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Has anyone ever measured the gravitational weight of light in a
bottle?<br>
Does a hot hollow ball weigh more than a cold one?<br>
<br>
WOlf<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Dr. Wolfgang Baer
Research Director
Nascent Systems Inc.
tel/fax 831-659-3120/0432
E-mail <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:wolf@NascentInc.com">wolf@NascentInc.com</a></pre>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 10/8/2015 3:51 PM, Adam K wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:CADkFtQU8HVGL9NT+iL5J1cM=pVStkMz35z=qjp2EFRb5XeAZZA@mail.gmail.com"
type="cite">
<div dir="ltr">Hi Martin,
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Yes, general relativity. That link references the book I
keep quoting in this discussion list, which is all about
general relativity. Schrodinger introduces the basic idea and
its consequences very lucidly. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>The origin of mass was always the sticking point of this
theory, and was where Einstein focused his efforts for many
decades. He called the representation of mass in the theory an
<i>asylum ignorantiae</i>. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Adam</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div> </div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Oct 8, 2015 at 3:05 PM, Mark,
Martin van der <span dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:martin.van.der.mark@philips.com"
target="_blank"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:martin.van.der.mark@philips.com">martin.van.der.mark@philips.com</a></a>></span>
wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="auto">
<div>Dear Adam K,</div>
<div>Thank you for the quote, and isn't it a puzzling
one? "The deflection is due to gravitation AND mass!!"
Well that is one mass too many, in my opinion, but i
think this should be interpreted as if not just
Newtonion gravitation is working but, instead, general
relativity (which includes corrections to the former).</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>John D, i have not recently responded to your
comments, but thank you very much indeed for the
useful explanations combined with your great sense of
humor! The helicopter one with not finding the hard
bits actually made it physically impossible for me to
hit the small keys on my phone for a while.</div>
<div>Cheers!</div>
<div>Very best regards, Martin<br>
<br>
Verstuurd vanaf mijn iPhone</div>
<div><br>
Op 8 okt. 2015 om 23:23 heeft "<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:davidmathes8@yahoo.com" target="_blank"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:davidmathes8@yahoo.com">davidmathes8@yahoo.com</a></a>"
<<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:davidmathes8@yahoo.com" target="_blank">davidmathes8@yahoo.com</a>>
het volgende geschreven:<br>
<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<div
style="color:#000;background-color:#fff;font-family:HelveticaNeue,Helvetica
Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Lucida
Grande,sans-serif;font-size:16px">
<div>Adam</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">For the light rays near the sun,
wouldn't one need not just E & M fields. To
identify the gravitational component,one would
have to rigorous eliminate effects from the weak
and strong forces as well. </div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">Also, there may be some value in
considering Dirac's symmetric version of the
Maxwell equations. In doing so, magnetism should
be considered as a separate force, a fifth force
if you will.</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">David</div>
<div dir="ltr"><br>
</div>
<blockquote style="border-left:2px solid
rgb(16,16,255);margin-left:5px;margin-top:5px;padding-left:5px">
<div style="font-family:HelveticaNeue,Helvetica
Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Lucida
Grande,sans-serif;font-size:16px">
<div
style="font-family:HelveticaNeue,Helvetica
Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Lucida
Grande,sans-serif;font-size:16px">
<div dir="ltr">
<hr size="1">
<font size="2" face="Arial"><b><span
style="font-weight:bold">From:</span></b>
Adam K <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:afokay@gmail.com"
target="_blank">afokay@gmail.com</a>><br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">To:</span></b>
Nature of Light and Particles - General
Discussion <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"
target="_blank">general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>>
<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Sent:</span></b>
Thursday, October 8, 2015 12:41 PM<span><br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Subject:</span></b>
Re: [General] relativistic mass<br>
</span></font></div>
<div><br>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div dir="ltr">With the danger of
producing the impression that I
have only read one book, Martin
I thought you would enjoy this
quote:
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
<div><i>The deflection of light
rays that pass near the sun
is not a purely
gravitational phenomenon, it
is due to the fact that an
electromagnetic field
possesses energy and
momentum, hence also mass.</i><br
clear="none">
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
<div>From page 1, here: <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
rel="nofollow"
shape="rect"
href="http://strangebeautiful.com/other-texts/schrodinger-st-struc.pdf"
target="_blank"><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://strangebeautiful.com/other-texts/schrodinger-st-struc.pdf">http://strangebeautiful.com/other-texts/schrodinger-st-struc.pdf</a></a>
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
<div>Adam</div>
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div><br clear="none">
<div>On Thu, Oct 8, 2015 at
12:33 PM, Mark, Martin van der
<span dir="ltr"><<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
rel="nofollow"
shape="rect"
href="mailto:martin.van.der.mark@philips.com"
target="_blank"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:martin.van.der.mark@philips.com">martin.van.der.mark@philips.com</a></a>></span>
wrote:<br clear="none">
<blockquote style="margin:0 0
0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
solid;padding-left:1ex">
Dear Andrew,<br clear="none">
The paper "light is heavy"
is no more, and no less,
than a supposedly didactic
and the only consistent
explanation of special
relativity and its
consequences. Most important
points are that there are
some confusions:<br
clear="none">
1) mass is not matter<br
clear="none">
2) energy is equivalent,
exactly the same as, mass:
E=mc^2<br clear="none">
3) light is massive, both in
the inertial and
gravitational sense, as is
obvious from experiment<br
clear="none">
4) the greatest confusion is
about light being massless,
which indeed it would be if
it couldn't/didn't move. The
whole point is that light is
always moving at the speed
of light, so it is a
non-existing limit.<br
clear="none">
<br clear="none">
Weighing a box with a
molecular gas, or that of a
"photon" gas give the same
kind of result: the
gravitational mass of the
gas plus the weight of the
box. Light is
gravitationally deflected by
large masses,
experimentally. Light
carries momentum and energy.<br
clear="none">
<br clear="none">
There is nothing new in what
i say, it is consistent with
Einsteinian relativity an
represents the vision of
Herman weyl too, and many
others<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
Best, Martin<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
Verstuurd vanaf mijn iPhone<br
clear="none">
<div>
<div><br clear="none">
> Op 8 okt. 2015 om
19:52 heeft Andrew
Meulenberg <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
rel="nofollow"
shape="rect"
href="mailto:mules333@gmail.com"
target="_blank"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:mules333@gmail.com">mules333@gmail.com</a></a>>
het volgende geschreven:<br
clear="none">
><br clear="none">
> Dear Martin,<br
clear="none">
><br clear="none">
> In your "Light is
Heavy" you state:<br
clear="none">
><br clear="none">
> "In the case of
light, the rest mass is
zero, but the
gravitational mass
equals the inertial
mass, which is identical
to the relativistic
mass."<br clear="none">
><br clear="none">
> Do you have any
reference for my
contention that the
relativistic mass of
particles is bound
EM-radiation?<br
clear="none">
><br clear="none">
> In the case of
electron/positron
annihilation, restmass
is converted to
relativistic mass &
then to radiation.
However, I do not know
of any text or paper
that identifies
relativistic mass as
bound EM-radiation. Your
statement is close to
that.<br clear="none">
><br clear="none">
> Andrew<br
clear="none">
</div>
</div>
>
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