<p dir="ltr">Dear Albrecht,</p>
<p dir="ltr">Can you provide additional insight or references to the application of a refraction calculation to the zitterbewegung? I had been thinking of gravitational lensing as refraction of a wavefront and am curious to learn how it can be applied to zitter to get GR!</p>
<p dir="ltr">Regards,</p>
<p dir="ltr">Michael</p>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Oct 9, 2015 3:56 AM, "Dr. Albrecht Giese" <<a href="mailto:genmail@a-giese.de">genmail@a-giese.de</a>> wrote:<br type="attribution"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
Hi Al, and All,<br>
<br>
the greatest counter-evidence to the position of Ed Dowdy which I
know is the result of Lebach et al.. They have measured the light
deflection at the sun, and the result conforms to the theory (of
Einstein or equivalent ones, see further down) with an accuracy of
10^-4. This excludes in my understanding any influence of a plasma
layer around the sun, because even if there would be plasma having
this influence, there could not be exactly the same result as from
conventional theory by this precision, and plasma could not even
provide this reproducibility. Dowdy normally refers to measurements
of NASA but has never given a reference to such measurements.<br>
<br>
The deflection is, according to Einstein, caused by the curvature of
space-time around the sun. It can also be deduced in an alternative
way. The speed of light is reduced in the vicinity of an object.
This causes classical refraction. An according calculation has the
same analytical(!) result as the approach of Einstein. And it makes
the assumption plausible that the mass of the deflected object does
not influence this deflection/refraction. <br>
<br>
One can go a step further and apply this refraction process to the
internal motion in elementary particles, the "Zitterbewegung". This
immediately results in Newton's law of gravity. And it also
reproduces the results of Einstein's General Relativity. And further
it explains the (weak) equivalence principle, the fact that any
object has the same gravitational acceleration independent of its
mass. (In present main stream physics this equivalence is called a
mystery.) <br>
<br>
The next question in this row: what is the cause of the reduction of
the speed of light. A plausible assumption is that the light like
particles affected here are influence by the exchange particles of
other forces. With this assumption gravity is not the force no. 4
but no force at all. It is simply refraction.<br>
<br>
Albrecht<br>
<br>
<br>
<div>Am 09.10.2015 um 09:40 schrieb
<a href="mailto:af.kracklauer@web.de" target="_blank">af.kracklauer@web.de</a>:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div style="font-family:Verdana;font-size:12.0px">
<div>Gentlemen:</div>
<div> </div>
<div>Is there counterevidence to Ed Dowdy's observation that
there is NO light defection about the Sun for rays not passing
through the corona where they must be diverted as plasma
waves?</div>
<div>
<div name="quote" style="margin:10px 5px 5px 10px;padding:10px 0 10px 10px;border-left:2px solid #c3d9e5;word-wrap:break-word">
<div style="margin:0 0 10px 0"><b>Gesendet:</b> Freitag,
09. Oktober 2015 um 06:24 Uhr<br>
<b>Von:</b> "Wolfgang Baer" <a href="mailto:wolf@nascentinc.com" target="_blank"><wolf@nascentinc.com></a><br>
<b>An:</b> <a href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank">general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a><br>
<b>Betreff:</b> Re: [General] relativistic mass</div>
<div name="quoted-content">
<div style="background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">Has
anyone ever measured the gravitational weight of light
in a bottle?<br>
Does a hot hollow ball weigh more than a cold one?<br>
<br>
WOlf
<pre>Dr. Wolfgang Baer
Research Director
Nascent Systems Inc.
tel/fax <a href="tel:831-659-3120" value="+18316593120" target="_blank">831-659-3120</a>/0432
E-mail <a href="http://wolf@NascentInc.com" target="_blank">wolf@NascentInc.com</a></pre>
<div>On 10/8/2015 3:51 PM, Adam
K wrote:</div>
<blockquote>
<div>Hi Martin,
<div> </div>
<div>Yes, general relativity. That link references
the book I keep quoting in this discussion list,
which is all about general relativity. Schrodinger
introduces the basic idea and its consequences
very lucidly. </div>
<div> </div>
<div>The origin of mass was always the sticking
point of this theory, and was where Einstein
focused his efforts for many decades. He called
the representation of mass in the theory an <i>asylum
ignorantiae</i>. </div>
<div> </div>
<div>Adam</div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<div> </div>
<div class="gmail_extra">
<div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Oct 8, 2015 at
3:05 PM, Mark, Martin van der <span><<a href="http://martin.van.der.mark@philips.com" target="_blank"><a href="mailto:martin.van.der.mark@philips.com" target="_blank">martin.van.der.mark@philips.com</a></a>></span>
wrote:
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 0.8ex;border-left:1.0px rgb(204,204,204) solid;padding-left:1.0ex">
<div>
<div>Dear Adam K,</div>
<div>Thank you for the quote, and isn't it a
puzzling one? "The deflection is due to
gravitation AND mass!!" Well that is one
mass too many, in my opinion, but i think
this should be interpreted as if not just
Newtonion gravitation is working but,
instead, general relativity (which
includes corrections to the former).</div>
<div> </div>
<div>John D, i have not recently responded
to your comments, but thank you very much
indeed for the useful explanations
combined with your great sense of humor!
