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    Hi David,<br>
    <br>
    thanks for your response. But, which kind of comments do you like?<br>
    <br>
    Regarding magnetism: There are no magnetic particles. For magnetism
    there is a nice video from veritasium. I recommend to anyone who is
    interested in magnetism to view this video. It is very much
    entertaining and even though physically correct.<br>
    <br>
    <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1TKSfAkWWN0">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1TKSfAkWWN0</a><br>
    <br>
    As far as I know, the electron theory of Paul Dirac which magnetic
    monopoles. (That is what I have read.)  That confuses me a lot
    because at the time of Dirac the origin of magnetism was already
    understood. <br>
    <br>
    Where do you see a requirement for the generation of magnetic
    particles? There are electric particles (like the electron) and when
    such particle has an internal motion / oscillation, it has
    necessarily magnetism as a consequence of special relativity.<br>
    <br>
    I do not see any connection to dark matter or dark energy. According
    to my model, dark matter are in fact photons. This can be
    quantitatively confirmed if we assume that gravity is not caused by
    mass. (Look at <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.ag-physics.org/gravity">www.ag-physics.org/gravity</a> ).<br>
    <br>
    Dark energy is in my view a very simple phenomenon. If we accept
    that in former times the speed of light c did have a slightly
    greater value, then the result of Doppler evaluation is that the old
    supernovae did have a higher speed, and there is no acceleration to
    be assumed.<br>
    <br>
    Best<br>
    Albrecht<br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 11.11.2015 um 19:12 schrieb
      <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:davidmathes8@yahoo.com">davidmathes8@yahoo.com</a>:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote
cite="mid:1131621447.3383246.1447265552357.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com"
      type="cite">
      <div style="color:#000; background-color:#fff;
        font-family:HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial,
        Lucida Grande, sans-serif;font-size:16px">
        <div><span>Albrecht</span></div>
        <div><span><br>
          </span></div>
        <div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1447260730724_19583"><span
            id="yui_3_16_0_1_1447260730724_19582">Having read your
            papers, I like the particle model comments! </span></div>
        <div><br>
        </div>
        <div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1447260730724_19824">As to the second, I'm
          wondering in what context or universe magnetic particles might
          emerge. Perhaps these are not fundamental particles at
          present. Could they be part of dark matter or energy...not
          likely.</div>
        <div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1447260730724_19824"><br>
        </div>
        <div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1447260730724_19824">So if there is no
          elementary monopole, Dirac's symmetric approach to charge
           falls apart. I'm wondering what Dirac would have thought of
          today's asymmetries, asymptotic freedom and CP violations. </div>
        <div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1447260730724_19824"><br>
        </div>
        <div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1447260730724_19824">Best</div>
        <div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1447260730724_19824"><br>
        </div>
        <div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1447260730724_19824">David</div>
        <div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1447260730724_19824"><br>
        </div>
        <div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1447260730724_19824"><br>
        </div>
        <div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1447260730724_19818"><br>
        </div>
        <br>
        <blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255);
          margin-left: 5px; margin-top: 5px; padding-left: 5px;"
          id="yui_3_16_0_1_1447260730724_19523">
          <div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue,
            Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size:
            16px;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1447260730724_19522">
            <div style="font-family: HelveticaNeue, Helvetica Neue,
              Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande, sans-serif; font-size:
              16px;" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1447260730724_19521">
              <div dir="ltr" id="yui_3_16_0_1_1447260730724_19532">
                <hr size="1"> <font
                  id="yui_3_16_0_1_1447260730724_19531" size="2"
                  face="Arial"> <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">From:</span></b>
                  Dr. Albrecht Giese <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:genmail@a-giese.de"><genmail@a-giese.de></a><br>
                  <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b>
                  <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org">general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a> <br>
                  <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b>
                  Wednesday, November 11, 2015 2:54 AM<br>
                  <b><span style="font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b>
                  Re: [General] Reply of comments from what a model…<br>
                </font> </div>
              <div class="y_msg_container"
                id="yui_3_16_0_1_1447260730724_19520"><br>
                <div id="yiv5012810035">
                  <div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1447260730724_19533"> Hi,<br
                      clear="none">
                    <br clear="none">
                    some few comments from my side.<font
                      id="yui_3_16_0_1_1447260730724_19816"
                      color="#003300"> <font
                        id="yui_3_16_0_1_1447260730724_19817"
                        color="#006600">In green. </font></font><br
                      clear="none">
                    <br clear="none">
                    <div class="yiv5012810035moz-cite-prefix"
                      id="yui_3_16_0_1_1447260730724_19534">Am
                      09.11.2015 um 19:36 schrieb <a
                        moz-do-not-send="true" rel="nofollow"
                        shape="rect"
                        class="yiv5012810035moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
                        ymailto="mailto:davidmathes8@yahoo.com"
                        target="_blank"
                        href="mailto:davidmathes8@yahoo.com"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:davidmathes8@yahoo.com">davidmathes8@yahoo.com</a></a>:<br
                        clear="none">
                    </div>
                    <blockquote type="cite"
                      id="yui_3_16_0_1_1447260730724_19537">
                      <div
                        style="color:#000;background-color:#fff;font-family:HelveticaNeue,
                        Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande,
                        sans-serif;font-size:16px;"
                        id="yui_3_16_0_1_1447260730724_19536">
                        <div
                          id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447090257809_4945"><span
                            id="yui_3_16_0_1_1447260730724_20045">John H</span></div>
                        <div
                          id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447090257809_4982"><span><br
                              clear="none">
                          </span></div>
                        <div
                          id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447090257809_4341"><br
                            clear="none">
                        </div>
                        <div
                          id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447090257809_4341">Since
                          some folks see red when I write, I'll use red
                          for comments below</div>
                        <div
                          id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447090257809_4341"><br
                            clear="none">
                        </div>
                        <div
                          id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447090257809_4402">David</div>
                        <br clear="none">
                        <blockquote
                          id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447090257809_4340"
                          style="border-left:2px solid rgb(16, 16,
                          255);margin-left:5px;margin-top:5px;padding-left:5px;">
                          <div
                            id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447090257809_4339">
                            <div
                              id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447090257809_4338">
                              <div dir="ltr"
                                id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447090257809_4337"
                                style="font-family:HelveticaNeue,
                                'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial,
                                'Lucida Grande',
                                sans-serif;font-size:16px;">
                                <hr size="1"> <font
                                  id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447090257809_4426"
                                  size="2" face="Arial"> <b
                                    id="yui_3_16_0_1_1447260730724_19635"><span
                                      style="font-weight:bold;"
                                      id="yui_3_16_0_1_1447260730724_19634">From:</span></b>
                                  Hodge John <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                                    rel="nofollow" shape="rect"
                                    class="yiv5012810035moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
ymailto="mailto:jchodge@frontier.com" target="_blank"
                                    href="mailto:jchodge@frontier.com"><jchodge@frontier.com></a><br
                                    clear="none">
                                  <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">To:</span></b>
                                  <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                                    rel="nofollow" shape="rect"
                                    class="yiv5012810035moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
ymailto="mailto:davidmathes8@yahoo.com" target="_blank"
                                    href="mailto:davidmathes8@yahoo.com"
id="yui_3_16_0_1_1447260730724_19636">"davidmathes8@yahoo.com"</a> <a
                                    moz-do-not-send="true"
                                    rel="nofollow" shape="rect"
                                    class="yiv5012810035moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
ymailto="mailto:davidmathes8@yahoo.com" target="_blank"
                                    href="mailto:davidmathes8@yahoo.com"><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:davidmathes8@yahoo.com"><davidmathes8@yahoo.com></a></a>;
                                  <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                                    rel="nofollow" shape="rect"
                                    class="yiv5012810035moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
ymailto="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"
                                    target="_blank"
                                    href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org">"general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"</a>
                                  <a moz-do-not-send="true"
                                    rel="nofollow" shape="rect"
                                    class="yiv5012810035moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
ymailto="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"
                                    target="_blank"
                                    href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"><general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org></a>
                                  <br clear="none">
                                  <b
                                    id="yui_3_16_0_1_1447260730724_19638"><span
                                      style="font-weight:bold;"
                                      id="yui_3_16_0_1_1447260730724_19637">Sent:</span></b>
                                  Monday, November 9, 2015 9:28 AM<br
                                    clear="none">
                                  <b><span style="font-weight:bold;">Subject:</span></b>
                                  Re: [General] Reply of comments from
                                  what a model…<br clear="none">
                                </font> </div>
                              <div class="yiv5012810035y_msg_container"
id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447090257809_4427"><br clear="none">
                                <div id="yiv5012810035">
                                  <div
                                    id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447090257809_4429">
                                    <div
                                      id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447090257809_4428"
                                      style="background-color:rgb(255,
                                      255, 255);">
                                      <div
                                        id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447083269911_7694"
                                        style="font-family:HelveticaNeue,
                                        'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica,
                                        Arial, 'Lucida Grande',
                                        sans-serif;font-size:16px;color:rgb(0,
                                        0, 0);"> </div>
                                      <div class="yiv5012810035"
                                        id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447083269911_7711"
                                        style="font-family:HelveticaNeue,
                                        'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica,
                                        Arial, 'Lucida Grande',
                                        sans-serif;font-size:16px;color:rgb(0,
                                        0, 0);">Dave</div>
                                      <div class="yiv5012810035"
                                        id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447083269911_7711"
                                        style="font-family:HelveticaNeue,
                                        'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica,
                                        Arial, 'Lucida Grande',
                                        sans-serif;font-size:16px;color:rgb(0,
                                        0, 0);"><br clear="none">
                                      </div>
                                      <div class="yiv5012810035"
                                        id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447083269911_7709"
                                        style="font-family:HelveticaNeue,
                                        'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica,
                                        Arial, 'Lucida Grande',
                                        sans-serif;font-size:16px;color:rgb(0,
                                        0, 0);">I’ve been thinking of
                                        the next layer for a while now.
                                        I think I’ve gone as far a my
                                        model will allow for the photon.
                                        Like you, my current speculation
                                        is that there is a more
                                        elementary particle (I call it a
                                        hod). Because photons have
                                        different energy levels, photons
                                        are assemblies of hods. As I
                                        mention before, elementary
                                        particles should be assemblies
                                        of photons. I’m finding I have
                                        to do some (a lot) of research
                                        on elementary particles. An
                                        electron may have the same
                                        number of hods (energy) in a
                                        different structure.</div>
                                      <div class="yiv5012810035"
                                        id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447083269911_7709"
                                        style="font-family:HelveticaNeue,
                                        'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica,
                                        Arial, 'Lucida Grande',
                                        sans-serif;font-size:16px;color:rgb(0,
                                        0, 0);"><br clear="none">
                                      </div>
                                      <div class="yiv5012810035"
                                        id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447083269911_7709"
                                        style="font-family:HelveticaNeue,
                                        'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica,
                                        Arial, 'Lucida Grande',
                                        sans-serif;font-size:16px;">
                                        <div class="yiv5012810035"
                                          id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447090257809_4341"><font
id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447090257809_4921" color="#9d1811">On a
                                            personal note, I worked a
                                            few summers to pay for
                                            college as a hod carrier
                                            supporting brick layers and
                                            concrete finishers in the
                                            dry desert climate of
                                            Arizona where during August,
                                            the temperature cools off to
                                            95F (35C) and peaks  at 115F
                                            (46.1 C). </font></div>
                                        <div class="yiv5012810035"
                                          dir="ltr"
                                          id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447090257809_4902"
                                          style="color:rgb(0, 0, 0);"><br
                                            clear="none">
                                        </div>
                                      </div>
                                      <div class="yiv5012810035"
                                        id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447083269911_7714"
                                        style="font-family:HelveticaNeue,
                                        'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica,
                                        Arial, 'Lucida Grande',
                                        sans-serif;font-size:16px;color:rgb(0,
                                        0, 0);">The analogy is the
                                        periodic table. Initially the
                                        periodic table was derived from
                                        organizing chemical properties.
                                        Later the reason for the
                                        organization was modeled aby the
                                        nuclear structure and particle
                                        properties. Likewise, we can
                                        classify the meson octet, the
                                        baryon octet and the triangular
                                        decuplet and the substructure of
                                        the triancle relationships. What
                                        kind of hod structure (better
                                        photon structure) can produce
                                        these relations? That is I’m
                                        looking for “structure” as in
                                        building blocks for the
                                        elementary particles. </div>
                                      <div class="yiv5012810035"
                                        id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447083269911_7716"
                                        style="font-family:HelveticaNeue,
                                        'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica,
                                        Arial, 'Lucida Grande',
                                        sans-serif;font-size:16px;color:rgb(0,
                                        0, 0);"><br clear="none">
                                      </div>
                                      <div class="yiv5012810035"
                                        id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447083269911_7716"
                                        style="font-family:HelveticaNeue,
                                        'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica,
                                        Arial, 'Lucida Grande',
                                        sans-serif;font-size:16px;color:rgb(0,
                                        0, 0);">
                                        <div class="yiv5012810035"
                                          id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447083269911_7718">Any


