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    John Duffield:<br>
    <br>
    thank you for the link to the paper of Martin and John Williamson.<br>
    <br>
    Regarding your question for two loops rather two sub-particles. What
    would be the advantage? In that case the loop had to have a radius
    < 10^-19 m to comply with the scattering experiments. And if
    there is a motion within such loop, on the other hand the loop
    itself has to move at c like the basic particles do, what about the
    limitation to the speed of light?<br>
    <br>
    Regarding the wave property of the electron:<br>
    <br>
    The field (strong force) which causes the bind between the
    sub-particles reaches of cause also the outside of the electron. As
    both sub-particles orbit, it is an alternating field which
    propagates as a wave to any direction - at the speed of light. If
    now the electron moves, this wave accompanies the electron. It is
    the "pilot" wave postulated by Louis de Broglie. <br>
    <br>
    Scattering and interference: If the electron passes a double slit,
    this pilot wave moves through the slits and builds an interference
    structure. This interference structure guides the sub-particles
    ("basic particles") as it permanently does, in this case to follow
    this interference pattern. As the basic particles do not have any
    mass on their own, they follow the field without any resistance. If
    there is a detector behind the double slit to register the location
    of the arriving electrons, it will display the shape of the
    interference pattern and give the observer so the impression that he
    observes a wave.<br>
    <br>
    The mass / momentum of a photon has in my understanding a similar
    cause as mass and momentum of an electron. It is caused by its
    internal field. <br>
    <br>
    If the electron is in a bound state as e.g. on a shell of an atom,
    then its surrounding field is able to build a standing wave. <br>
    <br>
    You wrote about seismic waves as an analogy. Are your considerations
    about them covered by my explanation?<br>
    <br>
    Thank you for the reference to the paper of  <i>Martin and G.W. ’t
      Hooft. </i>It is also about the mass / momentum of photons. It
    has very interesting thoughts even though I do not follow the
    arguments in all points. But that could be subject to a separate
    discussion.<br>
    <br>
    Best regards<br>
    Albrecht<br>
     <br>
    <br>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 26.09.2015 um 17:57 schrieb John
      Duffield:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote cite="mid:003301d0f874$16232080$42696180$@btconnect.com"
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        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Albrecht:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">In
            case Martin is tied up, here’s his 1997 paper: <a
              moz-do-not-send="true"
              href="http://www.cybsoc.org/electron.pdf"><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.cybsoc.org/electron.pdf">http://www.cybsoc.org/electron.pdf</a></a>
            co-authored with John Williamson. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">As
            regards electron size, it’s field is what it is. In <a
              moz-do-not-send="true"
              href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_orbital#Electron_properties">atomic
              orbitals</a> electrons “exist as standing waves”. Standing
            wave, standing field. We can diffract electrons. I think the
            electron has size like a seismic wave has size. A seismic
            wave might have an amplitude of 1 metre, and a wavelength of
            a kilometre. But when it travels from A to B it isn’t just
            the houses on top of the AB line that shake. Houses shake a
            hundred miles away. And that seismic wave is still
            detectable on the other side f the Earth. It’s not totally
            different for an ocean wave, see <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4a/Deep_water_wave.gif">this
              gif</a>. The amplitude might be 1m, but that isn’t the
            size of the wave, nor is the wavelength. The red test
            particles are still circulating deep below the water. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Try
            to imagine a wave going round and round, in a  double loop,
            then make it a tighter loop. Then have a look at <a
              moz-do-not-send="true"
              href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_knot_theory">some
              knots</a>. Photon momentum is a measure of resistance to
            change-in-motion for a wave propagating linearly at c. When
            it’s a 511keV wave going round and round at c, we don’t call
            it a photon any more. But it still exhibits resistance to
            change-in-motion. Only we don’t call it a momentum any more.
            We call it mass. Make sure you read <a
              moz-do-not-send="true"
              href="http://www.tardyon.de/mirror/hooft/hooft.htm">this</a>.
            It’s not the Nobel ‘t Hooft. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Regards<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US">John
            Duffield<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <div>
          <div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
            1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
            <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext"
                  lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext"
                lang="EN-US"> General
                [<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:general-bounces+johnduffield=btconnect.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org">mailto:general-bounces+johnduffield=btconnect.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>]
                <b>On Behalf Of </b>Dr. Albrecht Giese<br>
                <b>Sent:</b> 26 September 2015 15:46<br>
                <b>To:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org">general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a><br>
                <b>Subject:</b> Re: [General] research papers<o:p></o:p></span></p>
          </div>
        </div>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Hi Martin, Al,
          and all,<br>
          <br>
          thank you all for your contributions.<br>
          <br>
          <u>Regarding the size of the electron:</u><br>
          <br>
          As Al argued in his example of the sun: If the scattered
          object is passing by without touching, the angular
          distribution is independent of the size of the object (for the
          1/r^2 case). But that changes if the scattered particle hits
          the body of the "ball". In a last experiment in 2004 at DESY
          there was an experiment performed in which electrons were
          scattered against quarks (of a proton). The "common" size of
          both particles resulted in a bit less than 10^-18 m. This
          limit is given by the ratio of scattered events which react
          different from the 1/r^2 rule. - In this experiment it was
          also found that the electron is not only subject to the
          electric interaction but also to the strong interaction. I
          think that this is also important for assessing electron
          models. <br>
          <br>
          This result of the size seems in clear conflict with the
          evaluation of Schrödinger and Wilczek using the uncertainty
          relation. Schroedinger made the following statement to it:
          "Here I have got the following result for the size of the
          electron (i.e. the Compton radius). But we know that the
          electron is point-like. So, I must have an error in my
          evaluation. However, I do not find this error." So also for
          Schrödinger this was an unsolvable conflict.<br>
          <br>
          I think that if the electron would be point like on the one
          hand but oscillate far enough so as to fill the size of the
          Compton wavelength, this would be a violation of the
          conservation of momentum. Very clearly, a single object cannot
          oscillate. That was also obvious for Schrödinger and clearly
          his reason to call the internal motion "Zitterbewegung". This
          is a word which does not exist in the German vocabulary of
          physical terms. But Schrödinger hesitated (by good reason) to
          use the German word for "oscillation".<br>
          <br>
          On the other hand, if the electron is built by two
          sub-particles, this solves the problem. The sub-particle is
          point-like (at least with respect to its charge), but both
          sub-particles orbit each other, which reserves the momentum
          law, and the orbital radius is the reduced Compton wavelength.
          - The argument of Martin that a model of two sub-particles is
          "refuted by the experiment" is often heart but not applicable
          to my model. The usual argument is that a sufficient effort
          has been done to decompose an electron by a strong
          bombardment. This was also done here at DESY. But in my model
          the sub-particles have no mass on their own (the mass of the
          electron is caused by the dynamics of the binding field). And
          in such a case one of the sub-particles may be accelerated by
          an arbitrary amount, the other one can always follow without
          any force coming up. A decomposition by bombardment is
          therefore never possible. - I have discussed this point with
          the research director of DESY who was responsible for such
          experiments, and after at first objecting it, he admitted,
          that my model is not in conflict with these experiments.<br>
          <br>
          Martin: Where do I find your paper of 1997?<br>
          <br>
          <u>Regarding dilation:</u><br>
          <br>
          There is a lot of clear indications for dilation. Two
          examples:<br>
          -  The atomic clocks in the GPS satellites are slowed down
          which has to be compensated for<br>
          -  In the Muon storage ring at CERN the lifetime of these
          Muons was extended by the great amount ca. 250, which was in
          precise agreement with special relativity.<br>
          <br>
          Contraction, on the other hand, is in so far more a point of
          interpretation as it cannot be directly measured - in contrast
          to dilation.<br>
          <br>
          Best wishes<br>
          Albrecht<br>
          <br>
          <br>
          <o:p></o:p></p>
        <div>
          <p class="MsoNormal">Am 26.09.2015 um 01:48 schrieb <a
              moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:af.kracklauer@web.de"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:af.kracklauer@web.de">af.kracklauer@web.de</a></a>:<o:p></o:p></p>
        </div>
        <blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
          <div>
            <div>
              <div>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                    style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">Well!
