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Hi Chip,<br>
<br>
light has also inertia. If a photon is reflected from a mirror, it
applies a force to the mirror. That is inertia. And in this way it
also transfers momentum to it. <br>
<br>
Momentum is a specific application of inertia, nothing else. In
fact, inertial mass and momentum are the same physical phenomenon.
Why do the physicists use different names for this phenomenon? It
has a simple reason which is very common in physics. In history,
physical quantities have got importance to the humans in the moment
when there appears a conservation of that quantity at an
interaction. If we now look at inertia, then we observe
conservation. In some instances we observe conservation at an
application, which we call "momentum", and in some other
applications we observe conservation of "mass". This is the
background for these two different uses of the same physical
phenomenon.<br>
<br>
What is energy? That is also a notion which was invented because
conservation was observed. Nothing more fundamental, as I believe. <br>
<br>
Albrecht<br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 25.01.2016 um 22:13 schrieb Chip
Akins:<br>
</div>
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<p class="MsoNormal">Hi Albrecht<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">But light has momentum. Perhaps momentum
is fundamentally the cause of inertia, and therefore more
fundamental than inertia.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">We do not just see momentum from material
objects but also from energy propagating through space.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">So I think you may have it backwards.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal">Chip<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:windowtext">
General [<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org">mailto:general-bounces+chipakins=gmail.com@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Albrecht Giese<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, January 25, 2016 10:34 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org">general@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>;
Richard Gauthier <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:richgauthier@gmail.com"><richgauthier@gmail.com></a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [General] (no subject)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Dear Richard,<br>
<br>
you know that I object to your derivation of inertial mass.
You deduce it from momentum. That is mathematically possible
by using the known relations. But it is not logical in so far
as momentum depends on inertia. In a world without inertia
there would be no momentum.<br>
<br>
So we have to explain first the mechanism of inertia itself,
then we can derive the momentum and the inertial mass.<br>
<br>
Best<br>
Albrecht<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Am 24.01.2016 um 20:42 schrieb Richard
Gauthier:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Hello Vladimir and Chandra and all,<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> Yes, I definitely support the idea of
the ether as material space, and that all physical
particles are derived from this ether. This ether can also
be called a plenum or Cosmic Tension Field.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> I don’t however think that it is
necessary to explain the inertial mass of particles in
relation to a "coefficient of inertia” or "the amount of
momentum the ether resists." I have shown (<a
class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="https://www.academia.edu/19652036/The_Origin_of_the_Electrons_Inertia"><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.academia.edu/19652036/The_Origin_of_the_Electrons_Inertia">https://www.academia.edu/19652036/The_Origin_of_the_Electrons_Inertia</a></a> )
by a very simple derivation that the inertial mass m of an
electron may be derived from the momentum of the circling
photon in a circulating-photon model of the electron,
whose circling photon has momentum mc where m = Eo/c^2 =
hf/c^2 , where Eo is the rest energy 0.511 MeV of the
electron and f is the frequency of the circulating photon
in the resting electron. Secondly, in a similar way I
derived a linearly moving photon's inertial mass to be
M-inertial = hf/c^2 , where f is the photon’s frequency,
even though a photon has zero rest mass. Thirdly, I
derived the inertial mass of a relativistic electron,
whose momentum is p=gamma mv, to be M-inertial = gamma m
, even though the moving electron's rest mass is m. <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> I present these derivations below,
taken from the <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://academia.edu">academia.edu</a> session on
my electron inertia article at <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://www.academia.edu/s/a26afd55e0?source=link">https://www.academia.edu/s/a26afd55e0?source=link</a> :<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="js-non-expanded-comment"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:#494848">"One
reason people don’t think that a photon has any
inertial mass (because it has no rest mass) is that
how do you get a photon to change its momentum (i.e.
accelerate) in order to measure its inertial mass. It
can’t go faster or slower than c in a vacuum, so it
can’t accelerate in a linear direction, and in normal
physics a photon doesn’t follow a curved path (except
with gravity), which would make it possible to measure
its centripetal acceleration c^2/R . But as I showed
in my short el</span></span><span
class="js-expanded-comment"><span
style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Georgia",serif;color:#494848">ectron
inertia article at <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://www.academia.edu/19652036/The_Origin_of_th%20e_Elect%0Arons_Inertia">https://www.academia.edu/19652036/The_Origin_of_the_Electrons_Inertia</a>
, the electron model in a resting electron has the
photon going in a circle, with momentum mc and speed
c, and the electron's inertial mass is then calculated
to be M-inertial =(dp/dt)/Acentrifugal =wmc/(c^2/r)= m
which is the inertial mass of the electron. But this
calculation of the circling charged photon's inertial
mass is independent of the radius of the charged
photon’s circular orbit. Let that circular radius go
towards infinity and you get a photon traveling in
essentially a straight line, still having its inertial
mass M =hf/c^2 (where the photon frequency f decreases
as the radius of the circle increases) . So according
to this logic, a linearly moving photon DOES have
inertial mass M-inertial =hf/c^2 even though a photon
has zero rest mass. And when a relativistic electron
with momentum p=gamma mv travels in a circle with
speed v, the inertial mass calculation above gives M
-in ertial = gamma m for a circling relativistic
electron, and not just m the electron’s rest mass .