                                          suggestions? As the periodic
                                          table suggests, we don’t have
                                          to know all the essentials of
                                          elementary particles - only
                                          enough to get started.</div>
                                        <div class="yiv5012810035"
                                          dir="ltr"
                                          id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447090257809_29794"><br
                                            class="yiv5012810035"
                                            id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447090257809_29796"
                                            clear="none">
                                        </div>
                                      </div>
                                      <div class="yiv5012810035"
                                        dir="ltr"
                                        id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447083269911_7716"
                                        style="font-family:HelveticaNeue,
                                        'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica,
                                        Arial, 'Lucida Grande',
                                        sans-serif;font-size:16px;"><font
id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447090257809_7740" color="#9d1811">I like
                                          the two particle electron
                                          model (Albrecht?) I  have
                                          wondered how to modify the one
                                          particle models (or wave
                                          models) using two particles. </font></div>
                                      <div class="yiv5012810035"
                                        dir="ltr"
                                        id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447083269911_7716"
                                        style="font-family:HelveticaNeue,
                                        'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica,
                                        Arial, 'Lucida Grande',
                                        sans-serif;font-size:16px;"><font
                                          color="#9d1811"><br
                                            clear="none">
                                        </font></div>
                                      <div class="yiv5012810035"
                                        dir="ltr"
                                        id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447083269911_7716"><font
id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447090257809_28687" color="#9d1811">Three
                                          particle structures
                                          are difficult to think about..
                                          That is only the beginning of
                                          issues though. </font><span
                                          id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447090257809_28686"
                                          style="color:rgb(157, 24,
                                          17);">The eightfold way or
                                          sixtet structure of triangle
                                          like particles might find a
                                          home in SUSY and E8 which at
                                          least provide some
                                          mathematical basis. Dark
                                          matter/energy solutions need
                                          to be read...</span></div>
                                    </div>
                                  </div>
                                </div>
                              </div>
                            </div>
                          </div>
                        </blockquote>
                      </div>
                    </blockquote>
                    <font color="#006600">A model with three particles
                      is not possible. It was thoroughly attempted to
                      decompose particles like the electron by
                      bombardment. It was not possible. It would have
                      been possible for a particle built by three
                      constituents. It would also be possible for
                      particles built by two constituents in the case
                      that the constituents would have individual mass
                      (in contrast to my model).<br clear="none">
                      <br clear="none">
                      A model with only one particle is in my view also
                      not possible as it violates the conservation of
                      momentum. A single object can never oscillate.<br
                        clear="none">
                    </font>
                    <blockquote type="cite"
                      id="yui_3_16_0_1_1447260730724_19641">
                      <div
                        style="color:#000;background-color:#fff;font-family:HelveticaNeue,
                        Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande,
                        sans-serif;font-size:16px;"
                        id="yui_3_16_0_1_1447260730724_19640">
                        <blockquote
                          id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447090257809_4340"
                          style="border-left:2px solid rgb(16, 16,
                          255);margin-left:5px;margin-top:5px;padding-left:5px;">
                          <div
                            id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447090257809_4339">
                            <div
                              id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447090257809_4338">
                              <div class="yiv5012810035y_msg_container"
id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447090257809_4427">
                                <div id="yiv5012810035">
                                  <div
                                    id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447090257809_4429">
                                    <div
                                      id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447090257809_4428"
                                      style="background-color:rgb(255,
                                      255, 255);">
                                      <div class="yiv5012810035"
                                        dir="ltr"
                                        id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447083269911_7716"><span
                                          style="color:rgb(157, 24,
                                          17);"><br clear="none">
                                        </span></div>
                                      <div class="yiv5012810035"
                                        dir="ltr"
                                        id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447083269911_7716"><font
id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447090257809_28688" color="#9d1811">A
                                          theory of quantum gravitation
                                          is of no help. No evidence of
                                          gravitational waves so far, so
                                          nature is more subtle than we
                                          can measure. </font></div>
                                      <div class="yiv5012810035"
                                        id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447083269911_7716"
                                        style="font-family:HelveticaNeue,
                                        'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica,
                                        Arial, 'Lucida Grande',
                                        sans-serif;font-size:16px;color:rgb(0,
                                        0, 0);"><br clear="none">
                                      </div>
                                      <div class="yiv5012810035"
                                        id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447083269911_7722"
                                        style="font-family:HelveticaNeue,
                                        'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica,
                                        Arial, 'Lucida Grande',
                                        sans-serif;font-size:16px;color:rgb(0,
                                        0, 0);">I’m unsure I’m taking
                                        your comment correctly. I think
                                        the standard scientists approach
                                        is to try to “fit” the
                                        observations to the theory
                                        rather than to find a model to
                                        explain the observations. As I
                                        mentioned, this results in some
                                        weird ad hoc thinking (dark
                                        matter, Huygens-Fresnel, etc.).
                                        The good news for physicists,
                                        the need then is to expand
                                        (cost) the equipment and the
                                        testing. So the mainstream has a
                                        fear of anything with a speed
                                        > <i class="yiv5012810035"
                                          id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447083269911_7724">c.</i>
                                        Whereas, thinking of new model
                                        involves thinking which requires
                                        less funding. Indeed, we are
                                        doing that now. Maybe that is
                                        why Einstein in 1905 was a
                                        patent clerk (outside the
                                        mainstream). </div>
                                      <div class="yiv5012810035"
                                        id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447083269911_7726"
                                        style="font-family:HelveticaNeue,
                                        'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica,
                                        Arial, 'Lucida Grande',
                                        sans-serif;font-size:16px;color:rgb(0,
                                        0, 0);"> </div>
                                      <div class="yiv5012810035"
                                        dir="ltr"
                                        id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447083269911_7726"
                                        style="font-family:HelveticaNeue,
                                        'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica,
                                        Arial, 'Lucida Grande',
                                        sans-serif;font-size:16px;"><font
id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447090257809_29808" color="#9d1811">I'm
                                          unsure of some of my comments
                                          as well. </font></div>
                                      <div class="yiv5012810035"
                                        id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447083269911_7726"
                                        style="font-family:HelveticaNeue,
                                        'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica,
                                        Arial, 'Lucida Grande',
                                        sans-serif;font-size:16px;color:rgb(0,
                                        0, 0);"><br clear="none">
                                      </div>
                                      <div class="yiv5012810035"
                                        id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447083269911_7726"
                                        style="font-family:HelveticaNeue,
                                        'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica,
                                        Arial, 'Lucida Grande',
                                        sans-serif;font-size:16px;">
                                        <div class="yiv5012810035"
                                          id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447090257809_4341"><font
id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447090257809_4821" color="#9d1811">The
                                            scientist or research
                                            engineer does try to fit
                                            observation to theory.
                                            However, there seems to be
                                            no shortage of theories
                                            these days. Given numerous
                                            theories for the same set of
                                            observations, one could do a
                                            bit of reverse science or
                                            reverse engineering and see
                                            what theory - with attendant
                                            modeling and simulation -
                                            fits observation. Even if a
                                            number of models fit, like a
                                            suit, some models will feel
                                            comfortable and other will
                                            need tailoring. </font></div>
                                        <div class="yiv5012810035"
                                          dir="ltr"
                                          id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447090257809_4687"
                                          style="color:rgb(0, 0, 0);"><br
                                            clear="none">
                                        </div>
                                      </div>
                                      <div class="yiv5012810035"
                                        id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447083269911_7728"
                                        style="font-family:HelveticaNeue,
                                        'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica,
                                        Arial, 'Lucida Grande',
                                        sans-serif;font-size:16px;color:rgb(0,
                                        0, 0);">I think the hod carries
                                        electric field. I don’t have a
                                        model for magnetism except it
                                        must be some action by free hods
                                        (bound hods are photons and
                                        particles). Indeed, why are
                                        there only 2 charges (+ and -)?
                                        It may imply something about the
                                        structure of hods.</div>
                                      <div class="yiv5012810035"
                                        id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447083269911_7730"
                                        style="font-family:HelveticaNeue,
                                        'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica,
                                        Arial, 'Lucida Grande',
                                        sans-serif;font-size:16px;color:rgb(0,
                                        0, 0);"> </div>
                                      <div class="yiv5012810035"
                                        id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447083269911_7730"
                                        style="font-family:HelveticaNeue,
                                        'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica,
                                        Arial, 'Lucida Grande',
                                        sans-serif;font-size:16px;"><font
id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447090257809_33125" color="#9d1811">Why
                                          only two charges...don't know.
                                          Push and pull on a geodesic
                                          with any off-geodesic not
                                          within the light cone...?</font></div>
                                      <div class="yiv5012810035"
                                        id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447083269911_7730"
                                        style="font-family:HelveticaNeue,
                                        'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica,
                                        Arial, 'Lucida Grande',
                                        sans-serif;font-size:16px;"><font
                                          color="#9d1811"><br
                                            clear="none">
                                        </font></div>
