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Hi Al,<br>
<br>
I come back to the mail from you below. You are making a very
interesting statement. You say (with reference to Wikipedia ??) that
"The relative cc's for Strong are 1, e&m 1/137, ..." . - This
follows from my particle model, but I have never seen it in a
statement of main stream physics. <br>
<br>
It has a severe consequence: 1/137 is alpha, as we know. If we now
look to the definition of alpha and then to this relation in this
context, it means not only that alpha is the relation between the
electric force and the strong force, but in addition that (h*c) is
the field constant of the strong force (h = Planck's constant). That
is in full agreement with my model. But if you have followed our
discussion here, my understanding of the strong force resulting from
this is refused by almost anyone here.<br>
<br>
Again: Where did you find it in Wikipedia? I did not find it there,
only in other sources, but without references.<br>
<br>
Ciao, Albrecht<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 07.12.2015 um 12:00 schrieb
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:af.kracklauer@web.de">af.kracklauer@web.de</a>:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:trinity-f51350f0-a1b3-4318-880b-925d51fdda12-1449486053806@3capp-webde-bap37"
type="cite">
<div style="font-family: Verdana;font-size: 12.0px;">
<div>
<div>Hi John:</div>
<div> </div>
<div>None of my god-damn business, but I just can't hlep but
point out that a "coupling constant" characterizes an
interaction, not the participants eacn separatly. The
relative cc's for Strong are 1, e&m 1/137, weak 10⁻⁶,
gravity 10⁻³⁹. Even Wikiopedia thinks so!</div>
<div> </div>
<div>If a seond particle is the virtual image of the total
interaction with all noise (background) then, of course, it
cannot be pealed off the 1st particle (e or whatever).
Thus, logically, that nothing like a 2nd particle has benn
seen, does not exclude this possiblity. </div>
<div> </div>
<div>Lesson: maybe there are virtual popes (infalible
authoritites) in physics, but for sure there are nor that
have been any "seen" in the lab.!</div>
<div> </div>
<div>ciao, Al</div>
<div>
<div name="quote" style="margin:10px 5px 5px 10px; padding:
10px 0 10px 10px; border-left:2px solid #C3D9E5;
word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space;
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<div style="margin:0 0 10px 0;"><b>Gesendet:</b> Montag,
07. Dezember 2015 um 09:32 Uhr<br>
<b>Von:</b> "John Williamson"
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:John.Williamson@glasgow.ac.uk"><John.Williamson@glasgow.ac.uk></a><br>
<b>An:</b> "Albrecht Giese" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:phys@a-giese.de"><phys@a-giese.de></a>,
"Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion"
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"><general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org></a><br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:pete@leathergoth.com">"pete@leathergoth.com"</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:pete@leathergoth.com"><pete@leathergoth.com></a>, "Nick Bailey"
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:nick@bailey-family.org.uk"><nick@bailey-family.org.uk></a>, "Mark, Martin van
der" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:martin.van.der.mark@philips.com"><martin.van.der.mark@philips.com></a>, "David
Williamson" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:david.williamson@ed.ac.uk"><david.williamson@ed.ac.uk></a><br>
<b>Betreff:</b> Re: [General] Reply of comments from
what a model…</div>
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<div style="direction: ltr;font-family:
Tahoma;color: rgb(0,0,0);font-size: 10.0pt;">Dear
Albrecht,<br>
<br>
Let me help a little: this is off the top of my
head - but will give the right ballpark.<br>
<br>
The strong interaction (for nucleons) has a
coupling constant about a hundred times bigger
than EM. Interaction probabilities need 2
particles so this is about ten thousand times
(coupling constant squared) bigger than EM.<br>
<br>
This is not a "small effect". Believe me - if they
were there for leptons DESY would have noticed.
Even more so we at the EMC (European Muon
Collaboration) would have noticed if they were
there for muons. They are not.<br>
<br>
You can believe this if you like, but you are
wrong.<br>
<br>
Once again - if there were two bits inside the
electron, held together by whatever forces, we
would have seen this. We did not, so there are
not. End of story. The electron, whatever it is,
acts as one thing - at least up to energies up to
400 000 times its mass-energy.<br>
<br>
There IS something holding the electron charge
together though. These have been, for the last
century, designated the "Poincare stresses".
Feynmann talks about these in his lectures. As far
as I know, except for the description in my new
papers (the interaction between electric field and
p-vot) and the forces Martin and I have been
calculating with and talking about over the last
two decades, these remain otherwise mysterious. A
mystery that endured for most of a century. In my
theory everything is smooth and the whole object
is a single self-confining wave. Just one thing.<br>
<br>
Sorry if I gave the impression my talk at Mendel
was on the proton size. It was not. I did talk
about my model for quarks and the strong force
though, though that is not in the proceedings
paper (attached) which was on a possible reason
for the exclusion principle for fermions.<br>
<br>
There is something on this on the internet in the
talk I gave at CYBCOM, for which Nick Green
provided a link earlier.<br>
<br>
Regards, John W.
