<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=windows-1252"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Hello Albrecht,<div class=""><br class=""><div class=""> I know that you object to my derivation, but I am proposing that momentum is primary and inertia is secondary. You have got it backwards. The inertial mass of an electron is (in my approach) quantitatively due to the circulating internal momentum of its charged (or uncharged) photon. By extension, the inertial mass of all particles with rest mass is likely due to internally circulating momenta. It is true as you say that in a world without inertia (or inertial mass) there would be no momentum, but in a world without momentum there would also be no inertia (or inertial mass). Inertia (or inertial mass) is due to momentum (in my approach). Momentum is not due to inertia. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""> I know that your electron hypothesis attempts to derive the inertia of an electron differently. But I think you will have to admit that my derivation of the electron’s inertial mass from the electron’s proposed circulating internal photon momentum is very much simpler than yours (which is by the way based on highly questionable premises since there is no accepted experimental evidence for the strong nuclear force influencing electric charges, zero experimental evidence for two sub-particles in an electron, and your electron model’s apparently negative rest mass due to its negative internal potential energy), and thus by Occam's Razor, much to be preferred. Plus, your model doesn’t derive the inertial mass of a photon as hf/c^2 or the inertial mass of a relativistically moving electron as gamma m, does it?</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""> Richard</div><div class=""><br class=""><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Jan 25, 2016, at 8:33 AM, Albrecht Giese <<a href="mailto:genmail@a-giese.de" class="">genmail@a-giese.de</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class="">
<meta content="text/html; charset=windows-1252" http-equiv="Content-Type" class="">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF" class="">
Dear Richard,<br class="">
<br class="">
you know that I object to your derivation of inertial mass. You
deduce it from momentum. That is mathematically possible by using
the known relations. But it is not logical in so far as momentum
depends on inertia. In a world without inertia there would be no
momentum.<br class="">
<br class="">
So we have to explain first the mechanism of inertia itself, then we
can derive the momentum and the inertial mass.<br class="">
<br class="">
Best<br class="">
Albrecht<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 24.01.2016 um 20:42 schrieb Richard
Gauthier:<br class="">
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:0907288F-7DBF-486D-B8E1-30751A151F73@gmail.com" type="cite" class="">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
charset=windows-1252" class="">
<div class="">Hello Vladimir and Chandra and all,</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""> Yes, I definitely support the idea of the ether as
material space, and that all physical particles are derived from
this ether. This ether can also be called a plenum or Cosmic
Tension Field.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""> I don’t however think that it is necessary to
explain the inertial mass of particles in relation to a
"coefficient of inertia” or "the amount of momentum the ether
resists." I have shown (<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="https://www.academia.edu/19652036/The_Origin_of_the_Electrons_Inertia" class="">https://www.academia.edu/19652036/The_Origin_of_the_Electrons_Inertia</a> )
by a very simple derivation that the inertial mass m of an
electron may be derived from the momentum of the circling photon
in a circulating-photon model of the electron, whose circling
photon has momentum mc where m = Eo/c^2 = hf/c^2 , where Eo is
the rest energy 0.511 MeV of the electron and f is the frequency
of the circulating photon in the resting electron. Secondly, in
a similar way I derived a linearly moving photon's inertial mass
to be M-inertial = hf/c^2 , where f is the photon’s frequency,
even though a photon has zero rest mass. Thirdly, I derived the
inertial mass of a relativistic electron, whose momentum is
p=gamma mv, to be M-inertial = gamma m , even though the moving
electron's rest mass is m. </div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""> I present these derivations below, taken from
the <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://academia.edu/" class="">academia.edu</a> session on my electron inertia
article at <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="https://www.academia.edu/s/a26afd55e0?source=link" class="">https://www.academia.edu/s/a26afd55e0?source=link</a> :</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><span class="js-non-expanded-comment" style="box-sizing: border-box; color: rgb(73, 72, 72); font-family: Georgia, serif; font-size: 14px; line-height: 22px; white-space: pre-wrap;">"One reason people don’t think that a photon has any inertial mass (because it has no rest mass) is that how do you get a photon to change its momentum (i.e. accelerate) in order to measure its inertial mass. It can’t go faster or slower than c in a vacuum, so it can’t accelerate in a linear direction, and in normal physics a photon doesn’t follow a curved path (except with gravity), which would make it possible to measure its centripetal acceleration c^2/R . But as I showed in my short el</span><span class="js-expanded-comment" style="box-sizing: border-box; color: rgb(73, 72, 72); font-family: Georgia, serif; font-size: 14px; line-height: 22px; white-space: pre-wrap;">ectron inertia article at <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="https://www.academia.edu/19652036/The_Origin_of_the_Elect%0Arons_Inertia" class="">https://www.academia.edu/19652036/The_Origin_of_the_Electrons_Inertia</a> , the