                                      <div class="yiv5012810035"
                                        id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447083269911_7730"
                                        style="font-family:HelveticaNeue,
                                        'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica,
                                        Arial, 'Lucida Grande',
                                        sans-serif;font-size:16px;"><font
id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447090257809_37542" color="#9d1811">Magnetism
                                          is probably more interesting.
                                          It's everywhere and yet
                                          ignored. We have the B-field
                                          in the photon, the electron
                                          moves and induces a B-field,
                                          and then there are quarks...? </font><span
                                          style="color:rgb(157, 24,
                                          17);">An electron, proton or
                                          neutron has a magnetic moment.
                                          One would expect a quark to
                                          have one simply based on
                                          charge...does it? Do
                                          sub-elementary particles have
                                          E or B charge?</span></div>
                                    </div>
                                  </div>
                                </div>
                              </div>
                            </div>
                          </div>
                        </blockquote>
                      </div>
                    </blockquote>
                    <font color="#006600">We do not have to care about
                      magnetism when we think about particle models.
                      Nature has electric charges but no magnetic
                      charges. I have explained it earlier that
                      magnetism is a relativistic side effect of the
                      electric field, so only a perspective of the
                      electric field seen from a certain state of
                      motion. It is a bit analogue to the Coriolis
                      force. <br clear="none">
                      <br clear="none">
                      So, if there is magnetism possible, it appears by
                      itself. We do not have to model it.<br
                        clear="none">
                      <br clear="none">
                      Best<br clear="none">
                      Albrecht</font><br clear="none">
                    <blockquote type="cite">
                      <div
                        style="color:#000;background-color:#fff;font-family:HelveticaNeue,
                        Helvetica Neue, Helvetica, Arial, Lucida Grande,
                        sans-serif;font-size:16px;">
                        <blockquote
                          id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447090257809_4340"
                          style="border-left:2px solid rgb(16, 16,
                          255);margin-left:5px;margin-top:5px;padding-left:5px;">
                          <div
                            id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447090257809_4339">
                            <div
                              id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447090257809_4338">
                              <div class="yiv5012810035y_msg_container"
id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447090257809_4427">
                                <div id="yiv5012810035">
                                  <div
                                    id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447090257809_4429">
                                    <div
                                      id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447090257809_4428"
                                      style="background-color:rgb(255,
                                      255, 255);">
                                      <div class="yiv5012810035"
                                        id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447083269911_7730"
                                        style="font-family:HelveticaNeue,
                                        'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica,
                                        Arial, 'Lucida Grande',
                                        sans-serif;font-size:16px;"><font
                                          color="#9d1811"><br
                                            clear="none">
                                        </font></div>
                                      <div class="yiv5012810035"
                                        dir="ltr"
                                        id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447083269911_7730"
                                        style="font-family:HelveticaNeue,
                                        'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica,
                                        Arial, 'Lucida Grande',
                                        sans-serif;font-size:16px;"><font
id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447090257809_67439" color="#9d1811"> In
                                          the case of the spherical cow,
                                          er, electron, a sub-elementary
                                          particle may be traversing a
                                          spacetime volume within a
                                          spacetime( various torus
                                          models also). </font><span
                                          id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447090257809_72959"
                                          style="color:rgb(157, 24,
                                          17);">So charge might arise
                                          from the  the change in
                                          pressure between two
                                          spacetimes.</span></div>
                                      <div class="yiv5012810035"
                                        id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447083269911_7730"
                                        style="font-family:HelveticaNeue,
                                        'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica,
                                        Arial, 'Lucida Grande',
                                        sans-serif;font-size:16px;color:rgb(0,
                                        0, 0);"><br clear="none">
                                      </div>
                                      <div class="yiv5012810035"
                                        id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447083269911_7732"
                                        style="font-family:HelveticaNeue,
                                        'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica,
                                        Arial, 'Lucida Grande',
                                        sans-serif;font-size:16px;color:rgb(0,
                                        0, 0);">Whatever the philosophy
                                        of science, the place science
                                        has in our society must be
                                        useful to help humans survive.
                                        This implies prediction of
                                        observations must take center
                                        stage. This means humans must be
                                        able to model nature. Therefore,
                                        the simpler and more inclusive
                                        model is better. </div>
                                      <div class="yiv5012810035"
                                        id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447083269911_7734"
                                        style="font-family:HelveticaNeue,
                                        'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica,
                                        Arial, 'Lucida Grande',
                                        sans-serif;font-size:16px;color:rgb(0,
                                        0, 0);"> </div>
                                      <div class="yiv5012810035"
                                        dir="ltr"
                                        id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447083269911_7734"
                                        style="font-family:HelveticaNeue,
                                        'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica,
                                        Arial, 'Lucida Grande',
                                        sans-serif;font-size:16px;"><font
id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447090257809_61930" color="#9d1811">Whether
                                          one's philosophy of mankind is
                                          to survive or thrive, simple
                                          often means approximating to
                                          the minimum point where
                                          engineers can do something
                                          (corollary to Occam's razor)</font></div>
                                      <div class="yiv5012810035"
                                        id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447083269911_7734"
                                        style="font-family:HelveticaNeue,
                                        'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica,
                                        Arial, 'Lucida Grande',
                                        sans-serif;font-size:16px;"><br
                                          clear="none">
                                      </div>
                                      <div class="yiv5012810035"
                                        id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447083269911_7736"
                                        style="font-family:HelveticaNeue,
                                        'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica,
                                        Arial, 'Lucida Grande',
                                        sans-serif;font-size:16px;color:rgb(0,
                                        0, 0);">Hodge</div>
                                      <div class="yiv5012810035"
                                        id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447083269911_7738"
                                        style="font-family:HelveticaNeue,
                                        'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica,
                                        Arial, 'Lucida Grande',
                                        sans-serif;font-size:16px;color:rgb(0,
                                        0, 0);"> </div>
                                      <div dir="ltr"
                                        style="font-family:HelveticaNeue,
                                        'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica,
                                        Arial, 'Lucida Grande',
                                        sans-serif;font-size:16px;"> </div>
                                      <font color="#9d1811">Best</font></div>
                                    <div
                                      id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447090257809_4428"
                                      style="background-color:rgb(255,
                                      255, 255);"><font color="#9d1811"><br
                                          clear="none">
                                      </font></div>
                                    <div
                                      id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447090257809_4428"
                                      style="background-color:rgb(255,
                                      255, 255);"><font
                                        id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447090257809_81771"
                                        color="#9d1811">David</font><br
                                        clear="none">
                                      <div
                                        class="yiv5012810035qtdSeparateBR"
id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447090257809_7716"
                                        style="font-family:HelveticaNeue,
                                        'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica,
                                        Arial, 'Lucida Grande',
                                        sans-serif;font-size:16px;color:rgb(0,
                                        0, 0);"><br clear="none">
                                        <br clear="none">
                                      </div>
                                      <div
                                        class="yiv5012810035yqt0776120805"
                                        id="yiv5012810035yqt42550"
                                        style="font-family:HelveticaNeue,
                                        'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica,
                                        Arial, 'Lucida Grande',
                                        sans-serif;font-size:16px;color:rgb(0,
                                        0, 0);">
                                        <div
                                          class="yiv5012810035yahoo_quoted"
id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447090257809_57472"
                                          style="display:block;">
                                          <div
                                            id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447090257809_57471"
                                            style="font-family:HelveticaNeue,
                                            Helvetica Neue, Helvetica,
                                            Arial, Lucida Grande,
                                            sans-serif;font-size:16px;">
                                            <div
                                              id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447090257809_57470"
                                              style="font-family:HelveticaNeue,
                                              Helvetica Neue, Helvetica,
                                              Arial, Lucida Grande,
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                                                id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447090257809_57469">
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                                                  id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447090257809_57468"
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                                                  On Sunday, November 8,
                                                  2015 6:01 PM, <a
                                                    moz-do-not-send="true"
                                                    rel="nofollow"
                                                    shape="rect"
                                                    class="yiv5012810035moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
ymailto="mailto:davidmathes8@yahoo.com" target="_blank"
                                                    href="mailto:davidmathes8@yahoo.com"><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:davidmathes8@yahoo.com">"davidmathes8@yahoo.com"</a></a>
                                                  <a
                                                    moz-do-not-send="true"
                                                    rel="nofollow"
                                                    shape="rect"
                                                    class="yiv5012810035moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
ymailto="mailto:davidmathes8@yahoo.com" target="_blank"
                                                    href="mailto:davidmathes8@yahoo.com"><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:davidmathes8@yahoo.com"><davidmathes8@yahoo.com></a></a>
                                                  wrote:<br clear="none">
                                                </font> </div>
                                              <br clear="none">
                                              <br clear="none">
                                              <div
                                                class="yiv5012810035y_msg_container">
                                                <div id="yiv5012810035">
                                                  <div>
                                                    <div
                                                      style="color:#000;background-color:#fff;font-family:HelveticaNeue,
                                                      Helvetica Neue,
                                                      Helvetica, Arial,
                                                      Lucida Grande,
                                                      sans-serif;font-size:16px;">
                                                      <div
                                                        id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447019841125_12685"><span>John


