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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Hello John,<br>
<br>
there seems indeed something not understood about the reaction
between nucleons (i.e. quarks) and leptons. I have heard about the
differently measured size of a proton depending on whether it is
in contact with electrons or muons. Thanks that you have reminded
me of this.<br>
<br>
The case of a muon in the atomic orbit, from which a smaller size
of the proton follows, can be at least qualitatively deduced from
the assumption of a strong force in leptons as given in my model.
I should calculate this quantitatively but need some extra time to
do it. Have it on schedule.<br>
<br>
There is another influence of the assumption of strong force in
electrons in my model. I have shown in my talk in San Diego that
the simultaneous influence of the electrical force and the strong
force explains classically the Landé factor. <br>
<br>
You write about a talk which you have given about the topic of the
proton's size at MEDEL2012 and about proceedings of it. Could you
do me the favor and give me a link or some other connection to
your contribution?<br>
<br>
Regards<br>
Albrecht<br>
<br>
<br>
Am 01.12.2015 um 01:35 schrieb John Williamson:</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:56601AB5.1010606@a-giese.de" type="cite"><br>
<div class="moz-forward-container">Hello Albrecht,<br>
<div style="direction: ltr;font-family: Tahoma;color:
#000000;font-size: 10pt;"> <br>
Good for you. I knew about this (peripherally) - but would
have been worried if there had been a direct measurement of
leptons feeling the "strong force" - which this is not.<br>
<br>
There are a set of these "anomalies". The most important (and
oldest to my knowledge) is that measured in spin-spin
scattering at the ZGS (O'Fallon et al 1977). There is another
(the EMC effect) with my own name on the papers (I am not
central to this work and am one of dozens of "authors" on the
papers: my role was just to write some of the code for
electromagnetic (QED) shower simulation and for parts of a
"QCD" monte-carlo used in some of the analysis).<br>
<br>
There are more recent experiments where the proton "size"
differs (its cross-section - that is the inter-action rate)
depending on which lepton you observe it with.<br>
<br>
These are all, in my view, down to a lack of understanding as
to what the "strong" force is. There are no actual
calculations for this because the only theory we have (QCD) is
non-perturbative. I will translate (for mothers) "non
perturbative" is shorthand for - one cannot calculate anything
with it using any known techniques. Yes - that bad.<br>
<br>
The underlying anomlies all come fron the proper nature of the
strong force. THis was part of my invited (keynote) talk at
MENDEL2012 and there is something on this in the proceedings.<br>
<br>
Regards, John.<br>
<div style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #000000;
font-size: 16px">
<hr tabindex="-1">
<div style="direction: ltr;" id="divRpF506109"><font
color="#000000" size="2" face="Tahoma"><b>From:</b>
Albrecht Giese [<a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:genmail@a-giese.de">genmail@a-giese.de</a>]<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, November 30, 2015 8:19 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> John Williamson; Nature of Light and
Particles - General Discussion<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [General] Reply of comments from
what a model…<br>
</font><br>
</div>
<div>Hello John,<br>
<br>
it took me some time to find references, sorry. And I
could not find the original paper of DESY about it, but a
magazine. <br>
<br>
The indication of the strong force to leptons is a more
indirect conclusion. In 1997 two teams at the HERA storage
ring at DESY found an unexpected excess of events in
quark-positron interactions. These events were unexpected
as the Standard Model excludes an interaction of quarks
with leptons on the basis of the strong force. It was then
made the ad hoc assumption that an unknown particle may
exist with name leptoquark. Such particle is not excluded
by the Standard Model, and it is assumed to react with
leptons and with quarks. The following search for
leptoquarks at DESY and at other labs was without success.