                     The water I was trying to offer was: might it not
                    be a good idea to distinguish clearly and
                    specifically between the size of a point and the
                    size of the volumn in which this point is
                    insessently moving about.  If your 97 paper does
                    that, my appologies.  Does it?  Forgive me, I have
                    over a couple hundred papers I'd like to have read
                    and digested laying about, I do my best but still
                    can't get to them all.  The chances are better,
                    however, if a paper attracts lots of attention
                    because it predicted something new to be observed
                    empirically.  Did it?  <o:p></o:p></span></p>
              </div>
              <div>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                    style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
              </div>
              <div>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                    style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">BTW,
                    I did not imply that the work I refered to is
                    better.  But, it (in Rowland's avantar) is certainly
                    as extensive as yours.  In any case, it potentially
                    undermines your "shot-from-the-hip" criticism of
                    Albrecht's program by introducing a feature to which
                    neither you nor John refered to, in my best memory,
                    at San Diego.  My comment was not intended ad
                    hominum, but made on the presumtion that you too
                    have hundreds of unread papers available.  <o:p></o:p></span></p>
              </div>
              <div>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                    style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
              </div>
              <div>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                    style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">Best,
                     Al<o:p></o:p></span></p>
              </div>
              <div>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                    style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
              </div>
              <div>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                    style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
              </div>
              <div>
                <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                    style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"> 
                    <o:p></o:p></span></p>
                <div style="border:none;border-left:solid #C3D9E5
                  1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm
                  8.0pt;margin-left:7.5pt;margin-top:7.5pt;margin-right:3.75pt;margin-bottom:3.75pt;word-wrap:
                  break-word;-webkit-nbsp-mode:
                  space;-webkit-line-break: after-white-space"
                  name="quote">
                  <div style="margin-bottom:7.5pt">
                    <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
                          style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">Gesendet:</span></b><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"> Freitag,
                        25. September 2015 um 19:56 Uhr<br>
                        <b>Von:</b> "Mark, Martin van der" <a
                          moz-do-not-send="true"
                          href="mailto:martin.van.der.mark@philips.com"><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:martin.van.der.mark@philips.com"><martin.van.der.mark@philips.com></a></a><br>
                        <b>An:</b> "Nature of Light and Particles -
                        General Discussion" <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                          href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"><general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org></a><br>
                        <b>Betreff:</b> Re: [General] research papers<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                  </div>
                  <div name="quoted-content">
                    <div>
                      <div>
                        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                            style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">Al,
                            just read what i wrote. It is not shooting
                            from the hip. I am refering to actual
                            experiments, all cited in the paper i
                            refered to. Further, you are just repeating
                            what i said already. I can only bring you to
                            the water, i cannot make you drink. And then
                            you refer to other doubtfull work, as id it
                            were better. Good luck.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                      </div>
                      <div>
                        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                            style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">Regards,
                            Martin<br>
                            <br>
                            Verstuurd vanaf mijn iPhone<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                      </div>
                      <div>
                        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                            style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"><br>
                            Op 25 sep. 2015 om 19:16 heeft "<a
                              moz-do-not-send="true"
                              href="mailto:af.kracklauer@web.de"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:af.kracklauer@web.de">af.kracklauer@web.de</a></a>"
                            <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                              href="mailto:af.kracklauer@web.de">af.kracklauer@web.de</a>>
                            het volgende geschreven:<br>
                             <o:p></o:p></span></p>
                      </div>
                      <blockquote
                        style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
                        <div>
                          <div>
                            <div>
                              <div>
                                <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                    style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">Dear
                                    Martin,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                              </div>
                              <div>
                                <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                    style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
                              </div>
                              <div>
                                <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                    style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">Perhaps
                                    it's my Texas background, but I
                                    think I sense some "shoot'n from the
                                    hip."<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                              </div>
                              <div>
                                <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                    style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
                              </div>
                              <div>
                                <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                    style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">You
                                    have not done an experiment, but (at
                                    best) a calculation based on some
                                    hypothtical input of your choise.
                                     Maybe it's good, maybe not.  <o:p></o:p></span></p>
                              </div>
                              <div>
                                <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                    style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
                              </div>
                              <div>
                                <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                    style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">The
                                    Sun scatters as a point only those
                                    projectiles that don't get close.  
                                    So far, no scattering off electons
                                    has gotten close enough to engage
                                    any internal structure, "they" say
                                    (I#ll defer to experts up-to-date).
                                     Nevertheless, electrons are in
                                    constant motion at or near the speed
                                    of light (Zitterbewegung) and
                                    therefore at the time scales of the
                                    projectiles buzz around (zittern) in
                                    a certain amout of space, which
                                    seems to me must manifest itself as
                                    if there were spacially exteneded
                                    structure within the scattering
                                    cross-section.  Why not?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                              </div>
                              <div>
                                <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                    style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
                              </div>
                              <div>
                                <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                    style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">Not
                                    to defend Albrecht's model as he
                                    describes it, but many folks (say
                                    Peter Rowlands at Liverpool, for
                                    example) model elemtary particles in
                                    terms of the partiicle itself
                                    interacting with its induced virtual
                                    image (denoted by Peter as the "rest
                                    of the universe").   This
                                    "inducement" is a kind of
                                    polarization effect.  Every charge
                                    repells all other like charges and
                                    attracts all other unlike charges
                                    resulting in what can be modeled as
                                    a virtual charge of the opposite
                                    gender superimposed on itself in the
                                    static approximation.  But, because
                                    the real situation is fluid, the
                                    virtual charge's motion is delayed
                                    as caused by finite light speed, so
                                    that the two chase each other. Etc.
                                    Looks something like Albrecht's
                                    pairs.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                              </div>
                              <div>
                                <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                    style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
                              </div>
                              <div>
                                <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                    style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">I
                                    too havn't read your 97 paper yet,
                                    but I bet it's unlikely that you all
                                    took such consideration into
                                    account.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                              </div>
                              <div>
                                <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                    style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
                              </div>
                              <div>
                                <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                    style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">Best,
                                    Al <o:p></o:p></span></p>
                              </div>
                              <div>
                                <p class="MsoNormal"><span
                                    style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"> 
                                    <o:p></o:p></span></p>
                                <div
                                  style="border:none;border-left:solid
                                  #C3D9E5 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm
8.0pt;margin-left:7.5pt;margin-top:7.5pt;margin-right:3.75pt;margin-bottom:3.75pt">
                                  <div style="margin-bottom:7.5pt">
                                    <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
                                          style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">Gesendet:</span></b><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"> Freitag,
                                        25. September 2015 um 18:44 Uhr<br>
                                        <b>Von:</b> "Mark, Martin van
                                        der" <<a
                                          moz-do-not-send="true"
                                          href="mailto:martin.van.der.mark@philips.com"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:martin.van.der.mark@philips.com">martin.van.der.mark@philips.com</a></a>><br>
                                        <b>An:</b> "Nature of Light and
                                        Particles - General Discussion"
                                        <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                                          href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org">general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>>,
                                        "<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                                          href="phys@a-giese.de"
                                          target="_parent">phys@a-giese.de</a>"
                                        <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                                          href="phys@a-giese.de"
                                          target="_parent">phys@a-giese.de</a>><br>
                                        <b>Betreff:</b> Re: [General]
                                        research papers<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                                  </div>
                                  <div>
                                    <div>
                                      <div>
                                        <p class="MsoNormal"
                                          style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Dear
                                            Al, dear Albrecht, dear all,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                        <p class="MsoNormal"
                                          style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">In
                                            the paper John W and I
                                            published in 1997, the
                                            situation is explained
                                            briefly but adequately.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                        <p class="MsoNormal"
                                          style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Clearly
                                            Albrecht has not read it or,
                                            perhaps he did but does not
                                            want to understand it
                                            because it really destroys
                                            his work. This is a double
                                            pity, of course, but we are
                                            talking science, not
                                            sentiment, and I do not want
                                            to take away anything from
                                            the person you are Albrecht.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                        <p class="MsoNormal"
                                          style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">The
                                            electron has a finite size,
                                            of the oder of the Compton
                                            wavelength, but the Coulomb
                                            interaction is perfectly
                                            matched in ANY experiment,
                                            which means there are no
                                            internal bits to the
                                            electron and that it behaves
                                            as a point-LIKE scatterer,
                                            not a to be mistaken by a
                                            POINT as is done most of the
                                            time. Note that even the sun
                                            has point-like scattering
                                            for all comets that go round
                                            it, its gravitational field
                                            seems to come from the
                                            centre of the sun. Until you
                                            hit other bits. There are no
                                            other bits for the electron,
                                            but at very high energy the
                                            4-momentum exchange combined
                                            with the resolving power at
                                            that high energy make that a
                                            Compton-size object CANNOT
                                            be resolved in principle, if
                                            and only if it is of
                                            electromagnetic origin.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                        <p class="MsoNormal"
                                          style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">The
                                            electron is a single thing,
                                            of electromagnetic origin
                                            only, there is NO OTHER WAY
                                            to fit the experimental
                                            results.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                        <p class="MsoNormal"
                                          style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Well,
                                            maybe there is another way,
                                            but I cannot see it.
                                            Certainly it is not two
                                            parts rotating about each
                                            other, because that is
                                            refuted by experiment, all
                                            those models can go in the
                                            bin and are a waste of time
                                            and energy.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                        <p class="MsoNormal"
                                          style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Regards,
                                            Martin</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                        <p class="MsoNormal"
                                          style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                        <div>
                                          <p class="MsoNormal"
                                            style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:navy">Dr.
                                              Martin B. van der Mark</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                          <p class="MsoNormal"
                                            style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:navy">Principal
                                              Scientist, Minimally
                                              Invasive Healthcare</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                          <p class="MsoNormal"
                                            style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:navy"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                          <p class="MsoNormal"
                                            style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:navy">Philips
                                              Research Europe -
                                              Eindhoven</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                          <p class="MsoNormal"
                                            style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:navy">High
                                              Tech Campus, Building 34
                                              (WB2.025)</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                          <p class="MsoNormal"
                                            style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:navy">Prof.
