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Hi John,<br>
<br>
who should have a 4-momentum? Not clear to me.<br>
<br>
Albrecht<br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 10.12.2015 um 08:40 schrieb John
Williamson:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:7DC02B7BFEAA614DA666120C8A0260C914725EF4@CMS08-01.campus.gla.ac.uk"
type="cite">
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charset=windows-1252">
<div style="direction: ltr;font-family: Tahoma;color:
#000000;font-size: 10pt;">Hi Albrecht,<br>
<br>
Yes, did he not say that it would only be in agreement if there
was no 4-momentum in them? That they have zero energy-momentum
is just the same as saying that they are, effectively, not there
at all.<br>
<br>
Cheers, John.<br>
<div style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #000000;
font-size: 16px">
<hr tabindex="-1">
<div style="direction: ltr;" id="divRpF781567"><font size="2"
color="#000000" face="Tahoma"><b>From:</b> Albrecht Giese
[<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:genmail@a-giese.de">genmail@a-giese.de</a>]<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, December 09, 2015 9:41 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> John Williamson; Nature of Light and Particles
- General Discussion<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Mark, Martin van der; Nick Bailey; David
Williamson; <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:pete@leathergoth.com">pete@leathergoth.com</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [General] Reply of comments from what
a model…<br>
</font><br>
</div>
<div>Dear John,<br>
<br>
<font color="#003300">thank you, and some comments from my
part below in the text.</font><br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 07.12.2015 um 09:32 schrieb
John Williamson:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div style="direction:ltr; font-family:Tahoma;
color:#000000; font-size:10pt">
<div style="direction:ltr; font-family:Tahoma;
color:#000000; font-size:10pt">Dear Albrecht,<br>
<br>
Let me help a little: this is off the top of my head -
but will give the right ballpark.<br>
<br>
The strong interaction (for nucleons) has a coupling
constant about a hundred times bigger than EM.
Interaction probabilities need 2 particles so this is
about ten thousand times (coupling constant squared)
bigger than EM.
<br>
<br>
This is not a "small effect". Believe me - if they
were there for leptons DESY would have noticed. Even
more so we at the EMC (European Muon Collaboration)
would have noticed if they were there for muons. They
are not. You can believe this if you like, but you are
wrong.<br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<font color="#003300">The strong force binds the nuclei in
the atom and binds the quarks in a nucleus. They have to
be bound in a way that they do not touch each other. This
is like the atoms in a molecule which are also bound to
each other in a way that they do not touch. This is, as we
know, achieved by a multipole field. In the molecule it is
the van der Waals field based on the electric force. In
the nucleus it must be also a multipole field, but based
on the strong force. (In nuclear physics this is normally
not explained in such a detail but only the result given;
this is the typical way in QM).
<br>
<br>
Such multipole field has a minimum of the potential at a
certain distance. This distance defines the distance of
the participants. But outside this range the field is
still existent; at distance it could decrease by the 1/r^2
law. At least I assume this for my particle model and I
see it confirmed by the fact that the Landé factor of the
electron has the correct value if I make this assumption.<br>
<br>
If now two objects are bound to each other in this way,
then the combined field seen from outside has a steeper
decrease with r, in the example of my model with 1/r^4 at
greater distances. So, if there is an electrical charge in
addition, the fall-off at some distance will cause that
outside the strong force is in effect weaker than the
electrical one.</font>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div style="direction:ltr; font-family:Tahoma;
color:#000000; font-size:10pt">
<div style="direction:ltr; font-family:Tahoma;
color:#000000; font-size:10pt"><br>
Once again - if there were two bits inside the
electron, held together by whatever forces, we would
have seen this. We did not, so there are not. End of
story. The electron, whatever it is, acts as one thing
- at least up to energies up to 400 000 times its
mass-energy.<br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<font color="#003300">This is clearly not correct. I have
discussed this case with a former research director of
DESY. He has spent his entire scientific life with
electron scattering experiments and was known for his
excellent knowledge of electron experiments all over the
world. I could not convince him of my model of a composed
and extended electron. But he admitted that there is no
experimental evidence which is in conflict with my model.
I have explained the reasons in detail here before, so I
do not repeat it this time again.</font><br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div style="direction:ltr; font-family:Tahoma;
color:#000000; font-size:10pt">
<div style="direction:ltr; font-family:Tahoma;
color:#000000; font-size:10pt"><br>
There IS something holding the electron charge
together though. These have been, for the last
century, designated the "Poincare stresses". Feynmann
talks about these in his lectures. As far as I know,
except for the description in my new papers (the
interaction between electric field and p-vot) and the
forces Martin and I have been calculating with and
talking about over the last two decades, these remain
otherwise mysterious. A mystery that endured for most
of a century. In my theory everything is smooth and
the whole object is a single self-confining wave. Just
one thing.<br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<font color="#003300">My impression regarding my electron
model (which covers also all leptons and all quarks) is a
simple and stable model which covers everything understood
today and some facts in addition.