So the direct interaction between quarks and leptons by
the strong force will remain as a solution.<br>
<br>
I can give the following references for this:<br>
1.) Scientific American, March 24, 1997 about the
detection of additional events<br>
2.) <small> </small>"Search for contact interactions,
large extra dimensions and finite quark radius in <i>ep </i>collisions
at HERA", ZEUS Collaboration, Physics Letters B 591 (2004)
23-41 as an example for the search for leptoquarks.<br>
<br>
But I would like to emphasize again that the assumption
for the strong force in e.g. the electron makes it
possible to deduce the inertial mass of this particle (as
also of others). I do not know any other approach which
provides an origin of inertia deduced from basics.<br>
<br>
Regards<br>
Albrecht<br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 27.11.2015 um 03:46
schrieb John Williamson:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
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<div style="direction:ltr; font-family:Tahoma;
color:#000000; font-size:10pt">Hello Albrecht,<br>
<br>
So the strong force has been observed to act on
electrons at DESY? Very interesting. Do you have a
reference for that?<br>
<br>
Regards, John.<br>
<div style="font-family:Times New Roman;
color:#000000; font-size:16px">
<hr tabindex="-1">
<div id="divRpF304961" style="direction:ltr"><font
color="#000000" size="2" face="Tahoma"><b>From:</b>
General [<a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:general-bounces+john.williamson=glasgow.ac.uk@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"
target="_blank">general-bounces+john.williamson=glasgow.ac.uk@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>]
on behalf of Albrecht Giese [<a
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:genmail@a-giese.de"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:genmail@a-giese.de">genmail@a-giese.de</a></a>]<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, November 26, 2015 4:53 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Richard Gauthier<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Nature of Light and Particles -
General Discussion<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [General] Reply of comments
from what a model…<br>
</font><br>
</div>
<div>Hallo Richard,<br>
<br>
thank you for your alternative proposal.
Unfortunately there are some points of
misunderstanding with respect to my model. And
also some other physical arguments I like to point
to - in your text.<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 23.11.2015 um
19:43 schrieb Richard Gauthier:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">Hello Albrecht,
<div class=""><br class="">
<div class=""> I’m glad that you say that
developing a 2-particle model of the
electron was not your main interest. I think
it will be useful to see what parts of your
model may be saved, and what parts may have
to go, to get a working model in progress
for the electron which most of us here might
agree on. First, since there is no generally
accepted evidence of a nuclear strong force
relation to electrons, let’s drop that
proposal for holding your 2 circulating
charged massless particles in orbit, at
least for now. </div>
</div>
</blockquote>
Here I object. 1) The strong force in the electron
was seen at DESY experiments in the 1990s. 2)
Without referring to the strong force, the
calculation of the mass of the electron has
incorrect results by a factor of several hundred.
This was found out by physicists in the 1940s,
e.g. by Helmut Hönl. (I can send you his paper if
you are interested, however in German.)<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div class="">
<div class="">Second, since there’s no
evidence for a two-particle structure of the
electron from any scattering or other
experiments, let’s also consider dropping
that proposal for now. Your insistence that
a 2-particle model is required for
conservation of momentum at the sub-electron
level does not seem sufficient to accept
this part of your 2-particle model. We don’t
even know experimentally that conservation
of momentum exists at the sub-electron
level, do we? Just an article of faith?</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
This may be a point of personal judgement, but in
my view the conservation if momentum is a
fundamental law in physics, maybe the most
fundamental law. It follows logically from the
symmetry of space (refer to Emmy Noether, who has
set some logical basics for QM).<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div class="">
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""> So what is left of your
model? You claim that your two particles are
massless and travel at light speed. But you
don’t say that they are also without energy,
do you? If there are two massless particles,
they will still each have to have 0.511/2
MeV of energy if the electron’s total
resting energy 0.511 MeV is divided equally
between them. </div>
</div>
</blockquote>
I have explained this in a former comment. The two
"basic" particles do not have any energy by
themselves. The energy is caused by the motion of
the basic particles in the situation of a bind.
Mass is anyway a dynamic property of matter as it
is even seen by present main stream physics.<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div class="">
<div class="">One kind of particle that has no
rest mass but has energy and travels at
light speed is a photon. </div>
</div>
</blockquote>
This assumption is not true as explained above. <br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div class="">
<div class="">(Let’s forget about gluons here
for now since there is no accepted evidence
for a strong nuclear force on electrons). So
each of your two particles (if there are
still two for some other reason besides
conservation of momentum, and a need for an
attractive force between them to overcome
their electric repulsion) could be a charged
photon (circulating charge is necessary to
get a magnetic moment for the model) with
energy 0.511/2 MeV, which has energy but no
rest mass. OK. </div>
</div>
</blockquote>
Not true!<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div class="">
<div class="">But each of these two charged
photons, each of energy 0.511/2 MeV = mc^2/2
will have a wavelength of 2 Compton
wavelengths = 2 h/mc . If 1 wavelength of
each photon is turned into a single closed
loop, the each loop would have a radius
2hbar/mc, which is twice the radius hbar/mc
of your proposed electron model. To make
each of these photons move circularly in a
way that each of their wavelengths gives a
radius of hbar/mc as in your model, each
photon would have to move in a double loop.
