<html><head></head><body><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:16px"><div>Albrecht</div><div><br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1444831758864_3458">A lepton with strong force...that is rather interesting. </div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1444831758864_3458"><br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1444831758864_3458">I could not find the DESY 2004 reference. Do you have it handy?</div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1444831758864_3458"><br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1444831758864_3458">David</div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1444831758864_3291"><br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1444831758864_3291"><br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1444831758864_3292"><br></div><br> <blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255); margin-left: 5px; margin-top: 5px; padding-left: 5px;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1444831758864_3026"> <div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1444831758864_3025"> <div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1444831758864_3024"> <div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1444831758864_3023"> <hr size="1"> <font size="2" face="Arial" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1444831758864_3022"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">From:</span></b> Dr. Albrecht Giese <genmail@a-giese.de><br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> Richard Gauthier <richgauthier@gmail.com>; 'Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion' <general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org> <br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Wednesday, October 14, 2015 5:40 AM<br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [General] research papers<br> </font> </div> <div class="y_msg_container" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1444831758864_3303"><br><div id="yiv2857717478"><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1444831758864_3302">
<font size="+1" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1444831758864_3301"><big id="yui_3_16_0_1_1444831758864_3300"><big id="yui_3_16_0_1_1444831758864_3299"><small id="yui_3_16_0_1_1444831758864_3298">Hello Richard,<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
I refer to your first reference given below "The
Charged-Photon Model of the Electron ... ". Which I liked
very much to read, but without agreeing to everything of it.<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
The crucial thing seems to be the 'de Broglie wavelength'. I
can follow your deduction. You take the energy and so the
momentum of the orbiting charged photon. You calculate the
wave number of the photon from the momentum. Then you take
the actual component of the wave number in the direction of
the whole electron. And the result is in fact the de Broglie
wavelength. - But what is the physics behind that?<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
If the electron moves slowly, the phase speed is much more
than c. In the case of the electron at rest it is even
infinite. So, the whole wave oscillates with a fixed phase
until infinity. What kind of wave can that be? Yes, a phase
can move faster than a material wave. But such a different
(and higher) phase speed can only be caused by a
superposition of waves. Who contributes to this
superposition? You mention as an example that e.g. a pulse
can be understood as a superposition of a collection of
single waves. Correct. But just in this case the length of
the resulting phase wave will never be infinite. So, what is
the physics behind? I do not see an answer in your paper.
And I for myself have as well no answer to it.<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
The same is true for de Broglie. In his paper of 1924 he
deduces an equation for the phase speed so that the de
Broglie wavelength, which has turned out to be practical to
describe scattering at double slits etc, is the result of
his mathematical procedure. But de Broglie himself states
the lack of physical understanding (as you also quote so in
your paper):<br clear="none">
</small></big></big></font><br clear="none">
<font size="+1"><big><big><small>
</small></big></big></font></div><style>
#yiv2857717478 #yiv2857717478 --
_filtered #yiv2857717478 {panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;}
_filtered #yiv2857717478 {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
#yiv2857717478
#yiv2857717478 p.yiv2857717478MsoNormal, #yiv2857717478 li.yiv2857717478MsoNormal, #yiv2857717478 div.yiv2857717478MsoNormal
{margin-top:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:8.0pt;margin-left:0cm;line-height:107%;font-size:11.0pt;}
#yiv2857717478 .yiv2857717478MsoChpDefault
{}
#yiv2857717478 .yiv2857717478MsoPapDefault
{margin-bottom:8.0pt;line-height:107%;}
_filtered #yiv2857717478 {margin:70.85pt 70.85pt 2.0cm 70.85pt;}
#yiv2857717478 div.yiv2857717478WordSection1
{}
#yiv2857717478
</style><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1444831758864_3317"><div class="yiv2857717478MsoNormal" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1444831758864_3316"><big id="yui_3_16_0_1_1444831758864_3315"><big id="yui_3_16_0_1_1444831758864_3314"><small id="yui_3_16_0_1_1444831758864_3313"><span lang="EN-US" style="" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1444831758864_3312"><font size="+2" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1444831758864_3311">„… so that the present
theory may be considered a formal scheme whose
physical content is not yet fully determined, rather
than a full-fledged definite doctrine.”</font></span></small></big></big></div><big id="yui_3_16_0_1_1444831758864_3320"><big id="yui_3_16_0_1_1444831758864_3319"><small id="yui_3_16_0_1_1444831758864_3321">
So, even de Broglie admits in his paper that this is a
formal result which does not represent really understood
physics. But despite of this, Erwin Schrödinger has
integrated this "vague" approach into his famous
"Schrödinger equation". This is - as far as I understand it
- still the state of QM today. Nothing better.<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
With this I do not want to criticise you as I for myself
have at present no solution. This also answers your question
regarding the relation of my model to the de Broglie
wavelength. <br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
I see it as a valuable goal for the further development to
find an answer (a <i>physical </i>answer!) to the question
of the de Broglie wavelength.<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
Apart of this I would like to ask the following questions to
your model with a charged photon.<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
- If this photon is orbiting in the electron, by which
force is it hold on its orbit?<br clear="none">
- The photon has a mass or a momentum (which I find
equivalent) in it. So it has inertia. What is the mechanism
which causes this inertia? <br clear="none">
- A photon as we know it does not have a charge. So this
particle can be understood to be a different one. Would it
not be better to give it a new name, just for clarity? <br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
You ask me why my particle model does not only have one
orbiting particle but two? The answer is simply that this
explains the circular motion. One object cannot move on a
circular path without any bind to something else.<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
And should not any electron model have an answer to the fact
that there is also the strong interaction found in the
electron (DESY 2004)?<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
Best regards<br clear="none">
Albrecht</small></big><br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
</big><br clear="none">
<div class="yiv2857717478moz-cite-prefix"><big><big><font size="+1"><big><big>Am
05.10.2015 um 19:17 schrieb Richard Gauthier:<br clear="none">
</big></big></font></big></big></div>
<blockquote type="cite">
</blockquote></div><div class="qtdSeparateBR"><br><br></div><div class="yiv2857717478yqt6255097049" id="yiv2857717478yqt37850"><div><big><big><font size="+1"><big><big>Hello Albrecht,</big></big></font></big></big>
<div class="yiv2857717478"><big><big><font size="+1"><big><big><br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
</big></big></font></big></big></div>
<br clear="none">
<blockquote type="cite">
<div class="yiv2857717478"><big><big><font size="+1"><big><big> </big></big></font></big></big></div>
<div class="yiv2857717478"><big><big><font size="+1"><big><big>Thank you for
your further comments and questions.<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
</big></big></font></big></big>
<div class="yiv2857717478"><big><big><font size="+1"><big><big><br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
</big></big></font></big></big>
<div class="yiv2857717478"><big><big><font size="+1"><big><big>De Broglie's
“harmony of phases” argument is a little hard to
follow or picture. His derivation is given in my
article at <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv2857717478" target="_blank" href="https://www.academia.edu/9973842/The_Charged-Photon_Model_of_the_Electron_the_de_Broglie_Wavelength_and_a_New_Interpretation_of_Quantum_Mechanics">https://www.academia.edu/9973842/The_Charged-Photon_Model_of_the_Electron_the_de_Broglie_Wavelength_and_a_New_Interpretation_of_Quantum_Mechanics</a>
on p. 5 in the section “Comparison of the
charged-photon derivation to de Broglie’s
derivation”<span class="yiv2857717478" style="word-spacing:-4px;">.</span> "Harmony of phases" is
generally accepted. I’m quite pleased that I was
able with simple math to derive the electron's
relativistic de Broglie wavelength without it. I
also derived the electron’s relativistic
matter-wave equation A e^i(kx-wt) for a free
relativistic electron from the circulating charged
photon model, based on the circulating charged
photon emitting a plane wave along the charged
photon’s helical trajectory, with the circulating
charged photon’s wavelength h/(gamma mc) and
frequency f = (gamma mc^2)/h, using the relation
cos(theta) = v/c where theta is the forward angle
of the charged photon’s helical trajectory. The
intersection of this circulating plane wave with
the longitudinal axis of the circulating charged
photon’s helical trajectory generates the
electron’s matter-wave equation with the
relativistic de Broglie wavelength and phase
velocity c^2/v . </big></big></font></big></big></div>
<div class="yiv2857717478"><big><big><font size="+1"><big><big><br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
</big></big></font></big></big></div>
<div class="yiv2857717478"><big><big><font size="+1"><big><big>The momentum
of the circulating charged photon is p = gamma mc
because the energy E of the circulating charged
photon is set equal the total energy E of moving
electron E=gamma mc^2 and the energy-momentum
relation for a photon is p= E/c: p = E/c =
(gamma mc^2) / c = gamma mc for the total momentum
of the circulating charged photon along its
helical trajectory. This total momentum's
longitudinal component along the helical axis is p
cos(theta)= gamma mc x v/c = gamma mv which is
the relativistic momentum of the electron being
modeled by the circulating charged photon. The
transverse component of the charged photon's total
momentum is mc .</big></big></font></big></big></div>
<div class="yiv2857717478"><big><big><font size="+1"><big><big><br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
</big></big></font></big></big></div>
<div class="yiv2857717478"><big><big><font size="+1"><big><big>Since your
“basic particles” don’t, as you state, have
relativistic behavior, why not just have one
circulating light-speed particle instead of two?
Insisting on conservation of momentum between two
circulating non-physical particles (for which
there is no experimental evidence) doesn’t seem
logical.</big></big></font></big></big></div>
<div class="yiv2857717478"><big><big><font size="+1"><big><big><br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
</big></big></font></big></big></div>
<div class="yiv2857717478"><big><big><font size="+1"><big><big>For your
reference, my recent article is at <b class="yiv2857717478"><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv2857717478moz-txt-link-freetext" target="_blank" href="https://www.academia.edu/15686831/Electrons_are_spin_1_2_charged_photons_generating_the_de_Broglie_wavelength"></a><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv2857717478moz-txt-link-freetext" target="_blank" href="https://www.academia.edu/15686831/Electrons_are_spin_1_2_charged_photons_generating_the_de_Broglie_wavelength">https://www.academia.edu/15686831/Electrons_are_spin_1_2_charged_photons_generating_the_de_Broglie_wavelength</a> .</b></big></big></font></big></big></div>
<div class="yiv2857717478"><big><big><font size="+1"><big><big><br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
</big></big></font></big></big></div>
<div class="yiv2857717478"><big><big><font size="+1"><big><big>No one knows
why the electron’s rest mass is m = E(resting
electron)/c^2 = 0.511 MeV/c^2 . The Higgs
mechanism doesn’t predict m. A photon carrying
the energy E of the rest mass m of an electron has
energy hf = E=mc^2 and momentum p=mc . So mc is
more fundamental than m since this photon is not
at rest but has momentum mc. If this photon is
then converted into a resting electron, this
electron now has internal invariant circulating
momentum mc and a corresponding rest mass m which
the original photon did not have. So the photon's
original momentum mc, which precedes the
electron’s formation, is more fundamental than the
electron’s rest mass m.</big></big></font></big></big></div>
<div class="yiv2857717478"><big><big><font size="+1"><big><big><br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
</big></big></font></big></big></div>
<div class="yiv2857717478"><big><big><font size="+1"><big><big>with best
regards,</big></big></font></big></big></div>
<div class="yiv2857717478"><big><big><font size="+1"><big><big>
Richard</big></big></font></big></big></div>
<div class="yiv2857717478"><big><big><font size="+1"><big><big><b class="yiv2857717478"><br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
</b></big></big></font></big></big></div>
<div class="yiv2857717478"><big><big><font size="+1"><big><big><br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
</big></big></font></big></big></div>
<div class="yiv2857717478"><big><big><font size="+1"><big><big><br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
</big></big></font></big></big></div>
<div class="yiv2857717478"><big><big><font size="+1"><big><big><br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
</big></big></font></big></big></div>
<div class="yiv2857717478"><big><big><font size="+1"><big><big><br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
</big></big></font></big></big></div>
<div class="yiv2857717478"><big><big><font size="+1"><big><big><br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
</big></big></font></big></big></div>
<div class="yiv2857717478"><big><big><font size="+1"><big><big><br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
</big></big></font></big></big></div>
<div class="yiv2857717478">
<div>
<blockquote class="yiv2857717478" type="cite">
<div class="yiv2857717478"><big><big><font size="+1"><big><big>On Oct
4, 2015, at 2:01 PM, Dr. Albrecht Giese <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv2857717478moz-txt-link-abbreviated" ymailto="mailto:genmail@a-giese.de" target="_blank" href="mailto:genmail@a-giese.de"></a><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv2857717478moz-txt-link-abbreviated" ymailto="mailto:genmail@a-giese.de" target="_blank" href="mailto:genmail@a-giese.de">genmail@a-giese.de</a>>
wrote:</big></big></font></big></big></div>
<big><big><font size="+1"><big><big><br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478Apple-interchange-newline">
</big></big></font></big></big>
<div class="yiv2857717478"><big><big><font size="+1"><big><big> </big></big></font></big></big>
</div></blockquote></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div><div><div class="yiv2857717478"><big><big><font size="+1"><big><big> </big></big></font></big></big>
<div class="yiv2857717478moz-cite-prefix"><big><big><font size="+1"><big><big>Hello Richard,<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
</big></big></font> <font size="+1"><big><big><br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
Am 02.10.2015 um 07:45 schrieb Richard
Gauthier:<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
</big></big></font> </big></big></div>
<big><big><font size="+1"><big><big> </big></big></font></big></big>
<blockquote class="yiv2857717478" type="cite">
</blockquote></div></div><div><big><big> </big></big>
<div class="yiv2857717478"><big><big><font size="+1"><big><big>Hello
Albrecht,</big></big></font></big></big></div>
<big><big> </big></big>
<div class="yiv2857717478"><big><big><font size="+1"><big><big><br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
</big></big></font> </big></big></div>
<big><big> </big></big>
<div class="yiv2857717478"><big><big><font size="+1"><big><big>
Thank you for your detailed
explanations. Yes, I will wait for
your quantitative derivation of the
relativistic de Broglie wavelength
from your electron model. De Broglie’s
original derivation has the internal
frequency of his electron both
increasing (due to its energy as gamma
mc^2 = hf AND also decreasing due to
relativistic time dilation. He managed
to reconcile both of these frequencies
by his ingenious “harmony of phases”
relationship. Your electron model only
seems to have a decreasing frequency
with increasing speed, where you say
this decreasing frequency is due to
time dilation. Without an increasing
internal frequency proportional to the
electron's energy gamma mc^2 I think
you will have difficulty deriving the
relativistic de Broglie wavelength. My
model derives the de Broglie
wavelength value h/(gamma mv) easily
from the relativistic wavelength
h/(gamma mc) of the circulating
charged photon whose frequency is
given by hf=gamma mc^2, without
referring to relativistic time
dilation.</big></big></font></big></big></div>
<big><big> </big></big>
<big><big><font size="+1"><big><big> These are two
questions or problems. One is the increase
of the internal frequency of a particle at
motion despite of dilation. There is an
easy way to see how it in principle works.
I said earlier that the dilation, so the
reduction of the internal frequency, is
over-compensated by the Dopplereffect,
which is effective for an observer who
receives the particle. Mathematically: If
you divide the Doppler function (the
source moving towards the observer) by the
square of the gamma function, then the
result is more than 1. This shows that the
Doppler effect over-compensates the
reduction of the frequency by dilation at
least by gamma. The result should however
be exactly one. When I am at home again
(presently I am not) I will investigate my
literature to get a precise result.<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
Thank you for your note about the "harmony
of phases". The idea takes care of the
problem that on the one hand the frequency
in an elementary particle follows
E=mc^2=h*frequency, on the other hand the
de Broglie wavelength does not follow this
relation. What is the reason for that? In
my present understanding the "harmony of
phases" was an ad hoc attempt of de
Broglie to solve this problem
mathematically. I do not have the
impression that it is based on a true
understanding of a physical process. I
shall come back to this as soon as I am
back at home.<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
</big></big></font></big></big>
<blockquote class="yiv2857717478" type="cite"><big><big> </big></big>
<div class="yiv2857717478"><big><big><font size="+1"><big><big>
</big></big></font></big></big></div>
<big><big> </big></big>
<div class="yiv2857717478"><big><big><font size="+1"><big><big>
You say at one point: "We can
reorder this equation: m*R*c = h(bar).
The left side is now the classical
definition of the orbital momentum at
speed = c.” But mc is not the
momentum of a particle with rest mass
traveling at c, i.e. p = mv where v is
replaced by c. Could you have
misunderstood p=mc for the
relativistic equation for momentum p =
gamma mv for a particle with rest mass
m traveling at velocity v but never
able to reach c. <br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
</big></big></font> </big></big></div>
<big><big> </big></big></blockquote>
<big><big><font size="+1"><big><big> I have referred
to the classical definition of angular
momentum to show that the spin can be
visualized for such a type of model (i.e.
my model). Of course the units do not fit
with exact numbers. If we treat the model
as a classical gyroscope (what it
definitely not is) then this equation
describes the angular momentum. In that
case <i class="yiv2857717478">m </i>is of course the
<i class="yiv2857717478">effective </i>mass, in this
case however not applicable in so far as
there are no single "masses" in this
model. (Mass is a dynamical process within
the whole.) The speed c is not a problem
in so far as the "basic particles" do not
have a relativistic behavior. Relativistic
effects are caused by the elementary
particle as a whole as particularly
visible for the phenomenon of dilation.
