<html><head></head><body><div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff; font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:16px"><div><span>Albrecht</span></div><div><span><br></span></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1447260730724_19583"><span id="yui_3_16_0_1_1447260730724_19582">Having read your papers, I like the particle model comments! </span></div><div><br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1447260730724_19824">As to the second, I'm wondering in what context or universe magnetic particles might emerge. Perhaps these are not fundamental particles at present. Could they be part of dark matter or energy...not likely.</div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1447260730724_19824"><br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1447260730724_19824">So if there is no elementary monopole, Dirac's symmetric approach to charge falls apart. I'm wondering what Dirac would have thought of today's asymmetries, asymptotic freedom and CP violations. </div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1447260730724_19824"><br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1447260730724_19824">Best</div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1447260730724_19824"><br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1447260730724_19824">David</div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1447260730724_19824"><br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1447260730724_19824"><br></div><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1447260730724_19818"><br></div><br> <blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255); margin-left: 5px; margin-top: 5px; padding-left: 5px;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1447260730724_19523"> <div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1447260730724_19522"> <div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size: 16px;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1447260730724_19521"> <div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1447260730724_19532"> <hr size="1"> <font size="2" face="Arial" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1447260730724_19531"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">From:</span></b> Dr. Albrecht Giese <genmail@a-giese.de><br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org <br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Wednesday, November 11, 2015 2:54 AM<br> <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [General] Reply of comments from what a model…<br> </font> </div> <div class="y_msg_container" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1447260730724_19520"><br><div id="yiv5012810035"><div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1447260730724_19533">
Hi,<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
some few comments from my side.<font color="#003300" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1447260730724_19816"> <font color="#006600" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1447260730724_19817">In green. </font></font><br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
<div class="yiv5012810035moz-cite-prefix" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1447260730724_19534">Am 09.11.2015 um 19:36 schrieb <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv5012810035moz-txt-link-abbreviated" ymailto="mailto:davidmathes8@yahoo.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:davidmathes8@yahoo.com"></a><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv5012810035moz-txt-link-abbreviated" ymailto="mailto:davidmathes8@yahoo.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:davidmathes8@yahoo.com">davidmathes8@yahoo.com</a>:<br clear="none">
</div>
<blockquote type="cite" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1447260730724_19537">
<div style="color:#000;background-color:#fff;font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:16px;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1447260730724_19536">
<div id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447090257809_4945"><span id="yui_3_16_0_1_1447260730724_20045">John H</span></div>
<div id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447090257809_4982"><span><br clear="none">
</span></div>
<div id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447090257809_4341"><br clear="none">
</div>
<div id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447090257809_4341">Since some folks see
red when I write, I'll use red for comments below</div>
<div id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447090257809_4341"><br clear="none">
</div>
<div id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447090257809_4402">David</div>
<br clear="none">
<blockquote id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447090257809_4340" style="border-left:2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255);margin-left:5px;margin-top:5px;padding-left:5px;">
<div id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447090257809_4339">
<div id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447090257809_4338">
<div dir="ltr" id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447090257809_4337" style="font-family:HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif;font-size:16px;">
<hr size="1"> <font id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447090257809_4426" size="2" face="Arial"> <b id="yui_3_16_0_1_1447260730724_19635"><span style="font-weight:bold;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1447260730724_19634">From:</span></b>
Hodge John <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv5012810035moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" ymailto="mailto:jchodge@frontier.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:jchodge@frontier.com"><jchodge@frontier.com></a><br clear="none">
<b><span style="font-weight:bold;">To:</span></b> <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv5012810035moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" ymailto="mailto:davidmathes8@yahoo.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:davidmathes8@yahoo.com"></a><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv5012810035moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" ymailto="mailto:davidmathes8@yahoo.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:davidmathes8@yahoo.com" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1447260730724_19636">"davidmathes8@yahoo.com"</a>
<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv5012810035moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" ymailto="mailto:davidmathes8@yahoo.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:davidmathes8@yahoo.com"><davidmathes8@yahoo.com></a>;