So there will be two photons each of energy
0.511/2 moving in a double loop in this
model. This is getting complicated.</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
The Compton wavelength has a different origin. It
comes from scattering of photons at an electron
(example). The Compton wavelength is then the
maximum change of the wavelength of the photon in
such process. - This wavelength is in this way not
any geometrical extension of the electron. Yes, we
find this value in some calculations, but we
should be cautious to use it for the determination
of dimension. <br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div class="">
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""> Let’s drop one of the two
photons for simplicity (Occam’s razor put to
good use) so that the other photon will have
the full electron energy 0.511 MeV . </div>
</div>
</blockquote>
What is the origin of this energy in the photon?
And which mechanism causes actually the energy of
this photon? A photon can in general have any
energy, doesn't it?<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div class="">
<div class="">This photon will now have a
wavelength 1 Compton wavelength. If this 1
Compton wavelength charged photon moves in a
single loop it will create an electron with
magnetic moment 1 Bohr magneton and a spin
of 1 hbar. That’s good for the experimental
magnetic moment of the electron (slightly
more than 1 Bohr magneton) but bad for its
experimental spin (which you tried to reduce
to 1/2 hbar in your model by a delayed force
argument). If the photon moves in a double
loop it will be good for the spin (which now
is exactly 1/2 hbar) but bad for the
magnetic moment (now 1/2 Bohr magneton). </div>
</div>
</blockquote>
Why does the double loop reduce the spin? Why the
Bohr magneton? The magnetic moment depends on the
area in the loop. How large is this area in this
case?<br>
<br>
The magnetic moment is larger than the Bohr
magneton. In my model this is the contribution of
the (small) electrical charges in view of the
(large) strong charges.<br>
<br>
And which mechanism causes the double loop? It
cannot come from itself. A circuit is a simple
structure which does not need many influences. A
double loop is more and needs a cause.<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div class="">
<div class="">So there’s still a problem with
the model’s magnetic moment. But this
double-looping charged photon model now has
gained the zitterbewegung frequency of the
Dirac electron which is desirable for an
electron model which hopes to model the
Dirac electron. And it also has 720 degree
symmetry which the Dirac electron has (while
your original 2-particle model has a
rotational symmetry of 180 degrees, since
each particle would take the place of the
other after a half-circle rotation).</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
In my model the zitterbewegung frequency is the
circulation frequency of the basic particles. The
rotational symmetry is not 180 but 360 degrees as
the strong field of the basic particles is not
equal, but one basic particle changes the other
one by electrical influence. This works analogue
to the case of the van der Waals force. <br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div class="">
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""> What do you think of this
new model so far?</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
Did I explain it sufficiently?<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div class="">
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""> Richard</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
Albrecht<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div class="">
<div class=""><br class="">
<div>
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">On Nov 22, 2015, at 9:43
AM, Albrecht Giese <<a
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:genmail@a-giese.de"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:genmail@a-giese.de">genmail@a-giese.de</a></a>>
wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<div class="">
<div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" class="">Hello
Richard,<br class="">
<br class="">
I never have persistently tried to
develop a 2-particle model. What I
have persistently tried was to find
a good explanation for relativistic
dilation. And there I found a
solution which has satisfied me. All
the rest including the 2 particles
in my model where logical
consequences where I did not see
alternatives. If there should be a
model which is an alternative in one
or the other aspect, I will be happy
to see it.<br class="">
<br class="">
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am
22.11.2015 um 00:13 schrieb
Richard Gauthier:<br class="">
</div>
<blockquote type="cite" class="">Hello
Albrecht,
<div class=""><br class="">
<div class=""> I admire your
persistence in trying to save
your doomed (in my opinion)
2-particle electron model. </div>
</div>
</blockquote>
Why 2 particles in the model? I say
it again:<br class="">
<br class="">
1) to maintain the conservation of
momentum in the view of oscillations<br
class="">
2) to have a mechanism for inertia
(which has very precise results,
otherwise non-existent in present
physics)<br class="">
<br class="">
I will be happy to see alternatives
for both points. Up to now I have
not seen any.<br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">Do you understand
how unreasonable and
irrational it appears for you
to write: "Then I had to
determine the field constant S
which is normally provided by
experiments. But quantum
mechanics is so unprecise
regarding the numeric value of
the strong force that there is
no number available in the
data tables. Here I found that
I could use the Bohr magneton
to determine the constant.
