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Hello Richard,<br>
<br>
sorry that I am a bit late, but I shall try to answer always.<br>
<br>
True, spin is angular momentum, and that is defined as to be S =
speed*mass*radius. Radius is clearly defined, speed is c, so what is
mass here? It is the tangential force at a distance. The same
mechanism like the inertial mass of the entire electron. Mass comes
from the radial component of the force, spin from the tangential
component. Sorry that I was a bit short with my wording.<br>
<br>
For the energy we can reorder the mass equation which is m =
hbar/c*R<sub>0 </sub>, <sub> </sub>to m*c^2 = hbar*c/R<sub>0</sub>
= h*c/(2pi*R<sub>0</sub>) = h*f = E = 0.551 MeV, which reflects the
kinetic energy inside the particle.<br>
Binding force: If we integrate my equation for force: F =
hbar*c*(R-R<sub>0</sub>/R<sup>3)</sup> from R<sub>0</sub> to
infinity, then the result is: 3/2 * 0.511 MeV for the potential
energy, which is more than the kinetic energy and is so sufficient
to maintain the bind of the subparticles. <br>
<br>
If we assume the potential energy to be negative then the overall
energy of the particle is formally < 0. But why not? We should
remember at this occasion that Einstein's famous equation was in the
original form differential: dE = dm * c<sup>2</sup>. When this is
integrated, then we get E = m*c<sup>2 </sup> + C where C is the
integration constant. C is normally set to Zero, but by which
argument? <br>
<br>
Thank you for this interesting question which I did not see before.<br>
<br>
Regards<br>
Albrecht<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 26.11.2015 um 02:07 schrieb Richard
Gauthier:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:A4268F5C-8E87-46A7-A74E-9A99BD070312@gmail.com"
type="cite">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
Hello Albrecht,
<div class=""> I suppose you can define spin any way you want.
The problem is to get physicists to agree with your definition
of spin. You say that spin is a "tangential inertial force on
both constituents" of your electron model. The units of spin and
the units of force are not the same. Please explain how a
tangential inertial force can be a spin or angular momentum in
your model. Thanks.</div>
<div class=""> Also, binding forces between two circulating
particles would have an associated negative total energy of the
2 particles, as -13.6 eV as the ground state energy of a
hydrogen atom. How can you get a positive 0.511 MeV for the
energy of an electron from a negative binding energy acting on
two massless and energy-less particles?</div>
<div class=""> Richard</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
<div>
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">On Nov 25, 2015, at 12:45 PM, Albrecht Giese
<<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:genmail@a-giese.de" class="">genmail@a-giese.de</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<div class="">
<meta content="text/html; charset=utf-8"
http-equiv="Content-Type" class="">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF" class=""> Hello
Richard,<br class="">
<br class="">
here only a little response to your last paragraph as
you refer to my particle model. The electron has an
energy of 0.511 MeV. This, however, does not mean that
each of the sub-particles have half of this energy. The
sub-particles would exhibit zero energy if they would
move single and freely in space. The energy and the mass
of the whole particle is caused by the bind and the
process of motion which goes on in the electron. <br
class="">
<br class="">
Further on the spin is not 1 hbar. There would be this
spin if we would have 2 objects circling at the given
radius with speed c and having the mass of 1/2
electron-mass each. But the constituents of the electron
do not have any mass. In the case here, however, the
spin is also given by the force effective at distance
between both particles. This causes a tangential
inertial force on both constituents. That is the spin.<br
class="">
<br class="">
Best regards<br class="">
Albrecht<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 19.11.2015 um 14:45
schrieb Richard Gauthier:<br class="">
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:0A2315A8-B3EB-4A67-A797-560E9BE5BB76@gmail.com"
type="cite" class="">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
charset=utf-8" class="">
<div class="">Hello John D and Albrecht,</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""> We’re not quite there by merely
replacing Albrecht’s two circulating massless
particles by a double-looping photon. By doing this
the radius of the circle drops from hbar/mc to
hbar/2mc because the total loop length is still one
Compton wavelength. A double loop of length 1
Compton wavelength h/mc has half the radius of a
single loop and therefore (if the circulating photon
carries charge -e moving at light speed) half the
calculated magnetic moment of Albrecht’s model, i.e.
1/2 Bohr magneton. The loss in magnetic moment from
Albrecht’s 2-particle model has to be made up in
some other way. But this double-looping photon model
of the electron has spin 1/2 hbar while Albrecht's
two-particle model has spin 1 hbar. No argument
about retarded light-speed forces between his 2
light-speed circling massless particles will bring
the total spin of the two-particle system down to
exactly 1/2 hbar while keeping its magnetic moment
at 1 Bohr magneton. That would be like pulling a
magical rabbit out of a hat which so far only Dirac
with his equation has been able to do successfully
(he wasn’t called a magician for nothing.) The
Williamson - van der Mark 1997 electron model comes
close with its proposed centrally located static
electric charge -e inferred from their twisting
double-looping uncharged photon’s inward pointing
electric fields at the model’s equator. (But what
happened to their double-looping photon's electric
field at and near the model’s two poles?) . This
model can’t convincingly explain how a sphere
enclosing a double-looping uncharged photon can have
a non-zero divergence of its electric field
(indicating a non-zero enclosed electric charge)
without violating Gauss’ law (the first Maxwell
equation). I think that in order to retain a viable
double-looping photon model of the electron, one may
have to bite the bullet and accept that the
circulating double-looping photon is itself
electrically charged and also has a rest mass of
0.511 MeV/c^2 and a spin of 1/2 hbar.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""> By the way, Albrecht’s two
circulating particles may each have no rest mass as
he describes, but they certainly each carry 1/2 of
0.511 MeV of a resting electron's total energy. This
strongly implies that they are two circulating
photons (or gluons?) each having energy 1/2 x 0.511
MeV. This also gives his electron model a spin of 1
hbar.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""> with best regards,</div>
<div class=""> Richard</div>
<div class=""> </div>
<br class="">
<div class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">On Nov 19, 2015, at 12:13 AM, John
Duffield <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:johnduffield@btconnect.com">johnduffield@btconnect.com</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<div class="">
<div class="WordSection1" style="page:
WordSection1; font-family: Helvetica;
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal;
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal;
letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal;
orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent:
0px; text-transform: none; white-space:
normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;
background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255);">
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New
Roman', serif;" class=""><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73,
125);" class="">Albrecht:<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New
Roman', serif;" class=""><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73,
125);" class=""> </span></div>
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New
Roman', serif;" class=""><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73,
125);" class="">It’s easy to understand
the electron if you look at the evidence
of things like gamma-gamma pair
production, electron magnetic moment, the
Einstein-de Haas effect, electron
diffraction, spherical harmonics, and
electron-positron annihilation back to
gamma photons. An electron is a wave going
round and round in a standing-wave
configuration, such that a field-variation
looks like a standing field. It isn’t
complicated or mysterious. Nor is inertia.