<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv5012810035moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" ymailto="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org">"general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"</a>
<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv5012810035moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" ymailto="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"><general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org></a>
<br clear="none">
<b id="yui_3_16_0_1_1447260730724_19638"><span style="font-weight:bold;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1447260730724_19637">Sent:</span></b>
Monday, November 9, 2015 9:28 AM<br clear="none">
<b><span style="font-weight:bold;">Subject:</span></b>
Re: [General] Reply of comments from what a model…<br clear="none">
</font> </div>
<div class="yiv5012810035y_msg_container" id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447090257809_4427"><br clear="none">
<div id="yiv5012810035">
<div id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447090257809_4429">
<div id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447090257809_4428" style="background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255);">
<div id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447083269911_7694" style="font-family:HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif;font-size:16px;color:rgb(0, 0, 0);"> </div>
<div class="yiv5012810035" id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447083269911_7711" style="font-family:HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif;font-size:16px;color:rgb(0, 0, 0);">Dave</div>
<div class="yiv5012810035" id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447083269911_7711" style="font-family:HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif;font-size:16px;color:rgb(0, 0, 0);"><br clear="none">
</div>
<div class="yiv5012810035" id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447083269911_7709" style="font-family:HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif;font-size:16px;color:rgb(0, 0, 0);">I’ve been thinking of the next layer for a
while now. I think I’ve gone as far a my model
will allow for the photon. Like you, my current
speculation is that there is a more elementary
particle (I call it a hod). Because photons have
different energy levels, photons are assemblies
of hods. As I mention before, elementary
particles should be assemblies of photons. I’m
finding I have to do some (a lot) of research on
elementary particles. An electron may have the
same number of hods (energy) in a different
structure.</div>
<div class="yiv5012810035" id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447083269911_7709" style="font-family:HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif;font-size:16px;color:rgb(0, 0, 0);"><br clear="none">
</div>
<div class="yiv5012810035" id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447083269911_7709" style="font-family:HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif;font-size:16px;">
<div class="yiv5012810035" id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447090257809_4341"><font id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447090257809_4921" color="#9d1811">On a personal note, I worked
a few summers to pay for college as a hod
carrier supporting brick layers and concrete
finishers in the dry desert climate of
Arizona where during August, the temperature
cools off to 95F (35C) and peaks at 115F
(46.1 C). </font></div>
<div class="yiv5012810035" dir="ltr" id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447090257809_4902" style="color:rgb(0, 0, 0);"><br clear="none">
</div>
</div>
<div class="yiv5012810035" id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447083269911_7714" style="font-family:HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif;font-size:16px;color:rgb(0, 0, 0);">The analogy is the periodic table.
Initially the periodic table was derived from
organizing chemical properties. Later the reason
for the organization was modeled aby the nuclear
structure and particle properties. Likewise, we
can classify the meson octet, the baryon octet
and the triangular decuplet and the substructure
of the triancle relationships. What kind of hod
structure (better photon structure) can produce
these relations? That is I’m looking for
“structure” as in building blocks for the
elementary particles. </div>
<div class="yiv5012810035" id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447083269911_7716" style="font-family:HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif;font-size:16px;color:rgb(0, 0, 0);"><br clear="none">
</div>
<div class="yiv5012810035" id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447083269911_7716" style="font-family:HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif;font-size:16px;color:rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<div class="yiv5012810035" id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447083269911_7718">Any
suggestions? As the periodic table suggests,
we don’t have to know all the essentials of
elementary particles - only enough to get
started.</div>
<div class="yiv5012810035" dir="ltr" id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447090257809_29794"><br clear="none" class="yiv5012810035" id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447090257809_29796">
</div>
</div>
<div class="yiv5012810035" dir="ltr" id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447083269911_7716" style="font-family:HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif;font-size:16px;"><font id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447090257809_7740" color="#9d1811">I like the two particle
electron model (Albrecht?) I have wondered
how to modify the one particle models (or wave
models) using two particles. </font></div>
<div class="yiv5012810035" dir="ltr" id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447083269911_7716" style="font-family:HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif;font-size:16px;"><font color="#9d1811"><br clear="none">
</font></div>
<div class="yiv5012810035" dir="ltr" id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447083269911_7716"><font id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447090257809_28687" color="#9d1811">Three particle structures
are difficult to think about.. That is only
the beginning of issues though. </font><span id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447090257809_28686" style="color:rgb(157, 24, 17);">The
eightfold way or sixtet structure of triangle
like particles might find a home in SUSY and
E8 which at least provide some mathematical
basis. Dark matter/energy solutions need to be
read...</span></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
<font color="#006600">A model with three particles is not possible.
