<html dir="ltr">
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=Windows-1252">
<style id="owaParaStyle" type="text/css"></style>
</head>
<body ocsi="0" fpstyle="1">
<div style="direction: ltr;font-family: Tahoma;color: #000000;font-size: 10pt;"><style>
<!--
/* Font Definitions */
@font-face
{font-family:Times;
panose-1:2 0 5 0 0 0 0 0 0 0;
mso-font-charset:0;
mso-generic-font-family:auto;
mso-font-pitch:variable;
mso-font-signature:3 0 0 0 1 0;}
@font-face
{font-family:"MS ??";
mso-font-charset:78;
mso-generic-font-family:auto;
mso-font-pitch:variable;
mso-font-signature:1 134676480 16 0 131072 0;}
@font-face
{font-family:"Cambria Math";
panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;
mso-font-charset:0;
mso-generic-font-family:auto;
mso-font-pitch:variable;
mso-font-signature:-536870145 1107305727 0 0 415 0;}
@font-face
{font-family:Cambria;
panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;
mso-font-charset:0;
mso-generic-font-family:auto;
mso-font-pitch:variable;
mso-font-signature:-536870145 1073743103 0 0 415 0;}
/* Style Definitions */
p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal
{mso-style-unhide:no;
mso-style-qformat:yes;
mso-style-parent:"";
margin:0cm;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
mso-pagination:widow-orphan;
font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:Cambria;
mso-ascii-font-family:Cambria;
mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin;
mso-fareast-font-family:"MS ??";
mso-fareast-theme-font:minor-fareast;
mso-hansi-font-family:Cambria;
mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin;
mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";
mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-bidi;
mso-ansi-language:EN-US;}
.MsoChpDefault
{mso-style-type:export-only;
mso-default-props:yes;
font-family:Cambria;
mso-ascii-font-family:Cambria;
mso-ascii-theme-font:minor-latin;
mso-fareast-font-family:"MS ??";
mso-fareast-theme-font:minor-fareast;
mso-hansi-font-family:Cambria;
mso-hansi-theme-font:minor-latin;
mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman";
mso-bidi-theme-font:minor-bidi;
mso-ansi-language:EN-US;}
@page WordSection1
{size:595.0pt 842.0pt;
margin:72.0pt 90.0pt 72.0pt 90.0pt;
mso-header-margin:35.4pt;
mso-footer-margin:35.4pt;
mso-paper-source:0;}
div.WordSection1
{page:WordSection1;}
-->
</style>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";mso-bidi-font-family:
"Times New Roman"" lang="EN-US">Dear David and Martin,<br>
<br>
Please do not misunderstand one another. I like and respect both of you. I have learned so much from both of you. Please do not fall out.
<br>
<br>
Martin - you cannot consider David recalcitrant for revealing that he does not understand charge. You and I may have been discussing this for a couple of decades, but our view is not "common knowledge". You cannot point to a textbook where the underlying nature
of quantised charge is laid bare and say “read all about it”.<br>
<br>
David, Martin is getting upset because he keeps saying that one cannot produce charge from an uncharged photon and you keep asking "ok how does one get charge from an uncharged photon then?" Over and over. After a while he just goes mad. He cannot help it.
Look back and read the posts. You will see what I mean. You may think that is what we were saying in our paper “Is the electron a localized photon?”. Most readers will agree with you. Martin and I will not. The operative words which distinguish these standpoints
(in the old work) are “localized” and “topology”.<br>
<br>
Martin, David is not in the minority here - it is you and I. Nearly all the world thinks, at the moment, that there is no way the "electron is a localised photon" precisely BECAUSE the photon is uncharged. Deal with it! Richard tries to get round this by proposing
it is charged (then removing the possibility of saying what charge actually is in my view then). Despite my view, this helps a lot of folk into thinking that electron and photon may be the same thing. Not the right path, for me, but more acceptable to many
at first meeting.<br>
<br>
Now as to quarks, glueballs and to Laughlin theory.<br>
<br>
Quarks. Have not been measured to have fractional charge though this is now taken to be "common knowledge". On the contrary.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span style="mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";mso-bidi-font-family:
"Times New Roman"" lang="EN-US">Ok, so how do you know smarty-pants? It is because it was me. In the
best and highest statistics deep inelastic scattering experiment to date. It was me. I did the reconstruction, analysed the (huge) dataset, subtracted the lepton from antilepton cross sections (it appears in the difference between these). The results were
not widely published - because they could not distinguish the (fractional) quark charge from so called, integrally charged, Han-Nambu quarks. The results are (only) in my doctoral Thesis. This is a very hard experiment - and has not yet been repeated as the
lepton beamline was soon taken down thereafter to make way for the SPS (now the LHC). Quarks are taken to be fractional only because this fits the SU(3) of flavor theory most simply. The SU(3) of colour (gluon) theory does not need this – as one may assign
any arbitrary charge to the gluons as well.<br>
<br>
Laughlin theory. I know all (well, quite a lot!) about this too. I have, personally, measured the fractional QHE and also have a lot of papers about this. Many take this as being a theory of fractionally charged quasi particles. Not so. It is a mixed state
of electron and magnetic field (quantized magnetic flux – read the papers!) - with odd quantum numbers (fermion like) interactions that are at the base of the Laughlin arguments. Not just 1/3 and 2/3 but also 7ths, 5ths, a big feature at 1/2 and lots and lots
more. No way does “fractional charge” hack this.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes">
</span>How do you make 1/7 from 1/3 rds? No way. Look at the data. Read the papers! I DO have a nascent theory for all this and its relationship to high-temperature superconductivity - not ripe for email discussion in this forum though.<br>
<br>
Glueballs. I also have lots of papers entitled things like "search for glueballs in ..." . Did not find any. This should be a killer for QCD since they should ABSOLUTELY be there. Everywhere. At all energies. QCD is a non-abelian theory - the gluons should
couple to one another - apparently they do not - should be end-of-theory. <span style="mso-spacerun:yes">
</span>Apparently not for everyone! It is one of the (two) reasons I left the field in disgust.
