<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Hello Andrew,<div class=""> Good to hear from you and about the twins.</div><div class=""> An resting electron would have an internal circulating photon frequency fo= mc^2/h. Any photon moving in a circular path would have a frequency f which is unrelated to the frequency fo of an electron model. As the radius of the circle increases the value of f would decrease (assuming the number of wavelengths of the photon moving in the circle remains constant). So I think only 1 frequency is needed for each circle. Different frequencies for different circles. Still, it would be useful to be able to measure the inertial mass of a photon outside of gravitational considerations, where in any case it would be a measurement of gravitational mass of a photon and not inertial mass, wouldn’t it? General relativity postulates that inertial mass and gravitational mass are identical, but has anyone ever actually measured the inertial mass (not the rest mass) of a photon?</div><div class=""> I don’t think that a nucleus is considered to be part of a vacuum. But in any case an electron doesn’t need an atomic nucleus to exist. Something else holds an electron together, which is still mysterious.</div><div class=""> Richard</div><div class=""> </div><div class=""><br class=""><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On Jan 24, 2016, at 2:17 PM, Andrew Meulenberg <<a href="mailto:mules333@gmail.com" class="">mules333@gmail.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=""><div dir="ltr" class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class="">Richard,<br class=""><br class=""></div>I like your approach (even tho I may not believe it). With the new twins, I have only time enough to occasionally glance at these posts, & seldom enough to reply,; but, I make a couple comments here.<br class=""><br class=""><span style="color:rgb(73,72,72);font-family:Georgia,serif;font-size:14px;line-height:22px;white-space:pre-wrap" class="">You say:<br class=""></span><div style="margin-left:40px" class=""><span style="color:rgb(73,72,72);font-family:Georgia,serif;font-size:14px;line-height:22px;white-space:pre-wrap" class="">"Let that circular radius go towards infinity and you get a photon traveling in essentially a straight line, still having its inertial mass M =hf/c^2 (where the photon frequency f decreases </span><span style="color:rgb(73,72,72);font-family:Georgia,serif;font-size:14px;line-height:22px;white-space:pre-wrap" class=""><span style="color:rgb(73,72,72);font-family:Georgia,serif;font-size:14px;line-height:22px;white-space:pre-wrap" class="">as the radius of the circle increases</span>) ."<br class=""></span></div>I think that you need to define 2 frequencies, that of the photon, f, & the photon 'orbital' frequency fo. In a stationary electron, f = fo (perhaps f = 1/2 or 2 fo). The orbital frequency, fo, decreases<span style="color:rgb(73,72,72);font-family:Georgia,serif;font-size:14px;line-height:22px;white-space:pre-wrap" class=""> as the radius of the circle increases;<b class=""> f does not</b>.<br class=""><br class=""></span></div><span style="color:rgb(73,72,72);font-family:Georgia,serif;font-size:14px;line-height:22px;white-space:pre-wrap" class="">You also say:<br class=""></span><div style="margin-left:40px" class=""><span style="color:rgb(73,72,72);font-family:Georgia,serif;font-size:14px;line-height:22px;white-space:pre-wrap" class="">"It can’t go faster or slower than c in a vacuum, so it can’t accelerate in a linear direction, and in <u class="">normal</u> physics a photon doesn’t follow a curved path (except with gravity), which would make it possible to measure its centripetal acceleration c^2/R ." </span><br class=""></div><div style="margin-left:40px" class=""><span style="color:rgb(73,72,72);font-family:Georgia,serif;font-size:14px;line-height:22px;white-space:pre-wrap" class=""></span></div><span style="color:rgb(73,72,72);font-family:Georgia,serif;font-size:14px;line-height:22px;white-space:pre-wrap" class="">If you allow the mass needed to create gravity to be part of your 'vacuum', then you also need to allow the presence of a nucleus </span><span style="color:rgb(73,72,72);font-family:Georgia,serif;font-size:14px;line-height:22px;white-space:pre-wrap" class="">to be part of your 'vacuum'. This allows strong field gradients (E or H) to alter the local refractive index, just as</span><span style="color:rgb(73,72,72);font-family:Georgia,serif;font-size:14px;line-height:22px;white-space:pre-wrap" class=""> gravity alters the macroscopic index (defined as c/v). It is only a matter of scale. <br class=""><br class="">I have proposed this field-gradient-induced path curvature to be the source of photon-to-lepton conversion. If true, then it might be possible to make your measurement 'outside' of 'normal' physics.<br class=""><br class=""></span></div><span style="color:rgb(73,72,72);font-family:Georgia,serif;font-size:14px;line-height:22px;white-space:pre-wrap" class="">Andrew<br class=""></span><div class=""><div class=""><span style="color:rgb(73,72,72);font-family:Georgia,serif;font-size:14px;line-height:22px;white-space:pre-wrap" class="">________________________________________<br class=""></span><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><span style="color:rgb(73,72,72);font-family:Georgia,serif;font-size:14px;line-height:22px;white-space:pre-wrap" class=""></span><div class=""><div class=""><div class="gmail_extra"><br class=""><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Jan 25, 2016 at 1:12 AM, Richard Gauthier <span dir="ltr" class=""><<a href="mailto:richgauthier@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">richgauthier@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br class=""><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div style="word-wrap:break-word" class=""><div class="">Hello Vladimir and Chandra and all,</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""> Yes, I definitely support the idea of the ether as material space, and that all physical particles are derived from this ether. This ether can also be called a plenum or Cosmic Tension Field.