It was thoroughly attempted to decompose particles like the
electron by bombardment. It was not possible. It would have been
possible for a particle built by three constituents. It would also
be possible for particles built by two constituents in the case
that the constituents would have individual mass (in contrast to
my model).<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
A model with only one particle is in my view also not possible as
it violates the conservation of momentum. A single object can
never oscillate.<br clear="none">
</font>
<blockquote type="cite" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1447260730724_19641">
<div style="color:#000;background-color:#fff;font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:16px;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1447260730724_19640">
<blockquote id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447090257809_4340" style="border-left:2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255);margin-left:5px;margin-top:5px;padding-left:5px;">
<div id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447090257809_4339">
<div id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447090257809_4338">
<div class="yiv5012810035y_msg_container" id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447090257809_4427">
<div id="yiv5012810035">
<div id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447090257809_4429">
<div id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447090257809_4428" style="background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255);">
<div class="yiv5012810035" dir="ltr" id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447083269911_7716"><span style="color:rgb(157, 24, 17);"><br clear="none">
</span></div>
<div class="yiv5012810035" dir="ltr" id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447083269911_7716"><font id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447090257809_28688" color="#9d1811">A theory of quantum
gravitation is of no help. No evidence of
gravitational waves so far, so nature is more
subtle than we can measure. </font></div>
<div class="yiv5012810035" id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447083269911_7716" style="font-family:HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif;font-size:16px;color:rgb(0, 0, 0);"><br clear="none">
</div>
<div class="yiv5012810035" id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447083269911_7722" style="font-family:HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif;font-size:16px;color:rgb(0, 0, 0);">I’m unsure I’m taking your comment
correctly. I think the standard scientists
approach is to try to “fit” the observations to
the theory rather than to find a model to
explain the observations. As I mentioned, this
results in some weird ad hoc thinking (dark
matter, Huygens-Fresnel, etc.). The good news
for physicists, the need then is to expand
(cost) the equipment and the testing. So the
mainstream has a fear of anything with a speed
> <i class="yiv5012810035" id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447083269911_7724">c.</i>
Whereas, thinking of new model involves thinking
which requires less funding. Indeed, we are
doing that now. Maybe that is why Einstein in
1905 was a patent clerk (outside the
mainstream). </div>
<div class="yiv5012810035" id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447083269911_7726" style="font-family:HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif;font-size:16px;color:rgb(0, 0, 0);"> </div>
<div class="yiv5012810035" dir="ltr" id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447083269911_7726" style="font-family:HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif;font-size:16px;"><font id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447090257809_29808" color="#9d1811">I'm unsure of some of my
comments as well. </font></div>
<div class="yiv5012810035" id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447083269911_7726" style="font-family:HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif;font-size:16px;color:rgb(0, 0, 0);"><br clear="none">
</div>
<div class="yiv5012810035" id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447083269911_7726" style="font-family:HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif;font-size:16px;">
<div class="yiv5012810035" id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447090257809_4341"><font id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447090257809_4821" color="#9d1811">The scientist or research
engineer does try to fit observation to
theory. However, there seems to be no
shortage of theories these days. Given
numerous theories for the same set of
observations, one could do a bit of reverse
science or reverse engineering and see what
theory - with attendant modeling and
simulation - fits observation. Even if a
number of models fit, like a suit, some
models will feel comfortable and other will
need tailoring. </font></div>
<div class="yiv5012810035" dir="ltr" id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447090257809_4687" style="color:rgb(0, 0, 0);"><br clear="none">
</div>
</div>
<div class="yiv5012810035" id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447083269911_7728" style="font-family:HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif;font-size:16px;color:rgb(0, 0, 0);">I think the hod carries electric field. I
don’t have a model for magnetism except it must
be some action by free hods (bound hods are
photons and particles). Indeed, why are there
only 2 charges (+ and -)? It may imply something
about the structure of hods.</div>
<div class="yiv5012810035" id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447083269911_7730" style="font-family:HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif;font-size:16px;color:rgb(0, 0, 0);"> </div>
<div class="yiv5012810035" id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447083269911_7730" style="font-family:HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif;font-size:16px;"><font id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447090257809_33125" color="#9d1811">Why only two charges...don't
know. Push and pull on a geodesic with any
off-geodesic not within the light cone...?</font></div>
<div class="yiv5012810035" id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447083269911_7730" style="font-family:HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif;font-size:16px;"><font color="#9d1811"><br clear="none">
</font></div>
<div class="yiv5012810035" id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447083269911_7730" style="font-family:HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif;font-size:16px;"><font id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447090257809_37542" color="#9d1811">Magnetism is probably more
interesting. It's everywhere and yet ignored.
