<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Hello Martin,<div class=""> Thanks for this information. If the election is composed in some way of a circulating photon or photon-like object, then these issues of phase velocity, group velocity and energy transport velocity should apply to this circulating photon also, shouldn’t they? But according to Fermi-Dirac statistics (backed up by experiments), every electron is exactly the same as every other electron, so there shouldn’t be differences between electrons (composed of circulating photons) due to different internal phase velocities or group velocities of these circulating photons. Is this a contradiction? Or does the issue of phase velocity and group velocity only apply to groups of photons forming an electromagnetic wave pulse, and not to individual photons (whether forming an electron or not?</div><div class=""> Thanks.</div><div class=""> Richard</div><div class=""><br class=""><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Oct 20, 2015, at 4:53 AM, Mark, Martin van der <<a href="mailto:martin.van.der.mark@philips.com" class="">martin.van.der.mark@philips.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;"><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">David and all,<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">Just for the record, there are three kinds of velocity for electromagnetic waves:<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt 36pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; text-indent: -18pt;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""><span class="">1)<span style="font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-family: 'Times New Roman';" class=""> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></span></span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">The phase velocity, it governs refraction and as you may guess, the refractive index, n, is the material property related to it. May have any velocity, +/- infinity.<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt 36pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">v_phase = omega/k<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt 36pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; text-indent: -18pt;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""><span class="">2)<span style="font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-family: 'Times New Roman';" class=""> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></span></span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">The group velocity, this how fast a pulse of light moves and it is always slower than c.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt 36pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">v_group = domega/dk<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt 36pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; text-indent: -18pt;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""><span class="">3)<span style="font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 7pt; line-height: normal; font-family: 'Times New Roman';" class=""> <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></span></span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">The energy transport velocity, relevant for resonant structures, always slower than c<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt 36pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">v_energy = see Amsterdam effect and the book by Brillouin on propagation<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">Then (as indicated in the first point), on top of this there is the possibility of negative epsilon and mu leading to negative refractive index. This may happen at a resonance (small bandwidth, limited response time), and is associated with so-called perfect lenses and optical cloaks. Can be made as a meta material. It amplifies the near-field (longitudinal component).<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">I hope this helps some.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class="">Cheers, Martin<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""> </span></div><div class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span lang="DE" style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: navy;" class="">Dr. Martin B. van der Mark</span><span lang="DE" style="color: navy;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: navy;" class="">Principal Scientist, Minimally Invasive Healthcare</span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: navy;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: navy;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: navy;" class="">Philips Research Europe - Eindhoven</span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: navy;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: navy;" class="">High Tech Campus, Building 34 (WB2.025)</span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: navy;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: navy;" class="">Prof. Holstlaan 4</span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: navy;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: navy;" class="">5656 AE Eindhoven, The Netherlands</span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: navy;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; color: navy;" class="">Tel: +31 40 2747548</span><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""> </span></div><div class=""><div style="border-style: solid none none; border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, 223); border-top-width: 1pt; padding: 3pt 0cm 0cm;" class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><b class=""><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;" class="">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;" class=""><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>General [<a href="mailto:general-bounces+martin.van.der.mark=philips.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">mailto:general-bounces+martin.van.der.mark=philips.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>]<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="">On Behalf Of<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b><a href="mailto:davidmathes8@yahoo.com" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">davidmathes8@yahoo.com</a><br class=""><b class="">Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>dinsdag 20 oktober 2015 1:26<br class=""><b class="">To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion; Richard Gauthier; Chip Akins<br class=""><b class="">Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>[General] To Infinity and Beyond: zero phase index?