<div style="font-family: Times New Roman;color:
rgb(0,0,0);font-size: 16.0px;">
<hr>
<div id="divRpF849082" style="direction: ltr;"><font
size="2" color="#000000" face="Tahoma"><b>From:</b>
Albrecht Giese [<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:genmail@a-giese.de">genmail@a-giese.de</a>]<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, December 06, 2015 9:29
PM<br>
<b>To:</b> John Williamson; Nature of Light
and Particles - General Discussion<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Mark, Martin van der; Nick
Bailey; David Williamson;
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:pete@leathergoth.com">pete@leathergoth.com</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [General] Reply of
comments from what a model…</font><br>
</div>
<div> </div>
<div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Hello John,<br>
<br>
there seems indeed something not understood
about the reaction between nucleons (i.e.
quarks) and leptons. I have heard about the
differently measured size of a proton
depending on whether it is in contact with
electrons or muons. Thanks that you have
reminded me of this.<br>
<br>
The case of a muon in the atomic orbit, from
which a smaller size of the proton follows,
can be at least qualitatively deduced from
the assumption of a strong force in leptons
as given in my model. I should calculate
this quantitatively but need some extra time
to do it. Have it on schedule.<br>
<br>
There is another influence of the assumption
of strong force in electrons in my model. I
have shown in my talk in San Diego that the
simultaneous influence of the electrical
force and the strong force explains
classically the Landé factor.<br>
<br>
You write about a talk which you have given
about the topic of the proton's size at
MEDEL2012 and about proceedings of it. Could
you do me the favor and give me a link or
some other connection to your contribution?<br>
<br>
Regards<br>
Albrecht<br>
<br>
<br>
Am 01.12.2015 um 01:35 schrieb John
Williamson:</div>
<blockquote>
<div class="moz-forward-container">Hello
Albrecht,
<div style="direction: ltr;font-family:
Tahoma;color: rgb(0,0,0);font-size:
10.0pt;"><br>
Good for you. I knew about this
(peripherally) - but would have been
worried if there had been a direct
measurement of leptons feeling the
"strong force" - which this is not.<br>
<br>
There are a set of these "anomalies".
The most important (and oldest to my
knowledge) is that measured in spin-spin
scattering at the ZGS (O'Fallon et al
1977). There is another (the EMC effect)
with my own name on the papers (I am not
central to this work and am one of
dozens of "authors" on the papers: my
role was just to write some of the code
for electromagnetic (QED) shower
simulation and for parts of a "QCD"
monte-carlo used in some of the
analysis).<br>
<br>
There are more recent experiments where
the proton "size" differs (its
cross-section - that is the inter-action
rate) depending on which lepton you
observe it with.<br>
<br>
These are all, in my view, down to a
lack of understanding as to what the
"strong" force is. There are no actual
calculations for this because the only
theory we have (QCD) is
non-perturbative. I will translate (for
mothers) "non perturbative" is shorthand
for - one cannot calculate anything with
it using any known techniques. Yes -
that bad.<br>
<br>
The underlying anomlies all come fron
the proper nature of the strong force.
THis was part of my invited (keynote)
talk at MENDEL2012 and there is
something on this in the proceedings.<br>
<br>
Regards, John.
<div style="font-family: Times New
Roman;color: rgb(0,0,0);font-size:
16.0px;">
<hr>
<div id="divRpF506109"
style="direction: ltr;"><font
size="2" color="#000000"
face="Tahoma"><b>From:</b>
Albrecht Giese [<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="genmail@a-giese.de"
target="_parent"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:genmail@a-giese.de">genmail@a-giese.de</a></a>]<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, November 30,
2015 8:19 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> John Williamson; Nature
of Light and Particles - General
Discussion<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [General]
Reply of comments from what a
model…</font><br>
</div>
<div>Hello John,<br>
<br>
it took me some time to find
references, sorry. And I could not
find the original paper of DESY
about it, but a magazine.<br>
<br>
The indication of the strong force
to leptons is a more indirect
conclusion. In 1997 two teams at the
HERA storage ring at DESY found an
unexpected excess of events in
quark-positron interactions. These
events were unexpected as the
Standard Model excludes an
interaction of quarks with leptons
on the basis of the strong force. It
was then made the ad hoc assumption
that an unknown particle may exist
with name leptoquark. Such particle
is not excluded by the Standard
Model, and it is assumed to react
with leptons and with quarks. The
following search for leptoquarks at
DESY and at other labs was without
success. So the direct interaction
between quarks and leptons by the
strong force will remain as a
solution.<br>
<br>
I can give the following references
for this:<br>
1.) Scientific American, March 24,
1997 about the detection of
additional events<br>
2.) <small> </small>"Search for
contact interactions, large extra
dimensions and finite quark radius
in <i>ep </i>collisions at HERA",
ZEUS Collaboration, Physics Letters
B 591 (2004) 23-41 as an example
for the search for leptoquarks.<br>
<br>
But I would like to emphasize again
that the assumption for the strong
force in e.g. the electron makes it
possible to deduce the inertial mass
of this particle (as also of
others). I do not know any other
approach which provides an origin of
inertia deduced from basics.<br>
<br>
Regards<br>
Albrecht<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am
27.11.2015 um 03:46 schrieb John
Williamson:</div>
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<div style="direction:
ltr;font-family: Tahoma;color:
rgb(0,0,0);font-size: 10.0pt;">Hello
Albrecht,<br>
<br>
So the strong force has been
observed to act on electrons at
DESY? Very interesting. Do you
have a reference for that?<br>
<br>
Regards, John.