The mass of a body is a measure of its
energy-content. It’s like the photon in
the box, see<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://arxiv.org/abs/1508.06478"><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://arxiv.org/abs/1508.06478">http://arxiv.org/abs/1508.06478</a></a>.
Photon energy-momentum is resistance to
change-in-motion for a wave propagating
linearly at c. Electron mass is
resistance to change-in-motion for a wave
going round and round at c. Forget
Wilczek, the guy is a peddler of<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://frankwilczek.com/2013/multiverseEnergy01.pdf"
style="color: purple; text-decoration:
underline;" class="">pompous woo</a>,
and there re is no mystery. But don’t
forget the wave nature of matter. Replace
your two particles by two loops of a
511keV E=hf photon wave, and then your
model matches observation. Win win!<o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New
Roman', serif;" class=""><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73,
125);" class=""> </span></div>
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New
Roman', serif;" class=""><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73,
125);" class=""></span><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73,
125);" class=""><image001.jpg></span><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73,
125);" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New
Roman', serif;" class=""><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73,
125);" class=""> </span></div>
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New
Roman', serif;" class=""><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73,
125);" class="">Regards<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New
Roman', serif;" class=""><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73,
125);" class="">John D<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New
Roman', serif;" class=""><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73,
125);" class=""> </span></div>
<div class="">
<div style="border-style: solid none none;
border-top-color: rgb(225, 225, 225);
border-top-width: 1pt; padding: 3pt 0cm
0cm;" class="">
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New
Roman', serif;" class=""><b class=""><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif; color:
windowtext;" class="" lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif; color:
windowtext;" class="" lang="EN-US"><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>General
[<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:general-bounces+johnduffield=btconnect.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"
style="color: purple;
text-decoration: underline;"
class="">mailto:general-bounces+johnduffield=btconnect.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>]<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b
class="">On Behalf Of<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Dr.
Albrecht Giese<br class="">
<b class="">Sent:</b><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>18
November 2015 20:19<br class="">
<b class="">To:</b><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>John
Williamson <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:John.Williamson@glasgow.ac.uk"
style="color: purple;
text-decoration: underline;"
class=""><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:John.Williamson@glasgow.ac.uk">John.Williamson@glasgow.ac.uk</a></a>>;
Nature of Light and Particles -
General Discussion <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"
style="color: purple;
text-decoration: underline;"
class=""><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org">general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a></a>><br
class="">
<b class="">Cc:</b><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:pete@leathergoth.com"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:pete@leathergoth.com">pete@leathergoth.com</a></a>;
Nick Bailey <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:nick@bailey-family.org.uk"
style="color: purple;
text-decoration: underline;"
class=""><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:nick@bailey-family.org.uk">nick@bailey-family.org.uk</a></a>>;
Mark, Martin van der <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:martin.van.der.mark@philips.com"
style="color: purple;
text-decoration: underline;"
class=""><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:martin.van.der.mark@philips.com">martin.van.der.mark@philips.com</a></a>>;
David Williamson <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:david.williamson@ed.ac.uk"
style="color: purple;
text-decoration: underline;"
class=""><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:david.williamson@ed.ac.uk">david.williamson@ed.ac.uk</a></a>><br
class="">
<b class="">Subject:</b><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re:
[General] Reply of comments from what
a model…<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New
Roman', serif;" class=""><span class=""
lang="EN-US"> </span></div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0cm 0cm
12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times
New Roman', serif;"><span style="font-size:
10pt;" class="" lang="EN-US">John,<br
class="">
<br class="">
Wilczek has written about several aspects
of the electron. Some of them sound to my
like the usual QM mystifications. Among
them also aspects of collective states.
But at the end his remark about<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><i
class="">half-electrons<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></i>is
another view</span><span style="font-size:
7.5pt;" class="" lang="EN-US">:<span
class="current-selection"><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>"</span></span><span
class="current-selection"><span
style="font-size: 10pt;" class=""
lang="EN-US">By combining fragmentation
with super</span></span><span
class="ls0"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"
class="" lang="EN-US">-</span></span><span
class="current-selection"><span
style="font-size: 10pt;" class=""
lang="EN-US">conductivity, we can get
half-electrons that are their own
antiparticles."</span></span><span
style="font-size: 10pt;" class=""
lang="EN-US"><br class="">
This is a clear statement in my
understanding.<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span
class="" lang="EN-US"><br class="">
</span><span style="font-size: 10pt;"
class="" lang="EN-US"><br class="">
And else, his whole article is a fight
with the usual logical paradoxes, if one
tries to understand the electron on the
basis of present main stream physics. This
is also obvious in his last paragraph: "<span
class="current-selection">So, what is an
electron? An electron is a particle and
a wave; it is ideally simple and
unimaginably complex .." Do we not have
a better understanding today? At least I
have it, if I look to my model. There
may be open questions left but no
mystery.</span><br class="">
<br class="">
<span class="current-selection">But apart
of this: I found it a funny incident to
see this article in view of our
discussion about my 2-particle-model.
But this reference is of course not my
serious argument. The most powerful
argument is that this assumption of a
2-particle extended model explains
inertia. And it yields not just an idea
what inertia could be, but precise
mathematical results. In contrast to all
what is available these days about this
topic in particle physics.</span><br
class="">
<br class="">
Regards<br class="">
Albrecht<br class="">
<br class="">
</span><span class="" lang="EN-US"><o:p
class=""></o:p></span></p>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New
Roman', serif;" class=""><span class=""
lang="EN-US">Am 17.11.2015 um 07:13
schrieb John Williamson:<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt;
margin-bottom: 5pt;" class="" type="cite">
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New
Roman', serif;" class=""><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
Times, serif;" class=""> </span><span
class="" lang="EN-US"><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New
Roman', serif;" class=""><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
Times, serif;" class="">Sorry
Albrecht, but you are not really
getting what Frank is talking about in
his article at all.</span><span
class="" lang="EN-US"><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New
Roman', serif;" class=""><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
Times, serif;" class=""><br class="">
<br class="">
</span><span class="" lang="EN-US"><o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New
Roman', serif;" class=""><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
Times, serif;" class="">He is, as Al
is alluding to, discussing collective
systems – the Fractional quantum Hall
effect and superconductors – and
(theoretical) attempts that are being
made to understand them. In those
attempts people are coming up with
models like yours – with multiple
components – three for the fractional
quantum Hall effect – two for
superconductors. These are COMPOSITE
systems of light and matter.
Simple-minded attempts to understand
them without getting what the electron
is or what the photon is (the current
situation) is bound to prove
challenging. In superconductors you
have, practically, a di-electron
system – but it is also extended to
include an overlap over a whole
crystal – extra protons in the system
then. One is looking a whole,
collective, state of matter – with
pairs of spin-opposite, electrons
extended for many centimetres
(whatever the size of the
superconductor is). Ok there are TWO
paired, opposite spin electrons in any
“Cooper pair” and , at some level, one
is going to observe this and the
symmetries inherent in this.