<br>
</font>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div style="direction:ltr; font-family:Tahoma;
color:#000000; font-size:10pt">
<div style="direction:ltr; font-family:Tahoma;
color:#000000; font-size:10pt"><br>
Sorry if I gave the impression my talk at Mendel was
on the proton size. It was not. I did talk about my
model for quarks and the strong force though, though
that is not in the proceedings paper (attached) which
was on a possible reason for the exclusion principle
for fermions.<br>
<br>
There is something on this on the internet in the talk
I gave at CYBCOM, for which Nick Green provided a link
earlier.<br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<font color="#003300">Thanks!</font><br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div style="direction:ltr; font-family:Tahoma;
color:#000000; font-size:10pt">
<div style="direction:ltr; font-family:Tahoma;
color:#000000; font-size:10pt"><br>
Regards, John W.<br>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<font color="#003300">Regards<br>
Albrecht</font><br>
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
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<hr tabindex="-1">
<div id="divRpF849082" style="direction:ltr"><font
size="2" color="#000000" face="Tahoma"><b>From:</b>
Albrecht Giese [<a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:genmail@a-giese.de"
target="_blank">genmail@a-giese.de</a>]<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Sunday, December 06, 2015 9:29 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> John Williamson; Nature of Light and
Particles - General Discussion<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Mark, Martin van der; Nick Bailey;
David Williamson; <a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:pete@leathergoth.com"
target="_blank">
pete@leathergoth.com</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [General] Reply of comments
from what a model…<br>
</font><br>
</div>
<div>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Hello John,<br>
<br>
there seems indeed something not understood
about the reaction between nucleons (i.e.
quarks) and leptons. I have heard about the
differently measured size of a proton depending
on whether it is in contact with electrons or
muons. Thanks that you have reminded me of this.<br>
<br>
The case of a muon in the atomic orbit, from
which a smaller size of the proton follows, can
be at least qualitatively deduced from the
assumption of a strong force in leptons as given
in my model. I should calculate this
quantitatively but need some extra time to do
it. Have it on schedule.<br>
<br>
There is another influence of the assumption of
strong force in electrons in my model. I have
shown in my talk in San Diego that the
simultaneous influence of the electrical force
and the strong force explains classically the
Landé factor.
<br>
<br>
You write about a talk which you have given
about the topic of the proton's size at
MEDEL2012 and about proceedings of it. Could you
do me the favor and give me a link or some other
connection to your contribution?<br>
<br>
Regards<br>
Albrecht<br>
<br>
<br>
Am 01.12.2015 um 01:35 schrieb John Williamson:</div>
<blockquote type="cite"><br>
<div class="moz-forward-container">Hello
Albrecht,<br>
<div style="direction:ltr; font-family:Tahoma;
color:#000000; font-size:10pt"><br>
Good for you. I knew about this
(peripherally) - but would have been worried
if there had been a direct measurement of
leptons feeling the "strong force" - which
this is not.<br>
<br>
There are a set of these "anomalies". The
most important (and oldest to my knowledge)
is that measured in spin-spin scattering at
the ZGS (O'Fallon et al 1977). There is
another (the EMC effect) with my own name on
the papers (I am not central to this work
and am one of dozens of "authors" on the
papers: my role was just to write some of
the code for electromagnetic (QED) shower
simulation and for parts of a "QCD"
monte-carlo used in some of the analysis).<br>
<br>
There are more recent experiments where the
proton "size" differs (its cross-section -
that is the inter-action rate) depending on
which lepton you observe it with.<br>
<br>
These are all, in my view, down to a lack of
understanding as to what the "strong" force
is. There are no actual calculations for
this because the only theory we have (QCD)
is non-perturbative. I will translate (for
mothers) "non perturbative" is shorthand for
- one cannot calculate anything with it
using any known techniques. Yes - that bad.<br>
<br>
The underlying anomlies all come fron the
proper nature of the strong force. THis was
part of my invited (keynote) talk at
MENDEL2012 and there is something on this in
the proceedings.<br>
<br>
Regards, John.<br>
<div style="font-family:Times New Roman;
color:#000000; font-size:16px">
<hr tabindex="-1">
<div id="divRpF506109"
style="direction:ltr"><font size="2"
color="#000000" face="Tahoma"><b>From:</b>
Albrecht Giese [<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:genmail@a-giese.de"
target="_blank"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:genmail@a-giese.de">genmail@a-giese.de</a></a>]<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, November 30, 2015
8:19 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> John Williamson; Nature of
Light and Particles - General
Discussion<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [General] Reply of
comments from what a model…<br>
</font><br>
</div>
<div>Hello John,<br>
<br>
it took me some time to find references,
sorry. And I could not find the original
paper of DESY about it, but a magazine.