We have the B-field in the photon, the
electron moves and induces a B-field, and then
there are quarks...? </font><span style="color:rgb(157, 24, 17);">An electron,
proton or neutron has a magnetic moment. One
would expect a quark to have one simply based
on charge...does it? Do sub-elementary
particles have E or B charge?</span></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
<font color="#006600">We do not have to care about magnetism when we
think about particle models. Nature has electric charges but no
magnetic charges. I have explained it earlier that magnetism is a
relativistic side effect of the electric field, so only a
perspective of the electric field seen from a certain state of
motion. It is a bit analogue to the Coriolis force. <br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
So, if there is magnetism possible, it appears by itself. We do
not have to model it.<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
Best<br clear="none">
Albrecht</font><br clear="none">
<blockquote type="cite">
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<div id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447090257809_4428" style="background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255);">
<div class="yiv5012810035" id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447083269911_7730" style="font-family:HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif;font-size:16px;"><font color="#9d1811"><br clear="none">
</font></div>
<div class="yiv5012810035" dir="ltr" id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447083269911_7730" style="font-family:HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif;font-size:16px;"><font id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447090257809_67439" color="#9d1811"> In the case of the spherical
cow, er, electron, a sub-elementary particle
may be traversing a spacetime volume within a
spacetime( various torus models also). </font><span id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447090257809_72959" style="color:rgb(157, 24, 17);">So
charge might arise from the the change in
pressure between two spacetimes.</span></div>
<div class="yiv5012810035" id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447083269911_7730" style="font-family:HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif;font-size:16px;color:rgb(0, 0, 0);"><br clear="none">
</div>
<div class="yiv5012810035" id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447083269911_7732" style="font-family:HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif;font-size:16px;color:rgb(0, 0, 0);">Whatever the philosophy of science, the
place science has in our society must be useful
to help humans survive. This implies prediction
of observations must take center stage. This
means humans must be able to model nature.