But one point results very clearly from
this view: The resulting angular momentum
(=spin) is independent of other properties
of the particle. That is a physical result
here, not a result of some algebra. And
the numerical result is very close to the
correct one which is not a matter of
course. <br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
</big></big></font></big></big>
<blockquote class="yiv2857717478" type="cite"><big><big> </big></big>
<div class="yiv2857717478"><big><big><font size="+1"><big><big><br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
</big></big></font> </big></big></div>
<big><big> </big></big>
<div class="yiv2857717478"><big><big><font size="+1"><big><big>
However, the momentum quantity mc
does appear in my circulating charged
photon model as the invariant
transverse component of the helically
circulating charged photon’s total
momentum gamma mc. </big></big></font></big></big></div>
<big><big> </big></big></blockquote>
<big><big><font size="+1"><big><big> Why is the
momentum <i class="yiv2857717478">gamma mc</i>? If the
photon is subject to relativistic effects,
on which level of your model is relativity
founded? The increase of <i class="yiv2857717478">m </i>by
<i class="yiv2857717478">gamma </i>must have some
reason. Which reason is it? (I do not see
Einstein's algebra as a reason.)<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
</big></big></font></big></big>
<blockquote class="yiv2857717478" type="cite"><big><big> </big></big>
<div class="yiv2857717478"><big><big><font size="+1"><big><big>The
longitudinal component of the charged
photon’s circulating momentum is gamma
mv, which is the momentum of the
relativistic electron being modeled by
the circulating charged photon. The
transverse momentum component mc
contributes to the spin hbar/2 of a
slow moving or resting electron
composed of a circulating photon at
radius hbar/2mc in this way: Sz = r x
p = hbar/2mc x mc = hbar/2 . My
charged photon model is a generic
charged photon model, which needs a
more detailed charged photon model
incorporated into it that will give
the charged photon model a spin hbar/2
also at relativistic velocities, since
the electron has spin hbar/2 at all
velocities. I have such a possible
charged photon model that is
internally superluminal and has spin
hbar/2 at all energies, which might be
incorporated into the generic charged
photon model.</big></big></font></big></big></div>
<big><big> </big></big></blockquote>
<big><big><font size="+1"><big><big> This is a
collection of equations which are listed
here but not deduced or substantiated. I
guess that they are (quantitative)
consequences of the foundations of your
model. I do not have details of your model
here at hand as I am not at home. Is it
difficult for you to give me just a quick
reference? - The occurrence of
superluminal speed is a problem in so far
as it constitutes a new property which is
very different from present understanding
of physics. Better if we do not need such
assumptions.<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
</big></big></font></big></big>
<blockquote class="yiv2857717478" type="cite"><big><big> </big></big>
<div class="yiv2857717478"><big><big><font size="+1"><big><big><br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
</big></big></font> </big></big></div>
<big><big> </big></big>
<div class="yiv2857717478"><big><big><font size="+1"><big><big>
You asked if someone besides you
has an explanation of particle
inertia. This invariant circulating
transverse momentum component p=mc in
my charged photon model of the
electron gives my electron model an
invariant rest mass m and so this
circulating momentum component mc may
be the origin of inertia or rest mass
of material particles like the
electron.</big></big></font></big></big></div>
<big><big> </big></big></blockquote>
<big><big><font size="+1"><big><big> In my
understanding you put the logic here
upside down. You refer to the momentum <i class="yiv2857717478">p=mc</i>. But here is <i class="yiv2857717478">m </i>the origin of the
momentum. So, if mass is not defined, also
this expression is undefined. - Only after
the mass generation has been found, it
makes sense to talk about momentum. No the
other way around.<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
Albrecht</big></big></font><br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
</big><br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
</big>
<blockquote class="yiv2857717478" type="cite"><br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
<div class="yiv2857717478">
<blockquote class="yiv2857717478" type="cite">
<div class="yiv2857717478">On Oct 1, 2015, at 11:51 AM, Dr.
Albrecht Giese <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv2857717478" ymailto="mailto:genmail@a-giese.de" target="_blank" href="mailto:genmail@a-giese.de">genmail@a-giese.de</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478Apple-interchange-newline">
<div class="yiv2857717478">
</div></blockquote></div></blockquote></div><div><div class="yiv2857717478"> Dear Richard,<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
<div class="yiv2857717478moz-forward-container"> <br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
thank you for your list of explicit
questions. That makes it easy to answer
in a structured way. And I hope that my
answers can also answer some of the
other questions and doubts which came up
during the last days and mails.<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
<blockquote class="yiv2857717478" type="cite">
<div class="yiv2857717478moz-forward-container">
</div></blockquote></div></div></div><div><div class="yiv2857717478">Hello John and
Albrecht and all,</div>
<div class="yiv2857717478"><br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
</div>
<div class="yiv2857717478"> Thanks John, I
stand corrected on the issue of
your electron model not falling
off in lateral size as 1/gamma. </div>
<div class="yiv2857717478"><br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
</div>
<div class="yiv2857717478"> Albrecht, I am
still not satisfied with your
electron model for a number of
reasons:</div>
<div class="yiv2857717478"><br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
</div>
<div class="yiv2857717478">1) no experimental
evidence for multi-particle
structure of the electron even at
high energies.</div>
Yes, this model makes it difficult to
show experimentally this structure of
the electron. It is difficult by the
reason that both sub-particles do not
have any mass. So the particle cannot be
decomposed by bombardment, which is the
normal way of investigating a particle
structure in high energy physics (like a
proton). On the other hand it should not
be a problem to accept that a particle
is big as a whole, but by a scattering
experiment only a sub-particle is
detected. That has a historical analogy
in the Rutherford experiment, where
Rutherford wished to measure the size of
an atom but found the size of the
nucleus. In case of the electron the
experimenters look for the size of the
electron but find the size of the basic
particle.<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
However there is now indeed an
experimental evidence. As Frank Wilczek
wrote in his article in Nature, in a
specific situation (superconductivity in
a magnetic field), half-electrons were
detected. In his understanding it is a
complete mystery. In the view of this
particle model not so much a mystery.<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
An important theoretical argument for a
pair of sub-particles is the fact the
there is an internal motion (mag.
moment, spin), but the conservation of
momentum must not be violated. This
needs at least 2 sub-particles.<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
<blockquote class="yiv2857717478" type="cite">
<div class="yiv2857717478moz-forward-container">
<div class="yiv2857717478"><br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
</div>
<div class="yiv2857717478">2) your light-speed
charged, massless circulating
particles carry no resting inertia
— why not just call them
circulating charged photons, and
just have one of them rather than
two, based on the lack of
experimental evidence for
multi-particle structure of the
electron? <br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
Arguments against a photon: A photon at
c has inertia. With this assumption the
model cannot work (look for the
mechanism of inertia). And a photon does
not have a single (or half) electric
charge. And scattering of other charged
particles (like quarks) at a photon
would not display a size < 10^-18. A
photon cannot be that small.<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
Further the photon has spin of 1 h(bar),
the electron has 1/2 of it. If the
electron would be built by 2 photons,
the combined spin should be 0 or 2. Or
there must be an additional orbital
momentum which is otherwise not known in
particle physics.
<blockquote class="yiv2857717478" type="cite">
<div class="yiv2857717478moz-forward-container">
<div class="yiv2857717478"><br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
</div>
<div class="yiv2857717478">3) there is no clear
model of a photon in your system
(maybe I missed it) and how
electron-positron pair production
of your electron model and
positron model would emerge from
a single photon in the vicinity of
a nucleus (a common method of pair
production).</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
I must admit that I do not have a
consistent model for a photon. I tend to
the idea of de Broglie that a photon is
composed by 2 elementary particles. But
I do not assume 2 neutrinos as de
Broglie did but maybe of 4 basic
particles in a very special
configuration. At least a photon has to
have positive and negative electric
charges inside, otherwise it would not
react with electric charges as it does.<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
If we assume that the photon is e.g.
built by 2 other particles which are
similar to electrons, pair production is
quite plausible. On the other hand, the
generation of elementary particles by
interaction processes, which should mean
in this context the generation of basic
particles, needs some additional
understanding. My model just uses
generations like those but has no
explanation yet for them. <br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
<blockquote class="yiv2857717478" type="cite">
<div class="yiv2857717478moz-forward-container">
<div class="yiv2857717478"><br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
</div>
<div class="yiv2857717478">4) the
two-dimensionality of your
electron model. Delta x in the
third dimension appears to be zero
and delta Px in the third
dimension is also zero. So delta x
delta Px is also zero , a strong
violation of the Heisenberg
uncertainty principle. Is that a
problem for your model?</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
The orbital motion of the 2
sub-particles goes on in a 2-dimensional
area, that is true. Problem with
Heisenberg's principle? (I prefer to
say: the uncertainty relation, because
nature is not determined by principles,
as elementary particles etc. do not have
a mind so that they can understand and
follow principles.) The uncertainty is a
"technical" consequence of the de
Broglie wave which surrounds and guides
a particle. Such wave can only be
determined with uncertainty, that is the
uncertainty found in measurements. I do
not see any uncertainty in particles
themselves as everywhere when we can
measure parameters in an interaction,
the conservation laws are fulfilled
without an uncertainty.
<blockquote class="yiv2857717478" type="cite">
<div class="yiv2857717478moz-forward-container">
<div class="yiv2857717478"><br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
</div>
<div class="yiv2857717478">5) the fact that your
model’s lateral size doesn’t
decrease as electron speed
increases. Since the 2 particles
still move at light speed, this
would require that the frequency
of their circulation will reduce,
rather than increase as would be
expected with the electron's
increasing energy as its speed
increases. That also leaves your
high energy relativistic electron
model about 100,000 times too big,
compared with high energy electron
scattering experiments. </div>
</div>
</blockquote>
Irrespective to which direction an
electron moves, the orbital frequency
reduces by the factor gamma. This is
simple geometry and the physical cause
of dilation in SR. On the other hand, if
the electron moves towards another
object to undergo an interaction there,
then the other object experiences an
increase of frequency by the Doppler
effect. This Doppler effect
over-compensates the relativistic
reduction. - By the way, this
consideration was the starting point for
de Broglie when he began to think about
elementary particles, which ended with
the Nobel price.
<blockquote class="yiv2857717478" type="cite">
<div class="yiv2857717478moz-forward-container">
<div class="yiv2857717478">To say that electron
scattering occurs in your model
with only one of the two rotating
point-like particles and the other
is pulled along without inertial
resistance doesn’t work for me and
seems very non-physical. <br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
As the "other" sub-particle has no
inertial mass, it can follow any
acceleration. This is (also) covered by
Newton's law of inertia. But as both
sub-particles are bound to each other by
a field which is subject to the finite
speed of light, the "other" one causes
the inertia of the whole configuration
by the delay of field propagation. - It
is essential for the understanding of
this model to understand the underlying
mechanism of inertia. See further down.
<blockquote class="yiv2857717478" type="cite">
<div class="yiv2857717478moz-forward-container">
<div class="yiv2857717478"><br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
</div>
<div class="yiv2857717478">6) the fact that the
electron’s z-component of spin 1/2
hbar is not clearly present in
your model whose radius is the
reduced Compton wavelength hbar/mc
and not the Dirac amplitude
hbar/2mc which easily yields the
electron’s spin 1/2 ,
zitterbewegung frequency,
double-looping in a resting
electron and the Dirac 720 degree
rotational symmetry of the
electron. (This is the same
problem I see with John M’s
electron model, which also doesn’t
have a clear spin 1/2 hbar since
its radius is also hbar/mc and not
hbar/2mc .)</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
The sub-particles in this model are
bound to each other by a multi-pole
field of the strong force. This field
causes the inertia of the whole particle
and so tries to inhibit any change of
the motion state. As the sub-particles
orbit at c and also the binding field
moves at c, the one sub-particle does
not receive the field of the other one
from the opposite direction of the
orbital motion, but the force has a
component in the direction of the
circumference of the orbit. This
inhibits a change of the orbital motion
and causes so an orbital momentum, i.e.
a spin.<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
For an approximate calculation: The mass
is given by m = h(bar) / (R*c) . We can
reorder this equation: m*R*c = h(bar).
The left side is now the classical
definition of the orbital momentum at
speed = c. - This is not numerically
applicable here as the model does not
function as a classical gyroscope. But
it shows how spin in principle works.<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
Regarding Dirac: What Dirac has done is
algebra, not physics. It is often very
practical to do algebra do solve
physical problems, but we should always
be aware of the fact that we have to
trace the algebra back to the physical
processes behind the calculation. And so
also his period of 720 degrees is a kind
of mathematical trick helpful for some
calculations. But the physical space
does in my understanding not have a
periodicity of 720 degrees.
<blockquote class="yiv2857717478" type="cite">
<div class="yiv2857717478moz-forward-container">
<div class="yiv2857717478"><br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
</div>
<div class="yiv2857717478">7) the wave nature of
your model is not clear to me.
What in your model produces the
electron's quantum wave nature,
and how does your moving electron
model generate the relativistic de
Broglie wavelength quantitatively?
Does it? You seem to accept the
pilot wave concept of de
Broglie-Bohm. Does your electron
model display quantum non-locality
and entanglement as Bohm’s does
and which is also strongly
experimentally supported?</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
The field which binds both sub-particles
propagates into any direction in space.
So it is existent also outside of this
configuration "electron". As the
electron circulates, it is an
alternating field which emits waves into
the surrounding space. When the particle
moves, it takes the wave-field with it.
This guides the particle as anticipated
by de Broglie and, among other effects,
causes the scattering structure at a
double slit. <br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
Non-locality and entanglement: This was
my original motivation to investigate
theoretical physics (originally I am an
experimentalist). But up to now I was
not successful to find an explanation
for that. - But that is another topic
which has no direct relation to my
model. - It is a new information for me
that Bohm did have an explanation for
entanglement.<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
You are asking for the deduction of the
de Broglie wavelength. For presenting a
quantitative deduction I have to
investigate some more details, and so I
ask you for some patience. I shall come
back to it.<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
Finally I would like to emphasize the
fact that this model is the only one
which explains inertia. As it is
meanwhile admitted by mainstream
physics, the Higgs model is not able to
provide this. The necessary Higgs field
does definitely not exist. <br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
The reason for mass is that any extended
object has inertia, independent of
"elementary masses" which may exist
inside an object. The reason is the
finiteness of the speed of light, by
which binding fields, which must be
present in any extended object,
propagate. This is not an idea or a
wage possibility, but it is completely
unavoidable. Applied to a particle
model, a particle can only have inertial
if it is extended. <br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
Question: Does anyone of you all here
has another working model of inertia?<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
Here I should end today. But I will be
happy to get further - and critical -
questions.<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
Best regards<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
Albrecht<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
<blockquote class="yiv2857717478" type="cite">
<div class="yiv2857717478moz-forward-container"><br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
<div class="yiv2857717478">
<blockquote class="yiv2857717478" type="cite">
<div class="yiv2857717478">On Sep 29, 2015,
at 1:48 AM, John Williamson
<<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv2857717478" ymailto="mailto:John.Williamson@glasgow.ac.uk" target="_blank" href="mailto:John.Williamson@glasgow.ac.uk">John.Williamson@glasgow.ac.uk</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478Apple-interchange-newline">
<div class="yiv2857717478">
<div class="yiv2857717478" style="font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255);direction:ltr;font-family:Tahoma;font-size:10pt;">
<div class="yiv2857717478MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:Cambria;"><span class="yiv2857717478">Dear everyone
especially Al, Albrecht
and Richard,</span></div>
<div class="yiv2857717478MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:Cambria;"><span class="yiv2857717478">I have been
meaning to weigh-in for
some time, but term has
just started and I’m
responsible for hundreds
of new students, tens of
PhD’s, there is only one
of me and my mind is
working on less than ten
percent capacity.<span class="yiv2857717478Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></div>
<div class="yiv2857717478MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:Cambria;"><span class="yiv2857717478">I think we have
to distinguish between
what is know,
experimentally, and our
precious (to us) little
theoretical models.
Please remember everyone
that theory is just
theory. It is fun to
play with and that is
what we are all doing.
The primary thing is
first to understand
experiment – and that is
hard as there is a huge
amount of
mis-information in our
“information” technology
culture.</span></div>
<div class="yiv2857717478MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:Cambria;"><span class="yiv2857717478">You are right,
Al, that Martin has not
carried out experiments,
directly, himself, on
the electron size in
both high energy and at
low energy, but I have.</span></div>
<div class="yiv2857717478MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:Cambria;"><span class="yiv2857717478">I have many
papers, published in the
most prestigious
journals, on precisely
those topics. They HAVE
had much interest (in
total more than ten
thousand citations). I
have sat up, late at
night, alone, performing
experiments<span class="yiv2857717478"> <span class="yiv2857717478Apple-converted-space"> </span></span>both
with the largest lepton
microscope ever made
(The EMC experiment at
CERN) and with my superb
(best in the world at
the time) millikelvin
Cryostat looking at
precisely the inner
structure of single
electrons spread out
over sizes much (orders
of magnitude) larger
than my experimental
resolution. It is widely
said, but simply not
true, that “no
experiment resolves the
electron size”.<span class="yiv2857717478Apple-converted-space"> </span><span class="yiv2857717478"> </span>This
comes, largely, from
simple ignorance of what
the experiments show. I
have not only seen
inside single electrons,
but then used the
observed properties and
structure,
professionally and in
widely published and
cited work, to design
new devices. Have had
them made and measured
(in collaboration with
others), and seen them
thenwork both as
expected, but also to
reveal deeper mysteries
again involving the
electron size, its
quantum spin, its inner
charge distribution and
so on. That work is
still going on, now
carried by my old
colleagues and by the
rest of the world. Nano
– my device was the
first nanosemiconductor
device. Spintronics,
designed the first
devices used for this.
Inner workings of spin ,
and the exclusion
principle Martin and I
hope to crack that soon!
Fun! All welcome!</span></div>
<div class="yiv2857717478MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:Cambria;"><span class="yiv2857717478">Now where
Martin is coming from,
and where he,
personally, late at
night etc … HAS done
lots of professional
experiments and has been
widely cited is in
playing the same kind of
games with light that I
have done with
electrons. This means
that, acting together,
we really know what we
are talking about in a
wide range of physics.
Especially particle
scattering, quantum
electron transport, and
light. We may be making
up the theories, but we
are not making up a wide
and deep understanding
of experiment.</span></div>
<div class="yiv2857717478MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:Cambria;"><span class="yiv2857717478">I take your
point – and you are so
right -that there are so
many things one would
like to read and
understand and has not
yet got round to. So
much and so little time.
Ore papers written per
second than one can read
per second. There is,
however, no substitute
for actually having been
involved in those very
experiments to actually
understand what they
mean.</span></div>
<div class="yiv2857717478MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:Cambria;"><span class="yiv2857717478">So what I am
about to say is not
going to be “shooting
from the hip”, but is
perhaps more like having
spent a couple of
decades developing a
very large rail gun
which has just been
loaded for its one-shot
at intergalactic
exploration …</span></div>
<div class="yiv2857717478MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:Cambria;"><span class="yiv2857717478">Now I hope you
will not take this badly
…<span class="yiv2857717478"> <span class="yiv2857717478Apple-converted-space"> </span></span>it
is fun to think about
this but here goes</span></div>
<div class="yiv2857717478MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:Cambria;"><span class="yiv2857717478">Here is what
you said (<span class="yiv2857717478" style="color:rgb(31, 73, 125);">making
you blue</span>):</span></div>
<div class="yiv2857717478MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:Cambria;"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Verdana;color:rgb(31, 73, 125);background-color:white;">You have not
done an experiment, but
(at best) a calculation
based on some
hypothtical input of
your choise. Maybe it's
good, maybe not.<span class="yiv2857717478Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></div>
<div class="yiv2857717478MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:Cambria;"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Verdana;background-color:white;">Not so: I have
done the experiments!
Myself. This is exactly
why I started looking
into the extant models
decades ago, found them
sadly lacking, and hence
set out to devise new
ones that did agree with
experiment at both low
and high energy. This is
the whole point! </span><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:5pt;font-family:Helvetica;background-color:white;"></span></div>
<div class="yiv2857717478" style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:Cambria;"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Verdana;background-color:white;"> </span><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:5pt;font-family:Helvetica;background-color:white;"></span><br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478webkit-block-placeholder">
</div>
<div class="yiv2857717478MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:Cambria;"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Verdana;background-color:white;">The Sun
scatters as a point only
those projectiles that
don't get close.</span></div>
<div class="yiv2857717478MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:Cambria;"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Verdana;background-color:white;">True,</span></div>
<div class="yiv2857717478MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:Cambria;"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Verdana;background-color:white;"><span class="yiv2857717478"> </span>
So far, no scattering
off elecrtons has gotten
close enough to engage
any internal structure,
"they" say (I#ll defer
to experts up-to-date).<span class="yiv2857717478Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></div>
<div class="yiv2857717478MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:Cambria;"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Verdana;background-color:white;">Not so. Lots of
papers on this. Some by
me. See e.g. Williamson,
Timmering, Harmans,
Harris and Foxon Phys
Rev 42 p 7675. Also – I
am an expert (up to
date) on HEP as well. A
more correct statement
is that no high-energy
scattering experiment
has RESOLVED any
internal structure in
free electrons. If this
was all you knew (and
for many HEP guys it
seems to be) then one
might interpret this as
meaning the electron was
a point down to 10-18m.