(Which turned out to be S =
hbar*c, merely a constant).”
? <br class="">
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
I have once asked one of the leading
theorists at DESY for a better
quantitative explanation or
determination of the strong force.
His answer: Sorry, the strong force
is not good enough understood so
that I cannot give you better
information. <br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">How could the
number S that you could not
find in “unprecise” tables
about the strong force
possibly be the same number
that can be found precisely
from the electron’s Bohr
magneton ehbar/2m and which
you claim is S = hbar*c ? This
is an unbelievable, desperate
stretch of imagination and
"grasping at straws", in my
opinion. <br class="">
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
When I have realized that my model
deduces the Bohr magneton, I have
used the measurements available in
that context to determine my field
constant. (I could also go the other
way: I can use the Planck / Einstein
relation E = h * f and the
Einstein-relation E = m*c<sup
class="">2</sup> to determine the
constant S from the internal
frequency in my model. Same result.
But I like the other way better.
BTW: Do you know any other model
which deduces these relations rather
than using them as given?)<br
class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Here is the
meaning of “grasping at
straws” from <a
class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/grasp+at+straws"><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/grasp+at+straws">http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/grasp+at+straws</a></a> :</div>
<h2 class=""
style="font-size:1.8rem;
line-height:1.8rem;
display:inline-block;
margin:0px 0.2rem 6px 0px;
color:rgb(64,64,64);
font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">
grasp at straws</h2>
<div class=""><span class="hvr"
style="color:rgb(64,64,64);
font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:13px;
line-height:19.5px">Also,</span><span
class=""
style="color:rgb(64,64,64);
font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:13px;
line-height:19.5px"> </span><b
class=""
style="color:rgb(64,64,64);
font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:13px;
line-height:19.5px"><span
class="hvr" style="">clutch</span> at <span
class="hvr" style="">straws</span></b><span
class=""
style="color:rgb(64,64,64);
font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:13px;
line-height:19.5px">.</span><span
class=""
style="color:rgb(64,64,64);
font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:13px;
line-height:19.5px"> </span><span
class="hvr"
style="color:rgb(64,64,64);
font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:13px;
line-height:19.5px">Make</span><span
class=""
style="color:rgb(64,64,64);
font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:13px;
line-height:19.5px"> </span><span
class=""
style="color:rgb(64,64,64);
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font-size:13px;
line-height:19.5px">a</span><span
class=""
style="color:rgb(64,64,64);
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font-size:13px;
line-height:19.5px"> </span><span
class="hvr"
style="color:rgb(64,64,64);
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font-size:13px;
line-height:19.5px">desperate</span><span
class=""
style="color:rgb(64,64,64);
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font-size:13px;
line-height:19.5px"> </span><span
class="hvr"
style="color:rgb(64,64,64);
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font-size:13px;
line-height:19.5px">attempt</span><span
class=""
style="color:rgb(64,64,64);
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font-size:13px;
line-height:19.5px"> </span><span
class=""
style="color:rgb(64,64,64);
font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:13px;
line-height:19.5px">at</span><span
class=""
style="color:rgb(64,64,64);
font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:13px;
line-height:19.5px"> </span><span
class="hvr"
style="color:rgb(64,64,64);
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font-size:13px;
line-height:19.5px">saving</span><span
class=""
style="color:rgb(64,64,64);
font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:13px;
line-height:19.5px"> </span><span
class="hvr"
style="color:rgb(64,64,64);
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font-size:13px;
line-height:19.5px">oneself.</span><span
class=""
style="color:rgb(64,64,64);
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font-size:13px;
line-height:19.5px"> </span><span
class="hvr"
style="color:rgb(64,64,64);
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font-size:13px;
line-height:19.5px">For</span><span
class=""
style="color:rgb(64,64,64);
font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:13px;
line-height:19.5px"> </span><span
class="hvr"
style="color:rgb(64,64,64);
font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:13px;