Therefore, the simpler and more inclusive model
is better. </div>
<div class="yiv5012810035" id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447083269911_7734" style="font-family:HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif;font-size:16px;color:rgb(0, 0, 0);"> </div>
<div class="yiv5012810035" dir="ltr" id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447083269911_7734" style="font-family:HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif;font-size:16px;"><font id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447090257809_61930" color="#9d1811">Whether one's philosophy of
mankind is to survive or thrive, simple often
means approximating to the minimum point where
engineers can do something (corollary to
Occam's razor)</font></div>
<div class="yiv5012810035" id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447083269911_7734" style="font-family:HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif;font-size:16px;"><br clear="none">
</div>
<div class="yiv5012810035" id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447083269911_7736" style="font-family:HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif;font-size:16px;color:rgb(0, 0, 0);">Hodge</div>
<div class="yiv5012810035" id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447083269911_7738" style="font-family:HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif;font-size:16px;color:rgb(0, 0, 0);"> </div>
<div dir="ltr" style="font-family:HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif;font-size:16px;"> </div>
<font color="#9d1811">Best</font></div>
<div id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447090257809_4428" style="background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255);"><font color="#9d1811"><br clear="none">
</font></div>
<div id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447090257809_4428" style="background-color:rgb(255, 255, 255);"><font id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447090257809_81771" color="#9d1811">David</font><br clear="none">
<div class="yiv5012810035qtdSeparateBR" id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447090257809_7716" style="font-family:HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif;font-size:16px;color:rgb(0, 0, 0);"><br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
</div>
<div class="yiv5012810035yqt0776120805" id="yiv5012810035yqt42550" style="font-family:HelveticaNeue, 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, 'Lucida Grande', sans-serif;font-size:16px;color:rgb(0, 0, 0);">
<div class="yiv5012810035yahoo_quoted" id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447090257809_57472" style="display:block;">
<div id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447090257809_57471" style="font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:16px;">
<div id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447090257809_57470" style="font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:16px;">
<div dir="ltr" id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447090257809_57469"> <font id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447090257809_57468" size="2" face="Arial"> On Sunday,
November 8, 2015 6:01 PM, <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv5012810035moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" ymailto="mailto:davidmathes8@yahoo.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:davidmathes8@yahoo.com"></a><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv5012810035moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" ymailto="mailto:davidmathes8@yahoo.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:davidmathes8@yahoo.com">"davidmathes8@yahoo.com"</a>
<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv5012810035moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" ymailto="mailto:davidmathes8@yahoo.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:davidmathes8@yahoo.com"><davidmathes8@yahoo.com></a>
wrote:<br clear="none">
</font> </div>
<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
<div class="yiv5012810035y_msg_container">
<div id="yiv5012810035">
<div>
<div style="color:#000;background-color:#fff;font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:16px;">
<div id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447019841125_12685"><span>John
H</span></div>
<div id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447019841125_12527"><span><br clear="none">
</span></div>
<div id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447019841125_12527"><span id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447019841125_13840">For the walking
drops, I agree that if EM is
not part of the solution,
there most likely will be
major issues. </span></div>
<div id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447019841125_12527"><br clear="none">
</div>
<div dir="ltr" id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447019841125_12527">Yes,
there appears to be another
level to the particle-wave
universe underneath the
elementary particle layer. Can
we distinguish whether the
electron is photonc or quanta,
or did the photon morph,
transmute or transform into
something other than a photon.
My gut says all of us should be
hammering on building another
layer. At the same time, this
won't happen from the photonic
electron but require an
understanding of quarks and
perhaps neutrinos and gluons.
And that conjecture is based on
the assumption that we know the
essentials of elementary
particles to do so. </div>
<div id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447019841125_12527"><br clear="none">
</div>
<div dir="ltr" id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447019841125_12528">As
a useful tool for physicists,
Popper falsification allows some
heavy filtering of ideas,
conjectures and musings. My view
is that falsification by one
experiment raises the bar fairly
high but does not permanently
block that line of reasoning no
matter how ill conceived,
conjectured or even fantasized
which is more of a
mathematicians approach. A lot
more rigorous work will be
required to refute falsification
of an experiment.</div>
<div dir="ltr" id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447019841125_12528"><br clear="none">
</div>
<div dir="ltr" id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447019841125_12528">Statistically,
if the experiment has been done
correctly and not
misinterpreted, the odds and
therefore the risk of repeating
the experiment go up if only for
research budget purposes. In
order to challenge a
falsification, the history and
context of assumptions, and
boundary conditions need to be
clearly understood for the
experiment, the theory the
experiment is testing, and the
equipment being used.</div>
<div dir="ltr" id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447019841125_12528"><br clear="none">
</div>
<div class="yiv5012810035" dir="ltr" id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447019841125_12529">Can
we falsify whether it's EM or
E&M? The physicists seem to
say EM while the engineer says
E&M. The simple fact is that
under certain conditions E and M
are closely coupled. There are
two views that are possible: EM
and E&M. EM is one, united
and inseparable. The other is
that E&M are to be treated
as separable and closely coupled
under certain conditions
(photon) . Now, both views rely
on the same equations whether
they be the Maxwell 20
(original), Maxwell Heaviside
(4), Dirac symmetric version- or
Barrett extensions - SU(N).