                                              Holstlaan 4</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                          <p class="MsoNormal"
                                            style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:navy">5656
                                              AE  Eindhoven, The
                                              Netherlands</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                          <p class="MsoNormal"
                                            style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:navy">Tel:
                                              +31 40 2747548</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                        </div>
                                        <p class="MsoNormal"
                                          style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                        <div>
                                          <div
                                            style="border:none;border-top:solid
                                            #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt
                                            0cm 0cm 0cm">
                                            <p class="MsoNormal"
                                              style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">
                                                General [<a
                                                  moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:general-bounces+martin.van.der.mark=philips.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:general-bounces+martin.van.der.mark=philips.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org">mailto:general-bounces+martin.van.der.mark=philips.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a></a>]
                                                <b>On Behalf Of </b><a
                                                  moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:af.kracklauer@web.de"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:af.kracklauer@web.de">af.kracklauer@web.de</a></a><br>
                                                <b>Sent:</b> vrijdag 25
                                                september 2015 18:05<br>
                                                <b>To:</b> <a
                                                  moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:phys@a-giese.de"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:phys@a-giese.de">phys@a-giese.de</a></a>; <a
                                                  moz-do-not-send="true"
href="general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_parent"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org">general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a></a><br>
                                                <b>Cc:</b> Nature of
                                                Light and Particles -
                                                General Discussion<br>
                                                <b>Subject:</b> Re:
                                                [General] research
                                                papers</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                          </div>
                                        </div>
                                        <p class="MsoNormal"
                                          style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"> <o:p></o:p></p>
                                        <div>
                                          <div>
                                            <div>
                                              <p class="MsoNormal"
                                                style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">Gentelmen:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                            </div>
                                            <div>
                                              <p class="MsoNormal"
                                                style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                            </div>
                                            <div>
                                              <p class="MsoNormal"
                                                style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">Shouldn't
                                                  a clear and explicit
                                                  distinction between
                                                  the "size" of the
                                                  electron and the
                                                  "extent" of its
                                                  Zitterbewegung be
                                                  made.   My best info,
                                                  perhaps not
                                                  up-to-date, is that
                                                  although scattering
                                                  experiments put an
                                                  upper limit on the
                                                  size (10^-19m), there
                                                  exists in fact no
                                                  evidence that the
                                                  electron has any
                                                  finite size
                                                  whatsoever.  This is
                                                  in contrast to the
                                                  space it consumes with
                                                  its Zitter-motion,
                                                  which is what would be
                                                  calculated using QM
                                                  (Heisenberg uncertanty
                                                  mostly).    Seems to
                                                  me that most of what
                                                  folks theorize about
                                                  is the latter, without
                                                  saying so, and perhaps
                                                  often without even
                                                  recognizing it.
                                                   However, since the
                                                  Zitter volumn will
                                                  cause electrons to be
                                                  moving targets, it
                                                  must also have some
                                                  effect on its
                                                  scatering
                                                  cross-section too.  I
                                                  don't know how this is
                                                  sorted out in
                                                  scattering
                                                  calculations---if at
                                                  all.  (Albrectht?)</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                            </div>
                                            <div>
                                              <p class="MsoNormal"
                                                style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                            </div>
                                            <div>
                                              <p class="MsoNormal"
                                                style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">Correct
                                                  me if I'm wrong.
                                                   Best,  Al</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                            </div>
                                            <div>
                                              <p class="MsoNormal"
                                                style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">  </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                              <div
                                                style="border:none;border-left:solid
                                                #C3D9E5
                                                1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm
                                                0cm
8.0pt;margin-left:7.5pt;margin-top:7.5pt;margin-right:3.75pt;margin-bottom:3.75pt">
                                                <div
                                                  style="margin-bottom:7.5pt">
                                                  <p class="MsoNormal"
                                                    style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><b><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">Gesendet:</span></b><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"> Freitag,
                                                      25. September 2015
                                                      um 15:06 Uhr<br>
                                                      <b>Von:</b> "Dr.
                                                      Albrecht Giese"
                                                      <<a
                                                        moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:genmail@a-giese.de"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:genmail@a-giese.de">genmail@a-giese.de</a></a>><br>
                                                      <b>An:</b> "Richard
                                                      Gauthier" <<a
                                                        moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:richgauthier@gmail.com"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:richgauthier@gmail.com">richgauthier@gmail.com</a></a>>, <a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:phys@a-giese.de"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:phys@a-giese.de">phys@a-giese.de</a></a><br>
                                                      <b>Cc:</b> "Nature
                                                      of Light and
                                                      Particles -
                                                      General
                                                      Discussion" <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
                                                        href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org">general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a></a>><br>
                                                      <b>Betreff:</b> Re:
                                                      [General] research
                                                      papers</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                                </div>
                                                <div>
                                                  <div>
                                                    <p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">Hello
                                                        Richard,<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        according to
                                                        present
                                                        mainstream
                                                        physics the size
                                                        of the electron
                                                        is not more than
                                                        10^-19 m. This
                                                        is concluded
                                                        from scattering
                                                        experiments
                                                        where the size
                                                        of the electric
                                                        charge is the
                                                        quantity of
                                                        influence.<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        As present
                                                        mainstream
                                                        physics
                                                        (including the
                                                        QED of Feynman)
                                                        assume that the
                                                        electron has no
                                                        internal
                                                        structure and
                                                        that the
                                                        electric force
                                                        is the only one
                                                        effective, this
                                                        size is
                                                        identified with
                                                        the size of the
                                                        whole electron.
                                                        This is in
                                                        severe conflict
                                                        with the
                                                        calculations of
                                                        Schrödinger and
                                                        of Wilczek based
                                                        on QM.<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        I have the
                                                        impression that
                                                        several of us
                                                        (including me)
                                                        have models of
                                                        the electron
                                                        which assume
                                                        some extension
                                                        roughly
                                                        compatible with
                                                        the QM
                                                        calculations.<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        Some details of
                                                        my model related
                                                        to this
                                                        question: Here
                                                        the electron is
                                                        built by 2
                                                        sub-particles
                                                        ("basic
                                                        particles")
                                                        which orbit each
                                                        other at c. The
                                                        electric force
                                                        is not the only
                                                        force inside.
                                                        The radius
                                                        following from
                                                        the magnetic
                                                        moment is the
                                                        reduced Compton
                                                        wavelength, and
                                                        the mass of the
                                                        electron follows
                                                        with high
                                                        precision from
                                                        this radius. At
                                                        motion the size
                                                        decreases by the
                                                        relativistic
                                                        factor gamma,
                                                        and so the mass
                                                        increases by
                                                        this factor. -
                                                        However there
                                                        was always a
                                                        point of a
                                                        certain weakness
                                                        in my model: I
                                                        could not prove
                                                        that the
                                                        electron is
                                                        built by just 2
                                                        sub-particles
                                                        carrying 1/2
                                                        elementary
                                                        charge each. Now
                                                        Wilczek writes
                                                        in his article
                                                        that in certain
                                                        circumstances -
                                                        superconductivity
                                                        in the presence
                                                        of a magnetic
                                                        field - the
                                                        electron is
                                                        decomposed into
                                                        two halves. This
                                                        is the result of
                                                        measurements.
                                                        How can this
                                                        happen with a
                                                        point-like
                                                        particle? This
                                                        is a mystery for
                                                        Wilczek. But in
                                                        the view of my
                                                        model it is no
                                                        mystery but
                                                        quite plausible.
                                                        It only needs
                                                        now a
                                                        quantitative
                                                        calculation of
                                                        this process
                                                        which I
                                                        presently do not
                                                        have.<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                        All the best to
                                                        you<br>
                                                        Albrecht<br>
                                                        <br>
                                                          </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                                    <div>
                                                      <p
                                                        class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">Am
                                                          23.09.2015 um
                                                          19:02 schrieb
                                                          Richard
                                                          Gauthier:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                                    </div>
                                                    <blockquote
                                                      style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
                                                      <div>
                                                        <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">Hello
                                                          Albrecht,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                                      </div>
                                                      <div>
                                                        <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"> 
                                                           Yes, all of
                                                          our electron
                                                          models here
                                                          have a radius
                                                          related to the
                                                          Compton
                                                          wavelength.
                                                          Dirac’s
                                                          zitterbewegung
                                                          amplitude is
                                                          1/2 of the
                                                          reduced
                                                          Compton
                                                          wavelength, or
                                                          hbar/2mc ,
                                                          which is the
                                                          radius of the
                                                          generic
                                                          circulating
                                                          charged
                                                          photon’s
                                                          trajectory in
                                                          my circulating
                                                          spin 1/2
                                                          charged photon
                                                          model for a
                                                          resting
                                                          electron. That
                                                          radius
                                                          decreases by a
                                                          factor of
                                                          gamma^2 in a
                                                          moving
                                                          electron. Does
                                                          yours?
                                                          Incorporating
                                                          a more
                                                          detailed spin
                                                          1/2 charged
                                                          photon model
                                                          with the
                                                          generic model
                                                          could bring
                                                          the model's
                                                          radius up to
                                                          the reduced
                                                          Compton
                                                          wavelength
                                                          hbar/mc.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                                      </div>
                                                      <div>
                                                        <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">   
                                                          all the best,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                                      </div>
                                                      <div>
                                                        <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">     
                                                             Richard</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                                      </div>
                                                      <p
                                                        class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">  </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                                      <div>
                                                        <blockquote
                                                          style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">On
                                                          Sep 22, 2015,
                                                          at 11:13 AM,
                                                          Dr. Albrecht
                                                          Giese <<a
                                                          moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:genmail@a-giese.de"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:genmail@a-giese.de">genmail@a-giese.de</a></a>> wrote:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">  </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">Dear
                                                          Richard,<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          thank you for
                                                          this reference
                                                          to the article
                                                          of Frank
                                                          Wilczek.<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          He has a
                                                          quantum
                                                          mechanical
                                                          argument to
                                                          determine a
                                                          size for the
                                                          electron. It
                                                          is the
                                                          application of
                                                          the
                                                          uncertainty
                                                          relation to
                                                          the magnetic
                                                          moment of the
                                                          electron. The
                                                          result is as
                                                          you write: 2.4
                                                          x 10^-12 m,
                                                          which is the
                                                          Compton
                                                          wavelength of
                                                          the electron.<br>
                                                          This is a bit
                                                          similar to the
                                                          way as Erwin
                                                          Schrödinger
                                                          has determined
                                                          the size of
                                                          the electron
                                                          using the
                                                          Dirac function
                                                          in 1930. There
                                                          Schrödinger
                                                          determined the
                                                          "amplitude of
                                                          the
                                                          zitterbewegung"
                                                          also applying
                                                          the
                                                          uncertainty
                                                          relation to
                                                          the rest
                                                          energy of the
                                                          electron. It
                                                          was "roughly"
                                                          10^-13 m,
                                                          which also
                                                          meant in his
                                                          words the
                                                          Compton
                                                          wavelength of
                                                          the electron.<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          In my electron
                                                          model its
                                                          radius is 3.86
                                                          x 10^-13 m,
                                                          which is
                                                          exactly the
                                                          "reduced"
                                                          Compton
                                                          wavelength.