Antiparticles they are only the sense
you know they have opposite spin.
Everything else, in the experiments,
is spin – if you will pardon the pun.
One is blindly thrashing about in the
mist further.</span><span class=""
lang="EN-US"><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New
Roman', serif;" class=""><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
Times, serif;" class=""><br class="">
Regards, John</span><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
Tahoma, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
<div class="">
<div class="MsoNormal" style="margin:
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;
text-align: center;" align="center">
<hr class="" size="2" width="100%"
align="center"></div>
<div id="divRpF530990" class="">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:
0cm 0cm 12pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times New Roman',
serif;"><b class=""><span
style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family: Tahoma,
sans-serif;" class="">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;"
class=""><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>General
[<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:general-bounces+john.williamson=glasgow.ac.uk@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"
style="color: purple;
text-decoration: underline;"
class="">general-bounces+john.williamson=glasgow.ac.uk@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>]
on behalf of Dr. Albrecht Giese [<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:genmail@a-giese.de"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:genmail@a-giese.de">genmail@a-giese.de</a></a>]<br
class="">
<b class="">Sent:</b><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Monday,
November 16, 2015 9:16 PM<br
class="">
<b class="">To:</b><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Chip
Akins; 'Nature of Light and
Particles - General Discussion'<br
class="">
<b class="">Subject:</b><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re:
[General] Reply of comments from
what a model…</span><o:p class=""></o:p></p>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:
0cm 0cm 12pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times New Roman',
serif;">Hi Chip,<br class="">
<br class="">
thanks for your proposals. I have
inserted some comments into the
text.<o:p class=""></o:p></p>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times New Roman',
serif;" class="">Am 14.11.2015 um
17:13 schrieb Chip Akins:<o:p
class=""></o:p></div>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt;
margin-bottom: 5pt;" class=""
type="cite">
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times New Roman',
serif;" class=""><span class=""
lang="EN-US">Hi Albrecht<o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times New Roman',
serif;" class=""><span class=""
lang="EN-US"> <o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times New Roman',
serif;" class=""><span class=""
lang="EN-US">What if, for
purposes of conjecture, we
replace your two “particles” in
the electron, with an EM wave
which has a wavelength of twice
the circumference? <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</blockquote>
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times
New Roman', serif;" class="">How can
you bind a wave to something? That
sounds very strange to me. In the
vicinity of a charge we can feel a
force. It is an abstraction to call
this situation a field. And if this
field changes with time and
propagates into the space, we call
it a wave. You cannot bind a wave to
something, so as you cannot bind the
wind to a tree.<br class="">
<br class="">
What we can bind is the charge which
is the cause of the field and of a
wave. And a wave cannot build a
spin. As a comparison, a squirl in
the air or in the water can build an
angular momentum. But that has to do
with the air or the water. The
squirl without air or water, which
is a pure abstraction, cannot cause
any binding forces. Similar to an
electric wave apart from a charge.<br
class="">
<br class="">
An EM wave is an electric field
which is modulated and which
propagates. The magnetic part of it
is, as discussed here before,
nothing than an impression which we
have of the electric field. A
relativistic side effect. Similar to
the Coriolis force which is as well
an impression (i.e. also a seeming
side effect, but in this case not
relativistic).<br class="">
<br class="">
So we should talk about real things
and that are charges in my
understanding.<br class="">
<br class="">
<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
<blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt;
margin-bottom: 5pt;" class=""
type="cite">
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times New Roman',
serif;" class=""><span class=""
lang="EN-US">And now let us
consider that the “binding
force” which holds this wave in
a circular confinement is the
same “force” which causes spin
angular momentum in light. The
EM “wave” would have the
negative portion always away
from the center for the
electron, and the confinement of
the wave causes a curvature in
(divergence of) the E field
which in turn would be the cause
for the appearance of the
elementary charge.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times New Roman',
serif;" class=""><span class=""
lang="EN-US"> <o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times New Roman',
serif;" class=""><span class=""
lang="EN-US">It seems that such
a model would 1) conserve
momentum, 2) cause inertial mass<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><i
class="">(because of confined
momentum and the speed of
light velocity limit)</i>, and
3) radiate when accelerated
under most circumstances<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><i
class="">(except gravitational
acceleration, if gravity is
simply the diffraction of
waves.)</i><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
</blockquote>
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times
New Roman', serif;" class="">How do
you think to accelerate an abstract
wave?<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br
class="">
<br class="">
If you understand this wave as a
cause of inertial mass, can you
present a quantitative calculation
of the mass which is the result of
this effect? - I can do it for my
model with high precision (see
below).<br class="">
<br class="">
If gravity is a case of diffraction,
or better of refraction, then there
is an object refracted or a moving
charge, but not a wave.<br class="">
<br class="">
<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
<blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt;
margin-bottom: 5pt;" class=""
type="cite">
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times New Roman',
serif;" class=""><span class=""
lang="EN-US"> <o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times New Roman',
serif;" class=""><span class=""
lang="EN-US">If we do this, we
have an electron model which
consists of<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><i
class="">just one item</i><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>and
explains (it seems) the same
things that your model explains,
but without the need for two
entities within this elementary
particle.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
</blockquote>
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times
New Roman', serif;" class="">As a
wave cannot have a momentum it will
not violate the conservation of
momentum, true, but it cannot build
anything than mathematical
equations.<br class="">
<br class="">
<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
<blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt;
margin-bottom: 5pt;" class=""
type="cite">
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times New Roman',
serif;" class=""><span class=""
lang="EN-US"> <o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times New Roman',
serif;" class=""><span class=""
lang="EN-US">The reason for
posing this question is that
there is no experimental
evidence that the electron is
comprised of two particles.
