<html><head></head><body><div style="font-family: Verdana;font-size: 12.0px;"><div>Hi Chip:</div>
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<div>Your position is the nowadays oft cited "intellignet design" theory. It has its strengths. Its weakness is that the time and space aspects of it are just not appreciable for us mortals. That is to say; if one calculates the probabilites for the current "too good (or complex) to be true without an intelligent designer" situation, taking full account of the age and size of the whole universe, the probabilitites are not at all so fantastic. All the more so if there was no big bang beginning, which I find less unlikely than that there was a particjlar instant chosen from infinity for a big bang or a creation. As I see it, "the jury is out" and likely to remain that way ad infinitum. </div>
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<div style="margin:0 0 10px 0;"><b>Gesendet:</b> Donnerstag, 10. September 2015 um 13:27 Uhr<br/>
<b>Von:</b> "Chip Akins" <chipakins@gmail.com><br/>
<b>An:</b> "'Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion'" <general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org><br/>
<b>Betreff:</b> Re: [General] Verification of Light Interactions</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: black;">Hi Al</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: black;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: black;">Having done some work in the field of artificial intelligence.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: black;">Neurons fire on somewhat of a sigmoid curve when the electrical impulses from all input synapses reach a threshold. Each synapse has a weighted value (attenuation or amplification). The networks are quite complex, and have both analog and digital components. But the fact that all of this can be modeled in a computer is an illustration that the problem can be broken down into binary logic. But binary is not how nature is doing it. The fact that we solve these problems using binary tools does not mean nature does it this way. Nature does it more efficiently.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: black;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: black;">I do not feel there must be consciousness in everything, or that space is necessarily built from consciousness. But I do feel there must be an intelligence generated origin of the universe.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: black;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: black;">For me it seems that there is just too much that is perfect in the design, to assume otherwise.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: black;"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: black;">Chip</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color: black;"> </span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size: 11.0pt;font-family: Calibri , sans-serif;">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 11.0pt;font-family: Calibri , sans-serif;"> General [mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org] <b>On Behalf Of </b>af.kracklauer@web.de<br/>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, September 09, 2015 1:46 PM<br/>
<b>To:</b> davidmathes8@yahoo.com; general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org<br/>
<b>Cc:</b> Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion <general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org>; M.A. <ambroselli@phys.uconn.edu><br/>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [General] Verification of Light Interactions</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 9.0pt;font-family: Verdana , sans-serif;">OK, name one (1) interaction that can't be broken down into a long string of binary switches. (In technical terms: name a numbering system that cannot be converted to binary.) </span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 9.0pt;font-family: Verdana , sans-serif;">Likewise, name a series of words that cannot be reduced to (encoded as) digits in any base, and then reduced to binary.</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size: 9.0pt;font-family: Verdana , sans-serif;">Everything we "know" has been convayed to us using language. For most readers here that's English (but could be any human language). All of them are routinely encoded as numbers, mostly binary even, so who needs mystical fantazmagorical goings on to discuss the "mind"? There is nothing in anybody'a head but a large bunch of synopsis (molecular switches) that obviously individually can't do anything but turn on and off (transmit or block). Isn't that amazing enough? </span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size: 9.0pt;font-family: Verdana , sans-serif;">Gesendet:</span></b><span style="font-size: 9.0pt;font-family: Verdana , sans-serif;"> Mittwoch, 09. September 2015 um 06:56 Uhr<br/>
<b>Von:</b> <a href="davidmathes8@yahoo.com" target="_parent">davidmathes8@yahoo.com</a><br/>
<b>An:</b> "Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion" <<a href="general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_parent">general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>><br/>
<b>Cc:</b> "M.A." <<a href="ambroselli@phys.uconn.edu" target="_parent">ambroselli@phys.uconn.edu</a>><br/>