                                                          But here it is
                                                          not an
                                                          expectation
                                                          value as in
                                                          the cases of
                                                          Wilczek and
                                                          Schrödinger
                                                          but the exact
                                                          radius of the
                                                          orbits of the
                                                          basic
                                                          particles.<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          Thank you
                                                          again and best
                                                          wishes<br>
                                                          Albrecht<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                            </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">Am
                                                          21.09.2015 um
                                                          05:01 schrieb
                                                          Richard
                                                          Gauthier:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <blockquote
                                                          style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">This
                                                          2013 Nature
                                                          comment “The
                                                          enigmatic
                                                          electron” by
                                                          Frank Wilczek
                                                          at <a
                                                          moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.nature.com/articles/498031a.epdf?referrer_access_token=ben9To-3oo1NBniBt2zIw9RgN0jAjWel9jnR3ZoTv0Mr0WZkh3ZGwaOU__QIZA8EEsfyjmdvPM68ya-MFh194zghek6jh7WqtGYeYWmES35o2U71x2DQVk0PFLoHQk5V5M-cak670GmcqKy2iZm7PPrWZKcv_J3SBA-hRXn4VJI1r9NxMvgmKog-topZaM03&tracking_referrer=www.nature.com"><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.nature.com/articles/498031a.epdf?referrer_access_token=ben9To-3oo1NBniBt2zIw9RgN0jAjWel9jnR3ZoTv0Mr0WZkh3ZGwaOU__QIZA8EEsfyjmdvPM68ya-MFh194zghek6jh7WqtGYeYWmES35o2U71x2DQVk0PFLoHQk5V5M-cak670GmcqKy2iZm7PPrWZKcv_J3SBA-hRXn4VJI1r9NxMvgmKog-topZaM03&tracking_referrer=www.nature.com">http://www.nature.com/articles/498031a.epdf?referrer_access_token=ben9To-3oo1NBniBt2zIw9RgN0jAjWel9jnR3ZoTv0Mr0WZkh3ZGwaOU__QIZA8EEsfyjmdvPM68ya-MFh194zghek6jh7WqtGYeYWmES35o2U71x2DQVk0PFLoHQk5V5M-cak670GmcqKy2iZm7PPrWZKcv_J3SBA-hRXn4VJI1r9NxMvgmKog-topZaM03&tracking_referrer=www.nature.com</a></a> is
                                                          worth a look.
                                                          He states that
                                                          due to QM
                                                          effects, the
                                                          size of the
                                                          electron is
                                                          about 2.4 x
                                                          10^-12 m,
                                                          which is
                                                          roughly in the
                                                          range of some
                                                          of our
                                                          electron
                                                          models.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">     
                                                          Richard</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">  </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <blockquote
                                                          style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">On
                                                          Sep 16, 2015,
                                                          at 12:59 PM,
                                                          Wolfgang Baer
                                                          <<a
                                                          moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:wolf@nascentinc.com"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:wolf@nascentinc.com">wolf@nascentinc.com</a></a>> wrote:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif">  </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;background:white">I
                                                          should add you
                                                          sent me
                                                          Main-2014.pdf
                                                          and that may
                                                          be the one not
                                                          available on
                                                          the web sight.</span><br>
                                                          <span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif;background:white">I
                                                          was looking
                                                          for a similar
                                                          one that
                                                          included the
                                                          other topics
                                                          as well.</span><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"><br>
                                                          <span
                                                          style="background:white">If
                                                          you do not
                                                          have it, its
                                                          OK, I just
                                                          like reading
                                                          from paper.</span><br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          <span
                                                          style="background:white">best
                                                          wishes,</span><br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          <span
                                                          style="background:white">Wolf</span></span><br>
                                                          <span
                                                          style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"> 
                                                          </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                                          <pre style="background:white">Dr. Wolfgang Baer<o:p></o:p></pre>
                                                          <pre style="background:white">Research Director<o:p></o:p></pre>
                                                          <pre style="background:white">Nascent Systems Inc.<o:p></o:p></pre>
                                                          <pre style="background:white">tel/fax 831-659-3120/0432<o:p></o:p></pre>
                                                          <pre style="background:white">E-mail <span style="color:purple"><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:wolf@NascentInc.com">wolf@NascentInc.com</a></span><o:p></o:p></pre>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">On
                                                          9/14/2015
                                                          12:45 PM, Dr.
                                                          Albrecht Giese
                                                          wrote:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <blockquote
                                                          style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt;word-spacing:0px">
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">John,<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          You wrote a
                                                          long text, so
                                                          I will enter
                                                          my answers
                                                          within your
                                                          text.</span><br>
                                                          <span
                                                          style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"> 
                                                          </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">Am
                                                          14.09.2015 um
                                                          02:54 schrieb
                                                          John Macken:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <blockquote
                                                          style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Hello David and
                                                          Albrecht,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">It was through the
                                                          contact with
                                                          this group
                                                          that I was
                                                          finally able
                                                          to understand
                                                          the disconnect
                                                          that existed
                                                          between my
                                                          idea of vacuum
                                                          energy and the
                                                          picture that
                                                          others were
                                                          obtaining from
                                                          my use of the
                                                          term
                                                          “energy”.  
                                                          Many of the
                                                          mysteries of
                                                          quantum
                                                          mechanics and
                                                          general
                                                          relativity can
                                                          be traced to
                                                          the fact that
                                                          fields exist
                                                          and yet we do
                                                          not have a
                                                          clear idea of
                                                          what they
                                                          are.  My
                                                          answer is that
                                                          we live within
                                                          a sea of
                                                          vacuum
                                                          activity which
                                                          is the
                                                          physical basis
                                                          of the
                                                          mysterious
                                                          fields. I
                                                          combine all
                                                          fields into a
                                                          single
                                                          “spacetime
                                                          field” which
                                                          is the basis
                                                          of all
                                                          particles,
                                                          fields and
                                                          forces.<span
                                                          class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white"><b><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">David</span></b><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">, you asked about the
                                                          words<span
                                                          class="apple-converted-space"> </span>quantum,
                                                          quantifying
                                                          and
                                                          quantizing. I
                                                          did a word
                                                          search and I
                                                          did not use
                                                          the word
                                                          “quantizing”
                                                          in either the
                                                          email or the
                                                          attachment to
                                                          my last post. 
                                                          However, the
                                                          paper<span
                                                          class="apple-converted-space"> </span><i>Energetic
                                                          Spacetime: The
                                                          New Aether</i><span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span>submitted to SPIE as part of the
                                                          conference
                                                          presentation,
                                                          used and
                                                          defines the
                                                          word
                                                          “quantization”.
                                                          This paper was
                                                          attached to
                                                          previous
                                                          posts, and is
                                                          available at
                                                          my website: <span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span><a moz-do-not-send="true"
                                                          href="http://onlyspacetime.com/"
target="_blank">http://onlyspacetime.com/</a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white"><b><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Albrecht</span></b><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">:  I can combine my
                                                          answer to you
                                                          with the
                                                          clarification
                                                          for David of
                                                          the word
                                                          “quantify” and
                                                          its
                                                          derivatives. 
