<html><head></head><body><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:16px"><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1445820941368_9348"><span>Martin</span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1445820941368_9310"><span><br></span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1445820941368_9310"><span id="yui_3_16_0_1_1445820941368_9424">So to pick up this old threadfrom a week ago...</span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1445820941368_9310"><br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1445820941368_9310" dir="ltr">Agreed that phase velocity can have "...any velocity, <span style="font-size: 14.999999046325684px;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1445820941368_9553" class="">+/- infinity."</span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1445820941368_9310"><br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1445820941368_9310">However, the assumption is a EM U(1) symmetry. SU(2) and higher may be a better fit for not only what we observe, but what may be possible although not yet observed.</div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1445820941368_9310"><br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1445820941368_9310">Non locality or spooky action at a distance should also have a velocity. This phenomena may not be EM. However, when discussing the speed of light, any velocity should be compared to light-like velocity.</div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1445820941368_9310"><br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1445820941368_9310" class="">What is the velocity or velocity range of entanglement? There appears to be an upper limit but beyond that of c.</div><div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1445820941368_9557" class=""><a href="http://arxiv.org/pdf/1303.0614v1.pdf" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1445820941368_9983" class="">Bounding the speed of ‘spooky action at a distance</a><br id="yui_3_16_0_1_1445820941368_9559" class=""></div><div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1445820941368_9557" class=""><br></div><div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1445820941368_9557" class="">David</div><div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1445820941368_9557" class=""><br></div><div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1445820941368_9557" class=""><br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1445820941368_9310"><br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1445820941368_9310" class=""><br></div><div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1445820941368_9557" class=""><br></div><div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1445820941368_9557" class=""><br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1445820941368_9309"><span><br></span></div><br> <blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255); margin-left: 5px; margin-top: 5px; padding-left: 5px;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1445820941368_9264"> <div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1445820941368_9263"> <div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1445820941368_9262"> <div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1445820941368_9261"> <hr size="1" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1445820941368_9425"> <font size="2" face="Arial" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1445820941368_9279"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">From:</span></b> "Mark, Martin van der" <martin.van.der.mark@philips.com><br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> "davidmathes8@yahoo.com" <davidmathes8@yahoo.com>; Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion <general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org> <br> <b id="yui_3_16_0_1_1445820941368_11786"><span style="font-weight: bold;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1445820941368_11785">Sent:</span></b> Tuesday, October 20, 2015 4:53 AM<br> <b id="yui_3_16_0_1_1445820941368_11773"><span style="font-weight: bold;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1445820941368_11772">Subject:</span></b> Re: [General] To Infinity and Beyond: zero phase index?<br> </font> </div> <div class="y_msg_container" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1445820941368_9280"><br><div id="yiv9822537137"><style>#yiv9822537137 #yiv9822537137 --
_filtered #yiv9822537137 {font-family:Helvetica;panose-1:2 11 6 4 2 2 2 2 2 4;}
_filtered #yiv9822537137 {font-family:Helvetica;panose-1:2 11 6 4 2 2 2 2 2 4;}
_filtered #yiv9822537137 {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}
_filtered #yiv9822537137 {font-family:Tahoma;panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}
#yiv9822537137
#yiv9822537137 p.yiv9822537137MsoNormal, #yiv9822537137 li.yiv9822537137MsoNormal, #yiv9822537137 div.yiv9822537137MsoNormal
{margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;}
#yiv9822537137 h1
{margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:24.0pt;}
#yiv9822537137 a:link, #yiv9822537137 span.yiv9822537137MsoHyperlink
{color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}
#yiv9822537137 a:visited, #yiv9822537137 span.yiv9822537137MsoHyperlinkFollowed
{color:purple;text-decoration:underline;}
#yiv9822537137 p.yiv9822537137MsoListParagraph, #yiv9822537137 li.yiv9822537137MsoListParagraph, #yiv9822537137 div.yiv9822537137MsoListParagraph
{margin-top:0cm;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:0cm;margin-left:36.0pt;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;}
#yiv9822537137 span.yiv9822537137Heading1Char
{color:#365F91;font-weight:bold;}
