<html><head></head><body><div style="font-family: Verdana;font-size: 12.0px;"><div>OK, name one (1) interaction that can't be broken down into a long string of binary switches. (In technical terms: name a numbering system that cannot be converted to binary.) </div>
<div> </div>
<div>Likewise, name a series of words that cannot be reduced to (encoded as) digits in any base, and then reduced to binary.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Everything we "know" has been convayed to us using language. For most readers here that's English (but could be any human language). All of them are routinely encoded as numbers, mostly binary even, so who needs mystical fantazmagorical goings on to discuss the "mind"? There is nothing in anybody'a head but a large bunch of synopsis (molecular switches) that obviously individually can't do anything but turn on and off (transmit or block). Isn't that amazing enough? </div>
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<div style="margin:0 0 10px 0;"><b>Gesendet:</b> Mittwoch, 09. September 2015 um 06:56 Uhr<br/>
<b>Von:</b> davidmathes8@yahoo.com<br/>
<b>An:</b> "Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion" <general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org><br/>
<b>Cc:</b> "M.A." <ambroselli@phys.uconn.edu><br/>
<b>Betreff:</b> Re: [General] Verification of Light Interactions</div>
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<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441771574792_3099">Logic gates alone do not provide a human interface. </div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441771574792_3099"> </div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441771574792_3099">Also, in the attempts I've seen to understand the physics of consciousness, one ends up considering DNA as an antenna with the brain as a transceiver. Not everything need be a digital computer.</div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441771574792_3099"> </div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441771574792_3099"> On top of the simplest binary logic computer, there needs be layers of firmware, system software for the operating system, layers in applications and layered communications. In a computer network the communications channels typically use <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OSI_model" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441771574792_6313" style="background-color: rgb(255,255,255);" target="_blank">OSI</a> 7 seven layers of software and firmware over hardware (x.200 specification). TCP/IP is only a four layer model. Current implementations use additional layers and separate channels for management and security. </div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441771574792_3099"> </div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441771574792_3099"><span id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441771574792_3342">Only one switch may be necessary <i>but that switch better be really, really fast</i>. O</span>ne can do a lot with a single switch, <i>preferably optica</i>l. Paging Alan Turing...</div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441771574792_3099"> </div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441771574792_3099"><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turing_machine" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441771574792_4540" target="_blank">Turing_machine</a></div>
<ul id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441771574792_5056" style="list-style-type: none;list-style-image: none;margin-top: 0.0px;margin-bottom: 0.0px;padding-right: 0.0px;padding-left: 0.0px;line-height: 17.248px;color: rgb(37,37,37);text-align: center;">
<li id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441771574792_5058" style="text-align: left;margin-bottom: 0.0px;"><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Turing_machine" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441771574792_5060" style="text-decoration: none;color: rgb(11,0,128);background-image: none;white-space: nowrap;" target="_blank" title="Universal Turing machine"><font id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441771574792_5366" size="3">Universal Turing machine</font></a></li>
<li id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441771574792_5062" style="text-align: left;margin-bottom: 0.0px;"><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternating_Turing_machine" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441771574792_5064" style="text-decoration: none;color: rgb(11,0,128);background-image: none;white-space: nowrap;" target="_blank" title="Alternating Turing machine"><font id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441771574792_5528" size="3">Alternating Turing machine</font></a></li>
<li id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441771574792_5066" style="text-align: left;margin-bottom: 0.0px;"><font size="3"><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_Turing_machine" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441771574792_4716" style="line-height: normal;" target="_blank">Quantum Turing machine</a></font></li>
<li id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441771574792_5070" style="text-align: left;margin-bottom: 0.0px;"><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-deterministic_Turing_machine" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441771574792_5072" style="text-decoration: none;color: rgb(11,0,128);background-image: none;white-space: nowrap;" target="_blank" title="Non-deterministic Turing machine"><font size="3">Non-deterministic Turing machine</font></a></li>
<li id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441771574792_5074" style="text-align: left;margin-bottom: 0.0px;"><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Read-only_Turing_machine" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441771574792_5076" style="text-decoration: none;color: rgb(11,0,128);background-image: none;white-space: nowrap;" target="_blank" title="Read-only Turing machine"><font size="3">Read-only Turing machine</font></a></li>
<li id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441771574792_5078" style="text-align: left;margin-bottom: 0.0px;"><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Read-only_right_moving_Turing_machines" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441771574792_5080" style="text-decoration: none;color: rgb(11,0,128);background-image: none;white-space: nowrap;" target="_blank" title="Read-only right moving Turing machines"><font id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441771574792_6346" size="3">Read-only right moving Turing machines</font></a></li>
<li id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441771574792_5082" style="text-align: left;margin-bottom: 0.0px;"><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Probabilistic_Turing_machine" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441771574792_5084" style="text-decoration: none;color: rgb(11,0,128);background-image: none;white-space: nowrap;" target="_blank" title="Probabilistic Turing machine"><font size="3">Probabilistic Turing machine</font></a></li>
<li id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441771574792_5086" style="text-align: left;margin-bottom: 0.0px;"><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multitape_Turing_machine" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441771574792_5088" style="text-decoration: none;color: rgb(11,0,128);background-image: none;white-space: nowrap;" target="_blank" title="Multitape Turing machine"><font size="3">Multitape Turing machine</font></a></li>