                                                          I claim that
                                                          my model of
                                                          the universe
                                                          “quantifies”
                                                          particles and
                                                          fields.  I
                                                          will start my
                                                          explanation of
                                                          this concept
                                                          by giving
                                                          examples of
                                                          models which
                                                          do not
                                                          “quantify”
                                                          particles and
                                                          fields.  There
                                                          have been
                                                          numerous
                                                          particle
                                                          models from
                                                          this group and
                                                          others which
                                                          show an
                                                          electron model
                                                          as two balls
                                                          orbiting
                                                          around a
                                                          center of
                                                          mass.  Most of
                                                          the group
                                                          identifies
                                                          these balls as
                                                          photons but
                                                          Albrecht names
                                                          the two balls
                                                          “charges of
                                                          the strong
                                                          force”.  Both
                                                          photons and
                                                          charges of
                                                          strong force
                                                          are just
                                                          words. To be
                                                          quantifiable,
                                                          it is
                                                          necessary to
                                                          describe the
                                                          model of the
                                                          universe which
                                                          gives the
                                                          strong force
                                                          or the
                                                          electromagnetic
                                                          force.  What
                                                          exactly are
                                                          these? How
                                                          much energy
                                                          and energy
                                                          density does
                                                          one charge of
                                                          strong force
                                                          have? Can a
                                                          photon occupy
                                                          a volume
                                                          smaller than a
                                                          reduced
                                                          Compton
                                                          wavelength in
                                                          radius? Does a
                                                          muon have the
                                                          same basic
                                                          strong force
                                                          charge but
                                                          just rotate
                                                          faster? Are
                                                          the charges of
                                                          strong force
                                                          or photons
                                                          made of any
                                                          other more
                                                          basic
                                                          component?</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </blockquote>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white"><br>
                                                          <span
                                                          style="font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">Regarding
                                                          charge: This
                                                          is a basic
                                                          entity in my
                                                          model. At some
                                                          point a
                                                          physical
                                                          theory has to
                                                          start. My
                                                          model starts
                                                          with the
                                                          assumption
                                                          that a charge
                                                          is an "atomic"
                                                          entity, so
                                                          possibly
                                                          point-like,
                                                          which emits
                                                          exchange
                                                          particles (in
                                                          this point I
                                                          follow the
                                                          general
                                                          understanding
                                                          of QM). There
                                                          are two types
                                                          of charges:
                                                          the electric
                                                          ones which we
                                                          are very
                                                          familiar with,
                                                          having two
                                                          signs, and the
                                                          strong ones,
                                                          which are not
                                                          so obvious in
                                                          everyday
                                                          physics; they
                                                          also have two
                                                          signs. In the
                                                          physical
                                                          nature we find
                                                          the charges of
                                                          the strong
                                                          force only in
                                                          configurations
                                                          made of those
                                                          different
                                                          signs, never
                                                          isolated. This
                                                          is in contrast
                                                          to the
                                                          electric
                                                          charges.<span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          The basic
                                                          particles are
                                                          composed of a
                                                          collection of
                                                          charges of the
                                                          strong force
                                                          so that both
                                                          basic
                                                          particles are
                                                          bound to each
                                                          other in a way
                                                          that they keep
                                                          a certain
                                                          distance. This
                                                          distance
                                                          characterizes
                                                          an elementary
                                                          particle. In
                                                          several (or
                                                          most) cases
                                                          there is
                                                          additionally
                                                          an electric
                                                          charge in the
                                                          basic
                                                          particle.<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          The two
                                                          parameters I
                                                          have to set -
                                                          or to find -
                                                          are the shape
                                                          of the strong
                                                          field in the
                                                          elementary
                                                          particle. Here
                                                          I have defined
                                                          an equation
                                                          describing a
                                                          minimum
                                                          multi-pole
                                                          field to make
                                                          the elementary
                                                          particle
                                                          stable. The
                                                          other setting
                                                          is the
                                                          strength of
                                                          this field.
                                                          This strength
                                                          can be found
                                                          e.g. using the
                                                          electron
                                                          because the
                                                          electron is
                                                          well known and
                                                          precisely
                                                          measured. This
                                                          field is then
                                                          applicable for
                                                          all leptons as
                                                          well as for
                                                          all quarks. It
                                                          is also
                                                          applicable for
                                                          the photon
                                                          with the
                                                          restriction
                                                          that there may
                                                          be a
                                                          correction
                                                          factor caused
                                                          by the fact
                                                          that the
                                                          photon is not
                                                          fundamental in
                                                          the sense of
                                                          this model but
                                                          composed of
                                                          (maybe) two
                                                          other
                                                          particles.<span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          The size of
                                                          the photon is
                                                          (at least
                                                          roughly)
                                                          described by
                                                          its
                                                          wavelength.
                                                          This follows
                                                          from the mass
                                                          formula
                                                          resulting from
                                                          my model, as
                                                          with this
                                                          assumption the
                                                          (dynamic) mass
                                                          of the photon
                                                          is the correct
                                                          result.<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          As I wrote,
                                                          the results of
                                                          this model are
                                                          very precise,
                                                          the prove is
                                                          in practice
                                                          only limited
                                                          by limitations
                                                          of the
                                                          measurement
                                                          processes.</span><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">I could go on with
                                                          more questions
                                                          until it is
                                                          possible to
                                                          calculate the
                                                          properties of
                                                          an electron
                                                          from the
                                                          answers.  So
                                                          far both
                                                          models lack
                                                          any
                                                          quantifiable
                                                          details except
                                                          perhaps a
                                                          connection to
                                                          the particle’s
                                                          Compton
                                                          frequency.  I
                                                          am not
                                                          demanding
                                                          anything more
                                                          than I have
                                                          already done. 
                                                          For example, I
                                                          cannot
                                                          calculate the
                                                          electron’s
                                                          Compton
                                                          frequency or
                                                          the fine
                                                          structure
                                                          constant. 
                                                          However, once
                                                          I install
                                                          these into the
                                                          model that I
                                                          create, and
                                                          combine this
                                                          with the
                                                          properties of
                                                          the spacetime
                                                          field, then I
                                                          get an
                                                          electron. 
                                                          Installing a
                                                          muon’s Compton
                                                          frequency
                                                          generates a
                                                          muon with the
                                                          correct
                                                          electric
                                                          field,
                                                          electrostatic
                                                          force,
                                                          curvature of
                                                          spacetime,
                                                          gravitational
                                                          force and de
                                                          Broglie
                                                          waves.  I am
                                                          able to
                                                          quantify the
                                                          distortion of
                                                          spacetime
                                                          produced by a
                                                          charged
                                                          particle, an
                                                          electric field
                                                          and a photon. 
                                                          I am able to
                                                          test these
                                                          models and
                                                          show that they
                                                          generate both
                                                          the correct
                                                          energy density
                                                          and generate a
                                                          black hole
                                                          when we reach
                                                          the distortion
                                                          limits of the
                                                          spacetime
                                                          field.<span
                                                          class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">In
                                                          my model the
                                                          Compton
                                                          frequency of
                                                          the electron
                                                          (and of the
                                                          other leptons)
                                                          follows
                                                          directly from
                                                          the size of
                                                          the particle
                                                          and the fact
                                                          that the basic
                                                          particle move
                                                          with c. The
                                                          fine structure
                                                          constant tells
                                                          us the
                                                          relation of
                                                          the electric
                                                          force to the
                                                          strong force.
                                                          This
                                                          explanation
                                                          follows very
                                                          directly from
                                                          this model,
                                                          however was
                                                          also found by
                                                          other
                                                          theorists
                                                          using algebra
                                                          of particle
                                                          physics.<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          Another result
                                                          of the model
                                                          is that
                                                          Planck's
                                                          constant -
                                                          multiplied by
                                                          c - is the
                                                          field constant
                                                          of the strong
                                                          force. Also
                                                          this is the
                                                          result of
                                                          other models
                                                          (however not
                                                          of mainstream
                                                          physics). </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">My model starts with
                                                          a quantifiable
                                                          description of
                                                          the properties
                                                          of spacetime. 
                                                          The spacetime
                                                          model has a
                                                          specific
                                                          impedance
                                                          which
                                                          describes the
                                                          properties of
                                                          waves that can
                                                          exist in
                                                          spacetime.
                                                          Then the
                                                          amplitude and
                                                          frequency of
                                                          the waves in
                                                          spacetime is
                                                          quantified. 
                                                          This
                                                          combination
                                                          allows the
                                                          energy density
                                                          of spacetime
                                                          to be
                                                          calculated and
                                                          this agrees
                                                          with the
                                                          energy density
                                                          of zero point
                                                          energy. The
                                                          particle
                                                          models are
                                                          then defined
                                                          as ½<span
                                                          class="apple-converted-space"> </span>ħ<span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span>units of quantized angular
                                                          momentum
                                                          existing in
                                                          the spacetime
                                                          field.  This
                                                          model is
                                                          quantifiable
                                                          as to size,
                                                          structure,
                                                          energy, etc. 
                                                          Also the fact
                                                          that the rate
                                                          of time and
                                                          proper volume
                                                          is being
                                                          modulated, it
                                                          is possible to
                                                          calculate the
                                                          effect that
                                                          such a
                                                          structure
                                                          would have on
                                                          the
                                                          surrounding
                                                          volume of
                                                          spacetime.  It
                                                          is possible to
                                                          calculate the
                                                          effect if the
                                                          spacetime-based
                                                          particle model
                                                          would have if
                                                          the coupling
                                                          constant was
                                                          equal to 1
                                                          (Planck
                                                          charge), To
                                                          get charge<span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span><i>e</i>, it is necessary to
                                                          manually
                                                          install the
                                                          fine structure
                                                          constant. <span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">How
                                                          do you get the
                                                          value<span
                                                          class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span
style="font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">½<span
                                                          class="apple-converted-space"> </span>ħ</span><span
class="apple-converted-space"><span
                                                          style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"> </span></span><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">for
                                                          the angular
                                                          momentum? What
                                                          is the
                                                          calculation
                                                          behind it? - I
                                                          understand
                                                          that in your
                                                          model the
                                                          electric
                                                          charge is a
                                                          parameter
                                                          deduced from
                                                          other facts.
                                                          Which ones?
                                                          From alpha?
                                                          How do you
                                                          then get
                                                          alpha?<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          I personally
                                                          have in so far
                                                          a problem with
                                                          all
                                                          considerations
                                                          using
                                                          spacetime as I
                                                          have quite
                                                          thoroughly
                                                          investigated
                                                          how Einstein
                                                          came to the
                                                          idea of this
                                                          4-dimentional
                                                          construct. His
                                                          main
                                                          motivation was
                                                          that he wanted
                                                          in any case to
                                                          avoid an
                                                          ether. And in
                                                          his
                                                          discussions
                                                          with Ernst
                                                          Mach he had to
                                                          realize that
                                                          he was running
                                                          into a lot of
                                                          problems with
                                                          this
                                                          assumption. He
                                                          could solve
                                                          these problems
                                                          in general by
                                                          his "curved
                                                          spacetime".
                                                          But this
                                                          concept still
                                                          causes logical
                                                          conflicts
                                                          which are
                                                          eagerly
                                                          neglected by
                                                          the followers
                                                          of Einstein's
                                                          relativity
                                                          (and which do
                                                          not exist in
                                                          the Lorentzian
                                                          way of
                                                          relativity). </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">The quantifiable
                                                          properties of
                                                          spacetime
                                                          imply that
                                                          there should
                                                          be boundary
                                                          conditions
                                                          which imply
                                                          that the waves
                                                          in spacetime
                                                          should be
                                                          nonlinear. 