                                                          H</span></div>
                                                      <div
                                                        id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447019841125_12527"><span><br
                                                          clear="none">
                                                        </span></div>
                                                      <div
                                                        id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447019841125_12527"><span
id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447019841125_13840">For the walking
                                                          drops, I agree
                                                          that if EM is
                                                          not part of
                                                          the solution,
                                                          there most
                                                          likely will be
                                                          major issues. </span></div>
                                                      <div
                                                        id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447019841125_12527"><br
                                                          clear="none">
                                                      </div>
                                                      <div dir="ltr"
                                                        id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447019841125_12527">Yes,


                                                        there appears to
                                                        be another level
                                                        to the
                                                        particle-wave
                                                        universe
                                                        underneath the
                                                        elementary
                                                        particle layer.
                                                        Can we
                                                        distinguish
                                                        whether the
                                                        electron is
                                                        photonc or
                                                        quanta, or did
                                                        the photon
                                                        morph, transmute
                                                        or transform
                                                        into something
                                                        other than a
                                                        photon. My gut
                                                        says all of us
                                                        should be
                                                        hammering on
                                                        building another
                                                        layer. At the
                                                        same time, this
                                                        won't happen
                                                        from the
                                                        photonic
                                                        electron but
                                                        require an
                                                        understanding of
                                                        quarks and
                                                        perhaps
                                                        neutrinos and
                                                        gluons. And that
                                                        conjecture is
                                                        based on the
                                                        assumption that
                                                        we know the
                                                        essentials of
                                                        elementary
                                                        particles to do
                                                        so. </div>
                                                      <div
                                                        id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447019841125_12527"><br
                                                          clear="none">
                                                      </div>
                                                      <div dir="ltr"
                                                        id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447019841125_12528">As