</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;mso-pagination:none;mso-layout-grid-align:
none;text-autospace:none">
<span style="mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";
mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman"" lang="EN-US">Now there do pop up on occasion things like “is the 11199.9999 resonance a glueball?” but so far they tend to just pop down again. In my view this shows
there is not such a thing as a physical gluon. Also Martin's paper at SPIE argues that this whole field is faulty – he is, in my view, correct.<br>
<br>
Evidence for physical quarks (as Wikipedia claims). Not as such. There is strong evidence for PARTONS. These are hard bits in the hadrons. The detailed evidence is that these carry only HALF the proton invariant 4-momentum - squared (the rest mass squared)
(at most). Now the rest COULD be gluons, or valence quarks or trapped light or anything else really really small and/or not a hard bit.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;mso-pagination:none;mso-layout-grid-align:
none;text-autospace:none">
<span style="mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";
mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman"" lang="EN-US">I do have a theory for where the quark symmetry (SU3) comes from. It is simple geometry and explained in<span style="mso-spacerun:yes">
</span>my 2008 talk at CYBCOM (online and on video).</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;mso-pagination:none;mso-layout-grid-align:
none;text-autospace:none">
<span style="mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";
mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman"" lang="EN-US">You asked the question …</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Times;mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";mso-bidi-font-family:
"Times New Roman";mso-ansi-language:EN-GB">This leads me to a question everyone has been walking around...</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Times;mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";mso-bidi-font-family:
"Times New Roman";mso-ansi-language:EN-GB"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Times;mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";mso-bidi-font-family:
"Times New Roman";mso-ansi-language:EN-GB">If mass = E/c^2, and we convert mass completely to energy
- say a photon, then where did all the charge go?</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;mso-pagination:none;mso-layout-grid-align:
none;text-autospace:none">
<span style="mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";
mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman"" lang="EN-US"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;mso-pagination:none;mso-layout-grid-align:
none;text-autospace:none">
<span style="mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";
mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman"" lang="EN-US">Everyone else may have been walking around it. I have not… Have you READ my SPIE papers yet?<br>
<br>
Ok so what is charge then? It has two standard definitions in current physics. In classical electromagnetism it is a non-zero 3 divergence of the electric field. End of story. Does this explain, then, what charge IS? No. It is a definition of what it is in
terms of a mathematical property of "field" within the theory. This begs, not only such questions as to what "field" is (and Al is quite right that it cannot be "fundamental") but also what a source of such a thing might be.
</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;mso-pagination:none;mso-layout-grid-align:
none;text-autospace:none">
<span style="mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";
mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman"" lang="EN-US">In QED it is defined, in contrast, as that thing which may emit (or absorb) “photons” with some probability (as emphasized by Hans) – and the detailed
mechanics of that. It is there an exchange force, the electromagnetic force – or in its expansion to include massive boson exchange the electro-weak force.
</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;mso-pagination:none;mso-layout-grid-align:
none;text-autospace:none">
<span style="mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";
mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman"" lang="EN-US">If you call the rest massive bit phi (for the moment – as in the Schrodinger wave-function) for me, charge is the result (in my new theory) of the FORCE
FREE motion of electro-phi-magnetism. As described in my SPIE paper “</span><span style="font-family:Times;mso-bidi-font-family:Times" lang="EN-US">On the nature of the photon and the electron</span><span style="mso-fareast-font-family:
"Times New Roman";mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman"" lang="EN-US">”.<span style="mso-spacerun:yes">
</span>Here I call the square-root rest mass density bit<span style="mso-spacerun:yes">
</span>(phi) p-vot, the electric field E-vot and the magnetic field B-vot. The equation of motion for this sort of stuff, as well as 4-current and 4-angular momentum is in my new, linear, equation. Explicitly: that is the equation as in both papers.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;mso-pagination:none;mso-layout-grid-align:
none;text-autospace:none">
<span style="mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";
mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman"" lang="EN-US">This is, for me, the Dirac equation as it should have been: a linear equation of both mass and field and not of “spinors” and ready-made electron and
positron. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;mso-pagination:none;mso-layout-grid-align:
none;text-autospace:none">
<span style="mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";
mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman"" lang="EN-US">The result of the new theory is that, for a confined solution, one MUST have a radial electric field. Only for radial field does one have a mass-field
solution with force-free motion. This is WHY there is no radiation from such objects. It is just, exactly and no more than the usual reason in classical electromagnetism. There is no acceleration - one gets the equation of motion by setting the acceleration
zero- as usual. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;mso-pagination:none;mso-layout-grid-align:
none;text-autospace:none">
<span style="mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";
mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman"" lang="EN-US">Such objects gain or lose mass by mass-energy exchange – just as in quantum electrodynamics. This unifies to explain both definitions of what charge
IS within the two theories. Both a radial field AND a mechism for mass-exchange within a single, linear theory. Gentlemen, this is not me explaining what someone else has done. This really is a new equation with new solutions. You cannot read about it in “big
books”. It exists only in those two papers, the paper I circulated form FFP14 last year, and, in a more primitive form, in the paper on the CYBCOM website.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;mso-pagination:none;mso-layout-grid-align:
none;text-autospace:none">
<span style="mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";
mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman"" lang="EN-US">If you want to argue with my new theory or probe its weakness I am delighted to do this – but please argue with what is said in the papers – not the
outline in this email.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;mso-pagination:none;mso-layout-grid-align:
none;text-autospace:none">
<span style="mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";
mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman"" lang="EN-US">Notice now that this now has nothing to do with “photons”. It is just the force free equation for P-vot E-vot and B-vot. The electron is a stationary,
circulating , spinning, spherical state of BEP-vot then. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;mso-pagination:none;mso-layout-grid-align:
none;text-autospace:none">
<span style="mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";
mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman"" lang="EN-US">If you want to know why it is quantised – then that is in the other paper “</span><span style="font-family:
Times;mso-bidi-font-family:Times" lang="EN-US">Absolute
relativity in classical electromagnetism: the quantisation of light”. The quantisation of light leads over to the quantisation of the electron and the quantisation of charge, As described in the papers.</span><span style="font-size:21.0pt;
font-family:Times;mso-bidi-font-family:Times" lang="EN-US">
</span><span style="font-family:Times;mso-bidi-font-family:Times" lang="EN-US"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;mso-pagination:none;mso-layout-grid-align:
none;text-autospace:none">
<span style="mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";
mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman"" lang="EN-US">If you want to then calculate the charge for such an object – that is in the 1997 paper “Is the electron a localized photon?”</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;mso-pagination:none;mso-layout-grid-align:
none;text-autospace:none">
<span style="mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";
mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman"" lang="EN-US">If you want to know why all such objects have the same mass – it is because they simply equilibrate with one another by photon exchange – as discussed
in the papers and in any textbook on quantum electrodynamics.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;mso-pagination:none;mso-layout-grid-align:
none;text-autospace:none">
<span style="mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";
mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman"" lang="EN-US">So, you see, I think I do understand what charge IS. Prove me wrong! Make my day!</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt;mso-pagination:none;mso-layout-grid-align:
none;text-autospace:none">
<span style="mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New Roman";
mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman"" lang="EN-US">Regards, John W.</span><span style="font-family:Times;mso-bidi-font-family:Times" lang="EN-US"></span></p>
<div style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #000000; font-size: 16px">
<hr tabindex="-1">
<div style="direction: ltr;" id="divRpF41320"><font face="Tahoma" color="#000000" size="2"><b>From:</b> General [general-bounces+john.williamson=glasgow.ac.uk@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org] on behalf of davidmathes8@yahoo.com [davidmathes8@yahoo.com]<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, October 21, 2015 12:16 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Mark, Martin van der<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [General] Strong Force Modeling<br>
</font><br>
</div>
<div></div>
<div>
<div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:HelveticaNeue,Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Lucida Grande,sans-serif; font-size:16px">
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1445380556913_4385"><span>Martin</span></div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1445380556913_4386"><span><br>
</span></div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1445380556913_4388"><span id="yui_3_16_0_1_1445380556913_4387">Given the level of discourse, I will proceed no further with you.</span></div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1445380556913_4389"><span><br>
</span></div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1445380556913_4390"><span>Good day,</span></div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1445380556913_4391"><span><br>
</span></div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1445380556913_4392"><span>Davd</span></div>
<br>
<blockquote id="yui_3_16_0_1_1445380556913_4396" style="border-left:2px solid rgb(16,16,255); margin-left:5px; margin-top:5px; padding-left:5px">
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1445380556913_4395" style="font-family:HelveticaNeue,Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Lucida Grande,sans-serif; font-size:16px">
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1445380556913_4394" style="font-family:HelveticaNeue,Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Lucida Grande,sans-serif; font-size:16px">
<div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1445380556913_4393">
<hr size="1">
<font id="yui_3_16_0_1_1445380556913_4397" face="Arial" size="2"><b><span style="font-weight:bold">From:</span></b> "Mark, Martin van der" <martin.van.der.mark@philips.com><br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">To:</span></b> "<davidmathes8@yahoo.com>" <davidmathes8@yahoo.com>
<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Cc:</span></b> Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion <general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org>
<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Sent:</span></b> Tuesday, October 20, 2015 4:05 PM<br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Subject:</span></b> Re: [General] Strong Force Modeling<br>
</font></div>
<div class="y_msg_container" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1445380556913_4398"><br>
<div id="yiv3334855528">
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1445380556913_4400">
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1445380556913_4399">David, could it perhaps be that you are only projecting your own level of knowledge and understanding?</div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1445380556913_4401"><br clear="none">
</div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1445380556913_4402">Further, I have not talked about or implied any stupid model, i am simply not very interested in models as a central theme, so i definitly have no obligation to explain any model.</div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1445380556913_4403"><br clear="none">
</div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1445380556913_4404">As usual i have only tried to communicate the experimental and observational evidence combined with our (collective or personal) present (mis)understanding of physics. The exercise as i see it is to lay bare the possible
roads ahead to make more sense of it all.</div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1445380556913_4405"><br clear="none">
</div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1445380556913_4406">Sincerely,</div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1445380556913_4407">Martin<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
Verstuurd vanaf mijn iPhone</div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1445380556913_4408"><br clear="none">
Op 20 okt. 2015 om 23:19 heeft "<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="mailto:davidmathes8@yahoo.com" target="_blank">davidmathes8@yahoo.com</a>" <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="mailto:davidmathes8@yahoo.com" target="_blank">davidmathes8@yahoo.com</a>>
het volgende geschreven:<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
</div>
<div class="qtdSeparateBR"><br>
<br>
</div>
<div class="yiv3334855528yqt8012907723" id="yiv3334855528yqt49526">
<blockquote type="cite" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1445380556913_4411">
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1445380556913_4410">
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1445380556913_4409" style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:HelveticaNeue,Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Lucida Grande,sans-serif; font-size:16px">
<div dir="ltr" id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445373176154_5398"><span id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445373176154_5815">My Dear Martin,</span></div>
<div dir="ltr" id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445373176154_5398"><span><br clear="none">
</span></div>
<div dir="ltr" id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445373176154_5398">What an admirable skill to piece out imperfections with mere thoughts expressed as ad hominem brain farts. Bravo for your bravado.</div>
<div id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445373176154_5399"><br clear="none">
</div>
<div dir="ltr" id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445373176154_5399">For photonic electron models I fear you have not answered the question of mass nor charge, and in doing so, you have intervened unnecessarily between Albrecht and I in my Socratic approach, no
matter how naive. </div>
<div dir="ltr" id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445373176154_5399"><br clear="none">
</div>
<div class="yiv3334855528" dir="ltr" id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445373176154_5399">
Perhaps some reasonable progress can be made with the charge issue by modeling quarks or perhaps from the POV of Laughlin's fractional quantum Hall effect.</div>
<div class="yiv3334855528" dir="ltr" id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445373176154_5399">
<br clear="none">
</div>
<div class="yiv3334855528" dir="ltr" id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445373176154_5399">
If you have such a model of quantized 1/3e charge notable in quarks or in the quasiparticle used to explain fractional quantum Hall effect, speak up then. </div>
<div class="yiv3334855528" dir="ltr" id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445373176154_5399">
<br clear="none">
</div>
<div class="yiv3334855528" dir="ltr" id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445373176154_5399">
Best regards,</div>
<div class="yiv3334855528" dir="ltr" id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445373176154_5399">
<br clear="none">
</div>
<div class="yiv3334855528" dir="ltr" id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445373176154_5399">
David</div>
<div class="yiv3334855528" dir="ltr" id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445373176154_10389">
<br class="yiv3334855528" id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445373176154_10391" clear="none">
</div>
<div id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445373176154_5399"><br clear="none">
</div>
<div id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445373176154_5399"><br clear="none">
</div>
<blockquote id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445373176154_5404" style="border-left:2px solid rgb(16,16,255); margin-left:5px; margin-top:5px; padding-left:5px">
<div id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445373176154_5403" style="font-family:HelveticaNeue,Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Lucida Grande,sans-serif; font-size:16px">
<div id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445373176154_5402" style="font-family:HelveticaNeue,Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Lucida Grande,sans-serif; font-size:16px">
<div dir="ltr" id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445373176154_5401">
<hr id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445373176154_6428" size="1">
<font id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445373176154_5659" face="Arial" size="2"><b><span style="font-weight:bold">From:</span></b> "Mark, Martin van der" <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="mailto:martin.van.der.mark@philips.com" target="_blank">martin.van.der.mark@philips.com</a>><br clear="none">
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">To:</span></b> "<<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="mailto:davidmathes8@yahoo.com" target="_blank">davidmathes8@yahoo.com</a>>" <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="mailto:davidmathes8@yahoo.com" target="_blank">davidmathes8@yahoo.com</a>>
