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Hi Wolf!<br>
<br>
The famous equation E=mc^2 is in my understanding one of the
mystifications in physics created in the last century. Einstein did
it in a very drastic way: according to him E and m are two symbols
for the same physical phenomenon. Here I strictly disagree. Look to
the definitions of mass and energy, they are definitely different.
If one has a working model for elementary particles, this relation
results as a <i>relation </i>(nothing more) originating in the
internal structure of an elementary particle.<br>
<br>
You see a problem with the electron regarding the repelling force
and the centrifugal force in an electron. Since the 1930s well known
physicists have tried to explain the electron classically on the
basis of the electric force. Their model failed all. So the
conclusion was (written in text books) that the electron cannot be
understood but only mathematically treated by QM. <br>
<br>
In my model I have gone another way by assuming that the essential
force in any elementary particle is the strong force. The strong
force is composed in the particle by positive and negative
"charges". With this assumption the electron can be calculated (like
the other leptons and also quarks) with very precise results.
Particularly the centrifugal force is not a point as the internal
parts in an elementary particle are mass-less. And the electron
looks neutral from the outside regarding the strong force. <br>
<br>
Albrecht<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 25.01.2016 um 20:44 schrieb Wolfgang
Baer:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:56A67B01.8070703@nascentinc.com" type="cite">
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Does this not all start with the E=mc^2 energy mass equivalence
postulate?<br>
A moving photon has energy therefore mass , if the wave is
confined to a circular path the mass could be considered
stationary<br>
The equations can all be manipulated to come up with various
quantities and interpretations.<br>
<br>
What to me is problematic is the centrifugal forces. What balances
the tremendous outward pull?<br>
An electron only has charge that repels, and now centrifugal
forces, what holds it all together?<br>
<br>
Wolf<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">Dr. Wolfgang Baer
Research Director
Nascent Systems Inc.
tel/fax 831-659-3120/0432
E-mail <a moz-do-not-send="true" class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:wolf@NascentInc.com">wolf@NascentInc.com</a></pre>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 1/25/2016 8:33 AM, Albrecht Giese
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:56A64E73.6010208@a-giese.de" type="cite">
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Dear Richard,<br>
<br>
you know that I object to your derivation of inertial mass. You
deduce it from momentum. That is mathematically possible by
using the known relations. But it is not logical in so far as
momentum depends on inertia. In a world without inertia there
would be no momentum.<br>
<br>
So we have to explain first the mechanism of inertia itself,
then we can derive the momentum and the inertial mass.<br>
<br>
Best<br>
Albrecht<br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 24.01.2016 um 20:42 schrieb
Richard Gauthier:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:0907288F-7DBF-486D-B8E1-30751A151F73@gmail.com"
type="cite">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
charset=windows-1252">
<div class="">Hello Vladimir and Chandra and all,</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""> Yes, I definitely support the idea of the
ether as material space, and that all physical particles are
derived from this ether. This ether can also be called a
plenum or Cosmic Tension Field.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""> I don’t however think that it is necessary to
explain the inertial mass of particles in relation to a
"coefficient of inertia” or "the amount of momentum the
ether resists." I have shown (<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://www.academia.edu/19652036/The_Origin_of_the_Electrons_Inertia"
class="">https://www.academia.edu/19652036/The_Origin_of_the_Electrons_Inertia</a> )
by a very simple derivation that the inertial mass m of an
electron may be derived from the momentum of the circling
photon in a circulating-photon model of the electron, whose
circling photon has momentum mc where m = Eo/c^2 = hf/c^2 ,
where Eo is the rest energy 0.511 MeV of the electron and f
is the frequency of the circulating photon in the resting
electron. Secondly, in a similar way I derived a linearly
moving photon's inertial mass to be M-inertial = hf/c^2 ,
where f is the photon’s frequency, even though a photon has
zero rest mass. Thirdly, I derived the inertial mass of a
relativistic electron, whose momentum is p=gamma mv, to be
M-inertial = gamma m , even though the moving electron's
rest mass is m. </div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""> I present these derivations below, taken
from the <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://academia.edu" class="">academia.edu</a> session
on my electron inertia article at <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://www.academia.edu/s/a26afd55e0?source=link"
class="">https://www.academia.edu/s/a26afd55e0?source=link</a> :</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><span class="js-non-expanded-comment" style="box-sizing: border-box; color: rgb(73, 72, 72); font-family: Georgia, serif; font-size: 14px; line-height: 22px; white-space: pre-wrap;">"One reason people don’t think that a photon has any inertial mass (because it has no rest mass) is that how do you get a photon to change its momentum (i.e. accelerate) in order to measure its inertial mass. It can’t go faster or slower than c in a vacuum, so it can’t accelerate in a linear direction, and in normal physics a photon doesn’t follow a curved path (except with gravity), which would make it possible to measure its centripetal acceleration c^2/R . But as I showed in my short el</span><span class="js-expanded-comment" style="box-sizing: border-box; color: rgb(73, 72, 72); font-family: Georgia, serif; font-size: 14px; line-height: 22px; white-space: pre-wrap;">ectron inertia article at <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="https://www.academia.edu/19652036/The_Origin_of_%0A%2
