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Hello Richard,<br>
<br>
there is not necessarily a hierarchy between mass and momentum. But
the origin of all is the resistance against a change of the motion
state. That resistance is called inertia. And this resistance causes
momentum as well as mass. <br>
<br>
If you understand the momentum as on the top of the hierarchy, you
have to explain which mechanism causes momentum. There must be one.
What is it?<br>
<br>
My explanation of inertia is the only working one which I know. And
which of course is not a tautological explanation. The other
explanation followed by main stream is the Higgs model. That is
derived from QM, and that is something which I personally do not
like very much. But the strong argument against the Higgs model is
the fact that the necessary Higgs field does not exist as far as we
know. And again, I have never heard about another model of inertial
which is not tautological. <br>
<br>
My model for leptons and for quarks has to function as it does,
under the assumption that inertia has to be explained. And we may
not ask for Occam's Razor if there is no alternative. I do not see
any. <br>
<br>
My model explains the photon in a fundamentally similar way as a
lepton and a quark. But for the photon something has to be added to
explain its constant speed, i.e. the fact that it cannot be found at
rest. And the fact of twice the spin. This letter point seems to me
not too serious. <br>
<br>
The relativistic increase of the particle mass at motion (not only
the electron, but all) is easily and straight explained by the
model. Take the calculation of the inertial mass and adjust the
distance of the sub-particles for the relativistic contraction. Then
the straight result is the new mass increased by the factor gamma.
Your find it in my web site about "origin of mass". And the relation
energy to mass: E=mc^2 follows immediately from the same
calculation. Who else has ever deduced the famous formula of
Einstein? I do not know any else deduction which refers to a
physical mechanism. <br>
<br>
Strong force? In the 1940s calculations of the electron have been
made in Germany which were based on the assumption that there are
only electrical forces in the particle. The resulting mass turned
out to be too low by a factor of ca. 300. This is about the factor
by which the strong force is stronger than the electrical one. So
there is no surprise that with the assumption of the strong force
the results are correct. I think this is a good argument. Isn't it?<br>
<br>
Albrecht<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 26.01.2016 um 01:50 schrieb Richard
Gauthier:<br>
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:7DEA6DFD-C1EB-4058-99AF-D71BF4807606@gmail.com"
type="cite">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
charset=windows-1252">
Hello Albrecht,
<div class=""><br class="">
<div class=""> I know that you object to my derivation, but I
am proposing that momentum is primary and inertia is
secondary. You have got it backwards. The inertial mass of an
electron is (in my approach) quantitatively due to the
circulating internal momentum of its charged (or uncharged)
photon. By extension, the inertial mass of all particles with
rest mass is likely due to internally circulating momenta. It
is true as you say that in a world without inertia (or
inertial mass) there would be no momentum, but in a world
without momentum there would also be no inertia (or inertial
mass). Inertia (or inertial mass) is due to momentum (in my
approach). Momentum is not due to inertia. </div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""> I know that your electron hypothesis attempts to
derive the inertia of an electron differently. But I think you
will have to admit that my derivation of the electron’s
inertial mass from the electron’s proposed circulating
internal photon momentum is very much simpler than yours
(which is by the way based on highly questionable premises
since there is no accepted experimental evidence for the
strong nuclear force influencing electric charges, zero
experimental evidence for two sub-particles in an electron,
and your electron model’s apparently negative rest mass due to
its negative internal potential energy), and thus by Occam's
Razor, much to be preferred. Plus, your model doesn’t derive
the inertial mass of a photon as hf/c^2 or the inertial mass
of a relativistically moving electron as gamma m, does it?</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""> Richard</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
<div>
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">On Jan 25, 2016, at 8:33 AM, Albrecht Giese
<<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:genmail@a-giese.de" class="">genmail@a-giese.de</a>>
wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<div class="">
<meta content="text/html; charset=windows-1252"
http-equiv="Content-Type" class="">
<div text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF" class=""> Dear
Richard,<br class="">
<br class="">
you know that I object to your derivation of inertial
mass. You deduce it from momentum. That is
mathematically possible by using the known relations.