                                                          When the
                                                          nonlinear
                                                          component is
                                                          calculated and
                                                          treated as
                                                          separate
                                                          waves, the
                                                          characteristics
                                                          of the
                                                          particle’s
                                                          gravitational
                                                          field are
                                                          obtained
                                                          (correct:
                                                           curvature,
                                                          effect on the
                                                          rate of time,
                                                          force and
                                                          energy
                                                          density).</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">In my last post I
                                                          have given an
                                                          answer about
                                                          the factor of
                                                          10<sup>120</sup><span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span>difference between the observable
                                                          energy density
                                                          of the
                                                          universe and
                                                          the
                                                          non-observable
                                                          energy of the
                                                          universe. 
                                                          This
                                                          non-observable
                                                          energy density
                                                          is absolutely
                                                          necessary for
                                                          QED
                                                          calculations,
                                                          zero point
                                                          energy, the
                                                          uncertainty
                                                          principle,
                                                          Lamb shift,
                                                          spontaneous
                                                          emission and
                                                          quantum
                                                          mechanics in
                                                          general. This
                                                          non-observable
                                                          energy density
                                                          is responsible
                                                          for the
                                                          tremendously
                                                          large
                                                          impedance of
                                                          spacetime c<sup>3</sup>/G.
                                                          Since I can
                                                          also show how
                                                          this
                                                          non-observable
                                                          energy density
                                                          is obtainable
                                                          from
                                                          gravitational
                                                          wave
                                                          equations, it
                                                          is necessary
                                                          for<span
                                                          class="apple-converted-space"> </span><b>you</b><span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span>to show how all these effects can
                                                          be achieved
                                                          without
                                                          spacetime
                                                          being a single
                                                          field with
                                                          this
                                                          non-observable
                                                          energy
                                                          density.  In
                                                          fact, the name
                                                          non-observable
                                                          only applied
                                                          to direct
                                                          observation.
                                                          The indirect
                                                          evidence is
                                                          everywhere. 
                                                          It forms the
                                                          basis of the
                                                          universe and
                                                          therefore is
                                                          the
                                                          “background
                                                          noise” of the
                                                          universe.  For
                                                          this reason it
                                                          is not
                                                          directly
                                                          observable
                                                          because we can
                                                          only detect
                                                          differences in
                                                          energy.  The
                                                          constants<span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span><i>c,</i><span
                                                          class="apple-converted-space"> </span><i>G</i>,<span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span><i>ħ</i><span
                                                          class="apple-converted-space"> </span>and<span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span><i>ε<sub>o</sub></i><span
                                                          class="apple-converted-space"> </span>testify
                                                          that spacetime
                                                          is not an
                                                          empty void. <span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">Up
                                                          to now I did
                                                          not find any
                                                          necessity for
                                                          zero-point
                                                          energy. And I
                                                          find it a
                                                          dangerous way
                                                          to assume
                                                          physical facts
                                                          which cannot
                                                          be observed.
                                                          The greatest
                                                          argument in
                                                          favour of this
                                                          energy is its
                                                          use in Feynman
                                                          diagrams. But
                                                          is there
                                                          really no
                                                          other way? I
                                                          have a lecture
                                                          of Feynman
                                                          here where he
                                                          states that
                                                          his formalism
                                                          has good
                                                          results. But
                                                          that he has no
                                                          physical
                                                          understanding
                                                          why it is
                                                          successful. In
                                                          my
                                                          understanding
                                                          of the
                                                          development of
                                                          physics this
                                                          is a weak
                                                          point.<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          The
                                                          discrepancy of
                                                          10^120 between
                                                          assumed and
                                                          observed
                                                          energy is
                                                          taken as a
                                                          great and
                                                          unresolved
                                                          problem by
                                                          present main
                                                          stream
                                                          physics. Those
                                                          representatives
                                                          would have all
                                                          reason to find
                                                          a solution to
                                                          keep present
                                                          QM clean. But
                                                          they are not
                                                          able to. This
                                                          causes me some
                                                          concern.<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          The constants
                                                          you have
                                                          listed: c is
                                                          the speed of
                                                          light what
                                                          ever the
                                                          reason for it
                                                          is. (I have a
                                                          model, but it
                                                          is a bit
                                                          speculative.)
                                                          But it has
                                                          nothing to do
                                                          with energy. G
                                                          is the
                                                          gravitational
                                                          constant which
                                                          is as little
                                                          understood as
                                                          gravity
                                                          itself.
                                                          Planck's
                                                          constant I
                                                          have
                                                          explained, it
                                                          is (with c)
                                                          the field
                                                          constant of
                                                          the strong
                                                          force (any
                                                          force has to
                                                          be described
                                                          by a field
                                                          constant); and<span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><i><span
                                                          style="font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">ε<sub>o</sub></span></i><span
class="apple-converted-space"><span
                                                          style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"> </span></span><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">is
                                                          the field
                                                          constant of
                                                          the electric
                                                          force with a
                                                          similar
                                                          background. </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">If spacetime was an
                                                          empty void,
                                                          why should
                                                          particles have
                                                          a speed limit
                                                          of<span
                                                          class="apple-converted-space"> </span><i>c</i>?
                                                          For a thought
                                                          experiment,
                                                          suppose that
                                                          two spaceships
                                                          leave earth
                                                          going opposite
                                                          directions and
                                                          accelerate
                                                          until they
                                                          reach a speed
                                                          of 0.75<span
                                                          class="apple-converted-space"> </span><i>c</i><span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span>relative to the earth.  The earth
                                                          bound observer
                                                          sees them
                                                          separating at
                                                          1.5<span
                                                          class="apple-converted-space"> </span><i>c</i><span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span>but the rules of relativistic
                                                          addition of
                                                          velocity has a
                                                          spaceship
                                                          observer
                                                          seeing the
                                                          other
                                                          spaceship
                                                          moving away at
                                                          only 0.96<span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span><i>c</i>.  How is this possible if
                                                          spacetime is
                                                          an empty
                                                          void.  My
                                                          model of the
                                                          universe
                                                          answers this
                                                          because all
                                                          particles,
                                                          fields and
                                                          forces are
                                                          also made of
                                                          the spacetime
                                                          field and they
                                                          combine to
                                                          achieve
                                                          Lorentz
                                                          transformations
                                                          which affects
                                                          ruler length
                                                          and clocks. 
                                                          None of this
                                                          can happen
                                                          unless
                                                          spacetime is
                                                          filled with
                                                          dipole waves
                                                          in spacetime
                                                          and everything
                                                          is made of the
                                                          single
                                                          component. 
                                                          The universe
                                                          is only
                                                          spacetime.<span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">If
                                                          two spaceships
                                                          move at 0.75 c
                                                          in opposite
                                                          direction, the
                                                          observer at
                                                          rest may add
                                                          these speeds
                                                          and may get
                                                          1.5 c as a
                                                          result. Why
                                                          not? If an
                                                          observer in
                                                          one of the
                                                          spaceships
                                                          measures the
                                                          relative speed
                                                          of the other
                                                          spaceship, the
                                                          result will be
                                                          less then c
                                                          (as you write
                                                          it). The
                                                          reason is the
                                                          well known
                                                          fact that the
                                                          measurement
                                                          tools
                                                          accessible for
                                                          the observer
                                                          in the ship
                                                          are changed
                                                          and run
                                                          differently at
                                                          this high
                                                          speed. The
                                                          reason for
                                                          these changes
                                                          is for time
                                                          dilation the
                                                          internal speed
                                                          c in
                                                          elementary
                                                          particles. For
                                                          contraction it
                                                          is the
                                                          contraction of
                                                          fields at
                                                          motion which
                                                          is a fact
                                                          independent of
                                                          relativity
                                                          (and which was
                                                          already known
                                                          before
                                                          Einstein). In
                                                          addition when
                                                          the speed of
                                                          another object
                                                          is to be
                                                          measured
                                                          several clocks
                                                          are to be used
                                                          positioned
                                                          along the
                                                          measurement
                                                          section. These
                                                          clocks are
                                                          de-synchronized
                                                          in relation to
                                                          the clocks of
                                                          the observer
                                                          at rest. These
                                                          phenomena
                                                          together cause
                                                          the
                                                          measurement
                                                          result < c.
                                                          You find these
                                                          considerations
                                                          in papers and
                                                          books about
                                                          the Lorentzian
                                                          interpretation
                                                          of relativity.
                                                          So, following
                                                          Lorentz, there
                                                          is no reason
                                                          to assume
                                                          Einstein's
                                                          spacetime.</span><span
class="apple-converted-space"><span
                                                          style="font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"> </span></span><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">John M.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">Perhaps
                                                          I should read
                                                          your book. But
                                                          that chould
                                                          take a lot of
                                                          time, I am
                                                          afraid.<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          Albrecht </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <div
                                                          style="border:none;border-top:solid
                                                          #E1E1E1
                                                          1.0pt;padding:3.0pt
                                                          0cm 0cm 0cm">
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span
class="apple-converted-space"><span
                                                          style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span></span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Dr.