<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div></div><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div><div class=""><h1 style="margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 24pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-bottom: 15pt; background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;" class=""><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif; color: rgb(34, 34, 34); letter-spacing: -0.4pt; font-weight: normal;" class="">Rich, Chip, John W, Martin et al</span><span style="font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif; color: rgb(34, 34, 34); letter-spacing: -0.4pt; font-weight: normal;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></h1><h1 id="yui_3_16_0_1_1445294444662_15279" style="margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 24pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-bottom: 15pt; background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;" class=""><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif; color: rgb(34, 34, 34); letter-spacing: -0.4pt; font-weight: normal;" class="">I've wondered if the photon or quanta within the confines of an electron could really travel at FTL velocities. </span><span style="font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif; color: rgb(34, 34, 34); letter-spacing: -0.4pt; font-weight: normal;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></h1><h1 id="yui_3_16_0_1_1445294444662_15279" style="margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 24pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-bottom: 15pt; background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;" class=""><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif; color: rgb(34, 34, 34); letter-spacing: -0.4pt; font-weight: normal;" class="">Indeed, one of the parametric models Richard has proposed does fit known experiments to date. </span><span style="font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif; color: rgb(34, 34, 34); letter-spacing: -0.4pt; font-weight: normal;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></h1><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1445294444662_15900" class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; background-color: white;" class=""><span style="font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;" class=""> </span></div></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1445294444662_15899" class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; background-color: white;" class=""><span style="font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;" class="">So here is an interesting tool for experimentalists: an o</span><span style="font-size: 13.5pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif; color: rgb(34, 34, 34); letter-spacing: -0.4pt;" class="">n-chip zero-index metamaterial.</span><span style="font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div><h1 id="yui_3_16_0_1_1445294444662_15279" style="margin-right: 0cm; margin-left: 0cm; font-size: 24pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; margin-bottom: 15pt; background-color: white; background-position: initial initial; background-repeat: initial initial;" class=""><span style="font-size: 12pt; font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif; color: rgb(34, 34, 34); letter-spacing: -0.4pt; font-weight: normal;" class=""> </span><span style="font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif; color: rgb(34, 34, 34); letter-spacing: -0.4pt; font-weight: normal;" class=""><a href="http://www.nature.com/nphoton/journal/vaop/ncurrent/full/nphoton.2015.198.html" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1445294444662_15318" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline;" class=""><span style="font-size: 12pt;" class="">http://www.nature.com/nphoton/journal/vaop/ncurrent/full/nphoton.2015.198.html</span></a><o:p class=""></o:p></span></h1><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1445294444662_15317" class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; background-color: white;" class=""><span style="font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif; color: rgb(51, 51, 51);" class="">"This novel on-chip metamaterial platform opens the door to exploring the physics of zero index and its applications in integrated optics."</span><span style="font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1445294444662_15317" class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; background-color: white;" class=""><span style="font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;" class=""> </span></div></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1445294444662_15317" class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; background-color: white;" class=""><span style="font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;" class="">Best<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1445294444662_15317" class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; background-color: white;" class=""><span style="font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;" class=""> </span></div></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1445294444662_15317" class=""><div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif; background-color: white;" class=""><span style="font-family: Helvetica, sans-serif;" class="">David<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div></div></div></div><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><hr style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><font face="Arial" color="Gray" size="1" style="font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">The information contained in this message may be confidential and legally protected under applicable law. The message is intended solely for the addressee(s). If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, forwarding, dissemination, or reproduction of this message is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by return e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message.<br class=""></font><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">_______________________________________________</span><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">If you no longer wish to receive communication from the Nature of Light and Particles General Discussion List at<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><a href="mailto:richgauthier@gmail.com" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">richgauthier@gmail.com</a><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class=""><a href="</span><a href="http://lists.natureoflightandparticles.org/options.cgi/general-natureoflightandparticles.org/richgauthier%40gmail.com?unsub=1&unsubconfirm=1" style="color: purple; text-decoration: underline; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">http://lists.natureoflightandparticles.org/options.cgi/general-natureoflightandparticles.org/richgauthier%40gmail.com?unsub=1&unsubconfirm=1</a><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">"></span><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class="">Click here to unsubscribe</span><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class=""><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class=""></a></span></div></blockquote></div><br class=""></div></body></html>