font></a></li><li style="text-align: left; margin-bottom: 0px;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441771574792_5082" class=""><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Probabilistic_Turing_machine" title="Probabilistic Turing machine" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(11, 0, 128); background-image: none; white-space: nowrap; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441771574792_5084" class=""><font size="3">Probabilistic Turing machine</font></a></li><li style="text-align: left; margin-bottom: 0px;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441771574792_5086" class=""><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multitape_Turing_machine" title="Multitape Turing machine" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(11, 0, 128); background-image: none; white-space: nowrap; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441771574792_5088" class=""><font size="3">Multitape Turing machine</font></a></li><li style="text-align: left; margin-bottom: 0px;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441771574792_5090" class=""><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi-track_Turing_machine" title="Multi-track Turing machine" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(11, 0, 128); background-image: none; white-space: nowrap; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441771574792_5092" class=""><font size="3" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441771574792_6345">Multi-track Turing machine</font></a></li><li style="text-align: left; margin-bottom: 0px;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441771574792_5094" class=""><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turing_machine_equivalents" title="Turing machine equivalents" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(11, 0, 128); background-image: none; white-space: nowrap; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441771574792_5096" class=""><font size="3" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441771574792_6808">Turing machine equivalents</font></a></li><li style="text-align: left; margin-bottom: 0px;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441771574792_5098" class=""><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turing_machine_examples" title="Turing machine examples" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(11, 0, 128); background-image: none; white-space: nowrap; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441771574792_5100" class=""><font size="3" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441771574792_6809">Turing machine examples</font></a></li></ul><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441771574792_6567"><font color="#252525" size="3"><span style="line-height: 17.24799919128418px;"><br></span></font></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441771574792_6567"><font color="#252525" size="3" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441771574792_6980"><span style="line-height: 17.24799919128418px;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441771574792_6979">The current status is that we can have a single atom switch, and switching can be done by a single photon. </span></font></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441771574792_6567"><font color="#252525" size="3"><span style="line-height: 17.24799919128418px;"><br></span></font></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441771574792_6564" dir="ltr"> Of course, your switch may vary. <br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441771574792_6564" dir="ltr"><br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441771574792_6564" dir="ltr">David</div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441771574792_3100" dir="ltr"><br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441771574792_3100" dir="ltr"><br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441771574792_3321"><br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441771574792_3322"><br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441771574792_3323"><br></div> <blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255); margin-left: 5px; margin-top: 5px; padding-left: 5px;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441771574792_3104"> <div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441771574792_3103"> <div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441771574792_3102"> <div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441771574792_3101"> <hr size="1" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441771574792_3179"> <font size="2" face="Arial" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441771574792_3180"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">From:</span></b> "af.kracklauer@web.de" <af.kracklauer@web.de><br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org <br><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Cc:</span></b> Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion <general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org>; M.A. <ambroselli@phys.uconn.edu> <br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Tuesday, September 8, 2015 8:58 PM<br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [General] Verification of Light Interactions<br> </font> </div> <div class="y_msg_container" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441771574792_3197"><br><div id="yiv4768431014"><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441771574792_3200"><div style="font-family:Verdana;font-size:12.0px;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441771574792_3199"><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441771574792_3198">If the most complex computer system is nothing but a (big) collection of off-on switches (binary logic), surely "the" mind, with orders of magnitude more switches, need be little else.
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441771574792_4941">
<div style="margin:10px 5px 5px 10px;padding:10px 0 10px 10px;border-left:2px solid #C3D9E5;word-wrap:break-word;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441771574792_4940">
<div style="margin:0 0 10px 0;"><b>Gesendet:</b> Mittwoch, 09. September 2015 um 00:58 Uhr<br>
<b>Von:</b> "Richard Gauthier" <richgauthier@gmail.com><br>
<b>An:</b> "Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion" <general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org>, "M.A." <ambroselli@phys.uconn.edu><br>
<b>Betreff:</b> Re: [General] Verification of Light Interactions</div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441771574792_4939">Please ignore last email, I hit send by accident.<br>
Richard<br>
<br>
> On Sep 8, 2015, at 3:57 PM, Richard Gauthier <richgauthier@gmail.com> wrote:<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
>> On Sep 8, 2015, at 12:35 PM, M.A. <ambroselli@phys.uconn.edu> wrote:<br>
>><br>
>> Hi Richard,<br>
>><br>
>> Interesting discussion.<br>
>> Why do you think that 'mind' may not be an epiphenomenon of<br>
>> matter? (I mean 'matter' here in the broader sense that includes<br>
>> EM and all the other known interactions - essentially Chandra's CTF)<br>
>><br>
>> I've recently heard (on NPR I believe) an argument that it is<br>
>> essentially impossible for us to reach a point at which we have<br>
>> expressed everything one can possibly express on twitter (i.e.<br>
>> within the confines of 140 characters). The argument included<br>
>> time scales on the order of the current age of the universe,<br>
>> and, I believe, only one language.<br>
>><br>
>> Now, the human (or even animal) body (including brain) is<br>
>> infinitely more complicated than 140 characters and in a<br>
>> continual feedback loop with its surroundings that consists<br>
>> itself of a mind-boggling number of (evolved) initial<br>
>> conditions etc.. I would not find it surprising at all that<br>
>> something like intelligence/mind/awareness would emerge.<br>
>><br>
>> I'm not saying I understand it, but I don't find it surprising.<br>
>> Incredibly complex systems can do (at least) one of two things:<br>
>> they can be on a path that causes them to blow up eventually<br>
>> (a lot of stars do that, I hear), or they settle into some kind<br>
>> of interesting dynamic steady state. Not sure were humanity falls.<br>
>> But then again the time scales are mind-boggling, too. Maybe it<br>
>> all just blows up in the end, and sometimes something interesting<br>
>> happens along (for part of) the way...<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> Michael<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>>> Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2015 10:52:11 -0700<br>
>>> From: Richard Gauthier <richgauthier@gmail.com><br>
>>> To: Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion<br>
>>> <general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org><br>
>>> Subject: Re: [General] Verification of Light Interactions<br>
>>> Message-ID: <5AE0CAA3-2648-4AE7-A87C-B261D99E886B@gmail.com><br>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"<br>
>>><br>
>>> Hello Chandra,<br>
>>> Thank you for your detailed explanations. Whether or not the CTF (or<br>
>>> the ether) is conscious is definitely an open question. We still need<br>
>>> to know how mind and subjective experience arise in this physical<br>
>>> universe, since that?s how we know about the physical universe. The old<br>
>>> materialistic explanation that mind is an epiphenomenon of organized<br>
>>> matter (?the brain secretes thought as the liver secretes bile.?) may<br>
>>> satisfy some materialists (thinking themselves to be scientific). But<br>
>>> this is not the only possible explanation of mind. Matter itself is yet<br>
>>> to be fully understood. It?s unlikely to be composed of other matter<br>
>>> ?all the way down?.<br>
>>> Richard<br>
>>><br>
>>>> On Sep 7, 2015, at 12:46 PM, Roychoudhuri, Chandra</div>
</div>
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