But it is not logical in so far as momentum depends on
inertia. In a world without inertia there would be no
momentum.<br class="">
<br class="">
So we have to explain first the mechanism of inertia
itself, then we can derive the momentum and the
inertial mass.<br class="">
<br class="">
Best<br class="">
Albrecht<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">Am 24.01.2016 um 20:42
schrieb Richard Gauthier:<br class="">
</div>
<blockquote
cite="mid:0907288F-7DBF-486D-B8E1-30751A151F73@gmail.com"
type="cite" class="">
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;
charset=windows-1252" class="">
<div class="">Hello Vladimir and Chandra and all,</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""> Yes, I definitely support the idea
of the ether as material space, and that all
physical particles are derived from this ether.
This ether can also be called a plenum or Cosmic
Tension Field.</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""> I don’t however think that it is
necessary to explain the inertial mass of
particles in relation to a "coefficient of
inertia” or "the amount of momentum the ether
resists." I have shown (<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://www.academia.edu/19652036/The_Origin_of_the_Electrons_Inertia"
class="">https://www.academia.edu/19652036/The_Origin_of_the_Electrons_Inertia</a> )
by a very simple derivation that the inertial mass
m of an electron may be derived from the momentum
of the circling photon in a circulating-photon
model of the electron, whose circling photon has
momentum mc where m = Eo/c^2 = hf/c^2 , where Eo
is the rest energy 0.511 MeV of the electron and f
is the frequency of the circulating photon in the
resting electron. Secondly, in a similar way I
derived a linearly moving photon's inertial mass
to be M-inertial = hf/c^2 , where f is the
photon’s frequency, even though a photon has zero
rest mass. Thirdly, I derived the inertial mass of
a relativistic electron, whose momentum is p=gamma
mv, to be M-inertial = gamma m , even though the
moving electron's rest mass is m. </div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""> I present these derivations below,
taken from the <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://academia.edu/" class="">academia.edu</a> session
on my electron inertia article at <a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="https://www.academia.edu/s/a26afd55e0?source=link"
class=""><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.academia.edu/s/a26afd55e0?source=link">https://www.academia.edu/s/a26afd55e0?source=link</a></a> :</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class=""><span class="js-non-expanded-comment" style="box-sizing: border-box; color: rgb(73, 72, 72); font-family: Georgia, serif; font-size: 14px; line-height: 22px; white-space: pre-wrap;">"One reason people don’t think that a photon has any inertial mass (because it has no rest mass) is that how do you get a photon to change its momentum (i.e. accelerate) in order to measure its inertial mass. It can’t go faster or slower than c in a vacuum, so it can’t accelerate in a linear direction, and in normal physics a photon doesn’t follow a curved path (except with gravity), which would make it possible to measure its centripetal acceleration c^2/R . But as I showed in my short el</span><span class="js-expanded-comment" style="box-sizing: border-box; color: rgb(73, 72, 72); font-family: Georgia, serif; font-size: 14px; line-height: 22px; white-space: pre-wrap;">ectron inertia article at <a moz-do-not-send="true" href="https://www.academia.edu/19652036/The_Origi
n_of_the_Elect%0Arons_Inertia" class="">https://www.academia.edu/19652036/The_Origin_of_the_Electrons_Inertia</a> , the electron model in a resting electron has the photon going in a circle, with momentum mc and speed c, and the electron's inertial mass is then calculated to be M-inertial =(dp/dt)/Acentrifugal =wmc/(c^2/r)= m which is the inertial mass of the electron. But this calculation of the circling charged photon's inertial mass is independent of the radius of the charged photon’s circular orbit. Let that circular radius go towards infinity and you get a photon traveling in essentially a straight line, still having its inertial mass M =hf/c^2 (where the photon frequency f decreases as the radius of the circle increases) . So according to this logic, a linearly moving photon DOES have inertial mass M-inertial =hf/c^2 even though a photon has zero rest mass. And when a relativistic electron with momentum p=gamma mv travels in a circle with speed v, the inertial mass calculation
above gives M
-in
ertial = gamma m for a circling relativistic electron, and not just m the electron’s rest mass . Extending the radius here towards infinity also gives a linearly moving electron an inertial mass M = gamma m and not just the electron's rest mass m."</span></div>
<div class=""><span class="js-expanded-comment" style="box-sizing: border-box; color: rgb(73, 72, 72); font-family: Georgia, serif; font-size: 14px; line-height: 22px; white-space: pre-wrap;">
</span></div>
<div class=""><span class="js-expanded-comment" style="box-sizing: border-box; color: rgb(73, 72, 72); font-family: Georgia, serif; font-size: 14px; line-height: 22px; white-space: pre-wrap;"><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; line-height: normal; white-space: normal;" class=""> As far as I know these are all original derivations of the inertial mass of a resting electron, a photon and a relativistic electron based on a circulating photon model of an electron. I would be pleased to be shown otherwise.</span></span></div>
<div class=""><span class="js-expanded-comment" style="box-sizing: border-box; color: rgb(73, 72, 72); font-family: Georgia, serif; font-size: 14px; line-height: 22px; white-space: pre-wrap;"><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; line-height: normal; white-space: normal;" class="">