<br>
<br>
The indication of the strong force to
leptons is a more indirect conclusion.
In 1997 two teams at the HERA storage
ring at DESY found an unexpected excess
of events in quark-positron
interactions. These events were
unexpected as the Standard Model
excludes an interaction of quarks with
leptons on the basis of the strong
force. It was then made the ad hoc
assumption that an unknown particle may
exist with name leptoquark. Such
particle is not excluded by the Standard
Model, and it is assumed to react with
leptons and with quarks. The following
search for leptoquarks at DESY and at
other labs was without success. So the
direct interaction between quarks and
leptons by the strong force will remain
as a solution.<br>
<br>
I can give the following references for
this:<br>
1.) Scientific American, March 24,
1997 about the detection of additional
events<br>
2.) <small> </small>"Search for contact
interactions, large extra dimensions and
finite quark radius in
<i>ep </i>collisions at HERA", ZEUS
Collaboration, Physics Letters B 591
(2004) 23-41 as an example for the
search for leptoquarks.<br>
<br>
But I would like to emphasize again that
the assumption for the strong force in
e.g. the electron makes it possible to
deduce the inertial mass of this
particle (as also of others). I do not
know any other approach which provides
an origin of inertia deduced from
basics.<br>
<br>
Regards<br>
Albrecht<br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am
27.11.2015 um 03:46 schrieb John
Williamson:<br>
</div>
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<div style="direction:ltr;
font-family:Tahoma; color:#000000;
font-size:10pt">Hello Albrecht,<br>
<br>
So the strong force has been
observed to act on electrons at
DESY? Very interesting. Do you have
a reference for that?<br>
<br>
Regards, John.<br>
<div style="font-family:Times New
Roman; color:#000000;
font-size:16px">
<hr tabindex="-1">
<div id="divRpF304961"
style="direction:ltr"><font
size="2" color="#000000"
face="Tahoma"><b>From:</b>
General [<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:general-bounces+john.williamson=glasgow.ac.uk@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"
target="_blank"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:general-bounces+john.williamson=glasgow.ac.uk@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org">general-bounces+john.williamson=glasgow.ac.uk@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a></a>]
on behalf of Albrecht Giese [<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:genmail@a-giese.de" target="_blank"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:genmail@a-giese.de">genmail@a-giese.de</a></a>]<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday,
November 26, 2015 4:53 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Richard Gauthier<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Nature of Light and
Particles - General Discussion<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [General]
Reply of comments from what a
model…<br>
</font><br>
</div>
<div>Hallo Richard,<br>
<br>
thank you for your alternative
proposal. Unfortunately there
are some points of
misunderstanding with respect to
my model. And also some other
physical arguments I like to
point to - in your text.<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am
23.11.2015 um 19:43 schrieb
Richard Gauthier:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">Hello
Albrecht,
<div class=""><br class="">
<div class=""> I’m glad
that you say that
developing a 2-particle
model of the electron was
not your main interest. I
think it will be useful to
see what parts of your
model may be saved, and
what parts may have to go,
to get a working model in
progress for the electron
which most of us here
might agree on. First,
since there is no
generally accepted
evidence of a nuclear
strong force relation to
electrons, let’s drop that
proposal for holding your
2 circulating charged
massless particles in
orbit, at least for now. </div>
</div>
</blockquote>
Here I object. 1) The strong
force in the electron was seen
at DESY experiments in the
1990s. 2) Without referring to
the strong force, the
calculation of the mass of the
electron has incorrect results
by a factor of several hundred.
This was found out by physicists
in the 1940s, e.g. by Helmut
Hönl. (I can send you his paper
if you are interested, however
in German.)<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div class="">
<div class="">Second, since
there’s no evidence for a
two-particle structure of
the electron from any
scattering or other
experiments, let’s also
consider dropping that
proposal for now. Your
insistence that a
2-particle model is
required for conservation
of momentum at the
sub-electron level does
not seem sufficient to
accept this part of your
2-particle model. We don’t
even know experimentally
that conservation of
momentum exists at the
sub-electron level, do we?
Just an article of faith?</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
This may be a point of personal
judgement, but in my view the
conservation if momentum is a
fundamental law in physics,
maybe the most fundamental law.
It follows logically from the
symmetry of space (refer to Emmy
Noether, who has set some
logical basics for QM).<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div class="">
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""> So what is
left of your model? You
claim that your two
particles are massless and
travel at light speed.