Extending the radius here towards infinity also gives
a linearly moving electron an inertial mass M = gamma
m and not just the electron's rest mass m."</span></span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="js-expanded-comment"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">
As far as I know these are all original derivations
of the inertial mass of a resting electron, a photon
and a relativistic electron based on a circulating
photon model of an electron. I would be pleased to be
shown otherwise.</span></span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span class="js-expanded-comment"><span
style="font-size:9.0pt;font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">
Richard</span></span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Jan 24, 2016, at 6:42 AM,
Roychoudhuri, Chandra <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:chandra.roychoudhuri@uconn.edu">chandra.roychoudhuri@uconn.edu</a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Yes,
Vlad, that is also my viewpoint.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">I
do not remember whether I have attached this paper
while communicating with you earlier. I call the
“plenum” Cosmic Tension Field (CTF), to be
descriptive in its essential properties.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Chandra.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a moz-do-not-send="true"
name="_MailEndCompose"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D"> </span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">From:</span></b><span
class="apple-converted-space"><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif"> </span></span><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma",sans-serif">General
[<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:general-bounces+chandra.roychoudhuri=uconn.edu@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org">mailto:general-bounces+chandra.roychoudhuri=uconn.edu@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>]<span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span><b>On
Behalf Of<span class="apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Vladimir
Tamari<br>
<b>Sent:</b><span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Saturday,
January 23, 2016 7:00 PM<br>
<b>To:</b><span class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Nature
of Light and Particles - General Discussion<br>
<b>Subject:</b><span
class="apple-converted-space"> </span>Re:
[General] (no subject)</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Hi Richard <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I barge into your discussion
without knowing your views on a "plenum field" but
if it is an ether I definitely think there is one.
A "coefficent of inertia" might be defined as the
amount of momentum the ether resists. In a charged
or gravitational field this coefficent would
increase...I think of this in terms of my
Beautiful Universe ether of dielectric nodes,
except this may give the wrong idea it is
something matter wades in.. not so. Matter and
ether are made if the selfsame nodes of energy!<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Cheers<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Vladimir<br>
<br>
_____________________<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://vladimirtamari.com/"><span
style="color:purple">vladimirtamari.com</span></a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
On Jan 21, 2016, at 7:41 AM, Richard Gauthier <<a
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:richgauthier@gmail.com"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:richgauthier@gmail.com">richgauthier@gmail.com</a></a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Hi Hodge,<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> I don’t remember asking
that. But if I did, I’m glad the question was
helpful.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> I’m thinking about
inertia these days. Do you or others have any
insights about its nature?<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> Richard<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<blockquote
style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">On Jan 20, 2016, at
1:43 PM, Hodge John <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:jchodge@frontier.com"><span
style="color:purple"></span></a><a
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:jchodge@frontier.com"><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:jchodge@frontier.com">jchodge@frontier.com</a></a>>
wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> <o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1453325918779_2533">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">Richard
Gauthier:</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1453325918779_2535">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">You
asked if the galaxy redshift,
Pioneer anomaly, Pound--Rebka
experiment model had a velocity
term. I looked at redshift data
for 1 galaxy and found no
indication of a velocity term.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1453325918779_2537">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1453325918779_2539">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">I
had not noticed this in the
equations. Your suggestion that
the plenum field can look like the
Higgs field seems valid. That is,
the acceleration of the plenum
field looks like it adds energy
(mass) is a Higgs Field
characteristic. Thus, the plenum
is closer to the idea of a quantum
field and Higgs field (weak
force).</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1453325918779_2541">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1453325918779_2543">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif">Thanks
for the insight.</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1453325918779_2545">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white"><span
style="font-family:"Helvetica",sans-serif"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<div id="yui_3_16_0_1_1453325918779_2579">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="background:white">Hodge<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
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