However there is much evidence
that it is a single thing
comprised of energy.<o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</blockquote>
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times
New Roman', serif;" class="">I say
it again: There is evidence for two
sub-particles. And I refer again to
the experiment described by Frank
Wilczek where two halves of an
electron have been observed:<br
class="">
<br class="">
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.nature.com/articles/498031a.epdf?referrer_access_token=ben9To-3oo1NBniBt2zIw9RgN0jAjWel9jnR3ZoTv0Mr0WZkh3ZGwaOU__QIZA8EEsfyjmdvPM68ya-MFh194zghek6jh7WqtGYeYWmES35o2U71x2DQVk0PFLoHQk5V5M-cak670GmcqKy2iZm7PPrWZKcv_J3SBA-hRXn4VJI1r9NxMvgmKog-topZaM03&tracking_referrer=www.nature.com"
target="_blank" style="color:
purple; text-decoration:
underline;" class="">http://www.nature.com/articles/498031a.epdf?referrer_access_token=ben9To-3oo1NBniBt2zIw9RgN0jAjWel9jnR3ZoTv0Mr0WZkh3ZGwaOU__QIZA8EEsfyjmdvPM68ya-MFh194zghek6jh7WqtGYeYWmES35o2U71x2DQVk0PFLoHQk5V5M-cak670GmcqKy2iZm7PPrWZKcv_J3SBA-hRXn4VJI1r9NxMvgmKog-topZaM03&tracking_referrer=www.nature.com</a><br
class="">
<br class="">
And there is NO evidence of a
"single thing" if investigated in
relation to my model (having
mass-less constituents).<br class="">
<br class="">
And another evidence (an indirect
one): Only an object built by two
constituents (as a minimum) can have
inertia. We all know that the Higgs
model does not work for inertia. And
my model using 2 sub-particles
yields the mass of e.g. the electron
with an accuracy of 1 : 500'000. Do
you know any model which yields
results of this accuracy? -<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br
class="">
I do not know any else model for
this, and am presenting this model
since 15 years on conferences all
over the world, and there have been
no objections.<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br
class="">
<br class="">
Best<br class="">
Albrecht<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
<blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt;
margin-bottom: 5pt;" class=""
type="cite">
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times New Roman',
serif;" class=""><span class=""
lang="EN-US"> <o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times New Roman',
serif;" class=""><span class=""
lang="EN-US">Chip<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times New Roman',
serif;" class=""><span class=""
lang="EN-US"> <o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
<div class="">
<div style="border-style: solid
none none; border-top-color:
rgb(225, 225, 225);
border-top-width: 1pt; padding:
3pt 0cm 0cm;" class="">
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times New
Roman', serif;" class=""><b
class=""><span
style="font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif; color:
windowtext;" class=""
lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif; color:
windowtext;" class=""
lang="EN-US"><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>General
[<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"
style="color: purple;
text-decoration:
underline;" class="">mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>]<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="">On Behalf Of<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Dr.
Albrecht Giese<br class="">
<b class="">Sent:</b><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Saturday,
November 14, 2015 7:52 AM<br
class="">
<b class="">To:</b><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:af.kracklauer@web.de"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:af.kracklauer@web.de">af.kracklauer@web.de</a></a><br class="">
<b class="">Cc:</b><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org">general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a></a><br
class="">
<b class="">Subject:</b><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re: [General] Reply of comments
from what a model…</span><span
class="" lang="EN-US"><o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times New Roman',
serif;" class=""><span class=""
lang="EN-US"> <o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:
0cm 0cm 12pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times New Roman',
serif;"><span class=""
lang="EN-US">Hi Al,<br class="">
<br class="">
Why do we need a background? If
I assume only local forces
(strong and electric) for my
model, the calculation conforms
to the measurement (e.g. between
mass and magnetic moment) with a
precision of 2 : 1'000'000. This
is no incident. Not possible, if
a poorly defined and stable
background has a measurable
influence. - And if there should
be such background and it has
such little effect, which
mistake do we make if we ignore
that?<br class="">
<br class="">
For the competition of the 1/r<sup
class="">2</sup><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>law
for range of charges and the r<sup
class="">2</sup><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>law
for the quantity of charges we
have a popular example when we
look at the sky at night. The
sky is dark and that shows that
the r<sup class="">2</sup><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>case
(number of shining stars) does
in no way compensates for the
1/r<sup class="">2</sup><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>case
(light flow density from the
stars).<br class="">
<br class="">
Why is a 2 particle model
necessary?<br class="">
<br class="">
1.) for the conservation of
momentum<br class="">
2.) for a cause of the inertial
mass<br class="">
3.) for the radiation at
acceleration which occurs most
time, but does not occur in
specific situations. Not
explained elsewhere.<br class="">
<br class="">
Ciao, Albrecht<o:p class=""></o:p></span></p>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times New Roman',
serif;" class=""><span class=""
lang="EN-US">Am 13.11.2015 um
20:31 schrieb<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:af.kracklauer@web.de"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:af.kracklauer@web.de">af.kracklauer@web.de</a></a>:<o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt;
margin-bottom: 5pt;" class=""
type="cite">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times New
Roman', serif;" class=""><span
style="font-size: 9pt;
font-family: Verdana,
sans-serif;" class=""
lang="EN-US">Hi Albrecht:</span><span
class="" lang="EN-US"><o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times New
Roman', serif;" class=""><span
style="font-size: 9pt;
font-family: Verdana,
sans-serif;" class=""
lang="EN-US"> </span><span
class="" lang="EN-US"><o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times New
Roman', serif;" class=""><span
style="font-size: 9pt;
font-family: Verdana,
sans-serif;" class=""
lang="EN-US">Your proposed
experiment is hampered by
reality! If you do the
measurement with a gaget
bought in a store that has
knobes and a display, then
the measurement is for
certain for signals under
a couple hundred GHz and
based on some phenomena
for which the sensitivity
of man-made devices is
limited. And, if limited
to the electric field,
then there is a good
chance it is missing
altogether oscillating
signals by virtue of its
limited reaction time of
reset time, etc. etc. The
vast majority of the
background will be much
higher, the phenomena most
attuned to detecting might
be in fact the quantum
effects otherwise
explained with mystical
hokus-pokus! Also to be
noted is that, the
processes invovled in your
model, if they pertain to
elementray entities, will
have to be at very small
size and if at the
velocity (c) will be very
high energy, etc. so that
once again, it is quite
reasonable to suppose that
the universe is anything
but irrelavant! </span><span
class="" lang="EN-US"><o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times New
Roman', serif;" class=""><span
style="font-size: 9pt;
font-family: Verdana,
sans-serif;" class=""
lang="EN-US"> </span><span
class="" lang="EN-US"><o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times New
Roman', serif;" class=""><span
style="font-size: 9pt;
font-family: Verdana,
sans-serif;" class=""
lang="EN-US">Of course,
there is then the issue of
the divergence of the this
SED background.
Ameliorated to some
extent with the
realization that there is
no energy at a point in
empty space until a
charged entity is put
there, whereupon the
energy of interaction with
the rest of the universe
(not just by itself being
there and ignoring the
universe---as QM
theorists, and yourself,
are wont to do) is given
by the sum of interactions
over all particles not by
the integral over all
space, including empty
space. Looks at first
blush to be finite. </span><span
class="" lang="EN-US"><o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times New
Roman', serif;" class=""><span
style="font-size: 9pt;
font-family: Verdana,
sans-serif;" class=""
lang="EN-US"> </span><span
class="" lang="EN-US"><o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times New
Roman', serif;" class=""><span
style="font-size: 9pt;
font-family: Verdana,
sans-serif;" class=""
lang="EN-US">Why fight it?