But you don’t say that
they are also without
energy, do you? If there
are two massless
particles, they will still
each have to have 0.511/2
MeV of energy if the
electron’s total resting
energy 0.511 MeV is
divided equally between
them.
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
I have explained this in a
former comment. The two "basic"
particles do not have any energy
by themselves. The energy is
caused by the motion of the
basic particles in the situation
of a bind. Mass is anyway a
dynamic property of matter as it
is even seen by present main
stream physics.<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div class="">
<div class="">One kind of
particle that has no rest
mass but has energy and
travels at light speed is
a photon.
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
This assumption is not true as
explained above. <br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div class="">
<div class="">(Let’s forget
about gluons here for now
since there is no accepted
evidence for a strong
nuclear force on
electrons). So each of
your two particles (if
there are still two for
some other reason besides
conservation of momentum,
and a need for an
attractive force between
them to overcome their
electric repulsion) could
be a charged photon
(circulating charge is
necessary to get a
magnetic moment for the
model) with energy 0.511/2
MeV, which has energy but
no rest mass. OK.
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
Not true!<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div class="">
<div class="">But each of
these two charged photons,
each of energy 0.511/2 MeV
= mc^2/2 will have a
wavelength of 2 Compton
wavelengths = 2 h/mc . If
1 wavelength of each
photon is turned into a
single closed loop, the
each loop would have a
radius 2hbar/mc, which is
twice the radius hbar/mc
of your proposed electron
model. To make each of
these photons move
circularly in a way that
each of their wavelengths
gives a radius of hbar/mc
as in your model, each
photon would have to move
in a double loop. So there
will be two photons each
of energy 0.511/2 moving
in a double loop in this
model. This is getting
complicated.</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
The Compton wavelength has a
different origin. It comes from
scattering of photons at an
electron (example). The Compton
wavelength is then the maximum
change of the wavelength of the
photon in such process. - This
wavelength is in this way not
any geometrical extension of the
electron. Yes, we find this
value in some calculations, but
we should be cautious to use it
for the determination of
dimension.
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div class="">
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""> Let’s drop
one of the two photons for
simplicity (Occam’s razor
put to good use) so that
the other photon will have
the full electron energy
0.511 MeV .
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
What is the origin of this
energy in the photon? And which
mechanism causes actually the
energy of this photon? A photon
can in general have any energy,
doesn't it?<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div class="">
<div class="">This photon
will now have a wavelength
1 Compton wavelength. If
this 1 Compton wavelength
charged photon moves in a
single loop it will create
an electron with magnetic
moment 1 Bohr magneton and
a spin of 1 hbar. That’s
good for the experimental
magnetic moment of the
electron (slightly more
than 1 Bohr magneton) but
bad for its experimental
spin (which you tried to
reduce to 1/2 hbar in your
model by a delayed force
argument). If the photon
moves in a double loop it
will be good for the spin
(which now is exactly 1/2
hbar) but bad for the
magnetic moment (now 1/2
Bohr magneton).
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
Why does the double loop reduce
the spin? Why the Bohr magneton?
The magnetic moment depends on
the area in the loop. How large
is this area in this case?<br>
<br>
The magnetic moment is larger
than the Bohr magneton. In my
model this is the contribution
of the (small) electrical
charges in view of the (large)
strong charges.<br>
<br>
And which mechanism causes the
double loop? It cannot come from
itself. A circuit is a simple
structure which does not need
many influences. A double loop
is more and needs a cause.<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div class="">
<div class="">So there’s
still a problem with the
model’s magnetic moment.
But this double-looping
charged photon model now
has gained the
zitterbewegung frequency
of the Dirac electron
which is desirable for an
electron model which hopes
to model the Dirac
electron. And it also has
720 degree symmetry which
the Dirac electron has
(while your original
2-particle model has a
rotational symmetry of 180
degrees, since each
particle would take the
place of the other after a
half-circle rotation).</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
In my model the zitterbewegung
frequency is the circulation
frequency of the basic
particles. The rotational
symmetry is not 180 but 360
degrees as the strong field of
the basic particles is not
equal, but one basic particle
changes the other one by
electrical influence. This works
analogue to the case of the van
der Waals force. <br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div class="">
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""> What do
you think of this new
model so far?</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
Did I explain it sufficiently?<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div class="">
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">
Richard</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
Albrecht<br>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div class="">
<div class=""><br class="">
<div>
<blockquote type="cite"
class="">
<div class="">On Nov
22, 2015, at 9:43
AM, Albrecht Giese
<<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:genmail@a-giese.de"
target="_blank"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:genmail@a-giese.de">genmail@a-giese.de</a></a>>
wrote:</div>
<br
class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<div class="">
<div
bgcolor="#FFFFFF"
class="">Hello
Richard,<br
class="">
<br class="">
I never have
persistently tried
to develop a
2-particle model.