<li id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441771574792_5090" style="text-align: left;margin-bottom: 0.0px;"><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi-track_Turing_machine" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441771574792_5092" style="text-decoration: none;color: rgb(11,0,128);background-image: none;white-space: nowrap;" target="_blank" title="Multi-track Turing machine"><font id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441771574792_6345" size="3">Multi-track Turing machine</font></a></li>
<li id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441771574792_5094" style="text-align: left;margin-bottom: 0.0px;"><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turing_machine_equivalents" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441771574792_5096" style="text-decoration: none;color: rgb(11,0,128);background-image: none;white-space: nowrap;" target="_blank" title="Turing machine equivalents"><font id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441771574792_6808" size="3">Turing machine equivalents</font></a></li>
<li id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441771574792_5098" style="text-align: left;margin-bottom: 0.0px;"><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turing_machine_examples" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441771574792_5100" style="text-decoration: none;color: rgb(11,0,128);background-image: none;white-space: nowrap;" target="_blank" title="Turing machine examples"><font id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441771574792_6809" size="3">Turing machine examples</font></a></li>
</ul>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441771574792_6567"> </div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441771574792_6567"><font color="#252525" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441771574792_6980" size="3"><span id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441771574792_6979" style="line-height: 17.248px;">The current status is that we can have a single atom switch, and switching can be done by a single photon. </span></font></div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441771574792_6567"> </div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441771574792_6564"> Of course, your switch may vary. </div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441771574792_6564"> </div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441771574792_6564">David</div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441771574792_3100"> </div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441771574792_3100"> </div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441771574792_3321"> </div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441771574792_3322"> </div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441771574792_3323"> </div>
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<hr id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441771574792_3179" size="1"/><font face="Arial" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441771574792_3180" size="2"><b><span style="font-weight: bold;">From:</span></b> "af.kracklauer@web.de" <af.kracklauer@web.de><br/>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org<br/>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Cc:</span></b> Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion <general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org>; M.A. <ambroselli@phys.uconn.edu><br/>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Tuesday, September 8, 2015 8:58 PM<br/>
<b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [General] Verification of Light Interactions</font></div>
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<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441771574792_3198">If the most complex computer system is nothing but a (big) collection of off-on switches (binary logic), surely "the" mind, with orders of magnitude more switches, need be little else.
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<div style="margin: 0 0 10.0px 0;"><b>Gesendet:</b> Mittwoch, 09. September 2015 um 00:58 Uhr<br/>
<b>Von:</b> "Richard Gauthier" <richgauthier@gmail.com><br/>
<b>An:</b> "Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion" <general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org>, "M.A." <ambroselli@phys.uconn.edu><br/>
<b>Betreff:</b> Re: [General] Verification of Light Interactions</div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441771574792_4939">Please ignore last email, I hit send by accident.<br/>
Richard<br/>
<br/>
> On Sep 8, 2015, at 3:57 PM, Richard Gauthier <richgauthier@gmail.com> wrote:<br/>
><br/>
><br/>
><br/>
>> On Sep 8, 2015, at 12:35 PM, M.A. <ambroselli@phys.uconn.edu> wrote:<br/>
>><br/>
>> Hi Richard,<br/>
>><br/>
>> Interesting discussion.<br/>
>> Why do you think that 'mind' may not be an epiphenomenon of<br/>
>> matter? (I mean 'matter' here in the broader sense that includes<br/>
>> EM and all the other known interactions - essentially Chandra's CTF)<br/>
>><br/>
>> I've recently heard (on NPR I believe) an argument that it is<br/>
>> essentially impossible for us to reach a point at which we have<br/>
>> expressed everything one can possibly express on twitter (i.e.<br/>
>> within the confines of 140 characters). The argument included<br/>
>> time scales on the order of the current age of the universe,<br/>
>> and, I believe, only one language.<br/>
>><br/>
>> Now, the human (or even animal) body (including brain) is<br/>
>> infinitely more complicated than 140 characters and in a<br/>
>> continual feedback loop with its surroundings that consists<br/>
>> itself of a mind-boggling number of (evolved) initial<br/>
>> conditions etc.. I would not find it surprising at all that<br/>
>> something like intelligence/mind/awareness would emerge.<br/>
>><br/>
>> I'm not saying I understand it, but I don't find it surprising.<br/>
>> Incredibly complex systems can do (at least) one of two things:<br/>
>> they can be on a path that causes them to blow up eventually<br/>
>> (a lot of stars do that, I hear), or they settle into some kind<br/>
>> of interesting dynamic steady state. Not sure were humanity falls.<br/>
>> But then again the time scales are mind-boggling, too. Maybe it<br/>
>> all just blows up in the end, and sometimes something interesting<br/>
>> happens along (for part of) the way...<br/>
>><br/>
>><br/>
>> Michael<br/>
>><br/>
>><br/>
>><br/>
>>> Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2015 10:52:11 -0700<br/>
>>> From: Richard Gauthier <richgauthier@gmail.com><br/>
>>> To: Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion<br/>
>>> <general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org><br/>
>>> Subject: Re: [General] Verification of Light Interactions<br/>
>>> Message-ID: <5AE0CAA3-2648-4AE7-A87C-B261D99E886B@gmail.com><br/>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"<br/>
>>><br/>
>>> Hello Chandra,<br/>
>>> Thank you for your detailed explanations. Whether or not the CTF (or<br/>
>>> the ether) is conscious is definitely an open question. We still need<br/>
>>> to know how mind and subjective experience arise in this physical<br/>
>>> universe, since that?s how we know about the physical universe. The old<br/>
>>> materialistic explanation that mind is an epiphenomenon of organized<br/>
>>> matter (?the brain secretes thought as the liver secretes bile.?) may<br/>
>>> satisfy some materialists (thinking themselves to be scientific). But<br/>
>>> this is not the only possible explanation of mind. Matter itself is yet<br/>
>>> to be fully understood. It?s unlikely to be composed of other matter<br/>
>>> ?all the way down?.<br/>
>>> Richard<br/>
>>><br/>
>>>> On Sep 7, 2015, at 12:46 PM, Roychoudhuri, Chandra</div>
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