It is not. It cannot be.
It does not have enough
mass to account for its
spin (even if at
lightspeed) if it is
that small. Work it out!</span></div>
<div class="yiv2857717478" style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:Cambria;"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Verdana;background-color:white;"> </span><br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478webkit-block-placeholder">
</div>
<div class="yiv2857717478MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:Cambria;"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Verdana;background-color:white;"> <span class="yiv2857717478" style="color:rgb(31, 73, 125);">Nevertheless,
electrons are in
constant motion at or
near the speed of
light (Zitterbewegung)
and therefore at the
time scales of the
projectiles buzz
around (zittern) in a
certain amout of
space, which seems to
me must manifest
itself as if there
were spacially
exteneded structure
within the scattering
cross-section. Why
not?</span></span></div>
<div class="yiv2857717478MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:Cambria;"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Verdana;background-color:white;">Because this is
no good if one does not
have the forces or the
mechanism for making it
“zitter”.</span></div>
<div class="yiv2857717478MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:Cambria;"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Verdana;background-color:white;">More
importantly
-experimentally- because
that is not what you
see. If it was just
zittering in space one
could see that zitter.
What you see (in deep
inelastic lepton
scattering, for
example), is that there
is no size scale for
lepton scattering. That
is, that no structure is
resolved right down to
10^-18 metres. This is
NOT the same thing as an
electron being a point.
That is why one says (if
one knows a bit about
what one is talking
about) that it is
“point-like” and not
“point” scattering.
These qualifiers ALWAYS
matter. Point-like – not
a point. Charged photon-
not a photon. Localised
photon – not a photon.
Vice-Admiral- not an
admiral. Vice-president-
more a reason for not
shooting the president!</span></div>
<div class="yiv2857717478MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:Cambria;"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Verdana;background-color:white;">That structure
is not resolved does NOT
mean that the electron
is point.<span class="yiv2857717478"> <span class="yiv2857717478Apple-converted-space"> </span></span>This is widely accepted as
fact, but just
represents a (far too
widespread) superficial
level of understanding.
Any inverse-square,
spherically symettric
force-field has this
property (eg spherical
planets if you do not
actually hit them). The
real problem is to
understand how it can
appear spherically
symettric and inverse
square in scattering
while ACTUALLY being
much much larger than
this. This is exactly
what I started out
working on in 1980 and
have been plugging away
at ever since. Exactly
that! You need to
explain all of
experiment: that is what
this is all about. </span></div>
<div class="yiv2857717478MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:Cambria;"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Verdana;color:rgb(31, 73, 125);background-color:white;">Not to defend
Albrecht's model as he
describes it, but many
folks (say Peter
Rowlands at Liverpool,
for example) model
elemtary particles in
terms of the partiicle
itself interacting with
its induced virtual
image (denoted by Peter
as the "rest of the
universe"). This
"inducement" is a kind
of polarization effect.
Every charge repells
all other like charges
and attracts all other
unlike charges resulting
in what can be modeled
as a virtual charge of
the opposite gender
superimposed on itself
in the static
approximation. But,
because the real
situation is fluid, the
virtual charge's motion
is delayed as caused by
finite light speed, so
that the two chase each
other. Etc. Looks
something like
Albrecht's pairs.</span></div>
<div class="yiv2857717478MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:Cambria;"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Verdana;background-color:white;">Yes I know.
This is the same kind of
maths as “image charges”
used all the time in
modelling the solid
state. These are all
models. All models have
features. We need to
confront them with
experiment. Problem with
the pairs is you don’t
see any pairs. If one of
the pair has zero
mass-energy it is not
there at all. If there
was a pair, bound to
each other with some
forces, then one would
see something similar to
what one sees in proton
scattering (see below),
and you do not. One then
has to explain why and
how this process occurs,
every time. You always
(and only) see one thing
for electrons, muons.
You see a single object
for the electron, and an
internal structure for
the proton. This is what
your theory has to deal
with. Really. Properly.
In detail. At all
energies.</span><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:5pt;font-family:Helvetica;background-color:white;"></span></div>
<div class="yiv2857717478" style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:Cambria;"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Verdana;background-color:white;"> </span><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:5pt;font-family:Helvetica;background-color:white;"></span><br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478webkit-block-placeholder">
</div>
<div class="yiv2857717478MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:Cambria;"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Verdana;color:rgb(31, 73, 125);background-color:white;">I too havn't
read your 97 paper yet,
but I bet it's unlikely
that you all took such
consideration into
account.</span></div>
<div class="yiv2857717478MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:Cambria;"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Verdana;background-color:white;">You could not
know this, but his could
not be more wrong. We
did. You did not specify
the bet. Lets make it a
beer. You owe me (and
Martin) a beer! If you
have not yet read the
paper by the time we
next meet I think you
should buy all the
beers! Deal?</span></div>
<div class="yiv2857717478MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:Cambria;"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Verdana;background-color:white;">The whole point
of the paper my reason
for leaving high energy
physics at all, the
seven years of work
Martin and I put into it
to that point, was
exactly to resolve this
mystery – on the basis
of an “electron as a
localised photon”. My
subsequent work has been
to try to develop a
proper field theory to
deal with the problems
inherent I the old model
(unknown forces) and in
the Dirac theory (ad hoc
lump of mass) (amongst
others). This is the
point of the new theory
of light and matter:an
attempt to sort all that
out. You should read it
too! Do that and I will
buy you a beer!</span></div>
<div class="yiv2857717478MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:Cambria;"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Verdana;background-color:white;">Now Richard,
while I am disagreeing
with everyone I am going
to disagree with you
too! You keep saying
that the electron
apparent size scales
with gamma – and you
keep attributing me with
agreeing with you (and
Martin and Viv and
Chip). Let me say this
once and for all: I DO
NOT agree with this.<span class="yiv2857717478"> <span class="yiv2857717478Apple-converted-space"> </span></span>Now
Viv and Chip must speak
for themselves, but I’m
pretty sure Martin would
(largely – though not
completely) agree me
here.<span class="yiv2857717478Apple-converted-space"> </span><span class="yiv2857717478"> </span>I
have said this many
times to you – though
perhaps not specifically
enough.<span class="yiv2857717478"> <span class="yiv2857717478Apple-converted-space"> </span></span>It is not quite wrong – but
far too simple. It
scales ON AVERAGE so. I
agree that it changes
apparent size- yes, but
not with gamma- no. How
it actually scales was
discussed in the 1997
paper, and the
mathematics of this is
explained (for example)
in my “Light” paper at
SPIE (see Eq. 19). Gamma
= ½( x+ 1/x). Also, this
is amongst other things,
in Martin’s “Light is
Heavy” paper. Really the
apparent size scales
BOTH linearly AND
inverse linearly (as x
and 1/x then). It is the
average of these that
gives gamma. This is how
relativity actually
works. You do not put
things in, you get
things out. You need to
look at this and
understand how gamma is
related. Best thing is
to go through the maths
yourself, then you will
see.</span></div>
<div class="yiv2857717478MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:Cambria;"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Verdana;background-color:white;">The bottom line
is that the reason one
does not resolve the
electron size is that,
in a collision, this
size scales like light.
It gets smaller with
increasing energy.
Linearly. Likewise the
scattering exchange
photon scales like
light. Linearly. The
ratio for head on
collisions remains
constant – but the
exchange photon is
always about an order of
magnitude bigger that
the electron (localised
photon). This is WHY it
can be big (10^-13 m)<span class="yiv2857717478"> <span class="yiv2857717478Apple-converted-space"> </span></span>and
yet appear small. I said
this in my talk, but I
know how hard it is to
take everything in.</span></div>
<div class="yiv2857717478MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:Cambria;"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Verdana;background-color:white;">One does not
see internal structure
because of this effect –
and the fact that the
electron is a SINGLE
object. Not composite –
like a proton (and
Albrecht’s model).</span></div>
<div class="yiv2857717478MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:Cambria;"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Verdana;background-color:white;">Now what would
one see with lepton
scatting on protons? I
have dozens of papers on
this (and thousands of
citations to those
papers) – so this is not
shooting from the hip.
Let me explain as
briefly and simply as I
can. Lock and load …</span></div>
<div class="yiv2857717478MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:Cambria;"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Verdana;background-color:white;">At low energies
(expresses as a length
much less than 10^-15 m
or so), one sees
point-like scattering
from, what looks like, a
spherically symettric
charge distribution. Ok
there are differences
between positive
projectiles (which never
overlap) and negative,
but broad brush this is
so. There is then a
transitional stage where
one sees proton
structure – some
interesting resonances
and an effective “size”
of the proton (though
recently this has been
shown to be
(spectactularly
interestingly) different
for electron and muon
scattering! (This means
(obviously) that the
electron and muon have a
different effective size
on that scale). At much
higher energies one
begins to see (almost)
that characteristic
point-like scattering
again, from some hard
bits in the proton.
Rutherford atom all over
again. These inner parts
have been called
“partons”. Initially,
this was the basis
–incorrect in my view –
of making the
association of quarks
with partons. Problem
nowadays is that the
three valence quarks
carry almost none of the
energy-momentum of the
proton - - keeps getting
less and less as the
energies go up. I think
this whole quark-parton
thing is largely
bullshit.
Experimentally!</span></div>
<div class="yiv2857717478MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:Cambria;"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Verdana;background-image:none;background-attachment:scroll;background-color:white;background-position:0% 0%;background-repeat:repeat repeat;">Now
Albrecht you make some
good points. You are
absolutely right to
quote the experiments on
the relativity of time
with clocks and with
muons. You are also
right that one is not
much better off with
double loops (or any
other kinds of loops)
than with two little
hard balls. This is a
problem for any model of
the electron as a loop
in space (Viv, John M,
Chip, John D – this is
why the electron cannot
be a little spatial loop
– it is not consistent
with scattering
experiments!). Now this
is a problem in
space-space but not in
more complex spaces as
Martin and I have argued
(see SPIE electron paper
for up to date
description of this –
from my perspective). It
is more proper to say
the loops are in
“momentum space” though
this is not quite
correct either. They are
in the space(s) they are
in – all nine degrees of
freedom (dimensions if
you like) of them. None
of the nine are “space”.
For me, they are not
little loops in space.
In space they are
spherical. You are not
correct – as the DESY
director said and as I
said in the “panel”
discussion- that one
would not “see” this.
One would. Only if one
of the balls were not
there ( I like your get
out of saying that!),
would one observe what
one observes. In my
view, however, if it is
not there it is not
there. I’m open to
persuasion if you can
give me a mechanism
though!</span></div>
<div class="yiv2857717478MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:Cambria;"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Verdana;background-color:white;">Gotta go ...
need to sort out
tutorials ...<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
</span></div>
<div class="yiv2857717478MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:Cambria;"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Verdana;background-color:white;">Regards, John
W.</span><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:5pt;font-family:Helvetica;background-color:white;"></span></div>
<div class="yiv2857717478" style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:Cambria;"><span class="yiv2857717478"> </span><br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478webkit-block-placeholder">
</div>
<div class="yiv2857717478" style="font-family:'Times New Roman';font-size:16px;">
<hr class="yiv2857717478" tabindex="-1">
<div class="yiv2857717478" id="yiv2857717478divRpF633381" style="direction:ltr;"><font class="yiv2857717478" size="2" face="Tahoma"><b class="yiv2857717478">From:</b><span class="yiv2857717478Apple-converted-space"> </span>General [<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv2857717478moz-txt-link-abbreviated" ymailto="mailto:general-bounces+john.williamson=glasgow.ac.uk@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:general-bounces+john.williamson=glasgow.ac.uk@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org">general-bounces+john.williamson=glasgow.ac.uk@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>]
on behalf of Dr.
Albrecht Giese [<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv2857717478moz-txt-link-abbreviated" ymailto="mailto:genmail@a-giese.de" target="_blank" href="mailto:genmail@a-giese.de"></a><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv2857717478moz-txt-link-abbreviated" ymailto="mailto:genmail@a-giese.de" target="_blank" href="mailto:genmail@a-giese.de">genmail@a-giese.de</a>]<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
<b class="yiv2857717478">Sent:</b><span class="yiv2857717478Apple-converted-space"> </span>Monday, September 28, 2015 4:39 PM<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
<b class="yiv2857717478">To:</b><span class="yiv2857717478Apple-converted-space"> </span>Richard Gauthier; Nature of Light
and Particles -
General Discussion<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
<b class="yiv2857717478">Subject:</b><span class="yiv2857717478Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [General] research papers<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
</font><br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
</div>
<div class="yiv2857717478">Richard,<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
you have asked some
questions about my
electron model and I am
glad to answer them.<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
Does my model explain
the relativistic mass
increase of the electron
at motion? Yes it does.
According to my model
the mass of an electron
is m=h(bar) / (R<sub class="yiv2857717478">el</sub>*c),
where R<sub class="yiv2857717478">el</sub>
is the radius for the
electron (which is
equally valid for all
elementary particles).
Now, as the binding
field in the electron
contracts at motion by
gamma (as initially
found by Heaviside in
1888), also the size of
the electron contracts
at motion by gamma. So
the mass of the electron
increases by gamma and
also of course its
dynamical energy. - That
is very simple and
elementary. The same
considerations apply for
the relativistic
momentum of the
electron.<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
(This is all described
in my web site<span class="yiv2857717478Apple-converted-space"> </span><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv2857717478moz-txt-link-abbreviated" target="_blank" href="http://www.ag-physics.org/rmass"></a><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv2857717478moz-txt-link-abbreviated" target="_blank" href="http://www.ag-physics.org/rmass">www.ag-physics.org/rmass</a><span class="yiv2857717478Apple-converted-space"> </span>; you can also find it via Google
by the search string
"origin of mass". There
it is within the first
two positions of the
list, where the other
one is of Frank Wilczek;
since 10 years we both
are struggling to be the
number one.)<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
However, the contraction
only occurs in the
direction of motion. So
the cross section of the
electron is not changed
by the motion. And in so
far this contraction is
not able to explain the
small size of the
electron found in
scattering experiments.
- Another point is that
this small size was also
found in scattering
experiments at energies
smaller than 29 GeV.
And, another
determination, in the
Penning trap the size of
the electron turns out
to be < 10^-22 m.<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
So there must be
something in the
electron which is much
smaller than the Compton
wavelength. The model of
two orbiting
sub-particles is an
extremely simple model
which also explains a
lot else.<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
Regarding the
uncertainty relation of
Heisenberg, I have a
very "technical"
understanding of it as I
have explained it in our
meeting. There is
nothing imprecise within
the electron itself,
only the measurement has
limited precision. The
reason is simple.
Normally an interaction
of the electron is an
interaction of its de
Broglie wave with
another object. This
wave is a wave packet,
the size of which is
round about given by the
size of the
electron-configuration
(Compton wavelength);
the size of a wave
packet is not very
precisely defined. And
on the other hand, the
frequency of a limited
packet is not precisely
measurable. The relation
of both limitations is
well known by electric
engineers, the rule is
sometimes called
"Nyquist theorem". Now,
as the frequency is
related to the energy of
the particle, the
Nyquist theorem is
identical with
Heisenberg's uncertainty
relation; only the
interpretation of
quantum theorists is
less technical. They
assume that the physical
situation itself is
imprecise, not only the
measurement. Here I do
not follow the QM
interpretation.<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
Albrecht<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
<div class="yiv2857717478moz-cite-prefix">Am
26.09.2015 um 19:57
schrieb Richard
Gauthier:<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
</div>
<blockquote class="yiv2857717478" type="cite">
<div class="yiv2857717478">Albrecht,
Al, Martin et al</div>
<div class="yiv2857717478"><br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
</div>
<div class="yiv2857717478"> One
solution that I
think John W,
Martin, Chip (I
think), Vivian (as I
remember) and I all
agree on (I’m not
sure about John M’s
electron model) with
our electron models
is that the electron
(as a circulating
light-speed entity)
decreases in size
with increasing
speed of the
electron. Just as a
photon’s wavelength
(and presumably also
its transverse size
or extent) decreases
proportionally as
1/E with a photon’s
energy E=hf, a high
energy relativistic
electron (whose de
Broglie wavelength
is nearly equal to
the wavelength of a
high energy photon
having the same
total energy as the
high energy
electron) should
also decrease its
lateral size
similarly with its
energy. The lateral
size of an electron
decreases as 1/gamma
according to John
and Martin due to
energy
considerations. In
my model the radius
of the charged
photon’s helical
trajectory decreases
as 1/gamma^2 but
with a more detailed
extended (internally
superluminal) model
of the charged
photon also
decreases as 1/gamma
. A 1/gamma decrease
is enough to match
the high energy
(around 29GeV)
scattering size of
an electron found to
be < 10^-18
meters even though
the size of the
resting electron (on
the order of the
Compton wavelength)
is around 10^-12 -
10^-13 m. So this I
think is a solved
problem with respect
to our models.</div>
<div class="yiv2857717478"><br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
</div>
<div class="yiv2857717478"> I
don’t know if
Albrecht’s electron
model decreases as
1/gamma with
increasing electron
speed. I think not.