                                                          Albrecht Giese
                                                          [<a
                                                          moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:genmail@a-giese.de"><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:genmail@a-giese.de">mailto:genmail@a-giese.de</a></a>]<span
                                                          class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
                                                          <b>Sent:</b><span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Sunday, September 13, 2015 1:43 PM<br>
                                                          <b>To:</b><span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span>John Macken<span
                                                          class="apple-converted-space"> </span><a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:john@macken.com"><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:john@macken.com"><john@macken.com></a></a>;
                                                          'Nature of
                                                          Light and
                                                          Particles -
                                                          General
                                                          Discussion'<span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                                                          href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org">general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>><br>
                                                          <b>Subject:</b><span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [General] research papers</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Hello
                                                          John,<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          great that you
                                                          have looked so
                                                          deeply into
                                                          the model
                                                          which I have
                                                          presented.
                                                          Thank you.<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          There are some
                                                          questions
                                                          which I can
                                                          answer quite
                                                          easily. I
                                                          think that
                                                          this model in
                                                          fact explains
                                                          several points
                                                          just in
                                                          contrast to
                                                          main stream
                                                          physics. In
                                                          standard
                                                          physics the
                                                          electron (just
                                                          as an example)
                                                          is a
                                                          point-like
                                                          object without
                                                          any internal
                                                          structure. So,
                                                          how can a
                                                          magnetic
                                                          moment be
                                                          explained? How
                                                          can the spin
                                                          be explained?
                                                          How can the
                                                          mass be
                                                          explained? The
                                                          position of
                                                          main stream
                                                          physics is:
                                                          That cannot be
                                                          explained but
                                                          is subject to
                                                          quantum
                                                          mechanics. And
                                                          the fact that
                                                          it cannot be
                                                          explained
                                                          shows how
                                                          necessary QM
                                                          is.<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          In contrast,
                                                          if the
                                                          electron is
                                                          assumed to
                                                          have a
                                                          structure like
                                                          in the model
                                                          presented,
                                                          these
                                                          parameters can
                                                          be explained
                                                          in a classical
                                                          way, and this
                                                          explanation is
                                                          not merely a
                                                          qualitative
                                                          one but has
                                                          precise
                                                          quantitative
                                                          results.<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          To  your
                                                          questions in
                                                          detail:<br>
                                                          The fact of
                                                          two basic
                                                          particles is
                                                          necessary to
                                                          explain the
                                                          fact of an
                                                          oscillation
                                                          and to fulfil
                                                          the
                                                          conservation
                                                          of momentum. A
                                                          single object
                                                          (as
                                                          point-like)
                                                          cannot
                                                          oscillate. The
                                                          basic
                                                          particles are
                                                          composed of
                                                          charges of the
                                                          strong force.
                                                          In this model
                                                          the strong
                                                          force is
                                                          assumed to be
                                                          the universal
                                                          force in our
                                                          world
                                                          effective on
                                                          all particles.
                                                          A charge is a
                                                          fundamental
                                                          object in the
                                                          scope of this
                                                          model. There
                                                          are two kinds
                                                          of charges
                                                          according to
                                                          the two kinds
                                                          of forces in
                                                          our world, the
                                                          strong one and
                                                          the electric
                                                          one. The weak
                                                          force is in
                                                          fact the
                                                          strong force
                                                          but has a
                                                          smaller
                                                          coupling
                                                          constant
                                                          caused by
                                                          geometric
                                                          circumstances.
                                                          And gravity is
                                                          not a force at
                                                          all but a
                                                          refraction
                                                          process, which
                                                          is so a side
                                                          effect of the
                                                          other forces.
                                                          And, by the
                                                          way, gravity
                                                          is not curved
                                                          spacetime.
                                                          This is not
                                                          necessary, and
                                                          besides of
                                                          this,
                                                          Einstein's
                                                          spacetime
                                                          leads to
                                                          logical
                                                          conflicts.<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          The forces
                                                          (i.e. strong
                                                          force) inside
                                                          an elementary
                                                          particle are
                                                          configured in
                                                          a way that at
                                                          a certain
                                                          distance there
                                                          is a potential
                                                          minimum and in
                                                          this way the
                                                          distance
                                                          between the
                                                          basic
                                                          particles is
                                                          enforced. So,
                                                          this field has
                                                          attracting and
                                                          repulsive
                                                          components.
                                                          Outside the
                                                          elementary
                                                          particle the
                                                          attracting
                                                          forces
                                                          dominate to
                                                          make the
                                                          particle a
                                                          stable one.
                                                          And those
                                                          field parts
                                                          outside have
                                                          an opposite
                                                          sign. Now, as
                                                          the basic
                                                          particles are
                                                          orbiting each
                                                          other, the
                                                          outside field
                                                          is an
                                                          alternating
                                                          field (of the
                                                          strong forth).
                                                          If this field
                                                          propagates, it
                                                          is builds a
                                                          wave. This
                                                          wave is
                                                          described by
                                                          the
                                                          Schrödinger
                                                          equation and
                                                          fulfils the
                                                          assumptions of
                                                          de Broglie.<span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          With the
                                                          assumption of
                                                          two basic
                                                          particles
                                                          orbiting at c
                                                          and subject to
                                                          strong force,
                                                          the parameters
                                                          mass, magnetic
                                                          moment, spin
                                                          result from it
                                                          numerically
                                                          correctly
                                                          without
                                                          further
                                                          assumptions.<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          This model
                                                          does not need
                                                          any vacuum
                                                          energy or
                                                          virtual
                                                          particles.
                                                          Those are
                                                          simply not
                                                          necessary and
                                                          they are
                                                          anyway very
                                                          speculative
                                                          because not
                                                          directly
                                                          observable.
                                                          And in the
                                                          case of the
                                                          vacuum energy
                                                          of the
                                                          universe we
                                                          are confronted
                                                          with the
                                                          discrepancy of
                                                          10^120 which
                                                          you also
                                                          mention in
                                                          your paper
                                                          attached to
                                                          your mail.<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          The Coulomb
                                                          law can be
                                                          easily
                                                          explained by
                                                          the assumption
                                                          (standard at
                                                          quantum
                                                          mechanics)
                                                          that a force
                                                          is realized by
                                                          exchange
                                                          particles. The
                                                          density of
                                                          exchange
                                                          particles and
                                                          so the
                                                          strength of
                                                          the field
                                                          diminishes by
                                                          1/r^2, which
                                                          is simple
                                                          geometry.<span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          So John, this
                                                          is my
                                                          position. Now
                                                          I am curious
                                                          about your
                                                          objections of
                                                          further
                                                          questions.<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          Best regards<br>
                                                          Albrecht<br>
                                                           </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Am
                                                          11.09.2015 um
                                                          23:51 schrieb
                                                          John Macken:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <blockquote
                                                          style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Hello Albrecht and
                                                          All,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">I have attached a one
                                                          page addition
                                                          that I will
                                                          make to my
                                                          book. It is a
                                                          preliminary
                                                          explanation of
                                                          my model of
                                                          the spacetime
                                                          field.  It has
                                                          been very
                                                          helpful to me
                                                          to interact
                                                          with this
                                                          group because
                                                          I now
                                                          understand
                                                          better the key
                                                          stumbling
                                                          block for some
                                                          scientists to
                                                          accept my
                                                          thesis. 
                                                          Therefore I
                                                          have written
                                                          the attached
                                                          introduction
                                                          to ease the
                                                          reader of my
                                                          book into my
                                                          model. <span
                                                          class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white"><b><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Albrecht:</span></b><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> <span
                                                          class="apple-converted-space"> </span>I
                                                          appreciate
                                                          your email. 
                                                          We agree on
                                                          several points
                                                          which include
                                                          the size of
                                                          the electron
                                                          and there is a
                                                          similarity in
                                                          the
                                                          explanation of
                                                          gravity.  The
                                                          key points of
                                                          disagreement
                                                          are the same
                                                          as I have with
                                                          the rest of
                                                          the group. 
                                                          Your
                                                          explanation of
                                                          a fundamental
                                                          particle is
                                                          not really an
                                                          explanation. 
                                                          You substitute
                                                          a fundamental
                                                          particle such
                                                          as an electron
                                                          with two
                                                          “basic
                                                          particles”. 
                                                          Have we made
                                                          any progress
                                                          or did we just
                                                          double the
                                                          problem?  What
                                                          is your basic
                                                          particles made
                                                          of?  What is
                                                          the physics
                                                          behind the
                                                          force of
                                                          attraction
                                                          between the
                                                          particles?
                                                          What is the
                                                          physics behind
                                                          an electric
                                                          field? How
                                                          does your
                                                          model create
                                                          de Broglie
                                                          waves? How
                                                          does your
                                                          model create a
                                                          gravitational
                                                          field (curved
                                                          spacetime)? 
                                                          Can you derive
                                                          the Coulomb
                                                          law and
                                                          Newtonian
                                                          gravitational
                                                          equation from
                                                          your model? <span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">These might seem like
                                                          unfair
                                                          questions, but
                                                          my model does
                                                          all of these
                                                          things. All it
                                                          requires is
                                                          the reader
                                                          accept the
                                                          fact that the
                                                          vacuum
                                                          possesses
                                                          activity which
                                                          can be
                                                          characterized
                                                          as a type of
                                                          energy density
                                                          that is not
                                                          observable (no
                                                          rest mass or
                                                          momentum). 