<div style="font-family: Times
New Roman;color:
rgb(0,0,0);font-size: 16.0px;">
<hr>
<div id="divRpF304961"
style="direction: ltr;"><font
size="2" color="#000000"
face="Tahoma"><b>From:</b>
General [<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="general-bounces+john.williamson=glasgow.ac.uk@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"
target="_parent"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:general-bounces+john.williamson=glasgow.ac.uk@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org">general-bounces+john.williamson=glasgow.ac.uk@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a></a>]
on behalf of Albrecht
Giese [<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="genmail@a-giese.de" target="_parent"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:genmail@a-giese.de">genmail@a-giese.de</a></a>]<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday,
November 26, 2015 4:53 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Richard
Gauthier<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Nature of Light
and Particles - General
Discussion<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re:
[General] Reply of
comments from what a
model…</font><br>
</div>
<div>Hallo Richard,<br>
<br>
thank you for your
alternative proposal.
Unfortunately there are some
points of misunderstanding
with respect to my model.
And also some other physical
arguments I like to point to
- in your text.<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am
23.11.2015 um 19:43
schrieb Richard Gauthier:</div>
<blockquote>Hello Albrecht,
<div>
<div> I’m glad that
you say that
developing a
2-particle model of
the electron was not
your main interest. I
think it will be
useful to see what
parts of your model
may be saved, and what
parts may have to go,
to get a working model
in progress for the
electron which most of
us here might agree
on. First, since there
is no generally
accepted evidence of a
nuclear strong force
relation to electrons,
let’s drop that
proposal for holding
your 2 circulating
charged massless
particles in orbit, at
least for now.</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
Here I object. 1) The strong
force in the electron was
seen at DESY experiments in
the 1990s. 2) Without
referring to the strong
force, the calculation of
the mass of the electron has
incorrect results by a
factor of several hundred.
This was found out by
physicists in the 1940s,
e.g. by Helmut Hönl. (I can
send you his paper if you
are interested, however in
German.)
<blockquote>
<div>
<div>Second, since
there’s no evidence
for a two-particle
structure of the
electron from any
scattering or other
experiments, let’s
also consider dropping
that proposal for now.
Your insistence that a
2-particle model is
required for
conservation of
momentum at the
sub-electron level
does not seem
sufficient to accept
this part of your
2-particle model. We
don’t even know
experimentally that
conservation of
momentum exists at the
sub-electron level, do
we? Just an article of
faith?</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
This may be a point of
personal judgement, but in
my view the conservation if
momentum is a fundamental
law in physics, maybe the
most fundamental law. It
follows logically from the
symmetry of space (refer to
Emmy Noether, who has set
some logical basics for QM).
<blockquote>
<div>
<div> </div>
<div> So what is left
of your model? You
claim that your two
particles are massless
and travel at light
speed. But you don’t
say that they are also
without energy, do
you? If there are two
massless particles,
they will still each
have to have 0.511/2
MeV of energy if the
electron’s total
resting energy 0.511
MeV is divided equally
between them.</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
I have explained this in a
former comment. The two
"basic" particles do not
have any energy by
themselves. The energy is
caused by the motion of the
basic particles in the
situation of a bind. Mass is
anyway a dynamic property of
matter as it is even seen by
present main stream physics.
<blockquote>
<div>
<div>One kind of
particle that has no
rest mass but has
energy and travels at
light speed is a
photon.</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
This assumption is not true
as explained above.
<blockquote>
<div>
<div>(Let’s forget about
gluons here for now
since there is no
accepted evidence for
a strong nuclear force
on electrons). So each
of your two particles
(if there are still
two for some other
reason besides
conservation of
momentum, and a need
for an attractive
force between them to
overcome their
electric repulsion)
could be a charged
photon (circulating
charge is necessary to
get a magnetic moment
for the model) with
energy 0.511/2 MeV,
which has energy but
no rest mass. OK.</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
Not true!
<blockquote>
<div>
<div>But each of these
two charged photons,
each of energy 0.511/2
MeV = mc^2/2 will have
a wavelength of 2
Compton wavelengths =
2 h/mc . If 1
wavelength of each
photon is turned into
a single closed loop,
the each loop would
have a radius
2hbar/mc, which is
twice the radius
hbar/mc of your
proposed electron
model. To make each of
these photons move
circularly in a way
that each of their
wavelengths gives a
radius of hbar/mc as
in your model, each
photon would have to
move in a double loop.
So there will be two
photons each of energy
0.511/2 moving in a
double loop in this
model. This is getting
complicated.</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
The Compton wavelength has a
different origin. It comes
from scattering of photons
at an electron (example).
The Compton wavelength is
then the maximum change of
the wavelength of the photon
in such process. - This
wavelength is in this way
not any geometrical
extension of the electron.
Yes, we find this value in
some calculations, but we
should be cautious to use it
for the determination of
dimension.
<blockquote>
<div>
<div> </div>
<div> Let’s drop one
of the two photons for
simplicity (Occam’s
razor put to good use)
so that the other
photon will have the
full electron energy
0.511 MeV .</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
What is the origin of this
energy in the photon? And
which mechanism causes
actually the energy of this
photon? A photon can in
general have any energy,
doesn't it?