But Albrecht’s model
doesn’t I think take
into account that
the electron’s total
energy increases
proportionally with
gamma and so the
frequency of the 2
circulating
mass-less particles
should also increase
proportionally with
gamma if the energy
of his model is to
correspond to the
experimentally
measured moving
electron’s energy E=
gamma mc^2 . That
should require the
radius of the
2-particle orbit to
decrease with his
electron model’s
speed if the 2
orbiting particles
are to continue to
circulate at
light-speed. So
Albrecht's model’s
size should also
decrease at least as
1/gamma with its
speed,and the need
for the 2 massless
particles in his
model is unnecessary
to explain the small
size of the electron
at high speeds. As
far as conservation
of momentum
requiring 2
circulating
particles, John W.’s
model proposes to
solve this with his
p-vot which causes
the photon to curve
into a double loop
and produce the
electron’s rest mass
(as I understand it)
and charge. But also
the delta x delta p
> hbar/2
requirement of
Heisenberg’s
uncertainty
principle for
detectable
variability in
position and
velocity means that
probably for any
Compton wavelength
electron model the
amount of violation
of conservation of
momentum of a single
light-speed
photon-like object
looping around would
not be
experimentally
detectable (and so
allowed since it is
not experimentally
detected) as being
(like a virtual
particle in QED)
under the wire of
the Heisenberg
uncertainty
principle.</div>
</blockquote>
<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
<blockquote class="yiv2857717478" type="cite">
<div class="yiv2857717478">
Richard</div>
<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
<div class="yiv2857717478">
<blockquote class="yiv2857717478" type="cite">
<div class="yiv2857717478">On
Sep 26, 2015, at
8:57 AM, John
Duffield <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv2857717478moz-txt-link-abbreviated" ymailto="mailto:johnduffield@btconnect.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:johnduffield@btconnect.com"></a><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv2857717478moz-txt-link-abbreviated" ymailto="mailto:johnduffield@btconnect.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:johnduffield@btconnect.com">johnduffield@btconnect.com</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478Apple-interchange-newline">
<div class="yiv2857717478">
<div class="yiv2857717478WordSection1" style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255);">
<div class="yiv2857717478" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;color:rgb(31, 73, 125);">Albrecht:</span></div>
<div class="yiv2857717478" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;color:rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></div>
<div class="yiv2857717478" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;color:rgb(31, 73, 125);">In
case Martin is
tied up,
here’s his
1997 paper:<span class="yiv2857717478Apple-converted-space"> </span><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv2857717478moz-txt-link-freetext" target="_blank" href="http://www.cybsoc.org/electron.pdf">http://www.cybsoc.org/electron.pdf</a><span class="yiv2857717478Apple-converted-space"> </span>co-authored with John Williamson.<span class="yiv2857717478Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></div>
<div class="yiv2857717478" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;color:rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></div>
<div class="yiv2857717478" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;color:rgb(31, 73, 125);">As
regards
electron size,
it’s field is
what it is. In<span class="yiv2857717478Apple-converted-space"> </span><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv2857717478" target="_blank" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_orbital#Electron_properties" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline;">atomic
orbitals</a><span class="yiv2857717478Apple-converted-space"> </span>electrons “exist as standing
waves”.
Standing wave,
standing
field. We can
diffract
electrons. I
think the
electron has
size like a
seismic wave
has size. A
seismic wave
might have an
amplitude of 1
metre, and a
wavelength of
a kilometre.
But when it
travels from A
to B it isn’t
just the
houses on top
of the AB line
that shake.
Houses shake a
hundred miles
away. And that
seismic wave
is still
detectable on
the other side
f the Earth.
It’s not
totally
different for
an ocean wave,
see<span class="yiv2857717478Apple-converted-space"> </span><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv2857717478" target="_blank" href="https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4a/Deep_water_wave.gif" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline;">this
gif</a>. The
amplitude
might be 1m,
but that isn’t
the size of
the wave, nor
is the
wavelength.
The red test
particles are
still
circulating
deep below the
water.<span class="yiv2857717478Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></div>
<div class="yiv2857717478" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;color:rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></div>
<div class="yiv2857717478" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;color:rgb(31, 73, 125);">Try
to imagine a
wave going
round and
round, in a
double loop,
then make it a
tighter loop.
Then have a
look at<span class="yiv2857717478Apple-converted-space"> </span><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv2857717478" target="_blank" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_knot_theory" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline;">some
knots</a>.
Photon
momentum is a
measure of
resistance to
change-in-motion
for a wave
propagating
linearly at c.
When it’s a
511keV wave
going round
and round at
c, we don’t
call it a
photon any
more. But it
still exhibits
resistance to
change-in-motion.
Only we don’t
call it a
momentum any
more. We call
it mass. Make
sure you read<span class="yiv2857717478Apple-converted-space"> </span><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv2857717478" target="_blank" href="http://www.tardyon.de/mirror/hooft/hooft.htm" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline;">this</a>.
It’s not the
Nobel ‘t
Hooft.<span class="yiv2857717478Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></div>
<div class="yiv2857717478" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;color:rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></div>
<div class="yiv2857717478" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;color:rgb(31, 73, 125);">Regards</span></div>
<div class="yiv2857717478" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;color:rgb(31, 73, 125);">John
Duffield</span></div>
<div class="yiv2857717478" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;color:rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></div>
<div class="yiv2857717478">
<div class="yiv2857717478" style="border-style:solid none none;border-top-color:rgb(225, 225, 225);border-top-width:1pt;padding:3pt 0cm 0cm;">
<div class="yiv2857717478" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><b class="yiv2857717478"><span class="yiv2857717478" lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;color:windowtext;">From:</span></b><span class="yiv2857717478" lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;color:windowtext;"><span class="yiv2857717478Apple-converted-space"> </span>General [<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv2857717478moz-txt-link-freetext" ymailto="mailto:general-bounces+johnduffield=btconnect.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:general-bounces+johnduffield=btconnect.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org">mailto:general-bounces+johnduffield=btconnect.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>]<span class="yiv2857717478Apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="yiv2857717478">On Behalf Of<span class="yiv2857717478Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Dr.
Albrecht Giese<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
<b class="yiv2857717478">Sent:</b><span class="yiv2857717478Apple-converted-space"> </span>26 September 2015 15:46<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
<b class="yiv2857717478">To:</b><span class="yiv2857717478Apple-converted-space"> </span><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv2857717478moz-txt-link-abbreviated" ymailto="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org">general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a><br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
<b class="yiv2857717478">Subject:</b><span class="yiv2857717478Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [General] research papers</span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="yiv2857717478" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"> </div>
<div class="yiv2857717478MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 12pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;">Hi
Martin, Al,
and all,<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
thank you all
for your
contributions.<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
<u class="yiv2857717478">Regarding
the size of
the electron:</u><br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
As Al argued
in his example
of the sun: If
the scattered
object is
passing by
without
touching, the
angular
distribution
is independent
of the size of
the object
(for the 1/r^2
case). But
that changes
if the
scattered
particle hits
the body of
the "ball". In
a last
experiment in
2004 at DESY
there was an
experiment
performed in
which
electrons were
scattered
against quarks
(of a proton).
The "common"
size of both
particles
resulted in a
bit less than
10^-18 m. This
limit is given
by the ratio
of scattered
events which
react
different from
the 1/r^2
rule. - In
this
experiment it
was also found
that the
electron is
not only
subject to the
electric
interaction
but also to
the strong
interaction. I
think that
this is also
important for
assessing
electron
models.<span class="yiv2857717478Apple-converted-space"> </span><br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
This result of
the size seems
in clear
conflict with
the evaluation
of Schrödinger
and Wilczek
using the
uncertainty
relation.
Schroedinger
made the
following
statement to
it: "Here I
have got the
following
result for the
size of the
electron (i.e.
the Compton
radius). But
we know that
the electron
is point-like.
So, I must
have an error
in my
evaluation.
However, I do
not find this
error." So
also for
Schrödinger
this was an
unsolvable
conflict.<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
I think that
if the
electron would
be point like
on the one
hand but
oscillate far
enough so as
to fill the
size of the
Compton
wavelength,
this would be
a violation of
the
conservation
of momentum.
Very clearly,
a single
object cannot
oscillate.
That was also
obvious for
Schrödinger
and clearly
his reason to
call the
internal
motion
"Zitterbewegung".
This is a word
which does not
exist in the
German
vocabulary of
physical
terms. But
Schrödinger
hesitated (by
good reason)
to use the
German word
for
"oscillation".<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
On the other
hand, if the
electron is
built by two
sub-particles,
this solves
the problem.
The
sub-particle
is point-like
(at least with
respect to its
charge), but
both
sub-particles
orbit each
other, which
reserves the
momentum law,
and the
orbital radius
is the reduced
Compton
wavelength. -
The argument
of Martin that
a model of two
sub-particles
is "refuted by
the
experiment" is
often heart
but not
applicable to
my model. The
usual argument
is that a
sufficient
effort has
been done to
decompose an
electron by a
strong
bombardment.
This was also
done here at
DESY. But in
my model the
sub-particles
have no mass
on their own
(the mass of
the electron
is caused by
the dynamics
of the binding
field). And in
such a case
one of the
sub-particles
may be
accelerated by
an arbitrary
amount, the
other one can
always follow
without any
force coming
up. A
decomposition
by bombardment
is therefore
never
possible. - I
have discussed
this point
with the
research
director of
DESY who was
responsible
for such
experiments,
and after at
first
objecting it,
he admitted,
that my model
is not in
conflict with
these
experiments.<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
Martin: Where
do I find your
paper of 1997?<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
<u class="yiv2857717478">Regarding
dilation:</u><br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
There is a lot
of clear
indications
for dilation.
Two examples:<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
- The atomic
clocks in the
GPS satellites
are slowed
down which has
to be
compensated
for<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
- In the Muon
storage ring
at CERN the
lifetime of
these Muons
was extended
by the great
amount ca.
250, which was
in precise
agreement with
special
relativity.<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
Contraction,
on the other
hand, is in so
far more a
point of
interpretation
as it cannot
be directly
measured - in
contrast to
dilation.<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
Best wishes<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
Albrecht<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
</div>
<div class="yiv2857717478">
<div class="yiv2857717478" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;">Am
26.09.2015 um
01:48 schrieb<span class="yiv2857717478Apple-converted-space"> </span><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv2857717478moz-txt-link-abbreviated" ymailto="mailto:af.kracklauer@web.de" target="_blank" href="mailto:af.kracklauer@web.de">af.kracklauer@web.de</a>:</div>
</div>
<blockquote class="yiv2857717478" type="cite" style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt;">
<div class="yiv2857717478">
<div class="yiv2857717478">
<div class="yiv2857717478">
<div class="yiv2857717478" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Verdana, sans-serif;">Well!
The water I
was trying to
offer was:
might it not
be a good idea
to distinguish
clearly and
specifically
between the
size of a
point and the
size of the
volumn in
which this
point is
insessently
moving about.
If your 97
paper does
that, my
appologies.
Does it?
Forgive me, I
have over a
couple hundred
papers I'd
like to have
read and
digested
laying about,
I do my best
but still
can't get to
them all. The
chances are
better,
however, if a
paper attracts
lots of
attention
because it
predicted
something new
to be observed
empirically.
Did it? </span></div>
</div>
<div class="yiv2857717478">
<div class="yiv2857717478" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Verdana, sans-serif;"> </span></div>
</div>
<div class="yiv2857717478">
<div class="yiv2857717478" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Verdana, sans-serif;">BTW,
I did not
imply that the
work I refered
to is better.
But, it (in
Rowland's
avantar) is
certainly as
extensive as
yours. In any
case, it
potentially
undermines
your
"shot-from-the-hip"
criticism of
Albrecht's
program by
introducing a
feature to
which neither
you nor John
refered to, in
my best
memory, at San
Diego. My
comment was
not intended
ad hominum,
but made on
the presumtion
that you too
have hundreds
of unread
papers
available. </span></div>
</div>
<div class="yiv2857717478">
<div class="yiv2857717478" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Verdana, sans-serif;"> </span></div>
</div>
<div class="yiv2857717478">
<div class="yiv2857717478" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Verdana, sans-serif;">Best,
Al</span></div>
</div>
<div class="yiv2857717478">
<div class="yiv2857717478" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Verdana, sans-serif;"> </span></div>
</div>
<div class="yiv2857717478">
<div class="yiv2857717478" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Verdana, sans-serif;"> </span></div>
</div>
<div class="yiv2857717478">
<div class="yiv2857717478" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Verdana, sans-serif;"> <span class="yiv2857717478Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></div>
<div class="yiv2857717478" style="border-style:none none none solid;border-left-color:rgb(195, 217, 229);border-left-width:1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 8pt;margin:7.5pt 3.75pt 3.75pt 7.5pt;word-wrap:break-word;">
<div class="yiv2857717478" style="margin-bottom:7.5pt;">
<div class="yiv2857717478"><b class="yiv2857717478"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Verdana, sans-serif;">Gesendet:</span></b><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Verdana, sans-serif;"> Freitag,
25. September
2015 um 19:56
Uhr<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
<b class="yiv2857717478">Von:</b> "Mark,
Martin van
der"<span class="yiv2857717478Apple-converted-space"> </span><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv2857717478moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" ymailto="mailto:martin.van.der.mark@philips.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:martin.van.der.mark@philips.com"></a><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv2857717478moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" ymailto="mailto:martin.van.der.mark@philips.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:martin.van.der.mark@philips.com"><martin.van.der.mark@philips.com></a><br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
<b class="yiv2857717478">An:</b> "Nature
of Light and
Particles -
General
Discussion"<span class="yiv2857717478Apple-converted-space"> </span><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv2857717478moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" ymailto="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"><general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org></a><br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
<b class="yiv2857717478">Betreff:</b> Re:
[General]
research
papers</span></div>
</div>
<div class="yiv2857717478">
<div class="yiv2857717478">
<div class="yiv2857717478">
<div class="yiv2857717478"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Verdana, sans-serif;">Al,
just read what
i wrote. It is
not shooting
from the hip.
I am refering
to actual
experiments,
all cited in
the paper i
refered to.
Further, you
are just
repeating what
i said
already. I can
only bring you
to the water,
i cannot make
you drink. And
then you refer
to other
doubtfull
work, as id it
were better.
Good luck.</span></div>
</div>
<div class="yiv2857717478">
<div class="yiv2857717478"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Verdana, sans-serif;">Regards,
Martin<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
Verstuurd
vanaf mijn
iPhone</span></div>
</div>
<div class="yiv2857717478">
<div class="yiv2857717478"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Verdana, sans-serif;"><br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
Op 25 sep.
2015 om 19:16
heeft "<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv2857717478moz-txt-link-abbreviated" ymailto="mailto:af.kracklauer@web.de" target="_blank" href="mailto:af.kracklauer@web.de"></a><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv2857717478moz-txt-link-abbreviated" ymailto="mailto:af.kracklauer@web.de" target="_blank" href="mailto:af.kracklauer@web.de">af.kracklauer@web.de</a>" <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv2857717478moz-txt-link-abbreviated" ymailto="mailto:af.kracklauer@web.de" target="_blank" href="mailto:af.kracklauer@web.de"></a><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv2857717478moz-txt-link-abbreviated" ymailto="mailto:af.kracklauer@web.de" target="_blank" href="mailto:af.kracklauer@web.de">af.kracklauer@web.de</a>> het
volgende
geschreven:<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
</span></div>
</div>
<blockquote class="yiv2857717478" type="cite" style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt;">
<div class="yiv2857717478">
<div class="yiv2857717478">
<div class="yiv2857717478">
<div class="yiv2857717478">
<div class="yiv2857717478" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Verdana, sans-serif;">Dear
Martin,</span></div>
</div>
<div class="yiv2857717478">
<div class="yiv2857717478" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Verdana, sans-serif;"> </span></div>
</div>
<div class="yiv2857717478">
<div class="yiv2857717478" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Verdana, sans-serif;">Perhaps
it's my Texas
background,
but I think I
sense some
"shoot'n from
the hip."</span></div>
</div>
<div class="yiv2857717478">
<div class="yiv2857717478" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Verdana, sans-serif;"> </span></div>
</div>
<div class="yiv2857717478">
<div class="yiv2857717478" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Verdana, sans-serif;">You
have not done
an experiment,
but (at best)
a calculation
based on some
hypothtical
input of your
choise. Maybe
it's good,
maybe not. </span></div>
</div>
<div class="yiv2857717478">
<div class="yiv2857717478" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Verdana, sans-serif;"> </span></div>
</div>
<div class="yiv2857717478">
<div class="yiv2857717478" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Verdana, sans-serif;">The
Sun scatters
as a point
only those
projectiles
that don't get
close. So
far, no
scattering off
electons has
gotten close
enough to
engage any
internal
structure,
"they" say
(I#ll defer to
experts
up-to-date).
Nevertheless,
electrons are
in constant
motion at or
near the speed
of light
(Zitterbewegung)
and therefore
at the time
scales of the
projectiles
buzz around
(zittern) in a
certain amout
of space,
which seems to
me must
manifest
itself as if
there were
spacially
exteneded
structure
within the
scattering
cross-section.
Why not?</span></div>
</div>
<div class="yiv2857717478">
<div class="yiv2857717478" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Verdana, sans-serif;"> </span></div>
</div>
<div class="yiv2857717478">
<div class="yiv2857717478" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Verdana, sans-serif;">Not
to defend
Albrecht's
model as he
describes it,
but many folks
(say Peter
Rowlands at
Liverpool, for
example) model
elemtary
particles in
terms of the
partiicle
itself
interacting
with its
induced
virtual image
(denoted by
Peter as the
"rest of the
universe").
This
"inducement"
is a kind of
polarization
effect. Every
charge repells
all other like
charges and
attracts all
other unlike
charges
resulting in
what can be
modeled as a
virtual charge
of the
opposite
gender
superimposed
on itself in
the static
approximation.
But, because
the real
situation is
fluid, the
virtual
charge's
motion is
delayed as
caused by
finite light
speed, so that
the two chase
each other.
Etc. Looks
something like
Albrecht's
pairs.</span></div>
</div>
<div class="yiv2857717478">
<div class="yiv2857717478" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Verdana, sans-serif;"> </span></div>
</div>
<div class="yiv2857717478">
<div class="yiv2857717478" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Verdana, sans-serif;">I
too havn't
read your 97
paper yet, but
I bet it's
unlikely that
you all took
such
consideration
into account.</span></div>
</div>
<div class="yiv2857717478">
<div class="yiv2857717478" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Verdana, sans-serif;"> </span></div>
</div>
<div class="yiv2857717478">
<div class="yiv2857717478" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Verdana, sans-serif;">Best,
Al </span></div>
</div>
<div class="yiv2857717478">
<div class="yiv2857717478" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Verdana, sans-serif;"> <span class="yiv2857717478Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></div>
<div class="yiv2857717478" style="border-style:none none none solid;border-left-color:rgb(195, 217, 229);border-left-width:1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 8pt;margin:7.5pt 3.75pt 3.75pt 7.5pt;">
<div class="yiv2857717478" style="margin-bottom:7.5pt;">
<div class="yiv2857717478"><b class="yiv2857717478"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Verdana, sans-serif;">Gesendet:</span></b><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Verdana, sans-serif;"> Freitag,
25. September
2015 um 18:44
Uhr<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
<b class="yiv2857717478">Von:</b> "Mark,
Martin van
der" <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv2857717478moz-txt-link-abbreviated" ymailto="mailto:martin.van.der.mark@philips.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:martin.van.der.mark@philips.com"></a><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv2857717478moz-txt-link-abbreviated" ymailto="mailto:martin.van.der.mark@philips.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:martin.van.der.mark@philips.com">martin.van.der.mark@philips.com</a>><br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
<b class="yiv2857717478">An:</b> "Nature
of Light and
Particles -
General
Discussion"
<<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv2857717478moz-txt-link-abbreviated" ymailto="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"></a><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv2857717478moz-txt-link-abbreviated" ymailto="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org">general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>>,
"<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv2857717478moz-txt-link-abbreviated" ymailto="mailto:phys@a-giese.de" target="_blank" href="mailto:phys@a-giese.de"></a><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv2857717478moz-txt-link-abbreviated" ymailto="mailto:phys@a-giese.de" target="_blank" href="mailto:phys@a-giese.de">phys@a-giese.de</a>" <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv2857717478moz-txt-link-abbreviated" ymailto="mailto:phys@a-giese.de" target="_blank" href="mailto:phys@a-giese.de"></a><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv2857717478moz-txt-link-abbreviated" ymailto="mailto:phys@a-giese.de" target="_blank" href="mailto:phys@a-giese.de">phys@a-giese.de</a>><br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
<b class="yiv2857717478">Betreff:</b> Re:
[General]
research
papers</span></div>
</div>
<div class="yiv2857717478">
<div class="yiv2857717478">
<div class="yiv2857717478">
<div class="yiv2857717478" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;color:rgb(31, 73, 125);">Dear
Al, dear
Albrecht, dear
all,</span></div>
<div class="yiv2857717478" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;color:rgb(31, 73, 125);">In
the paper John
W and I
published in
1997, the
situation is
explained
briefly but
adequately.</span></div>
<div class="yiv2857717478" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;color:rgb(31, 73, 125);">Clearly
Albrecht has
not read it
or, perhaps he
did but does
not want to
understand it
because it
really
destroys his
work. This is
a double pity,
of course, but
we are talking
science, not
sentiment, and
I do not want
to take away
anything from
the person you
are Albrecht.</span></div>
<div class="yiv2857717478" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;color:rgb(31, 73, 125);">The
electron has a
finite size,
of the oder of
the Compton
wavelength,
but the
Coulomb
interaction is
perfectly
matched in ANY
experiment,
which means
there are no
internal bits
to the
electron and
that it
behaves as a
point-LIKE
scatterer, not
a to be
mistaken by a
POINT as is
done most of
the time. Note
that even the
sun has
point-like
scattering for
all comets
that go round
it, its
gravitational
field seems to
come from the
centre of the
sun. Until you
hit other
bits. There
are no other
bits for the
electron, but
at very high
energy the
4-momentum
exchange
combined with
the resolving
power at that
high energy
make that a
Compton-size
object CANNOT
be resolved in
principle, if
and only if it
is of
electromagnetic
origin.</span></div>
<div class="yiv2857717478" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;color:rgb(31, 73, 125);">The
electron is a
single thing,
of
electromagnetic
origin only,
there is NO
OTHER WAY to
fit the
experimental
results.</span></div>
<div class="yiv2857717478" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;color:rgb(31, 73, 125);">Well,
maybe there is
another way,
but I cannot
see it.