electron model in a resting electron has the photon going in a circle, with momentum mc and speed c, and the electron's inertial mass is then calculated to be M-inertial =(dp/dt)/Acentrifugal =wmc/(c^2/r)= m which is the inertial mass of the electron. But this calculation of the circling charged photon's inertial mass is independent of the radius of the charged photon’s circular orbit. Let that circular radius go towards infinity and you get a photon traveling in essentially a straight line, still having its inertial mass M =hf/c^2 (where the photon frequency f decreases as the radius of the circle increases) . So according to this logic, a linearly moving photon DOES have inertial mass M-inertial =hf/c^2 even though a photon has zero rest mass. And when a relativistic electron with momentum p=gamma mv travels in a circle with speed v, the inertial mass calculation above gives M
-in
ertial = gamma m for a circling relativistic electron, and not just m the electron’s rest mass . Extending the radius here towards infinity also gives a linearly moving electron an inertial mass M = gamma m and not just the electron's rest mass m."</span></div>
<div class=""><span class="js-expanded-comment" style="box-sizing: border-box; color: rgb(73, 72, 72); font-family: Georgia, serif; font-size: 14px; line-height: 22px; white-space: pre-wrap;">
</span></div>
<div class=""><span class="js-expanded-comment" style="box-sizing: border-box; color: rgb(73, 72, 72); font-family: Georgia, serif; font-size: 14px; line-height: 22px; white-space: pre-wrap;"><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; line-height: normal; white-space: normal;" class=""> As far as I know these are all original derivations of the inertial mass of a resting electron, a photon and a relativistic electron based on a circulating photon model of an electron. I would be pleased to be shown otherwise.</span></span></div>
<div class=""><span class="js-expanded-comment" style="box-sizing: border-box; color: rgb(73, 72, 72); font-family: Georgia, serif; font-size: 14px; line-height: 22px; white-space: pre-wrap;"><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; line-height: normal; white-space: normal;" class="">
</span></span></div>
<div class=""><span class="js-expanded-comment" style="box-sizing: border-box; color: rgb(73, 72, 72); font-family: Georgia, serif; font-size: 14px; line-height: 22px; white-space: pre-wrap;"><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; line-height: normal; white-space: normal;" class=""> Richard</span></span></div>
<div class=""><span class="js-expanded-comment" style="box-sizing: border-box; color: rgb(73, 72, 72); font-family: Georgia, serif; font-size: 14px; line-height: 22px; white-space: pre-wrap;"> </span></div>
<br class="">
<div class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">On Jan 24, 2016, at 6:42 AM, Roychoudhuri,
Chandra <<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:chandra.roychoudhuri@uconn.edu" class="">chandra.roychoudhuri@uconn.edu</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<div class="">
<div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1;
font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style:
normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal;
letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans:
auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform:
none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing:
0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt;" class="">Yes, Vlad, that is
also my viewpoint.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt;" class="">I do not remember
whether I have attached this paper while communicating
with you earlier. I call the “plenum” Cosmic Tension
Field (CTF), to be descriptive in its essential
properties.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt;" class="">Chandra.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><a moz-do-not-send="true" name="_MailEndCompose" class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri,
sans-serif; color: rgb(31, 73, 125);" class=""> </span></a></div>
<div class="">
<div style="border-style: solid none none;
border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, 223);
border-top-width: 1pt; padding: 3pt 0in 0in;" class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><b class=""><span style="font-size: 10pt;
font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;" class="">From:</span></b><span style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma,
sans-serif;" class=""><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>General [<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:general-bounces+chandra.roychoudhuri=uconn.edu@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org"></a><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:general-bounces+chandra.roychoudhuri=uconn.edu@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org">mailto:general-bounces+chandra.roychoudhuri=uconn.edu@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>]<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b class="">On Behalf Of<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Vladimir
Tamari<br class="">
<b class="">Sent:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Saturday,
January 23, 2016 7:00 PM<br class="">
<b class="">To:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Nature of
Light and Particles - General Discussion<br class="">
<b class="">Subject:</b><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re:
[General] (no subject)<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">Hi
Richard <o:p class=""></o:p></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">I
barge into your discussion without knowing your views
on a "plenum field" but if it is an ether I definitely
think there is one. A "coefficent of inertia" might be
defined as the amount of momentum the ether resists.