                                                          This is no
                                                          different that
                                                          accepting that
                                                          QED
                                                          calculations
                                                          should be
                                                          believed when
                                                          they assume
                                                          vacuum energy
                                                          or that zero
                                                          point energy
                                                          really
                                                          exists. <span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white"><b><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Albrecht</span></b><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">, perhaps I have come
                                                          on too strong,
                                                          but I have
                                                          decided to
                                                          take a firmer
                                                          stand.  You
                                                          just happen to
                                                          be the first
                                                          person that I
                                                          contrast to my
                                                          model.  I am
                                                          actually happy
                                                          to discuss the
                                                          scientific
                                                          details in a
                                                          less
                                                          confrontational
                                                          way.  I just
                                                          wanted to make
                                                          an initial
                                                          point.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">John M.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <div
                                                          style="border:none;border-top:solid
                                                          #E1E1E1
                                                          1.0pt;padding:3.0pt
                                                          0cm 0cm 0cm">
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span
class="apple-converted-space"><span
                                                          style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span></span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">General
                                                          [</span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:purple"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:general-bounces+john=macken.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:general-bounces+john=macken.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org">mailto:general-bounces+john=macken.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a></a></span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">]<span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span><b>On Behalf Of<span
                                                          class="apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Dr.
                                                          Albrecht Giese<br>
                                                          <b>Sent:</b><span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Friday, September 11, 2015 9:52 AM<br>
                                                          <b>To:</b><span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span><a moz-do-not-send="true"
                                                          href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org">general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a><br>
                                                          <b>Subject:</b><span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [General] research papers</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Dear
                                                          John Macken,<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          I would like
                                                          to answer a
                                                          specific topic
                                                          in your mail
                                                          below. You
                                                          write "...
                                                          would have
                                                          particular
                                                          relevance to
                                                          the concept
                                                          that the Higgs
                                                          field is
                                                          needed to give
                                                          inertia to
                                                          fermions".<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          We should not
                                                          overlook that
                                                          even
                                                          mainstream
                                                          physicists
                                                          working on
                                                          elementary
                                                          particles
                                                          admit that the
                                                          Higgs theory
                                                          is not able to
                                                          explain
                                                          inertia.  I
                                                          give you as a
                                                          reference:<span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:3.0pt;text-align:justify;background:white"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">>Steven
                                                          D. Brass, The
                                                          cosmological
                                                          constant
                                                          puzzle,
                                                          Journal of
                                                          Physics G,
                                                          Nuclear and
                                                          Particle
                                                          Physics 38,
                                                          4(2011)
                                                          43201< ,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">which has the result
                                                          that the Higgs
                                                          field, which
                                                          causes inertia
                                                          according to
                                                          the theory, is
                                                          by at least 56
                                                          orders of
                                                          magnitude too
                                                          small to
                                                          explain the
                                                          mass of the
                                                          elementary
                                                          particles.
                                                          (Another
                                                          weakness is
                                                          the fact that
                                                          the Higgs
                                                          theory does
                                                          not tell us
                                                          the mass of
                                                          any elementary
                                                          particle even
                                                          if all other
                                                          parameters are
                                                          known.)<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          As you may
                                                          remember, in
                                                          our meeting I
                                                          have presented
                                                          a model
                                                          explaining
                                                          inertia which
                                                          does not only
                                                          work as a
                                                          general idea
                                                          but provides
                                                          very precise
                                                          results for
                                                          the mass of
                                                          leptons. The
                                                          mass is
                                                          classically
                                                          deduced from
                                                          the size of a
                                                          particle.  It
                                                          also explains
                                                          the mass of
                                                          quarks, but
                                                          here the
                                                          verification
                                                          is more
                                                          difficult, due
                                                          to the lack of
                                                          measurements.
                                                          In addition I
                                                          have shown
                                                          that the model
                                                          also explains
                                                          the (dynamic)
                                                          mass of
                                                          photons, if
                                                          the size of a
                                                          photon is
                                                          related to its
                                                          wavelength.<span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span><br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          You may find
                                                          details in the
                                                          proceedings of
                                                          our San Diego
                                                          meeting, but
                                                          also on the
                                                          following web
                                                          sites:<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          </span><span
                                                          style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:purple"><a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.ag-physics.org/rmass"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.ag-physics.org/rmass">www.ag-physics.org/rmass</a></a></span><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"><br>
                                                          </span><span
                                                          style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:purple"><a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://www.ag-physics.org/electron"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.ag-physics.org/electron">www.ag-physics.org/electron</a></a></span><span
class="apple-converted-space"><span
                                                          style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span></span><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">.<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          You may also
                                                          find the sites
                                                          by Google
                                                          search
                                                          entering the
                                                          string "origin
                                                          of mass". You
                                                          will find it
                                                          on position 1
                                                          or 2 of the
                                                          list, where it
                                                          has constantly
                                                          been during
                                                          the past 12
                                                          years.<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          If you have
                                                          any questions
                                                          about it,
                                                          please ask me.
                                                          I will be
                                                          happy about
                                                          any
                                                          discussion.<br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          With best
                                                          regards<br>
                                                          Albrecht Giese</span><br>
                                                          <br>
                                                          <span
                                                          style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Am 04.09.2015 um
                                                          18:40 schrieb
                                                          John Macken:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <blockquote
                                                          style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Martin,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">I wanted to remind
                                                          you that I
                                                          think that you
                                                          should update
                                                          your article
                                                          “Light Is
                                                          Heavy” to
                                                          include the
                                                          mathematical
                                                          proof that
                                                          confined light
                                                          has exactly
                                                          the same
                                                          inertia as
                                                          particles with
                                                          equal energy. 
                                                          Accelerating a
                                                          reflecting box
                                                          causes
                                                          different
                                                          photon
                                                          pressure which
                                                          results in a
                                                          net inertial
                                                          force.  I
                                                          already
                                                          reference your
                                                          Light Is Heavy
                                                          article in my
                                                          book, but
                                                          expanding the
                                                          article would
                                                          be even
                                                          better.  An
                                                          expanded
                                                          article would
                                                          have
                                                          particular
                                                          relevance to
                                                          the concept
                                                          that the Higgs
                                                          field is
                                                          needed to give
                                                          inertia to
                                                          fermions. The
                                                          Higgs field is
                                                          not needed to
                                                          give inertia
                                                          to confined
                                                          light. 
                                                          Furthermore,
                                                          confined light
                                                          exerts exactly
                                                          the correct
                                                          inertia and
                                                          kinetic
                                                          energy, even
                                                          at
                                                          relativistic
                                                          conditions.  I
                                                          have not seen
                                                          a proof that
                                                          the Higgs
                                                          field gives
                                                          exactly the
                                                          correct amount
                                                          of inertia or
                                                          kinetic energy
                                                          to fermions. 
                                                          Any particle
                                                          model that
                                                          includes
                                                          either a
                                                          confined
                                                          photon or
                                                          confined waves
                                                          in spacetime
                                                          propagating at
                                                          the speed of
                                                          light gets
                                                          inertia and
                                                          kinetic energy
                                                          from the same
                                                          principles as
                                                          confined light
                                                          in a
                                                          reflecting
                                                          box.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">John M.<span
                                                          class="apple-converted-space"> </span></span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <div
                                                          style="border:none;border-top:solid
                                                          #E1E1E1
                                                          1.0pt;padding:3.0pt
                                                          0cm 0cm 0cm">
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span
class="apple-converted-space"><span
                                                          style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span></span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">General
                                                          [</span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:purple"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:general-bounces+john=macken.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:general-bounces+john=macken.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org">mailto:general-bounces+john=macken.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a></a></span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">]<span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span><b>On Behalf Of<span
                                                          class="apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Mark,
                                                          Martin van der<br>
                                                          <b>Sent:</b><span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Friday, September 04, 2015 6:34 AM<br>
                                                          <b>To:</b><span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Nature of Light and Particles -
                                                          General
                                                          Discussion<span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span><<a moz-do-not-send="true"
                                                          href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org">general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>><br>
                                                          <b>Subject:</b><span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span>[General] research papers</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:10.0pt;background:white"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Dear
                                                          all,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:10.0pt;background:white"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">My
                                                          recent (and
                                                          old) work can
                                                          be found on
                                                          Researchgate:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:10.0pt;background:white"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Martin_Van_der_Mark/publications"
target="_blank"><span style="color:purple"><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Martin_Van_der_Mark/publications">https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Martin_Van_der_Mark/publications</a></span></a></span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:10.0pt;background:white"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">In
                                                          particular you
                                                          will find the
                                                          most recent
                                                          work:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                                          <ul
                                                          type="disc">
                                                          <li
                                                          class="MsoNormal"
                                                          style="color:#1F497D;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:10.0pt;mso-list:l0
                                                          level1
                                                          lfo1;background:white"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">On
                                                          the nature of
                                                          “stuff” and
                                                          the hierarchy
                                                          of forces</span><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></li>
                                                          <li
                                                          class="MsoNormal"
                                                          style="color:#1F497D;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:10.0pt;mso-list:l0
                                                          level1
                                                          lfo1;background:white"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif">Quantum
                                                          mechanical
                                                          probability
                                                          current as
                                                          electromagnetic
                                                          4-current from
                                                          topological EM
                                                          fields</span><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Verdana",sans-serif"><o:p></o:p></span></li>
                                                          </ul>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:10.0pt;background:white"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Very
                                                          best regards,</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:10.0pt;background:white"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Martin</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:navy">Dr.
                                                          Martin B. van
                                                          der Mark</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:navy">Principal
                                                          Scientist,
                                                          Minimally
                                                          Invasive
                                                          Healthcare</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:navy"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:navy">Philips
                                                          Research
                                                          Europe -
                                                          Eindhoven</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:navy">High
                                                          Tech Campus,
                                                          Building 34
                                                          (WB2.025)</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:navy">Prof.
                                                          Holstlaan 4</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:navy">5656
                                                          AE  Eindhoven,
                                                          The
                                                          Netherlands</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial",sans-serif;color:navy">Tel:
                                                          +31 40 2747548</span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div>
                                                          <p
                                                          class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;background:white"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
                                                          </div>
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