Where the hell else will
you find a credible 2nd
particle? </span><span
class="" lang="EN-US"><o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times New
Roman', serif;" class=""><span
style="font-size: 9pt;
font-family: Verdana,
sans-serif;" class=""
lang="EN-US"> </span><span
class="" lang="EN-US"><o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times New
Roman', serif;" class=""><span
style="font-size: 9pt;
font-family: Verdana,
sans-serif;" class=""
lang="EN-US">ciao, Al</span><span
class="" lang="EN-US"><o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0cm 0cm
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times New
Roman', serif;" class=""><span
style="font-size: 9pt;
font-family: Verdana,
sans-serif;" class=""
lang="EN-US"> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span
class="" lang="EN-US"><o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
<div name="quote"
style="border-style: none
none none solid;
border-left-color: rgb(195,
217, 229);
border-left-width: 1.5pt;
padding: 0cm 0cm 0cm 8pt;
margin: 7.5pt 3.75pt 3.75pt
7.5pt; word-wrap:
break-word;" class="">
<div style="margin-bottom:
7.5pt;" class="">
<div style="margin: 0cm
0cm 0.0001pt; font-size:
12pt; font-family:
'Times New Roman',
serif;" class=""><b
class=""><span
style="font-size:
9pt; font-family:
Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class=""
lang="EN-US">Gesendet:</span></b><span
style="font-size: 9pt;
font-family: Verdana,
sans-serif;" class=""
lang="EN-US"> Freitag,
13. November 2015 um
12:11 Uhr<br class="">
<b class="">Von:</b> "Dr.
Albrecht Giese"<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:genmail@a-giese.de"><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:genmail@a-giese.de"><genmail@a-giese.de></a></a><br
class="">
<b class="">An:</b> <a
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:af.kracklauer@web.de"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:af.kracklauer@web.de">af.kracklauer@web.de</a></a><br
class="">
<b class="">Cc:</b> <a
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org">general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a></a><br
class="">
<b class="">Betreff:</b> Re:
[General] Reply of
comments from what a
model…</span><span
class="" lang="EN-US"><o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div name="quoted-content"
class="">
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0cm
0cm 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times
New Roman', serif;
background-color:
white;" class=""><span
style="font-size:
9pt; font-family:
Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class=""
lang="EN-US">Hi Al,<br
class="">
<br class="">
if we look to
charges you mention
the law 1/r<sup
class="">2</sup>.
Now we can perform a
simple physical
experiment having an
electrically charged
object and using it
to measure the
electric field
around us. I say: it
is very weak. Now
look to the distance
of the two
half-charges within
the particle having
a distance of 4*10<sup
class="">-13</sup><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>m. This means an increase of force
of about 25 orders
of magnitude
compared to what we
do in a lab. And the
difference is much
greater if we refer
to charges acting
from the universe.
So I think we do not
make a big mistake
assuming that there
is nothing outside
the particle.<br
class="">
<br class="">
Regarding my model,
the logic of
deduction was very
simple for me:<br
class="">
<br class="">
1.) We have
dilation, so there
must be a permanent
motion with c<br
class="">
2.) There must be 2
sub-particles
otherwise the
momentum law is
violated; 3 are not
possible as in
conflict with
experiments.<br
class="">
3.) The
sub-particles must
be mass-less,
otherwise c is not
possible<br class="">
4.) The whole
particle has mass
even though the
sub-particles are
mass-less. So there
must be a mechanism
to cause inertia. It
was immediately
clear for me that
inertia is a
consequence of
extension. Another
reason to assume a
particle which is
composed of parts.
(There is no other
working mechanism of
inertia known until
today.)<br class="">
5.) I had to find
the binding field
for the
sub-particles. I
have taken the
simplest one which I
could find which has
a potential minimum
at some distance.
And my first attempt
worked.<br class="">
<br class="">
That is all, and I
do not see any
possibility to
change one of the
points 1.) thru 5.)
without getting in
conflict with
fundamental physical
rules. And I do not
invent new facts or
rules beyond those
already known in
physics.<br class="">
<br class="">
So, where do you see
any kind of
arbitrariness or
missing
justification?<br
class="">
<br class="">
Tschüß!<br class="">
Albrecht<br class="">
<br class="">
<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span
class=""
lang="EN-US"><o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin:
0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times
New Roman', serif;
background-color:
white;" class=""><span
style="font-size:
9pt; font-family:
Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class=""
lang="EN-US">Am
12.11.2015 um
17:51 schrieb<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:af.kracklauer@web.de">af.kracklauer@web.de</a>:</span><span
class=""
lang="EN-US"><o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:
5pt; margin-bottom:
5pt;" class=""
type="cite">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div
style="margin:
0cm 0cm
0.0001pt;
font-size:
12pt;
font-family:
'Times New
Roman', serif;
background-color:
white;"
class=""><span
style="font-size:
9pt;
font-family:
Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class=""
lang="EN-US">Hi
Albrect:</span><span
class=""
lang="EN-US"><o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div
style="margin:
0cm 0cm
0.0001pt;
font-size:
12pt;
font-family:
'Times New
Roman', serif;
background-color:
white;"
class=""><span
style="font-size:
9pt;
font-family:
Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class=""
lang="EN-US"> </span><span
class=""
lang="EN-US"><o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div
style="margin:
0cm 0cm
0.0001pt;
font-size:
12pt;
font-family:
'Times New
Roman', serif;
background-color:
white;"
class=""><span
style="font-size:
9pt;
font-family:
Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class=""
lang="EN-US">We
are making
some progress.
</span><span
class=""
lang="EN-US"><o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div
style="margin:
0cm 0cm
0.0001pt;
font-size:
12pt;
font-family:
'Times New
Roman', serif;
background-color:
white;"
class=""><span
style="font-size:
9pt;
font-family:
Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class=""
lang="EN-US"> </span><span
class=""
lang="EN-US"><o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div
style="margin:
0cm 0cm
0.0001pt;
font-size:
12pt;
font-family:
'Times New
Roman', serif;
background-color:
white;"
class=""><span
style="font-size:
9pt;
font-family:
Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class=""
lang="EN-US">To
your remark
that Swinger
& Feynman
introduced
virtual
charges, I
note that they
used the same
term: "virtual
charge/particle,"
in spite of
the much older
meaning in
accord with
the charge and
mirror
example. In
the finest of
quantum
traditions,
they too
ignored the
rest of the
universe and
instead tried
to vest its
effect in the
"vacuum."
This idea was
suitably
mystical to
allow them to
introduce the
associated
plaver into
the folk lore
of QM, given
the sociology
of the day.
Even in spite
of this BS,
the idea still
has merit.
Your objection
on the basis
of the 1/r²
fall-off is
true but not
conclusive.
This fall-off
is matched by
a r² increase
in muber of
charges, so
the integrated
total
interaction
can be
expected to
have at least
some effect,
no matter
what. Think
of the
universe to
1st order as a
neutral,
low-density
plasma. I (and
some others)
hold that this
interaction is
responcible
for all
quantum
effects. In
any case, no
particle is a
universe unto
itself, the
rest have the
poulation and
time to take a
toll! </span><span
class=""
lang="EN-US"><o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div
style="margin:
0cm 0cm
0.0001pt;
font-size:
12pt;
font-family:
'Times New
Roman', serif;
background-color:
white;"
class=""><span
style="font-size:
9pt;
font-family:
Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class=""
lang="EN-US"> </span><span
class=""
lang="EN-US"><o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div
style="margin:
0cm 0cm
0.0001pt;
font-size:
12pt;
font-family:
'Times New
Roman', serif;
background-color:
white;"
class=""><span
style="font-size:
9pt;
font-family:
Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class=""
lang="EN-US">BTW,
this is
history
repeating
itself. Once
upon a time
there was
theory of
Brownian
motion that
posited an
internal cause
known as "elan
vital" to dust
specks
observed
hopping about
like Mexican
jumping beans.