                                                        a useful tool
                                                        for physicists,
                                                        Popper
                                                        falsification
                                                        allows some
                                                        heavy filtering
                                                        of ideas,
                                                        conjectures and
                                                        musings. My view
                                                        is that
                                                        falsification by
                                                        one experiment
                                                        raises the bar
                                                        fairly high but
                                                        does not
                                                        permanently
                                                        block that line
                                                        of reasoning no
                                                        matter how ill
                                                        conceived,
                                                        conjectured or
                                                        even fantasized
                                                        which is more of
                                                        a mathematicians
                                                        approach. A lot
                                                        more rigorous
                                                        work will be
                                                        required to
                                                        refute
                                                        falsification of
                                                        an experiment.</div>
                                                      <div dir="ltr"
                                                        id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447019841125_12528"><br
                                                          clear="none">
                                                      </div>
                                                      <div dir="ltr"
                                                        id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447019841125_12528">Statistically,


                                                         if the
                                                        experiment has
                                                        been done
                                                        correctly and
                                                        not
                                                        misinterpreted,
                                                        the odds and
                                                        therefore the
                                                        risk of
                                                        repeating the
                                                        experiment go up
                                                        if only for
                                                        research budget
                                                        purposes. In
                                                        order to
                                                        challenge a
                                                        falsification,
                                                        the history and
                                                        context of
                                                        assumptions, and
                                                        boundary
                                                        conditions need
                                                        to be clearly
                                                        understood for
                                                        the experiment,
                                                        the theory the
                                                        experiment is
                                                        testing, and the
                                                        equipment being
                                                        used.</div>
                                                      <div dir="ltr"
                                                        id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447019841125_12528"><br
                                                          clear="none">
                                                      </div>
                                                      <div
                                                        class="yiv5012810035"
                                                        dir="ltr"
                                                        id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447019841125_12529">Can