<br clear="none">
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Cc:</span></b> Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank">general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>>
<br clear="none">
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Sent:</span></b> Tuesday, October 20, 2015 1:17 PM<br clear="none">
<b id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445373176154_10806"><span id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445373176154_10805" style="font-weight:bold">Subject:</span></b> Re: [General] Strong Force Modeling<br clear="none">
</font></div>
<div class="yiv3334855528y_msg_container" id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445373176154_5660">
<br clear="none">
<div id="yiv3334855528">
<div id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445373176154_5662">
<div id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445373176154_5661">David, you seem to have too much free time to come up with useless ideas. Whence a single photon producing an electron???</div>
<div id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445373176154_5663">As they say : One idiot can ask more questions then ten wise man can answer in a lifetime.</div>
<div id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445373176154_5664">Please go back to intelligible level, you can do it.</div>
<div id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445373176154_5665">Regards, Martin<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
Verstuurd vanaf mijn iPhone</div>
<div id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445373176154_5666"><br clear="none">
Op 20 okt. 2015 om 18:47 heeft "<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="mailto:davidmathes8@yahoo.com" target="_blank">davidmathes8@yahoo.com</a>" <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="mailto:davidmathes8@yahoo.com" target="_blank">davidmathes8@yahoo.com</a>>
het volgende geschreven:<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
</div>
<div class="yiv3334855528qtdSeparateBR"><br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
</div>
<div class="yiv3334855528yqt2586611437" id="yiv3334855528yqt65875">
<blockquote id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445373176154_6171" type="cite">
<div id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445373176154_6170">
<div id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445373176154_6169" style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:HelveticaNeue,Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Lucida Grande,sans-serif; font-size:16px">
<div><span>Martin</span></div>
<div id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445356411561_17489"><span><br clear="none">
</span></div>
<div id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445356411561_17489">Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. </div>
<div id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445356411561_17489"><span><br clear="none">
</span></div>
<div id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445356411561_17488"><span id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445356411561_17487">So, once more into the breach...</span></div>
<div id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445356411561_17486"><span><br clear="none">
</span></div>
<div dir="ltr" id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445356411561_17485"><span id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445356411561_17484">If charge is conserved, how can a neutral photon become a charged electron?</span></div>
<div dir="ltr" id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445356411561_17165"><span><br clear="none">
</span></div>
<div dir="ltr" id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445356411561_16907"><span id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445356411561_16912">Two possibilities come to mind. First, a third particle is involved which provides the charge. One could introduce a neutrino, a Higgs
particle, or other suitable candidate to provide the charge.</span></div>
<div dir="ltr" id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445356411561_16907"><span><br clear="none">
</span></div>
<div dir="ltr" id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445356411561_16907"><span id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445356411561_17166">The second is that charge may be the result of the photon interacting with spacetime, and resonance in path curvature simply amplifies
the effect. </span></div>
<div dir="ltr" id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445356411561_16907"><span><br clear="none">
</span></div>
<div dir="ltr" id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445356411561_16907"><span id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445356411561_17483">This second conjecture leads one to wonder if the photon itself provides the charge.</span></div>
<div dir="ltr" id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445356411561_16907"><span><br clear="none">
</span></div>
<div dir="ltr" id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445356411561_16907"><br clear="none">
</div>
David<br clear="none">
<blockquote id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445356411561_16714" style="border-left:2px solid rgb(16,16,255); margin-left:5px; margin-top:5px; padding-left:5px">
<div id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445356411561_16713" style="font-family:HelveticaNeue,Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Lucida Grande,sans-serif; font-size:16px">
<div id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445356411561_16712" style="font-family:HelveticaNeue,Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,Lucida Grande,sans-serif; font-size:16px">
<div dir="ltr" id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445356411561_16711">
<hr size="1">
<font id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445356411561_16715" face="Arial" size="2"><b id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445356411561_17542"><span id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445356411561_17541" style="font-weight:bold">From:</span></b> "Mark, Martin van der" <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="mailto:martin.van.der.mark@philips.com" target="_blank">martin.van.der.mark@philips.com</a>><br clear="none">
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">To:</span></b> "<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="mailto:davidmathes8@yahoo.com" target="_blank">davidmathes8@yahoo.com</a>" <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="mailto:davidmathes8@yahoo.com" target="_blank">davidmathes8@yahoo.com</a>>;
Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank">general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>>
<br clear="none">
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Sent:</span></b> Tuesday, October 20, 2015 4:17 AM<br clear="none">
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">Subject:</span></b> RE: [General] Strong Force Modeling<br clear="none">
</font></div>
<div class="yiv3334855528y_msg_container" id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445356411561_17478">
<br clear="none">
<div id="yiv3334855528"><style>
<!--
#yiv3334855528 -- filtered
{font-family:Helvetica}
#yiv3334855528 filtered
{font-family:Helvetica}
#yiv3334855528 filtered
{font-family:Calibri}
#yiv3334855528 filtered
{font-family:Tahoma}
#yiv3334855528 p.yiv3334855528MsoNormal, #yiv3334855528 li.yiv3334855528MsoNormal, #yiv3334855528 div.yiv3334855528MsoNormal
{margin:0cm;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:12.0pt}
#yiv3334855528 a:link, #yiv3334855528 span.yiv3334855528MsoHyperlink
{color:blue;
text-decoration:underline}
#yiv3334855528 a:visited, #yiv3334855528 span.yiv3334855528MsoHyperlinkFollowed
{color:purple;
text-decoration:underline}
#yiv3334855528 p.yiv3334855528MsoAcetate, #yiv3334855528 li.yiv3334855528MsoAcetate, #yiv3334855528 div.yiv3334855528MsoAcetate
{margin:0cm;
margin-bottom:.0001pt;
font-size:8.0pt}
#yiv3334855528 span.yiv3334855528EmailStyle18
{color:#1F497D}
#yiv3334855528 .yiv3334855528MsoChpDefault
{font-size:10.0pt}
#yiv3334855528 filtered
{margin:72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt}
-->
BODY {direction: ltr;font-family: Tahoma;color: #000000;font-size: 10pt;}P {margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;}BODY {scrollbar-base-color:undefined;scrollbar-highlight-color:undefined;scrollbar-darkshadow-color:undefined;scrollbar-track-color:undefined;scrollbar-arrow-color:undefined}BODY {scrollbar-base-color:undefined;scrollbar-highlight-color:undefined;scrollbar-darkshadow-color:undefined;scrollbar-track-color:undefined;scrollbar-arrow-color:undefined}BODY {scrollbar-base-color:undefined;scrollbar-highlight-color:undefined;scrollbar-darkshadow-color:undefined;scrollbar-track-color:undefined;scrollbar-arrow-color:undefined}BODY {scrollbar-base-color:undefined;scrollbar-highlight-color:undefined;scrollbar-darkshadow-color:undefined;scrollbar-track-color:undefined;scrollbar-arrow-color:undefined}BODY {scrollbar-base-color:undefined;scrollbar-highlight-color:undefined;scrollbar-darkshadow-color:undefined;scrollbar-track-color:undefined;scrollbar-arrow-color:undefined}BODY {scrollbar-base-color:undefined;scrollbar-highlight-color:undefined;scrollbar-darkshadow-color:undefined;scrollbar-track-color:undefined;scrollbar-arrow-color:undefined}BODY {scrollbar-base-color:undefined;scrollbar-highlight-color:undefined;scrollbar-darkshadow-color:undefined;scrollbar-track-color:undefined;scrollbar-arrow-color:undefined}</style>
<div id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445356411561_17477">
<div class="yiv3334855528WordSection1" id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445356411561_17476">
<div class="yiv3334855528MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">David, simply no, apparently experimentally not in this universe, as explained. You may want to do your homework and look it all up in the literature.</span></div>