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""> I don’t however think that it is necessary to explain the inertial mass of particles in relation to a "coefficient of inertia” or "the amount of momentum the ether resists." I have shown (<a href="https://www.academia.edu/19652036/The_Origin_of_the_Electrons_Inertia" target="_blank" class="">https://www.academia.edu/19652036/The_Origin_of_the_Electrons_Inertia</a> ) by a very simple derivation that the inertial mass m of an electron may be derived from the momentum of the circling photon in a circulating-photon model of the electron, whose circling photon has momentum mc where m = Eo/c^2 = hf/c^2 , where Eo is the rest energy 0.511 MeV of the electron and f is the frequency of the circulating photon in the resting electron. Secondly, in a similar way I derived a linearly moving photon's inertial mass to be M-inertial = hf/c^2 , where f is the photon’s frequency, even though a photon has zero rest mass. Thirdly, I derived the inertial mass of a relativistic electron, whose momentum is p=gamma mv, to be M-inertial = gamma m , even though the moving electron's rest mass is m. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""> I present these derivations below, taken from the <a href="http://academia.edu/" target="_blank" class="">academia.edu</a> session on my electron inertia article at <a href="https://www.academia.edu/s/a26afd55e0?source=link" target="_blank" class="">https://www.academia.edu/s/a26afd55e0?source=link</a> :</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><span style="color:rgb(73,72,72);font-family:Georgia,serif;font-size:14px;line-height:22px;white-space:pre-wrap" class="">"One reason people don’t think that a photon has any inertial mass (because it has no rest mass) is that how do you get a photon to change its momentum (i.e. accelerate) in order to measure its inertial mass. It can’t go faster or slower than c in a vacuum, so it can’t accelerate in a linear direction, and in normal physics a photon doesn’t follow a curved path (except with gravity), which would make it possible to measure its centripetal acceleration c^2/R . But as I showed in my short el</span><span style="color:rgb(73,72,72);font-family:Georgia,serif;font-size:14px;line-height:22px;white-space:pre-wrap" class="">ectron inertia article at <a href="https://www.academia.edu/19652036/The_Origin_of_the_Electrons_Inertia" target="_blank" class="">https://www.academia.edu/19652036/The_Origin_of_the_Electrons_Inertia</a> , the electron model in a resting electron has the photon going in a circle, with momentum mc and speed c, and the electron's inertial mass is then calculated to be M-inertial =(dp/dt)/Acentrifugal =wmc/(c^2/r)= m which is the inertial mass of the electron. But this calculation of the circling charged photon's inertial mass is independent of the radius of the charged photon’s circular orbit. Let that circular radius go towards infinity and you get a photon traveling in essentially a straight line, still having its inertial mass M =hf/c^2 (where the photon frequency f decreases as the radius of the circle increases) . So according to this logic, a linearly moving photon DOES have inertial mass M-inertial =hf/c^2 even though a photon has zero rest mass. And when a relativistic electron with momentum p=gamma mv travels in a circle with speed v, the inertial mass calculation above gives M-inertial = gamma m for a circling relativistic electron, and not just m the electron’s rest mass . Extending the radius here towards infinity also gives a linearly moving electron an inertial mass M = gamma m and not just the electron's rest mass m."</span></div><div class=""><span style="color:rgb(73,72,72);font-family:Georgia,serif;font-size:14px;line-height:22px;white-space:pre-wrap" class=""><br class=""></span></div><div class=""><span style="color:rgb(73,72,72);font-family:Georgia,serif;font-size:14px;line-height:22px;white-space:pre-wrap" class=""><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; line-height: normal; white-space: normal;" class=""> As far as I know these are all original derivations of the inertial mass of a resting electron, a photon and a relativistic electron based on a circulating photon model of an electron. I would be pleased to be shown otherwise.</span></span></div><div class=""><span style="color:rgb(73,72,72);font-family:Georgia,serif;font-size:14px;line-height:22px;white-space:pre-wrap" class=""><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; line-height: normal; white-space: normal;" class=""><br class=""></span></span></div><div class=""><span style="color:rgb(73,72,72);font-family:Georgia,serif;font-size:14px;line-height:22px;white-space:pre-wrap" class=""><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; line-height: normal; white-space: normal;" class=""> Richard</span></span></div><div class=""><span style="color:rgb(73,72,72);font-family:Georgia,serif;font-size:14px;line-height:22px;white-space:pre-wrap" class=""> </span></div><br class=""><div class=""><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class=""><div class="h5"><div class="">On Jan 24, 2016, at 6:42 AM, Roychoudhuri, Chandra <<a href="mailto:chandra.roychoudhuri@uconn.edu" target="_blank" class="">chandra.roychoudhuri@uconn.edu</a>> wrote:</div><br class=""></div></div><div class=""><div class=""><div class="h5"><div style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:12px;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;font-weight:normal;letter-spacing:normal;line-height:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px" class=""><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif" class=""><span style="font-size:11pt" class="">Yes, Vlad, that is also my viewpoint.<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif" class=""><span style="font-size:11pt" class="">I do not remember whether I have attached this paper while communicating with you earlier. I call the “plenum” Cosmic Tension Field (CTF), to be descriptive in its essential properties.<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif" class=""><span style="font-size:11pt" class="">Chandra.