                                                        we falsify
                                                        whether it's EM
                                                        or E&M? The
                                                        physicists seem
                                                        to say EM while
                                                        the engineer
                                                        says E&M.
                                                        The simple fact
                                                        is that under
                                                        certain
                                                        conditions E and
                                                        M are closely
                                                        coupled. There
                                                        are two views
                                                        that are
                                                        possible: EM and
                                                        E&M.  EM is
                                                        one, united and
                                                        inseparable. The
                                                        other is that
                                                        E&M are to
                                                        be treated as
                                                        separable and
                                                        closely coupled
                                                        under certain
                                                        conditions
                                                        (photon) . Now,
                                                        both views rely
                                                        on the same
                                                        equations
                                                        whether they be
                                                        the  Maxwell 20
                                                        (original),
                                                        Maxwell
                                                        Heaviside (4),
                                                        Dirac symmetric
                                                        version- or
                                                        Barrett
                                                        extensions -
                                                        SU(N).  Each can
                                                        be expressed
                                                        mathematically
                                                        by in vector,
                                                        tensor,
                                                        differential or
                                                        quaternion
                                                        forms. </div>
                                                      <div
                                                        class="yiv5012810035"
                                                        dir="ltr"
                                                        id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447019841125_12529"><br
                                                          clear="none">
                                                      </div>
                                                      <div
                                                        class="yiv5012810035"
                                                        dir="ltr"
                                                        id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447019841125_12529">Given


                                                        that a
                                                        mainstream
                                                        approach
                                                        seriously limits
                                                        inquiry by a
                                                        fear of
                                                        exceeding the
                                                        speed of light,
                                                        the uncertainty
                                                        of measurement,
                                                        and the strong
                                                        doubt cast by
                                                        the shadow of
                                                        Popper
                                                        falsifiability,
                                                        one is left to
                                                        wonder if
                                                        physicists have
                                                        painted
                                                        themselves and
                                                        the rest of
                                                        science into a
                                                        corner. </div>
                                                      <div dir="ltr"
                                                        id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447019841125_12529"><br
                                                          clear="none">
                                                      </div>
                                                      <div dir="ltr"
                                                        id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447019841125_12529">What


                                                        is puzzling to
                                                        me is that Dirac
                                                        equations
                                                        predicted
                                                        successfully
                                                        antimatter
                                                        (positron) but
                                                        to date, the
                                                        monopole has not
                                                        emerged in
                                                        experiments. Can
                                                        the monopole be
                                                        falsified? Can
                                                        the quark?</div>
                                                      <div dir="ltr"
                                                        id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447019841125_12529"><br
                                                          clear="none">
                                                      </div>
                                                      <div dir="ltr"
                                                        id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447019841125_12529">Then


                                                        again, despite
                                                        various
                                                        theories, for
                                                        elementary
                                                        particles there
                                                        remains one key
                                                        question..."what
                                                        is the source of
                                                        charge". </div>
                                                      <div dir="ltr"
                                                        id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447019841125_12529"><br
                                                          clear="none">
                                                      </div>
                                                      <div
                                                        class="yiv5012810035"
                                                        dir="ltr"
                                                        id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447019841125_12528">Essentially,


                                                        an experimenter
                                                        "...has got to
                                                        know their
                                                        limits." (Clint
                                                        Eastwood, Dirty
                                                        Harry). </div>
                                                      <div
                                                        class="yiv5012810035"
                                                        dir="ltr"
                                                        id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447019841125_13778"><br
class="yiv5012810035" id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447019841125_13780"
                                                          clear="none">
                                                      </div>
                                                      <div
                                                        class="yiv5012810035"
                                                        dir="ltr"
                                                        id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447019841125_13778">"Subtle


                                                        is the Lrd." A
                                                        Einstein<br
                                                          clear="none">
                                                      </div>
                                                      <div
                                                        class="yiv5012810035"
                                                        dir="ltr"
                                                        id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447019841125_13778"><br
                                                          clear="none">
                                                      </div>
                                                      <div
                                                        class="yiv5012810035"
                                                        dir="ltr"
                                                        id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447019841125_13778">YMMV</div>
                                                      <div
                                                        class="yiv5012810035"
                                                        dir="ltr"
                                                        id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447019841125_13778"><br
                                                          clear="none">
                                                      </div>
                                                      <div
                                                        class="yiv5012810035"
                                                        dir="ltr"
                                                        id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447019841125_13778">Best