<div class="yiv3334855528MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Regards, Martin</span></div>
<div class="yiv3334855528MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span></div>
<div id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445373176154_10113">
<div class="yiv3334855528MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt" lang="DE">Dr. Martin B. van der Mark</span><span style="color:navy" lang="DE"></span></div>
<div class="yiv3334855528MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">Principal Scientist, Minimally Invasive Healthcare</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt"></span></div>
<div class="yiv3334855528MsoNormal" id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445373176154_10112">
<span style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span></div>
<div class="yiv3334855528MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">Philips Research Europe - Eindhoven</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt"></span></div>
<div class="yiv3334855528MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">High Tech Campus, Building 34 (WB2.025)</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt"></span></div>
<div class="yiv3334855528MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">Prof. Holstlaan 4</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt"></span></div>
<div class="yiv3334855528MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">5656 AE Eindhoven, The Netherlands</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt"></span></div>
<div class="yiv3334855528MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">Tel: +31 40 2747548</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt"></span></div>
</div>
<div class="yiv3334855528MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span></div>
<div class="yiv3334855528qtdSeparateBR"><br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
</div>
<div class="yiv3334855528yqt9655619840" id="yiv3334855528yqt84188">
<div>
<div style="border:none; border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt; padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<div class="yiv3334855528MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt"> General [<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="mailto:general-bounces+martin.van.der.mark=philips.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank">mailto:general-bounces+martin.van.der.mark=philips.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="mailto:davidmathes8@yahoo.com" target="_blank">davidmathes8@yahoo.com</a><br clear="none">
<b>Sent:</b> dinsdag 20 oktober 2015 1:30<br clear="none">
<b>To:</b> Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion<br clear="none">
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [General] Strong Force Modeling</span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="yiv3334855528MsoNormal"> </div>
<div id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445356411561_17475">
<div>
<div class="yiv3334855528MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="">Martin</span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv3334855528MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style=""> </span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv3334855528MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="">IMHO we don't understand charge. </span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv3334855528MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style=""> </span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445294444662_18128">
<div class="yiv3334855528MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="">So when and where symmetry breaking is permitted, charge would appear to be a great candidate, high on the priority search list.</span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445294444662_18128">
<div class="yiv3334855528MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style=""> </span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445294444662_18128">
<div class="yiv3334855528MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="">Best</span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445294444662_18128">
<div class="yiv3334855528MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style=""> </span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445294444662_18128">
<div class="yiv3334855528MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="">David</span></div>
</div>
<div class="yiv3334855528MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style=""><br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
</span></div>
<div id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445294444662_17941">
<div id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445294444662_17940">
<div id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445294444662_17984">
<div class="yiv3334855528MsoNormal" style="text-align:center; background:white" align="center">
<span style=""></span>
<hr align="center" size="1" width="100%">
</div>
<div class="yiv3334855528MsoNormal" id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445356411561_17474" style="background:white">
<b><span style="font-size:10.0pt">From:</span></b><span id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445356411561_17480" style="font-size:10.0pt"> "Mark, Martin van der" <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="mailto:martin.van.der.mark@philips.com" target="_blank">martin.van.der.mark@philips.com</a>><br clear="none">
<b>To:</b> "<<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="mailto:davidmathes8@yahoo.com" target="_blank">davidmathes8@yahoo.com</a>>" <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="mailto:davidmathes8@yahoo.com" target="_blank">davidmathes8@yahoo.com</a>>; Nature of Light and
Particles - General Discussion <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445373176154_10205" href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank">general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>>
<br clear="none">
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, October 19, 2015 12:09 PM<br clear="none">
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [General] Strong Force Modeling</span><span style=""></span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445294444662_17939">
<div class="yiv3334855528MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style=""> </span></div>
<div id="yiv3334855528">
<div id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445294444662_17938">
<div id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445294444662_17937">
<div class="yiv3334855528MsoNormal" id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445373176154_10204" style="background:white">
<span id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445373176154_10203" style="">Hi David, it is interesting to think in such a direction, but I would say: No.</span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv3334855528MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="">However, an example would convince me quite easily.</span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv3334855528MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="">Why? It is all about symmetry to begin with. In an anihilation process everything comes together with its opposite, even the violations!</span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv3334855528MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="">I appreciate the challenge...</span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv3334855528MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="">Very best, Martin<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
Verstuurd vanaf mijn iPhone</span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445373176154_6168">
<div class="yiv3334855528MsoNormal" id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445373176154_6167" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt; background:white">
<span id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445373176154_6166" style=""><br clear="none">
Op 19 okt. 2015 om 20:57 heeft "<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445373176154_6165" href="mailto:davidmathes8@yahoo.com" target="_blank">davidmathes8@yahoo.com</a>" <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="mailto:davidmathes8@yahoo.com" target="_blank">davidmathes8@yahoo.com</a>>
het volgende geschreven:</span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv3334855528MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt; background:white">
<span style=""> </span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv3334855528yqt16875">
<blockquote id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445373176154_6189" style="margin-top:5.0pt; margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445373176154_6188">
<div id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445373176154_6187">
<div id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445268100742_40022">
<div class="yiv3334855528MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="">Martin</span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445268100742_40022">
<div class="yiv3334855528MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style=""> </span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445268100742_40022">
<div class="yiv3334855528MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="">CP violations might be an exception.</span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445268100742_40022">
<div class="yiv3334855528MsoNormal" id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445373176154_10202" style="background:white">
<span style=""> </span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445268100742_40022">