What I have
persistently tried
was to find a good
explanation for
relativistic
dilation. And
there I found a
solution which has
satisfied me. All
the rest including
the 2 particles in
my model where
logical
consequences where
I did not see
alternatives. If
there should be a
model which is an
alternative in one
or the other
aspect, I will be
happy to see it.<br
class="">
<br class="">
<div
class="moz-cite-prefix">Am
22.11.2015 um
00:13 schrieb
Richard
Gauthier:<br
class="">
</div>
<blockquote
type="cite"
class="">Hello
Albrecht,
<div class=""><br
class="">
<div class="">
I admire your
persistence in
trying to save
your doomed
(in my
opinion)
2-particle
electron
model.
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
Why 2 particles in
the model? I say
it again:<br
class="">
<br class="">
1) to maintain the
conservation of
momentum in the
view of
oscillations<br
class="">
2) to have a
mechanism for
inertia (which has
very precise
results, otherwise
non-existent in
present physics)<br
class="">
<br class="">
I will be happy to
see alternatives
for both points.
Up to now I have
not seen any.<br
class="">
<blockquote
type="cite"
class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">Do
you understand
how
unreasonable
and irrational
it appears for
you to write:
"Then I had
to determine
the field
constant S
which is
normally
provided by
experiments.
But quantum
mechanics is
so unprecise
regarding the
numeric value
of the strong
force that
there is no
number
available in
the data
tables. Here I
found that I
could use the
Bohr magneton
to determine
the constant.
(Which turned
out to be S =
hbar*c, merely
a constant).”
?
<br class="">
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
I have once asked
one of the leading
theorists at DESY
for a better
quantitative
explanation or
determination of
the strong force.
His answer: Sorry,
the strong force
is not good enough
understood so that
I cannot give you
better
information.
<br class="">
<blockquote
type="cite"
class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">How
could the
number S that
you could not
find in
“unprecise”
tables about
the strong
force possibly
be the same
number that
can be found
precisely from
the electron’s
Bohr magneton
ehbar/2m and
which you
claim is S =
hbar*c ? This
is an
unbelievable,
desperate
stretch of
imagination
and "grasping
at straws", in
my opinion. <br
class="">
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
When I have
realized that my
model deduces the
Bohr magneton, I
have used the
measurements
available in that
context to
determine my field
constant. (I could
also go the other
way: I can use the
Planck / Einstein
relation E = h * f
and the
Einstein-relation
E = m*c<sup
class="">2</sup>
to determine the
constant S from
the internal
frequency in my
model. Same
result. But I like
the other way
better. BTW: Do
you know any other
model which
deduces these
relations rather
than using them as
given?)<br
class="">
<blockquote
type="cite"
class="">
<div class="">
<div class=""><br
class="">
</div>
<div class="">Here
is the meaning
of “grasping
at straws”
from <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/grasp+at+straws"
target="_blank"><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/grasp+at+straws">http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/grasp+at+straws</a></a> :</div>
<h2 class=""
style="font-size:1.8rem;
line-height:1.8rem;
display:inline-block;
margin:0px
0.2rem 6px
0px;
color:rgb(64,64,64);
font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">
grasp at
straws</h2>
<div class=""><span
class="hvr"
style="color:rgb(64,64,64);
font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:13px;
line-height:19.5px">Also,</span><span class=""
style="color:rgb(64,64,64);
font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:13px;
line-height:19.5px"> </span><b class="" style="color:rgb(64,64,64);
font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:13px;
line-height:19.5px"><span class="hvr" style="">clutch</span> at <span
class="hvr"
style="">straws</span></b><span
class=""
style="color:rgb(64,64,64);
font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:13px;
line-height:19.5px">.</span><span class="" style="color:rgb(64,64,64);
font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:13px;
line-height:19.5px"> </span><span class="hvr"
style="color:rgb(64,64,64);
font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:13px;
line-height:19.5px">Make</span><span class=""
style="color:rgb(64,64,64);
font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:13px;
line-height:19.5px"> </span><span class="" style="color:rgb(64,64,64);
font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:13px;
line-height:19.5px">a</span><span class="" style="color:rgb(64,64,64);
font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:13px;
line-height:19.5px"> </span><span class="hvr"
style="color:rgb(64,64,64);
font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:13px;
line-height:19.5px">desperate</span><span class=""
style="color:rgb(64,64,64);
font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:13px;
line-height:19.5px"> </span><span class="hvr"
style="color:rgb(64,64,64);
font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:13px;
line-height:19.5px">attempt</span><span class=""
style="color:rgb(64,64,64);
font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:13px;
line-height:19.5px"> </span><span class="" style="color:rgb(64,64,64);
font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:13px;
line-height:19.5px">at</span><span class="" style="color:rgb(64,64,64);
font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:13px;