#yiv9822537137 span.yiv9822537137EmailStyle18
{color:#1F497D;}
#yiv9822537137 .yiv9822537137MsoChpDefault
{font-size:10.0pt;}
_filtered #yiv9822537137 {margin:72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt;}
#yiv9822537137 div.yiv9822537137WordSection1
{}
#yiv9822537137
_filtered #yiv9822537137 {}
_filtered #yiv9822537137 {}
_filtered #yiv9822537137 {}
_filtered #yiv9822537137 {}
_filtered #yiv9822537137 {}
_filtered #yiv9822537137 {}
_filtered #yiv9822537137 {}
_filtered #yiv9822537137 {}
_filtered #yiv9822537137 {}
_filtered #yiv9822537137 {}
#yiv9822537137 ol
{margin-bottom:0cm;}
#yiv9822537137 ul
{margin-bottom:0cm;}
#yiv9822537137 </style><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1445820941368_9283">
<div class="yiv9822537137WordSection1" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1445820941368_9282">
<div class="yiv9822537137MsoNormal" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1445820941368_9281"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1445820941368_11810">David and all,</span></div>
<div class="yiv9822537137MsoNormal" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1445820941368_9285"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1445820941368_9284">Just for the record, there are three kinds of velocity for electromagnetic waves:</span></div>
<div class="yiv9822537137MsoListParagraph" style="" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1445820941368_9287"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;"><span style="">1)<span style="font:7.0pt;">
</span></span></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1445820941368_9286">The phase velocity, it governs refraction and as you may guess, the refractive index, n, is the material property related to it. May have any velocity,
+/- infinity. </span></div>
<div class="yiv9822537137MsoListParagraph" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1445820941368_9288"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1445820941368_11815">v_phase = omega/k</span></div>
<div class="yiv9822537137MsoListParagraph" style="" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1445820941368_9289"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1445820941368_11814"><span style="" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1445820941368_11813">2)<span style="font:7.0pt;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1445820941368_11812">
</span></span></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1445820941368_9290">The group velocity, this how fast a pulse of light moves and it is always slower than c.
</span></div>
<div class="yiv9822537137MsoListParagraph" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1445820941368_9291"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">v_group = domega/dk</span></div>
<div class="yiv9822537137MsoListParagraph" style="" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1445820941368_9293"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;"><span style="">3)<span style="font:7.0pt;">
</span></span></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1445820941368_9292">The energy transport velocity, relevant for resonant structures, always slower than c</span></div>
<div class="yiv9822537137MsoListParagraph" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1445820941368_9295"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1445820941368_9294">v_energy = see Amsterdam effect and the book by Brillouin on propagation</span></div>
<div class="yiv9822537137MsoNormal" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1445820941368_9296"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1445820941368_9297">Then (as indicated in the first point), on top of this there is the possibility of negative epsilon and mu leading to negative refractive index. This may happen
at a resonance (small bandwidth, limited response time), and is associated with so-called perfect lenses and optical cloaks. Can be made as a meta material. It amplifies the near-field (longitudinal component).</span></div>
<div class="yiv9822537137MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">I hope this helps some.</span></div>
<div class="yiv9822537137MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;">Cheers, Martin</span></div>
<div class="yiv9822537137MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;"> </span></div>
<div>
<div class="yiv9822537137MsoNormal"><span lang="DE" style="font-size:10.0pt;">Dr. Martin B. van der Mark</span><span lang="DE" style="color:navy;"></span></div>
<div class="yiv9822537137MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;">Principal Scientist, Minimally Invasive Healthcare</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;"></span></div>
<div class="yiv9822537137MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;"> </span></div>
<div class="yiv9822537137MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;">Philips Research Europe - Eindhoven</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;"></span></div>
<div class="yiv9822537137MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;">High Tech Campus, Building 34 (WB2.025)</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;"></span></div>
<div class="yiv9822537137MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;">Prof. Holstlaan 4</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;"></span></div>
<div class="yiv9822537137MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;">5656 AE Eindhoven, The Netherlands</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;"></span></div>
<div class="yiv9822537137MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;">Tel: +31 40 2747548</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt;"></span></div>
</div>