<blockquote>
<div>
<div>This photon will
now have a wavelength
1 Compton wavelength.
If this 1 Compton
wavelength charged
photon moves in a
single loop it will
create an electron
with magnetic moment 1
Bohr magneton and a
spin of 1 hbar. That’s
good for the
experimental magnetic
moment of the electron
(slightly more than 1
Bohr magneton) but
bad for its
experimental spin
(which you tried to
reduce to 1/2 hbar in
your model by a
delayed force
argument). If the
photon moves in a
double loop it will be
good for the spin
(which now is exactly
1/2 hbar) but bad for
the magnetic moment
(now 1/2 Bohr
magneton).</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
Why does the double loop
reduce the spin? Why the
Bohr magneton? The magnetic
moment depends on the area
in the loop. How large is
this area in this case?<br>
<br>
The magnetic moment is
larger than the Bohr
magneton. In my model this
is the contribution of the
(small) electrical charges
in view of the (large)
strong charges.<br>
<br>
And which mechanism causes
the double loop? It cannot
come from itself. A circuit
is a simple structure which
does not need many
influences. A double loop is
more and needs a cause.
<blockquote>
<div>
<div>So there’s still a
problem with the
model’s magnetic
moment. But this
double-looping charged
photon model now has
gained the
zitterbewegung
frequency of the Dirac
electron which is
desirable for an
electron model which
hopes to model the
Dirac electron. And it
also has 720 degree
symmetry which the
Dirac electron has
(while your original
2-particle model has a
rotational symmetry of
180 degrees, since
each particle would
take the place of the
other after a
half-circle rotation).</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
In my model the
zitterbewegung frequency is
the circulation frequency of
the basic particles. The
rotational symmetry is not
180 but 360 degrees as the
strong field of the basic
particles is not equal, but
one basic particle changes
the other one by electrical
influence. This works
analogue to the case of the
van der Waals force.
<blockquote>
<div>
<div> </div>
<div> What do you
think of this new
model so far?</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
Did I explain it
sufficiently?
<blockquote>
<div>
<div> </div>
<div> Richard</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
Albrecht
<blockquote>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote>
<div>On Nov 22,
2015, at 9:43
AM, Albrecht
Giese <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="genmail@a-giese.de"
target="_parent"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:genmail@a-giese.de">genmail@a-giese.de</a></a>>
wrote:</div>
<div>
<div>Hello
Richard,<br>
<br>
I never have
persistently
tried to
develop a
2-particle
model. What I
have
persistently
tried was to
find a good
explanation
for
relativistic
dilation. And
there I found
a solution
which has
satisfied me.
All the rest
including the
2 particles in
my model where
logical
consequences
where I did
not see
alternatives.
If there
should be a
model which is
an alternative
in one or the
other aspect,
I will be
happy to see
it.<br>
<div
class="moz-cite-prefix">Am
22.11.2015 um
00:13 schrieb
Richard
Gauthier:</div>
<blockquote>Hello
Albrecht,
<div>
<div> I
admire your
persistence in
trying to save
your doomed
(in my
opinion)
2-particle
electron
model.</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
Why 2
particles in
the model? I
say it again:<br>
<br>
1) to maintain
the
conservation
of momentum in
the view of
oscillations<br>
2) to have a
mechanism for
inertia (which
has very
precise
results,
otherwise
non-existent
in present
physics)<br>
<br>
I will be
happy to see
alternatives
for both
points. Up to
now I have not
seen any.
<blockquote>
<div>
<div>Do you
understand how
unreasonable
and irrational
it appears for
you to write:
"Then I had
to determine
the field
constant S
which is
normally
provided by
experiments.
But quantum
mechanics is
so unprecise
regarding the
numeric value
of the strong
force that
there is no
number
available in
the data
tables. Here I
found that I
could use the
Bohr magneton
to determine
the constant.
(Which turned
out to be S =
hbar*c, merely
a constant).”
? </div>
</div>
</blockquote>
I have once
asked one of
the leading
theorists at
DESY for a
better
quantitative
explanation or
determination
of the strong
force. His
answer: Sorry,
the strong
force is not
good enough
understood so
that I cannot
give you
better
information.
<blockquote>
<div>
<div>How could
the number S
that you
could not find
in “unprecise”
tables about
the strong
force possibly
be the same
number that
can be found
precisely from
the electron’s
Bohr magneton
ehbar/2m and
which you
claim is S =
hbar*c ? This
is an
unbelievable,
desperate
stretch of
imagination
and "grasping
at straws", in
my opinion.</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
When I have
realized that
my model
deduces the
Bohr magneton,
I have used
the
measurements
available in
that context
to determine
my field
constant. (I
could also go
the other way:
I can use the
Planck /
Einstein
relation E = h
* f and the
Einstein-relation
E = m*c<sup>2</sup>
to determine
the constant S
from the
internal
frequency in
my model. Same
result. But I
like the other
way better.
BTW: Do you
know any other
model which
deduces these
relations
rather than
using them as
given?)