Ultimately
this nonsense
was displaced
by the
observation
that the dust
spots were not
alone in their
immediate
universe but
imbededded in
a slurry of
other
particles,
also in
motion, to
which they
were reacting.
Nowadays
atoms are
analysed in QM
text books as
if they were
the only
object in the
universe---all
others being
too far away
(so it is
argued,
anyway). </span><span
class=""
lang="EN-US"><o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div
style="margin:
0cm 0cm
0.0001pt;
font-size:
12pt;
font-family:
'Times New
Roman', serif;
background-color:
white;"
class=""><span
style="font-size:
9pt;
font-family:
Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class=""
lang="EN-US"> </span><span
class=""
lang="EN-US"><o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div
style="margin:
0cm 0cm
0.0001pt;
font-size:
12pt;
font-family:
'Times New
Roman', serif;
background-color:
white;"
class=""><span
style="font-size:
9pt;
font-family:
Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class=""
lang="EN-US">Your
model, as it
stands, can be
free of
contradiction
and still
unstatisfying
because the
inputs seem to
be just what
is needed to
make the
conclusions
you aim to
make. Fine,
but what most
critics will
expect is that
these inputs
have to have
some kind of
justification
or motivation.
This is what
the second
particle
lacks. Where
is it when one
really looks
for it? It
has no
empirical
motivation.
Thus, this
theory then
has about the
same ultimate
structure, and
pursuasiveness,
as saying:
'don't worry
about it, God
did it; go
home, open a
beer, pop your
feet up, and
forget about
it---a theory
which explains
absolutely
everything!</span><span
class=""
lang="EN-US"><o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div
style="margin:
0cm 0cm
0.0001pt;
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12pt;
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'Times New
Roman', serif;
background-color:
white;"
class=""><span
style="font-size:
9pt;
font-family:
Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class=""
lang="EN-US"> </span><span
class=""
lang="EN-US"><o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div
style="margin:
0cm 0cm
0.0001pt;
font-size:
12pt;
font-family:
'Times New
Roman', serif;
background-color:
white;"
class=""><span
style="font-size:
9pt;
font-family:
Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class=""
lang="EN-US">Tschuß,
Al</span><span
class=""
lang="EN-US"><o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div
style="border-style:
none none none
solid;
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229);
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1.5pt;
padding: 0cm
0cm 0cm 8pt;
margin: 7.5pt
3.75pt 3.75pt
7.5pt;"
class="">
<div
style="margin-bottom:
7.5pt;"
class="">
<div
style="margin:
0cm 0cm
0.0001pt;
font-size:
12pt;
font-family:
'Times New
Roman', serif;
background-color:
white;"
class=""><b
class=""><span
style="font-size:
9pt;
font-family:
Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class=""
lang="EN-US">Gesendet:</span></b><span
style="font-size:
9pt;
font-family:
Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class=""
lang="EN-US"> Donnerstag,
12. November
2015 um 16:18
Uhr<br
class="">
<b class="">Von:</b> "Dr.
Albrecht
Giese"<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:genmail@a-giese.de" style="color:
purple;
text-decoration:
underline;"
class=""><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:genmail@a-giese.de"><genmail@a-giese.de></a></a><br
class="">
<b class="">An:</b> <a
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:af.kracklauer@web.de"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:af.kracklauer@web.de">af.kracklauer@web.de</a></a><br
class="">
<b class="">Cc:</b> <a
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org">general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a></a><br
class="">
<b class="">Betreff:</b> Re:
[General]
Reply of
comments from
what a model…</span><span
class=""
lang="EN-US"><o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div
style="margin:
0cm 0cm
0.0001pt;
font-size:
12pt;
font-family:
'Times New
Roman', serif;
background-color:
white;"
class=""><span
style="font-size:
10pt;
font-family:
Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class=""
lang="EN-US">Hi
Al,<br
class="">
<br class="">
I have gotten
a different
understanding
of what a
virtual
particle or a
virtual charge
is. This
phenomenon was
invented by
Julian
Schwinger and
Richard
Feynman. They
thought to
need it in
order to
explain
certain
reactions in
particle
physics. In
the case of
Schwinger it
was the Landé
factor, where
I have shown
that this
assumption is
not necessary.<br
class="">
<br class="">
If there is a
charge then of
course this
charge is
subject to
interactions
with all other
charges in the
universe. That
is correct.
But because of
the normal
distribution
of these other
charges in the
universe,
which cause a
good
compensation
of the
effects, and
because of the
distance law
we can think
about models
without
reference to
those. And
also there is
the problem
with virtual
particles and
vacuum
polarization
(which is
equivalent),
in that we
have this huge
problem that
the integrated
energy of it
over the
universe is by
a factor of
10^120 higher
than the
energy
measured. I
think this is
a really big
argument
against
virtual
effects.<br
class="">
<br class="">
Your example
of the virtual
image of a
charge in a
conducting
surface is a
different
case. It is,
as you write,
the
rearrangement
of charges in
the conducting
surface. So
the partner of
the charge is
physically the
mirror, not
the picture
behind it. But
which mirror
can cause the
second
particle in a
model if the
second
particle is
not assumed to
be real?<br
class="">
<br class="">
And what in
general is the
problem with a
two particle
model? It
fulfils the
momentum law.
And it does
not cause
further
conflicts. It
also explains
why an
accelerated
electron
sometimes
radiates,
sometimes not.