<b>Betreff:</b> Re: [General] Verification of Light Interactions</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-family: Helvetica , sans-serif;color: black;">Logic gates alone do not provide a human interface. </span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-family: Helvetica , sans-serif;color: black;">Also, in the attempts I've seen to understand the physics of consciousness, one ends up considering DNA as an antenna with the brain as a transceiver. Not everything need be a digital computer.</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-family: Helvetica , sans-serif;color: black;"> On top of the simplest binary logic computer, there needs be layers of firmware, system software for the operating system, layers in applications and layered communications. In a computer network the communications channels typically use <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OSI_model" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441771574792_6313" target="_blank"><span style="background: white;">OSI</span></a> 7 seven layers of software and firmware over hardware (x.200 specification). TCP/IP is only a four layer model. Current implementations use additional layers and separate channels for management and security. </span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-family: Helvetica , sans-serif;color: black;">Only one switch may be necessary <i>but that switch better be really, really fast</i>. One can do a lot with a single switch, <i>preferably optica</i>l. Paging Alan Turing...</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-family: Helvetica , sans-serif;color: black;"><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turing_machine" target="_blank">Turing_machine</a></span></p>
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<li class="MsoNormal" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441771574792_5074" style="color: rgb(37,37,37);line-height: 12.95pt;background: white;"><span style="font-family: Helvetica , sans-serif;"><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Read-only_Turing_machine" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441771574792_5076" target="_blank" title="Read-only Turing machine"><span style="color: rgb(11,0,128);text-decoration: none;">Read-only Turing machine</span></a></span></li>
<li class="MsoNormal" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441771574792_5078" style="color: rgb(37,37,37);line-height: 12.95pt;background: white;"><span style="font-family: Helvetica , sans-serif;"><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Read-only_right_moving_Turing_machines" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441771574792_5080" target="_blank" title="Read-only right moving Turing machines"><span style="color: rgb(11,0,128);text-decoration: none;">Read-only right moving Turing machines</span></a></span></li>
<li class="MsoNormal" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441771574792_5082" style="color: rgb(37,37,37);line-height: 12.95pt;background: white;"><span style="font-family: Helvetica , sans-serif;"><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Probabilistic_Turing_machine" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441771574792_5084" target="_blank" title="Probabilistic Turing machine"><span style="color: rgb(11,0,128);text-decoration: none;">Probabilistic Turing machine</span></a></span></li>
<li class="MsoNormal" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441771574792_5086" style="color: rgb(37,37,37);line-height: 12.95pt;background: white;"><span style="font-family: Helvetica , sans-serif;"><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multitape_Turing_machine" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441771574792_5088" target="_blank" title="Multitape Turing machine"><span style="color: rgb(11,0,128);text-decoration: none;">Multitape Turing machine</span></a></span></li>
<li class="MsoNormal" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441771574792_5090" style="color: rgb(37,37,37);line-height: 12.95pt;background: white;"><span style="font-family: Helvetica , sans-serif;"><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi-track_Turing_machine" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441771574792_5092" target="_blank" title="Multi-track Turing machine"><span style="color: rgb(11,0,128);text-decoration: none;">Multi-track Turing machine</span></a></span></li>
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<li class="MsoNormal" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441771574792_5098" style="color: rgb(37,37,37);line-height: 12.95pt;background: white;"><span style="font-family: Helvetica , sans-serif;"><a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turing_machine_examples" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1441771574792_5100" target="_blank" title="Turing machine examples"><span style="color: rgb(11,0,128);text-decoration: none;">Turing machine examples</span></a></span></li>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-family: Helvetica , sans-serif;color: rgb(37,37,37);">The current status is that we can have a single atom switch, and switching can be done by a single photon. </span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-family: Helvetica , sans-serif;color: black;"> Of course, your switch may vary. </span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-family: Helvetica , sans-serif;color: black;">David</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><b><span style="font-size: 10.0pt;font-family: Arial , sans-serif;color: black;">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 10.0pt;font-family: Arial , sans-serif;color: black;"> "<a href="af.kracklauer@web.de" target="_parent">af.kracklauer@web.de</a>" <<a href="af.kracklauer@web.de" target="_parent">af.kracklauer@web.de</a>><br/>