<blockquote>
<div>
<div> </div>
<div>Here is
the meaning of
“grasping at
straws” from <a
moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/grasp+at+straws"
target="_blank"><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/grasp+at+straws">http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/grasp+at+straws</a></a> :</div>
<h2
style="display:
inline-block;color:
rgb(64,64,64);font-family:
Arial ,
Helvetica ,
sans-serif;">grasp
at straws</h2>
<div><span
class="hvr"
style="color:
rgb(64,64,64);font-family:
Arial ,
Helvetica ,
sans-serif;font-size:
13.0px;line-height:
19.5px;">Also,</span><span
style="color:
rgb(64,64,64);font-family:
Arial ,
Helvetica ,
sans-serif;font-size:
13.0px;line-height:
19.5px;"> </span><b
style="color:
rgb(64,64,64);font-family:
Arial ,
Helvetica ,
sans-serif;font-size:
13.0px;line-height:
19.5px;"><span
class="hvr">clutch</span> at <span
class="hvr">straws</span></b><span
style="color:
rgb(64,64,64);font-family:
Arial ,
Helvetica ,
sans-serif;font-size:
13.0px;line-height:
19.5px;">.</span><span
style="color:
rgb(64,64,64);font-family:
Arial ,
Helvetica ,
sans-serif;font-size:
13.0px;line-height:
19.5px;"> </span><span
class="hvr"
style="color:
rgb(64,64,64);font-family:
Arial ,
Helvetica ,
sans-serif;font-size:
13.0px;line-height:
19.5px;">Make</span><span
style="color:
rgb(64,64,64);font-family:
Arial ,
Helvetica ,
sans-serif;font-size:
13.0px;line-height:
19.5px;"> </span><span
style="color:
rgb(64,64,64);font-family:
Arial ,
Helvetica ,
sans-serif;font-size:
13.0px;line-height:
19.5px;">a</span><span
style="color:
rgb(64,64,64);font-family:
Arial ,
Helvetica ,
sans-serif;font-size:
13.0px;line-height:
19.5px;"> </span><span
class="hvr"
style="color:
rgb(64,64,64);font-family:
Arial ,
Helvetica ,
sans-serif;font-size:
13.0px;line-height:
19.5px;">desperate</span><span
style="color:
rgb(64,64,64);font-family:
Arial ,
Helvetica ,
sans-serif;font-size:
13.0px;line-height:
19.5px;"> </span><span
class="hvr"
style="color:
rgb(64,64,64);font-family:
Arial ,
Helvetica ,
sans-serif;font-size:
13.0px;line-height:
19.5px;">attempt</span><span
style="color:
rgb(64,64,64);font-family:
Arial ,
Helvetica ,
sans-serif;font-size:
13.0px;line-height:
19.5px;"> </span><span
style="color:
rgb(64,64,64);font-family:
Arial ,
Helvetica ,
sans-serif;font-size:
13.0px;line-height:
19.5px;">at</span><span
style="color:
rgb(64,64,64);font-family:
Arial ,
Helvetica ,
sans-serif;font-size:
13.0px;line-height:
19.5px;"> </span><span
class="hvr"
style="color:
rgb(64,64,64);font-family:
Arial ,
Helvetica ,
sans-serif;font-size:
13.0px;line-height:
19.5px;">saving</span><span
style="color:
rgb(64,64,64);font-family:
Arial ,
Helvetica ,
sans-serif;font-size:
13.0px;line-height:
19.5px;"> </span><span
class="hvr"
style="color:
rgb(64,64,64);font-family:
Arial ,
Helvetica ,
sans-serif;font-size:
13.0px;line-height:
19.5px;">oneself.</span><span
style="color:
rgb(64,64,64);font-family:
Arial ,
Helvetica ,
sans-serif;font-size:
13.0px;line-height:
19.5px;"> </span><span
class="hvr"
style="color:
rgb(64,64,64);font-family:
Arial ,
Helvetica ,
sans-serif;font-size:
13.0px;line-height:
19.5px;">For</span><span
style="color:
rgb(64,64,64);font-family:
Arial ,
Helvetica ,
sans-serif;font-size:
13.0px;line-height:
19.5px;"> </span><span
class="hvr"
style="color:
rgb(64,64,64);font-family:
Arial ,
Helvetica ,
sans-serif;font-size:
13.0px;line-height:
19.5px;">example,</span><span
style="color:
rgb(64,64,64);font-family:
Arial ,
Helvetica ,
sans-serif;font-size:
13.0px;line-height:
19.5px;"> </span><i
style="color:
rgb(64,64,64);font-family:
Arial ,
Helvetica ,
sans-serif;font-size:
13.0px;line-height:
19.5px;">He <span
class="hvr">had </span><span
class="hvr">lost</span> <span
class="hvr">the</span> <span
class="hvr">argument,</span> <span
class="hvr">but</span> he <span
class="hvr">kept</span> <span
class="hvr">grasping</span> at <span
class="hvr">straws,</span> <span
class="hvr">naming</span> <span
class="hvr">numerous</span> <span
class="hvr">previous</span> <span
class="hvr">cases</span> <span
class="hvr">that </span><span
class="hvr">had</span> <span
class="hvr">little</span> to do <span
class="hvr">with</span> <span
class="hvr">this</span> <span
class="hvr">one</span></i><span
style="color:
rgb(64,64,64);font-family:
Arial ,
Helvetica ,
sans-serif;font-size:
13.0px;line-height:
19.5px;">.</span><span
style="color:
rgb(64,64,64);font-family:
Arial ,
Helvetica ,
sans-serif;font-size:
13.0px;line-height:
19.5px;"> </span><span
class="hvr"
style="color:
rgb(64,64,64);font-family:
Arial ,
Helvetica ,
sans-serif;font-size:
13.0px;line-height:
19.5px;">This</span><span
style="color:
rgb(64,64,64);font-family:
Arial ,
Helvetica ,
sans-serif;font-size:
13.0px;line-height:
19.5px;"> </span><span
class="hvr"
style="color:
rgb(64,64,64);font-family:
Arial ,
Helvetica ,
sans-serif;font-size:
13.0px;line-height:
19.5px;">metaphoric</span><span
style="color:
rgb(64,64,64);font-family:
Arial ,
Helvetica ,
sans-serif;font-size:
13.0px;line-height:
19.5px;"> </span><span
class="hvr"
style="color:
rgb(64,64,64);font-family:
Arial ,
Helvetica ,
sans-serif;font-size:
13.0px;line-height:
19.5px;">expression</span><span
style="color:
rgb(64,64,64);font-family:
Arial ,
Helvetica ,
sans-serif;font-size:
13.0px;line-height:
19.5px;"> </span><span
class="hvr"
style="color:
rgb(64,64,64);font-family:
Arial ,
Helvetica ,
sans-serif;font-size:
13.0px;line-height:
19.5px;">alludes</span><span
style="color:
rgb(64,64,64);font-family:
Arial ,
Helvetica ,
sans-serif;font-size:
13.0px;line-height:
19.5px;"> </span><span
style="color:
rgb(64,64,64);font-family:
Arial ,
Helvetica ,
sans-serif;font-size:
13.0px;line-height:
19.5px;">to</span><span
style="color:
rgb(64,64,64);font-family:
Arial ,
Helvetica ,
sans-serif;font-size:
13.0px;line-height:
19.5px;"> </span><span
style="color:
rgb(64,64,64);font-family:
Arial ,
Helvetica ,
sans-serif;font-size:
13.0px;line-height:
19.5px;">a</span><span
style="color:
rgb(64,64,64);font-family:
Arial ,
Helvetica ,
sans-serif;font-size:
13.0px;line-height:
19.5px;"> </span><span
class="hvr"
style="color:
rgb(64,64,64);font-family:
Arial ,
Helvetica ,
sans-serif;font-size:
13.0px;line-height:
19.5px;">drowning</span><span
style="color:
rgb(64,64,64);font-family:
Arial ,
Helvetica ,
sans-serif;font-size:
13.0px;line-height:
19.5px;"> </span><span
class="hvr"
style="color:
rgb(64,64,64);font-family:
Arial ,
Helvetica ,
sans-serif;font-size:
13.0px;line-height:
19.5px;">person </span><span
class="hvr"
style="color:
rgb(64,64,64);font-family:
Arial ,
Helvetica ,
sans-serif;font-size:
13.0px;line-height:
19.5px;">trying</span><span
style="color:
rgb(64,64,64);font-family:
Arial ,
Helvetica ,
sans-serif;font-size:
13.0px;line-height:
19.5px;"> </span><span
style="color:
rgb(64,64,64);font-family:
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Helvetica ,
sans-serif;font-size:
13.0px;line-height:
19.5px;">to</span><span
style="color:
rgb(64,64,64);font-family:
Arial ,
Helvetica ,
sans-serif;font-size:
13.0px;line-height:
19.5px;"> </span><span
class="hvr"
style="color:
rgb(64,64,64);font-family:
Arial ,
Helvetica ,
sans-serif;font-size:
13.0px;line-height:
19.5px;">save</span><span
style="color:
rgb(64,64,64);font-family:
Arial ,
Helvetica ,
sans-serif;font-size:
13.0px;line-height:
19.5px;"> </span><span
class="hvr"
style="color:
rgb(64,64,64);font-family:
Arial ,
Helvetica ,
sans-serif;font-size:
13.0px;line-height:
19.5px;">himself</span><span
style="color:
rgb(64,64,64);font-family:
Arial ,
Helvetica ,
sans-serif;font-size:
13.0px;line-height:
19.5px;"> </span><span
style="color:
rgb(64,64,64);font-family:
Arial ,
Helvetica ,
sans-serif;font-size:
13.0px;line-height:
19.5px;">by</span><span
style="color:
rgb(64,64,64);font-family:
Arial ,
Helvetica ,
sans-serif;font-size:
13.0px;line-height:
19.5px;"> </span><span
class="hvr"
style="color:
rgb(64,64,64);font-family:
Arial ,
Helvetica ,
sans-serif;font-size:
13.0px;line-height:
19.5px;">grabbing</span><span
style="color:
rgb(64,64,64);font-family:
Arial ,
Helvetica ,
sans-serif;font-size:
13.0px;line-height:
19.5px;"> </span><span
style="color:
rgb(64,64,64);font-family:
Arial ,
Helvetica ,
sans-serif;font-size:
13.0px;line-height:
19.5px;">at</span><span
style="color:
rgb(64,64,64);font-family:
Arial ,
Helvetica ,
sans-serif;font-size:
13.0px;line-height:
19.5px;"> </span><span
class="hvr"
style="color:
rgb(64,64,64);font-family:
Arial ,
Helvetica ,
sans-serif;font-size:
13.0px;line-height:
19.5px;">flimsy</span><span
style="color:
rgb(64,64,64);font-family:
Arial ,
Helvetica ,
sans-serif;font-size:
13.0px;line-height:
19.5px;"> </span><span
class="hvr"
style="color:
rgb(64,64,64);font-family:
Arial ,
Helvetica ,
sans-serif;font-size:
13.0px;line-height:
19.5px;">reeds.</span><span
style="color:
rgb(64,64,64);font-family:
Arial ,
Helvetica ,
sans-serif;font-size:
13.0px;line-height:
19.5px;"> </span><span
class="hvr"
style="color:
rgb(64,64,64);font-family:
Arial ,
Helvetica ,
sans-serif;font-size:
13.0px;line-height:
19.5px;">First</span><span
style="color:
rgb(64,64,64);font-family:
Arial ,
Helvetica ,
sans-serif;font-size:
13.0px;line-height:
19.5px;"> </span><span
class="hvr"
style="color:
rgb(64,64,64);font-family:
Arial ,
Helvetica ,
sans-serif;font-size:
13.0px;line-height:
19.5px;">recorded</span><span
style="color:
rgb(64,64,64);font-family:
Arial ,
Helvetica ,
sans-serif;font-size:
13.0px;line-height:
19.5px;"> </span><span
style="color:
rgb(64,64,64);font-family:
Arial ,
Helvetica ,
sans-serif;font-size:
13.0px;line-height:
19.5px;">in</span><span
style="color:
rgb(64,64,64);font-family:
Arial ,
Helvetica ,
sans-serif;font-size:
13.0px;line-height:
19.5px;"> </span><span
class="hvr"
style="color:
rgb(64,64,64);font-family:
Arial ,
Helvetica ,
sans-serif;font-size:
13.0px;line-height:
19.5px;">1534,</span><span
style="color:
rgb(64,64,64);font-family:
Arial ,
Helvetica ,
sans-serif;font-size:
13.0px;line-height:
19.5px;"> </span><span
class="hvr"
style="color:
rgb(64,64,64);font-family:
Arial ,
Helvetica ,
sans-serif;font-size:
13.0px;line-height:
19.5px;">the</span><span
style="color:
rgb(64,64,64);font-family:
Arial ,
Helvetica ,
sans-serif;font-size:
13.0px;line-height:
19.5px;"> </span><span
class="hvr"
style="color:
rgb(64,64,64);font-family:
Arial ,
Helvetica ,
sans-serif;font-size:
13.0px;line-height:
19.5px;">term</span><span
style="color:
rgb(64,64,64);font-family:
Arial ,
Helvetica ,
sans-serif;font-size:
13.0px;line-height:
19.5px;"> </span><span
class="hvr"
style="color:
rgb(64,64,64);font-family:
Arial ,
Helvetica ,
sans-serif;font-size:
13.0px;line-height:
19.5px;">was </span><span
class="hvr"
style="color:
rgb(64,64,64);font-family:
Arial ,
Helvetica ,
sans-serif;font-size:
13.0px;line-height:
19.5px;">used</span><span
style="color:
rgb(64,64,64);font-family:
Arial ,
Helvetica ,
sans-serif;font-size:
13.0px;line-height:
19.5px;"> </span><span
class="hvr"
style="color:
rgb(64,64,64);font-family:
Arial ,
Helvetica ,
sans-serif;font-size:
13.0px;line-height:
19.5px;">figuratively</span><span
style="color:
rgb(64,64,64);font-family:
Arial ,
Helvetica ,
sans-serif;font-size:
13.0px;line-height:
19.5px;"> </span><span
style="color:
rgb(64,64,64);font-family:
Arial ,
Helvetica ,
sans-serif;font-size:
13.0px;line-height:
19.5px;">by</span><span
style="color:
rgb(64,64,64);font-family:
Arial ,
Helvetica ,
sans-serif;font-size:
13.0px;line-height:
19.5px;"> </span><span
class="hvr"
style="color:
rgb(64,64,64);font-family:
Arial ,
Helvetica ,
sans-serif;font-size:
13.0px;line-height:
19.5px;">the</span><span
style="color:
rgb(64,64,64);font-family:
Arial ,
Helvetica ,
sans-serif;font-size:
13.0px;line-height:
19.5px;"> </span><span
class="hvr"
style="color:
rgb(64,64,64);font-family:
Arial ,
Helvetica ,
sans-serif;font-size:
13.0px;line-height:
19.5px;">late</span><span
style="color:
rgb(64,64,64);font-family:
Arial ,
Helvetica ,
sans-serif;font-size:
13.0px;line-height:
19.5px;"> </span><span
class="hvr"
style="color:
rgb(64,64,64);font-family:
Arial ,
Helvetica ,
sans-serif;font-size:
13.0px;line-height:
19.5px;">1600s.</span> </div>
<div> </div>
<div>I am not
at all opposed
to using
desperate
measures to
find or save a
hypothesis
that is very
important to
you. Max
Planck
described his
efforts to fit
the black body
radiation
equation using
quantized
energies of
hypothetical
oscillators as
an "act of
desperation”.
So you are of
course free to
keep
desperately
trying to save
your
2-particle
electron
hypothesis. I
personally
think that
your many
talents in
physics could
be better
spent in other
ways, for
example in
revising your
electron model
to make it
more
consistent
with
experimental
facts.</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
Do you know
any other
electron model
which is so
much
consistent
with
experimental
facts (e.g.
size and mass)
as this one
(without
needing the
usual
mystifications
of quantum
mechanics)?
<blockquote>
<div>
<div> </div>
<div> By the
way, van der
Waals forces
do not "bind
atoms to form
a molecule".