Certainly it
is not two
parts rotating
about each
other, because
that is
refuted by
experiment,
all those
models can go
in the bin and
are a waste of
time and
energy.</span></div>
<div class="yiv2857717478" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;color:rgb(31, 73, 125);">Regards,
Martin</span></div>
<div class="yiv2857717478" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;color:rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></div>
<div class="yiv2857717478">
<div class="yiv2857717478"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial, sans-serif;color:navy;">Dr.
Martin B. van
der Mark</span></div>
<div class="yiv2857717478"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial, sans-serif;color:navy;">Principal
Scientist,
Minimally
Invasive
Healthcare</span></div>
<div class="yiv2857717478"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;color:navy;"> </span></div>
<div class="yiv2857717478"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial, sans-serif;color:navy;">Philips
Research
Europe -
Eindhoven</span></div>
<div class="yiv2857717478"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial, sans-serif;color:navy;">High
Tech Campus,
Building 34
(WB2.025)</span></div>
<div class="yiv2857717478"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial, sans-serif;color:navy;">Prof.
Holstlaan 4</span></div>
<div class="yiv2857717478"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial, sans-serif;color:navy;">5656
AE Eindhoven,
The
Netherlands</span></div>
<div class="yiv2857717478"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial, sans-serif;color:navy;">Tel:
+31 40 2747548</span></div>
</div>
<div class="yiv2857717478" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;color:rgb(31, 73, 125);"> </span></div>
<div class="yiv2857717478">
<div class="yiv2857717478" style="border-style:solid none none;border-top-color:rgb(181, 196, 223);border-top-width:1pt;padding:3pt 0cm 0cm;">
<div class="yiv2857717478"><b class="yiv2857717478"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma, sans-serif;">From:</span></b><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma, sans-serif;"><span class="yiv2857717478Apple-converted-space"> </span>General [<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv2857717478moz-txt-link-freetext" ymailto="mailto:general-bounces+martin.van.der.mark=philips.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:general-bounces+martin.van.der.mark=philips.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org">mailto:general-bounces+martin.van.der.mark=philips.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>]<span class="yiv2857717478Apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="yiv2857717478">On Behalf Of<span class="yiv2857717478Apple-converted-space"> </span></b><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv2857717478moz-txt-link-abbreviated" ymailto="mailto:af.kracklauer@web.de" target="_blank" href="mailto:af.kracklauer@web.de"></a><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv2857717478moz-txt-link-abbreviated" ymailto="mailto:af.kracklauer@web.de" target="_blank" href="mailto:af.kracklauer@web.de">af.kracklauer@web.de</a><br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
<b class="yiv2857717478">Sent:</b><span class="yiv2857717478Apple-converted-space"> </span>vrijdag 25 september 2015 18:05<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
<b class="yiv2857717478">To:</b><span class="yiv2857717478Apple-converted-space"> </span><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv2857717478" ymailto="mailto:phys@a-giese.de" target="_blank" href="mailto:phys@a-giese.de" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline;">phys@a-giese.de</a>;<span class="yiv2857717478Apple-converted-space"> </span><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv2857717478" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline;" href="">general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a><br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
<b class="yiv2857717478">Cc:</b><span class="yiv2857717478Apple-converted-space"> </span>Nature of Light and Particles -
General
Discussion<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
<b class="yiv2857717478">Subject:</b><span class="yiv2857717478Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [General] research papers</span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="yiv2857717478" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"> </div>
<div class="yiv2857717478">
<div class="yiv2857717478">
<div class="yiv2857717478">
<div class="yiv2857717478" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Verdana, sans-serif;">Gentelmen:</span></div>
</div>
<div class="yiv2857717478">
<div class="yiv2857717478" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Verdana, sans-serif;"> </span></div>
</div>
<div class="yiv2857717478">
<div class="yiv2857717478" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Verdana, sans-serif;">Shouldn't
a clear and
explicit
distinction
between the
"size" of the
electron and
the "extent"
of its
Zitterbewegung
be made. My
best info,
perhaps not
up-to-date, is
that although
scattering
experiments
put an upper
limit on the
size
(10^-19m),
there exists
in fact no
evidence that
the electron
has any finite
size
whatsoever.
This is in
contrast to
the space it
consumes with
its
Zitter-motion,
which is what
would be
calculated
using QM
(Heisenberg
uncertanty
mostly).
Seems to me
that most of
what folks
theorize about
is the latter,
without saying
so, and
perhaps often
without even
recognizing
it. However,
since the
Zitter volumn
will cause
electrons to
be moving
targets, it
must also have
some effect on
its scatering
cross-section
too. I don't
know how this
is sorted out
in scattering
calculations---if
at all.
(Albrectht?)</span></div>
</div>
<div class="yiv2857717478">
<div class="yiv2857717478" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Verdana, sans-serif;"> </span></div>
</div>
<div class="yiv2857717478">
<div class="yiv2857717478" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Verdana, sans-serif;">Correct
me if I'm
wrong. Best,
Al</span></div>
</div>
<div class="yiv2857717478">
<div class="yiv2857717478" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Verdana, sans-serif;"> <span class="yiv2857717478Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></div>
<div class="yiv2857717478" style="border-style:none none none solid;border-left-color:rgb(195, 217, 229);border-left-width:1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 8pt;margin:7.5pt 3.75pt 3.75pt 7.5pt;">
<div class="yiv2857717478" style="margin-bottom:7.5pt;">
<div class="yiv2857717478"><b class="yiv2857717478"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Verdana, sans-serif;">Gesendet:</span></b><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Verdana, sans-serif;"> Freitag,
25. September
2015 um 15:06
Uhr<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
<b class="yiv2857717478">Von:</b> "Dr.
Albrecht
Giese" <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv2857717478moz-txt-link-abbreviated" ymailto="mailto:genmail@a-giese.de" target="_blank" href="mailto:genmail@a-giese.de"></a><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv2857717478moz-txt-link-abbreviated" ymailto="mailto:genmail@a-giese.de" target="_blank" href="mailto:genmail@a-giese.de">genmail@a-giese.de</a>><br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
<b class="yiv2857717478">An:</b> "Richard
Gauthier" <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv2857717478moz-txt-link-abbreviated" ymailto="mailto:richgauthier@gmail.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:richgauthier@gmail.com"></a><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv2857717478moz-txt-link-abbreviated" ymailto="mailto:richgauthier@gmail.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:richgauthier@gmail.com">richgauthier@gmail.com</a>>,<span class="yiv2857717478Apple-converted-space"> </span><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv2857717478moz-txt-link-abbreviated" ymailto="mailto:phys@a-giese.de" target="_blank" href="mailto:phys@a-giese.de">phys@a-giese.de</a><br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
<b class="yiv2857717478">Cc:</b> "Nature
of Light and
Particles -
General
Discussion"
<<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv2857717478moz-txt-link-abbreviated" ymailto="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"></a><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv2857717478moz-txt-link-abbreviated" ymailto="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org">general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>><br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
<b class="yiv2857717478">Betreff:</b> Re:
[General]
research
papers</span></div>
</div>
<div class="yiv2857717478">
<div class="yiv2857717478">
<div class="yiv2857717478"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Verdana, sans-serif;">Hello
Richard,<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
according to
present
mainstream
physics the
size of the
electron is
not more than
10^-19 m. This
is concluded
from
scattering
experiments
where the size
of the
electric
charge is the
quantity of
influence.<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
As present
mainstream
physics
(including the
QED of
Feynman)
assume that
the electron
has no
internal
structure and
that the
electric force
is the only
one effective,
this size is
identified
with the size
of the whole
electron. This
is in severe
conflict with
the
calculations
of Schrödinger
and of Wilczek
based on QM.<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
I have the
impression
that several
of us
(including me)
have models of
the electron
which assume
some extension
roughly
compatible
with the QM
calculations.<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
Some details
of my model
related to
this question:
Here the
electron is
built by 2
sub-particles
("basic
particles")
which orbit
each other at
c. The
electric force
is not the
only force
inside. The
radius
following from
the magnetic
moment is the
reduced
Compton
wavelength,
and the mass
of the
electron
follows with
high precision
from this
radius. At
motion the
size decreases
by the
relativistic
factor gamma,
and so the
mass increases
by this
factor. -
However there
was always a
point of a
certain
weakness in my
model: I could
not prove that
the electron
is built by
just 2
sub-particles
carrying 1/2
elementary
charge each.
Now Wilczek
writes in his
article that
in certain
circumstances
-
superconductivity
in the
presence of a
magnetic field
- the electron
is decomposed
into two
halves. This
is the result
of
measurements.
How can this
happen with a
point-like
particle? This
is a mystery
for Wilczek.
But in the
view of my
model it is no
mystery but
quite
plausible. It
only needs now
a quantitative
calculation of
this process
which I
presently do
not have.<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
All the best
to you<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
Albrecht<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
<span class="yiv2857717478Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></div>
<div class="yiv2857717478">
<div class="yiv2857717478"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Verdana, sans-serif;">Am
23.09.2015 um
19:02 schrieb
Richard
Gauthier:</span></div>
</div>
<blockquote class="yiv2857717478" type="cite" style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt;">
<div class="yiv2857717478">
<div class="yiv2857717478"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Verdana, sans-serif;">Hello
Albrecht,</span></div>
</div>
<div class="yiv2857717478">
<div class="yiv2857717478"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Verdana, sans-serif;">
Yes, all of
our electron
models here
have a radius
related to the
Compton
wavelength.
Dirac’s
zitterbewegung
amplitude is
1/2 of the
reduced
Compton
wavelength, or
hbar/2mc ,
which is the
radius of the
generic
circulating
charged
photon’s
trajectory in
my circulating
spin 1/2
charged photon
model for a
resting
electron. That
radius
decreases by a
factor of
gamma^2 in a
moving
electron. Does
yours?
Incorporating
a more
detailed spin
1/2 charged
photon model
with the
generic model
could bring
the model's
radius up to
the reduced
Compton
wavelength
hbar/mc.</span></div>
</div>
<div class="yiv2857717478">
<div class="yiv2857717478"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Verdana, sans-serif;">
all the
best,</span></div>
</div>
<div class="yiv2857717478">
<div class="yiv2857717478"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Verdana, sans-serif;">
Richard</span></div>
</div>
<div class="yiv2857717478"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Verdana, sans-serif;"> <span class="yiv2857717478Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></div>
<div class="yiv2857717478">
<blockquote class="yiv2857717478" type="cite" style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt;">
<div class="yiv2857717478">
<div class="yiv2857717478"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Verdana, sans-serif;">On
Sep 22, 2015,
at 11:13 AM,
Dr. Albrecht
Giese <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv2857717478moz-txt-link-abbreviated" ymailto="mailto:genmail@a-giese.de" target="_blank" href="mailto:genmail@a-giese.de"></a><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv2857717478moz-txt-link-abbreviated" ymailto="mailto:genmail@a-giese.de" target="_blank" href="mailto:genmail@a-giese.de">genmail@a-giese.de</a>> wrote:</span></div>
</div>
<div class="yiv2857717478"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Verdana, sans-serif;"> <span class="yiv2857717478Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></div>
<div class="yiv2857717478">
<div class="yiv2857717478">
<div class="yiv2857717478"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Verdana, sans-serif;">Dear
Richard,<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
thank you for
this reference
to the article
of Frank
Wilczek.<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
He has a
quantum
mechanical
argument to
determine a
size for the
electron. It
is the
application of
the
uncertainty
relation to
the magnetic
moment of the
electron. The
result is as
you write: 2.4
x 10^-12 m,
which is the
Compton
wavelength of
the electron.<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
This is a bit
similar to the
way as Erwin
Schrödinger
has determined
the size of
the electron
using the
Dirac function
in 1930. There
Schrödinger
determined the
"amplitude of
the
zitterbewegung"
also applying
the
uncertainty
relation to
the rest
energy of the
electron. It
was "roughly"
10^-13 m,
which also
meant in his
words the
Compton
wavelength of
the electron.<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
In my electron
model its
radius is 3.86
x 10^-13 m,
which is
exactly the
"reduced"
Compton
wavelength.
But here it is
not an
expectation
value as in
the cases of
Wilczek and
Schrödinger
but the exact
radius of the
orbits of the
basic
particles.<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
Thank you
again and best
wishes<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
Albrecht<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
<span class="yiv2857717478Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></div>
<div class="yiv2857717478">
<div class="yiv2857717478"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Verdana, sans-serif;">Am
21.09.2015 um
05:01 schrieb
Richard
Gauthier:</span></div>
</div>
<blockquote class="yiv2857717478" type="cite" style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt;">
<div class="yiv2857717478">
<div class="yiv2857717478"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Verdana, sans-serif;">This
2013 Nature
comment “The
enigmatic
electron” by
Frank Wilczek
at <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv2857717478moz-txt-link-freetext" target="_blank" href="http://www.nature.com/articles/498031a.epdf?referrer_access_token=ben9To-3oo1NBniBt2zIw9RgN0jAjWel9jnR3ZoTv0Mr0WZkh3ZGwaOU__QIZA8EEsfyjmdvPM68ya-MFh194zghek6jh7WqtGYeYWmES35o2U71x2DQVk0PFLoHQk5V5M-cak670GmcqKy2iZm7PPrWZKcv_J3SBA-hRXn4VJI1r9NxMvgmKog-topZaM03&tracking_referrer=www.nature.com"></a><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv2857717478moz-txt-link-freetext" target="_blank" href="http://www.nature.com/articles/498031a.epdf?referrer_access_token=ben9To-3oo1NBniBt2zIw9RgN0jAjWel9jnR3ZoTv0Mr0WZkh3ZGwaOU__QIZA8EEsfyjmdvPM68ya-MFh194zghek6jh7WqtGYeYWmES35o2U71x2DQVk0PFLoHQk5V5M-cak670GmcqKy2iZm7PPrWZKcv_J3SBA-hRXn4VJI1r9NxMvgmKog-topZaM03&tracking_referrer=www.nature.com">http://www.nature.com/articles/498031a.epdf?referrer_access_token=ben9To-3oo1NBniBt2zIw9RgN0jAjWel9jnR3ZoTv0Mr0WZkh3ZGwaOU__QIZA8EEsfyjmdvPM68ya-MFh194zghek6jh7WqtGYeYWmES35o2U71x2DQVk0PFLoHQk5V5M-cak670GmcqKy2iZm7PPrWZKcv_J3SBA-hRXn4VJI1r9NxMvgmKog-topZaM03&tracking_referrer=www.nature.com</a> is
worth a look.
He states that
due to QM
effects, the
size of the
electron is
about 2.4 x
10^-12 m,
which is
roughly in the
range of some
of our
electron
models.</span></div>
</div>
<div class="yiv2857717478">
<div class="yiv2857717478"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Verdana, sans-serif;">
Richard</span></div>
</div>
<div class="yiv2857717478"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Verdana, sans-serif;"> <span class="yiv2857717478Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></div>
<div class="yiv2857717478">
<blockquote class="yiv2857717478" type="cite" style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt;">
<div class="yiv2857717478">
<div class="yiv2857717478"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Verdana, sans-serif;">On
Sep 16, 2015,
at 12:59 PM,
Wolfgang Baer
<<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv2857717478moz-txt-link-abbreviated" ymailto="mailto:wolf@nascentinc.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:wolf@nascentinc.com"></a><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv2857717478moz-txt-link-abbreviated" ymailto="mailto:wolf@nascentinc.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:wolf@nascentinc.com">wolf@nascentinc.com</a>> wrote:</span></div>
</div>
<div class="yiv2857717478"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Verdana, sans-serif;"> <span class="yiv2857717478Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></div>
<div class="yiv2857717478">
<div class="yiv2857717478"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Helvetica, sans-serif;background-color:white;">I
should add you
sent me
Main-2014.pdf
and that may
be the one not
available on
the web sight.</span><br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
<span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Helvetica, sans-serif;background-color:white;">I was
looking for a
similar one
that included
the other
topics as
well.</span><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Helvetica, sans-serif;"><br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
<span class="yiv2857717478" style="background-color:white;">If you
do not have
it, its OK, I
just like
reading from
paper.</span><br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
<span class="yiv2857717478" style="background-color:white;">best
wishes,</span><br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
<span class="yiv2857717478" style="background-color:white;">Wolf</span></span><br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
<span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Verdana, sans-serif;"> <span class="yiv2857717478Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></div>
<pre class="yiv2857717478" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:'Courier New';background-color:white;">Dr. Wolfgang Baer</pre>
<pre class="yiv2857717478" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:'Courier New';background-color:white;">Research Director</pre>
<pre class="yiv2857717478" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:'Courier New';background-color:white;">Nascent Systems Inc.</pre>
<pre class="yiv2857717478" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:'Courier New';background-color:white;">tel/fax 831-659-3120/0432</pre>
<pre class="yiv2857717478" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:'Courier New';background-color:white;">E-mail <span class="yiv2857717478" style="color:purple;"><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv2857717478" ymailto="mailto:wolf@NascentInc.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:wolf@NascentInc.com" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline;">wolf@NascentInc.com</a></span></pre>
<div class="yiv2857717478">
<div class="yiv2857717478"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Helvetica, sans-serif;">On
9/14/2015
12:45 PM, Dr.