<div class="yiv3334855528MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="">Best</span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445268100742_40022">
<div class="yiv3334855528MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style=""> </span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445268100742_40022">
<div class="yiv3334855528MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="">David</span></div>
</div>
<div class="yiv3334855528MsoNormal" id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445373176154_10201" style="background:white">
<span style=""><br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
</span></div>
<div id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445268100742_40013">
<div id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445268100742_40012">
<div id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445268100742_40011">
<div class="yiv3334855528MsoNormal" id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445373176154_10200" style="text-align:center; background:white" align="center">
<span style=""></span>
<hr id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445373176154_10199" align="center" size="1" width="100%">
</div>
<div class="yiv3334855528MsoNormal" style="background:white"><b id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445268100742_40175"><span style="font-size:10.0pt">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt"> "Mark, Martin van der" <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="mailto:martin.van.der.mark@philips.com" target="_blank">martin.van.der.mark@philips.com</a>><br clear="none">
<b>To:</b> "<<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="mailto:davidmathes8@yahoo.com" target="_blank">davidmathes8@yahoo.com</a>>" <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="mailto:davidmathes8@yahoo.com" target="_blank">davidmathes8@yahoo.com</a>>; Nature of Light and
Particles - General Discussion <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank">general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>>
<br clear="none">
<b id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445268100742_40177">Sent:</b> Monday, October 19, 2015 11:34 AM<br clear="none">
<b id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445268100742_40179">Subject:</b> Re: [General] Strong Force Modeling</span><span style=""></span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445268100742_40181">
<div class="yiv3334855528MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style=""> </span></div>
<div id="yiv3334855528">
<div id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445268100742_40180">
<div id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445373176154_10173">
<div class="yiv3334855528MsoNormal" id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445373176154_10172" style="background:white">
<span style="">Dear David,</span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445268100742_40193">
<div class="yiv3334855528MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="">First: Mass cannot be concerted to energy, never under any circumstances! </span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445268100742_40192">
<div class="yiv3334855528MsoNormal" id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445373176154_10198" style="background:white">
<span id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445373176154_10197" style="">Rather mass IS energy, see "light is heavy" for explanation.</span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445268100742_40191">
<div class="yiv3334855528MsoNormal" id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445373176154_10180" style="background:white">
<span id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445373176154_10179" style="">Second: Whenever matter is converted to radiation (this what you meat, right), charge is (and must be) conserved, always. An electron and positron covert to photons, for example, and there is
no net charge at any time.</span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445268100742_40190">
<div class="yiv3334855528MsoNormal" id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445373176154_10181" style="background:white">
<span style="">Cheers, Martin</span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445268100742_40189">
<div class="yiv3334855528MsoNormal" id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445373176154_6186" style="background:white">
<span id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445373176154_10182" style=""><br clear="none">
Verstuurd vanaf mijn iPhone</span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445268100742_40188">
<div class="yiv3334855528MsoNormal" id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445373176154_10183" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt; background:white">
<span style=""><br clear="none">
Op 19 okt. 2015 om 20:20 heeft "<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="mailto:davidmathes8@yahoo.com" target="_blank">davidmathes8@yahoo.com</a>" <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="mailto:davidmathes8@yahoo.com" target="_blank">davidmathes8@yahoo.com</a>>
het volgende geschreven:</span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445373176154_10117">
<div class="yiv3334855528MsoNormal" id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445373176154_10116" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt; background:white">
<span style=""> </span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv3334855528yqt84011">
<blockquote id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445373176154_6192" style="margin-top:5.0pt; margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445268100742_40184">
<div id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445268100742_40183">
<div id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445268100742_40187">
<div class="yiv3334855528MsoNormal" id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445373176154_10184" style="background:white">
<span style="">Albrecht,</span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445268100742_28565">
<div class="yiv3334855528MsoNormal" id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445373176154_6191" style="background:white">
<span style=""> </span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445268100742_28563">
<div class="yiv3334855528MsoNormal" id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445373176154_10186" style="background:white">
<span id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445373176154_10185" style="">While the current research focus is on getting photonic-based electron theory correct, an obvious goal would be to extend a building-block theory to all elementary particles, both simple (electron)
and complex (proton, neutron, meson, etc)</span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445268100742_28562">
<div class="yiv3334855528MsoNormal" id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445373176154_10187" style="background:white">
<span style=""> </span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445268100742_28562">
<div class="yiv3334855528MsoNormal" id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445373176154_10189" style="background:white">
<span id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445373176154_10188" style="">To that end, one needs to address and parse some seemingly "what is it?" moments. Is it a particle or a wave? Is it mass or energy? Is it moving or not? Is there a reference frame dependency?</span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445268100742_28562">
<div class="yiv3334855528MsoNormal" id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445373176154_6194" style="background:white">
<span style=""> </span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445268100742_28562">
<div class="yiv3334855528MsoNormal" id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445373176154_10191" style="background:white">
<span id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445373176154_10190" style="">As to relativistic contraction, the general physics assumption is that charge is invariant especially in flat space. So, the charge to mass ratio for various particles is rather fixed. This leads
me to a question everyone has been walking around...</span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445268100742_28562">
<div class="yiv3334855528MsoNormal" id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445373176154_10192" style="background:white">
<span style=""> </span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445268100742_28562">
<div class="yiv3334855528MsoNormal" id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445373176154_10194" style="background:white">
<span id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445373176154_10193" style="">If mass = E/c^2, and we convert mass completely to energy - say a photon, then where did all the charge go?</span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445268100742_28561">
<div class="yiv3334855528MsoNormal" id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445373176154_10195" style="background:white">
<span style=""> </span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445268100742_28561">
<div class="yiv3334855528MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style=""> </span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445268100742_28561">
<div class="yiv3334855528MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="">D</span></div>
</div>
<div class="yiv3334855528MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style=""><br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
</span></div>
<div id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445268100742_28314">
<div id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445268100742_28313">
<div id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445268100742_28312">
<div class="yiv3334855528MsoNormal" style="text-align:center; background:white" align="center">