line-height:19.5px">example,</span><span
class=""
style="color:rgb(64,64,64);
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font-size:13px;
line-height:19.5px"> </span><i
class=""
style="color:rgb(64,64,64);
font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:13px;
line-height:19.5px">He <span
class="hvr" style="">had </span><span
class="hvr" style="">lost</span> <span
class="hvr" style="">the</span> <span
class="hvr" style="">argument,</span> <span
class="hvr" style="">but</span> he <span
class="hvr" style="">kept</span> <span
class="hvr" style="">grasping</span> at <span
class="hvr" style="">straws,</span> <span
class="hvr" style="">naming</span> <span
class="hvr" style="">numerous</span> <span
class="hvr" style="">previous</span> <span
class="hvr" style="">cases</span> <span
class="hvr" style="">that </span><span
class="hvr" style="">had</span> <span
class="hvr" style="">little</span> to do <span
class="hvr" style="">with</span> <span
class="hvr" style="">this</span> <span
class="hvr" style="">one</span></i><span
class=""
style="color:rgb(64,64,64);
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line-height:19.5px">.</span><span
class=""
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class="hvr"
style="color:rgb(64,64,64);
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font-size:13px;
line-height:19.5px">This</span><span
class=""
style="color:rgb(64,64,64);
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class="hvr"
style="color:rgb(64,64,64);
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line-height:19.5px">metaphoric</span><span
class=""
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line-height:19.5px"> </span><span
class="hvr"
style="color:rgb(64,64,64);
font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:13px;
line-height:19.5px">expression</span><span
class=""
style="color:rgb(64,64,64);
font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:13px;
line-height:19.5px"> </span><span
class="hvr"
style="color:rgb(64,64,64);
font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:13px;
line-height:19.5px">alludes</span><span
class=""
style="color:rgb(64,64,64);
font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:13px;
line-height:19.5px"> </span><span
class=""
style="color:rgb(64,64,64);
font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:13px;
line-height:19.5px">to</span><span
class=""
style="color:rgb(64,64,64);
font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:13px;
line-height:19.5px"> </span><span
class=""
style="color:rgb(64,64,64);
font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:13px;
line-height:19.5px">a</span><span
class=""
style="color:rgb(64,64,64);
font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:13px;
line-height:19.5px"> </span><span
class="hvr"
style="color:rgb(64,64,64);
font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:13px;
line-height:19.5px">drowning</span><span
class=""
style="color:rgb(64,64,64);
font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:13px;
line-height:19.5px"> </span><span
class="hvr"
style="color:rgb(64,64,64);
font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:13px;
line-height:19.5px">person </span><span
class="hvr"
style="color:rgb(64,64,64);
font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:13px;
line-height:19.5px">trying</span><span
class=""
style="color:rgb(64,64,64);
font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:13px;
line-height:19.5px"> </span><span
class=""
style="color:rgb(64,64,64);
font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:13px;
line-height:19.5px">to</span><span
class=""
style="color:rgb(64,64,64);
font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:13px;
line-height:19.5px"> </span><span
class="hvr"
style="color:rgb(64,64,64);
font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:13px;
line-height:19.5px">save</span><span
class=""
style="color:rgb(64,64,64);
font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:13px;
line-height:19.5px"> </span><span
class="hvr"
style="color:rgb(64,64,64);
font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:13px;
line-height:19.5px">himself</span><span
class=""
style="color:rgb(64,64,64);
font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:13px;
line-height:19.5px"> </span><span
class=""
style="color:rgb(64,64,64);
font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:13px;
line-height:19.5px">by</span><span
class=""
style="color:rgb(64,64,64);
font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:13px;
line-height:19.5px"> </span><span
class="hvr"
style="color:rgb(64,64,64);
font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:13px;
line-height:19.5px">grabbing</span><span
class=""
style="color:rgb(64,64,64);
font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:13px;
line-height:19.5px"> </span><span
class=""
style="color:rgb(64,64,64);
font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:13px;
line-height:19.5px">at</span><span
class=""