0th%0A%2%0A0e_Elect%0A%0Arons_Inertia" class="">https://www.academia.edu/19652036/The_Origin_of_the_Electrons_Inertia</a> , the electron model in a resting electron has the photon going in a circle, with momentum mc and speed c, and the electron's inertial mass is then calculated to be M-inertial =(dp/dt)/Acentrifugal =wmc/(c^2/r)= m which is the inertial mass of the electron. But this calculation of the circling charged photon's inertial mass is independent of the radius of the charged photon’s circular orbit. Let that circular radius go towards infinity and you get a photon traveling in essentially a straight line, still having its inertial mass M =hf/c^2 (where the photon frequency f decreases as the radius of the circle increases) . So according to this logic, a linearly moving photon DOES have inertial mass M-inertial =hf/c^2 even though a photon has zero rest mass. And when a relativistic electron with momentum p=gamma mv travels in a circle with speed v, the inertial mass cal
cul
ation ab
ove
gives M
-in
ertial = gamma m for a circling relativistic electron, and not just m the electron’s rest mass . Extending the radius here towards infinity also gives a linearly moving electron an inertial mass M = gamma m and not just the electron's rest mass m."</span></div>
<div class=""><span class="js-expanded-comment" style="box-sizing: border-box; color: rgb(73, 72, 72); font-family: Georgia, serif; font-size: 14px; line-height: 22px; white-space: pre-wrap;">
</span></div>
<div class=""><span class="js-expanded-comment" style="box-sizing: border-box; color: rgb(73, 72, 72); font-family: Georgia, serif; font-size: 14px; line-height: 22px; white-space: pre-wrap;"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; line-height: normal; white-space: normal;" class=""> As far as I know these are all original derivations of the inertial mass of a resting electron, a photon and a relativistic electron based on a circulating photon model of an electron. I would be pleased to be shown otherwise.</span></span></div>
<div class=""><span class="js-expanded-comment" style="box-sizing: border-box; color: rgb(73, 72, 72); font-family: Georgia, serif; font-size: 14px; line-height: 22px; white-space: pre-wrap;"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; line-height: normal; white-space: normal;" class="">
</span></span></div>
<div class=""><span class="js-expanded-comment" style="box-sizing: border-box; color: rgb(73, 72, 72); font-family: Georgia, serif; font-size: 14px; line-height: 22px; white-space: pre-wrap;"><span style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; line-height: normal; white-space: normal;" class=""> Richard</span></span></div>
<div class=""><span class="js-expanded-comment" style="box-sizing: border-box; color: rgb(73, 72, 72); font-family: Georgia, serif; font-size: 14px; line-height: 22px; white-space: pre-wrap;"> </span></div>
<br class="">
<div>
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">On Jan 24, 2016, at 6:42 AM, Roychoudhuri,
Chandra <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:chandra.roychoudhuri@uconn.edu" class="">chandra.roychoudhuri@uconn.edu</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<div class="">
<div class="WordSection1" style="page: WordSection1;
font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style:
normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal;
letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal; orphans:
auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px;
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows:
auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width:
0px;">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span
style="font-size: 11pt;" class="">Yes, Vlad, that
is also my viewpoint.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span
style="font-size: 11pt;" class="">I do not
remember whether I have attached this paper while
communicating with you earlier. I call the
“plenum” Cosmic Tension Field (CTF), to be
descriptive in its essential properties.<o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><span
style="font-size: 11pt;" class="">Chandra.<o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><a
moz-do-not-send="true" name="_MailEndCompose"
class=""><span style="font-size: 11pt;
font-family: Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31,
73, 125);" class=""> </span></a></div>
<div class="">
<div style="border-style: solid none none;
border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, 223);
border-top-width: 1pt; padding: 3pt 0in 0in;"
class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"
class=""><b class=""><span style="font-size:
10pt; font-family: Tahoma, sans-serif;"
class="">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family: Tahoma,
sans-serif;" class=""><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>General
[<a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="mailto:general-bounces+chandra.roychoudhuri=uconn.edu@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org">mailto:general-bounces+chandra.roychoudhuri=uconn.edu@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>]<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b
class="">On Behalf Of<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Vladimir
Tamari<br class="">
<b class="">Sent:</b><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Saturday,
January 23, 2016 7:00 PM<br class="">