<span style=""></span>
<hr align="center" size="1" width="100%">
</div>
<div class="yiv3334855528MsoNormal" style="background:white"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt"> Dr. Albrecht Giese <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="mailto:genmail@a-giese.de" target="_blank">genmail@a-giese.de</a>><br clear="none">
<b>To:</b> <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="mailto:davidmathes8@yahoo.com" target="_blank">
davidmathes8@yahoo.com</a>; Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank">general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>>
<br clear="none">
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, October 19, 2015 8:29 AM<br clear="none">
<b>Subject:</b> Re: Strong Force Modeling</span><span style=""></span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445268100742_28559">
<div class="yiv3334855528MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style=""> </span></div>
<div id="yiv3334855528">
<div id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445268100742_28560">
<div class="yiv3334855528MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt; background:white">
<span style="">David,<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
you have given here some criteria or properties which have to be fulfilled by a particle model. I shall try to answer this by listing some points which make up my model following your topics.<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
The particle model which I propose is not restricted to the electron but is assumed to be valid for all leptons and as well for all quarks.<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
To your challenges:<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
In this model a charge is an elementary entity, a kind of an "atom" in the real sense which causes a force onto a similar object. There a two kinds of charges in the model: the electric one and the strong one. The weak one is in fact the strong one but with
a reduced coupling constant, caused by a different shape of the configurations having these charges. - Maybe that in the future development of particle physics we will find a more fundamental cause of charges. At present I do not see any, and in the present
situation it seems not to be an urgent question.<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
The case of 8 gluons: We know that elementary particles react with certain others, but not with all. Particle physicists have made an ad-hoc assumption to "explain", or better to order this situation by assigning further quantum numbers to elementary particles,
like isospin, strangeness, lepton number, quark number. The colour of gluons seems to be a similar category. These are in my case further properties of the "basic" particles, which are not described by the model as they do not influence the properties of the
particles which I presently care about, like the inertial mass and momentum, which is explained by this model, as well as the conservation of energy, which is also explained (not only used!) by this model.<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
Leptoquarks have been an ad-hoc assumption to explain interactions between leptons and quarks. This assumption was not successful and is in fact not needed if the assumption of my model, that leptons are also subject to the strong force, is accepted.
<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
>From this model follows gravitation as I have explained earlier. The exchange particles interact with light-like particles (photons and "basic" particles) and cause them to reduce their speed below c. From this all aspects of gravitation can be quantitatively
deduced, Newton' gravity as well the results of Einstein's GRT.<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
Inertia is the direct consequence of this model. An elementary particle is, according to this model, extended, and any extended object has inevitably an inertial behaviour. I have shown (and show it in my web site) that with reference to this mechanism the
mass of the electron can be determined with an accuracy of almost 1 : 1 million.
<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
I am using exchange particles as mediators for the forces in a particle, which are the electric force and the strong force. The main advantage for the use in my model is that they provide a good physical explanation for the relativistic contraction.<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
Best regards<br clear="none">
Albrecht<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
</span></div>
<div>
<div class="yiv3334855528MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="">Am 16.10.2015 um 17:41 schrieb
<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="mailto:davidmathes8@yahoo.com" target="_blank">
davidmathes8@yahoo.com</a>:</span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div class="yiv3334855528MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt; background:white">
<span style=""> </span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv3334855528yqt96238">
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt; margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445008406969_3000">
<div class="yiv3334855528MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="">Albrecht</span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445008406969_3000">
<div class="yiv3334855528MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style=""> </span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445008406969_3000">
<div class="yiv3334855528MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="">If the electron modeling is to succeed and gain wide acceptance, then the modeling needs to become a foundation that can be built on to develop other Elementary Particles. While photonic
electron theories may be that foundation, there are three challenges. First, explaining charge and the source of charge. Second, modeling the eight gluons - one would usually be enough, but eight...? Third, modeling the transitory nature of quarks and leptoquarks.</span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445008406969_5153">
<div class="yiv3334855528MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style=""> </span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445008406969_3000">
<div class="yiv3334855528MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="">Modeling the electron to satisfy the leptoquark theory may involve force-bound states. If so, then in order for a lepton-quark interaction, given the E&M nature of the electron or even
electroweak, no matter how transiently a leptoquark may require an electron with the addition of the strong nuclear force. Modeling a fully loaded electron with E&M, weak and strong forces may prove challenging. However, this path may lead towards explaining
gravitation and inertia.</span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445008406969_3000">
<div class="yiv3334855528MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style=""> </span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445008406969_3000">
<div class="yiv3334855528MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="">For the experts in electron modeling, perhaps the key to unlocking what's inside elementary is gluons. Glueballs (gluonium) may be worth the effort of modeling. </span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445008406969_3000">
<div class="yiv3334855528MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style=""> </span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445008406969_3000">
<div class="yiv3334855528MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="">David</span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445008406969_3000">
<div class="yiv3334855528MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style=""> </span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445008406969_3000">
<div class="yiv3334855528MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style=""> </span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445008406969_3000">
<div class="yiv3334855528MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style=""> </span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445008406969_3000">
<div class="yiv3334855528MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="">Article</span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445008406969_3000">
<div class="yiv3334855528MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style=""><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="http://www.gizmag.com/meson-f01710-glueball-particle/39866/?-particle-made-purely-of-nuclear-force/" target="_blank">Meson f0(1710) could be so-called
“glueball” particle made purely of nuclear force</a></span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445008406969_3499">
<div class="yiv3334855528MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style=""> </span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445008406969_3000">
<div class="yiv3334855528MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="">"</span><span class="yiv3334855528"><span style="font-size:13.5pt">Elementary particles come in two kinds: those that carry force (</span></span><span style=""><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445008406969_3485" href="http://www.gizmag.com/tag/boson/" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:13.5pt">bosons</span></a></span><span class="yiv3334855528"><span style="font-size:13.5pt">),
such as photons, and those that make up matter (</span></span><span style=""><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445008406969_3489" href="http://www.gizmag.com/tag/fermions/" target="_blank"><span style="font-size:13.5pt">fermions</span></a></span><span class="yiv3334855528"><span style="font-size:13.5pt">),