line-height:19.5px"> </span><span class="hvr"
style="color:rgb(64,64,64);
font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:13px;
line-height:19.5px">saving</span><span class=""
style="color:rgb(64,64,64);
font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:13px;
line-height:19.5px"> </span><span class="hvr"
style="color:rgb(64,64,64);
font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:13px;
line-height:19.5px">oneself.</span><span class=""
style="color:rgb(64,64,64);
font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:13px;
line-height:19.5px"> </span><span class="hvr"
style="color:rgb(64,64,64);
font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:13px;
line-height:19.5px">For</span><span class="" style="color:rgb(64,64,64);
font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:13px;
line-height:19.5px"> </span><span class="hvr"
style="color:rgb(64,64,64);
font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:13px;
line-height:19.5px">example,</span><span class=""
style="color:rgb(64,64,64);
font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:13px;
line-height:19.5px"> </span><i class="" style="color:rgb(64,64,64);
font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:13px;
line-height:19.5px">He <span class="hvr" style="">had </span><span
class="hvr"
style="">lost</span> <span
class="hvr"
style="">the</span> <span
class="hvr"
style="">argument,</span> <span
class="hvr"
style="">but</span> he <span
class="hvr"
style="">kept</span> <span
class="hvr"
style="">grasping</span> at <span
class="hvr"
style="">straws,</span> <span
class="hvr"
style="">naming</span> <span
class="hvr"
style="">numerous</span> <span
class="hvr"
style="">previous</span> <span
class="hvr"
style="">cases</span> <span
class="hvr"
style="">that </span><span
class="hvr"
style="">had</span> <span
class="hvr"
style="">little</span> to do <span
class="hvr"
style="">with</span> <span
class="hvr"
style="">this</span> <span
class="hvr"
style="">one</span></i><span
class=""
style="color:rgb(64,64,64);
font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:13px;
line-height:19.5px">.</span><span class="" style="color:rgb(64,64,64);
font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:13px;
line-height:19.5px"> </span><span class="hvr"
style="color:rgb(64,64,64);
font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:13px;
line-height:19.5px">This</span><span class=""
style="color:rgb(64,64,64);
font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:13px;
line-height:19.5px"> </span><span class="hvr"
style="color:rgb(64,64,64);
font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:13px;
line-height:19.5px">metaphoric</span><span class=""
style="color:rgb(64,64,64);
font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:13px;
line-height:19.5px"> </span><span class="hvr"
style="color:rgb(64,64,64);
font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:13px;
line-height:19.5px">expression</span><span class=""
style="color:rgb(64,64,64);
font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:13px;
line-height:19.5px"> </span><span class="hvr"
style="color:rgb(64,64,64);
font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:13px;
line-height:19.5px">alludes</span><span class=""
style="color:rgb(64,64,64);
font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:13px;
line-height:19.5px"> </span><span class="" style="color:rgb(64,64,64);
font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:13px;
line-height:19.5px">to</span><span class="" style="color:rgb(64,64,64);
font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:13px;
line-height:19.5px"> </span><span class="" style="color:rgb(64,64,64);
font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:13px;
line-height:19.5px">a</span><span class="" style="color:rgb(64,64,64);
font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:13px;
line-height:19.5px"> </span><span class="hvr"
style="color:rgb(64,64,64);
font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:13px;
line-height:19.5px">drowning</span><span class=""
style="color:rgb(64,64,64);
font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:13px;
line-height:19.5px"> </span><span class="hvr"
style="color:rgb(64,64,64);
font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:13px;
line-height:19.5px">person </span><span class="hvr"
style="color:rgb(64,64,64);
font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:13px;
line-height:19.5px">trying</span><span class=""
style="color:rgb(64,64,64);
font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:13px;
line-height:19.5px"> </span><span class="" style="color:rgb(64,64,64);
font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:13px;
line-height:19.5px">to</span><span class="" style="color:rgb(64,64,64);
font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:13px;
line-height:19.5px"> </span><span class="hvr"
style="color:rgb(64,64,64);
font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:13px;
line-height:19.5px">save</span><span class=""
style="color:rgb(64,64,64);
font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:13px;
line-height:19.5px"> </span><span class="hvr"
style="color:rgb(64,64,64);
font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:13px;
line-height:19.5px">himself</span><span class=""
style="color:rgb(64,64,64);
font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:13px;
line-height:19.5px"> </span><span class="" style="color:rgb(64,64,64);
font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:13px;
line-height:19.5px">by</span><span class="" style="color:rgb(64,64,64);