For an
experimental
evidence I
refer again to
the article of
Frank Wilczek
in "Nature"
which was
mentioned here
earlier:<br
class="">
<br class="">
<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://www.nature.com/articles/498031a.epdf?referrer_access_token=ben9To-3oo1NBniBt2zIw9RgN0jAjWel9jnR3ZoTv0Mr0WZkh3ZGwaOU__QIZA8EEsfyjmdvPM68ya-MFh194zghek6jh7WqtGYeYWmES35o2U71x2DQVk0PFLoHQk5V5M-cak670GmcqKy2iZm7PPrWZKcv_J3SBA-hRXn4VJI1r9NxMvgmKog-topZaM03&tracking_referrer=www.nature.com"><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.nature.com/articles/498031a.epdf?referrer_access_token=ben9To-3oo1NBniBt2zIw9RgN0jAjWel9jnR3ZoTv0Mr0WZkh3ZGwaOU__QIZA8EEsfyjmdvPM68ya-MFh194zghek6jh7WqtGYeYWmES35o2U71x2DQVk0PFLoHQk5V5M-cak670GmcqKy2iZm7PPrWZKcv_J3SBA-hRXn4VJI1r9NxMvgmKog-topZaM03&tracking_referrer=www.nature.com">http://www.nature.com/articles/498031a.epdf?referrer_access_token=ben9To-3oo1NBniBt2zIw9RgN0jAjWel9jnR3ZoTv0Mr0WZkh3ZGwaOU__QIZA8EEsfyjmdvPM68ya-MFh194zghek6jh7WqtGYeYWmES35o2U71x2DQVk0PFLoHQk5V5M-cak670GmcqKy2iZm7PPrWZKcv_J3SBA-hRXn4VJI1r9NxMvgmKog-topZaM03&tracking_referrer=www.nature.com</a></a>:<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span style="font-size:
9pt;
font-family:
Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class=""
lang="EN-US"><br
class="">
<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span
class=""
lang="EN-US"><o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
<div class="">
<div
style="margin:
0cm 0cm
0.0001pt;
font-size:
12pt;
font-family:
'Times New
Roman', serif;
background-color:
white;"
class=""><span
class="current-selection"><span style="font-size: 7.5pt; font-family:
Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class=""
lang="EN-US">He
writes: "By
combining
fragmentation
with super</span></span><span
class="ls0"><span
style="font-size:
7.5pt;
font-family:
Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class=""
lang="EN-US">-</span></span><span
class="current-selection"><span style="font-size: 7.5pt; font-family:
Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class=""
lang="EN-US">conductivity,
we can get
half-electrons
that are their
own
antiparticles."<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span></span><span
style="font-size:
7.5pt;
font-family:
Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class=""
lang="EN-US"><br
class="">
</span><span
class=""
lang="EN-US"><o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div
style="margin:
0cm 0cm
0.0001pt;
font-size:
12pt;
font-family:
'Times New
Roman', serif;
background-color:
white;"
class=""><span
style="font-size:
10pt;
font-family:
Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class=""
lang="EN-US">For
Wilczek this
is a
mysterious
result, in
view of my
model it is
not, on the
contrary it is
kind of a
proof.<br
class="">
<br class="">
Grüße<br
class="">
Albrecht</span><span
style="font-size:
9pt;
font-family:
Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class=""
lang="EN-US"><br
class="">
<br class="">
<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span
class=""
lang="EN-US"><o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
<div class="">
<div
style="margin:
0cm 0cm
0.0001pt;
font-size:
12pt;
font-family:
'Times New
Roman', serif;
background-color:
white;"
class=""><span
style="font-size:
10pt;
font-family:
Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class=""
lang="EN-US">Am
12.11.2015 um
03:06 schrieb<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:af.kracklauer@web.de"
style="color:
purple;
text-decoration:
underline;"
class="">af.kracklauer@web.de</a>:</span><span
class=""
lang="EN-US"><o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:
5pt;
margin-bottom:
5pt;" class=""
type="cite">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div
style="margin:
0cm 0cm
0.0001pt;
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12pt;
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'Times New
Roman', serif;
background-color:
white;"
class=""><span
style="font-size:
9pt;
font-family:
Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class=""
lang="EN-US">Hi
Albrecht:</span><span
class=""
lang="EN-US"><o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div
style="margin:
0cm 0cm
0.0001pt;
font-size:
12pt;
font-family:
'Times New
Roman', serif;
background-color:
white;"
class=""><span
style="font-size:
9pt;
font-family:
Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class=""
lang="EN-US"> </span><span
class=""
lang="EN-US"><o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div
style="margin:
0cm 0cm
0.0001pt;
font-size:
12pt;
font-family:
'Times New
Roman', serif;
background-color:
white;"
class=""><span
style="font-size:
9pt;
font-family:
Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class=""
lang="EN-US">Virtual
particles are
proxys for an
ensemble of
real
particles.
There is
nothing
folly-lolly
about them!
They simply
summarize the
total effect
of particles
that cannot be
ignored. To
ignore the
remainder of
the universe
becasue it is
inconvenient
for theory
formulation is
for certain
leading to
error. "No
man is an
island," and
no single
particle is a
universe!
Thus, it can
be argued
that, to
reject the
concept of
virtual
particles is
to reject a
facit of
reality that
must be
essential for
an explantion
of the
material
world.</span><span
class=""
lang="EN-US"><o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div
style="margin:
0cm 0cm
0.0001pt;
font-size:
12pt;
font-family:
'Times New
Roman', serif;
background-color:
white;"
class=""><span
style="font-size:
9pt;
font-family:
Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class=""
lang="EN-US"> </span><span
class=""
lang="EN-US"><o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div
style="margin:
0cm 0cm
0.0001pt;
font-size:
12pt;
font-family:
'Times New
Roman', serif;
background-color:
white;"
class=""><span
style="font-size:
9pt;
font-family:
Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class=""
lang="EN-US">For
example, if a
positive
charge is
placed near a
conducting
surface, the
charges in
that surface
will respond
to the
positive
charge by
rearranging
themselves so
as to give a
total field on
the surface of
zero strength
as if there
were a
negative
charge
(virtual)
behind the
mirror.
Without the
real charges
on the mirror
surface, the
concept of
"virtual"
negative
charge would
not be
necessary or
even useful. </span><span
class=""
lang="EN-US"><o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div
style="margin:
0cm 0cm
0.0001pt;
font-size:
12pt;
font-family:
'Times New
Roman', serif;
background-color:
white;"
class=""><span
style="font-size:
9pt;
font-family:
Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class=""
lang="EN-US"> </span><span
class=""
lang="EN-US"><o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div
style="margin:
0cm 0cm
0.0001pt;
font-size:
12pt;
font-family:
'Times New
Roman', serif;
background-color:
white;"
class=""><span
style="font-size:
9pt;
font-family:
Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class=""
lang="EN-US">The
concept of
virtual charge
as the second
particle in
your model
seems to me to
be not just a
wild
supposition,
but an
absolute
necessity.
Every charge
is, without
choice, in
constant
interaction
with every
other charge
in the
universe, has
been so since
the big bang
(if such were)
and will
remain so till
the big crunch
(if such is to
be)! The
universe
cannot be
ignored. If
you reject
including the
universe by
means of
virtual
charges, them
you have a lot
more work to
do to make
your theory
reasonable
some how else.