such as electrons. In this context, gluons may be viewed as more complex forms of the photon. However, as photons are the force carriers for electromagnetism, gluons exhibit a similar role for the strong nuclear force. The major difference between the two,
however, is that <i id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445008406969_4208">gluons are able to be influenced by their own forces, whereas photons are not.</i>
<b id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445008406969_4207"><i id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445008406969_4206">As a result, photons cannot exist in force-bound states, though gluons, which are attracted by force to each other, make a particle of pure (strong) nuclear
force possible."</i></b></span></span><span style=""></span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445008406969_3000">
<div class="yiv3334855528MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style=""> </span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445008406969_3000">
<div class="yiv3334855528MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style=""> </span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445008406969_3000">
<div class="yiv3334855528MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="">Arxiv </span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445008406969_3000">
<div class="yiv3334855528MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style=""><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="http://arxiv.org/abs/1504.05815" target="_blank">[1504.05815] Nonchiral enhancement of scalar glueball decay in the Witten-Sakai-Sugimoto model</a></span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445008406969_3000">
<div class="yiv3334855528MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style=""> </span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445008406969_3000">
<div class="yiv3334855528MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="">Arxiv</span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445008406969_3000">
<div class="yiv3334855528MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style=""><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="http://arxiv.org/abs/1501.07906" target="_blank">[1501.07906] Glueball Decay Rates in the Witten-Sakai-Sugimoto Model</a></span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445008406969_3000">
<div class="yiv3334855528MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style=""> </span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445008406969_3000">
<div class="yiv3334855528MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style=""><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glueball" target="_blank">Glueball - Wiki</a></span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445008406969_3000">
<div class="yiv3334855528MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style=""> </span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv3334855528yui_3_16_0_1_1445008406969_3000">
<div class="yiv3334855528MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style=""><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leptoquark" target="_blank">Leptoquark - Wiki</a></span></div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<div class="yiv3334855528MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt; background:white">
<span style=""><br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
</span></div>
<div class="yiv3334855528MsoNormal" style="text-align:center; background:white" align="center">
<span style=""></span>
<hr align="center" noshade="style="color:#909090;"">
</div>
<table class="yiv3334855528MsoNormalTable" style="border-collapse:collapse" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td colspan="1" rowspan="1" style="padding:0cm 11.25pt 0cm 6.0pt">
<div class="yiv3334855528MsoNormal"><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="https://www.avast.com/antivirus" target="_blank"><span style="text-decoration:none"><img id="yiv3334855528_x0000_i1029" src="http://static.avast.com/emails/avast-mail-stamp.png" alt="Avast logo" border="0"></span></a></div>
</td>
<td colspan="1" rowspan="1" style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<div>
<div class="yiv3334855528MsoNormal"><span style="color:#3D4D5A">Diese E-Mail wurde von Avast Antivirus-Software auf Viren geprüft.
<br clear="none">
<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="https://www.avast.com/antivirus" target="_blank">www.avast.com</a>
</span></div>
</div>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<div class="yiv3334855528MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style=""> </span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="yiv3334855528MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt; background:white">
<span style=""> </span></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt; margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div class="yiv3334855528MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="">_______________________________________________<br clear="none">
If you no longer wish to receive communication from the Nature of Light and Particles General Discussion List at
<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="mailto:martin.van.der.mark@philips.com" target="_blank">
martin.van.der.mark@philips.com</a><br clear="none">
<a href="<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="http://lists.natureoflightandparticles.org/options.cgi/general-natureoflightandparticles.org/martin.van.der.mark%40philips.com?unsub=1&unsubconfirm=1" target="_blank">http://lists.natureoflightandparticles.org/options.cgi/general-natureoflightandparticles.org/martin.van.der.mark%40philips.com?unsub=1&unsubconfirm=1</a>"><br clear="none">
Click here to unsubscribe<br clear="none">
</a></span></div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div class="yiv3334855528MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style=""> </span></div>
<div class="yiv3334855528MsoNormal" style="text-align:center; background:white" align="center">
<span style=""></span>
<hr align="center" size="2" width="100%">
</div>
<div class="yiv3334855528MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="font-size:7.5pt">The information contained in this message may be confidential and legally protected under applicable law. The message is intended solely for the addressee(s). If you
are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, forwarding, dissemination, or reproduction of this message is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by return e-mail and
destroy all copies of the original message.</span><span style=""></span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="yiv3334855528MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style=""> </span></div>
<div id="yiv3334855528yqt55179">
<div class="yiv3334855528MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="">_______________________________________________<br clear="none">
If you no longer wish to receive communication from the Nature of Light and Particles General Discussion List at
<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="mailto:davidmathes8@yahoo.com" target="_blank">
davidmathes8@yahoo.com</a><br clear="none">
<a href="<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="http://lists.natureoflightandparticles.org/options.cgi/general-natureoflightandparticles.org/davidmathes8%40yahoo.com?unsub=1&unsubconfirm=1" target="_blank">http://lists.natureoflightandparticles.org/options.cgi/general-natureoflightandparticles.org/davidmathes8%40yahoo.com?unsub=1&unsubconfirm=1</a>"><br clear="none">
Click here to unsubscribe<br clear="none">
</a></span></div>
</div>
<div class="yiv3334855528MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt; background:white">
<span style=""> </span></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt; margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div class="yiv3334855528MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="">_______________________________________________<br clear="none">
If you no longer wish to receive communication from the Nature of Light and Particles General Discussion List at
<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="mailto:martin.van.der.mark@philips.com" target="_blank">
martin.van.der.mark@philips.com</a><br clear="none">
<a href="<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="http://lists.natureoflightandparticles.org/options.cgi/general-natureoflightandparticles.org/martin.van.der.mark%40philips.com?unsub=1&unsubconfirm=1" target="_blank">http://lists.natureoflightandparticles.org/options.cgi/general-natureoflightandparticles.org/martin.van.der.mark%40philips.com?unsub=1&unsubconfirm=1</a>"><br clear="none">
Click here to unsubscribe<br clear="none">
</a></span></div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<div class="yiv3334855528MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style=""> </span></div>
<div id="yiv3334855528yqt59777">
<div class="yiv3334855528MsoNormal" style="background:white"><span style="">_______________________________________________<br clear="none">
If you no longer wish to receive communication from the Nature of Light and Particles General Discussion List at
<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="mailto:davidmathes8@yahoo.com" target="_blank">
davidmathes8@yahoo.com</a><br clear="none">
<a href="<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" href="http://lists.natureoflightandparticles.org/options.cgi/general-natureoflightandparticles.org/davidmathes8%40yahoo.com?unsub=1&unsubconfirm=1" target="_blank">http://lists.natureoflightandparticles.org/options.cgi/general-natureoflightandparticles.org/davidmathes8%40yahoo.com?unsub=1&unsubconfirm=1</a>"><br clear="none">
Click here to unsubscribe<br clear="none">
</a></span></div>
</div>
<div class="yiv3334855528MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt; background:white">
<span style=""> </span></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br>
<br>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>