Each can be expressed
mathematically by in vector,
tensor, differential or
quaternion forms. </div>
<div class="yiv5012810035" dir="ltr" id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447019841125_12529"><br clear="none">
</div>
<div class="yiv5012810035" dir="ltr" id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447019841125_12529">Given
that a mainstream approach
seriously limits inquiry by a
fear of exceeding the speed of
light, the uncertainty of
measurement, and the strong
doubt cast by the shadow of
Popper falsifiability, one is
left to wonder if physicists
have painted themselves and the
rest of science into a corner. </div>
<div dir="ltr" id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447019841125_12529"><br clear="none">
</div>
<div dir="ltr" id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447019841125_12529">What
is puzzling to me is that Dirac
equations predicted successfully
antimatter (positron) but to
date, the monopole has not
emerged in experiments. Can the
monopole be falsified? Can the
quark?</div>
<div dir="ltr" id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447019841125_12529"><br clear="none">
</div>
<div dir="ltr" id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447019841125_12529">Then
again, despite various theories,
for elementary particles there
remains one key question..."what
is the source of charge". </div>
<div dir="ltr" id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447019841125_12529"><br clear="none">
</div>
<div class="yiv5012810035" dir="ltr" id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447019841125_12528">Essentially,
an experimenter "...has got to
know their limits." (Clint
Eastwood, Dirty Harry). </div>
<div class="yiv5012810035" dir="ltr" id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447019841125_13778"><br clear="none" class="yiv5012810035" id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447019841125_13780">
</div>
<div class="yiv5012810035" dir="ltr" id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447019841125_13778">"Subtle
is the Lrd." A Einstein<br clear="none">
</div>
<div class="yiv5012810035" dir="ltr" id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447019841125_13778"><br clear="none">
</div>
<div class="yiv5012810035" dir="ltr" id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447019841125_13778">YMMV</div>
<div class="yiv5012810035" dir="ltr" id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447019841125_13778"><br clear="none">
</div>
<div class="yiv5012810035" dir="ltr" id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447019841125_13778">Best
regards</div>
<div class="yiv5012810035" dir="ltr" id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447019841125_13778"><br clear="none">
</div>
<div class="yiv5012810035" dir="ltr" id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447019841125_13778">David</div>
<div id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447019841125_12496"><br clear="none">
</div>
<br clear="none">
<blockquote id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447019841125_12454" style="border-left:2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255);margin-left:5px;margin-top:5px;padding-left:5px;">
<div id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447019841125_12453" style="font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:16px;">
<div id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447019841125_12452" style="font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:16px;">
<div class="yiv5012810035yqt5142129093" id="yiv5012810035yqt92455">
<div dir="ltr" id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447019841125_12451">
<hr id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447019841125_12450" size="1"> <font id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447019841125_12455" size="2" face="Arial">
<b id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447019841125_12538"><span id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447019841125_12537" style="font-weight:bold;">From:</span></b>
Hodge John <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv5012810035moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" ymailto="mailto:jchodge@frontier.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:jchodge@frontier.com"></a><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv5012810035moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" ymailto="mailto:jchodge@frontier.com" target="_blank" href="mailto:jchodge@frontier.com"><jchodge@frontier.com></a><br clear="none">
<b id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447019841125_12540"><span id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447019841125_12539" style="font-weight:bold;">To:</span></b>
<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv5012810035moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" ymailto="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"></a><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv5012810035moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" ymailto="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org">"general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"</a>
<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv5012810035moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" ymailto="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"></a><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" class="yiv5012810035moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" ymailto="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" target="_blank" href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"><general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org></a>
<br clear="none">
<b><span style="font-weight:bold;">Sent:</span></b>
Sunday, November 8,
2015 11:05 AM<br clear="none">
<b id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447019841125_12536"><span id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447019841125_12535" style="font-weight:bold;">Subject:</span></b>
[General] Reply of
comments from what a
model…<br clear="none">
</font> </div>
<div class="yiv5012810035y_msg_container" id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447019841125_12532"><br clear="none">
<div id="yiv5012810035">
<div id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447019841125_12534">
<div id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447019841125_12533" style="color:#000;background-color:#fff;font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:16px;">
<div id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447009445155_2496">
</div>
<div class="yiv5012810035" id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447009445155_2562">David</div>
<div class="yiv5012810035" id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447009445155_2564">Thanks for the
thought.</div>
<div class="yiv5012810035" id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447009445155_2566">You seem to be more
familiar with
Popper than I. I
thought Popper
dealt with
“refutation” in
connection with
models and
ability to be
falsified as
being a
requirement for
a model to be a
“scientific”. If
evolution cannot
be falsified,
then wouldn’t
Popper consider
it not a
science? But
evolution did
predict fossils
of evolving
species would be
found. </div>
<div class="yiv5012810035" id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447009445155_2568">A single experiment is
enough to reject
a (hypothesis)
theory within
some domain.