The helicopter one with not finding the
hard bits actually made it physically
impossible for me to hit the small keys on
my phone for a while.</div>
<div>Cheers!</div>
<div>Very best regards, Martin<br>
<br>
Verstuurd vanaf mijn iPhone</div>
<div><br>
Op 8 okt. 2015 om 23:23 heeft "<a href="http://davidmathes8@yahoo.com" target="_blank"><a href="mailto:davidmathes8@yahoo.com" target="_blank">davidmathes8@yahoo.com</a></a>"
<<a href="http://davidmathes8@yahoo.com" target="_blank">davidmathes8@yahoo.com</a>>
het volgende geschreven:<br>
</div>
<blockquote>
<div>
<div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);background-color:rgb(255,255,255);font-family:HelveticaNeue,Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Lucida Grande,sans-serif;font-size:16.0px">
<div>Adam</div>
<div> </div>
<div>For the light rays near the sun,
wouldn't one need not just E &
M fields. To identify the
gravitational component,one would
have to rigorous eliminate effects
from the weak and strong forces as
well. </div>
<div> </div>
<div>Also, there may be some value in
considering Dirac's symmetric
version of the Maxwell equations. In
doing so, magnetism should be
considered as a separate force, a
fifth force if you will.</div>
<div> </div>
<div>David</div>
<div> </div>
<blockquote style="border-left:2.0px solid rgb(16,16,255);margin-left:5.0px;margin-top:5.0px;padding-left:5.0px">
<div style="font-family:HelveticaNeue,Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Lucida Grande,sans-serif;font-size:16.0px">
<div style="font-family:HelveticaNeue,Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Lucida Grande,sans-serif;font-size:16.0px">
<div>
<hr size="1"><font size="2" face="Arial"><b><span style="font-weight:bold">From:</span></b>
Adam K <<a href="http://afokay@gmail.com" target="_blank"><a href="mailto:afokay@gmail.com" target="_blank">afokay@gmail.com</a></a>><br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">To:</span></b>
Nature of Light and
Particles - General
Discussion <<a href="http://general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank"><a href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank">general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a></a>><br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Sent:</span></b>
Thursday, October 8, 2015
12:41 PM<br>
<span><b><span style="font-weight:bold">Subject:</span></b>
Re: [General] relativistic
mass</span></font></div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>With the danger
of producing the
impression that I
have only read one
book, Martin I
thought you would
enjoy this quote:
<div> </div>
<div><i>The
deflection of
light rays that
pass near the
sun is not a
purely
gravitational
phenomenon, it
is due to the
fact that an
electromagnetic
field possesses
energy and
momentum, hence
also mass.</i>
<div> </div>
<div>From page 1,
here: <a href="http://strangebeautiful.com/other-texts/schrodinger-st-struc.pdf" target="_blank"><a href="http://strangebeautiful.com/other-texts/schrodinger-st-struc.pdf" target="_blank">http://strangebeautiful.com/other-texts/schrodinger-st-struc.pdf</a></a>
<div> </div>
<div>Adam</div>
<div> </div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>On Thu, Oct 8,
2015 at 12:33 PM,
Mark, Martin van
der <span><<a href="http://martin.van.der.mark@philips.com" target="_blank"><a href="mailto:martin.van.der.mark@philips.com" target="_blank">martin.van.der.mark@philips.com</a></a>></span> wrote:
<blockquote style="margin:0 0 0 0.8ex;border-left:1.0px rgb(204,204,204) solid;padding-left:1.0ex">Dear
Andrew,<br clear="none">
The paper "light
is heavy" is no
more, and no
less, than a
supposedly
didactic and the
only consistent
explanation of
special
relativity and
its
consequences.
Most important
points are that
there are some
confusions:<br clear="none">
1) mass is not
matter<br clear="none">
2) energy is
equivalent,
exactly the same
as, mass: E=mc^2<br clear="none">
3) light is
massive, both in
the inertial and
gravitational
sense, as is
obvious from
experiment<br clear="none">
4) the greatest
confusion is
about light
being massless,
which indeed it
would be if it
couldn't/didn't
move. The whole
point is that
light is always
moving at the
speed of light,
so it is a
non-existing
limit.<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
Weighing a box
with a molecular
gas, or that of
a "photon" gas
give the same
kind of result:
the
gravitational
mass of the gas
plus the weight
of the box.
Light is
gravitationally
deflected by
large masses,
experimentally.
Light carries
momentum and
energy.<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
There is nothing
new in what i
say, it is
consistent with
Einsteinian
relativity an
represents the
vision of Herman
weyl too, and
many others<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
Best, Martin<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
Verstuurd vanaf
mijn iPhone
<div>
<div><br clear="none">
> Op 8 okt.
2015 om 19:52
heeft Andrew
Meulenberg
<<a href="http://mules333@gmail.com" target="_blank"><a href="mailto:mules333@gmail.com" target="_blank">mules333@gmail.com</a></a>>
het volgende
geschreven:<br clear="none">
><br clear="none">
> Dear
Martin,<br clear="none">
><br clear="none">
> In your
"Light is
Heavy" you
state:<br clear="none">
><br clear="none">
> "In the
case of light,
the rest mass
is zero, but
the
gravitational
mass equals
the inertial
mass, which is
identical to
the
relativistic
mass."<br clear="none">
><br clear="none">
> Do you
have any
reference for
my contention
that the
relativistic
mass of
particles is
bound
EM-radiation?<br clear="none">
><br clear="none">
> In the
case of
electron/positron
annihilation,
restmass is
converted to
relativistic
mass &
then to
radiation.
However, I do
not know of
any text or
paper that
identifies
relativistic
mass as bound
EM-radiation.
Your statement
is close to
that.<br clear="none">
><br clear="none">
> Andrew</div>
</div>
>
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