style="color:rgb(64,64,64);
font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:13px;
line-height:19.5px"> </span><span
class="hvr"
style="color:rgb(64,64,64);
font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:13px;
line-height:19.5px">flimsy</span><span
class=""
style="color:rgb(64,64,64);
font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:13px;
line-height:19.5px"> </span><span
class="hvr"
style="color:rgb(64,64,64);
font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:13px;
line-height:19.5px">reeds.</span><span
class=""
style="color:rgb(64,64,64);
font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:13px;
line-height:19.5px"> </span><span
class="hvr"
style="color:rgb(64,64,64);
font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:13px;
line-height:19.5px">First</span><span
class=""
style="color:rgb(64,64,64);
font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:13px;
line-height:19.5px"> </span><span
class="hvr"
style="color:rgb(64,64,64);
font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:13px;
line-height:19.5px">recorded</span><span
class=""
style="color:rgb(64,64,64);
font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:13px;
line-height:19.5px"> </span><span
class=""
style="color:rgb(64,64,64);
font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:13px;
line-height:19.5px">in</span><span
class=""
style="color:rgb(64,64,64);
font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:13px;
line-height:19.5px"> </span><span
class="hvr"
style="color:rgb(64,64,64);
font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:13px;
line-height:19.5px">1534,</span><span
class=""
style="color:rgb(64,64,64);
font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:13px;
line-height:19.5px"> </span><span
class="hvr"
style="color:rgb(64,64,64);
font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:13px;
line-height:19.5px">the</span><span
class=""
style="color:rgb(64,64,64);
font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:13px;
line-height:19.5px"> </span><span
class="hvr"
style="color:rgb(64,64,64);
font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:13px;
line-height:19.5px">term</span><span
class=""
style="color:rgb(64,64,64);
font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:13px;
line-height:19.5px"> </span><span
class="hvr"
style="color:rgb(64,64,64);
font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:13px;
line-height:19.5px">was </span><span
class="hvr"
style="color:rgb(64,64,64);
font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:13px;
line-height:19.5px">used</span><span
class=""
style="color:rgb(64,64,64);
font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:13px;
line-height:19.5px"> </span><span
class="hvr"
style="color:rgb(64,64,64);
font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:13px;
line-height:19.5px">figuratively</span><span
class=""
style="color:rgb(64,64,64);
font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:13px;
line-height:19.5px"> </span><span
class=""
style="color:rgb(64,64,64);
font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:13px;
line-height:19.5px">by</span><span
class=""
style="color:rgb(64,64,64);
font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:13px;
line-height:19.5px"> </span><span
class="hvr"
style="color:rgb(64,64,64);
font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:13px;
line-height:19.5px">the</span><span
class=""
style="color:rgb(64,64,64);
font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:13px;
line-height:19.5px"> </span><span
class="hvr"
style="color:rgb(64,64,64);
font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:13px;
line-height:19.5px">late</span><span
class=""
style="color:rgb(64,64,64);
font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:13px;
line-height:19.5px"> </span><span
class="hvr"
style="color:rgb(64,64,64);
font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:13px;
line-height:19.5px">1600s.</span> </div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">I am not at all
opposed to using desperate
measures to find or save a
hypothesis that is very
important to you. Max Planck
described his efforts to fit
the black body radiation
equation using quantized
energies of hypothetical
oscillators as an "act of
desperation”. So you are of
course free to keep
desperately trying to save
your 2-particle electron
hypothesis. I personally think
that your many talents in
physics could be better spent
in other ways, for example in
revising your electron model
to make it more consistent
with experimental facts.</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
Do you know any other electron model
which is so much consistent with
experimental facts (e.g. size and
mass) as this one (without needing
the usual mystifications of quantum
mechanics)?<br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">
<div class=""> </div>
<div class=""> By the way, van
der Waals forces do not "bind
atoms to form a molecule".