<b class="">To:</b><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Nature
of Light and Particles - General Discussion<br
class="">
<b class="">Subject:</b><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re:
[General] (no subject)<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p
class=""> </o:p></div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"
class="">Hi Richard <o:p class=""></o:p></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"
class="">I barge into your discussion without
knowing your views on a "plenum field" but if it
is an ether I definitely think there is one. A
"coefficent of inertia" might be defined as the
amount of momentum the ether resists. In a charged
or gravitational field this coefficent would
increase...I think of this in terms of my
Beautiful Universe ether of dielectric nodes,
except this may give the wrong idea it is
something matter wades in.. not so. Matter and
ether are made if the selfsame nodes of energy!<o:p
class=""></o:p></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"
class="">Cheers<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"
class="">Vladimir<br class="">
<br class="">
_____________________<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"
class=""><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://vladimirtamari.com/"
style="color: purple; text-decoration:
underline;" class="">vladimirtamari.com</a><o:p
class=""></o:p></div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in 0in 12pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman',
serif;"><br class="">
On Jan 21, 2016, at 7:41 AM, Richard Gauthier <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:richgauthier@gmail.com"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:richgauthier@gmail.com">richgauthier@gmail.com</a></a>>
wrote:<o:p class=""></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt; margin-bottom:
5pt;" class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"
class="">Hi Hodge,<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"
class=""> I don’t remember asking that. But
if I did, I’m glad the question was helpful.<o:p
class=""></o:p></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"
class=""> I’m thinking about inertia these
days. Do you or others have any insights about
its nature?<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"
class=""> Richard<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
</div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:
12pt; font-family: 'Times New Roman', serif;"
class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div>
<div class="">
<blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt;
margin-bottom: 5pt;" class="">
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New
Roman', serif;" class="">On Jan 20, 2016,
at 1:43 PM, Hodge John <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:jchodge@frontier.com"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:jchodge@frontier.com">jchodge@frontier.com</a></a>>
wrote:<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
</div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New
Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div
id="yui_3_16_0_1_1453325918779_2533"
class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times
New Roman', serif; background-color:
white;" class=""><span
style="font-family: Helvetica,
sans-serif;" class="">Richard
Gauthier:<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div
id="yui_3_16_0_1_1453325918779_2535"
class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times
New Roman', serif; background-color:
white;" class=""><span
style="font-family: Helvetica,
sans-serif;" class="">You asked if
the galaxy redshift, Pioneer
anomaly, Pound--Rebka experiment
model had a velocity term. I
looked at redshift data for 1
galaxy and found no indication of
a velocity term.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div
id="yui_3_16_0_1_1453325918779_2537"
class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times
New Roman', serif; background-color:
white;" class=""><span
style="font-family: Helvetica,
sans-serif;" class=""> <o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div
id="yui_3_16_0_1_1453325918779_2539"
class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times
New Roman', serif; background-color:
white;" class=""><span
style="font-family: Helvetica,
sans-serif;" class="">I had not
noticed this in the equations.
Your suggestion that the plenum
field can look like the Higgs
field seems valid. That is, the
acceleration of the plenum field
looks like it adds energy (mass)
is a Higgs Field characteristic.
Thus, the plenum is closer to the
idea of a quantum field and Higgs
field (weak force).<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div
id="yui_3_16_0_1_1453325918779_2541"
class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times
New Roman', serif; background-color:
white;" class=""><span
style="font-family: Helvetica,
sans-serif;" class=""> <o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div
id="yui_3_16_0_1_1453325918779_2543"
class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times
New Roman', serif; background-color:
white;" class=""><span
style="font-family: Helvetica,
sans-serif;" class="">Thanks for
the insight.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div
id="yui_3_16_0_1_1453325918779_2545"
class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times
New Roman', serif; background-color:
white;" class=""><span
style="font-family: Helvetica,
sans-serif;" class=""> <o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div
id="yui_3_16_0_1_1453325918779_2579"
class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times
New Roman', serif; background-color:
white;" class="">Hodge<span
style="font-family: Helvetica,
sans-serif;" class=""><o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
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