font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:13px;
line-height:19.5px"> </span><span class="hvr"
style="color:rgb(64,64,64);
font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:13px;
line-height:19.5px">grabbing</span><span class=""
style="color:rgb(64,64,64);
font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:13px;
line-height:19.5px"> </span><span class="" style="color:rgb(64,64,64);
font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:13px;
line-height:19.5px">at</span><span class="" style="color:rgb(64,64,64);
font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:13px;
line-height:19.5px"> </span><span class="hvr"
style="color:rgb(64,64,64);
font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:13px;
line-height:19.5px">flimsy</span><span class=""
style="color:rgb(64,64,64);
font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:13px;
line-height:19.5px"> </span><span class="hvr"
style="color:rgb(64,64,64);
font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:13px;
line-height:19.5px">reeds.</span><span class=""
style="color:rgb(64,64,64);
font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:13px;
line-height:19.5px"> </span><span class="hvr"
style="color:rgb(64,64,64);
font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:13px;
line-height:19.5px">First</span><span class=""
style="color:rgb(64,64,64);
font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:13px;
line-height:19.5px"> </span><span class="hvr"
style="color:rgb(64,64,64);
font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:13px;
line-height:19.5px">recorded</span><span class=""
style="color:rgb(64,64,64);
font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:13px;
line-height:19.5px"> </span><span class="" style="color:rgb(64,64,64);
font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:13px;
line-height:19.5px">in</span><span class="" style="color:rgb(64,64,64);
font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:13px;
line-height:19.5px"> </span><span class="hvr"
style="color:rgb(64,64,64);
font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:13px;
line-height:19.5px">1534,</span><span class=""
style="color:rgb(64,64,64);
font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:13px;
line-height:19.5px"> </span><span class="hvr"
style="color:rgb(64,64,64);
font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:13px;
line-height:19.5px">the</span><span class="" style="color:rgb(64,64,64);
font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:13px;
line-height:19.5px"> </span><span class="hvr"
style="color:rgb(64,64,64);
font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:13px;
line-height:19.5px">term</span><span class=""
style="color:rgb(64,64,64);
font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:13px;
line-height:19.5px"> </span><span class="hvr"
style="color:rgb(64,64,64);
font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:13px;
line-height:19.5px">was </span><span class="hvr"
style="color:rgb(64,64,64);
font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:13px;
line-height:19.5px">used</span><span class=""
style="color:rgb(64,64,64);
font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:13px;
line-height:19.5px"> </span><span class="hvr"
style="color:rgb(64,64,64);
font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:13px;
line-height:19.5px">figuratively</span><span class=""
style="color:rgb(64,64,64);
font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:13px;
line-height:19.5px"> </span><span class="" style="color:rgb(64,64,64);
font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:13px;
line-height:19.5px">by</span><span class="" style="color:rgb(64,64,64);
font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:13px;
line-height:19.5px"> </span><span class="hvr"
style="color:rgb(64,64,64);
font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:13px;
line-height:19.5px">the</span><span class="" style="color:rgb(64,64,64);
font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:13px;
line-height:19.5px"> </span><span class="hvr"
style="color:rgb(64,64,64);
font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:13px;
line-height:19.5px">late</span><span class=""
style="color:rgb(64,64,64);
font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:13px;
line-height:19.5px"> </span><span class="hvr"
style="color:rgb(64,64,64);
font-family:Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;
font-size:13px;
line-height:19.5px">1600s.</span> </div>
<div class=""><br
class="">
</div>
<div class="">I
am not at all
opposed to
using
desperate
measures to
find or save a
hypothesis
that is very
important to
you. Max
Planck
described his
efforts to fit
the black body
radiation
equation using
quantized
energies of
hypothetical
oscillators as
an "act of
desperation”.
So you are of
course free to
keep
desperately
trying to save
your
2-particle
electron
hypothesis. I
personally
think that
your many
talents in
physics could
be better
spent in other
ways, for
example in
revising your
electron model
to make it
more
consistent
with
experimental
facts.</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
Do you know any
other electron
model which is so
much consistent
with experimental
facts (e.g. size
and mass) as this
one (without
needing the usual
mystifications of
quantum
mechanics)?<br
class="">
<blockquote
type="cite"
class="">
<div class="">
<div class=""> </div>
<div class="">
By the way,
van der Waals
forces do not
"bind atoms to
form a
molecule".
They are
attractive or
repulsive
forces between
molecules or
between parts
of a molecule.