<div class="yiv9822537137MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;"> </span></div>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm;">
<div class="qtdSeparateBR"><br><br></div><div class="yiv9822537137yqt3234319069" id="yiv9822537137yqtfd09594"><div class="yiv9822537137MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;"> General [mailto:general-bounces+martin.van.der.mark=philips.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>davidmathes8@yahoo.com<br clear="none">
<b>Sent:</b> dinsdag 20 oktober 2015 1:26<br clear="none">
<b>To:</b> Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion; Richard Gauthier; Chip Akins<br clear="none">
<b>Subject:</b> [General] To Infinity and Beyond: zero phase index?</span></div>
</div></div><div class="yiv9822537137yqt3234319069" id="yiv9822537137yqtfd38455">
</div></div><div class="yiv9822537137yqt3234319069" id="yiv9822537137yqtfd20832">
<div class="yiv9822537137MsoNormal"> </div>
</div><div><div class="yiv9822537137yqt3234319069" id="yiv9822537137yqtfd38073">
<h1 style="margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:15.0pt;margin-left:0cm;background:white;">
<span style="font-size:12.0pt;">Rich, Chip, John W, Martin et al</span><span style=""></span></h1>
<h1 id="yiv9822537137yui_3_16_0_1_1445294444662_15279" style="margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:15.0pt;margin-left:0cm;background:white;">
<span style="font-size:12.0pt;">I've wondered if the photon or quanta within the confines of an electron could really travel at FTL velocities. </span><span style=""></span></h1>
<h1 id="yiv9822537137yui_3_16_0_1_1445294444662_15279" style="margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:15.0pt;margin-left:0cm;background:white;">
<span style="font-size:12.0pt;">Indeed, one of the parametric models Richard has proposed does fit known experiments to date. </span><span style=""></span></h1>
<div id="yiv9822537137yui_3_16_0_1_1445294444662_15900">
<div class="yiv9822537137MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style=""> </span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv9822537137yui_3_16_0_1_1445294444662_15899">
<div class="yiv9822537137MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="">So here is an interesting tool for experimentalists: an o</span><span style="font-size:13.5pt;">n-chip
zero-index metamaterial.</span><span style=""></span></div>
</div>
<h1 id="yiv9822537137yui_3_16_0_1_1445294444662_15279" style="margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:15.0pt;margin-left:0cm;background:white;">
<span style="font-size:12.0pt;"> </span><span style=""><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" id="yiv9822537137yui_3_16_0_1_1445294444662_15318" target="_blank" href="http://www.nature.com/nphoton/journal/vaop/ncurrent/full/nphoton.2015.198.html"><span style="font-size:12.0pt;">http://www.nature.com/nphoton/journal/vaop/ncurrent/full/nphoton.2015.198.html</span></a></span></h1>
<div id="yiv9822537137yui_3_16_0_1_1445294444662_15317">
<div class="yiv9822537137MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="">"This novel on-chip metamaterial platform opens the door to exploring the physics of zero index and its applications in integrated optics."</span><span style=""></span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv9822537137yui_3_16_0_1_1445294444662_15317">
<div class="yiv9822537137MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style=""> </span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv9822537137yui_3_16_0_1_1445294444662_15317">
<div class="yiv9822537137MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style="">Best</span></div>
</div>
<div id="yiv9822537137yui_3_16_0_1_1445294444662_15317">
<div class="yiv9822537137MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style=""> </span></div>
</div>
</div><div id="yiv9822537137yui_3_16_0_1_1445294444662_15317"><div class="yiv9822537137yqt3234319069" id="yiv9822537137yqtfd83416">
</div><div class="yiv9822537137MsoNormal" style="background:white;"><span style=""></span></div><div class="yiv9822537137yqt3234319069" id="yiv9822537137yqtfd41381">David</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<br clear="none">
<hr>
<font face="Arial" color="Gray" size="1">The information contained in this message may be confidential and legally protected under applicable law. The message is intended solely for the addressee(s). If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified
that any use, forwarding, dissemination, or reproduction of this message is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by return e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message.<div class="yiv9822537137yqt3234319069" id="yiv9822537137yqtfd74487"><br clear="none">
</div></font><div class="yiv9822537137yqt3234319069" id="yiv9822537137yqtfd25540">
</div></div></div><br>_______________________________________________<br clear="none">If you no longer wish to receive communication from the Nature of Light and Particles General Discussion List at <a shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:davidmathes8@yahoo.com" href="mailto:davidmathes8@yahoo.com">davidmathes8@yahoo.com</a><br clear="none"><a href="<a shape="rect" href="http://lists.natureoflightandparticles.org/options.cgi/general-natureoflightandparticles.org/davidmathes8%40yahoo.com?unsub=1&unsubconfirm=1" target="_blank">http://lists.natureoflightandparticles.org/options.cgi/general-natureoflightandparticles.org/davidmathes8%40yahoo.com?unsub=1&unsubconfirm=1</a>"><br clear="none">Click here to unsubscribe<div class="yqt3234319069" id="yqtfd83512"><br clear="none"></a><br clear="none"></div><br><br></div> </div> </div> </blockquote> </div></body></html>