                                                        regards</div>
                                                      <div
                                                        class="yiv5012810035"
                                                        dir="ltr"
                                                        id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447019841125_13778"><br
                                                          clear="none">
                                                      </div>
                                                      <div
                                                        class="yiv5012810035"
                                                        dir="ltr"
                                                        id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447019841125_13778">David</div>
                                                      <div
                                                        id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447019841125_12496"><br
                                                          clear="none">
                                                      </div>
                                                      <br clear="none">
                                                      <blockquote
                                                        id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447019841125_12454"
                                                        style="border-left:2px
                                                        solid rgb(16,
                                                        16,
                                                        255);margin-left:5px;margin-top:5px;padding-left:5px;">
                                                        <div
                                                          id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447019841125_12453"
                                                          style="font-family:HelveticaNeue,
                                                          Helvetica
                                                          Neue,
                                                          Helvetica,
                                                          Arial, Lucida
                                                          Grande,
                                                          sans-serif;font-size:16px;">
                                                          <div
                                                          id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447019841125_12452"
                                                          style="font-family:HelveticaNeue,
                                                          Helvetica
                                                          Neue,
                                                          Helvetica,
                                                          Arial, Lucida
                                                          Grande,
                                                          sans-serif;font-size:16px;">
                                                          <div
                                                          class="yiv5012810035yqt5142129093"
id="yiv5012810035yqt92455">
                                                          <div dir="ltr"
id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447019841125_12451">
                                                          <hr
                                                          id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447019841125_12450"
                                                          size="1"> <font
id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447019841125_12455" size="2" face="Arial">
                                                          <b
                                                          id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447019841125_12538"><span
id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447019841125_12537"
                                                          style="font-weight:bold;">From:</span></b>
                                                          Hodge John <a
moz-do-not-send="true" rel="nofollow" shape="rect"
                                                          class="yiv5012810035moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
ymailto="mailto:jchodge@frontier.com" target="_blank"
                                                          href="mailto:jchodge@frontier.com"><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:jchodge@frontier.com"><jchodge@frontier.com></a></a><br
                                                          clear="none">
                                                          <b
                                                          id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447019841125_12540"><span
id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447019841125_12539"
                                                          style="font-weight:bold;">To:</span></b>
                                                          <a
                                                          moz-do-not-send="true"
                                                          rel="nofollow"
                                                          shape="rect"
                                                          class="yiv5012810035moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
ymailto="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"
                                                          target="_blank"
href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org">"general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"</a></a>
                                                          <a
                                                          moz-do-not-send="true"
                                                          rel="nofollow"
                                                          shape="rect"
                                                          class="yiv5012810035moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
ymailto="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"
                                                          target="_blank"
href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"><general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org></a></a>
                                                          <br
                                                          clear="none">
                                                          <b><span
                                                          style="font-weight:bold;">Sent:</span></b>
                                                          Sunday,
                                                          November 8,
                                                          2015 11:05 AM<br
                                                          clear="none">
                                                          <b
                                                          id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447019841125_12536"><span
id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447019841125_12535"
                                                          style="font-weight:bold;">Subject:</span></b>
                                                          [General]
                                                          Reply of
                                                          comments from
                                                          what a model…<br
                                                          clear="none">
                                                          </font> </div>
                                                          <div
                                                          class="yiv5012810035y_msg_container"
id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447019841125_12532"><br clear="none">
                                                          <div
                                                          id="yiv5012810035">
                                                          <div
                                                          id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447019841125_12534">
                                                          <div
                                                          id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447019841125_12533"
                                                          style="color:#000;background-color:#fff;font-family:HelveticaNeue,
                                                          Helvetica
                                                          Neue,
                                                          Helvetica,
                                                          Arial, Lucida
                                                          Grande,
                                                          sans-serif;font-size:16px;">
                                                          <div
                                                          id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447009445155_2496">
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div
                                                          class="yiv5012810035"
id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447009445155_2562">David</div>
                                                          <div
                                                          class="yiv5012810035"
id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447009445155_2564">Thanks for the
                                                          thought.</div>
                                                          <div
                                                          class="yiv5012810035"
id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447009445155_2566">You seem to be more
                                                          familiar with
                                                          Popper than I.
                                                          I thought
                                                          Popper dealt
                                                          with
                                                          “refutation”
                                                          in connection
                                                          with models
                                                          and ability to
                                                          be falsified
                                                          as being a
                                                          requirement
                                                          for a model to
                                                          be a
                                                          “scientific”.
                                                          If evolution
                                                          cannot be
                                                          falsified,
                                                          then wouldn’t
                                                          Popper
                                                          consider it
                                                          not a science?
                                                          But evolution
                                                          did predict
                                                          fossils of
                                                          evolving
                                                          species would
                                                          be found. </div>
                                                          <div
                                                          class="yiv5012810035"
id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447009445155_2568">A single experiment is
                                                          enough to
                                                          reject a
                                                          (hypothesis)
                                                          theory within
                                                          some domain.
                                                          Both quantum
                                                          mechanics and
                                                          cosmology
                                                          reject each
                                                          other in the
                                                          domain of a
                                                          ToE. The
                                                          comment was
                                                          trying to
                                                          suggest that
                                                          the inability
                                                          of a model to
                                                          explain an
                                                          experiment
                                                          within the
                                                          domain that
                                                          the model is
                                                          supposed to
                                                          apply is cause
                                                          for rejection.
                                                          A “null”
                                                          result is a
                                                          “no test” done
                                                          result. For
                                                          example,
                                                          Galileo tried
                                                          to find
                                                          parallax in
                                                          stars to
                                                          support the
                                                          heliocentric
                                                          model. He had
                                                          a null result
                                                          that resulted
                                                          in some
                                                          trouble with
                                                          the Church.
                                                          More accurate
                                                          equipment in
                                                          the 1830s
                                                          finally saw
                                                          parallax and
                                                          heliocentricism
                                                          was accepted.
                                                          The same is
                                                          true in the
                                                          case of the
                                                          Michelson–Morley<b
class="yiv5012810035" id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447009445155_2570">
                                                          </b>experiment.

                                                          </div>
                                                          <div
                                                          class="yiv5012810035"
id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447009445155_2572"> </div>
                                                          <div
                                                          class="yiv5012810035"
id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447009445155_2574">(see also John W
                                                          comment where
                                                          he agrees with
                                                          David) The
                                                          deviations
                                                          from
                                                          expectaion in
                                                          experiments
                                                          have lead to
                                                          finding
                                                          several
                                                          emergent
                                                          properties of
                                                          nature.
                                                          Indeed,
                                                          deviation for
                                                          expectation
                                                          causes the
                                                          postulate of
                                                          hidden
                                                          variables
                                                          rather than
                                                          suggesting
                                                          lack of a
                                                          proper model.
                                                          Further, the
                                                          finding of
                                                          data that is
                                                          poorly
                                                          explained is
                                                          an indication
                                                          of the need
                                                          for a new
                                                          model.
                                                          Sometime the
                                                          new data is so
                                                          radical, a
                                                          complete
                                                          rethink is
                                                          needed. Until
                                                          that is done,
                                                          ad hoc
                                                          additions are
                                                          made such as
                                                          Dark Energy,
                                                          Dark Mass,
                                                          inflation, etc
                                                          and models
                                                          become very
                                                          complex. So, I
                                                          suggest,
                                                          simplification
                                                          is needed but
                                                          simplification
                                                          usually
                                                          requires
                                                          redefinition
                                                          of what is
                                                          basic. </div>
                                                          <div
                                                          class="yiv5012810035"
id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447009445155_2576"> </div>
                                                          <div
                                                          class="yiv5012810035"
id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447009445155_2578">I’m unsure of your
                                                          interpretation
                                                          of the
                                                          Uncertainty
                                                          Principle as
                                                          an
                                                          experimental
                                                          error. I had
                                                          understood the
                                                          photoelectric
                                                          effect
                                                          measurement of
                                                          energy vs
                                                          frequency
                                                          (slope <i
                                                          class="yiv5012810035"
id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447009445155_2580">h</i>) to have steps
                                                          in the linear
                                                          relationship.
                                                          The idea of
                                                          steps suggests
                                                          the quanta and
                                                          the
                                                          non-existence
                                                          of an
                                                          inbetween
                                                          state. The
                                                          measurement
                                                          was well
                                                          within the
                                                          experimental
                                                          error. That is
                                                          it’s not so
                                                          much a tool
                                                          limit as a
                                                          fundamental
                                                          existence
                                                          limit.</div>
                                                          <div
                                                          class="yiv5012810035"
id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447009445155_2582"> </div>
                                                          <div
                                                          class="yiv5012810035"
id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447009445155_2584"> </div>
                                                          <div
                                                          class="yiv5012810035"
id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447009445155_2586">Richard</div>
                                                          <div
                                                          class="yiv5012810035"
id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447009445155_2588">Thanks</div>
                                                          <div
                                                          class="yiv5012810035"
id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447009445155_2590">In my opinion, our
                                                          instruments
                                                          detect matter
                                                          not the waves.
                                                          The waves in
                                                          the fluid is
                                                          the fluid of
                                                          the underlying
                                                          tension of the
                                                          molecules. </div>
                                                          <div
                                                          class="yiv5012810035"
id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447009445155_2592"> </div>
                                                          <div
                                                          class="yiv5012810035"
id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447009445155_2594">I think the matter
                                                          photon is
                                                          guided by the
                                                          pilot wave. If
                                                          you are you
                                                          using “wave
                                                          function” to
                                                          mean the
                                                          probability
                                                          energy
                                                          density,
                                                          probability
                                                          functions
                                                          don’t “guide”.
                                                          However, I
                                                          suggest (and I
                                                          think Bohm
                                                          does, too) the
                                                          the pilot wave
                                                          is real and
                                                          the \Psi ^*
                                                          \Psi is a
                                                          characteristic
                                                          of the pilot
                                                          wave and not a
                                                          probability
                                                          function. The
                                                          nest step is
                                                          to suggest
                                                          what the
                                                          \Psi^* is in
                                                          reality.
                                                          Photons need a
                                                          property of
                                                          coherence for
                                                          diffraction to
                                                          occur. The
                                                          nature of
                                                          coherence is
                                                          unknown. I
                                                          suggest the
                                                          Bohm
                                                          interpretation
                                                          is suggesting
                                                          photons do
                                                          require
                                                          guidance to
                                                          the screen if
                                                          an
                                                          interference
                                                          pattern is
                                                          noted. At
                                                          least in my
                                                          model pilot
                                                          waves exist
                                                          (are real) for
                                                          both electrons
                                                          and photons. </div>
                                                          <div
                                                          class="yiv5012810035"
id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447009445155_2596"> </div>
                                                          <div
                                                          class="yiv5012810035"
id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447009445155_2598"> </div>
                                                          <div
                                                          class="yiv5012810035"
id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447009445155_2600">John W</div>
                                                          <div
                                                          class="yiv5012810035"
id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447009445155_2602"> </div>
                                                          <div
                                                          class="yiv5012810035"
id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447009445155_2604">The Bohm Interpretaion
                                                          was under
                                                          discussion a
                                                          bit ago. The
                                                          statement
                                                          about source
                                                          was directed
                                                          to the Bohm
                                                          model.
                                                          Certainly,
                                                          other models
                                                          have similar
                                                          problem with
                                                          the source of
                                                          their action
                                                          and
                                                          particularity
                                                          where is the
                                                          energy for the
                                                          interaction
                                                          coming from or
                                                          does the
                                                          interaction
                                                          involve no net
                                                          gain or loss.
                                                          </div>
                                                          <div
                                                          class="yiv5012810035"
id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447009445155_2606"> </div>
                                                          <div
                                                          class="yiv5012810035"
id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447009445155_2608">I like the idea of a
                                                          single entity
                                                          in an
                                                          experiment at
                                                          a time or, at
                                                          least, one
                                                          entity beyond
                                                          the mask.
                                                          However, I
                                                          allow the
                                                          possibility
                                                          that the
                                                          determination
                                                          of one entity
                                                          in the
                                                          experiment at
                                                          a time could
                                                          be the result
                                                          of averaging
                                                          of a pulse
                                                          with fewer
                                                          pulses. </div>
                                                          <div
                                                          class="yiv5012810035"
id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447009445155_2610"> </div>
                                                          <div
                                                          class="yiv5012810035"
id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447009445155_2612">I think you are using
                                                          “dimension” to
                                                          mean
                                                          mathematical
                                                          parameters. I
                                                          use
                                                          “dimension” to
                                                          mean real
                                                          special
                                                          extents (limit
                                                          3). I’m unsure
                                                          how to
                                                          classify time.
                                                          At any special
                                                          point there
                                                          could be
                                                          scalar or
                                                          vector or
                                                          tensor values
                                                          mathematically.