They are attractive or
repulsive forces between
molecules or between parts of
a molecule. According to
Wikipedia:</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">" <span class=""
style="color:rgb(37,37,37);
font-family:sans-serif;
font-size:14px;
line-height:22px;
background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">the </span><b
class=""
style="color:rgb(37,37,37);
font-family:sans-serif;
font-size:14px;
line-height:22px">van der
Waals forces</b><span
class=""
style="color:rgb(37,37,37);
font-family:sans-serif;
font-size:14px;
line-height:22px;
background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"> (or </span><b
class=""
style="color:rgb(37,37,37);
font-family:sans-serif;
font-size:14px;
line-height:22px">van der
Waals' interaction</b><span
class=""
style="color:rgb(37,37,37);
font-family:sans-serif;
font-size:14px;
line-height:22px;
background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">),
named after </span><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netherlands"
title="Netherlands" class=""
style="text-decoration:none;
color:rgb(11,0,128);
font-family:sans-serif;
font-size:14px;
line-height:22px"
target="_blank">Dutch</a><span
class=""
style="color:rgb(37,37,37);
font-family:sans-serif;
font-size:14px;
line-height:22px;
background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"> </span><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientist"
title="Scientist" class=""
style="text-decoration:none;
color:rgb(11,0,128);
font-family:sans-serif;
font-size:14px;
line-height:22px"
target="_blank">scientist</a><span
class=""
style="color:rgb(37,37,37);
font-family:sans-serif;
font-size:14px;
line-height:22px;
background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"> </span><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johannes_Diderik_van_der_Waals"
title="Johannes Diderik van
der Waals" class=""
style="text-decoration:none;
color:rgb(11,0,128);
font-family:sans-serif;
font-size:14px;
line-height:22px"
target="_blank">Johannes
Diderik van der Waals</a><span
class=""
style="color:rgb(37,37,37);
font-family:sans-serif;
font-size:14px;
line-height:22px;
background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">,
is the sum of the attractive
or repulsive forces between </span><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molecule"
title="Molecule" class=""
style="text-decoration:none;
color:rgb(11,0,128);
font-family:sans-serif;
font-size:14px;
line-height:22px"
target="_blank">molecules</a><span
class=""
style="color:rgb(37,37,37);
font-family:sans-serif;
font-size:14px;
line-height:22px;
background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"> (or
between parts of the same
molecule) other than those
due to </span><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Covalent_bond"
title="Covalent bond"
class=""
style="text-decoration:none;
color:rgb(11,0,128);
font-family:sans-serif;
font-size:14px;
line-height:22px"
target="_blank">covalent
bonds</a><span class=""
style="color:rgb(37,37,37);
font-family:sans-serif;
font-size:14px;
line-height:22px;
background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">,
or the </span><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrostatic_interaction"
title="Electrostatic
interaction"
class="mw-redirect"
style="text-decoration:none;
color:rgb(11,0,128);
font-family:sans-serif;
font-size:14px;
line-height:22px"
target="_blank">electrostatic
interaction</a><span
class=""
style="color:rgb(37,37,37);
font-family:sans-serif;
font-size:14px;
line-height:22px;
background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"> of </span><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ion"
title="Ion" class=""
style="text-decoration:none;
color:rgb(11,0,128);
font-family:sans-serif;
font-size:14px;
line-height:22px"
target="_blank">ions</a><span
class=""
style="color:rgb(37,37,37);
font-family:sans-serif;
font-size:14px;
line-height:22px;
background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"> with
one another, with neutral
molecules, or with charged
molecules.</span><sup
id="cite_ref-1"
class="reference"
style="line-height:1;
font-size:11px;
color:rgb(37,37,37);
font-family:sans-serif"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Van_der_Waals_force#cite_note-1"
class=""
style="text-decoration:none;
color:rgb(11,0,128);
white-space:nowrap"
target="_blank">[1]</a></sup><span
class=""
style="color:rgb(37,37,37);
font-family:sans-serif;
font-size:14px;
line-height:22px;
background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"> The
resulting van der Waals
forces can be attractive or
repulsive.</span><sup
id="cite_ref-Van_OssAbsolom1980_2-0"
class="reference"
style="line-height:1;
font-size:11px;
color:rgb(37,37,37);
font-family:sans-serif"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Van_der_Waals_force#cite_note-Van_OssAbsolom1980-2"
class=""
style="text-decoration:none;
color:rgb(11,0,128);
white-space:nowrap"
target="_blank">[2]</a></sup></div>
</div>
</blockquote>
Yes, my arrangement of charges of
the strong force causes as well a
combination of attractive and
repulsive forces and is doing the
same like in the van der Waals case.
That was my reason to refer to them.<br
class="">
<br class="">
Best regards<br class="">
Albrecht<br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">with best regards,</div>
<div class=""> Richard</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<br>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<br>
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