<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif" class=""><a name="152874316__MailEndCompose" class=""><span style="font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)" class=""> </span></a></div><div class=""><div style="border-style:solid none none;border-top:1pt solid rgb(181,196,223);padding:3pt 0in 0in" class=""><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif" class=""><b class=""><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif" class="">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10pt;font-family:Tahoma,sans-serif" class=""><span class=""> </span>General [<a href="mailto:general-bounces+chandra.roychoudhuri=uconn.edu@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank" class="">mailto:general-bounces+chandra.roychoudhuri=uconn.edu@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>]<span class=""> </span><b class="">On Behalf Of<span class=""> </span></b>Vladimir Tamari<br class=""><b class="">Sent:</b><span class=""> </span>Saturday, January 23, 2016 7:00 PM<br class=""><b class="">To:</b><span class=""> </span>Nature of Light and Particles - General Discussion<br class=""><b class="">Subject:</b><span class=""> </span>Re: [General] (no subject)<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></div></div></div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif" class=""><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></div><div class=""><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif" class="">Hi Richard <u class=""></u><u class=""></u></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif" class="">I barge into your discussion without knowing your views on a "plenum field" but if it is an ether I definitely think there is one. A "coefficent of inertia" might be defined as the amount of momentum the ether resists. In a charged or gravitational field this coefficent would increase...I think of this in terms of my Beautiful Universe ether of dielectric nodes, except this may give the wrong idea it is something matter wades in.. not so. Matter and ether are made if the selfsame nodes of energy!<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif" class="">Cheers<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif" class="">Vladimir<br class=""><br class="">_____________________<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></div><div class=""><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif" class=""><a href="http://vladimirtamari.com/" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank" class="">vladimirtamari.com</a><u class=""></u><u class=""></u></div></div></div><div class=""><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0in 0in 12pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif"><br class="">On Jan 21, 2016, at 7:41 AM, Richard Gauthier <<a href="mailto:richgauthier@gmail.com" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank" class="">richgauthier@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></p></div><blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt" class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif" class="">Hi Hodge,<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif" class=""> I don’t remember asking that. But if I did, I’m glad the question was helpful.<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif" class=""> I’m thinking about inertia these days. Do you or others have any insights about its nature?<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif" class=""> Richard<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></div></div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif" class=""><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></div><div class=""><blockquote style="margin-top:5pt;margin-bottom:5pt" class=""><div class=""><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif" class="">On Jan 20, 2016, at 1:43 PM, Hodge John <<a href="mailto:jchodge@frontier.com" style="color:purple;text-decoration:underline" target="_blank" class="">jchodge@frontier.com</a>> wrote:<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></div></div><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif" class=""><u class=""></u> <u class=""></u></div><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div class=""><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;background-color:white" class=""><span style="font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif" class="">Richard Gauthier:<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;background-color:white" class=""><span style="font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif" class="">You asked if the galaxy redshift, Pioneer anomaly, Pound--Rebka experiment model had a velocity term. I looked at redshift data for 1 galaxy and found no indication of a velocity term.<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;background-color:white" class=""><span style="font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif" class=""> <u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;background-color:white" class=""><span style="font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif" class="">I had not noticed this in the equations. Your suggestion that the plenum field can look like the Higgs field seems valid. That is, the acceleration of the plenum field looks like it adds energy (mass) is a Higgs Field characteristic. Thus, the plenum is closer to the idea of a quantum field and Higgs field (weak force).<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;background-color:white" class=""><span style="font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif" class=""> <u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;background-color:white" class=""><span style="font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif" class="">Thanks for the insight.<u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New Roman",serif;background-color:white" class=""><span style="font-family:Helvetica,sans-serif" class=""> <u class=""></u><u class=""></u></span></div></div><div class=""><div style="margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt;font-size:12pt;font-family:"Times New 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