In a charged or gravitational field this coefficent
would increase...I think of this in terms of my
Beautiful Universe ether of dielectric nodes, except
this may give the wrong idea it is something matter
wades in.. not so. Matter and ether are made if the
selfsame nodes of energy!<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">Cheers<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">Vladimir<br class="">
<br class="">
_____________________<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><a moz-do-not-send="true" href="http://vladimirtamari.com/" style="color:
purple; text-decoration: underline;" class="">vladimirtamari.com</a><o:p class=""></o:p></div>
</div>
</div>
<div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 12pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',
serif;"><br class="">
On Jan 21, 2016, at 7:41 AM, Richard Gauthier <<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:richgauthier@gmail.com"></a><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:richgauthier@gmail.com">richgauthier@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p class=""></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom: 5pt;" class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">Hi Hodge,<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""> I don’t remember asking that. But if
I did, I’m glad the question was helpful.<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""> I’m thinking about inertia these days.
Do you or others have any insights about its
nature?<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""> Richard<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
</div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div>
<div class="">
<blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom:
5pt;" class="">
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class="">On Jan 20, 2016, at 1:43 PM, Hodge
John <<a moz-do-not-send="true" href="mailto:jchodge@frontier.com" style="color: purple; text-decoration:
underline;" class="">jchodge@frontier.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
</div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1453325918779_2533" class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New
Roman', serif; background-color: white;" class=""><span style="font-family:
Helvetica, sans-serif;" class="">Richard
Gauthier:<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1453325918779_2535" class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New
Roman', serif; background-color: white;" class=""><span style="font-family:
Helvetica, sans-serif;" class="">You
asked if the galaxy redshift, Pioneer
anomaly, Pound--Rebka experiment model
had a velocity term. I looked at
redshift data for 1 galaxy and found
no indication of a velocity term.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1453325918779_2537" class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New
Roman', serif; background-color: white;" class=""><span style="font-family:
Helvetica, sans-serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1453325918779_2539" class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New
Roman', serif; background-color: white;" class=""><span style="font-family:
Helvetica, sans-serif;" class="">I had
not noticed this in the equations.
Your suggestion that the plenum field
can look like the Higgs field seems
valid. That is, the acceleration of
the plenum field looks like it adds
energy (mass) is a Higgs Field
characteristic. Thus, the plenum is
closer to the idea of a quantum field
and Higgs field (weak force).<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1453325918779_2541" class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New
Roman', serif; background-color: white;" class=""><span style="font-family:
Helvetica, sans-serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1453325918779_2543" class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New
Roman', serif; background-color: white;" class=""><span style="font-family:
Helvetica, sans-serif;" class="">Thanks
for the insight.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1453325918779_2545" class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New
Roman', serif; background-color: white;" class=""><span style="font-family:
Helvetica, sans-serif;" class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1453325918779_2579" class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New
Roman', serif; background-color: white;" class="">Hodge<span style="font-family:
Helvetica, sans-serif;" class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
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