<b>To:</b> <a href="general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_parent">general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a><br/>
<b>Cc:</b> Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion <<a href="general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_parent">general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>>; M.A. <<a href="ambroselli@phys.uconn.edu" target="_parent">ambroselli@phys.uconn.edu</a>><br/>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, September 8, 2015 8:58 PM<br/>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [General] Verification of Light Interactions</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.0pt;font-family: Verdana , sans-serif;color: black;">If the most complex computer system is nothing but a (big) collection of off-on switches (binary logic), surely "the" mind, with orders of magnitude more switches, need be little else. </span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><b><span style="font-size: 9.0pt;font-family: Verdana , sans-serif;color: black;">Gesendet:</span></b><span style="font-size: 9.0pt;font-family: Verdana , sans-serif;color: black;"> Mittwoch, 09. September 2015 um 00:58 Uhr<br/>
<b>Von:</b> "Richard Gauthier" <<a href="richgauthier@gmail.com" target="_parent">richgauthier@gmail.com</a>><br/>
<b>An:</b> "Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion" <<a href="general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_parent">general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>>, "M.A." <<a href="ambroselli@phys.uconn.edu" target="_parent">ambroselli@phys.uconn.edu</a>><br/>
<b>Betreff:</b> Re: [General] Verification of Light Interactions</span></p>
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<p class="MsoNormal" style="background: white;"><span style="font-size: 9.0pt;font-family: Verdana , sans-serif;color: black;">Please ignore last email, I hit send by accident.<br/>
Richard<br/>
<br/>
> On Sep 8, 2015, at 3:57 PM, Richard Gauthier <<a href="richgauthier@gmail.com" target="_parent">richgauthier@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br/>
><br/>
><br/>
><br/>
>> On Sep 8, 2015, at 12:35 PM, M.A. <<a href="ambroselli@phys.uconn.edu" target="_parent">ambroselli@phys.uconn.edu</a>> wrote:<br/>
>><br/>
>> Hi Richard,<br/>
>><br/>
>> Interesting discussion.<br/>
>> Why do you think that 'mind' may not be an epiphenomenon of<br/>
>> matter? (I mean 'matter' here in the broader sense that includes<br/>
>> EM and all the other known interactions - essentially Chandra's CTF)<br/>
>><br/>
>> I've recently heard (on NPR I believe) an argument that it is<br/>
>> essentially impossible for us to reach a point at which we have<br/>
>> expressed everything one can possibly express on twitter (i.e.<br/>
>> within the confines of 140 characters). The argument included<br/>
>> time scales on the order of the current age of the universe,<br/>
>> and, I believe, only one language.<br/>
>><br/>
>> Now, the human (or even animal) body (including brain) is<br/>
>> infinitely more complicated than 140 characters and in a<br/>
>> continual feedback loop with its surroundings that consists<br/>
>> itself of a mind-boggling number of (evolved) initial<br/>
>> conditions etc.. I would not find it surprising at all that<br/>
>> something like intelligence/mind/awareness would emerge.<br/>
>><br/>
>> I'm not saying I understand it, but I don't find it surprising.<br/>
>> Incredibly complex systems can do (at least) one of two things:<br/>
>> they can be on a path that causes them to blow up eventually<br/>
>> (a lot of stars do that, I hear), or they settle into some kind<br/>
>> of interesting dynamic steady state. Not sure were humanity falls.<br/>
>> But then again the time scales are mind-boggling, too. Maybe it<br/>
>> all just blows up in the end, and sometimes something interesting<br/>
>> happens along (for part of) the way...<br/>
>><br/>
>><br/>
>> Michael<br/>
>><br/>
>><br/>
>><br/>
>>> Date: Tue, 8 Sep 2015 10:52:11 -0700<br/>
>>> From: Richard Gauthier <<a href="richgauthier@gmail.com" target="_parent">richgauthier@gmail.com</a>><br/>
>>> To: Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion<br/>
>>> <<a href="general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_parent">general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>><br/>
>>> Subject: Re: [General] Verification of Light Interactions<br/>
>>> Message-ID: <<a href="5AE0CAA3-2648-4AE7-A87C-B261D99E886B@gmail.com" target="_parent">5AE0CAA3-2648-4AE7-A87C-B261D99E886B@gmail.com</a>><br/>
>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"<br/>
>>><br/>
>>> Hello Chandra,<br/>
>>> Thank you for your detailed explanations. Whether or not the CTF (or<br/>
>>> the ether) is conscious is definitely an open question. We still need<br/>
>>> to know how mind and subjective experience arise in this physical<br/>
>>> universe, since that?s how we know about the physical universe. The old<br/>
>>> materialistic explanation that mind is an epiphenomenon of organized<br/>
>>> matter (?the brain secretes thought as the liver secretes bile.?) may<br/>
>>> satisfy some materialists (thinking themselves to be scientific). But<br/>
>>> this is not the only possible explanation of mind. Matter itself is yet<br/>
>>> to be fully understood. It?s unlikely to be composed of other matter<br/>
>>> ?all the way down?.<br/>
>>> Richard<br/>
>>><br/>
>>>> On Sep 7, 2015, at 12:46 PM, Roychoudhuri, Chandra</span></p>
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