They are
attractive or
repulsive
forces between
molecules or
between parts
of a molecule.
According to
Wikipedia:</div>
<div> </div>
<div>" <span
style="color:
rgb(37,37,37);font-family:
sans-serif;font-size:
14.0px;line-height:
22.0px;background-color:
rgb(255,255,255);">the </span><b style="color:
rgb(37,37,37);font-family:
sans-serif;font-size:
14.0px;line-height:
22.0px;">van
der Waals
forces</b><span
style="color:
rgb(37,37,37);font-family:
sans-serif;font-size:
14.0px;line-height:
22.0px;background-color:
rgb(255,255,255);"> (or </span><b style="color:
rgb(37,37,37);font-family:
sans-serif;font-size:
14.0px;line-height:
22.0px;">van
der Waals'
interaction</b><span
style="color:
rgb(37,37,37);font-family:
sans-serif;font-size:
14.0px;line-height:
22.0px;background-color:
rgb(255,255,255);">), named after </span><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netherlands"
style="text-decoration:
none;color:
rgb(11,0,128);font-family:
sans-serif;font-size:
14.0px;line-height:
22.0px;"
target="_blank"
title="Netherlands">Dutch</a><span style="color:
rgb(37,37,37);font-family:
sans-serif;font-size:
14.0px;line-height:
22.0px;background-color:
rgb(255,255,255);"> </span><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientist"
style="text-decoration:
none;color:
rgb(11,0,128);font-family:
sans-serif;font-size:
14.0px;line-height:
22.0px;"
target="_blank"
title="Scientist">scientist</a><span style="color:
rgb(37,37,37);font-family:
sans-serif;font-size:
14.0px;line-height:
22.0px;background-color:
rgb(255,255,255);"> </span><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johannes_Diderik_van_der_Waals"
style="text-decoration:
none;color:
rgb(11,0,128);font-family:
sans-serif;font-size:
14.0px;line-height:
22.0px;"
target="_blank"
title="Johannes
Diderik van
der Waals">Johannes
Diderik van
der Waals</a><span
style="color:
rgb(37,37,37);font-family:
sans-serif;font-size:
14.0px;line-height:
22.0px;background-color:
rgb(255,255,255);">, is the sum of the attractive or repulsive forces
between </span><a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molecule"
style="text-decoration:
none;color:
rgb(11,0,128);font-family:
sans-serif;font-size:
14.0px;line-height:
22.0px;"
target="_blank"
title="Molecule">molecules</a><span style="color:
rgb(37,37,37);font-family:
sans-serif;font-size:
14.0px;line-height:
22.0px;background-color:
rgb(255,255,255);"> (or between parts of the same molecule) other than
those due to </span><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Covalent_bond"
style="text-decoration:
none;color:
rgb(11,0,128);font-family:
sans-serif;font-size:
14.0px;line-height:
22.0px;"
target="_blank"
title="Covalent
bond">covalent
bonds</a><span
style="color:
rgb(37,37,37);font-family:
sans-serif;font-size:
14.0px;line-height:
22.0px;background-color:
rgb(255,255,255);">, or the </span><a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="mw-redirect"
href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrostatic_interaction"
style="text-decoration:
none;color:
rgb(11,0,128);font-family:
sans-serif;font-size:
14.0px;line-height:
22.0px;"
target="_blank"
title="Electrostatic
interaction">electrostatic
interaction</a><span
style="color:
rgb(37,37,37);font-family:
sans-serif;font-size:
14.0px;line-height:
22.0px;background-color:
rgb(255,255,255);"> of </span><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ion"
style="text-decoration:
none;color:
rgb(11,0,128);font-family:
sans-serif;font-size:
14.0px;line-height:
22.0px;"
target="_blank"
title="Ion">ions</a><span
style="color:
rgb(37,37,37);font-family:
sans-serif;font-size:
14.0px;line-height:
22.0px;background-color:
rgb(255,255,255);"> with one another, with neutral molecules, or with
charged
molecules.</span><sup
class="reference" id="cite_ref-1" style="line-height: 1;font-size:
11.0px;color:
rgb(37,37,37);font-family:
sans-serif;"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Van_der_Waals_force#cite_note-1"
style="text-decoration:
none;color:
rgb(11,0,128);white-space:
nowrap;"
target="_blank">[1]</a></sup><span
style="color:
rgb(37,37,37);font-family:
sans-serif;font-size:
14.0px;line-height:
22.0px;background-color:
rgb(255,255,255);"> The resulting van der Waals forces can be attractive
or repulsive.</span><sup
class="reference" id="cite_ref-Van_OssAbsolom1980_2-0"
style="line-height:
1;font-size:
11.0px;color:
rgb(37,37,37);font-family:
sans-serif;"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Van_der_Waals_force#cite_note-Van_OssAbsolom1980-2"
style="text-decoration:
none;color:
rgb(11,0,128);white-space:
nowrap;"
target="_blank">[2]</a></sup></div>
</div>
</blockquote>
Yes, my
arrangement of
charges of the
strong force
causes as well
a combination
of attractive
and repulsive
forces and is
doing the same
like in the
van der Waals
case. That was
my reason to
refer to them.<br>
<br>
Best regards<br>
Albrecht
<blockquote>
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regards,</div>
<div>
Richard</div>
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