Albrecht Giese
wrote:</span></div>
</div>
<blockquote class="yiv2857717478" type="cite" style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt;word-spacing:0px;">
<div class="yiv2857717478"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Helvetica, sans-serif;">John,<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
You wrote a
long text, so
I will enter
my answers
within your
text.</span><br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
<span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Helvetica, sans-serif;"> <span class="yiv2857717478Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></div>
<div class="yiv2857717478">
<div class="yiv2857717478"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Helvetica, sans-serif;">Am
14.09.2015 um
02:54 schrieb
John Macken:</span></div>
</div>
<blockquote class="yiv2857717478" type="cite" style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt;">
<div class="yiv2857717478">
<div class="yiv2857717478"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">Hello
David and
Albrecht,</span></div>
</div>
<div class="yiv2857717478">
<div class="yiv2857717478"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span></div>
</div>
<div class="yiv2857717478">
<div class="yiv2857717478"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">It
was through
the contact
with this
group that I
was finally
able to
understand the
disconnect
that existed
between my
idea of vacuum
energy and the
picture that
others were
obtaining from
my use of the
term
“energy”.
Many of the
mysteries of
quantum
mechanics and
general
relativity can
be traced to
the fact that
fields exist
and yet we do
not have a
clear idea of
what they
are. My
answer is that
we live within
a sea of
vacuum
activity which
is the
physical basis
of the
mysterious
fields. I
combine all
fields into a
single
“spacetime
field” which
is the basis
of all
particles,
fields and
forces.<span class="yiv2857717478apple-converted-space"> </span></span></div>
</div>
<div class="yiv2857717478">
<div class="yiv2857717478"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span></div>
</div>
<div class="yiv2857717478">
<div class="yiv2857717478"><b class="yiv2857717478"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">David</span></b><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">,
you asked
about the
words<span class="yiv2857717478apple-converted-space"> </span>quantum,
quantifying
and
quantizing. I
did a word
search and I
did not use
the word
“quantizing”
in either the
email or the
attachment to
my last post.
However, the
paper<span class="yiv2857717478apple-converted-space"> </span><i class="yiv2857717478">Energetic
Spacetime: The
New Aether</i><span class="yiv2857717478apple-converted-space"> </span>submitted to SPIE as part of the
conference
presentation,
used and
defines the
word
“quantization”.
This paper was
attached to
previous
posts, and is
available at
my website: <span class="yiv2857717478apple-converted-space"> </span><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv2857717478" target="_blank" href="http://onlyspacetime.com/" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline;">http://onlyspacetime.com/</a></span></div>
</div>
<div class="yiv2857717478">
<div class="yiv2857717478"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span></div>
</div>
<div class="yiv2857717478">
<div class="yiv2857717478"><b class="yiv2857717478"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">Albrecht</span></b><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">:
I can combine
my answer to
you with the
clarification
for David of
the word
“quantify” and
its
derivatives.
I claim that
my model of
the universe
“quantifies”
particles and
fields. I
will start my
explanation of
this concept
by giving
examples of
models which
do not
“quantify”
particles and
fields. There
have been
numerous
particle
models from
this group and
others which
show an
electron model
as two balls
orbiting
around a
center of
mass. Most of
the group
identifies
these balls as
photons but
Albrecht names
the two balls
“charges of
the strong
force”. Both
photons and
charges of
strong force
are just
words. To be
quantifiable,
it is
necessary to
describe the
model of the
universe which
gives the
strong force
or the
electromagnetic
force. What
exactly are
these? How
much energy
and energy
density does
one charge of
strong force
have? Can a
photon occupy
a volume
smaller than a
reduced
Compton
wavelength in
radius? Does a
muon have the
same basic
strong force
charge but
just rotate
faster? Are
the charges of
strong force
or photons
made of any
other more
basic
component?</span></div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div class="yiv2857717478"><br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
<span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-family:Helvetica, sans-serif;">Regarding
charge: This
is a basic
entity in my
model. At some
point a
physical
theory has to
start. My
model starts
with the
assumption
that a charge
is an "atomic"
entity, so
possibly
point-like,
which emits
exchange
particles (in
this point I
follow the
general
understanding
of QM). There
are two types
of charges:
the electric
ones which we
are very
familiar with,
having two
signs, and the
strong ones,
which are not
so obvious in
everyday
physics; they
also have two
signs. In the
physical
nature we find
the charges of
the strong
force only in
configurations
made of those
different
signs, never
isolated. This
is in contrast
to the
electric
charges.<span class="yiv2857717478apple-converted-space"> </span><br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
The basic
particles are
composed of a
collection of
charges of the
strong force
so that both
basic
particles are
bound to each
other in a way
that they keep
a certain
distance. This
distance
characterizes
an elementary
particle. In
several (or
most) cases
there is
additionally
an electric
charge in the
basic
particle.<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
The two
parameters I
have to set -
or to find -
are the shape
of the strong
field in the
elementary
particle. Here
I have defined
an equation
describing a
minimum
multi-pole
field to make
the elementary
particle
stable. The
other setting
is the
strength of
this field.
This strength
can be found
e.g. using the
electron
because the
electron is
well known and
precisely
measured. This
field is then
applicable for
all leptons as
well as for
all quarks. It
is also
applicable for
the photon
with the
restriction
that there may
be a
correction
factor caused
by the fact
that the
photon is not
fundamental in
the sense of
this model but
composed of
(maybe) two
other
particles.<span class="yiv2857717478apple-converted-space"> </span><br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
The size of
the photon is
(at least
roughly)
described by
its
wavelength.
This follows
from the mass
formula
resulting from
my model, as
with this
assumption the
(dynamic) mass
of the photon
is the correct
result.<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
As I wrote,
the results of
this model are
very precise,
the prove is
in practice
only limited
by limitations
of the
measurement
processes.</span><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Helvetica, sans-serif;"></span></div>
<div class="yiv2857717478">
<div class="yiv2857717478"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span></div>
</div>
<div class="yiv2857717478">
<div class="yiv2857717478"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">I
could go on
with more
questions
until it is
possible to
calculate the
properties of
an electron
from the
answers. So
far both
models lack
any
quantifiable
details except
perhaps a
connection to
the particle’s
Compton
frequency. I
am not
demanding
anything more
than I have
already done.
For example, I
cannot
calculate the
electron’s
Compton
frequency or
the fine
structure
constant.
However, once
I install
these into the
model that I
create, and
combine this
with the
properties of
the spacetime
field, then I
get an
electron.
Installing a
muon’s Compton
frequency
generates a
muon with the
correct
electric
field,
electrostatic
force,
curvature of
spacetime,
gravitational
force and de
Broglie
waves. I am
able to
quantify the
distortion of
spacetime
produced by a
charged
particle, an
electric field
and a photon.
I am able to
test these
models and
show that they
generate both
the correct
energy density
and generate a
black hole
when we reach
the distortion
limits of the
spacetime
field.<span class="yiv2857717478apple-converted-space"> </span></span></div>
</div>
<div class="yiv2857717478"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Helvetica, sans-serif;">In
my model the
Compton
frequency of
the electron
(and of the
other leptons)
follows
directly from
the size of
the particle
and the fact
that the basic
particle move
with c. The
fine structure
constant tells
us the
relation of
the electric
force to the
strong force.
This
explanation
follows very
directly from
this model,
however was
also found by
other
theorists
using algebra
of particle
physics.<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
Another result
of the model
is that
Planck's
constant -
multiplied by
c - is the
field constant
of the strong
force. Also
this is the
result of
other models
(however not
of mainstream
physics).<span class="yiv2857717478Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></div>
<div class="yiv2857717478">
<div class="yiv2857717478"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span></div>
</div>
<div class="yiv2857717478">
<div class="yiv2857717478"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span></div>
</div>
<div class="yiv2857717478">
<div class="yiv2857717478"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">My
model starts
with a
quantifiable
description of
the properties
of spacetime.
The spacetime
model has a
specific
impedance
which
describes the
properties of
waves that can
exist in
spacetime.
Then the
amplitude and
frequency of
the waves in
spacetime is
quantified.
This
combination
allows the
energy density
of spacetime
to be
calculated and
this agrees
with the
energy density
of zero point
energy. The
particle
models are
then defined
as ½<span class="yiv2857717478apple-converted-space"> </span>ħ<span class="yiv2857717478apple-converted-space"> </span>units of quantized angular
momentum
existing in
the spacetime
field. This
model is
quantifiable
as to size,
structure,
energy, etc.
Also the fact
that the rate
of time and
proper volume
is being
modulated, it
is possible to
calculate the
effect that
such a
structure
would have on
the
surrounding
volume of
spacetime. It
is possible to
calculate the
effect if the
spacetime-based
particle model
would have if
the coupling
constant was
equal to 1
(Planck
charge), To
get charge<span class="yiv2857717478apple-converted-space"> </span><i class="yiv2857717478">e</i>, it is necessary
to manually
install the
fine structure
constant. <span class="yiv2857717478apple-converted-space"> </span></span></div>
</div>
<div class="yiv2857717478"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Helvetica, sans-serif;">How
do you get the
value<span class="yiv2857717478apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-family:Helvetica, sans-serif;">½<span class="yiv2857717478apple-converted-space"> </span>ħ</span><span class="yiv2857717478apple-converted-space"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Helvetica, sans-serif;"> </span></span><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Helvetica, sans-serif;">for
the angular
momentum? What
is the
calculation
behind it? - I
understand
that in your
model the
electric
charge is a
parameter
deduced from
other facts.
Which ones?
From alpha?
How do you
then get
alpha?<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
I personally
have in so far
a problem with
all
considerations
using
spacetime as I
have quite
thoroughly
investigated
how Einstein
came to the
idea of this
4-dimentional
construct. His
main
motivation was
that he wanted
in any case to
avoid an
ether. And in
his
discussions
with Ernst
Mach he had to
realize that
he was running
into a lot of
problems with
this
assumption. He
could solve
these problems
in general by
his "curved
spacetime".
But this
concept still
causes logical
conflicts
which are
eagerly
neglected by
the followers
of Einstein's
relativity
(and which do
not exist in
the Lorentzian
way of
relativity).<span class="yiv2857717478Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></div>
<div class="yiv2857717478">
<div class="yiv2857717478"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span></div>
</div>
<div class="yiv2857717478">
<div class="yiv2857717478"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">The
quantifiable
properties of
spacetime
imply that
there should
be boundary
conditions
which imply
that the waves
in spacetime
should be
nonlinear.
When the
nonlinear
component is
calculated and
treated as
separate
waves, the
characteristics
of the
particle’s
gravitational
field are
obtained
(correct:
curvature,
effect on the
rate of time,
force and
energy
density).</span></div>
</div>
<div class="yiv2857717478">
<div class="yiv2857717478"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span></div>
</div>
<div class="yiv2857717478">
<div class="yiv2857717478"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">In
my last post I
have given an
answer about
the factor of
10<sup class="yiv2857717478">120</sup><span class="yiv2857717478apple-converted-space"> </span>difference between the observable
energy density
of the
universe and
the
non-observable
energy of the
universe.
This
non-observable
energy density
is absolutely
necessary for
QED
calculations,
zero point
energy, the
uncertainty
principle,
Lamb shift,
spontaneous
emission and
quantum
mechanics in
general. This
non-observable
energy density
is responsible
for the
tremendously
large
impedance of
spacetime c<sup class="yiv2857717478">3</sup>/G.
Since I can
also show how
this
non-observable
energy density
is obtainable
from
gravitational
wave
equations, it
is necessary
for<span class="yiv2857717478apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="yiv2857717478">you</b><span class="yiv2857717478apple-converted-space"> </span>to show how all these effects can
be achieved
without
spacetime
being a single
field with
this
non-observable
energy
density. In
fact, the name
non-observable
only applied
to direct
observation.
The indirect
evidence is
everywhere.
It forms the
basis of the
universe and
therefore is
the
“background
noise” of the
universe. For
this reason it
is not
directly
observable
because we can
only detect
differences in
energy. The
constants<span class="yiv2857717478apple-converted-space"> </span><i class="yiv2857717478">c,</i><span class="yiv2857717478apple-converted-space"> </span><i class="yiv2857717478">G</i>,<span class="yiv2857717478apple-converted-space"> </span><i class="yiv2857717478">ħ</i><span class="yiv2857717478apple-converted-space"> </span>and<span class="yiv2857717478apple-converted-space"> </span><i class="yiv2857717478">ε<sub class="yiv2857717478">o</sub></i><span class="yiv2857717478apple-converted-space"> </span>testify that spacetime is not an
empty void. <span class="yiv2857717478apple-converted-space"> </span></span></div>
</div>
<div class="yiv2857717478"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Helvetica, sans-serif;">Up
to now I did
not find any
necessity for
zero-point
energy. And I
find it a
dangerous way
to assume
physical facts
which cannot
be observed.
The greatest
argument in
favour of this
energy is its
use in Feynman
diagrams. But
is there
really no
other way? I
have a lecture
of Feynman
here where he
states that
his formalism
has good
results. But
that he has no
physical
understanding
why it is
successful. In
my
understanding
of the
development of
physics this
is a weak
point.<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
The
discrepancy of
10^120 between
assumed and
observed
energy is
taken as a
great and
unresolved
problem by
present main
stream
physics. Those
representatives
would have all
reason to find
a solution to
keep present
QM clean. But
they are not
able to. This
causes me some
concern.<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
The constants
you have
listed: c is
the speed of
light what
ever the
reason for it
is. (I have a
model, but it
is a bit
speculative.)
But it has
nothing to do
with energy. G
is the
gravitational
constant which
is as little
understood as
gravity
itself.
Planck's
constant I
have
explained, it
is (with c)
the field
constant of
the strong
force (any
force has to
be described
by a field
constant); and<span class="yiv2857717478apple-converted-space"> </span></span><i class="yiv2857717478"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-family:Helvetica, sans-serif;">ε<sub class="yiv2857717478">o</sub></span></i><span class="yiv2857717478apple-converted-space"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Helvetica, sans-serif;"> </span></span><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Helvetica, sans-serif;">is
the field
constant of
the electric
force with a
similar
background.<span class="yiv2857717478Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></div>
<div class="yiv2857717478">
<div class="yiv2857717478"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span></div>
</div>
<div class="yiv2857717478">
<div class="yiv2857717478"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span></div>
</div>
<div class="yiv2857717478">
<div class="yiv2857717478"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">If
spacetime was
an empty void,
why should
particles have
a speed limit
of<span class="yiv2857717478apple-converted-space"> </span><i class="yiv2857717478">c</i>?
For a thought
experiment,
suppose that
two spaceships
leave earth
going opposite
directions and
accelerate
until they
reach a speed
of 0.75<span class="yiv2857717478apple-converted-space"> </span><i class="yiv2857717478">c</i><span class="yiv2857717478apple-converted-space"> </span>relative to the earth. The earth
bound observer
sees them
separating at
1.5<span class="yiv2857717478apple-converted-space"> </span><i class="yiv2857717478">c</i><span class="yiv2857717478apple-converted-space"> </span>but the rules of relativistic
addition of
velocity has a
spaceship
observer
seeing the
other
spaceship
moving away at
only 0.96<span class="yiv2857717478apple-converted-space"> </span><i class="yiv2857717478">c</i>. How is this
possible if
spacetime is
an empty
void. My
model of the
universe
answers this
because all
particles,
fields and
forces are
also made of
the spacetime
field and they
combine to
achieve
Lorentz
transformations
which affects
ruler length
and clocks.
None of this
can happen
unless
spacetime is
filled with
dipole waves
in spacetime
and everything
is made of the
single
component.
The universe
is only
spacetime.<span class="yiv2857717478apple-converted-space"> </span></span></div>
</div>
<div class="yiv2857717478"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Helvetica, sans-serif;">If
two spaceships
move at 0.75 c
in opposite
direction, the
observer at
rest may add
these speeds
and may get
1.5 c as a
result. Why
not? If an
observer in
one of the
spaceships
measures the
relative speed
of the other
spaceship, the
result will be
less then c
(as you write
it). The
reason is the
well known
fact that the
measurement
tools
accessible for
the observer
in the ship
are changed
and run
differently at
this high
speed. The
reason for
these changes
is for time
dilation the
internal speed
c in
elementary
particles. For
contraction it
is the
contraction of
fields at
motion which
is a fact
independent of
relativity
(and which was
already known
before
Einstein). In
addition when
the speed of
another object
is to be
measured
several clocks
are to be used
positioned
along the
measurement
section. These
clocks are
de-synchronized
in relation to
the clocks of
the observer
at rest. These
phenomena
together cause
the
measurement
result < c.
You find these
considerations
in papers and
books about
the Lorentzian
interpretation
of relativity.
So, following
Lorentz, there
is no reason
to assume
Einstein's
spacetime.</span><span class="yiv2857717478apple-converted-space"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-family:Helvetica, sans-serif;"> </span></span><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Helvetica, sans-serif;"></span></div>
<div class="yiv2857717478">
<div class="yiv2857717478"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">John
M.</span></div>
</div>
<div class="yiv2857717478"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Helvetica, sans-serif;">Perhaps
I should read
your book. But
that chould
take a lot of
time, I am
afraid.<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
Albrecht<span class="yiv2857717478Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></div>
<div class="yiv2857717478">
<div class="yiv2857717478"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span></div>
</div>
<div class="yiv2857717478">
<div class="yiv2857717478"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span></div>
</div>
<div class="yiv2857717478">
<div class="yiv2857717478" style="border-style:solid none none;border-top-color:rgb(225, 225, 225);border-top-width:1pt;padding:3pt 0cm 0cm;">
<div class="yiv2857717478">
<div class="yiv2857717478"><b class="yiv2857717478"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">From:</span></b><span class="yiv2857717478apple-converted-space"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span></span><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">Dr.
Albrecht Giese
[<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv2857717478moz-txt-link-freetext" ymailto="mailto:genmail@a-giese.de" target="_blank" href="mailto:genmail@a-giese.de"></a><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv2857717478moz-txt-link-freetext" ymailto="mailto:genmail@a-giese.de" target="_blank" href="mailto:genmail@a-giese.de">mailto:genmail@a-giese.de</a>]<span class="yiv2857717478apple-converted-space"> </span><br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
<b class="yiv2857717478">Sent:</b><span class="yiv2857717478apple-converted-space"> </span>Sunday, September 13, 2015 1:43 PM<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
<b class="yiv2857717478">To:</b><span class="yiv2857717478apple-converted-space"> </span>John Macken<span class="yiv2857717478apple-converted-space"> </span><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv2857717478moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" ymailto="mailto:john@macken.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:john@macken.com"></a><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv2857717478moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" ymailto="mailto:john@macken.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:john@macken.com"><john@macken.com></a>;
'Nature of
Light and
Particles -
General
Discussion'<span class="yiv2857717478apple-converted-space"> </span><<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv2857717478" ymailto="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline;">general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>><br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
<b class="yiv2857717478">Subject:</b><span class="yiv2857717478apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [General] research papers</span></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="yiv2857717478">
<div class="yiv2857717478"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span></div>
</div>
<div class="yiv2857717478MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:Cambria;"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">Hello
John,<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
great that you
have looked so
deeply into
the model
which I have
presented.