In particular
in view of the
fact that the
second
particles in
your model
have never
ever been seen
or even
suspected in
the various
experiments
resulting in
the
disasssmbly of
whatever
targert was
used. </span><span
class=""
lang="EN-US"><o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div
style="margin:
0cm 0cm
0.0001pt;
font-size:
12pt;
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'Times New
Roman', serif;
background-color:
white;"
class=""><span
style="font-size:
9pt;
font-family:
Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class=""
lang="EN-US"> </span><span
class=""
lang="EN-US"><o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div
style="margin:
0cm 0cm
0.0001pt;
font-size:
12pt;
font-family:
'Times New
Roman', serif;
background-color:
white;"
class=""><span
style="font-size:
9pt;
font-family:
Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class=""
lang="EN-US">MfG,
Al</span><span
class=""
lang="EN-US"><o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div
style="margin:
0cm 0cm
0.0001pt;
font-size:
12pt;
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'Times New
Roman', serif;
background-color:
white;"
class=""><span
style="font-size:
9pt;
font-family:
Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class=""
lang="EN-US"> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span class="" lang="EN-US"><o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
<div
style="border-style:
none none none
solid;
border-left-color:
rgb(195, 217,
229);
border-left-width:
1.5pt;
padding: 0cm
0cm 0cm 8pt;
margin: 7.5pt
3.75pt 3.75pt
7.5pt;"
class="">
<div
style="margin-bottom:
7.5pt;"
class="">
<div
style="margin:
0cm 0cm
0.0001pt;
font-size:
12pt;
font-family:
'Times New
Roman', serif;
background-color:
white;"
class=""><b
class=""><span
style="font-size:
9pt;
font-family:
Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class=""
lang="EN-US">Gesendet:</span></b><span
style="font-size:
9pt;
font-family:
Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class=""
lang="EN-US"> Mittwoch,
11. November
2015 um 22:37
Uhr<br
class="">
<b class="">Von:</b> "Dr.
Albrecht
Giese"<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:genmail@a-giese.de"><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:genmail@a-giese.de"><genmail@a-giese.de></a></a><br
class="">
<b class="">An:</b> <a
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:af.kracklauer@web.de"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:af.kracklauer@web.de">af.kracklauer@web.de</a></a>,<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"
style="color:
purple;
text-decoration:
underline;"
class="">general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a><br
class="">
<b class="">Betreff:</b> Re:
[General]
Reply of
comments from
what a model…</span><span
class=""
lang="EN-US"><o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div
style="margin:
0cm 0cm
0.0001pt;
font-size:
12pt;
font-family:
'Times New
Roman', serif;
background-color:
white;"
class=""><span
style="font-size:
9pt;
font-family:
Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class=""
lang="EN-US">Hi
Al,<br
class="">
<br class="">
if we think in
categories of
a virtual
image, then we
are in my
understanding
fully on the
path of
present main
stream QM. I
have
understood
that we all
want to do
something
better than
that.<br
class="">
<br class="">
Regarding
virtual
phenomena I
would like to
remind you
again of the
history of
such ideas. In
the 1940ies
Julian
Schwinger has
introduced
vacuum
polarization
(which is
equivalent to
virtual
particles
according to
Feynman) to
determine the
Landé factor
for refining
the Bohr
magneton. This
was the birth
of it.<br
class="">
<br class="">
On the other
hand I have
shown that I
can deduce the
Bohr magneton
as well as the
Landé factor
in a classical
way if I use
my particle
model. And
that is
possible and
was done on a
pure classical
way. For me
this is a good
example that
we can do
things better
than by QM. In
particular I
try to have
correct
results
without using
any virtual
objects.<br
class="">
<br class="">
Back to your
question: If
we build a
particle model
on a classical
basis then
there is no
place for a
virtual image,
and so I see
the need for
two
sub-particles.<br
class="">
<br class="">
Ciao, Albrecht<br
class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span
class=""
lang="EN-US"><o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
<div class="">
<div
style="margin:
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Roman', serif;
background-color:
white;"
class=""><span
style="font-size:
9pt;
font-family:
Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class=""
lang="EN-US">Am
11.11.2015 um
17:27 schrieb<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:af.kracklauer@web.de"
style="color:
purple;
text-decoration:
underline;"
class="">af.kracklauer@web.de</a>:</span><span
class=""
lang="EN-US"><o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:
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margin-bottom:
5pt;" class=""
type="cite">
<div class="">
<div class="">
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class=""
lang="EN-US"> <span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><span class="" lang="EN-US"><o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
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class=""
lang="EN-US"> <span
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class=""></o:p></span></div>
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margin: 7.5pt
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class="">
<div
style="margin-bottom:
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class="">
<div
style="margin:
0cm 0cm
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white;"
class=""><b
class=""><span
style="font-size:
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sans-serif;"
class=""
lang="EN-US">Gesendet:</span></b><span
style="font-size:
9pt;
font-family:
Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class=""
lang="EN-US"> Mittwoch,
11. November
2015 um 11:54
Uhr<br
class="">
<b class="">Von:</b> "Dr.
Albrecht
Giese"<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:genmail@a-giese.de"><a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:genmail@a-giese.de"><genmail@a-giese.de></a></a><br
class="">
<b class="">An:</b> <a
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org">general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a></a><br
class="">
<b class="">Betreff:</b> Re:
[General]
Reply of
comments from
what a model…</span><span
class=""
lang="EN-US"><o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div
style="margin:
0cm 0cm
0.0001pt;
font-size:
12pt;
font-family:
'Times New
Roman', serif;
background-color:
white;"
class=""><span
style="font-size:
9pt;
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Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class=""
lang="EN-US">Hi
Albrecht:</span><span
class=""
lang="EN-US"><o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div
style="margin:
0cm 0cm
0.0001pt;
font-size:
12pt;
font-family:
'Times New
Roman', serif;
background-color:
white;"
class=""><span
style="font-size:
9pt;
font-family:
Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class=""
lang="EN-US"> </span><span
class=""
lang="EN-US"><o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div
style="margin:
0cm 0cm
0.0001pt;
font-size:
12pt;
font-family:
'Times New
Roman', serif;
background-color:
white;"
class=""><span
style="font-size:
9pt;
font-family:
Verdana,
sans-serif;
color: rgb(0,
102, 0);"
class=""
lang="EN-US">You
said: A model
with only one
particle is in
my view also
not possible
as it violates
the
conservation
of momentum. A
single object
can never
oscillate.</span><span
class=""
lang="EN-US"><o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div
style="margin:
0cm 0cm
0.0001pt;
font-size:
12pt;
font-family:
'Times New
Roman', serif;
background-color:
white;"
class=""><span
style="font-size:
9pt;
font-family:
Verdana,
sans-serif;"
class=""
lang="EN-US"> </span><span
class=""
lang="EN-US"><o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div
style="margin:
0cm 0cm
0.0001pt;
font-size:
12pt;
font-family:
'Times New
Roman', serif;
background-color:
white;"
class=""><span
style="font-size:
9pt;
font-family:
Verdana,
sans-serif;
color: rgb(0,
102, 0);"
class=""
lang="EN-US">I
ask: Why
can't a single
particle
oscillate
against, or in
consort with,
its own
virtual image.
(Presuming
there is
charge complex
around---mirror
in 2d,
negative
sphere (I
think) in
3d)? </span><span
class=""
lang="EN-US"><o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div
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class=""><span
style="font-size:
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sans-serif;"
class=""
lang="EN-US"> </span><span
class=""
lang="EN-US"><o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
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102, 0);"
class=""
lang="EN-US">ciao,
Al</span><span
class=""
lang="EN-US"><o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
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