According to
Wikipedia:</div>
<div class=""><br
class="">
</div>
<div class="">" <span
class=""
style="color:rgb(37,37,37);
font-family:sans-serif;
font-size:14px;
line-height:22px;
background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">the </span><b class=""
style="color:rgb(37,37,37);
font-family:sans-serif;
font-size:14px;
line-height:22px">van der Waals forces</b><span class=""
style="color:rgb(37,37,37);
font-family:sans-serif;
font-size:14px;
line-height:22px;
background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"> (or </span><b class=""
style="color:rgb(37,37,37);
font-family:sans-serif;
font-size:14px;
line-height:22px">van der Waals' interaction</b><span class=""
style="color:rgb(37,37,37);
font-family:sans-serif;
font-size:14px;
line-height:22px;
background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">), named after </span><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netherlands" title="Netherlands"
class=""
style="text-decoration:none;
color:rgb(11,0,128);
font-family:sans-serif;
font-size:14px;
line-height:22px" target="_blank">Dutch</a><span class=""
style="color:rgb(37,37,37);
font-family:sans-serif;
font-size:14px;
line-height:22px;
background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"> </span><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientist"
title="Scientist" class="" style="text-decoration:none;
color:rgb(11,0,128);
font-family:sans-serif;
font-size:14px;
line-height:22px" target="_blank">scientist</a><span class=""
style="color:rgb(37,37,37);
font-family:sans-serif;
font-size:14px;
line-height:22px;
background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"> </span><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johannes_Diderik_van_der_Waals"
title="Johannes
Diderik van
der Waals"
class=""
style="text-decoration:none;
color:rgb(11,0,128);
font-family:sans-serif;
font-size:14px;
line-height:22px" target="_blank">Johannes Diderik van der Waals</a><span
class=""
style="color:rgb(37,37,37);
font-family:sans-serif;
font-size:14px;
line-height:22px;
background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">, is the sum of the attractive or
repulsive
forces
between </span><a
moz-do-not-send="true" href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molecule"
title="Molecule"
class=""
style="text-decoration:none;
color:rgb(11,0,128);
font-family:sans-serif;
font-size:14px;
line-height:22px" target="_blank">molecules</a><span class=""
style="color:rgb(37,37,37);
font-family:sans-serif;
font-size:14px;
line-height:22px;
background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"> (or between parts of the same
molecule)
other than
those due to </span><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Covalent_bond"
title="Covalent
bond" class=""
style="text-decoration:none;
color:rgb(11,0,128);
font-family:sans-serif;
font-size:14px;
line-height:22px" target="_blank">covalent bonds</a><span class=""
style="color:rgb(37,37,37);
font-family:sans-serif;
font-size:14px;
line-height:22px;
background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">, or the </span><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrostatic_interaction"
title="Electrostatic
interaction"
class="mw-redirect"
style="text-decoration:none;
color:rgb(11,0,128);
font-family:sans-serif;
font-size:14px;
line-height:22px" target="_blank">electrostatic interaction</a><span
class=""
style="color:rgb(37,37,37);
font-family:sans-serif;
font-size:14px;
line-height:22px;
background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"> of </span><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ion" title="Ion" class=""
style="text-decoration:none;
color:rgb(11,0,128);
font-family:sans-serif;
font-size:14px;
line-height:22px" target="_blank">ions</a><span class=""
style="color:rgb(37,37,37);
font-family:sans-serif;
font-size:14px;
line-height:22px;
background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"> with one another, with neutral
molecules, or
with charged
molecules.</span><sup
id="cite_ref-1" class="reference" style="line-height:1; font-size:11px;
color:rgb(37,37,37);
font-family:sans-serif"><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Van_der_Waals_force#cite_note-1"
class=""
style="text-decoration:none;
color:rgb(11,0,128);
white-space:nowrap" target="_blank">[1]</a></sup><span class=""
style="color:rgb(37,37,37);
font-family:sans-serif;
font-size:14px;
line-height:22px;
background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"> The resulting van der Waals forces
can be
attractive or
repulsive.</span><sup
id="cite_ref-Van_OssAbsolom1980_2-0" class="reference"
style="line-height:1;
font-size:11px;
color:rgb(37,37,37);
font-family:sans-serif"><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Van_der_Waals_force#cite_note-Van_OssAbsolom1980-2"
class=""
style="text-decoration:none;
color:rgb(11,0,128);
white-space:nowrap" target="_blank">[2]</a></sup></div>
</div>
</blockquote>
Yes, my
arrangement of
charges of the
strong force
causes as well a
combination of
attractive and
repulsive forces
and is doing the
same like in the
van der Waals
case. That was my
reason to refer to
them.<br class="">
<br class="">
Best regards<br
class="">
Albrecht<br
class="">
<blockquote
type="cite"
class="">
<div class="">
<div class=""><br
class="">
</div>
<div class="">with
best regards,</div>
<div class="">
Richard</div>
<div class=""><br
class="">
</div>
<br>
</div>
</blockquote>
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