Thank you.<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
There are some
questions
which I can
answer quite
easily. I
think that
this model in
fact explains
several points
just in
contrast to
main stream
physics. In
standard
physics the
electron (just
as an example)
is a
point-like
object without
any internal
structure. So,
how can a
magnetic
moment be
explained? How
can the spin
be explained?
How can the
mass be
explained? The
position of
main stream
physics is:
That cannot be
explained but
is subject to
quantum
mechanics. And
the fact that
it cannot be
explained
shows how
necessary QM
is.<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
In contrast,
if the
electron is
assumed to
have a
structure like
in the model
presented,
these
parameters can
be explained
in a classical
way, and this
explanation is
not merely a
qualitative
one but has
precise
quantitative
results.<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
To your
questions in
detail:<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
The fact of
two basic
particles is
necessary to
explain the
fact of an
oscillation
and to fulfil
the
conservation
of momentum. A
single object
(as
point-like)
cannot
oscillate. The
basic
particles are
composed of
charges of the
strong force.
In this model
the strong
force is
assumed to be
the universal
force in our
world
effective on
all particles.
A charge is a
fundamental
object in the
scope of this
model. There
are two kinds
of charges
according to
the two kinds
of forces in
our world, the
strong one and
the electric
one. The weak
force is in
fact the
strong force
but has a
smaller
coupling
constant
caused by
geometric
circumstances.
And gravity is
not a force at
all but a
refraction
process, which
is so a side
effect of the
other forces.
And, by the
way, gravity
is not curved
spacetime.
This is not
necessary, and
besides of
this,
Einstein's
spacetime
leads to
logical
conflicts.<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
The forces
(i.e. strong
force) inside
an elementary
particle are
configured in
a way that at
a certain
distance there
is a potential
minimum and in
this way the
distance
between the
basic
particles is
enforced. So,
this field has
attracting and
repulsive
components.
Outside the
elementary
particle the
attracting
forces
dominate to
make the
particle a
stable one.
And those
field parts
outside have
an opposite
sign. Now, as
the basic
particles are
orbiting each
other, the
outside field
is an
alternating
field (of the
strong forth).
If this field
propagates, it
is builds a
wave. This
wave is
described by
the
Schrödinger
equation and
fulfils the
assumptions of
de Broglie.<span class="yiv2857717478apple-converted-space"> </span><br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
With the
assumption of
two basic
particles
orbiting at c
and subject to
strong force,
the parameters
mass, magnetic
moment, spin
result from it
numerically
correctly
without
further
assumptions.<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
This model
does not need
any vacuum
energy or
virtual
particles.
Those are
simply not
necessary and
they are
anyway very
speculative
because not
directly
observable.
And in the
case of the
vacuum energy
of the
universe we
are confronted
with the
discrepancy of
10^120 which
you also
mention in
your paper
attached to
your mail.<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
The Coulomb
law can be
easily
explained by
the assumption
(standard at
quantum
mechanics)
that a force
is realized by
exchange
particles. The
density of
exchange
particles and
so the
strength of
the field
diminishes by
1/r^2, which
is simple
geometry.<span class="yiv2857717478apple-converted-space"> </span><br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
So John, this
is my
position. Now
I am curious
about your
objections of
further
questions.<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
Best regards<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
Albrecht<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
</span></div>
<div class="yiv2857717478">
<div class="yiv2857717478">
<div class="yiv2857717478"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">Am
11.09.2015 um
23:51 schrieb
John Macken:</span></div>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote class="yiv2857717478" type="cite" style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt;">
<div class="yiv2857717478">
<div class="yiv2857717478"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">Hello
Albrecht and
All,</span></div>
</div>
<div class="yiv2857717478">
<div class="yiv2857717478"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span></div>
</div>
<div class="yiv2857717478">
<div class="yiv2857717478"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">I
have attached
a one page
addition that
I will make to
my book. It is
a preliminary
explanation of
my model of
the spacetime
field. It has
been very
helpful to me
to interact
with this
group because
I now
understand
better the key
stumbling
block for some
scientists to
accept my
thesis.
Therefore I
have written
the attached
introduction
to ease the
reader of my
book into my
model. <span class="yiv2857717478apple-converted-space"> </span></span></div>
</div>
<div class="yiv2857717478">
<div class="yiv2857717478"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span></div>
</div>
<div class="yiv2857717478">
<div class="yiv2857717478"><b class="yiv2857717478"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">Albrecht:</span></b><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"> <span class="yiv2857717478apple-converted-space"> </span>I appreciate your email. We agree
on several
points which
include the
size of the
electron and
there is a
similarity in
the
explanation of
gravity. The
key points of
disagreement
are the same
as I have with
the rest of
the group.
Your
explanation of
a fundamental
particle is
not really an
explanation.
You substitute
a fundamental
particle such
as an electron
with two
“basic
particles”.
Have we made
any progress
or did we just
double the
problem? What
is your basic
particles made
of? What is
the physics
behind the
force of
attraction
between the
particles?
What is the
physics behind
an electric
field? How
does your
model create
de Broglie
waves? How
does your
model create a
gravitational
field (curved
spacetime)?
Can you derive
the Coulomb
law and
Newtonian
gravitational
equation from
your model? <span class="yiv2857717478apple-converted-space"> </span></span></div>
</div>
<div class="yiv2857717478">
<div class="yiv2857717478"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span></div>
</div>
<div class="yiv2857717478">
<div class="yiv2857717478"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">These
might seem
like unfair
questions, but
my model does
all of these
things. All it
requires is
the reader
accept the
fact that the
vacuum
possesses
activity which
can be
characterized
as a type of
energy density
that is not
observable (no
rest mass or
momentum).
This is no
different that
accepting that
QED
calculations
should be
believed when
they assume
vacuum energy
or that zero
point energy
really
exists. <span class="yiv2857717478apple-converted-space"> </span></span></div>
</div>
<div class="yiv2857717478">
<div class="yiv2857717478"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span></div>
</div>
<div class="yiv2857717478">
<div class="yiv2857717478"><b class="yiv2857717478"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">Albrecht</span></b><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">,
perhaps I have
come on too
strong, but I
have decided
to take a
firmer stand.
You just
happen to be
the first
person that I
contrast to my
model. I am
actually happy
to discuss the
scientific
details in a
less
confrontational
way. I just
wanted to make
an initial
point.</span></div>
</div>
<div class="yiv2857717478">
<div class="yiv2857717478"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span></div>
</div>
<div class="yiv2857717478">
<div class="yiv2857717478"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">John
M.</span></div>
</div>
<div class="yiv2857717478">
<div class="yiv2857717478"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span></div>
</div>
<div class="yiv2857717478">
<div class="yiv2857717478" style="border-style:solid none none;border-top-color:rgb(225, 225, 225);border-top-width:1pt;padding:3pt 0cm 0cm;">
<div class="yiv2857717478">
<div class="yiv2857717478"><b class="yiv2857717478"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">From:</span></b><span class="yiv2857717478apple-converted-space"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span></span><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">General
[</span><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;color:purple;"><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv2857717478moz-txt-link-freetext" ymailto="mailto:general-bounces+john=macken.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:general-bounces+john=macken.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"></a><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv2857717478moz-txt-link-freetext" ymailto="mailto:general-bounces+john=macken.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:general-bounces+john=macken.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org">mailto:general-bounces+john=macken.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a></span><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">]<span class="yiv2857717478apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="yiv2857717478">On Behalf Of<span class="yiv2857717478apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Dr.
Albrecht Giese<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
<b class="yiv2857717478">Sent:</b><span class="yiv2857717478apple-converted-space"> </span>Friday, September 11, 2015 9:52 AM<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
<b class="yiv2857717478">To:</b><span class="yiv2857717478apple-converted-space"> </span><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv2857717478" ymailto="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline;">general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a><br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
<b class="yiv2857717478">Subject:</b><span class="yiv2857717478apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [General] research papers</span></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="yiv2857717478">
<div class="yiv2857717478"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span></div>
</div>
<div class="yiv2857717478">
<div class="yiv2857717478"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">Dear
John Macken,<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
I would like
to answer a
specific topic
in your mail
below. You
write "...
would have
particular
relevance to
the concept
that the Higgs
field is
needed to give
inertia to
fermions".<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
We should not
overlook that
even
mainstream
physicists
working on
elementary
particles
admit that the
Higgs theory
is not able to
explain
inertia. I
give you as a
reference:<span class="yiv2857717478apple-converted-space"> </span></span></div>
</div>
<div class="yiv2857717478MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:Cambria;"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">>Steven
D. Brass, The
cosmological
constant
puzzle,
Journal of
Physics G,
Nuclear and
Particle
Physics 38,
4(2011)
43201< ,</span></div>
<div class="yiv2857717478MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:Cambria;"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">which
has the result
that the Higgs
field, which
causes inertia
according to
the theory, is
by at least 56
orders of
magnitude too
small to
explain the
mass of the
elementary
particles.
(Another
weakness is
the fact that
the Higgs
theory does
not tell us
the mass of
any elementary
particle even
if all other
parameters are
known.)<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
As you may
remember, in
our meeting I
have presented
a model
explaining
inertia which
does not only
work as a
general idea
but provides
very precise
results for
the mass of
leptons. The
mass is
classically
deduced from
the size of a
particle. It
also explains
the mass of
quarks, but
here the
verification
is more
difficult, due
to the lack of
measurements.
In addition I
have shown
that the model
also explains
the (dynamic)
mass of
photons, if
the size of a
photon is
related to its
wavelength.<span class="yiv2857717478apple-converted-space"> </span><br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
You may find
details in the
proceedings of
our San Diego
meeting, but
also on the
following web
sites:<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
</span><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;color:purple;"><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv2857717478moz-txt-link-abbreviated" target="_blank" href="http://www.ag-physics.org/rmass"></a><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv2857717478moz-txt-link-abbreviated" target="_blank" href="http://www.ag-physics.org/rmass">www.ag-physics.org/rmass</a></span><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"><br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
</span><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;color:purple;"><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv2857717478moz-txt-link-abbreviated" target="_blank" href="http://www.ag-physics.org/electron"></a><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv2857717478moz-txt-link-abbreviated" target="_blank" href="http://www.ag-physics.org/electron">www.ag-physics.org/electron</a></span><span class="yiv2857717478apple-converted-space"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span></span><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">.<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
You may also
find the sites
by Google
search
entering the
string "origin
of mass". You
will find it
on position 1
or 2 of the
list, where it
has constantly
been during
the past 12
years.<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
If you have
any questions
about it,
please ask me.
I will be
happy about
any
discussion.<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
With best
regards<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
Albrecht Giese</span><br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
<span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span></div>
<div class="yiv2857717478">
<div class="yiv2857717478">
<div class="yiv2857717478"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">Am
04.09.2015 um
18:40 schrieb
John Macken:</span></div>
</div>
</div>
<blockquote class="yiv2857717478" type="cite" style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt;">
<div class="yiv2857717478">
<div class="yiv2857717478"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">Martin,</span></div>
</div>
<div class="yiv2857717478">
<div class="yiv2857717478"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span></div>
</div>
<div class="yiv2857717478">
<div class="yiv2857717478"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">I
wanted to
remind you
that I think
that you
should update
your article
“Light Is
Heavy” to
include the
mathematical
proof that
confined light
has exactly
the same
inertia as
particles with
equal energy.
Accelerating a
reflecting box
causes
different
photon
pressure which
results in a
net inertial
force. I
already
reference your
Light Is Heavy
article in my
book, but
expanding the
article would
be even
better. An
expanded
article would
have
particular
relevance to
the concept
that the Higgs
field is
needed to give
inertia to
fermions. The
Higgs field is
not needed to
give inertia
to confined
light.
Furthermore,
confined light
exerts exactly
the correct
inertia and
kinetic
energy, even
at
relativistic
conditions. I
have not seen
a proof that
the Higgs
field gives
exactly the
correct amount
of inertia or
kinetic energy
to fermions.
Any particle
model that
includes
either a
confined
photon or
confined waves
in spacetime
propagating at
the speed of
light gets
inertia and
kinetic energy
from the same
principles as
confined light
in a
reflecting
box.</span></div>
</div>
<div class="yiv2857717478">
<div class="yiv2857717478"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span></div>
</div>
<div class="yiv2857717478">
<div class="yiv2857717478"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">John
M.<span class="yiv2857717478apple-converted-space"> </span></span></div>
</div>
<div class="yiv2857717478">
<div class="yiv2857717478" style="border-style:solid none none;border-top-color:rgb(225, 225, 225);border-top-width:1pt;padding:3pt 0cm 0cm;">
<div class="yiv2857717478">
<div class="yiv2857717478"><b class="yiv2857717478"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">From:</span></b><span class="yiv2857717478apple-converted-space"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span></span><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">General
[</span><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;color:purple;"><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv2857717478moz-txt-link-freetext" ymailto="mailto:general-bounces+john=macken.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:general-bounces+john=macken.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"></a><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv2857717478moz-txt-link-freetext" ymailto="mailto:general-bounces+john=macken.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:general-bounces+john=macken.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org">mailto:general-bounces+john=macken.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a></span><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">]<span class="yiv2857717478apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="yiv2857717478">On Behalf Of<span class="yiv2857717478apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Mark,
Martin van der<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
<b class="yiv2857717478">Sent:</b><span class="yiv2857717478apple-converted-space"> </span>Friday, September 04, 2015 6:34 AM<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
<b class="yiv2857717478">To:</b><span class="yiv2857717478apple-converted-space"> </span>Nature of Light and Particles -
General
Discussion<span class="yiv2857717478apple-converted-space"> </span><<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv2857717478" ymailto="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline;">general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>><br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
<b class="yiv2857717478">Subject:</b><span class="yiv2857717478apple-converted-space"> </span>[General] research papers</span></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="yiv2857717478">
<div class="yiv2857717478"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span></div>
</div>
<div class="yiv2857717478MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:Cambria;"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;color:rgb(31, 73, 125);">Dear
all,</span></div>
<div class="yiv2857717478MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:Cambria;"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;color:rgb(31, 73, 125);">My
recent (and
old) work can
be found on
Researchgate:</span></div>
<div class="yiv2857717478MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:Cambria;"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;color:rgb(31, 73, 125);"><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv2857717478" target="_blank" href="https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Martin_Van_der_Mark/publications" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline;"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="color:purple;"></span></a><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv2857717478moz-txt-link-freetext" target="_blank" href="https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Martin_Van_der_Mark/publications"></a><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv2857717478moz-txt-link-freetext" target="_blank" href="https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Martin_Van_der_Mark/publications">https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Martin_Van_der_Mark/publications</a></span></div>
<div class="yiv2857717478MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:Cambria;"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;color:rgb(31, 73, 125);">In
particular you
will find the
most recent
work:</span></div>
<ul class="yiv2857717478" style="margin-bottom:0cm;" type="disc"><li class="yiv2857717478MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:Cambria;"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">On
the nature of
“stuff” and
the hierarchy
of forces</span><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Verdana, sans-serif;"></span></li><li class="yiv2857717478MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:Cambria;"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;">Quantum
mechanical
probability
current as
electromagnetic
4-current from
topological EM
fields</span><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Verdana, sans-serif;"></span></li></ul>
<div class="yiv2857717478MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:Cambria;"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;color:rgb(31, 73, 125);">Very
best regards,</span></div>
<div class="yiv2857717478MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:Cambria;"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;color:rgb(31, 73, 125);">Martin</span></div>
<div class="yiv2857717478">
<div class="yiv2857717478"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span></div>
</div>
<div class="yiv2857717478">
<div class="yiv2857717478"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial, sans-serif;color:navy;">Dr.
Martin B. van
der Mark</span></div>
</div>
<div class="yiv2857717478">
<div class="yiv2857717478"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial, sans-serif;color:navy;">Principal
Scientist,
Minimally
Invasive
Healthcare</span></div>
</div>
<div class="yiv2857717478">
<div class="yiv2857717478"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;color:navy;"> </span></div>
</div>
<div class="yiv2857717478">
<div class="yiv2857717478"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial, sans-serif;color:navy;">Philips
Research
Europe -
Eindhoven</span></div>
</div>
<div class="yiv2857717478">
<div class="yiv2857717478"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial, sans-serif;color:navy;">High
Tech Campus,
Building 34
(WB2.025)</span></div>
</div>
<div class="yiv2857717478">
<div class="yiv2857717478"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial, sans-serif;color:navy;">Prof.
Holstlaan 4</span></div>
</div>
<div class="yiv2857717478">
<div class="yiv2857717478"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial, sans-serif;color:navy;">5656
AE Eindhoven,
The
Netherlands</span></div>
</div>
<div class="yiv2857717478">
<div class="yiv2857717478"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Arial, sans-serif;color:navy;">Tel:
+31 40 2747548</span></div>
</div>
<div class="yiv2857717478">
<div class="yiv2857717478"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span></div>
</div>
<div class="yiv2857717478">
<div class="yiv2857717478"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span></div>
</div>
<div align="center" class="yiv2857717478MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:Cambria;"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Verdana, sans-serif;">
</span><hr align="center" class="yiv2857717478" size="3" width="100%"></div>
<div class="yiv2857717478">
<div class="yiv2857717478"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Arial, sans-serif;color:gray;">The
information
contained in
this message
may be
confidential
and legally
protected
under
applicable
law. The
message is
intended
solely for the
addressee(s).