Both quantum
mechanics and
cosmology reject
each other in
the domain of a
ToE. The comment
was trying to
suggest that the
inability of a
model to explain
an experiment
within the
domain that the
model is
supposed to
apply is cause
for rejection. A
“null” result is
a “no test” done
result. For
example, Galileo
tried to find
parallax in
stars to support
the heliocentric
model. He had a
null result that
resulted in some
trouble with the
Church. More
accurate
equipment in the
1830s finally
saw parallax and
heliocentricism
was accepted.
The same is true
in the case of
the
Michelson–Morley<b class="yiv5012810035" id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447009445155_2570">
</b>experiment.
</div>
<div class="yiv5012810035" id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447009445155_2572"> </div>
<div class="yiv5012810035" id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447009445155_2574">(see also John W
comment where he
agrees with
David) The
deviations from
expectaion in
experiments have
lead to finding
several emergent
properties of
nature. Indeed,
deviation for
expectation
causes the
postulate of
hidden variables
rather than
suggesting lack
of a proper
model. Further,
the finding of
data that is
poorly explained
is an indication
of the need for
a new model.
Sometime the new
data is so
radical, a
complete rethink
is needed. Until
that is done, ad
hoc additions
are made such as
Dark Energy,
Dark Mass,
inflation, etc
and models
become very
complex. So, I
suggest,
simplification
is needed but
simplification
usually requires
redefinition of
what is basic. </div>
<div class="yiv5012810035" id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447009445155_2576"> </div>
<div class="yiv5012810035" id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447009445155_2578">I’m unsure of your
interpretation
of the
Uncertainty
Principle as an
experimental
error. I had
understood the
photoelectric
effect
measurement of
energy vs
frequency (slope
<i class="yiv5012810035" id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447009445155_2580">h</i>) to have steps
in the linear
relationship.
The idea of
steps suggests
the quanta and
the
non-existence of
an inbetween
state. The
measurement was
well within the
experimental
error. That is
it’s not so much
a tool limit as
a fundamental
existence limit.</div>
<div class="yiv5012810035" id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447009445155_2582"> </div>
<div class="yiv5012810035" id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447009445155_2584"> </div>
<div class="yiv5012810035" id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447009445155_2586">Richard</div>
<div class="yiv5012810035" id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447009445155_2588">Thanks</div>
<div class="yiv5012810035" id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447009445155_2590">In my opinion, our
instruments
detect matter
not the waves.
The waves in the
fluid is the
fluid of the
underlying
tension of the
molecules. </div>
<div class="yiv5012810035" id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447009445155_2592"> </div>
<div class="yiv5012810035" id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447009445155_2594">I think the matter
photon is guided
by the pilot
wave. If you are
you using “wave
function” to
mean the
probability
energy density,
probability
functions don’t
“guide”.