</span></span></div>
<div class=""><span class="js-expanded-comment" style="box-sizing: border-box; color: rgb(73, 72, 72); font-family: Georgia, serif; font-size: 14px; line-height: 22px; white-space: pre-wrap;"><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; line-height: normal; white-space: normal;" class=""> Richard</span></span></div>
<div class=""><span class="js-expanded-comment" style="box-sizing: border-box; color: rgb(73, 72, 72); font-family: Georgia, serif; font-size: 14px; line-height: 22px; white-space: pre-wrap;"> </span></div>
<br class="">
<div class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">On Jan 24, 2016, at 6:42 AM,
Roychoudhuri, Chandra <<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:chandra.roychoudhuri@uconn.edu"
class=""><a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:chandra.roychoudhuri@uconn.edu">chandra.roychoudhuri@uconn.edu</a></a>>
wrote:</div>
<br class="Apple-interchange-newline">
<div class="">
<div class="WordSection1" style="page:
WordSection1; font-family: Helvetica;
font-size: 12px; font-style: normal;
font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal;
letter-spacing: normal; line-height: normal;
orphans: auto; text-align: start;
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none;
white-space: normal; widows: auto;
word-spacing: 0px;
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New
Roman', serif;" class=""><span
style="font-size: 11pt;" class="">Yes,
Vlad, that is also my viewpoint.<o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New
Roman', serif;" class=""><span
style="font-size: 11pt;" class="">I do
not remember whether I have attached
this paper while communicating with you
earlier. I call the “plenum” Cosmic
Tension Field (CTF), to be descriptive
in its essential properties.<o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New
Roman', serif;" class=""><span
style="font-size: 11pt;" class="">Chandra.<o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New
Roman', serif;" class=""><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
name="_MailEndCompose" class=""><span
style="font-size: 11pt; font-family:
Calibri, sans-serif; color: rgb(31,
73, 125);" class=""> </span></a></div>
<div class="">
<div style="border-style: solid none none;
border-top-color: rgb(181, 196, 223);
border-top-width: 1pt; padding: 3pt 0in
0in;" class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times
New Roman', serif;" class=""><b
class=""><span style="font-size:
10pt; font-family: Tahoma,
sans-serif;" class="">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size: 10pt; font-family:
Tahoma, sans-serif;" class=""><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>General
[<a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="mailto:general-bounces+chandra.roychoudhuri=uconn.edu@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org">mailto:general-bounces+chandra.roychoudhuri=uconn.edu@lists.natureoflightandparticles.org</a>]<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><b
class="">On Behalf Of<span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></b>Vladimir
Tamari<br class="">
<b class="">Sent:</b><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Saturday,
January 23, 2016 7:00 PM<br class="">
<b class="">To:</b><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Nature
of Light and Particles - General
Discussion<br class="">
<b class="">Subject:</b><span
class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Re:
[General] (no subject)<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New
Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New
Roman', serif;" class="">Hi Richard <o:p
class=""></o:p></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New
Roman', serif;" class="">I barge into
your discussion without knowing your
views on a "plenum field" but if it is
an ether I definitely think there is
one. A "coefficent of inertia" might be
defined as the amount of momentum the
ether resists. In a charged or
gravitational field this coefficent
would increase...I think of this in
terms of my Beautiful Universe ether of
dielectric nodes, except this may give
the wrong idea it is something matter
wades in.. not so. Matter and ether are
made if the selfsame nodes of energy!<o:p
class=""></o:p></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New
Roman', serif;" class="">Cheers<o:p
class=""></o:p></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times New
Roman', serif;" class="">Vladimir<br
class="">
<br class="">
_____________________<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times
New Roman', serif;" class=""><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://vladimirtamari.com/"
style="color: purple;
text-decoration: underline;"
class="">vladimirtamari.com</a><o:p
class=""></o:p></div>
</div>
</div>
<div class="">
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin: 0in
0in 12pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family:
'Times New Roman', serif;"><br class="">
On Jan 21, 2016, at 7:41 AM, Richard
Gauthier <<a moz-do-not-send="true"
class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated"
href="mailto:richgauthier@gmail.com">richgauthier@gmail.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p class=""></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt;
margin-bottom: 5pt;" class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times
New Roman', serif;" class="">Hi
Hodge,<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times
New Roman', serif;" class=""> I
don’t remember asking that. But if I
did, I’m glad the question was
helpful.<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times
New Roman', serif;" class=""> I’m
thinking about inertia these days.