If you are not
the intended
recipient, you
are hereby
notified that
any use,
forwarding,
dissemination,
or
reproduction
of this
message is
strictly
prohibited and
may be
unlawful. If
you are not
the intended
recipient,
please contact
the sender by
return e-mail
and destroy
all copies of
the original
message.</span></div>
</div>
<div class="yiv2857717478">
<div class="yiv2857717478"><br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
<span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span></div>
</div>
<pre class="yiv2857717478" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:'Courier New';background-color:white;">_______________________________________________</pre>
<pre class="yiv2857717478" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:'Courier New';background-color:white;">If you no longer wish to receive communication from the Nature of Light and Particles General Discussion List at <span class="yiv2857717478" style="color:purple;"><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv2857717478" ymailto="mailto:phys@a-giese.de" target="_blank" href="mailto:phys@a-giese.de" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline;">phys@a-giese.de</a></span></pre>
<pre class="yiv2857717478" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:'Courier New';background-color:white;"><a href=<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv2857717478" target="_blank" href="http://lists.natureoflightandparticles.org/options.cgi/general-natureoflightandparticles.org/phys%40a-giese.de?unsub=1&unsubconfirm=1" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline;"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="color:purple;">"http://lists.natureoflightandparticles.org/options.cgi/general-natureoflightandparticles.org/phys%40a-giese.de?unsub=1&unsubconfirm=1"</span></a>></pre>
<pre class="yiv2857717478" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:'Courier New';background-color:white;">Click here to unsubscribe</pre>
<pre class="yiv2857717478" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:'Courier New';background-color:white;"></a></pre>
</blockquote>
<div class="yiv2857717478MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:Cambria;"><br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
<span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span></div>
<div align="center" class="yiv2857717478MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:Cambria;"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Verdana, sans-serif;">
</span><hr align="center" noshade="class="yiv2857717478"" style="color:rgb(144, 144, 144);" size="1" width="99%"></div>
<table class="yiv2857717478MsoNormalTable" style="border-collapse:collapse;" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tbody class="yiv2857717478"><tr class="yiv2857717478"><td colspan="1" rowspan="1" class="yiv2857717478" style="padding:0cm 11.25pt 0cm 6pt;">
<div class="yiv2857717478">
<div class="yiv2857717478"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv2857717478" target="_blank" href="https://www.avast.com/antivirus" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline;"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="color:purple;border:1pt solid windowtext;padding:0cm;text-decoration:none;"><Mail
Attachment.jpeg></span></a></span></div>
</div>
</td><td colspan="1" rowspan="1" class="yiv2857717478" style="padding:0.75pt;">
<div class="yiv2857717478" style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;color:rgb(61, 77, 90);">Diese
E-Mail wurde
von Avast
Antivirus-Software
auf Viren
geprüft.<span class="yiv2857717478apple-converted-space"> </span><br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
</span><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;color:purple;"><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv2857717478moz-txt-link-abbreviated" target="_blank" href="http://www.avast.com/"></a><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv2857717478moz-txt-link-abbreviated" target="_blank" href="http://www.avast.com/">www.avast.com</a></span></div>
</td></tr></tbody></table>
<div class="yiv2857717478">
<div class="yiv2857717478"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span></div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div class="yiv2857717478MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:Cambria;"><br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
<span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span></div>
<div align="center" class="yiv2857717478MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:Cambria;"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Verdana, sans-serif;">
</span><hr align="center" noshade="class="yiv2857717478"" style="color:rgb(144, 144, 144);" size="1" width="99%"></div>
<table class="yiv2857717478MsoNormalTable" style="border-collapse:collapse;" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tbody class="yiv2857717478"><tr class="yiv2857717478"><td colspan="1" rowspan="1" class="yiv2857717478" style="padding:0cm 11.25pt 0cm 6pt;">
<div class="yiv2857717478">
<div class="yiv2857717478"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv2857717478" target="_blank" href="https://www.avast.com/antivirus" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline;"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="color:purple;border:1pt solid windowtext;padding:0cm;text-decoration:none;"><Mail
Attachment.jpeg></span></a></span></div>
</div>
</td><td colspan="1" rowspan="1" class="yiv2857717478" style="padding:0.75pt;">
<div class="yiv2857717478" style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;color:rgb(61, 77, 90);">Diese
E-Mail wurde
von Avast
Antivirus-Software
auf Viren
geprüft.<span class="yiv2857717478apple-converted-space"> </span><br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
</span><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;color:purple;"><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv2857717478moz-txt-link-abbreviated" target="_blank" href="http://www.avast.com/"></a><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv2857717478moz-txt-link-abbreviated" target="_blank" href="http://www.avast.com/">www.avast.com</a></span></div>
</td></tr></tbody></table>
<div class="yiv2857717478">
<div class="yiv2857717478"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;"> </span></div>
</div>
<div class="yiv2857717478"><br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
<span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Helvetica, sans-serif;"> <span class="yiv2857717478Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></div>
<div align="center" class="yiv2857717478MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:Cambria;"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Verdana, sans-serif;">
</span><hr align="center" noshade="class="yiv2857717478"" style="width:960.05pt;" size="1" width="1280"></div>
<table class="yiv2857717478MsoNormalTable" style="border-collapse:collapse;" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tbody class="yiv2857717478"><tr class="yiv2857717478"><td colspan="1" rowspan="1" class="yiv2857717478" style="padding:0cm 11.25pt 0cm 6pt;">
<div class="yiv2857717478"><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv2857717478" target="_blank" href="https://www.avast.com/antivirus" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline;"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="color:purple;text-decoration:none;"><img class="yiv2857717478" id="yiv2857717478_x0000_i1029" src="http://static.avast.com/emails/avast-mail-stamp.png" alt="Avast logo" border="0" data-id="0f165bb2-5b87-cd1e-7994-2399e2f1faf1"></span></a></div>
</td><td colspan="1" rowspan="1" class="yiv2857717478" style="padding:0.75pt;">
<div class="yiv2857717478" style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;color:rgb(61, 77, 90);">Diese
E-Mail wurde
von Avast
Antivirus-Software
auf Viren
geprüft.<span class="yiv2857717478apple-converted-space"> </span><br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
</span><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;color:purple;"><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv2857717478moz-txt-link-abbreviated" target="_blank" href="http://www.avast.com/"></a><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv2857717478moz-txt-link-abbreviated" target="_blank" href="http://www.avast.com/">www.avast.com</a></span></div>
</td></tr></tbody></table>
<div class="yiv2857717478"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Helvetica, sans-serif;">
<span class="yiv2857717478Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></div>
<pre class="yiv2857717478" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:'Courier New';background-color:white;">_______________________________________________</pre>
<pre class="yiv2857717478" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:'Courier New';background-color:white;">If you no longer wish to receive communication from the Nature of Light and Particles General Discussion List at <span class="yiv2857717478" style="color:purple;"><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv2857717478" ymailto="mailto:Wolf@nascentinc.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:Wolf@nascentinc.com" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline;">Wolf@nascentinc.com</a></span></pre>
<pre class="yiv2857717478" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:'Courier New';background-color:white;"><a href=<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv2857717478" target="_blank" href="http://lists.natureoflightandparticles.org/options.cgi/general-natureoflightandparticles.org/wolf%40nascentinc.com?unsub=1&unsubconfirm=1" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline;"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="color:purple;">"http://lists.natureoflightandparticles.org/options.cgi/general-natureoflightandparticles.org/wolf%40nascentinc.com?unsub=1&unsubconfirm=1"</span></a>></pre>
<pre class="yiv2857717478" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:'Courier New';background-color:white;">Click here to unsubscribe</pre>
<pre class="yiv2857717478" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:'Courier New';background-color:white;"></a></pre>
</blockquote>
<div class="yiv2857717478"><br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
<span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Helvetica, sans-serif;background-color:white;">_______________________________________________</span><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Helvetica, sans-serif;"><br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
<span class="yiv2857717478" style="background-color:white;">If you
no longer wish
to receive
communication
from the
Nature of
Light and
Particles
General
Discussion
List at<span class="yiv2857717478apple-converted-space"> </span></span></span><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Verdana, sans-serif;"><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv2857717478moz-txt-link-abbreviated" ymailto="mailto:richgauthier@gmail.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:richgauthier@gmail.com"></a><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv2857717478moz-txt-link-abbreviated" ymailto="mailto:richgauthier@gmail.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:richgauthier@gmail.com">richgauthier@gmail.com</a></span><br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
<span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Helvetica, sans-serif;background-color:white;"><a
href="</span><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Verdana, sans-serif;"><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv2857717478moz-txt-link-freetext" target="_blank" href="http://lists.natureoflightandparticles.org/options.cgi/general-natureoflightandparticles.org/richgauthier%40gmail.com?unsub=1&unsubconfirm=1"></a><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv2857717478moz-txt-link-freetext" target="_blank" href="http://lists.natureoflightandparticles.org/options.cgi/general-natureoflightandparticles.org/richgauthier%40gmail.com?unsub=1&unsubconfirm=1">http://lists.natureoflightandparticles.org/options.cgi/general-natureoflightandparticles.org/richgauthier%40gmail.com?unsub=1&unsubconfirm=1</a></span><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Helvetica, sans-serif;background-color:white;">"></span><br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
<span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Helvetica, sans-serif;background-color:white;">Click
here to
unsubscribe</span><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Helvetica, sans-serif;"><br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
<span class="yiv2857717478" style="background-color:white;"></a></span></span></div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div class="yiv2857717478"><br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
<span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Verdana, sans-serif;"> <span class="yiv2857717478Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></div>
<div align="center" class="yiv2857717478MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:Cambria;"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Verdana, sans-serif;">
</span><hr align="center" noshade="class="yiv2857717478"" style="color:rgb(144, 144, 144);" size="1" width="99%"></div>
<table class="yiv2857717478MsoNormalTable" style="border-collapse:collapse;" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tbody class="yiv2857717478"><tr class="yiv2857717478"><td colspan="1" rowspan="1" class="yiv2857717478" style="padding:0cm 11.25pt 0cm 6pt;">
<div class="yiv2857717478"><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv2857717478" target="_blank" href="https://www.avast.com/antivirus" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline;"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="text-decoration:none;"><img class="yiv2857717478" id="yiv2857717478_x0000_i1031" src="http://static.avast.com/emails/avast-mail-stamp.png" alt="Avast logo" border="0" data-id="754f4220-95a3-a07d-b21b-fdcd358d1911"></span></a></div>
</td><td colspan="1" rowspan="1" class="yiv2857717478" style="padding:0.75pt;">
<div class="yiv2857717478" style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;color:rgb(61, 77, 90);">Diese
E-Mail wurde
von Avast
Antivirus-Software
auf Viren
geprüft.<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv2857717478moz-txt-link-abbreviated" target="_blank" href="http://www.avast.com/"></a><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv2857717478moz-txt-link-abbreviated" target="_blank" href="http://www.avast.com/">www.avast.com</a></span></div>
</td></tr></tbody></table>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div class="yiv2857717478"><br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
<span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Verdana, sans-serif;"> <span class="yiv2857717478Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></div>
<div align="center" class="yiv2857717478MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 10pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:Cambria;"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Verdana, sans-serif;">
</span><hr align="center" noshade="class="yiv2857717478"" style="color:rgb(144, 144, 144);" size="1" width="99%"></div>
<table class="yiv2857717478MsoNormalTable" style="border-collapse:collapse;" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tbody class="yiv2857717478"><tr class="yiv2857717478"><td colspan="1" rowspan="1" class="yiv2857717478" style="padding:0cm 11.25pt 0cm 6pt;">
<div class="yiv2857717478"><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv2857717478" target="_blank" href="https://www.avast.com/antivirus" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline;"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="text-decoration:none;"><img class="yiv2857717478" id="yiv2857717478_x0000_i1033" src="http://static.avast.com/emails/avast-mail-stamp.png" alt="Avast logo" border="0" data-id="7a203001-550d-e903-bf02-c6e561949c9e"></span></a></div>
</td><td colspan="1" rowspan="1" class="yiv2857717478" style="padding:0.75pt;">
<div class="yiv2857717478" style="margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px;"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-family:Calibri, sans-serif;color:rgb(61, 77, 90);">Diese
E-Mail wurde
von Avast
Antivirus-Software
auf Viren
geprüft.<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv2857717478moz-txt-link-abbreviated" target="_blank" href="http://www.avast.com/"></a><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv2857717478moz-txt-link-abbreviated" target="_blank" href="http://www.avast.com/">www.avast.com</a></span></div>
</td></tr></tbody></table>
<div class="yiv2857717478"><br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
<span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Verdana, sans-serif;">_______________________________________________
If you no
longer wish to
receive
communication
from the
Nature of
Light and
Particles
General
Discussion
List at<span class="yiv2857717478Apple-converted-space"> </span><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv2857717478moz-txt-link-abbreviated" ymailto="mailto:af.kracklauer@web.de" target="_blank" href="mailto:af.kracklauer@web.de"></a><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv2857717478moz-txt-link-abbreviated" ymailto="mailto:af.kracklauer@web.de" target="_blank" href="mailto:af.kracklauer@web.de">af.kracklauer@web.de</a><span class="yiv2857717478Apple-converted-space"> </span><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv2857717478" target="_blank" href="http://lists.natureoflightandparticles.org/options.cgi/general-natureoflightandparticles.org/af.kracklauer%40web.de?unsub=1&unsubconfirm=1" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline;">Click
here to
unsubscribe<span class="yiv2857717478Apple-converted-space"> </span></a></span></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="yiv2857717478"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Verdana, sans-serif;">_______________________________________________
If you no
longer wish to
receive
communication
from the
Nature of
Light and
Particles
General
Discussion
List at<span class="yiv2857717478Apple-converted-space"> </span><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv2857717478moz-txt-link-abbreviated" ymailto="mailto:af.kracklauer@web.de" target="_blank" href="mailto:af.kracklauer@web.de"></a><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv2857717478moz-txt-link-abbreviated" ymailto="mailto:af.kracklauer@web.de" target="_blank" href="mailto:af.kracklauer@web.de">af.kracklauer@web.de</a><span class="yiv2857717478Apple-converted-space"> </span><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv2857717478" target="_blank" href="http://lists.natureoflightandparticles.org/options.cgi/general-natureoflightandparticles.org/af.kracklauer%40web.de?unsub=1&unsubconfirm=1" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline;">Click
here to
unsubscribe<span class="yiv2857717478Apple-converted-space"> </span></a></span></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote class="yiv2857717478" type="cite" style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt;">
<div class="yiv2857717478">
<div class="yiv2857717478"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Verdana, sans-serif;">_______________________________________________<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
If you no
longer wish to
receive
communication
from the
Nature of
Light and
Particles
General
Discussion
List at<span class="yiv2857717478Apple-converted-space"> </span><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv2857717478moz-txt-link-abbreviated" ymailto="mailto:martin.van.der.mark@philips.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:martin.van.der.mark@philips.com"></a><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv2857717478moz-txt-link-abbreviated" ymailto="mailto:martin.van.der.mark@philips.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:martin.van.der.mark@philips.com">martin.van.der.mark@philips.com</a><br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
<a href="<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv2857717478moz-txt-link-freetext" target="_blank" href="http://lists.natureoflightandparticles.org/options.cgi/general-natureoflightandparticles.org/martin.van.der.mark%40philips.com?unsub=1&unsubconfirm=1"></a><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv2857717478moz-txt-link-freetext" target="_blank" href="http://lists.natureoflightandparticles.org/options.cgi/general-natureoflightandparticles.org/martin.van.der.mark%40philips.com?unsub=1&unsubconfirm=1">http://lists.natureoflightandparticles.org/options.cgi/general-natureoflightandparticles.org/martin.van.der.mark%40philips.com?unsub=1&unsubconfirm=1</a>"><br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
Click here to
unsubscribe<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
</a></span></div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div class="yiv2857717478"><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-size:9pt;font-family:Verdana, sans-serif;">_______________________________________________
If you no
longer wish to
receive
communication
from the
Nature of
Light and
Particles
General
Discussion
List at<span class="yiv2857717478Apple-converted-space"> </span><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv2857717478moz-txt-link-abbreviated" ymailto="mailto:af.kracklauer@web.de" target="_blank" href="mailto:af.kracklauer@web.de"></a><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv2857717478moz-txt-link-abbreviated" ymailto="mailto:af.kracklauer@web.de" target="_blank" href="mailto:af.kracklauer@web.de">af.kracklauer@web.de</a><span class="yiv2857717478Apple-converted-space"> </span><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv2857717478" target="_blank" href="http://lists.natureoflightandparticles.org/options.cgi/general-natureoflightandparticles.org/af.kracklauer%40web.de?unsub=1&unsubconfirm=1" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline;">Click
here to
unsubscribe<span class="yiv2857717478Apple-converted-space"> </span></a></span></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="yiv2857717478" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"><br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
</div>
<pre class="yiv2857717478" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:'Courier New';">_______________________________________________</pre>
<pre class="yiv2857717478" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:'Courier New';">If you no longer wish to receive communication from the Nature of Light and Particles General Discussion List at <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv2857717478" ymailto="mailto:phys@a-giese.de" target="_blank" href="mailto:phys@a-giese.de" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline;">phys@a-giese.de</a></pre>
<pre class="yiv2857717478" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:'Courier New';"><a href=<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv2857717478" target="_blank" href="http://lists.natureoflightandparticles.org/options.cgi/general-natureoflightandparticles.org/phys%40a-giese.de?unsub=1&unsubconfirm=1" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline;">"http://lists.natureoflightandparticles.org/options.cgi/general-natureoflightandparticles.org/phys%40a-giese.de?unsub=1&unsubconfirm=1"</a>></pre>
<pre class="yiv2857717478" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:'Courier New';">Click here to unsubscribe</pre>
<pre class="yiv2857717478" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:10pt;font-family:'Courier New';"></a></pre>
</blockquote>
<div class="yiv2857717478" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:'Times New Roman', serif;"> </div>
</div>
<span class="yiv2857717478"><electron.pdf></span><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255);float:none;display:inline;">_______________________________________________</span><br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478" style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255);">
<span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255);float:none;display:inline;">If
you no longer
wish to
receive
communication
from the
Nature of
Light and
Particles
General
Discussion
List at<span class="yiv2857717478Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv2857717478moz-txt-link-abbreviated" ymailto="mailto:richgauthier@gmail.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:richgauthier@gmail.com"></a><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv2857717478moz-txt-link-abbreviated" ymailto="mailto:richgauthier@gmail.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:richgauthier@gmail.com">richgauthier@gmail.com</a><br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478" style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255);">
<span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255);float:none;display:inline;"><a
href="</span><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv2857717478moz-txt-link-freetext" target="_blank" href="http://lists.natureoflightandparticles.org/options.cgi/general-natureoflightandparticles.org/richgauthier%40gmail.com?unsub=1&unsubconfirm=1"></a><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv2857717478moz-txt-link-freetext" target="_blank" href="http://lists.natureoflightandparticles.org/options.cgi/general-natureoflightandparticles.org/richgauthier%40gmail.com?unsub=1&unsubconfirm=1">http://lists.natureoflightandparticles.org/options.cgi/general-natureoflightandparticles.org/richgauthier%40gmail.com?unsub=1&unsubconfirm=1</a><span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255);float:none;display:inline;">"></span><br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478" style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255);">
<span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255);float:none;display:inline;">Click
here to
unsubscribe</span><br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478" style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255);">
<span class="yiv2857717478" style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255);float:none;display:inline;"></a></span><br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478" style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255);">
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
</blockquote>
<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478Apple-interchange-newline">
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
</div>
<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
</blockquote>
<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
<br clear="none" class="yiv2857717478">
<br clear="none">
</div></div></div><br><div class="yqt6255097049" id="yqt44624">_______________________________________________<br clear="none">If you no longer wish to receive communication from the Nature of Light and Particles General Discussion List at <a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:davidmathes8@yahoo.com" href="mailto:davidmathes8@yahoo.com">davidmathes8@yahoo.com</a><br clear="none"><a href="<a shape="rect" href="http://lists.natureoflightandparticles.org/options.cgi/general-natureoflightandparticles.org/davidmathes8%40yahoo.com?unsub=1&unsubconfirm=1" target="_blank">http://lists.natureoflightandparticles.org/options.cgi/general-natureoflightandparticles.org/davidmathes8%40yahoo.com?unsub=1&unsubconfirm=1</a>"><br clear="none">Click here to unsubscribe<br clear="none"></a><br clear="none"></div><br><br></div> </div> </div> </blockquote> </div></body></html>