However, I
suggest (and I
think Bohm does,
too) the the
pilot wave is
real and the
\Psi ^* \Psi is
a characteristic
of the pilot
wave and not a
probability
function. The
nest step is to
suggest what the
\Psi^* is in
reality. Photons
need a property
of coherence for
diffraction to
occur. The
nature of
coherence is
unknown. I
suggest the Bohm
interpretation
is suggesting
photons do
require guidance
to the screen if
an interference
pattern is
noted. At least
in my model
pilot waves
exist (are real)
for both
electrons and
photons. </div>
<div class="yiv5012810035" id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447009445155_2596"> </div>
<div class="yiv5012810035" id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447009445155_2598"> </div>
<div class="yiv5012810035" id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447009445155_2600">John W</div>
<div class="yiv5012810035" id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447009445155_2602"> </div>
<div class="yiv5012810035" id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447009445155_2604">The Bohm Interpretaion
was under
discussion a bit
ago. The
statement about
source was
directed to the
Bohm model.
Certainly, other
models have
similar problem
with the source
of their action
and
particularity
where is the
energy for the
interaction
coming from or
does the
interaction
involve no net
gain or loss. </div>
<div class="yiv5012810035" id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447009445155_2606"> </div>
<div class="yiv5012810035" id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447009445155_2608">I like the idea of a
single entity in
an experiment at
a time or, at
least, one
entity beyond
the mask.
However, I allow
the possibility
that the
determination of
one entity in
the experiment
at a time could
be the result of
averaging of a
pulse with fewer
pulses. </div>
<div class="yiv5012810035" id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447009445155_2610"> </div>
<div class="yiv5012810035" id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447009445155_2612">I think you are using
“dimension” to
mean
mathematical
parameters. I
use “dimension”
to mean real
special extents
(limit 3). I’m
unsure how to
classify time.
At any special
point there
could be scalar
or vector or
tensor values
mathematically.
However, I like
the scalar model
because the
forces can be
vectors (tensor)
through
divergence. The
electromagnetic
comments beg the
question “What
are the basic
constituents of
the universe?
Simpler but yet
complete is
better. I
suggest a
continuous and
matter like
Bohm. What are
your basic? I’m
left with
explaining
electromagnetism
with the
interaction of
the 2
components.<span class="yiv5012810035" id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447009445155_2614" style=""> </span></div>
<div class="yiv5012810035" id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447009445155_2616"> </div>
<div class="yiv5012810035" id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447009445155_2618">Although the walking
drop analogy is
limited, it does
produce the
interference
pattern. So the
question becomes
what
characteristics
of the walking
drop
observations
produce
diffraction -
energy input
need not be one
of them. If the
walking drop
doesn’t involve
electromagnetism,
I think a model
based on
electromagnetism
has difficulty.
</div>
<div class="yiv5012810035" id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447009445155_2620"> </div>
<div class="yiv5012810035" id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447009445155_2622">“Space” can have no
mass - the boat
and water were
analogies in the
classical realm.</div>
<div class="yiv5012810035" id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447009445155_2624"> </div>
<div class="yiv5012810035" id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447009445155_2626">The y and y* were
translated
incorrectly.
They were meant
to be \Psi and
\Psi*. However,
You hit on the
same realization
I did - that the
\Psi* is just
the part of a
standing wave in
the Transaction
Interpretation
of the wave
returning to the
source (the
particle) rather
than the future
wave manifest in
the present.
This could
provide the Bohm
requirement of
“reality” to the
\Psi. </div>
<div class="yiv5012810035" id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447009445155_2628"> </div>
<div class="yiv5012810035" id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447009445155_2630">Please provide a
reference for
your / Martin’s
paper to which
you are
referring.</div>
<div class="yiv5012810035" id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447009445155_2632"> </div>
<div class="yiv5012810035" id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447009445155_2634">Although I haven’t
read you paper,
perhaps my
experiment in my
last paper is
such an example.
It is if it
relies upon
Huygens-Fresnel.</div>
<div class="yiv5012810035" id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447009445155_2636"> </div>
<div class="yiv5012810035" id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447009445155_2638">Thanks for your
comments. </div>
<div class="yiv5012810035" id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447009445155_2640"> </div>
<div class="yiv5012810035" id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447009445155_2642">Hodge</div>
<div class="yiv5012810035" id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447009445155_2644"> </div>
<div dir="ltr"> </div>
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