Do you or others have any insights
about its nature?<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
</div>
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times
New Roman', serif;" class="">
Richard<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
</div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt;
font-size: 12pt; font-family: 'Times
New Roman', serif;" class=""><o:p
class=""> </o:p></div>
<div class="">
<blockquote style="margin-top: 5pt;
margin-bottom: 5pt;" class="">
<div class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times New Roman',
serif;" class="">On Jan 20,
2016, at 1:43 PM, Hodge John
<<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:jchodge@frontier.com"
style="color: purple;
text-decoration: underline;"
class="">jchodge@frontier.com</a>>
wrote:<o:p class=""></o:p></div>
</div>
<div style="margin: 0in 0in
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times New Roman',
serif;" class=""><o:p class=""> </o:p></div>
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div class="">
<div
id="yui_3_16_0_1_1453325918779_2533"
class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times New
Roman', serif;
background-color: white;"
class=""><span
style="font-family:
Helvetica, sans-serif;"
class="">Richard
Gauthier:<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div
id="yui_3_16_0_1_1453325918779_2535"
class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times New
Roman', serif;
background-color: white;"
class=""><span
style="font-family:
Helvetica, sans-serif;"
class="">You asked if
the galaxy redshift,
Pioneer anomaly,
Pound--Rebka experiment
model had a velocity
term. I looked at
redshift data for 1
galaxy and found no
indication of a velocity
term.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div
id="yui_3_16_0_1_1453325918779_2537"
class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times New
Roman', serif;
background-color: white;"
class=""><span
style="font-family:
Helvetica, sans-serif;"
class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div
id="yui_3_16_0_1_1453325918779_2539"
class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times New
Roman', serif;
background-color: white;"
class=""><span
style="font-family:
Helvetica, sans-serif;"
class="">I had not
noticed this in the
equations. Your
suggestion that the
plenum field can look
like the Higgs field
seems valid. That is,
the acceleration of the
plenum field looks like
it adds energy (mass) is
a Higgs Field
characteristic. Thus,
the plenum is closer to
the idea of a quantum
field and Higgs field
(weak force).<o:p
class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div
id="yui_3_16_0_1_1453325918779_2541"
class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times New
Roman', serif;
background-color: white;"
class=""><span
style="font-family:
Helvetica, sans-serif;"
class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div
id="yui_3_16_0_1_1453325918779_2543"
class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times New
Roman', serif;
background-color: white;"
class=""><span
style="font-family:
Helvetica, sans-serif;"
class="">Thanks for the
insight.<o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div
id="yui_3_16_0_1_1453325918779_2545"
class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times New
Roman', serif;
background-color: white;"
class=""><span
style="font-family:
Helvetica, sans-serif;"
class=""> <o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
<div
id="yui_3_16_0_1_1453325918779_2579"
class="">
<div style="margin: 0in 0in
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt;
font-family: 'Times New
Roman', serif;
background-color: white;"
class="">Hodge<span
style="font-family:
Helvetica, sans-serif;"
class=""><o:p class=""></o:p></span></div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
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