                                                          However, I
                                                          like the
                                                          scalar model
                                                          because the
                                                          forces can be
                                                          vectors
                                                          (tensor)
                                                          through
                                                          divergence.
                                                          The
                                                          electromagnetic
                                                          comments beg
                                                          the question
                                                          “What are the
                                                          basic
                                                          constituents
                                                          of the
                                                          universe?
                                                          Simpler but
                                                          yet complete
                                                          is better. I
                                                          suggest a
                                                          continuous and
                                                          matter like
                                                          Bohm. What are
                                                          your basic?
                                                          I’m left with
                                                          explaining
                                                          electromagnetism
                                                          with the
                                                          interaction of
                                                          the 2
                                                          components.<span
class="yiv5012810035" id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447009445155_2614"
                                                          style="">  </span></div>
                                                          <div
                                                          class="yiv5012810035"
id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447009445155_2616"> </div>
                                                          <div
                                                          class="yiv5012810035"
id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447009445155_2618">Although the walking
                                                          drop analogy
                                                          is limited, it
                                                          does produce
                                                          the
                                                          interference
                                                          pattern. So
                                                          the question
                                                          becomes what
                                                          characteristics
                                                          of the walking
                                                          drop
                                                          observations
                                                          produce
                                                          diffraction -
                                                          energy input
                                                          need not be
                                                          one of them.
                                                          If the walking
                                                          drop doesn’t
                                                          involve
                                                          electromagnetism,
                                                          I think a
                                                          model based on
                                                          electromagnetism

                                                          has
                                                          difficulty. </div>
                                                          <div
                                                          class="yiv5012810035"
id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447009445155_2620"> </div>
                                                          <div
                                                          class="yiv5012810035"
id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447009445155_2622">“Space” can have no
                                                          mass - the
                                                          boat and water
                                                          were analogies
                                                          in the
                                                          classical
                                                          realm.</div>
                                                          <div
                                                          class="yiv5012810035"
id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447009445155_2624"> </div>
                                                          <div
                                                          class="yiv5012810035"
id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447009445155_2626">The y and y* were
                                                          translated
                                                          incorrectly.
                                                          They were
                                                          meant to be
                                                          \Psi and
                                                          \Psi*.
                                                          However, You
                                                          hit on the
                                                          same
                                                          realization I
                                                          did - that the
                                                          \Psi* is just
                                                          the part of a
                                                          standing wave
                                                          in the
                                                          Transaction
                                                          Interpretation
                                                          of the wave
                                                          returning to
                                                          the source
                                                          (the particle)
                                                          rather than
                                                          the future
                                                          wave manifest
                                                          in the
                                                          present. This
                                                          could provide
                                                          the Bohm
                                                          requirement of
                                                          “reality” to
                                                          the \Psi. </div>
                                                          <div
                                                          class="yiv5012810035"
id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447009445155_2628"> </div>
                                                          <div
                                                          class="yiv5012810035"
id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447009445155_2630">Please provide a
                                                          reference for
                                                          your /
                                                          Martin’s paper
                                                          to which you
                                                          are referring.</div>
                                                          <div
                                                          class="yiv5012810035"
id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447009445155_2632"> </div>
                                                          <div
                                                          class="yiv5012810035"
id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447009445155_2634">Although I haven’t
                                                          read you
                                                          paper, perhaps
                                                          my experiment
                                                          in my last
                                                          paper is such
                                                          an example. It
                                                          is if it
                                                          relies upon
                                                          Huygens-Fresnel.</div>
                                                          <div
                                                          class="yiv5012810035"
id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447009445155_2636"> </div>
                                                          <div
                                                          class="yiv5012810035"
id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447009445155_2638">Thanks for your
                                                          comments. </div>
                                                          <div
                                                          class="yiv5012810035"
id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447009445155_2640"> </div>
                                                          <div
                                                          class="yiv5012810035"
id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447009445155_2642">Hodge</div>
                                                          <div
                                                          class="yiv5012810035"
id="yiv5012810035yui_3_16_0_1_1447009445155_2644"> </div>
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